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When democracy dies.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ireland is fucked . I'm not sure we ever had a real democracy here , but now our unelected gov leader is selling us down the river to multiculturalism and mass immigration , in a population of less than 5 million . If you raise any question about it you are labelled as a " far right racist " . It's mind boggling . |
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"We'll soon be finding out as it appears democracy died in this country when the politicians chose to ignore the last democratic vote of the people."
Did our politicians learn fuck all from the French revolution?
And they wonder why less and less people vote every election time......
*wanders off muttering about guilotines...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Europe is using Ireland and esp Ulster as a stick to beat the British with over Brexit . And our PM is totally on board with it , the unelected fuckwit !! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?"
Democracy in the UK will be dead on March 29th 2019 if the UK does not go ahead and leave the EU as is written in law.
Plan b will come into effect for any EU state that defies the wishes of the EU collective once the European army is formed something that is also undemocratic as it is against the original EU charter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Total democracy in most countries is an illusion.
In the U.K. you can essentially vote for one of two parties, who mostly come from the same political cloth.
There is very little chance of someone without a privileged background becoming PM.
Democracy isn’t dying in this country. It was never properly born. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ireland is fucked . I'm not sure we ever had a real democracy here , but now our unelected gov leader is selling us down the river to multiculturalism and mass immigration , in a population of less than 5 million . If you raise any question about it you are labelled as a " far right racist " . It's mind boggling . "
That is excatly how sweden is now, noone is allowed to mention how wrong the mass immigration is and that it have gone wrong.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Total democracy in most countries is an illusion.
In the U.K. you can essentially vote for one of two parties, who mostly come from the same political cloth.
There is very little chance of someone without a privileged background becoming PM.
Democracy isn’t dying in this country. It was never properly born."
heres a few for you not from privileged backgrounds.
ramesey macdonald
david lloyd george
harold wilson
john major
margret thatcher
gordon brown
T may. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Democracy, democracy is already an empty slogan, unfortunately. People can vote, let them think that their voice counts but the truth is that the world is ruled by rich elites and they make decision. Sad but true. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
"Ireland is fucked . I'm not sure we ever had a real democracy here , but now our unelected gov leader is selling us down the river to multiculturalism and mass immigration , in a population of less than 5 million . If you raise any question about it you are labelled as a " far right racist " . It's mind boggling . "
how long has it been like that in r.o.i ? uk has been like yhat since the blair goverment.mention anything liberals dont like you uneducated or a bigot.ive not botherd voting since john major was p.m see no point in taking part.i watch out for me and mine and that is it. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Ireland is fucked . I'm not sure we ever had a real democracy here , but now our unelected gov leader is selling us down the river to multiculturalism and mass immigration , in a population of less than 5 million . If you raise any question about it you are labelled as a " far right racist " . It's mind boggling .
how long has it been like that in r.o.i ? uk has been like yhat since the blair goverment.mention anything liberals dont like you uneducated or a bigot.ive not botherd voting since john major was p.m see no point in taking part.i watch out for me and mine and that is it."
You are right there mate. |
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Hitler came to power through a democratic vote and we are leaving the EU through a democratic vote. People make mistakes and that's why we have a parliamentary democracy, where you can vote them out after 5 years if you realise you made a big mistake. Same thing should apply to brexit.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hitler came to power through a democratic vote and we are leaving the EU through a democratic vote. People make mistakes and that's why we have a parliamentary democracy, where you can vote them out after 5 years if you realise you made a big mistake. Same thing should apply to brexit. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hitler came to power through a democratic vote and we are leaving the EU through a democratic vote. People make mistakes and that's why we have a parliamentary democracy, where you can vote them out after 5 years if you realise you made a big mistake. Same thing should apply to brexit. "
I would agree with you assuming that we leave as democratically voted for and then another vote in 5 years as to whether to stay out or seek a return.
There is of course the cost of constantly having a referendum every 5 years and whether the EU would sanction it (they would not). |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Hitler came to power through a democratic vote and we are leaving the EU through a democratic vote. People make mistakes and that's why we have a parliamentary democracy, where you can vote them out after 5 years if you realise you made a big mistake. Same thing should apply to brexit. "
Well we had to wait 40 years to vote to leave the eu/eec but im happy to wait only 20 years for another vote to see if we go back in, cant be fairer than that |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?"
Aren't the military involved in quelling the yellow vest protests in France? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Aren't the military involved in quelling the yellow vest protests in France?"
More troops have been drafted in to protect government buildings to free up the police.
So yeah once a government decides to deploy troops to protect itself from the people. You can safely say democracy is dead.
Democracy along with free speech is long dead and gone. It was never really here. When the masses marched against the Iraq war that should of been the wake up call but no. Sheep do what sheep do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ireland is fucked . I'm not sure we ever had a real democracy here , but now our unelected gov leader is selling us down the river to multiculturalism and mass immigration , in a population of less than 5 million . If you raise any question about it you are labelled as a " far right racist " . It's mind boggling .
how long has it been like that in r.o.i ? uk has been like yhat since the blair goverment.mention anything liberals dont like you uneducated or a bigot.ive not botherd voting since john major was p.m see no point in taking part.i watch out for me and mine and that is it."
Ireland isn’t like that at all. Only a small minority are scared of brown people, the vast majority of the population are intelligent, friendly, educated, articulate and one the ball.
As a sweeping generalisation, much less of the Irish are easily taken in by the popularist right wing “all your problems are caused by those brown people coming over here”. It’s a much bigger problem here. As evidenced by Brexit. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Aren't the military involved in quelling the yellow vest protests in France?"
All protesters banned from the champs elysees this weekend.will see how that goes down with the yellow vests. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Is it more the fact that people are concerned that a nation of that size cannot and does not have the infrastructure in place to deal with a mass influx of people from different cultures, with little grasp of the language, customs and social understanding of the host nation rather than simply "fear Brown people"?
Aye I think that's more likely but yes continue to dismiss genuine concerns.
Diversity at any cost am I right.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?"
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives. "
But it was a simple choice in or out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives.
But it was a simple choice in or out."
Do you not think that's exactly the problem though, a massively complex issue turned into a simple yes or no answer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives.
But it was a simple choice in or out.
Do you not think that's exactly the problem though, a massively complex issue turned into a simple yes or no answer. "
This. 100%. Brexit is extremely complicated. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives.
But it was a simple choice in or out.
Do you not think that's exactly the problem though, a massively complex issue turned into a simple yes or no answer. "
Maybe but the question was put to the people and then mps enacted the result ( thats mps from both sides).If they were so wise and worried about it they should have voiced their concerns and not voted to enact it.They did so should carry on and complete what they started.They made a law which is for us to leave if no deal is reached and now dont like it.She was right it is mps fault if they had not voted to start the process we wouldnt be in this position.Corbyn pisses me off more than most as he voted for it and now just opposes anything. |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives.
But it was a simple choice in or out.
Do you not think that's exactly the problem though, a massively complex issue turned into a simple yes or no answer. "
It should have been done in two steps:
1 Mandate so negotiate a deal for leaving yes or no
2 do you want to leave eu under the negotiated t&c/deal yes or no?
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"We'll soon be finding out as it appears democracy died in this country when the politicians chose to ignore the last democratic vote of the people."
The last democratic vote was Thursday 8 June 2017. There was no overall majority but the the Conservative party did a dodgy deal with the DUP to retain power. I'm not sure that the politicians ignored the results though.
Obviously you are referring to that 'democratic' referendum that was won based on many lies about Turkey, Immigrants, EU Army etc. The referendum that the vast majority of the electorate simply didn't have the knowledge or experience to form a well reasoned conclusion. |
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"Europe is using Ireland and esp Ulster as a stick to beat the British with over Brexit . And our PM is totally on board with it , the unelected fuckwit !!"
Good news that your view is in the minority in RoI Id say |
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy in the UK will be dead on March 29th 2019 if the UK does not go ahead and leave the EU as is written in law.
Plan b will come into effect for any EU state that defies the wishes of the EU collective once the European army is formed something that is also undemocratic as it is against the original EU charter."
I dont think youve grasped what democracy and a sovereign parliament are about. |
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"Total democracy in most countries is an illusion.
In the U.K. you can essentially vote for one of two parties, who mostly come from the same political cloth.
There is very little chance of someone without a privileged background becoming PM.
Democracy isn’t dying in this country. It was never properly born.heres a few for you not from privileged backgrounds.
ramesey macdonald
david lloyd george
harold wilson
john major
margret thatcher
gordon brown
T may."
I'd add Jim Callaghan to that list |
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Democracy wasn’t correctly implemented, it hasn’t gone anywhere.
To simply have democracy as a stand alone concept in meaningless without access to unbias information on what you’re asking people to vote on.
Would NASA let people vote on which propulsion fuel to use in their next space rocket and accept the vote from the general public. Absolutely not, because most of us haven’t got a fucking clue.
Referendums only work when it’s a simple choice. Ireland run them when a change is required to their constitution, for example gay marriage. Easy, you either do or don’t want it to be legal.
For more complex issues like membership of the E.U. it’s completely inappropriate, this is why we have elected representatives. But it was a simple choice in or out."
Unfortunately OUT is a lot more nuanced than in, giving rise to the utter fiasco we see now |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I was watching a very interesting program yesterday about democracy and what happens when it dies, then a totalisarian state arises, they talked about sweden, chile also brexit and other countries then about plan b where the military comes in, whats your view when there is no democracy left is there signs such as you cant have other views than the norm?
Aren't the military involved in quelling the yellow vest protests in France?"
Yes they are. I reckon we are seeing a revolution there. |
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"Ireland is fucked . I'm not sure we ever had a real democracy here , but now our unelected gov leader is selling us down the river to multiculturalism and mass immigration , in a population of less than 5 million . If you raise any question about it you are labelled as a " far right racist " . It's mind boggling .
how long has it been like that in r.o.i ? uk has been like yhat since the blair goverment.mention anything liberals dont like you uneducated or a bigot.ive not botherd voting since john major was p.m see no point in taking part.i watch out for me and mine and that is it.
Ireland isn’t like that at all. Only a small minority are scared of brown people, the vast majority of the population are intelligent, friendly, educated, articulate and one the ball.
As a sweeping generalisation, much less of the Irish are easily taken in by the popularist right wing “all your problems are caused by those brown people coming over here”. It’s a much bigger problem here. As evidenced by Brexit."
You're right Dave. The views expressed above yours are a bit irritating to the majority of us. What the "unelected leader" thing is about is unclear to me. Our Taoiseach is elected is the same way as every Taoiseach was before him, although I'm not in his fan club. He's still our democratically elected leader. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The problem is not democracy. The problem is abdication of responsibility and giving the “masses” a referendum. We were in a pretty good position in the EU but a bunch of power hungry and frankly inept and unelectable whack jobs sold a vision of jingoistic nationalism that they had no idea how to achieve to the disaffected, scared and downtrodden folks who bought into a myth that the brexiteers cannot achieve. So in desperation we end up with the fuck em all we are leaving no deal brexit as the easy way out for the flat earthers! As an analogy try thinking about our railway system that has evolved over many years into a fairly well functioning machine and then imagine that one of the train companies doesnt want to work with the others because it believes it can run things better and make more money by building its own railway system so it can run trains when and how it wants to. The problem is that its going to cost so much more money to duplicate the existing system and because the existing companies have an integrated and more efficient system they have an immediate and effective economic advantage so why would anyone use the smaller more limited competitor even if they are the cheapest. No deal is economic suicide and those who blather on about democracy should remind themselves that a true democracy allows for a change of mind in response to a change in circumstances.  |
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"We'll soon be finding out as it appears democracy died in this country when the politicians chose to ignore the last democratic vote of the people.
The last democratic vote was Thursday 8 June 2017. There was no overall majority but the the Conservative party did a dodgy deal with the DUP to retain power. I'm not sure that the politicians ignored the results though.
Obviously you are referring to that 'democratic' referendum that was won based on many lies about Turkey, Immigrants, EU Army etc. The referendum that the vast majority of the electorate simply didn't have the knowledge or experience to form a well reasoned conclusion."
Nice summary, sadly true |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Total democracy in most countries is an illusion.
In the U.K. you can essentially vote for one of two parties, who mostly come from the same political cloth.
There is very little chance of someone without a privileged background becoming PM.
Democracy isn’t dying in this country. It was never properly born.heres a few for you not from privileged backgrounds.
ramesey macdonald
david lloyd george
harold wilson
john major
margret thatcher
gordon brown
T may.
I'd add Jim Callaghan to that list"
Very cynical and really untrue as coming from a wealthy background does not make the country non democratic.
A good example of this is Hitler,was he from a whealthy background,no he was underclass if anything and he was not democratic.Thatcher was a green grocers daughter some would say she was not democratic although I would disagree wiht this 100%.
I think you can see where I am coming from.Oh yes John Major I think. |
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