FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Second Referendum and Manifestos
Second Referendum and Manifestos
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Did any political party rule out a second referendum in teir manifesto?"
I’ve never read the UKIP manifesto, but assuming it has words as well as pictures, I assume theirs does. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’ve never read the UKIP manifesto, but assuming it has words as well as pictures, I assume theirs does. "
Actually theirs said that if the result of a referendum was close (and they lost) then the subject would not be closed and they would continue campaigning for a second and third referendum until there was a clear (overwhelming) majority for remaining in the EU. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’ve never read the UKIP manifesto, but assuming it has words as well as pictures, I assume theirs does.
Actually theirs said that if the result of a referendum was close (and they lost) then the subject would not be closed and they would continue campaigning for a second and third referendum until there was a clear (overwhelming) majority for remaining in the EU."
LOL  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We will see if the leave contingent have anything to say.
I also think that there is no manifesto promise that prevents a second referendum from being conducted.
Interesting."
Manifestos aren't worth the bog roll their written on anyway. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The debate about a second referendum in Scotland might give you some insight.
The nationalists accepted the result but reserved the right to pursue another vote if there was a material change in circumstances.
The 2016 EU referendum was a material change in circumstances, they argue, because a large feature of the 2014 vote in Scotland was the argument that Scotland would exit the EU as well as the UK if it voted Yes.
Has there been a material change in circumstances since the 2016 EU referendum.
Sure, we may all be a bit wiser about the consequences. But that's not really a material change, is it?
There is also the generally accepted argument that the issue put to referenda ought to be once in a generation.
How long is a generation?
It is defined in law in only one place - the Belfast Agreement.
In the event of a referendum on Irish unification, another ballot cannot take place before seven years have elapsed.
So a generational change is defined there are 7 years.
I can see the argument for putting Mrs May's deal versus No Deal back to the people, for the simple reason it has utterly stymied Parliament.
I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do, but it is quite feasible to to have a two-question paper:
A) Leave or Remain
B) Leave with the May deal or with no deal.
i.e. the answer to the first question determines whether the 2nd question comes into play or not.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The thing that really gets me about this whole brexit debacle is that had the referendum been mandatory it would have been declared null and void due to electoral malpractice. But because it was advisory the government can treat it as if in was mandatory and force brexit through even though by now everyone must know it is harmful to the UK and only the super rich are going to benefit from brexit. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"The debate about a second referendum in Scotland might give you some insight.
The nationalists accepted the result but reserved the right to pursue another vote if there was a material change in circumstances.
The 2016 EU referendum was a material change in circumstances, they argue, because a large feature of the 2014 vote in Scotland was the argument that Scotland would exit the EU as well as the UK if it voted Yes.
Has there been a material change in circumstances since the 2016 EU referendum.
Sure, we may all be a bit wiser about the consequences. But that's not really a material change, is it?
There is also the generally accepted argument that the issue put to referenda ought to be once in a generation.
How long is a generation?
It is defined in law in only one place - the Belfast Agreement.
In the event of a referendum on Irish unification, another ballot cannot take place before seven years have elapsed.
So a generational change is defined there are 7 years.
I can see the argument for putting Mrs May's deal versus No Deal back to the people, for the simple reason it has utterly stymied Parliament.
I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do, but it is quite feasible to to have a two-question paper:
A) Leave or Remain
B) Leave with the May deal or with no deal.
i.e. the answer to the first question determines whether the 2nd question comes into play or not.
"
Why once in a generation?
Who "generally" accepted this and when?
Switzerland has referenda regularly and can repeat the same question as long as there is enough support. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I can see the argument for putting Mrs May's deal versus No Deal back to the people, for the simple reason it has utterly stymied Parliament.
"
This would be absolute madness. The last referendum proved that voters are too easily swayed by photos of brown people walking through fields in Bulgaria or promises of magic non-existent money for the NHS, to be able to make a sane choice.
Putting the power to completely ruin the country for future generations should not happen again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If revoke article 50 or a 2nd referendum arnt in the top 3 of the options available thats voted for by MPS tonight then im going full on guy fawks (ok not literaly before anyone calls the plod haha).
But it seems no one is really dicussing these 2 options and seem they just want some sort of brexit at any cost.
Its almost like that 5.5 million petition to revoke article 50 meant nothing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If it goes 1 1 .do we have a 3rd ..then 4th until the mps get the result they want"
No you're absolutely right. Democracy should end now, we will stick with this shit show and Brexit and just "make the most" of being poor and living in a shithole country. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If it goes 1 1 .do we have a 3rd ..then 4th until the mps get the result they want"
Why don’t you ask that spiv JRM? He seems to be ready to fold or perhaps he has just been bought off by Tresemme? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If MPS get to vote on the prime ministers deal for a 3rd time and it finally passes as politicians change their minds it will be a complete and utter shit show.
So MPS are allowed to vote multple times and change their minds but god forbid they dont want the public to have a 2nd vote.
I voted brexit and now i want to revoke article 50 after 3 years and i see what brexit is (sort of). |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"If it goes 1 1 .do we have a 3rd ..then 4th until the mps get the result they want
No you're absolutely right. Democracy should end now, we will stick with this shit show and Brexit and just "make the most" of being poor and living in a shithole country."
dont talk utter bollocks |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If it goes 1 1 .do we have a 3rd ..then 4th until the mps get the result they want
No you're absolutely right. Democracy should end now, we will stick with this shit show and Brexit and just "make the most" of being poor and living in a shithole country.dont talk utter bollocks "
I’m making fun of people who think that having more democracy is a threat to democracy.
Also making fun of leavers in general for thinking a positive attitude will somehow lessen the impact of Brexit on the country. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If there was a 2nd referendum, we all know remain would win. Even if it didnt really , it would . Just saying  "
You got the best referendum money could buy the last time .  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If revoke article 50 or a 2nd referendum arnt in the top 3 of the options available thats voted for by MPS tonight then im going full on guy fawks (ok not literaly before anyone calls the plod haha).
But it seems no one is really dicussing these 2 options and seem they just want some sort of brexit at any cost.
Its almost like that 5.5 million petition to revoke article 50 meant nothing."
the petition actually does mean nothing. People can sign up multiple times and they don't have to be resident in UK or Europe. Not worth a damn in reality. Last i heard the martians and the man on the moon were remain people... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"If revoke article 50 or a 2nd referendum arnt in the top 3 of the options available thats voted for by MPS tonight then im going full on guy fawks (ok not literaly before anyone calls the plod haha).
But it seems no one is really dicussing these 2 options and seem they just want some sort of brexit at any cost.
Its almost like that 5.5 million petition to revoke article 50 meant nothing."
there is a dame margater beckett amendment today that says "whatever otpions comes forward, the people should get a chance to vote on it".....
that is going to be the one to watch... if that gets support game on... and the brexiteers are going to freak! that is the once that will make they have to decide whether they want to support may in a MV3 vote....
their no deal brexit is basically dead.. and if the best they can do is mays deal, will they have enough people to get it thru... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"If revoke article 50 or a 2nd referendum arnt in the top 3 of the options available thats voted for by MPS tonight then im going full on guy fawks (ok not literaly before anyone calls the plod haha).
But it seems no one is really dicussing these 2 options and seem they just want some sort of brexit at any cost.
Its almost like that 5.5 million petition to revoke article 50 meant nothing.
the petition actually does mean nothing. People can sign up multiple times and they don't have to be resident in UK or Europe. Not worth a damn in reality. Last i heard the martians and the man on the moon were remain people... "
people like to rubbish that petition but a couple of things....
1) you can only vote multiple times if you have muliple different e-mail address (are you really going to take time out of your day to do that)
2) every e-mail address if sent a confirm email link before it is counted...(which stops bots)
3) yes people outside the UK can sign it, and this may come as a shock to you, because there are british citizens that live outside the uk!!! (you also need a uk postcode as origin to sign it as well)
so if i was being generous and saying let say 5% of them are fake....
5% of 5.8million still mean 5.25 million of them are genuine..... thats still a hell of a number! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The debate about a second referendum in Scotland might give you some insight.
The nationalists accepted the result but reserved the right to pursue another vote if there was a material change in circumstances.
The 2016 EU referendum was a material change in circumstances, they argue, because a large feature of the 2014 vote in Scotland was the argument that Scotland would exit the EU as well as the UK if it voted Yes.
Has there been a material change in circumstances since the 2016 EU referendum.
Sure, we may all be a bit wiser about the consequences. But that's not really a material change, is it?
There is also the generally accepted argument that the issue put to referenda ought to be once in a generation.
How long is a generation?
It is defined in law in only one place - the Belfast Agreement.
In the event of a referendum on Irish unification, another ballot cannot take place before seven years have elapsed.
So a generational change is defined there are 7 years.
I can see the argument for putting Mrs May's deal versus No Deal back to the people, for the simple reason it has utterly stymied Parliament.
I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do, but it is quite feasible to to have a two-question paper:
A) Leave or Remain
B) Leave with the May deal or with no deal.
i.e. the answer to the first question determines whether the 2nd question comes into play or not.
"
There is no need for such a complicated ballot paper. A second preference one would sort it easily. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If revoke article 50 or a 2nd referendum arnt in the top 3 of the options available thats voted for by MPS tonight then im going full on guy fawks (ok not literaly before anyone calls the plod haha).
But it seems no one is really dicussing these 2 options and seem they just want some sort of brexit at any cost.
Its almost like that 5.5 million petition to revoke article 50 meant nothing.
the petition actually does mean nothing. People can sign up multiple times and they don't have to be resident in UK or Europe. Not worth a damn in reality. Last i heard the martians and the man on the moon were remain people...
people like to rubbish that petition but a
couple of things....
1) you can only vote multiple times if you have muliple different e-mail address (are you really going to take time out of your day to do that)
2) every e-mail address if sent a confirm email link before it is counted...(which stops bots)
3) yes people outside the UK can sign it, and this may come as a shock to you, because there are british citizens that live outside the uk!!! (you also need a uk postcode as origin to sign it as well)
so if i was being generous and saying let say 5% of them are fake....
5% of 5.8million still mean 5.25 million of them are genuine..... thats still a hell of a number!"
Yes i do believe people will take time out of their day to sign multiple times no matter what inconvenience might arise. We see on the news daily the hoardes of people who come to london on trains and busses in order to shout their slogans (on both sides) whilst the cameras are rolling. So sitting at laptops and smartphones registering multiple e.mail addresses is piss easy compared to the folks who take the bother to protest outside parliament 24/7. So many remainers will do their bit to further their cause if they can't make it to the live protests.
Yes there are many ex-pats all over the world signing up but my reckoning is that there are loads of others who haven't set foot in the UK or EU signing up just because they see it as the right thing to do or they just do it for shits 'n' giggles. Because as we all know....leave =evil and remain = great and good or summink.
Fyi...i didn't vote in the referendum...before you slap a label on me. I did however have a cheeky tenner on leave at the bookies at 16/1 about 3 months before the vote.
anti war . Com |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"If revoke article 50 or a 2nd referendum arnt in the top 3 of the options available thats voted for by MPS tonight then im going full on guy fawks (ok not literaly before anyone calls the plod haha).
But it seems no one is really dicussing these 2 options and seem they just want some sort of brexit at any cost.
Its almost like that 5.5 million petition to revoke article 50 meant nothing.
the petition actually does mean nothing. People can sign up multiple times and they don't have to be resident in UK or Europe. Not worth a damn in reality. Last i heard the martians and the man on the moon were remain people...
people like to rubbish that petition but a
couple of things....
1) you can only vote multiple times if you have muliple different e-mail address (are you really going to take time out of your day to do that)
2) every e-mail address if sent a confirm email link before it is counted...(which stops bots)
3) yes people outside the UK can sign it, and this may come as a shock to you, because there are british citizens that live outside the uk!!! (you also need a uk postcode as origin to sign it as well)
so if i was being generous and saying let say 5% of them are fake....
5% of 5.8million still mean 5.25 million of them are genuine..... thats still a hell of a number!
Yes i do believe people will take time out of their day to sign multiple times no matter what inconvenience might arise. We see on the news daily the hoardes of people who come to london on trains and busses in order to shout their slogans (on both sides) whilst the cameras are rolling. So sitting at laptops and smartphones registering multiple e.mail addresses is piss easy compared to the folks who take the bother to protest outside parliament 24/7. So many remainers will do their bit to further their cause if they can't make it to the live protests.
Yes there are many ex-pats all over the world signing up but my reckoning is that there are loads of others who haven't set foot in the UK or EU signing up just because they see it as the right thing to do or they just do it for shits 'n' giggles. Because as we all know....leave =evil and remain = great and good or summink.
Fyi...i didn't vote in the referendum...before you slap a label on me. I did however have a cheeky tenner on leave at the bookies at 16/1 about 3 months before the vote.
anti war . Com "
You think then, without any data to base that on.
That's the thing with things that are apparently "common sense", or "obvious" or "intuitive". The data and statistics often prove these things not to be true.
What are your thoughts on the actual OP question? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
There is more than one thread on the Article 50 petition.
I'm asking for opinions or knowledge of any party including or excluding a second referendum in their manifesto.
Only the LibDems have a position and they have consistently wanted a second vote. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Just responding to a comment made by another poster who may have gone off topic.
If everyone HAD to give hard fact sources for their views and opinions then forums would be pretty blank.... i shall step aside and allow you to fix things with your huge wealth of knowledge, hard facts and water tight, no quibble ...errmm...whatever it is you say
anti war . Com |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Just responding to a comment made by another poster who may have gone off topic.
If everyone HAD to give hard fact sources for their views and opinions then forums would be pretty blank.... i shall step aside and allow you to fix things with your huge wealth of knowledge, hard facts and water tight, no quibble ...errmm...whatever it is you say
anti war . Com"
I didn't ask for hard facts. Any facts or even information based on people or groups that you know or have heard of falsifying petition signing in this case.
If not then it isn't even hearsay is it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
