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Local Elections
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So who will be voting and who for I will be voting for my local independent party. I wonder whether the conservatives and labour parties will take a nose dive x |
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I'm unsure yet as I've not spoken with and fully reviewed them. Local politics is tough here due to massive and severe Conservative party cutbacks to local funding and services. It does mean that appropriate priorities and plans are essential, for the local area to retain and improve its wellbeing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If I lived down there bob I’d vote green aswell ya lucky git"
I am a lucky man but so are you foxy .I might live in an area of outstanding beauty but that ass in your profile is outstanding and beautiful ...  |
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"If I lived down there bob I’d vote green aswell ya lucky git
I am a lucky man but so are you foxy .I might live in an area of outstanding beauty but that ass in your profile is outstanding and beautiful ... "
haha bobbb I like to think she’s the lucky one lol |
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Hate to do it, but anyone as long as its not our current Labour lot. They have shown themselves over yhe last decade or so to be not only inept but also corrupt. I certainly wont vote Tory, so hopefully there will be a Green candidate to vote for. Though they have ALL been very quiet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Local elections for local people!
Get thee back to Royston Vasey....the one and only truly English town....where everyone is local!
Personally I’m thinking of voting Lib Dem but only because I like my local councillor - he genuinely cares and tries his best to help everyone in need although he is retiring and they are replacing him with a very fresh faced puppy so I may change my mind!
Also, the lib dem mp we had previously was worse than a chocolate teapot (I think he even made Private Eye as one of the most ineffectual MPs of all time) so voting Lib Dem is not my ideal choice.
I would never vote for anyone right of centre which lets face it, with the way thongs are, leaves very little to choose from!
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"Local elections for local people!
Get thee back to Royston Vasey....the one and only truly English town....where everyone is local!
Personally I’m thinking of voting Lib Dem but only because I like my local councillor - he genuinely cares and tries his best to help everyone in need although he is retiring and they are replacing him with a very fresh faced puppy so I may change my mind!
Also, the lib dem mp we had previously was worse than a chocolate teapot (I think he even made Private Eye as one of the most ineffectual MPs of all time) so voting Lib Dem is not my ideal choice.
I would never vote for anyone right of centre which lets face it, with the way thongs are, leaves very little to choose from!
"
.
Surely you can't be taking about Stephen Williams he did loads for the lib Dems party and I can't remember any other lib dem MP for Bristol in 25 years?.
When I lived there he was well regarded  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Local elections for local people!
Get thee back to Royston Vasey....the one and only truly English town....where everyone is local!
Personally I’m thinking of voting Lib Dem but only because I like my local councillor - he genuinely cares and tries his best to help everyone in need although he is retiring and they are replacing him with a very fresh faced puppy so I may change my mind!
Also, the lib dem mp we had previously was worse than a chocolate teapot (I think he even made Private Eye as one of the most ineffectual MPs of all time) so voting Lib Dem is not my ideal choice.
I would never vote for anyone right of centre which lets face it, with the way thongs are, leaves very little to choose from!
.
Surely you can't be taking about Stephen Williams he did loads for the lib Dems party and I can't remember any other lib dem MP for Bristol in 25 years?.
When I lived there he was well regarded "
When he went to westminster he was an eager young thing and when he came back he was broken. I last saw him at a garden party where he was drinking copiously and struggling to mix. I felt quite sorry for him on a personal level but as he really didnt do anything of merit in his time in parliament and lost his seat my sympathies were limited.
I have much more time for my MP thanggam who works hard and makes her presence known in parliament.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'll be voting.
Where I live the choice is
UKIP (Crazy Leave)
Conservative (Bad Leave)
Labour (Unrealistic Leave)
LibDem (Remain)
I'll be voting LibDem."
what if libdem change policy after getting into office? Student tuition fees an' all that.
if they stick to form we'll leave the eu with no/shit deal |
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"I'll be voting.
Where I live the choice is
UKIP (Crazy Leave)
Conservative (Bad Leave)
Labour (Unrealistic Leave)
LibDem (Remain)
I'll be voting LibDem.
what if libdem change policy after getting into office? Student tuition fees an' all that.
if they stick to form we'll leave the eu with no/shit deal"
But we look back on the Coalition Government as a period of relative sanity now - the positive influence of the Lib Dems, it might have cost them since but they cancelled out a lot of the loony Tory’s!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would BREXIT matter in your local elections?"
To be honest, why would Brexit matter for the European Members of Parliament elections.
It doesn't, neither do, it's at UK national level Government where Brexits at, not local, not European Parliament, only UK Government. |
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"Labour - Bring back tony blair to start a new political party, the independent labour party  "
A vote for Labour is a vote for Leave. It maybe excusable in the local elections but, if you really want to Remain in the EU Labour needs to be sent a message that their normal voters want to Remain. A strong Remain message at these local elections could force Labour to solidly support another referendum and, if they did that, I would vote for them in the following Euro Elections as the best way to stop Farage and BREXIT once and for all. With Labour's current BREXIT and referendum policy a vote for them, with regards to Europe, is the same as a vote for Farage and BREXIT.
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"I'll be voting.
Where I live the choice is
UKIP (Crazy Leave)
Conservative (Bad Leave)
Labour (Unrealistic Leave)
LibDem (Remain)
I'll be voting LibDem.
what if libdem change policy after getting into office? Student tuition fees an' all that.
if they stick to form we'll leave the eu with no/shit deal
But we look back on the Coalition Government as a period of relative sanity now - the positive influence of the Lib Dems, it might have cost them since but they cancelled out a lot of the loony Tory’s! "
And, if you've had kids going through the previous student loan system and the current student loan system, you'd know that the current system is better and cheaper for both the students and their parents and will be a lot cheaper in the students future when they come to pay it back. |
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"Labour - Bring back tony blair to start a new political party, the independent labour party
A vote for Labour is a vote for Leave. It maybe excusable in the local elections but, if you really want to Remain in the EU Labour needs to be sent a message that their normal voters want to Remain. A strong Remain message at these local elections could force Labour to solidly support another referendum and, if they did that, I would vote for them in the following Euro Elections as the best way to stop Farage and BREXIT once and for all. With Labour's current BREXIT and referendum policy a vote for them, with regards to Europe, is the same as a vote for Farage and BREXIT.
"
Sadly, I agree - Labour are messing up, nowhere near as badly as the Tory’s, but a good 2nd! Choose a Remain Party in the Local’s and then in the EU’s if Labour haven’t worked out where they need to be by then!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Looks like the tories are in for an ok night, its not going to be as bad as anyone predicts.
The right wings fear of comrade corbyn will make sure of that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Labour or Tory here and ewe have a hung council but Labour is split with hard left and normal labour.Sadly my representative is hard left so no choice tory"
Something different perhaps? Green might be better than voting tory if you can bring yourself to do it. The present government really do need a wake up call and I suspect a drubbing in the local elections is the quickest way to achieve that. |
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Went to vote and, although both LibDems and UKIP are standing for the council in the area neither are standing in my ward.
The choice was:-
Conservative (Bad Leave)
Labour (Unrealistic Leave)
Green (Remain)
I voted Green.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Parliament has just yesterday declared a "climate emergency" so there is no better time to vote green.One councillor can make a world of difference.
I'm on my way to vote green . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We have a climate emergency this weekend!
into May now and the temperature will struggle to get into double figures.... i'll need to supply warm blankets to my guests at my BBQ.... AND i shall have to crank up my 4 patio heaters up to 11.... nothing like heating the outdoors to wind up the green saviours |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
well i had a choice between the conservatives, labour, UKIP and Lib Dems....
I swore to myself after the student loans fiasco i would never vote lib dem again.... but i just couldn't pull the trigger on a corbyn lead labour with his brexit views....
so thru gritted teeth i went back to the lib dems.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have a climate emergency this weekend!
into May now and the temperature will struggle to get into double figures.... i'll need to supply warm blankets to my guests at my BBQ.... AND i shall have to crank up my 4 patio heaters up to 11.... nothing like heating the outdoors to wind up the green saviours "
Poor quality humaning. The planet is probably better off without us. |
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"well i had a choice between the conservatives, labour, UKIP and Lib Dems....
I swore to myself after the student loans fiasco i would never vote lib dem again.... but i just couldn't pull the trigger on a corbyn lead labour with his brexit views....
so thru gritted teeth i went back to the lib dems...."
I would have much more preferred to vote LibDem than Green but I held my nose and voted Green. When the total percentage votes are worked out my Green instead of LibDem will go with your LibDem instead of Green and increase the anti-BREXIT vote.
I'm hoping I'm correct in assuming that you would have preferred to vote Green rather than LibDem. If not then just ignore my mad ramblings.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"well i had a choice between the conservatives, labour, UKIP and Lib Dems....
I swore to myself after the student loans fiasco i would never vote lib dem again.... but i just couldn't pull the trigger on a corbyn lead labour with his brexit views....
so thru gritted teeth i went back to the lib dems....
I would have much more preferred to vote LibDem than Green but I held my nose and voted Green. When the total percentage votes are worked out my Green instead of LibDem will go with your LibDem instead of Green and increase the anti-BREXIT vote.
I'm hoping I'm correct in assuming that you would have preferred to vote Green rather than LibDem. If not then just ignore my mad ramblings.
"
if there had been "change uk" candidates at this stage thats where i would likely have gone.... but since there wasn't my intention was originally to vote green, and when i saw the lists and saw there was no green candidate thats when i decided to vote lib dem in these...
but at the moment my intention in the european elections is to vote "change uk (TIG)" |
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"For us it will be the Lib Dems, but that is tactical voting for you  "
For me it was tactical voting Green. In the Euro it will be either LibDem or ChangeUK. As a right of centre liberal I think my heart maybe closer to where ChangeUk may end up but I'm already a little annoyed with them for not forming some sort of electrical pact with the LibDems for the Euro Elections at least.
I think I'm going to see which way the poles seem to be going and then vote for which ever of those two seems likely to get the 7th seat.
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"Labour - Bring back tony blair to start a new political party, the independent labour party "
you've got to be kidding. This is the guy who took us into a war we didn't want nor need. He has a lot to answer for. His aim always has been to be president of the EU. |
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What a fickle lot we are, the lib dems were dog shit of late and now a safe place to protest vote it seems..
Is it because some or a lot of people think they're a bit fluffy and won't do too much harm perhaps? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Listening to a bloke on radio 2 saying how he spoilt his ballot paper by writing no in all of he boxes
What a pointless waste of time  do they really think anyone cares about a spoilt paper?
It will be tossed into the bin along with all of the others, total waste of a journey to the polling station.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Listening to a bloke on radio 2 saying how he spoilt his ballot paper by writing no in all of he boxes
What a pointless waste of time do they really think anyone cares about a spoilt paper?
It will be tossed into the bin along with all of the others, total waste of a journey to the polling station.
"
I disagree. It shows a willingness to vote. But a dissatisfaction with the options. If 100% of people voted but 50% of papers were spoiled parties would pay attention. If turnout was 50% parties would call it apathy and concentrate on winning those who did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Is it better to not vote than to spoil your ballot paper? What IF there were absolutely no candidates that you liked in the election but wished to exercise your right to vote....but for none of the above? Personally i would like to see a 'none of the above' option on every ballot paper |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is it better to not vote than to spoil your ballot paper? What IF there were absolutely no candidates that you liked in the election but wished to exercise your right to vote....but for none of the above? Personally i would like to see a 'none of the above' option on every ballot paper"
That's exactly what spoiling your ballot paper is saying, none of the above.
I saw a picture on a news feed from some social media where they had scrubbed NO NO TRAITOR TRAITOR in the available boxes then scrawled a box with a X in it and put BREXIT PARTY - FARAGE next to that scribbled box lol
Now that's political dedication, wanting to vote a political party in the local elections that haven't fielded any candidates or said what they would do for that local area what so ever lol
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
No London votes.
However the Daily Mash view is;
THE two main parties have lost hundreds of seats due to a backlash against Brexit, austerity, May, Corbyn, Parliament, the economy and everything fucking else.
The council elections across England have been used by voters as a chance to voice their opposition to everything Labour and the Conservatives have done since the last time they got to call them twats via the ballot box.
Martin Bishop of Southend said: “I’m fucked off about Brexit, obviously. But I’m also fucked off about academies, NHS cuts, police numbers, the trains, the BBC and both leaders being thoroughgoing knobheads.
“It’s a shame the Lib Dems have benefited, because they’re wankers as well, but I’m hoping that both parties take this as a message not just to get on with Brexit but to get on with fucking off for good.
“When I cast my vote I wanted May to resign, Corbyn to resign, some new people who I don’t hate to take over and everything they’ve broken fixed. I hope that was clear.”
A Conservative spokesman said: “This is the problem with democratic votes. They risk us being unable to implement crap policies that only a small minority of dickheads like.” |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"What a fickle lot we are, the lib dems were dog shit of late and now a safe place to protest vote it seems..
Is it because some or a lot of people think they're a bit fluffy and won't do too much harm perhaps? "
For fifty years and more, the centre ground is where parties win.
Work out where the centre ground is and pitch your policies there.
We swing a little to the right when we want economic fixes, and a little to the left when we want social fixes.
No party ever wins from the extremes.
I think what we are seeing is the "shy Conservative" voter perceive the Tories moving too far right and looking for that softer centre to place their vote.
Farage promises to wreck the Conservative Party. That is the silver lining for me in this debacle. |
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"This backlash will be nothing compared to the next election.The next parliament will without doubt be a hung parliament.
how do you think labour will do in next elections bob ?"
On these results Labour are looking to do very badly in a future General Election.
The head line figures look bad for Labour and very bad for the Conservative. However we have to remember that the last time most of these seats were fought was at the General Election in 2015 when the Conservatives did better than expected and Labour did worse than expected. Labour entered this race from a very low base and went backwards. That's not what should be expected from a party looking to win the next General Election.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't tell how to read these. The hype was around Brexit. So on the face of it positive remain indications. Albeit on low turnout
Or was it a protest vote of wider distain at the big two. Because outside of Brexit theyre still pretty shoddy.
But why didn't ukip do well under either scenario. Especially if people spoiled their paper by writing Brexit party.
And why are many reading this as a sign to sort Brexit out. I can't see the logic on that one. |
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Torie numbers go from 32 to 16 in the borough with the torie leader kicked out (no more Quinn estates brown envelopes for him), gains spread between Labour Libs and Greens so as much as it's spun as a brexit protest the local issues do seem to have bitten. |
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"I can't tell how to read these. The hype was around Brexit. So on the face of it positive remain indications. Albeit on low turnout
Or was it a protest vote of wider distain at the big two. Because outside of Brexit theyre still pretty shoddy.
But why didn't ukip do well under either scenario. Especially if people spoiled their paper by writing Brexit party.
And why are many reading this as a sign to sort Brexit out. I can't see the logic on that one. "
Ukip are not the same party that they were before. The polls had them way down because with tommy robinson etc they are now just the "acceptable" face of the BNP etc. They are no longer what leave voters voted for, hence the hemorrhaging of council seats. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't tell how to read these. The hype was around Brexit. So on the face of it positive remain indications. Albeit on low turnout
Or was it a protest vote of wider distain at the big two. Because outside of Brexit theyre still pretty shoddy.
But why didn't ukip do well under either scenario. Especially if people spoiled their paper by writing Brexit party.
And why are many reading this as a sign to sort Brexit out. I can't see the logic on that one.
Ukip are not the same party that they were before. The polls had them way down because with tommy robinson etc they are now just the "acceptable" face of the BNP etc. They are no longer what leave voters voted for, hence the hemorrhaging of council seats. "
True, and local issues will have also played into the local elections. The upcoming European elections on 23rd May with the Brexit party and Change UK standing will give a clearer intention of the public's mood on Brexit as those elections will be solely based on the European issue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This backlash will be nothing compared to the next election.The next parliament will without doubt be a hung parliament.
how do you think labour will do in next elections bob ?"
Can't remember if it was Sky news or BBC news now but i saw a general election forecast based on last nights local election results. They had the Conservatives on around 280 seats and Labour on around 250 seats for a general election, so it would be another hung Parliament. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This backlash will be nothing compared to the next election.The next parliament will without doubt be a hung parliament.
how do you think labour will do in next elections bob ?"
Labour will be in a coalition government after the next GE.
SNP/labour coalition looks likely and maybe lthe lib dems and greens will join them .Its looking like the Conservatives will take the biggest kicking for their handling of brexit .Rightly so .They started the ball rolling then they dropped the ball now they can't stop the ball crushing all before it.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"This backlash will be nothing compared to the next election.The next parliament will without doubt be a hung parliament.
how do you think labour will do in next elections bob ?
Labour will be in a coalition government after the next GE.
SNP/labour coalition looks likely and maybe lthe lib dems and greens will join them .Its looking like the Conservatives will take the biggest kicking for their handling of brexit .Rightly so .They started the ball rolling then they dropped the ball now they can't stop the ball crushing all before it.
"
after the kicking the lib dems took for being part of a formal coalition there is no way they would do that again...
so the likelyhood is that it would offically be a labour minority administration run with a snp/lib dem "nod and a wink"........ |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
News Biscuit has an incisive analysis too. Together with the Daily Mash I feel that I have a sound source to form my political opinions with:
LEAVE VOTERS FURIOUS THAT FARAGE WON’T BE THEIR LOCAL COUNCILLOR
GRUMBLECHOPS POLITICS MAY 4, 2019
Farage
Leave voters up and down the country took to social media today to express their anger that they were unable to vote for Nigel Farage in their local council elections, despite local councillors having no say in the EU withdrawal process and the Brexit Party itself having no policies or manifesto.
Voter Wayne Pearce from Norfolk said: ‘I like to think I’m fairly clued up on politics these days, but when I got to the Polling Station and saw I couldn’t vote for Mr Farage to be my councillor I was disgusted. This is another attempt by The Establishment to silence the will of the people’.
Similarly in Bromsgrove, Carol Sharpe complained: ‘I voted to Leave and would have voted for Nigel to make sure that happens. What do you mean, ‘Who do I want in charge of my bin collections’? What’s that go to do with it?’
Exit Polls suggest Nigel Farage would have won seats on 52 councils up and down the country, including 6 on Thanet Council, and the rumour is that he is considering launching a campaign to have electoral rules changed to allow him to stand in all wards, on all councils.
When asked how he could possibly sit on councils the length and breadth of the country simultaneously without massively neglecting his duties, Mr Farage replied: ‘The people have spoken. Working out how to avoid it being a colossal disaster isn’t my job.’
‘In any case, I’d probably do what I did at the EU and just not bother turning up. What’s a Councillor’s pension like, anyway?’ |
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"This backlash will be nothing compared to the next election.The next parliament will without doubt be a hung parliament.
how do you think labour will do in next elections bob ?
Labour will be in a coalition government after the next GE.
SNP/labour coalition looks likely and maybe lthe lib dems and greens will join them .Its looking like the Conservatives will take the biggest kicking for their handling of brexit .Rightly so .They started the ball rolling then they dropped the ball now they can't stop the ball crushing all before it.
after the kicking the lib dems took for being part of a formal coalition there is no way they would do that again...
so the likelyhood is that it would offically be a labour minority administration run with a snp/lib dem "nod and a wink"........"
with you on that Fabio lib dems had there fingers burnt badly last time no way will they do that again |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"This backlash will be nothing compared to the next election.The next parliament will without doubt be a hung parliament.
how do you think labour will do in next elections bob ?
Labour will be in a coalition government after the next GE.
SNP/labour coalition looks likely and maybe lthe lib dems and greens will join them .Its looking like the Conservatives will take the biggest kicking for their handling of brexit .Rightly so .They started the ball rolling then they dropped the ball now they can't stop the ball crushing all before it.
after the kicking the lib dems took for being part of a formal coalition there is no way they would do that again...
so the likelyhood is that it would offically be a labour minority administration run with a snp/lib dem "nod and a wink"........"
corbyn would probably offer the snp another indi vote for their support. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
"
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
"
Most probably true, it was a screen shot pic I saw so no comments after it.
But then allocate % of seats between Remain and Brexiteer MP's of each party "which I know have nothing to do with locals" but it changes that dynamic massively the other way again.
It's a shitty mess lol
Anyway, I wonder how long it'll be before T May drags her Brexit before the House of commons yet again... |
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"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
Most probably true, it was a screen shot pic I saw so no comments after it.
But then allocate % of seats between Remain and Brexiteer MP's of each party "which I know have nothing to do with locals" but it changes that dynamic massively the other way again.
It's a shitty mess lol
Anyway, I wonder how long it'll be before T May drags her Brexit before the House of commons yet again... "
Although Labour could be regarded as didn’t vote as they are sitting on the fence.
Surely the loss to the Tories and Labour and gain to LDs, Green and Indy show’s that people want to choose again. The Tories & Labour are losing not because they haven’t made Brexit happen, but more because we are all fed up with it and want it to go away.
End of Brexit! |
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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
Most probably true, it was a screen shot pic I saw so no comments after it.
But then allocate % of seats between Remain and Brexiteer MP's of each party "which I know have nothing to do with locals" but it changes that dynamic massively the other way again.
It's a shitty mess lol
Anyway, I wonder how long it'll be before T May drags her Brexit before the House of commons yet again...
Although Labour could be regarded as didn’t vote as they are sitting on the fence.
Surely the loss to the Tories and Labour and gain to LDs, Green and Indy show’s that people want to choose again. The Tories & Labour are losing not because they haven’t made Brexit happen, but more because we are all fed up with it and want it to go away.
End of Brexit! "
codswallop and you know it is |
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"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
Most probably true, it was a screen shot pic I saw so no comments after it.
But then allocate % of seats between Remain and Brexiteer MP's of each party "which I know have nothing to do with locals" but it changes that dynamic massively the other way again.
It's a shitty mess lol
Anyway, I wonder how long it'll be before T May drags her Brexit before the House of commons yet again...
Although Labour could be regarded as didn’t vote as they are sitting on the fence.
Surely the loss to the Tories and Labour and gain to LDs, Green and Indy show’s that people want to choose again. The Tories & Labour are losing not because they haven’t made Brexit happen, but more because we are all fed up with it and want it to go away.
End of Brexit! codswallop and you know it is "
The poor chap has got Brexit fever, looks like he will never recover! |
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"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
"
It's the swing that counts and the swing in this election was definitely against UKIP, Conservatives and Labour (all leave parties) and towards LibDem, Greens (both remain parties) and independent candidates (who knows where they are).
To try to argue that in these local elections there hasn't been a swink from Leave to Remain is to simply deny the facts. You can argue that there may well have been local mitigating factors; you could also argue, probably more convincingly, that while Remainers who were disappointed with the two main parties handling of BREXIT in most cases had someone else they could vote for, in most cases Leavers who were disappointed with the two main parties had no one else to vote for.
I guess the real test will come on 23 May. It will be interested to see how many votes the BREXIT party and UKIP (no deal, hard leave) get, Labour & Conservatives (May's deal or something very like it) get, and LibDem, ChangeUK, Greens, Plaid C and SNP (Remain) get. That'll be a far better reflection of where the will of the people now stands.
|
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"This made me laugh from a fb feed...
Local elections results of gains and losses
UKIP (Ultra Brexit) - 70%
CON (Hard Brexit) - 25%
LAB (Sneaky Brexit) - 10%
LD (Remain) + 110%
GRN (Remain) + 550%
@bbclaurak analysis : This could mean people want to just get on with Brexit
And the reply I saw was....
Remain Parties...1,500 seats
Brexit Parties...7,000 seats
It's the swing that counts and the swing in this election was definitely against UKIP, Conservatives and Labour (all leave parties) and towards LibDem, Greens (both remain parties) and independent candidates (who knows where they are).
To try to argue that in these local elections there hasn't been a swink from Leave to Remain is to simply deny the facts. You can argue that there may well have been local mitigating factors; you could also argue, probably more convincingly, that while Remainers who were disappointed with the two main parties handling of BREXIT in most cases had someone else they could vote for, in most cases Leavers who were disappointed with the two main parties had no one else to vote for.
I guess the real test will come on 23 May. It will be interested to see how many votes the BREXIT party and UKIP (no deal, hard leave) get, Labour & Conservatives (May's deal or something very like it) get, and LibDem, ChangeUK, Greens, Plaid C and SNP (Remain) get. That'll be a far better reflection of where the will of the people now stands.
"
The real test will be a Referendum, but the EU elections will be a good start |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The real test will be a Referendum, but the EU elections will be a good start "
my biggest fear is because it done on a "PR but you have to get so much% to be eligible for at least 1 seat" base... is that because the brexit party has no competition for the hard brexit vote (even though we know that would be madness) they will scoop up all that vote, but the lib dems/Greens/Change UK parties will basically canabalise each other in the "remain" space........
the percentage is going to be there.... but they are not going to get the seats because of they system......
and people will yet again use it to try and get out the 2nd referendum....
I still think that is more likely to happen than the general election, I'd rather not give farage the oxygen! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
However the vote is counted. And whatever the results. All sides wi spin to their agenda.
There will be something ironic IF there is a referendum and we choose to remain that the largest Uk party in the eu will have a single policy. And that goes against the new will of the people. Its a big If. But a funny outcome |
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By *ave 42Man
over a year ago
pontefract |
"However the vote is counted. And whatever the results. All sides wi spin to their agenda.
There will be something ironic IF there is a referendum and we choose to remain that the largest Uk party in the eu will have a single policy. And that goes against the new will of the people. Its a big If. But a funny outcome "
Think the only funny outcome if there is another referendum and the people still vote to leave will the remainers accept they lost for a second time or would they still think the great uneducated masses still don’t know what they are doing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"However the vote is counted. And whatever the results. All sides wi spin to their agenda.
There will be something ironic IF there is a referendum and we choose to remain that the largest Uk party in the eu will have a single policy. And that goes against the new will of the people. Its a big If. But a funny outcome
Think the only funny outcome if there is another referendum and the people still vote to leave will the remainers accept they lost for a second time or would they still think the great uneducated masses still don’t know what they are doing."
I think leavers would. On the most part those who push for a second vote seem to be doing it on the basis of a) the mechanics of leave were never defined so no one knew what type of leave theyd end up wigh b) no one talked about having no deal so even with knowing there was uncertainty then we're ending up in a place not really discussed and c) not even leavers can agree what leave means
I think most remainders would be happy witba second vote on no deal versus remain. And wkidm a ceog the vote.
Most leavers seem to want to test the idea of no deal out. Ddpaite this being gne pure version of leaving the EU. |
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By *ave 42Man
over a year ago
pontefract |
"However the vote is counted. And whatever the results. All sides wi spin to their agenda.
There will be something ironic IF there is a referendum and we choose to remain that the largest Uk party in the eu will have a single policy. And that goes against the new will of the people. Its a big If. But a funny outcome
Think the only funny outcome if there is another referendum and the people still vote to leave will the remainers accept they lost for a second time or would they still think the great uneducated masses still don’t know what they are doing.
I think leavers would. On the most part those who push for a second vote seem to be doing it on the basis of a) the mechanics of leave were never defined so no one knew what type of leave theyd end up wigh b) no one talked about having no deal so even with knowing there was uncertainty then we're ending up in a place not really discussed and c) not even leavers can agree what leave means
I think most remainders would be happy witba second vote on no deal versus remain. And wkidm a ceog the vote.
Most leavers seem to want to test the idea of no deal out. Ddpaite this being gne pure version of leaving the EU. "
Hypothetically I can see where you are coming from but why should remainers get a second chance to vote remain surely any confirmatory vote should only be about any possible deal agreed between the tories and labour , Mays deal , or no deal and remain shouldn’t even be an option, seeing as we’ve have already voted to leave
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If the Hop agree a way of leaving then I think this is the way we should leave. We elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf.
I'd see a second vote only if they couldn't agree an exit. In which case no deal is the onky way out.
And as this has next to no air time during the referendum, and because it wasn't part of any promise (referendum or GE) then I think it does need a public view.
And given a vote needs an alternative option can't see any other alternative than remain as that is where we are today. |
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By *ave 42Man
over a year ago
pontefract |
"If the Hop agree a way of leaving then I think this is the way we should leave. We elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf.
I'd see a second vote only if they couldn't agree an exit. In which case no deal is the onky way out.
And as this has next to no air time during the referendum, and because it wasn't part of any promise (referendum or GE) then I think it does need a public view.
And given a vote needs an alternative option can't see any other alternative than remain as that is where we are today. "
But surely having remain as an option in any subsequent vote won’t stand up to the 17.4 million who were promised at the following GE that the result of the referendum would be upheld
So if remain is added why would the people who voted leave bother to vote again when they have already cast their vote
I agree a vote should be put back to the people but only on a subsequent leave deal or no deal but definitely not remain |
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"However the vote is counted. And whatever the results. All sides wi spin to their agenda.
There will be something ironic IF there is a referendum and we choose to remain that the largest Uk party in the eu will have a single policy. And that goes against the new will of the people. Its a big If. But a funny outcome
Think the only funny outcome if there is another referendum and the people still vote to leave will the remainers accept they lost for a second time or would they still think the great uneducated masses still don’t know what they are doing.
I think leavers would. On the most part those who push for a second vote seem to be doing it on the basis of a) the mechanics of leave were never defined so no one knew what type of leave theyd end up wigh b) no one talked about having no deal so even with knowing there was uncertainty then we're ending up in a place not really discussed and c) not even leavers can agree what leave means
I think most remainders would be happy witba second vote on no deal versus remain. And wkidm a ceog the vote.
Most leavers seem to want to test the idea of no deal out. Ddpaite this being gne pure version of leaving the EU. "
of course remainers would be happy woth a second vote most haven’t accepted the first vote but if a second vote won the we are in the same shit woth leavers wanting a third vote and so on so when will it end ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If the Hop agree a way of leaving then I think this is the way we should leave. We elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf.
I'd see a second vote only if they couldn't agree an exit. In which case no deal is the onky way out.
And as this has next to no air time during the referendum, and because it wasn't part of any promise (referendum or GE) then I think it does need a public view.
And given a vote needs an alternative option can't see any other alternative than remain as that is where we are today.
But surely having remain as an option in any subsequent vote won’t stand up to the 17.4 million who were promised at the following GE that the result of the referendum would be upheld
So if remain is added why would the people who voted leave bother to vote again when they have already cast their vote
I agree a vote should be put back to the people but only on a subsequent leave deal or no deal but definitely not remain "
But if there is no agreed deal what else is put on the voting slip?
And can you be sure the 17m had considered no deal as bei g an outcome. Like I said no one really talked about it as leave said the EU would cave. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"If the Hop agree a way of leaving then I think this is the way we should leave. We elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf.
I'd see a second vote only if they couldn't agree an exit. In which case no deal is the onky way out.
And as this has next to no air time during the referendum, and because it wasn't part of any promise (referendum or GE) then I think it does need a public view.
And given a vote needs an alternative option can't see any other alternative than remain as that is where we are today.
But surely having remain as an option in any subsequent vote won’t stand up to the 17.4 million who were promised at the following GE that the result of the referendum would be upheld
So if remain is added why would the people who voted leave bother to vote again when they have already cast their vote
I agree a vote should be put back to the people but only on a subsequent leave deal or no deal but definitely not remain "
There is no such thing as “no Deal.” Even the Brextremists now refer to it as a “managed” no deal. In other words lots and lots of little deals. Who decides which little deals get developed and who says the EU will agree?
It is patent nonsense to talk about “no deal.” It cannot happen without small deals to smooth the way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But surely having remain as an option in any subsequent vote won’t stand up to the 17.4 million who were promised at the following GE that the result of the referendum would be upheld
So if remain is added why would the people who voted leave bother to vote again when they have already cast their vote
I agree a vote should be put back to the people but only on a subsequent leave deal or no deal but definitely not remain "
I can understand both sides of the argument,
1. Leave won so we should leave
2. As all promises by leave about we will get a better deal is bullshit we should get to decide on if we want the Brexit May has negotiated or not and stay as we are.
The analog that always springs to mind is...
Deciding I want to buy a house, I see an advert for one, put an offer in before viewing it, then after viewing it it looks nothing like the Estate agency advertised it as.
I then get the surveys done and it'll probably cost me a lot more than presumed, nothing really is as advertised and I don't think it is worth the asking price now.
So should I reevaluate whether I should buy it or not...
Or
Buy it anyway because that was my initial decision to buy irrespective of what I know now that I didn't before. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But surely having remain as an option in any subsequent vote won’t stand up to the 17.4 million who were promised at the following GE that the result of the referendum would be upheld
So if remain is added why would the people who voted leave bother to vote again when they have already cast their vote
I agree a vote should be put back to the people but only on a subsequent leave deal or no deal but definitely not remain
I can understand both sides of the argument,
1. Leave won so we should leave
2. As all promises by leave about we will get a better deal is bullshit we should get to decide on if we want the Brexit May has negotiated or not and stay as we are.
The analog that always springs to mind is...
Deciding I want to buy a house, I see an advert for one, put an offer in before viewing it, then after viewing it it looks nothing like the Estate agency advertised it as.
I then get the surveys done and it'll probably cost me a lot more than presumed, nothing really is as advertised and I don't think it is worth the asking price now.
So should I reevaluate whether I should buy it or not...
Or
Buy it anyway because that was my initial decision to buy irrespective of what I know now that I didn't before. "
The problem with all of this is that the leavers point of view is that if the contract is crap then its our own tough shit for signing a crap deal and we just have to get on with it no matter how painful it will be. Remainers on the other hand are saying leavers signed off on a contract that can no longer be fulfilled which invalidates the contract. So what are we to do? Democracy is not in danger if we choose to change our minds - if anything it is a pragmatic and democratic response to a shit situation to step back and review it and try to make it work for everyone instead of plowing ahead regardless. Or perhaps we should become the first nation to be nominated for a Darwin award? |
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"If the Hop agree a way of leaving then I think this is the way we should leave. We elect MPs to make decisions on our behalf.
I'd see a second vote only if they couldn't agree an exit. In which case no deal is the onky way out.
And as this has next to no air time during the referendum, and because it wasn't part of any promise (referendum or GE) then I think it does need a public view.
And given a vote needs an alternative option can't see any other alternative than remain as that is where we are today.
But surely having remain as an option in any subsequent vote won’t stand up to the 17.4 million who were promised at the following GE that the result of the referendum would be upheld
So if remain is added why would the people who voted leave bother to vote again when they have already cast their vote
I agree a vote should be put back to the people but only on a subsequent leave deal or no deal but definitely not remain "
No deal is not what what promised at the referendum, what was promised was a better deal then we currently have, because we would hold all the cards. Why should 'no deal' be on any future referendum? What you seem to saying is that the people who voted to leave the EU with a better deal than we currently have would have all voted to leave regardless of whether the deal would be better or worse than we currently have or even 'no deal'. Where is the evidence for that?
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By *ave 42Man
over a year ago
pontefract |
Remainers on the other hand are saying leavers signed off on a contract that can no longer be fulfilled which invalidates the contract. So what are we to do? Democracy is not in danger if we choose to change our minds - if anything it is a pragmatic and democratic response to a shit situation to step back and review it and try to make it work for everyone instead of plowing ahead regardless.
Just curious as to how you make it work for everyone without it effecting democracy
The public voted to leave the EU in a democratic vote
If we remain in any part of the EU ie a customs union, surely that’s going against the democratic will of the people because that’s not what they voted for
If someone can convince me how we can make it work for everyone then I’m more than happen to listen
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The only cards we are all holding is the jokers
They do not need to anything as the uk will have to go cap in hand for tree with the EU as they can get anything the UK can supply from other sources |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The UK was on the inside with a set of opt-outs.
Now we want to be on the outside with a set of opt-ins.
It is perfectly possible for the UK to align itself with the EU via a customs union and still sit outside the EU. |
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"Remainers on the other hand are saying leavers signed off on a contract that can no longer be fulfilled which invalidates the contract. So what are we to do? Democracy is not in danger if we choose to change our minds - if anything it is a pragmatic and democratic response to a shit situation to step back and review it and try to make it work for everyone instead of plowing ahead regardless.
Just curious as to how you make it work for everyone without it effecting democracy
The public voted to leave the EU in a democratic vote
If we remain in any part of the EU ie a customs union, surely that’s going against the democratic will of the people because that’s not what they voted for
If someone can convince me how we can make it work for everyone then I’m more than happen to listen
"
That's not really true. While some Leavers did say that we would Leave the Customs Union and the Single Market others said we wouldn't. Farage himself often said we could be like Norway or Switzerland (in the Single Market but not in the EU). What they all did say was that we would leave with a better deal than we currently have. Non of them said we would leave with a worse deal or no deal.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remainers on the other hand are saying leavers signed off on a contract that can no longer be fulfilled which invalidates the contract. So what are we to do? Democracy is not in danger if we choose to change our minds - if anything it is a pragmatic and democratic response to a shit situation to step back and review it and try to make it work for everyone instead of plowing ahead regardless.
Just curious as to how you make it work for everyone without it effecting democracy
The public voted to leave the EU in a democratic vote
If we remain in any part of the EU ie a customs union, surely that’s going against the democratic will of the people because that’s not what they voted for
If someone can convince me how we can make it work for everyone then I’m more than happen to listen
"
There is no democratic consensus at the moment and parliament are unable to move forward. I am afraid that reiterating that brexit won and that not carrying out the democratic vote would be the end of democracy is not moving this forward in any way. This was always a protest vote and therefore no real solutions were presented by the main parties because they started from a false premise that we were being held back and controlled by the EU. To be honest I liken the current crop of politicians to the first world war generals whose outdated thinking led to catastrophe. eg BoJo tweeting that he had just voted in the London local elections when there were none! The man is a liar and amoral in his pursuit of fame and power not to mention another bloody old Etonian! I cannot for the life of me see that any of the pro-Brexit parties have any real evidence for their antagonism to the EU and it just strikes me as a protest vote fed by the right wing neo-conservative liberalisation agenda which always blames the other rather than the poor quality of the political elite and their old boy networks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"been listening to james o brien again? you have pretty much just wrote word for word what he said about an hour ago ffs come up with your own opinions sheeple lol"
Be nice to know who you are responding to? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The UK was on the inside with a set of opt-outs.
Now we want to be on the outside with a set of opt-ins.
It is perfectly possible for the UK to align itself with the EU via a customs union and still sit outside the EU."
Ah but to have a customs union we would have to abide by the EU rule of not having our own trade deals with other countries.
A much better idea would be to stay in the EU as is.
But the hardliners seem to think there are better options outside the EU all together and that they will come to us NOT!!! |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"been listening to james o brien again? you have pretty much just wrote word for word what he said about an hour ago ffs come up with your own opinions sheeple lol
Be nice to know who you are responding to?"
you mate what you wrote out is exactally wat kames o brien opened his show with really need to get your own rants mate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"been listening to james o brien again? you have pretty much just wrote word for word what he said about an hour ago ffs come up with your own opinions sheeple lol
Be nice to know who you are responding to? you mate what you wrote out is exactally wat kames o brien opened his show with really need to get your own rants mate "
I am sorry old chum but I dont have any idea who he is - I tend to work shit out all by myself - thinking suits me |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"been listening to james o brien again? you have pretty much just wrote word for word what he said about an hour ago ffs come up with your own opinions sheeple lol
Be nice to know who you are responding to? you mate what you wrote out is exactally wat kames o brien opened his show with really need to get your own rants mate
I am sorry old chum but I dont have any idea who he is - I tend to work shit out all by myself - thinking suits me "
whatever you say mate but you should really give em a shout out if ya gona post someone elses rant.and before ya call me a gammon or any other remainer insults i do pull up leavers if i see em using someone elses argument as there own.you peeps are as fundamentalist as the other side and leavers or remainers cant see if |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"been listening to james o brien again? you have pretty much just wrote word for word what he said about an hour ago ffs come up with your own opinions sheeple lol
Be nice to know who you are responding to? you mate what you wrote out is exactally wat kames o brien opened his show with really need to get your own rants mate
I am sorry old chum but I dont have any idea who he is - I tend to work shit out all by myself - thinking suits me
whatever you say mate but you should really give em a shout out if ya gona post someone elses rant.and before ya call me a gammon or any other remainer insults i do pull up leavers if i see em using someone elses argument as there own.you peeps are as fundamentalist as the other side and leavers or remainers cant see if "
And how many times have leavers posted on here Jacob Rees Moggs mantra about no deal WTO rules will lower prices for food, clothing and footwear.
I think you're just sniping aimlessly and pointlessly from the sidelines mate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remainers on the other hand are saying leavers signed off on a contract that can no longer be fulfilled which invalidates the contract. So what are we to do? Democracy is not in danger if we choose to change our minds - if anything it is a pragmatic and democratic response to a shit situation to step back and review it and try to make it work for everyone instead of plowing ahead regardless.
Just curious as to how you make it work for everyone without it effecting democracy
The public voted to leave the EU in a democratic vote
If we remain in any part of the EU ie a customs union, surely that’s going against the democratic will of the people because that’s not what they voted for
If someone can convince me how we can make it work for everyone then I’m more than happen to listen
"
Being on a CU with the EU is subtlety different to being in the EU CU. It's why everyone is kicking off so as it's seen as a worse arrangement. But by the very fact its worse means we're not in the EU. So one could argue the mandate has been delivered. Anything else is second guessing the reasons why people voted out.
If the previous vote was basically voting on do deal (on day one) versus remain then a secind vote should see the same result delivered.
And as its a democratic vote, it reaffirms democracy.
The big (unspoken) reason many leavers are against a no deal v remain vote is remain may win. Which they can't say given they are pushing the will of the people angle.
Unless I've missed an argument in my fab hiatus. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"been listening to james o brien again? you have pretty much just wrote word for word what he said about an hour ago ffs come up with your own opinions sheeple lol
Be nice to know who you are responding to? you mate what you wrote out is exactally wat kames o brien opened his show with really need to get your own rants mate
I am sorry old chum but I dont have any idea who he is - I tend to work shit out all by myself - thinking suits me
whatever you say mate but you should really give em a shout out if ya gona post someone elses rant.and before ya call me a gammon or any other remainer insults i do pull up leavers if i see em using someone elses argument as there own.you peeps are as fundamentalist as the other side and leavers or remainers cant see if "
I don’t know if you’re a leaver or remainer, me old mucker....all I know about you is that you like to take a pop at anybody and anything so I wont worry |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Remainers on the other hand are saying leavers signed off on a contract that can no longer be fulfilled which invalidates the contract. So what are we to do? Democracy is not in danger if we choose to change our minds - if anything it is a pragmatic and democratic response to a shit situation to step back and review it and try to make it work for everyone instead of plowing ahead regardless.
Just curious as to how you make it work for everyone without it effecting democracy
The public voted to leave the EU in a democratic vote
If we remain in any part of the EU ie a customs union, surely that’s going against the democratic will of the people because that’s not what they voted for
If someone can convince me how we can make it work for everyone then I’m more than happen to listen
Being on a CU with the EU is subtlety different to being in the EU CU. It's why everyone is kicking off so as it's seen as a worse arrangement. But by the very fact its worse means we're not in the EU. So one could argue the mandate has been delivered. Anything else is second guessing the reasons why people voted out.
If the previous vote was basically voting on do deal (on day one) versus remain then a secind vote should see the same result delivered.
And as its a democratic vote, it reaffirms democracy.
The big (unspoken) reason many leavers are against a no deal v remain vote is remain may win. Which they can't say given they are pushing the will of the people angle.
Unless I've missed an argument in my fab hiatus. "
I think you’re absolutely right. The margin was so slight for leave in the first place that it was never a convincing win and thats why we are where we are and the only way to clear the air is for a second referendum to take place with the knowledge we now have of all the issues. I still think that the most sensible solution to all of this would have been to have a royal commission look at the whole issue which would have saved us from the lies and dishonesty of politicians on all sides and would have allowed opinions to be expressed which were moderated rather than the fundamentalist bollocks we are all enduring. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Makes me laugh when I see people posting about prices coming down
What make them think that will happen ? Unless you want to give more support to sweat shop labour or lower standards for food and goods.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"& we have shortages of doctors, nurses, teachers, fruit pickers, etc. Where is the Leave answer to this?"
I think what a lot of leavers may not have realised is, that the brexiteers plans for the future for many people in the Uk will be like it was 100 years ago when an annual holiday was 5 days camping on a farm picking fruit, hops etc and the days of cheap flights to the sun are over. My advice is to buy up property in faded seaside resorts to cater for the lower middle and working classes who will be forced to holiday in dear old blighty! Slightly tongue in cheek I know, but I am sure the upper middle would prefer to keep the workers at home where they belong! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Notice that the ones telling people that everything will be ok and we will not suffer any losses are all pretty well off.
You can guarantee they will be ok |
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