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Selfishness
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting? |
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Nope.
It keepsme entertained as most politicians are showing their true colours....a bunch of dithering, self centred wasters who are lost when there is a non party political issue to deal with, which is turned into a partisan issue. |
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It makes me sad too actually.
I know they’ll deny it, but it’s my honest opinion that most leavers voted that way mainly because they heard somebody speaking foreign on a bus
And... if there’s another referendum (I hope there is by the way), all of that immigration business will resurface.
Sigh..... |
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"It makes me sad too actually.
I know they’ll deny it, but it’s my honest opinion that most leavers voted that way mainly because they heard somebody speaking foreign on a bus
And... if there’s another referendum (I hope there is by the way), all of that immigration business will resurface.
Sigh....."
I fear that you are right, another referendum would continue to eat away at the cracks rather than unite. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?"
I was like that for about 3 days after the referendum.
A state of shock, really.
Then I heard "Que Sera Sera" by Doris Day.
I keep playing it in my head - it's what keeps me sane.
 |
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"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. "
It all comes down to personal experiences in life , and where you live , and what makes you the way you are . Not everybody voted Leave for the same reasons . |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I just wish they'd make a decision. After all that's what we pay them to do.
Everyone wants a "win", some will take a "draw" but no one wants to be seen as suffering a "loss"! "
So its like playing monopoly long boring frustrating and not much fun then!
The real problem is that the tory party have been living in a parallel universe for the past ten years giving people who are patently inadequate jobs of influence and power because they lack any real big thinkers with the common touch these days. The triumph of the old etonians has been their most desperate mistake as cameron, bojo, etc proves. There are very few conservatives who I could imagine voting for; Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry (no longer an option), Oliver Letwin and thats about it. The tories have kept us all in austerity for ten years while racking up the national debt and then making the country ungovernable because of party infighting. They are morally bankrupt and if they were a real world business would be financially bankrupt too and yet the public still trusts their leadership! Bring back spitting image and put the twats in their place! |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
What makes me sad is hearing MP's ask questions to already answered questions than make statements of running down the clock.
What makes me sad is that parliament crossed the house divide on Brexit and Remain, but is now in a party political opposition on honouring the result.
What makes me sad most of all is political rhetoric made out to be facts when they are opinion only. Said so many times they have created a climate within themselves rather than any clarity to what is happening. Things like threat, chaos, disarray, botched, can-down-the-road.
I realise there is repeat brexit is brexit, leave means leave, deal or no deal but there is a distinct difference in the tone and hype of the oppositions language.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. It all comes down to personal experiences in life , and where you live , and what makes you the way you are . Not everybody voted Leave for the same reasons ."
For sure, and loads of leave voters aren’t any of the above. But the leave campaign was so disgusting, blatantly spreading lies about the E.U. making false claims about the amount of money we pay to be a member. And race played a massive role in their campaign, posters of brown people were used to fuel people’s unfounded fears of immigration.
I was shocked at how many people bought into it. And even more shocking that people still believe it. |
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"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. It all comes down to personal experiences in life , and where you live , and what makes you the way you are . Not everybody voted Leave for the same reasons .
For sure, and loads of leave voters aren’t any of the above. But the leave campaign was so disgusting, blatantly spreading lies about the E.U. making false claims about the amount of money we pay to be a member. And race played a massive role in their campaign, posters of brown people were used to fuel people’s unfounded fears of immigration.
I was shocked at how many people bought into it. And even more shocking that people still believe it."
So is immigration not an issue at all in this country ?? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. It all comes down to personal experiences in life , and where you live , and what makes you the way you are . Not everybody voted Leave for the same reasons .
For sure, and loads of leave voters aren’t any of the above. But the leave campaign was so disgusting, blatantly spreading lies about the E.U. making false claims about the amount of money we pay to be a member. And race played a massive role in their campaign, posters of brown people were used to fuel people’s unfounded fears of immigration.
I was shocked at how many people bought into it. And even more shocking that people still believe it.So is immigration not an issue at all in this country ?? "
Not really, no.
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. It all comes down to personal experiences in life , and where you live , and what makes you the way you are . Not everybody voted Leave for the same reasons .
For sure, and loads of leave voters aren’t any of the above. But the leave campaign was so disgusting, blatantly spreading lies about the E.U. making false claims about the amount of money we pay to be a member. And race played a massive role in their campaign, posters of brown people were used to fuel people’s unfounded fears of immigration.
I was shocked at how many people bought into it. And even more shocking that people still believe it.So is immigration not an issue at all in this country ?? "
Pretty much. It’s a very minor issue, way down near the bottom of the pile, somewhere between the colour of the passports and what to rename the “London railway” station to.
Bear in mind that immigration has a net positive impact on the uk economically, culturally, and with skill sets, (nurses etc).
The Daily Mail, Express, UKIP, The Tories and other right wingers use it as a tool to distract people from the real issues. And it’s been an extremely successful tactic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I just wish they'd make a decision. After all that's what we pay them to do.
Everyone wants a "win", some will take a "draw" but no one wants to be seen as suffering a "loss"!
So its like playing monopoly long boring frustrating and not much fun then!
The real problem is that the tory party have been living in a parallel universe for the past ten years giving people who are patently inadequate jobs of influence and power because they lack any real big thinkers with the common touch these days. The triumph of the old etonians has been their most desperate mistake as cameron, bojo, etc proves. There are very few conservatives who I could imagine voting for; Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry (no longer an option), Oliver Letwin and thats about it. The tories have kept us all in austerity for ten years while racking up the national debt and then making the country ungovernable because of party infighting. They are morally bankrupt and if they were a real world business would be financially bankrupt too and yet the public still trusts their leadership! Bring back spitting image and put the twats in their place!"
Thanks for having a go "YET again", You people with left wing views are just to Anti Tory. OK OK I get it. Yawn....... I'm not very happy with some of them myself so my basic premise is for goodness sake make a ruddy decision. even if it's revoke Article 50 and join the Ruddy Euro tomorrow, yeah bring it on.......... or Leave with no deal...... just make a ruddy decision. My own personal preference is to have another referendum but I don't bang on and on about it or insist the original one is null and void. We are here now. 2.5 years on, Just make a decision. Have another referendum if that going to sort it........ or go softly softly Just make a decision and stop blitering and dithering around. |
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"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. It all comes down to personal experiences in life , and where you live , and what makes you the way you are . Not everybody voted Leave for the same reasons .
For sure, and loads of leave voters aren’t any of the above. But the leave campaign was so disgusting, blatantly spreading lies about the E.U. making false claims about the amount of money we pay to be a member. And race played a massive role in their campaign, posters of brown people were used to fuel people’s unfounded fears of immigration.
I was shocked at how many people bought into it. And even more shocking that people still believe it.So is immigration not an issue at all in this country ??
Not really, no.
-Matt"
Ok  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?"
It is selfishness.
It's believing that we will "do better", presumably for ourselves outside the EU.
Claiming that we "get back less than we put in" based purely on arithmetic without accounting for the financial benefits in increased trade, social benefits of ease of relocation and meeting and living amongst what we're once "foreigners". Amongst other things.
Not wanting to see that richer countries funding development in poorer ones lead to a net benefit to everyone.
Pretwnding that being alone some how makes you stronger and more influential.
Not wanting to be "told what too do" even though 90% of the time we agree.
Finding someone else to blame for everything.
All selfish and lacking in personal responsibility.
So yes. Deeply sad that half the country feels this way. That said, I think this is generally how humanity is split. It's not just the UK. Those who only want to look after themselves and their tribe and those who have a more expansive view of "us".
It's the difference between those who guard the camp and those who go looking for new resources.
Both personality types are vital for success. The tragedy is when they are deliberately and cynically divided. No good can come of it as we will lack the full skill set needed for success. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Nope.
It keepsme entertained as most politicians are showing their true colours....a bunch of dithering, self centred wasters who are lost when there is a non party political issue to deal with, which is turned into a partisan issue."
|
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"100%
One of the worst things during the days after the referendum was the feeling that such a large proportion of people who live here are mean, ignorant or just so easily fooled by the standard fear mongering that the leave campaign employed. "
Surely most of the scaremongering is from Remain?
Have you read The Independent lately? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?
It is selfishness.
It's believing that we will "do better", presumably for ourselves outside the EU.
Claiming that we "get back less than we put in" based purely on arithmetic without accounting for the financial benefits in increased trade, social benefits of ease of relocation and meeting and living amongst what we're once "foreigners". Amongst other things.
Not wanting to see that richer countries funding development in poorer ones lead to a net benefit to everyone.
Pretwnding that being alone some how makes you stronger and more influential.
Not wanting to be "told what too do" even though 90% of the time we agree.
Finding someone else to blame for everything.
All selfish and lacking in personal responsibility.
So yes. Deeply sad that half the country feels this way. That said, I think this is generally how humanity is split. It's not just the UK. Those who only want to look after themselves and their tribe and those who have a more expansive view of "us".
It's the difference between those who guard the camp and those who go looking for new resources.
Both personality types are vital for success. The tragedy is when they are deliberately and cynically divided. No good can come of it as we will lack the full skill set needed for success. "
Interesting that you've decided that you'll speak for the half of the population that don't agree with you.
If you truly think that half the population are idiotic racists, that says more about you than it does them. |
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"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?"
Agreed - it feels like we are taking a step back. I cannot see why any right minded person would choose to leave. I’m not a genious, but it isn’t hard to see that everything points to being part of the EU. Leaving just seems to be a wet dream created by the Eton Mess for the Eton Mess  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
"
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit..."
More votes than remain got and both sides lied but as a typical remoner you twist everything my point is proved  |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit...More votes than remain got and both sides lied but as a typical remoner you twist everything my point is proved "
I think it was only the Leave campaigns that were shown to be actually telling porkie pies and illegally using social media. Is that twisting, or spotlighting the lies? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
"
What’s nasty and mean about remainers?
I notice you decided not to be nasty and for once didn’t call us “remoaners”. Not that I care what you think of me, or if anyone, but for someone who continuously insults other people, to complain about others being mean for no reason, well it seems silly. |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit..."
Out of interest, what lies did the remain campaign tell? |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit...
Out of interest, what lies did the remain campaign tell?"
Can’t actually think of any, nor did they get fined for cheating |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit..."
. Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave ."
Well that’s simply not true. The £350 million on the side of the bus. A lie.
There’s so many more, but this one is a good example. |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave ."
Well thats a load of bollox!  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?
It is selfishness.
It's believing that we will "do better", presumably for ourselves outside the EU.
Claiming that we "get back less than we put in" based purely on arithmetic without accounting for the financial benefits in increased trade, social benefits of ease of relocation and meeting and living amongst what we're once "foreigners". Amongst other things.
Not wanting to see that richer countries funding development in poorer ones lead to a net benefit to everyone.
Pretwnding that being alone some how makes you stronger and more influential.
Not wanting to be "told what too do" even though 90% of the time we agree.
Finding someone else to blame for everything.
All selfish and lacking in personal responsibility.
So yes. Deeply sad that half the country feels this way. That said, I think this is generally how humanity is split. It's not just the UK. Those who only want to look after themselves and their tribe and those who have a more expansive view of "us".
It's the difference between those who guard the camp and those who go looking for new resources.
Both personality types are vital for success. The tragedy is when they are deliberately and cynically divided. No good can come of it as we will lack the full skill set needed for success.
Interesting that you've decided that you'll speak for the half of the population that don't agree with you.
If you truly think that half the population are idiotic racists, that says more about you than it does them. "
I described the leave campaign. It was based on the interests of a narrow definition of "us" being better off.
I didn't say that anyone was idiotic or racist.
I said that there were two different personality types of equal importance for society to function correctly.
I said that it was sad that one half has been split from the other.
Why do you feel able to speak for me now? Doing just what you accused me of.
I see my self-interest in the widest possible definition of us. If everybody is us then I won't have any enemies.
How do you view the world? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave ."
Much of the information available was fictitious.
There was lies and there was constructive ambiguity. Destructive ambiguity as it turns out.
16 million people are allowed to not like the result. To make it difficult. To reverse it.
They are allowed to. It's not undemocratic. It's exactly the opposite.
Why would I accept that older people are better informed and wiser Pat? It's not true. The normal distribution still exists however old you are.
Is it because you read specialist publications? Which ones make you wiser? |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit...
Out of interest, what lies did the remain campaign tell?
Can’t actually think of any, nor did they get fined for cheating "
damn, I responded to the wrong post! THe one I meant to respond to was
"More votes than remain got and both sides lied but as a typical remoner you twist everything my point is proved "
But, your answer certainly is correct |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit..."
This is one particular line of argument that I don't have aot of time for.
Those who voted, voted. I don't think you can read what the rest of the electorate wanted nor does it make the result unsound. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?
Agreed - it feels like we are taking a step back. I cannot see why any right minded person would choose to leave. I’m not a genious, but it isn’t hard to see that everything points to being part of the EU. Leaving just seems to be a wet dream created by the Eton Mess for the Eton Mess "
EU law supports free movement of people, trade, services and capital. If a member state's own laws contradict any of these then EU law overrides the national law, hence the "taking our sovereignty" leavers complain about.
When the UK voted to join the EEC in 1973 it was only based on trade, not any of the other three things. Essentially we didn't sign up for most of what's happening, good or bad.
We have to accept EU law on movement of people, which irritates some Leavers.
The leavers wanting to take their sovereignity back apparently fail to notice our own government are just as incompetent and want the same sort of draconian laws. (e.g. UK have said they will keep the new EU laws on copyright that nobody except record/movie labels want) and the law I forget the name of that we brought in 2 years ago that gives a bunch of government agencies the right to your internet data for any reason.
These same people also haven't ever seemed to care that the UK is a tax haven for foreign companies, so I guess we dont care about corporate giants screwing over the people, but those poles, get em out! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What I find odd is that come General election time, candidates will come knocking at your door to try and win your vote, but it doesn't appear to have occured to any of our MP's to go and engage with the electorate to find out what WE want from brexit - which is largely why I feel that they are all completely out of touch with us all.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I find odd is that come General election time, candidates will come knocking at your door to try and win your vote, but it doesn't appear to have occured to any of our MP's to go and engage with the electorate to find out what WE want from brexit - which is largely why I feel that they are all completely out of touch with us all.
"
Well as someone who was initially a brexit supporter, most brexit voters don't understand anything beyond "I dont want no foreigners in my country, england good, other country bad".
It's embarassing how little of the consequences of leaving the EU people actually understand, and i've not once heard anyone have a reasonable argument for it other than some variation of 'get our sovereignity back'.
Maybe they are smart enough to realise that Jim the retired civil servant from basildon who thinks 'leave means leave' says nothing worth listening to |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave ."
With age comes wisdom? Hilarious. |
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"What I find odd is that come General election time, candidates will come knocking at your door to try and win your vote, but it doesn't appear to have occured to any of our MP's to go and engage with the electorate to find out what WE want from brexit - which is largely why I feel that they are all completely out of touch with us all.
Well as someone who was initially a brexit supporter, most brexit voters don't understand anything beyond "I dont want no foreigners in my country, england good, other country bad".
It's embarassing how little of the consequences of leaving the EU people actually understand, and i've not once heard anyone have a reasonable argument for it other than some variation of 'get our sovereignity back'.
Maybe they are smart enough to realise that Jim the retired civil servant from basildon who thinks 'leave means leave' says nothing worth listening to "
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?
Agreed - it feels like we are taking a step back. I cannot see why any right minded person would choose to leave. I’m not a genious, but it isn’t hard to see that everything points to being part of the EU. Leaving just seems to be a wet dream created by the Eton Mess for the Eton Mess
EU law supports free movement of people, trade, services and capital. If a member state's own laws contradict any of these then EU law overrides the national law, hence the "taking our sovereignty" leavers complain about.
When the UK voted to join the EEC in 1973 it was only based on trade, not any of the other three things. Essentially we didn't sign up for most of what's happening, good or bad.
We have to accept EU law on movement of people, which irritates some Leavers.
The leavers wanting to take their sovereignity back apparently fail to notice our own government are just as incompetent and want the same sort of draconian laws. (e.g. UK have said they will keep the new EU laws on copyright that nobody except record/movie labels want) and the law I forget the name of that we brought in 2 years ago that gives a bunch of government agencies the right to your internet data for any reason.
These same people also haven't ever seemed to care that the UK is a tax haven for foreign companies, so I guess we dont care about corporate giants screwing over the people, but those poles, get em out! "
I've posted this before about what we joined. It was never just trade. These are from the Treaty of Rome which we signed up to:
"ARTICLE 2
The Community shall have as its task, by establishing a common market and
progressively approximating the economic policies of Member States, to promote
throughout the Community a harmonious development of economic activities, a
continuous and balanced expansion, an increase in stability, an accelerated raising of the
standard of living and closer relations between the States belonging to it.
ARTICLE 3
For the purposes set out in Article 2, the activities of the Community shall include, as
provided in this Treaty and in accordance with the timetable set out therein
(a) the elimination, as between Member States, of customs duties and of quantitative
restrictions on the import and export of goods, and of all other measures having
equivalent effect;
(b) the establishment of a common customs tariff and of a common commercial
policy towards third countries;
(c) the abolition, as between Member States, of obstacles to freedom of movement for
persons, services and capital;
(d) the adoption of a common policy in the sphere of agriculture;
(e) the adoption of a common policy in the sphere of transport;
(f) the institution of a system ensuring that competition in the common market is not
distorted;
(g) the application of procedures by which the economic policies of Member States
can he co-ordinated and disequilibria in their balances of payments remedied;
(h) the approximation of the laws of Member States to the extent required for the
proper functioning of the common market;
(i) the creation of a European Social Fund in order to improve employment
opportunities for workers and to contribute to the raising of their standard of
living;
(j) the establishment of a European Investment Bank to facilitate the economic
expansion of the Community by opening up fresh resources;
(k) the association of the overseas countries and territories in order to increase trade
and to promote jointly economic and social development." |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
When the UK voted to join the EEC in 1973 it was only based on trade, not any of the other three things. Essentially we didn't sign up for most of what's happening, good or bad.
"
I keep hearing this argument.
It fails whenever you point out that every single treaty since 1973 was enthusiastically supported by the elected government of the UK, and ratified by the elected parliament.
Britain's status currently is on the inside, with a set of opt-outs.
We're trying to move to the outside, with a set of opt-ins.
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"So I was lying in bed this morning thinking about the state of the nation post the indicative votes debacle and I came to the conclusion that I hate brexit and the leave campaign because it was founded on selfish and mean spirited principles and that hasmade me angry and sad and at times bad too. Does anyone else feel like this? A straw poll of where we are atwould be quite interesting?"
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The leave vote was devoid of great intelligence but full of malevolence. Brexit would be good for a small number of people, some politicians were also in it to advance their careers. The significant impacts to millions of people,including Brits living or working overseas, wasn't of importance to that gang. You were played. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A compromise is the only logical conclusion, its the people in the middle which should drive this."
The difficulty in finding a compromise is that we don't have common values and common goals.
A more fundamental look at society is needed. |
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"The leave vote was devoid of great intelligence but full of malevolence. Brexit would be good for a small number of people, some politicians were also in it to advance their careers. The significant impacts to millions of people,including Brits living or working overseas, wasn't of importance to that gang. You were played."
why would people’s priority be brits living abroad ?
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave .
With age comes wisdom? Hilarious."
It certainly hasn't with you! Lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave .
With age comes wisdom? Hilarious."
It would be ususual for someone to go through life and not become better informed. The knowledge of a 20 year old will be vastly different to someone over 50. With age comes wisedom. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A compromise is the only logical conclusion, its the people in the middle which should drive this.
The difficulty in finding a compromise is that we don't have common values and common goals.
A more fundamental look at society is needed."
True but the majority are agreed we are not part of the extreme leave and remain groupings in general. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A compromise is the only logical conclusion, its the people in the middle which should drive this.
The difficulty in finding a compromise is that we don't have common values and common goals.
A more fundamental look at society is needed.
True but the majority are agreed we are not part of the extreme leave and remain groupings in general."
What’s “extreme remain”. Surely there is just “remain”.
But even outside of the extremes. There’s a huge gulf in values and what people want for society. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave .
With age comes wisdom? Hilarious. It would be ususual for someone to go through life and not become better informed. The knowledge of a 20 year old will be vastly different to someone over 50. With age comes wisedom. "
It would be nice to think so but you also have to factor in older people’s complacency and being too comfortable in ones environment - an enquiring and questioning mind keeps you young I find |
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"No it is the other way round,it is the remainers who are selfish,mean,nasty and vindictive to be polite about it.
They lost a democratic vote and will do anything to stop it being implemented.
Are we conveniently forgetting the electorate were cheated by and lied to by the Leave campaigns? Aswell as only 37% of the electorate voting for Brexit... . Every party presented their case during the referendum and the public voted based on the information available .
No one was lied to. Some people simply did not either like or accept the result and have done everything possible to make our exit from the EU as difficult as possible
If you accept that older people are better informed and wiser , the result was a substantial majority to leave .
With age comes wisdom? Hilarious. It would be ususual for someone to go through life and not become better informed. The knowledge of a 20 year old will be vastly different to someone over 50. With age comes wisedom. "
I think you mean experience. Wisdom is a far harder thing to attain. 85 year old drivers can have a lot of experience, but wisdom would allow them to stop driving. You cannot equate age to wisdom, intelligence, common sense or ‘smarts’. |
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