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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It wil be an intetesting day in spain today as it is election, the far right party vox could win first seats in parliament in decades, how do you think it will go and the results? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The thought of the far right making any sort of comeback in Spain - even if only as a counter-reaction to Catalan separatists - turns my stomach.
Just read the story of Neus Català, the most recent Spanish survivor of a Nazi concentration camp to pass away.
It's estimated about 10,000 Spaniards associated with the republican side went to Nazi concentration camps.
I was in Valencia in February, and the bomb sites and shelling by the Italian Navy is still very very visible - a horrible reminder of fascism at work.
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Just spent the last week listening to the cars with loudspeakers extolling their candidates going round in Malaga and Cádiz Provence. There is a lot of Vox posters and graffiti about that’s for sure.
Their are a lot of disenfranchised people in that corner of the world. It’s a new transit point into Europe for immigrants now the Libya one is tightened up. Coupled with low youth employment you can see why the far right is taking advantage of it.
Nobody listens to people’s concerns and people are demonised for voicing them. Along comes a Political party who say they are and it’s no wonder they are popular.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I bought a Rolex on the beach once and it's still ticking away,never got it wet though.
God bless the looky looky's .May they continue to roam the Andalusian coast. after this election  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Populism is always a good political career choice till you get actual power - I cannot see how Vox can deliver on their promises given how interconnected the world is. |
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"Vox will make great gains ...another Spain is Spain party ...the Spanish want to be Spanish not eu ....sounds familiar to me"
Vox is pro EU actually, but dont let the facts get in the way whatever you do  |
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"Exit polls suggesting the socialists will be largest party.
Vox polling on 12 per cent appears to be doing a UKIP to the Conservatives."
Vox won 24 seats. Their progress has been at the expense of other right wing parties rather than from winning against the left. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I hope the result leads to a political solution over Catalonia.
The right, especially the far right, wanted an authoritarian crackdown, and they have splintered the vote.
Catalonia may turn out to be Spain's Brexit, though - an intractable, divisive mess that consumes the country's governance. |
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The real worry is that a Country like Spain who post Franco turned their back on the Right now sees an unheard of rise in this sort of thing.
A story that is being repeated across Europe. It’s not a fringe anymore and it’s becoming more popular each Election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The real worry is that a Country like Spain who post Franco turned their back on the Right now sees an unheard of rise in this sort of thing.
A story that is being repeated across Europe. It’s not a fringe anymore and it’s becoming more popular each Election. "
The people always get the politicians they deserve.You have nothing to fear.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Vox will make great gains ...another Spain is Spain party ...the Spanish want to be Spanish not eu ....sounds familiar to me"
You seem to gloat in the rise of Nationalism in Europe. Why is that? Do you not realise that Nationalism invariably leads to the reopening of old neighbourly disputes and all of the bad things that come from that?
There is NOTHING to be happy about the rise of Nationalism in Europe. There are still many people harbouring both real and imagined grievances. |
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"Vox will make great gains ...another Spain is Spain party ...the Spanish want to be Spanish not eu ....sounds familiar to me
You seem to gloat in the rise of Nationalism in Europe. Why is that? Do you not realise that Nationalism invariably leads to the reopening of old neighbourly disputes and all of the bad things that come from that?
There is NOTHING to be happy about the rise of Nationalism in Europe. There are still many people harbouring both real and imagined grievances. "
To be fair his analysis is completely wrong. He clearly hasn't the first idea what Vox stand for nor has he any clue about the actual outcome of the election. Vox is simply hoovering up votes from other right wing parties. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It's called Brexitis.
The symptoms are viewing events in Europe through the red, white and blue tinted spectacles of Captain Manwaring.
The inability to comprehend factors other than those in their little Union Jack bubble.
Is it any wonder they were so crap at trans-national politics and diplomacy in Europe when they completely fail to understand other cultures and outlooks? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either."
If your going to quite facts, then you should do some research or know your History!
WW1 started because Crown Prince Ferdinand of Austria was murdered by Serbs in Sarajevo! Serbia was backed by Russia and Austria by Germany! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Utterly false! Typical mainstream history bullturrds.... ww1 started because a bloke called archie duke shot an ostrich 'cos he was hungry....(private baldrick) |
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"Vox will make great gains ...another Spain is Spain party ...the Spanish want to be Spanish not eu ....sounds familiar to me
You seem to gloat in the rise of Nationalism in Europe. Why is that? Do you not realise that Nationalism invariably leads to the reopening of old neighbourly disputes and all of the bad things that come from that?
There is NOTHING to be happy about the rise of Nationalism in Europe. There are still many people harbouring both real and imagined grievances. "
.
You are melodramatic.
People are entitled to be nationalistic, just as somebody is entitled to be religious or an internationalist, personally I don't think anything good will come from the identitarianism movement but it's not exactly devil worshipping. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either."
That's true for civic nationalism.
Populism is a more dangerous beast.
Especially when it arises from perceived national humiliation.
The alliances of nations did not start WW1. It was what escalated it, with nations piling in along side their chums. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either.
That's true for civic nationalism.
Populism is a more dangerous beast.
Especially when it arises from perceived national humiliation.
The alliances of nations did not start WW1. It was what escalated it, with nations piling in along side their chums."
If only it was that straight forward,the reasons are very complex.A few sentences cannot be used to analys these events. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Germany knows a thing or two about national humiliation.
It was the sense of grievance about WW1 reparations that propelled Hitler forward.
Merkel has been very very careful in her dealings with Brexit to avoid any perception in the UK of humiliation by the EU.
She knows how dangerous that can be.
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"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either.
That's true for civic nationalism.
Populism is a more dangerous beast.
Especially when it arises from perceived national humiliation.
The alliances of nations did not start WW1. It was what escalated it, with nations piling in along side their chums.If only it was that straight forward,the reasons are very complex.A few sentences cannot be used to analys these events."
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Well said, apparently there against simplified jingoistic answers for populism but then do exactly that when it suits there narrative. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either.
If your going to quite facts, then you should do some research or know your History!
WW1 started because Crown Prince Ferdinand of Austria was murdered by Serbs in Sarajevo! Serbia was backed by Russia and Austria by Germany!"
And how many other countries got sucked in because of international alliances? More than just two as well you know. That is why it was a WORLD war. How did we become involved? Because we had an age old alliance with Belgium... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either.
If your going to quite facts, then you should do some research or know your History!
WW1 started because Crown Prince Ferdinand of Austria was murdered by Serbs in Sarajevo! Serbia was backed by Russia and Austria by Germany!
And how many other countries got sucked in because of international alliances? More than just two as well you know. That is why it was a WORLD war. How did we become involved? Because we had an age old alliance with Belgium..."
Hmmm....so let’s think a bit about that....since the end of the Second World War, we have been involved in regular small wars because of our international alliances....Iraq and Afghan being the most recent and most visible examples....neither of which made sense strategically for the UK. Saddam after all was once our man in the Middle East and a buffer against the spread of the Iranian revolution. Afghanistan was even more of a mess with the CIA funding the Peshmerga during the Russian invasion and then finding their local allies turned against them when the Russians retreated from their own personal Vietnam (only to find themselves in the war of attrition closer to home in Chechnya). Ronnie raygun changed the ethos of the CIA into a high tech hands off satellite based system and there is a view that if he had kept operatives on the ground in these far flung places then some of these wars may not have happened. The trouble is that training spies and keeping them on point is expensive and requires a high level of skill and dedication which when compared to sending in the grunts and keeping the war machine going looks less attractive to the powers that be, not to mention hostages being taken and the embarrassment they cause governments.
Hope this isn’t too rambly but the cat has just spent the last 15 minutes chasing a mouse it brought in around the bedroom and woken me right up....bloody pets eh |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Vox will make great gains ...another Spain is Spain party ...the Spanish want to be Spanish not eu ....sounds familiar to me"
Sorry to burst your Europhobic bubble, but the election was one by a party whose policy is to support further European integration.
The Catalan independents won more seats than your beloved Vox.
And Spain now holds the European presidency.
Viva y Espana! |
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"Nationalism is no more likely to cause war and conflict than internationalism. Let’s face facts. It was the alliance of nations on either side that led to WW1, and the treatment of Germany after WW1 that led to WW2.
Had we all just kept ourselves to ourselves in the first place, two entire generations might well have not been needlessly killed. Hitler would never have made chancellor either.
If your going to quite facts, then you should do some research or know your History!
WW1 started because Crown Prince Ferdinand of Austria was murdered by Serbs in Sarajevo! Serbia was backed by Russia and Austria by Germany!"
Actually, this was the trigger and not the cause. The cause was the rise of irretractable alliances.... |
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