FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Brexit aaaaaaaar

Brexit aaaaaaaar

By *ackem5555 OP Man over a year ago

bishop auckland

I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

You've changed yours.

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By *ackem5555 OP Man over a year ago

bishop auckland

Because there should not be a second vote as leave won iscmy point I'd vote leave, I still want us to remain but democracy is worth more

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Didn't we have this exact thread from you yesterday?

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By *ackem5555 OP Man over a year ago

bishop auckland

Yes, am I only allowed to post it once?????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, am I only allowed to post it once????? "

Depends on your view. Some say opinions should only be expressed once. Bit like the referendum really!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, am I only allowed to post it once????? "

You're "allowed" to post it as many times as you please...just not sure I see the point, could've just bumped your other thread...

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By *ackem5555 OP Man over a year ago

bishop auckland

So the magirity win but the minority want to vote and vote till they get it right? Hope we can do the voting like this if the freak corbin is elected as prime minister

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are pros and cons to the concept of Brexit. As a non UK resident I can't help feeling the concept of Brexit you were presented with when you voted, has no resemblance to what's likely to transpire. Wouldn't a second referendum on the finalised deal or remain be most logical at this point ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There are pros and cons to the concept of Brexit. As a non UK resident I can't help feeling the concept of Brexit you were presented with when you voted, has no resemblance to what's likely to transpire. Wouldn't a second referendum on the finalised deal or remain be most logical at this point ?"

Only if the electorate are able to make an informed choice. Given the barrage of anti-EU propaganda the country's been deluged with for decades, I don't think thats possible, which is why there should never have been a referendum in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So the magirity win but the minority want to vote and vote till they get it right? Hope we can do the voting like this if the freak corbin is elected as prime minister"

We can. We have general elections at least every five years.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected."

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected."
what mistake I voted out and still want out or is the mistake that it didn't go your way

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By *ackem5555 OP Man over a year ago

bishop auckland

Agree 5 Yr elections but brexit was once in a lifetime and was told would happen, I again voted remain and 100% believe its wrong to go but if we go against a magirity of 17.4 million people with a different view I think we will end up never voting again for anything and why can we not vote to elect junket and tusk etc who effectively rule our lives, I say again I voted to remain but believe our democracy and vote should be fully respected

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By *evil_u_knowMan over a year ago

city

voting leave a second time wont speed it up.

UK needs a backstop, explained before the vote, during the vote, after the vote, America is even flying over to explain no deal needs a backstop, but leave people think the "experts" can come up with an alternative. The experts alternative was remain which they wanted and were ignored on.

So its actually the leave people sabotaging leave. The remainers have basically been very accommodating and accepted all and any proposals that uphold previous commitments by the UK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be."

I said none of those things. I think you made a mistake that will damage the country. I think you've been lied to, repeatedly, for years, and you've been taken in. You're not thick, or scum, you're the victims of a very long-running, very well-financed con job.

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By *eliciousladyWoman over a year ago

Sometimes U.K

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected. "

what mistake? I voted out and still want out or is the mistake that it didn't go your way"

Agreed.

Also gives the electorate who made the mistake to remain will realise their error and vote leave this time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So the magirity win but the minority want to vote and vote till they get it right? Hope we can do the voting like this if the freak corbin is elected as prime minister"

There's a few issues.

A.) There is no legal contract to say the referendum result has to be implemented.

B.) Our own Court system highlighted that if the referendum was legally binding the Leave campaign would have had to unanimously define what leaving was.

C.) If there was no clear definition for leaving, all opinions would have to be put on the table. So Daniel Hannan saying "no body is seriously considering leaving the single market" would be fair game for tabling Ken Clarke's amendment alongside WTO brexit.

D.) Our own courts highlighted that it's convention under our parliamentary process, that in a referendum you must have a 5% majority to be able to implement it.

In short, if this referendum were legally binding, it shouldn't be implemented upon, as nobody had a 5% majority. The government could be taken to court in this.

There are so many other issues with brexit. I mean brexit in the campaign was never defined, that's a red flag for me.

I mean if I were to buy a house and someone said, "oh yeah, there are 3 bedrooms, maybe even 4 or 5 if you do this. But I'm seriously not selling you a house with 1 or 2 bedrooms" I'd tell the person to take a hike.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please"

Illegal vote. And to vote to leave is suicide

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Because there should not be a second vote as leave won iscmy point I'd vote leave, I still want us to remain but democracy is worth more"

Not democratic as illegal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected."

Quote right. Common sense

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"voting leave a second time wont speed it up.

So its actually the leave people sabotaging leave. The remainers have basically been very accommodating and accepted all and any proposals that uphold previous commitments by the UK."

It's quite funny.

All I've heard for 3-4 years is leavers talking about trade with America, and the anglosphere Commonwealth.

Yet all these countries, especially America have told us that N.I must have a backstop unless we work out a way to leave but have the same arrangement as now.

You'd think they would listen to those they want to be more involved with.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, am I only allowed to post it once?????

Depends on your view. Some say opinions should only be expressed once. Bit like the referendum really!"

Except we have had two already

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So the magirity win but the minority want to vote and vote till they get it right? Hope we can do the voting like this if the freak corbin is elected as prime minister"

Like having an election mid term?????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you point to and pros on leaving? I’ve never been presented with a logical argument to leave yet.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Agree 5 Yr elections but brexit was once in a lifetime and was told would happen, I again voted remain and 100% believe its wrong to go but if we go against a magirity of 17.4 million people with a different view I think we will end up never voting again for anything and why can we not vote to elect junket and tusk etc who effectively rule our lives, I say again I voted to remain but believe our democracy and vote should be fully respected"

Question:

If people vote for something, but the process by which the something has been brought about was:

. Not legally binding.

. Conducted illegally by some groups.

. Mismanaged campaigns, so much so that data needed for Court cases has been lost.

. Not planned for until the last minute.

Do you still push it through, breaking your own laws and conventions in the process?

I'm not saying you don't bother to leave, but in such a mess, you might have to have a legally binding confirmation where all options are on the table and explained.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be.

I work in construction.

I know have to get up at 4 am on a Monday morning to travel 7 hours to work and I do t get back home until 7pm on a Friday evening.

Only to make the same wages as I did at home 12 years ago.

The one reason is freedom of movement means our industry is flooded with cheap eastern European workers.

I don't blame them for being here but it has destroyed my home lifestyle .

If you raise concern about it you are branded a racist.

I never made a mistake I know what I voted for.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please"

thats ridiculous you vote for what you want everyone should if i get the chance to vote i will be voting remain because thats what i want

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be.

I work in construction.

I know have to get up at 4 am on a Monday morning to travel 7 hours to work and I do t get back home until 7pm on a Friday evening.

Only to make the same wages as I did at home 12 years ago.

The one reason is freedom of movement means our industry is flooded with cheap eastern European workers.

I don't blame them for being here but it has destroyed my home lifestyle .

If you raise concern about it you are branded a racist.

I never made a mistake I know what I voted for."

Don't blame the EU for that, blame the Labour and Tory governments that chose not to enact migration controls that every other EU member did, and that allow your employers to use that pool of cheap labour to undercut your working conditions.

One of the great triumphs of the Europhobic movement, aided and abetted by successive governments, has been to blame Brussels for decisions taken in Westminster.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be.

I work in construction.

I know have to get up at 4 am on a Monday morning to travel 7 hours to work and I do t get back home until 7pm on a Friday evening.

Only to make the same wages as I did at home 12 years ago.

The one reason is freedom of movement means our industry is flooded with cheap eastern European workers.

I don't blame them for being here but it has destroyed my home lifestyle .

If you raise concern about it you are branded a racist.

I never made a mistake I know what I voted for.

One of the great triumphs of the Europhobic movement, aided and abetted by successive governments, has been to blame Brussels for decisions taken in Westminster."

i keep wanting to press like but their is no like button on here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be.

I work in construction.

I know have to get up at 4 am on a Monday morning to travel 7 hours to work and I do t get back home until 7pm on a Friday evening.

Only to make the same wages as I did at home 12 years ago.

The one reason is freedom of movement means our industry is flooded with cheap eastern European workers.

I don't blame them for being here but it has destroyed my home lifestyle .

If you raise concern about it you are branded a racist.

I never made a mistake I know what I voted for.

One of the great triumphs of the Europhobic movement, aided and abetted by successive governments, has been to blame Brussels for decisions taken in Westminster."
Regardless of what you just wrote.

Freedom of movement has destroyed the life we had at home directly.

Now we only see eachother at weekends and for not one penny more than what we were earning 12 year ago.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

as a extruck driver i can say our wage were kept down because of European workers but thats not eu fault thats british companys faults , i was working in holland when the recession hit i had a good job well payed but they stopped employing foreign workers and looked after their own unlike this country where business looked after them selfs and employed people for less

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected."
Not agreeing with you does not make it the wrong decision,we are meant to be a democracy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.Not agreeing with you does not make it the wrong decision,we are meant to be a democracy"

The fact that the majority voted for something doesn't stop it being a mistake.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

i'd ask the people at the hitachi train factory in your town if they would rather stay than leave, bearing in mind if it was for the huge EU regional development fund money they got, likelyhood being it would not be there..... "
However as the UK is one of the largest contributor to the EU budget , the development fund to which you refer is simply money that we have paid out in the first instance .

Ironically by leaving the EU we will be in a better economic position and will have even more money to pay out in the form of development grants .

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

i'd ask the people at the hitachi train factory in your town if they would rather stay than leave, bearing in mind if it was for the huge EU regional development fund money they got, likelyhood being it would not be there..... "
or you could ask the people in yr town Fabio or most of the northeast were you live if they would change there minds but you already no there answer

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By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

The fact that the majority voted for something doesn't stop it being a mistake. "

17.4 million people didn’t think it was a mistake,

but I forgot we are all uneducated we didn’t know what we were doing which is usually what remainers say on these forums

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The fact that the majority voted for something doesn't stop it being a mistake.

17.4 million people didn’t think it was a mistake,

but I forgot we are all uneducated we didn’t know what we were doing which is usually what remainers say on these forums

So were the 17.4 million aware of Irish border problem? Not thick, mislead.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one."
no argument not interested in making it better for the rich companies don't care if I lose my job and house would still vote to leave I agree nothing probably would change but two fingers up to the establishment it's not about a argument it's about democracy voted leave so end

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The fact that the majority voted for something doesn't stop it being a mistake.

17.4 million people didn’t think it was a mistake,

but I forgot we are all uneducated we didn’t know what we were doing which is usually what remainers say on these forums

So were the 17.4 million aware of Irish border problem? Not thick, mislead."
do see a problem with Ireland bang a border up they either like it or can fook off to Europe same as the Scots quite happy to put a border up there as well

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.no argument not interested in making it better for the rich companies don't care if I lose my job and house would still vote to leave I agree nothing probably would change but two fingers up to the establishment it's not about a argument it's about democracy voted leave so end "

You're on the same side as Bullingdon Boris and Farage of the City, and you think you're sticking it to "the establishment"...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You're on the same side as Bullingdon Boris and Farage of the City, and you think you're sticking it to "the establishment"..."
I don't care who it is as long as we get out I'd absolutely piss myself if the queen stood up and said leave

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

This is what gets my goat up.

A remainer at his best lol.

He reckons we are all thick and made a mistake and now like the scum that he thinks we are that we should vote remain this time and be The good little people that he thinks we should be."

A Leaver at their best saying someone has said they are...

Thick...

Scum...

When all they sais was that the vote was a mistake.

Fair enough argue the case that it wasn't a mistake but the rest of your invention....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You're on the same side as Bullingdon Boris and Farage of the City, and you think you're sticking it to "the establishment"...I don't care who it is as long as we get out I'd absolutely piss myself if the queen stood up and said leave

Can’t believe what I read here!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The fact that the majority voted for something doesn't stop it being a mistake.

17.4 million people didn’t think it was a mistake,

but I forgot we are all uneducated we didn’t know what we were doing which is usually what remainers say on these forums

So were the 17.4 million aware of Irish border problem? Not thick, mislead.do see a problem with Ireland bang a border up they either like it or can fook off to Europe same as the Scots quite happy to put a border up there as well

I suggest most voters did not give a thought to the border problem. Or the fact we make our own immigration laws and always have done. Manipulated by right wing press. Doesn’t make voters thick though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one."
.The benefits are endless . To date no one is able to explain how being a member of the EU can possibly help the UK.

The EU is a great organisation if you are a net beneficiary and have no sense of shame about being subsidised by other countries .

Assuming we can leave without a deal the prices of both food and clothing will drop which in turn will help the less well off in society.

Leaving without a deal means that once this happens the EU will become desperate to negotiate deals with us and we can demand very favourable terms.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you point to and pros on leaving? I’ve never been presented with a logical argument to leave yet."

Virtually every single reason given for leaving has no serious economic argument that can improve our country what so ever so we're left with no tangible "benefits" such as taking back control from foreign countries controlling us that no one can name

But hey ho, that's democracy

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one..The benefits are endless . To date no one is able to explain how being a member of the EU can possibly help the UK.

The EU is a great organisation if you are a net beneficiary and have no sense of shame about being subsidised by other countries .

Assuming we can leave without a deal the prices of both food and clothing will drop which in turn will help the less well off in society.

Leaving without a deal means that once this happens the EU will become desperate to negotiate deals with us and we can demand very favourable terms. "

Dream on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one..The benefits are endless . To date no one is able to explain how being a member of the EU can possibly help the UK.

The EU is a great organisation if you are a net beneficiary and have no sense of shame about being subsidised by other countries .

Assuming we can leave without a deal the prices of both food and clothing will drop which in turn will help the less well off in society.

Leaving without a deal means that once this happens the EU will become desperate to negotiate deals with us and we can demand very favourable terms. "

You aren’t aware of tariff free trade? Being part of the biggest economy bring great for ok?

We can’t and won’t be able to demand anything at all. What makes you think that? As for deals, we would need to set them up again and right now we have great deals. Why do you think we are still in? We can’t get any deals done otherwise the date would have been stuck to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you point to and pros on leaving? I’ve never been presented with a logical argument to leave yet.

But hey ho, that's democracy

Lol. Taking back control that we already have!! Classic brexiteer nonsense from right wing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The queen being the head of state voted in by a democratic process.....oh wait!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one..The benefits are endless . To date no one is able to explain how being a member of the EU can possibly help the UK.

The EU is a great organisation if you are a net beneficiary and have no sense of shame about being subsidised by other countries .

Assuming we can leave without a deal the prices of both food and clothing will drop which in turn will help the less well off in society.

Leaving without a deal means that once this happens the EU will become desperate to negotiate deals with us and we can demand very favourable terms. "

Being part of the EU means we have a FTA with the rest of the EU. That's a benefit. And one you want to replicate (without any g'tee we can)

Prices will come tumbling of we put v low tariffs on imports.

Which puts huge pressure on UK businesses where tariffs are protecting them atm.

And means other countries won't have a need to do a FTA with us. They would already have cheap access to the UK market and their businesses will be protected from ours.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can you point to and pros on leaving? I’ve never been presented with a logical argument to leave yet.

But hey ho, that's democracy

"
who cares about economic that's the problem if the companies paid decent wages but no they make more and pay less eg a company I no employed 60 people all English they were on 8.50 now only two left rest foreign on basic wage company profits up but I'm seeing the light at end of the tunnel as another eg was at a well known place last week used to have 76 delivery bays now half closed asked security what's going on said sales are down but mostly closed because load's of foreign worker's gone back home and can't get enough to work and British won't work for minimum wage on zero hour contact I just smiled

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please"

So if we voted for you to eat a shit sandwich, and you voted against it, when asked again you'd vote to eat that shit sandwich because we wanted you to?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

So if we voted for you to eat a shit sandwich, and you voted against it, when asked again you'd vote to eat that shit sandwich because we wanted you to? "

Good question!!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

i'd ask the people at the hitachi train factory in your town if they would rather stay than leave, bearing in mind if it was for the huge EU regional development fund money they got, likelyhood being it would not be there..... However as the UK is one of the largest contributor to the EU budget , the development fund to which you refer is simply money that we have paid out in the first instance .

Ironically by leaving the EU we will be in a better economic position and will have even more money to pay out in the form of development grants . "

the interesting "well its originally our money anyway" arguement.... it might actually have some moxy and reasoning behind it if only for one small fact....

the only reason why places like the north east of england are eligible for EU redevelopment money in the first place is because national government have spent less money in their deprieved areas in the first place....

so i will counter that it the EU is helping those places as much national governments are....

the one thing i wished the EU did more of was "big up" the projects they are actually involved in.......

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

i'd ask the people at the hitachi train factory in your town if they would rather stay than leave, bearing in mind if it was for the huge EU regional development fund money they got, likelyhood being it would not be there..... or you could ask the people in yr town Fabio or most of the northeast were you live if they would change there minds but you already no there answer "

the one thing i am proud of is that newcastle actually voted remain, and people in newcastle are for the most part acutely aware that EU regen money has made a huge difference here... the rebirth of a lot of the quaysideon both sides for example... the western A1 bypass is another example....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So the magirity win but the minority want to vote and vote till they get it right? Hope we can do the voting like this if the freak corbin is elected as prime minister

We can. We have general elections at least every five years."

Indeed we do, but in each and every case, the result of the vote is enacted immediately - i.e. winning candidates become MP's and take their seats in the house, and a government is formed.

In the case of the referendum, the result has still not been implemented.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please"

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on. "

No chance.

If it's a referendum the option is the current economic-political arrangement, or to change it in some way.

Remain must be on the table.

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By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on.

No chance.

If it's a referendum the option is the current economic-political arrangement, or to change it in some way.

Remain must be on the table."

Your having a laugh remain must be on the table

We voted to leave no way can remain be even considered

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By *tace 309TV/TS over a year ago

durham

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected."
the mistake was the fact we, joined the EU in the first place. You can have, as many referendums as you like. I won't ever change my mind. That is FACT

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on. "

I used to think that.

Now I think differently.

If I am offered a vote in which the only choice is to leave the EU, then I am not going to cast a vote for any such option, since it would be endorsing a choice I do not agree with.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *tace 309TV/TS over a year ago

durham

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on.

No chance.

If it's a referendum the option is the current economic-political arrangement, or to change it in some way.

Remain must be on the table."
Why. You get a once in a lifetime vote, and I repeat once.then think just because you don't like the result you get another chance. We didn't get a, second chance when the result was, announced the first time round on joining the common market. What makes, the remain camp think they are so special they deserve a, second vote. It's time to grow up and stop behaving like children. There, again children wouldn't behave the way remoaners do, would they now. It's pathetic

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By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on.

I used to think that.

Now I think differently.

If I am offered a vote in which the only choice is to leave the EU, then I am not going to cast a vote for any such option, since it would be endorsing a choice I do not agree with."

Ok you wanted to remain and I respect your choice but we had a vote to leave so why should remain even be considered when clearly the winning majority in the referendum voted to leave, and both major parties promised to honour the result of the referendum and please don’t come up with “ we didn’t know what we were doing , or we are uneducated and we were misled” 17.4 million people knew exactly what they wanted and voted for it .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on.

No chance.

If it's a referendum the option is the current economic-political arrangement, or to change it in some way.

Remain must be on the table."

It's everyone's right to change their mind.So remain must remain .

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

On an issue of such monumental significance, with a population so finely divided, a political class completely paralysed by the consequences and a Government utterly swamped by the mess, a two-question ballot would be the only sensible way to resolve it.

Three years have elapsed and still the UK is a full member of the EU. That fact alone should tell you it might just be worth double-checking this is what the country still wants, before asking which exit route they want to take.

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By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

"On an issue of such monumental significance, with a population so finely divided, a political class completely paralysed by the consequences and a Government utterly swamped by the mess, a two-question ballot would be the only sensible way to resolve it.

Ok just surmising that remain is on a second ballot paper which a lot of people are not going to accept and people still vote to leave would you respect that result or would you want a 3rd, 4th or 5th ballot until you get the result you want

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

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By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3"

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

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By *bandjam91Couple over a year ago

London

If there was another referendum now the facts are known, and if it was legally binding so that any criminal behaviour could be prosecuted, then I'd accept a vote for Leave.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

The 2016 vote HAS been respected. The government triggered article 50 and has been working on withdrawal. The problem is that achieving a withdrawal that commands widespread acceptance has proved impossible. That isn't failing to respect the result, it's realising that implementing the result is far complicated and difficult than those on the Leave side were willing to admit, unless you're prepared to completely dislocate the nation's economic and legal structure with severe and unpredictable consequences.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

i'd ask the people at the hitachi train factory in your town if they would rather stay than leave, bearing in mind if it was for the huge EU regional development fund money they got, likelyhood being it would not be there..... "
YOu remoaners are getting sad and desparate these things happen anyway

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

Quote right. Common sense "
So what if you lost again?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

Quote right. Common sense So what if you lost again?"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

Quote right. Common sense So what if you lost again?

I'd still think it's a mistake, I'd still try to convince people of that fact until we actually left, and then I'd try to convince them we should rejoin, even though we'd never get as good a deal as we have now."
The comedy gets better,what if we become the most successful nation in Europe,would you still want to go back?

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

No need if it's a two-question paper, since it also ratifies the exit route.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The reality is that the govts dallying has led to us almost certainly having to take part in the EU elections. This is something that should be avoided, but won’t be because politicians left right and centre are fucking clowns.

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

Quote right. Common sense So what if you lost again?"

Surely that would be the final desider ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

i'd ask the people at the hitachi train factory in your town if they would rather stay than leave, bearing in mind if it was for the huge EU regional development fund money they got, likelyhood being it would not be there..... YOu remoaners are getting sad and desparate these things happen anyway"

So are those in the North happy with the level of spending they get? UK and EU?

As I sensed many thought they were poorly done by compared to the South.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of there was a clearly defined version of leave which also was shown to be achievable (eg ratified by EU) then yes.

That is the vote isn't just what we are waking away from. But what we are waking to.

So mays deal. Yes. No deal. Yes.

Managed no deal. Only to the extent of any side deals agreed. No promises.

Article XXIV and ten year periods. No. As even if it is a legit argument (it isn't) it needs EU and WTO agreement.

The reason we're in the current mess is leave was never defined. And so when a version of leave delivered people say this isnt the version of leave they voted for. And we then have a mother debate on possible terms. And another round of polling. Only to see there are plenty of flavours and none carry a majority.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

The concept of the the EEC we joined in 1973, and then were presented with in the referendum of 1975, has no resemblance to what has transpired either.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The concept of the the EEC we joined in 1973, and then were presented with in the referendum of 1975, has no resemblance to what has transpired either."

The difference is the eec evolved.

the here argument is the version of brexit, on day one of brexit, wasn't defined clearly and therefore what was "promised" hasn't been delivered.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Because there should not be a second vote as leave won iscmy point I'd vote leave, I still want us to remain but democracy is worth more"

I keep hearing stuff like this. Why does having more democracy somehow threaten democracy?

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By *amelhunterMan over a year ago

newcastle

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one."

This

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The reality is that the govts dallying has led to us almost certainly having to take part in the EU elections. This is something that should be avoided, but won’t be because politicians left right and centre are fucking clowns.

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!"

But you voted for this shitfest. We were all told a billion times, this will be a shitfest. More people voted for the shitfest than against it. Now you’re complaining that you got the shitfest that you voted for!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left...

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left..."

No you openly willingly knowingly voted for a most predictable shit fest

You wanted to leave , but you voted for a shit fest ,

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By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left..."

Brexiteers only moan because we haven’t left like we were supposed to do on the 29/03/19 with or without a deal

Remainers moan constantly like spoilt children and have done everyday since they lost the referendum

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

[Removed by poster at 29/04/19 12:05:13]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left...

Brexiteers only moan because we haven’t left like we were supposed to do on the 29/03/19 with or without a deal

Remainers moan constantly like spoilt children and have done everyday since they lost the referendum "

Leave voters also moan that mays deal is brexit in name only. When it is clearly a form of leaving. Or argue against staying in the CU and all that it entails. Even though this is also leaving.

If all leavers got behind May's deal we'd be out by now. Which is all they wanted.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left...

Brexiteers only moan because we haven’t left like we were supposed to do on the 29/03/19 with or without a deal

Remainers moan constantly like spoilt children and have done everyday since they lost the referendum "

No , I dont moan I articulate daily why I'm confident a majority of people will be better remaining and not enduring endless arguing and negotiation of complex matters that the European tribes have spent hundreds of years negotiating

Not like a spoilt person , more like a person watching a bus full of children driving towards a cliff trying to persuade the driver to stop

No Brexit voter yet has given one valid reason why brexit is worth any suffering let alone the utter carnage that is only just beginning

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left..."

Do you have a triple digit IQ? If you have why are you in a shit job (your words)?

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By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"Because there should not be a second vote as leave won iscmy point I'd vote leave, I still want us to remain but democracy is worth more

I keep hearing stuff like this. Why does having more democracy somehow threaten democracy?"

Totally agree, if we can have elections more frequently than every 5 years (Mays attempt to get a greater majority) then a 2nd Referendum seems pretty democratic to me

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left...

Brexiteers only moan because we haven’t left like we were supposed to do on the 29/03/19 with or without a deal

Remainers moan constantly like spoilt children and have done everyday since they lost the referendum

Not like a spoilt person , more like a person watching a bus full of children driving towards a cliff trying to persuade the driver to stop

No Brexit voter yet has given one valid reason why brexit is worth any suffering let alone the utter carnage that is only just beginning"
Many already have . Leaving on WTO terms means lower prices for food and clothing which in turn helps the less well off in society. Why should the UK consumer pay more in order to protect other EU countries .

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

The concept of the the EEC we joined in 1973, and then were presented with in the referendum of 1975, has no resemblance to what has transpired either.

The difference is the eec evolved.

the here argument is the version of brexit, on day one of brexit, wasn't defined clearly and therefore what was "promised" hasn't been delivered."

The version of the EEC was not properly defined either.

Brexit will also evolve over time once we have left (although I have always said that the elite would find a way of keeping us in). If we do leave, I would have no problem with a rejoin referendum in 40 years time.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

There has been much discussion about the benefits of EU membership, and how it provides access to free trade. The argument, of course, is that if the UK were to leave the EU on WTO terms, this would be hugely damaging to UK PLC. Let’s explode this myth once and for all. Here are the real facts, explained in terms of hidden trade tariffs or tax on UK taxpayers, whichever your choice.

As you will see, being a member of the EU costs the majority of businesses and all UK taxpayers far more than were the UK to trade under WTO terms with the EU. I also put forward just a few policy ideas that would bring the benefit of leaving the EU to the masses, versus the benefit of remaining in the EU being hoarded by big business.

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

• Exporting businesses do not pay this 4.7%. The 30.3 million UK taxpayers do. At a rate of £429 per taxpayer. Effectively, UK PLC is paying a tariff of 4.7%, which is fully subsidised by the UK taxpayer.

This explains why big businesses do not wish to trade with the EU under WTO terms. The money they don’t pay in tariffs runs straight to the bottom line. This pays higher executive wages, bonuses, and share dividends. £13 billion of them.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Would WTO terms cost the UK more? We’ve already established that big business would have to pay more. But let’s squash the misconception that it would be any more expensive than current trade with the EU.

According to the WTO Schedule 2018, the average EU WTO tariff is just 2.8%. Effectively, therefore, the UK is paying EU contributions on its exports that are 70% higher than its trade tariffs would be under WTO rules.

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

Now, let’s examine the grants, subsidies, and other payments that the EU pays to the UK. In 2017, this was a total of £4 billion. Let’s consider these as a hidden tariff on its exports to the UK:

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

• The amount the EU ‘gives’ to the UK equates to £11.42 per taxpayer in the EU. That is just 3% of what the UK taxpayer pays for free trade in the opposite direction. (Though because the UK is a net contributor, it is the UK taxpayer who pays this.)

It’s going to get worse

In 2023/24, the UK is set to lose its rebate. This follows a proposal by the EU Commission that all rebates should be eliminated, to be phased out through to 2023/4. This was confirmed by the EU Budget Commissioner, Gunther Oettinger, in May 2018 (Reuters). Then:

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

The EU subsidies and grants to the UK are not earmarked to rise. Therefore, the EU taxpayer would now be paying just 2% of the amount that the UK taxpayer pays for free trade access. Except, of course, that it is the UK taxpayer who is paying.

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

Leaving under WTO rules, the UK would cease to pay its EU contribution. It would also collect tariffs from EU exporters. At an average of 2.8%, this would equate to £9.5 billion. The UK national finances from 2023/4 would therefore benefit from:

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

Effectively, because of EU membership the working and middle classes of the UK are subsidising UK businesses that export to the EU. To the tune of £429 per taxpayer, rising to £613 per taxpayer in 2023/4. This amount flows directly to the bottom line of exporting businesses, to pay higher bonuses to executives and higher dividends to shareholders.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ave 42Man over a year ago

pontefract

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend."

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend."

Very... I won't say clever, choice way of misinformation, that many will be taken in by the way half truths and certain sections of information aligned in a way to paint a load of rubbish.

Main examples...

The "gross" not net EU contribution "only" used and converted as a tarrif and then used as a fact that this false figure tarrif is paid by everyone compared to a WTO tarrif.

The WTO tarrif.. Average at 2.8% but that isn't across the board though, nope, only on certain sectors does this average 2.8% apply but this bullshit article does not mention this, it claims it as a across the board average.

Other sectors we trade in a lot is anywhere from 10% upto 35%

The rebate...

Changes to our rebate have to be unanimously agreed, that means the UK has to willingly agree to reduce or scrap it, if we say no then we keep it.

The talk about our rebate being stopped is only because we're supposed to be leaving but like everything else it's got twisted into a leave project fear lie.

So apart from the "entire foundations" of that article being bollocks, it was very informative and useful

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

So much wrong with this it’s beyond comprehension anyone would believe 5% of this.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

So much wrong with this it’s beyond comprehension anyone would believe 5% of this. "

Maybe one of them could guarantee it, its not like the rest of the fantasy stories have turned out to be just that...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

So much wrong with this it’s beyond comprehension anyone would believe 5% of this.

Maybe one of them could guarantee it, its not like the rest of the fantasy stories have turned out to be just that...

Has anybody else tried to research this chap? Seems he used to work for goldman sachs (hardly a recommendation) but left for unspecified reasons. The investment publishing house he is working for only give a very marginal profile of him which glosses over his leaving the bank by implying that he left for some conscience based issue. He likes to walk the high wire for entertainment and prefers to be called nick rather than his given name of nickolai. He seems to be an enthusiastic leaver who moved to the uk from Australia and speaks a load of tosh! Reminds me of the Murdoch! Cant say I have ever heard of him and from what I can make out he is a chancer who likes to conflate imaginary figures while forgetting how trans national business works. I wouldnt trust what he says!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oncupiscentTonyMan over a year ago

Kent

"According to the WTO Schedule 2018, the average EU WTO tariff is just 2.8%"

Mean mode or median?

...yeah exactly

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"According to the WTO Schedule 2018, the average EU WTO tariff is just 2.8%

Mean mode or median?

...yeah exactly

Yeah the average EU WTO tarrifs only 2.8%...... if you don't factor in the 10%'s 30%'s & the 35%'s

Utter Utter fucking bollocks as usual

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one..The benefits are endless . To date no one is able to explain how being a member of the EU can possibly help the UK.

The EU is a great organisation if you are a net beneficiary and have no sense of shame about being subsidised by other countries .

Assuming we can leave without a deal the prices of both food and clothing will drop which in turn will help the less well off in society.

Leaving without a deal means that once this happens the EU will become desperate to negotiate deals with us and we can demand very favourable terms. "

You missed out the bit about 'the UK holding all the cards'. LOL

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So we're still at this stage

No Brexit voter yet has given one valid reason why brexit is worth any suffering let alone the utter carnage that is only just beginning "

Only been 3 years I suppose

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You missed out the bit about 'the UK holding all the cards'. LOL

We do hold all the cards... Just that the games Poker but we only have a Top Trump deck

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

In any second vote, Remain may not even be an option on the ballot paper. Many will argue that only various Leave scenarios will be the options available to vote on.

I used to think that.

Now I think differently.

If I am offered a vote in which the only choice is to leave the EU, then I am not going to cast a vote for any such option, since it would be endorsing a choice I do not agree with.

Well that's just not completely true, is it?

During the referendum the Leave campaigned promised that we would Leave the EU with a better trade deal than we currently had, because we would hold all the cards. And 80% of the people who voted in the general election voted for the two main parties who both said in their manifesto that we would leave with a deal. At no point, either during the referendum or the following campaign did any major organisation campaign or say we would leave without a deal.

As leaving without a deal was never put forward either by the Leave campaign during the referendum, nor by any of the main parties in the following elections how could anyone have possibly voted for it?

And if you personally voted in the referendum to Leave without a deal, or any way in the following general election for that option then you really didn't know what you were voting for because voting leave without a deal wasn't an option to vote for ever.

Where is the mandate to leave the EU without a deal?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

But we haven't respected the result of the 1975 referendum if we're now leaving. We can only respect the 1975 result by remaining. Why is it OK to disregard the remain win of 67% in the first referendum but we can't change our minds about the second referendum's result of 52%?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left...

Brexiteers only moan because we haven’t left like we were supposed to do on the 29/03/19 with or without a deal

Remainers moan constantly like spoilt children and have done everyday since they lost the referendum "

Where on the referendum ballot paper, or even in any of the leave campaigns, did it say we would leave on 29.Mar.19?

And let's be clear, the only reason why we didn't leave on 29th March wasn't because of anything remainners have done. The reason why we didn't leave on 29th March was because moaning Leavers in parliament didn't want to respect the result of the referendum and leave with a deal.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

There is no electoral mandate for a hard Brexit.

In the 2016 referendum, Vote Leave described this as "silly" and "project fear".

In the 2017 General Election, both Labour and Conservative manifestos promised to leave with a deal.

There is no mandate for anything else.

The reason the UK is still a member is because those who claim to be the most vociferous supporters of Leave keep voting down the deal to leave. They are the ones keeping the UK in the EU.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ingdong11Man over a year ago

emsworth

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

Because its forty odd years ago , and the EU is nothing like the common market we voted to remain in ............utterly ridiculous comment .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected."

explain !? maybe in you eyes as a remainer a mistake in someone's other eyes it was correct.

think it's called Democrat system or not ?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left...

No you openly willingly knowingly voted for a most predictable shit fest

You wanted to leave , but you voted for a shit fest ,

"
I've got loads of toilet paper ready

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

Because its forty odd years ago , and the EU is nothing like the common market we voted to remain in ............utterly ridiculous comment ."

Imagine wanting to return to the 1970s. How peculiar.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend."
Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Anyone who works in or runs a business can see the significant benefits in leaving without a deal. It simply means that we are in a much stronger position to negotiate deals on terms that are preferential to us . We will still regard Europe as out friends _ they cannot afford to lose our business .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"I'd vote Remain again because it's the best thing for the country. The fact that the electorate made a mistake last time doesn't mean the mistake shouldn't be corrected.

explain !? maybe in you eyes as a remainer a mistake in someone's other eyes it was correct.

think it's called Democrat system or not ?"

Either as a leave voter you made a mistake and didn't know what you were voting for. Or it was undemocratic. It can't be both of those at the same time.

Either, you didn't know what you were voting for, because the bllot paper didn't give you any detail, and so you just pretended it meant whatever you wanted it to mean.

You knew you were all voting for different things and it was 'undemocratic' to lump them all together in a single 'leave' option and pretend they were the same thing.

Your choice.

-Matt

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Shame it doesn’t add up though!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Pat, you can keep changing your name every few weeks and creating a new profile, but it is plainly obvious from your head-in-the-sand drivel that it is still you.

-Matt

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On the clever maths...

Let's take his numbers as fact and argue his logic.

His cost benefit is based on the only value of the EU trade being the FTA. Even leave economists) Steve keen irrc) cite frictional costs as being higher than tariffs I don't have a number but these will swing the balance.

Let's say even with these, the costs still outweigh the benefit,he seems to suggest theres no consequence to demand if prices go up. Of course if out expitrs become more costly, the EU will look elsewhere to see if anyone will supply at a lower rate.

Now the UK makes us between 5% and 7% of most EU countries imports. Which isn't to much to source elsewhere so liklihood is our trade wil drop hitting our jobs and ripple through.

Now we import c 40% to 50% from EU. That's a lot to replace so we will likely have to suck up paying the tariffs.

And even if this isn't true, and we all see a drop of 10% say, our exports to the EU make up a greater % of our gdp than their imports to us make up of theirs. So our economy will be hit harder.

So he's made three assumptions I think are very dubious. And it only takes one to be false for the EU payment to look like a reasonable amount. Let alone if all three are false....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"On the clever maths...

Let's take his numbers as fact and argue his logic.

Now the UK makes us between 5% and 7% of most EU countries imports. Which isn't to much to source elsewhere so liklihood is our trade wil drop hitting our jobs and ripple through.

Now we import c 40% to 50% from EU. That's a lot to replace so we will likely have to suck up paying the tariffs.

And even if this isn't true, and we all see a drop of 10% say, our exports to the EU make up a greater % of our gdp than their imports to us make up of theirs. So our economy will be hit harder.

So he's made three assumptions I think are very dubious. And it only takes one to be false for the EU payment to look like a reasonable amount. Let alone if all three are false....

So your logic is that if our goods to them cost more, they'll go elsewhere......

But if their goods to us cost more, we'll just pay it anyway.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On the clever maths...

Let's take his numbers as fact and argue his logic.

Now the UK makes us between 5% and 7% of most EU countries imports. Which isn't to much to source elsewhere so liklihood is our trade wil drop hitting our jobs and ripple through.

Now we import c 40% to 50% from EU. That's a lot to replace so we will likely have to suck up paying the tariffs.

And even if this isn't true, and we all see a drop of 10% say, our exports to the EU make up a greater % of our gdp than their imports to us make up of theirs. So our economy will be hit harder.

So he's made three assumptions I think are very dubious. And it only takes one to be false for the EU payment to look like a reasonable amount. Let alone if all three are false....

So your logic is that if our goods to them cost more, they'll go elsewhere......

But if their goods to us cost more, we'll just pay it anyway."

It does depend. But at the very worst giving up 5‰ of stuff is easier than giving up 50‰. And that's what the alternative to paying more is

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Pat, you can keep changing your name every few weeks and creating a new profile, but it is plainly obvious from your head-in-the-sand drivel that it is still you.

-Matt"
I guess that the truth must hurt if you see the necessity to refer to another posters post as drivel.

Luckily this is an internet forum where keyboard warriors can post comments that they would not dare say to someone's face .

Can you imagine anyone walking up to someone in a pub and telling them that they were talking drivel.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Pat, you can keep changing your name every few weeks and creating a new profile, but it is plainly obvious from your head-in-the-sand drivel that it is still you.

-Matt I guess that the truth must hurt if you see the necessity to refer to another posters post as drivel.

Luckily this is an internet forum where keyboard warriors can post comments that they would not dare say to someone's face .

Can you imagine anyone walking up to someone in a pub and telling them that they were talking drivel.

If that person walked in the pub in a different disguise every week and pretended to be someone completely different whilst still being immediately recognisable, I am sure that they would expect to be called things much more expansive than talking drivel.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Pat, you can keep changing your name every few weeks and creating a new profile, but it is plainly obvious from your head-in-the-sand drivel that it is still you.

-Matt I guess that the truth must hurt if you see the necessity to refer to another posters post as drivel.

Luckily this is an internet forum where keyboard warriors can post comments that they would not dare say to someone's face .

Can you imagine anyone walking up to someone in a pub and telling them that they were talking drivel.

Yes.

-Matt

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

LOL, just incase you missed it...

Main examples why that entire post is pure rubbish ...

The "gross" not net EU contribution figure"only" used and converted as a tarrif and then used as a fact that this false figure tarrif is paid by everyone compared to a WTO tarrif.

Other sectors we trade in a lot is anywhere from 10% upto 35%

The rebate...

Changes to our rebate have to be unanimously agreed, that means the UK has to willingly agree to reduce or scrap it, if we say no then we keep it.

The talk about our rebate being stopped is only because we're supposed to be leaving but like everything else it's got twisted into a leave project fear lie.

So apart from the "entire foundations" of that article being bollocks, it was very informative and useful

Why flog a dead horse when everything has been de bunked and is pretty easy to research yourself.

Just repeating lies over and over will not turn them into truths Pat.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they fear the threat of the BREXIT Party winning this election, they are right to. Because it will prove to the world that Britain definitely wants out of this ridiculous shit fest.

#VOTE NIGE!

What a load of old bollocks!

I voted leave, we haven’t left, that is not what I voted for as anyone with a triple digit iq will be aware.

No leave voter voted to be kept in this limbo and having still not left..."

We were given all the information before the referendum. Voting leave will be chaos. Will have zero benefit for the UK, will cost billions of pounds a year and will take minimum of five years to sort out.

You're always claiming you knew what you were voting for.

So why are you moaning that you got what you voted for? The UK is leaving, as expected, slow and painfully with an epic bill and no benefits.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Pat, you can keep changing your name every few weeks and creating a new profile, but it is plainly obvious from your head-in-the-sand drivel that it is still you.

-Matt I guess that the truth must hurt if you see the necessity to refer to another posters post as drivel.

Luckily this is an internet forum where keyboard warriors can post comments that they would not dare say to someone's face .

Can you imagine anyone walking up to someone in a pub and telling them that they were talking drivel.

People go to a pub for a drink, not to disguise themselves.

No balanced person would walk into a pub , chip into a conversation and accuse someone of talking drivel.

Luckily most people prefer to concentrate on the positives in life, not the negatives .

My guess is that if someone is unable to make any positive contibution they simply refer to someone's point as drivel as they are incapable of communicating their point.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If certain people are constantly posting lies or twisting facts that are easily proved wrong over and over then I can fully understand others referring to them as posting drivel

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Opinion, knowledge and needs change and are never static - hence why we don't just have one election and then never vote again. It's facile to consider that a vote taken a long time ago, even if there was no new information later, would still represent the needs of people. Parents sometimes tell their children to only do X, not Y, because children don't have mature minds, capable of adult seasoning and perception - thankfully most people don't have development disorders, so are capable of evolving their thought processes, beyond a primary school child's level.

We know that the leave campaigns staff lied as well as broke the law - this should be enough for any sane person to doubt the actual result of several years ago.

We also know that no one knew what the actual EU exit deal would be, at the referendum 3 years ago. We now do. Today is therefore a time where people could vote based on an accurate perspective of what leaving really means. We know the nuts bolts of what it is, instead of the lies and fantasies of 3 years ago.

A referendum today would therefore be of higher quality and value, to help inform parliament of the countrys opinion and expectations. These votes are only advisory - they are not commands or orders that the government must then fulfil. Those representatives are to be expected to be more expert and to have to create the necessary laws etc, to make something - the right thing for the country - actually happen.

We have fixed term parliaments and Theresa Mays earlier election 2 years ago, also showed how public needs altered.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Brexiteers would still lie through their teeth and people would believe them.

The mainstream media has printed wild lies about the EU for so long now that a hell of a lot of people are fully conditioned into seeing a printed headline and taking it as God's own truth.

The UK needs to leave and reap whatever consequences comes our way now to finish this once and for ever now.

The UK needs to position it's self for the rewards Brexiteers promissed by leaving or get the cold hard light of day shone on the bullshit for what it really is once and for all.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend."

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so."

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Well we voted to be in Europe in 70s, out in 2016....best of 3

Let me see then we respected a vote in the 70s but we can’t respect a vote from 2016

Because its forty odd years ago , and the EU is nothing like the common market we voted to remain in ............utterly ridiculous comment ."

Total rubbish. The EEC was never just a Free Trade deal, we actually joined EFTA (European Free Trade Area) in 1960. Joining the Common Market was always more than just joining a free trade block. It always was about pooling sovereignty not only in economic matters but in political matters too. The actual issues where discussed extensively and truthfully in 1975 referendum. If you think not then try listening to some of the speeches given by Benn, Shore, Foot and Enoch Powell at the time. When given the truth the generation that actually fought for a free, Democratic Europe voted overwhelmingly by 67% to remain. They new fullwell what they were voting for and what they voted for overwhelmingly is exactly what we have now. Unlike there kids born in the 50s & 60s who never fought for anything in there lives and there only real connection with the wars for a free Democratic Europe is a few episodes of Garrison's Gorillas and maybe a couple of times watching Eagles' Dare, and clearly didn't know what they were voting for because they keep saying they voted to leave without a deal when that was never on offer in the referendum or the general election that followed.

What should decide whether we have a 3rd referendum is not the amount of time that has elapsed since the but whether the mandate from the referendum is being delivered. The mandate from the 1975 referendum was being delivered so there was no requirement for the second referendum in 2016. The mandate from the 2016 referendum (leaving the EU with a trade deal better than we currently have) is not being delivered by either Leaving with no deal, leaving with a bad deal or not leaving at all. Therefore, for either of those three options, we need a 3rd referendum to have a mandate for any.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Pat, you can keep changing your name every few weeks and creating a new profile, but it is plainly obvious from your head-in-the-sand drivel that it is still you.

-Matt I guess that the truth must hurt if you see the necessity to refer to another posters post as drivel.

Luckily this is an internet forum where keyboard warriors can post comments that they would not dare say to someone's face .

Can you imagine anyone walking up to someone in a pub and telling them that they were talking drivel.

I often do when they are. Just as they're entitled to have and express opinions that I believe to be total drivel without having to worry about what might happen to them for holding those beliefs, I, or any one else, are entitled to hold and express the opinion that what their saying is total drivel without having to worry about what may happen to them either. Aren't they?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Nah, talking lefty liberal bullshit is lefty liberal. Remoaners seem to spend their entire lives on the internet posting bollocks. That is why you can search anywhere and that is mostly what you will find. Its worse than wickipedia, crackpot excuse for logic dressed up as the truth.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Sounds very much like you're afraid of the truth

afraid you might have to at least privately admit to yourself you've been conned

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *umblefunMan over a year ago

London/ South East

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please"

Exactly this. Democracy is more important than in or out!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I voted remain but if I'm forced to vote again I will vote to leave as I was raised to respect votes and leave won so we leave, opinions please

Exactly this. Democracy is more important than in or out!"

Very true, I do believe we should leave but it'd still be good to know what's meant to be so good about doing so

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

How do you work out that it is factual?

It is a series of assumptions that are generated from a false start line.

You cannot possibly have voted for these assumptions because not a single Brexiter EVER stated that we would have anything other than a better free trade deal that we have at the moment.

The so called Brexit dividend referred to in this article talks about collecting WTO tariffs from EU exporters. This was never mentioned at any time by any champion of Brexit - in fact the argument as I recall was put eloquently by Top Brexiter Daniel Hannan

“No-one is questioning our place in the Single Market for goodness sake”

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market

Daniel Hannan MEP

Only a madman would actually leave the Market

Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer

And when you remember that Norway are in the Single Market but not the EU, it makes these quotes quite awkward reading.

Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing

Nigel Farage, Ukip leader

The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people

Matthew Elliot, Vote Leave chief executive

Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK

Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

Those messages make uncomfortable reading when you look at the post-referendum discussion of what Britons voted for on June 23.

Farage himself said less than two months after the poll that remaining in the Single Market would be a “betrayal” of the 17.4 million people who voted for Brexit.

#NOIDEAWHATTHEFUCKWEWANT

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

"
. Maybe people have already completed their detailed research and concluded that the article is correct.If someone wanted to they could trace the source of all the information.

Just because someone has a different intepretation of facts does not mean it is wrong.

If my choice is between accepting the views of highly successfull leaders of business such as Tim Martin, Dyson , the Chairman of Next or John Caudwell or those members who spend all their spare time ( some of which appears to be during working hours ) posting on here it is a foregone conclusion as to whose views I would prefer to accept.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend. Hi. This is the best post that I have seen on the forum to date .

Sounds like your fantasy at work. The terms and trade deals that we have invested in and secured by our EU membership, are much more attractive. Also running a business in a stronger UK economy, where fewer businesses have quit, to overseas, where their operations take UK staff and all the tax income, is better for here.

Some things are just common sense. When you clearly have an opportunity to reevaluate, you do. When you can learn from what you have done poorly, you grasp it. And when you can reverse a choice that's too expensive without penalty, you'd be mad not to. Brexit has cost £billions but we're still in the EU and can continue with the same membership deal, despite some politicians and voters who did once want out. There's no sense in going after a fantasy, however strong the opinion once was, just because of human bias towards finishing something that had a social pressure behind it. Humans have prospered due to eagerness to learn and improve - the UK civilization has a need to thrive, rather than perish, due to blind stubborn following of a pied piper.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

Look around the world and trade between countries diminishes with distance and increases with proximity.

Consequently, countries enter into trade agreements with those closest to them.

The UK has opted to turn its back on the largest free market in the world on its own doorstep in favour of . . . what exactly?

Trade barriers with the rest of the world.

This idea the UK is about to forge some new global order in free trade is completely bonkers.

We're going from the premier league of trading blocs to the second division, basically.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The UK has opted to turn its back on the largest free market in the world on its own doorstep in favour of . . . what exactly?

Far far less free trade

Tariffs upto 35%

Stopping that unnamed foreign country running us

What's not to be pleased about that eh

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I didn't deny any of the "facts". I simply disagreed with his analysis as I believe it was at best incomplete. You can argue my argumenta if you wish. But in dismissing them as simply being a denial simply because I am left leaning and doesn't fit your view is ironically the very crime you accuse leavers are.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before. "

The question wasn't why did you vote leave...it was...

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better".

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before. "

It would be very interesting to know when this maths was published, as it seems awfully convenient that it is available now, three years after the referendum took place. Perhaps its another case of adapting the figures to suit ones dogma with the benefit of hindsight.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before.

I'm struggling to find the article despite knowing the author and his publishing house!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before.

The question wasn't why did you vote leave...it was...

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better"."

Peacehavwn said it was precisely why we voted leave. I was responding to his post.

I agree it's an argument for leaving. IMO it isn't strong and is slightly suspect given the three places I disagree. But it is an argument and one which made me think.so appreciate you sharing.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before.

The question wasn't why did you vote leave...it was...

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better"."

OK but if the assumptions at the heart of any single (or multiple) arguments is/are false then the argument becomes meaningless.

The assumption here is that the “gross” contributions to the EU are solely to pay for free trade. Ergo that the money being spent, need not be spent.

This is patently false because the net money being spent to the EU has already been committed at least twice over to various U.K. Agencies such as DEFRA, HMRC, U.K. Border Force and the CAA as well as to farming, fishing and energy bodies to protect them from the loss of EU funding. EU funding is about shared governance, shared authority and shared regulatory bodies.

The money is going to be spent (and more) without any benefit here in the U.K. - it has nothing to do with trade.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better. Just one.

This

From Nick Hubble at Capital and Conflict:

Explaining the real cost of EU membership

Let’s look at exports and imports

In 2017, the UK exported £275 billion of goods to the EU. The EU exported £341 billion to the UK (ONS):

• The UK pays a gross contribution of £13 billion to the EU

• This means that for every £1 of exports, the UK pays 4.7p by way of its gross EU contribution. A hidden trade tariff of 4.7%.

What if the UK traded on WTO terms with the EU?

Makes you think, doesn’t it. However, it gets worse.

How much does the EU pay the UK for free trade?

• This means that for every £1 of EU goods exported to the UK, there is a hidden tariff of 1.2p. A quarter of what the UK pays for free trade with the EU

• Less than half what the EU would pay under average EU tariff terms

It’s going to get worse

• The UK’s EU contribution will rise to £18.6 billion

• This is equivalent to a hidden tariff of 6.8p per £1 of exports

• At 6.8%, this hidden tariff is 142% higher than countries trading on WTO terms with the EU would pay on average

• In terms of how much this would cost the taxpayer - £613 per taxpayer in the UK

And, of course, the UK’s exporting businesses, mostly big business, do not want to pay this amount. They want this 6.8% to flow right through to the pockets of their executive sand shareholders.

Would the UK be better off under WTO rules?

• £18.6 billion that it no longer pays to the EU

• £9.5 billion that it collects in tariffs from the EU

This is a total of £28.4 billion. Put another way, £937 per taxpayer.

How could this wealth be redistributed – the Brexit Dividend

There are several ways in which this annual financial benefit could be redistributed. These include the following:

• Increase the minimum wage, and reduce corporation tax to compensate for the extra cost burden on UK PLC

• Increase personal tax allowances by, say, £2,000 – this would take many workers out of tax, helping the lowest paid the most. The cost to the Treasury would be £400 per taxpayer

• Scrap the VAT on domestic energy bills. This would save every household an average of £70 per year

• Spend an extra £5 billion to £8 billion on key services such as the NHS

In summary

Only around 5% of UK businesses export to the EU. It is these who are seeing the financial benefit of EU membership.

It is time that the UK taxpayer was made fully aware of this, and that firm policies to allow all to benefit from the Brexit Dividend were put in place.

Time to leave the EU on WTO, and reap the Brexit Dividend.

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

Its also interesting this is why leave voters voted leave. I've never seen this maths before.

The question wasn't why did you vote leave...it was...

"I would just like one single argument to leave that will make uk better".

OK but if the assumptions at the heart of any single (or multiple) arguments is/are false then the argument becomes meaningless.

The assumption here is that the “gross” contributions to the EU are solely to pay for free trade. Ergo that the money being spent, need not be spent.

The money is going to be spent (and more) without any benefit here in the U.K. - it has nothing to do with trade."

The UK are having to set up its own regulatory bodies, therefore, a cost is incurred. You should see what Dexeu is costing every month!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Sounds very much like you're afraid of the truth

afraid you might have to at least privately admit to yourself you've been conned

We were conned, I have no problem admitting that. We were conned into believing that any of the mainstream political parties had any intention of respecting the result of our democratic referendum result, and delivering upon that result in leaving the EU. May is buying, even praying for time. Corbyn is evading the issue in an attempt to gain popularity on both sides. The libdems and greens have both vowed to scrap BREXIT completely.

The most frightening aspect is, that had we all known that May was going to spin it out this long, we might well have ended up with a terrorist sympathiser and anti Semite as pm, and a Home Secretary who is so thick she can’t even count her own fingers.

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit."

The thing is, leavers quote a load of bullshit that is either twisted information or just lies, or as is in this case both and when someone points this out point for point and why it's lies and twisted information, leavers will not even have a look for themselves to realise what's being said is bullshit and lies, they just blindly believe what fits the narrative they have been conned into believing.

In this case, the 3 main points that is meant to underpin the entire argument that WTO is better is just plainly wrong.

It's like saying

2 + 2 = 5

7 - 3 = 8

6 x 4 = 56

Then God forbid when a "remoaner" tells you the sums are wrong and you'd better go check it out yourself we're told we don't know how to use a calculator as good as the knobhead who's wrote the bullshit article.

It's simpley that stupid.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not even as if it's a difference of opinions, it isn't, it's a plain issue of facts regarding that article.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Sounds very much like you're afraid of the truth

afraid you might have to at least privately admit to yourself you've been conned

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit."

Well if you're so enlightened maybe you can tell us all whether the £13 billion mentioned is the gross amount we're, the nett amount with the rebate or the full nett amount with what we get in direct payments from the EU, because it makes a big difference to veracity of the rest of the article which amount it represents.

Also can you tell us how the figure of only 5% of UK businesses trade with the EU comes from because it seems uncredible to me that it's actually that low.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Sounds very much like you're afraid of the truth

afraid you might have to at least privately admit to yourself you've been conned

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit.

Also can you tell us how the figure of only 5% of UK businesses trade with the EU comes from because it seems uncredible to me that it's actually that low.

Fullfact say it's near impossible to calculate the amount but estimates between 6 & 11% depending on what assumptions are applied.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

All this factual information will be denied by the remoaners, but it is explaining very clearly and precisely why we voted leave and will not stop until it happens.

I've stated what is wrong about this "so called information" and it is all very easily looked up to be proven wrong as I have stated.

That load of bullshit has so many %%'s here and big numbers there that the gullible simply believe it because it fits their narrative.

Stop believing other people's word, stop following the pack and start to educate yourselves,it's not hard to do and it's free

What and start believing you and the lefty liberal bollocks you post? Oh and the links?? I don’t fucking think so.

Indeed, don't believe what I say, research yourself and open your eyes, you'll feel better for it.

I never realised only dealing with the truth was classed as "lefty Liberal"

Sounds very much like you're afraid of the truth

afraid you might have to at least privately admit to yourself you've been conned

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit.

Also can you tell us how the figure of only 5% of UK businesses trade with the EU comes from because it seems uncredible to me that it's actually that low.

Fullfact say it's near impossible to calculate the amount but estimates between 6 & 11% depending on what assumptions are applied."

So it's an unverified and unverifiable estimate then.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah but that's about as good as it's going to be.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Former head of WTO, Pascal Lamy claimed a no-deal Brexit would make “no sense” in a “world that is globalising and integrating”.

He urged the British government to strike an agreement to ensure there is continuity beyond March 29th, contradicting the vision of Brexiteers like Farage and Rees-Mogg, who want to end up on WTO rules.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit.

In this case, the 3 main points that is meant to underpin the entire argument that WTO is better is just plainly wrong.

It's like saying

2 + 2 = 5

7 - 3 = 8

6 x 4 = 56

It's simpley that stupid.

Are you attempting to mimic the mathematic skills of Dianne Abbot in your pathetic post?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ethnmelvCouple over a year ago

Cardiff

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit.

In this case, the 3 main points that is meant to underpin the entire argument that WTO is better is just plainly wrong.

It's like saying

2 + 2 = 5

7 - 3 = 8

6 x 4 = 56

It's simpley that stupid.

Are you attempting to mimic the mathematic skills of Dianne Abbot in your pathetic post?"

Didn’t we agree on another thread, supported by your view that we’ve all been conned (above), that due to lies during the Brexit Referendum it should be declared null and void?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We were conned alright, we were all conned, and so were remoan. You lot still think you have all the answers, yet like mushrooms you are still in the dark being fed in shit.

In this case, the 3 main points that is meant to underpin the entire argument that WTO is better is just plainly wrong.

It's like saying

2 + 2 = 5

7 - 3 = 8

6 x 4 = 56

It's simpley that stupid.

Are you attempting to mimic the mathematic skills of Dianne Abbot in your pathetic post?"

No mate, just stating the truth.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You're correct about the pathetic part peacy, it's pathetic I actually need to point something so blatantly obvious out to you and yet you still can't grasp it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Debating with a brexiteer is like debating with a Christian. There is no proof of god but they still cling on....there is no unicorn coming for brexiteers!!!

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

[Removed by poster at 01/05/19 07:31:59]

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"Debating with a brexiteer is like debating with a Christian. There is no proof of god but they still cling on....there is no unicorn coming for brexiteers!!!"

Why single out christians, or don't you have any probkems with other religions?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Debating with a brexiteer is like debating with a Christian. There is no proof of god but they still cling on....there is no unicorn coming for brexiteers!!!

Why single out christians, or don't you have any probkems with other religions?"

Any religious fanatical will do as a good comparison, infact anyone that refuses to accept logic and fact.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Vote remain!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Vote leave!

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