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Bercow - Just threw 10 starving cats into the pigeon pen
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
Well - That has thrown a spanner in the works!
Oddly enough - I think that this may make a no deal Brexit next Friday more likely than ever.
All May has to do is to tell the EU that she needs more time to negotiate and they will probably tell her to fuck off.
And that will be that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well - That has thrown a spanner in the works!
Oddly enough - I think that this may make a no deal Brexit next Friday more likely than ever.
All May has to do is to tell the EU that she needs more time to negotiate and they will probably tell her to fuck off.
And that will be that."
Was this the plan all along? They seem to be trying everything they can to push us into the most damaging Brexit possible.
How do they sleep at night. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Well - That has thrown a spanner in the works!
Oddly enough - I think that this may make a no deal Brexit next Friday more likely than ever.
All May has to do is to tell the EU that she needs more time to negotiate and they will probably tell her to fuck off.
And that will be that.
Was this the plan all along? They seem to be trying everything they can to push us into the most damaging Brexit possible.
How do they sleep at night."
Think you will find bercow is a remainer so it might backfire on him.  |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
It's a shot across the bows for politicians who thought they could push a deal through. It shows a huge vote for democracy by Bercow in not succumbing to constant votes on the same but adjusted text too.
I wonder where he stands on the second referendum as the people voted, the government got a deal and the house voted it out in full knowledge of the consequences. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It's a shot across the bows for politicians who thought they could push a deal through. It shows a huge vote for democracy by Bercow in not succumbing to constant votes on the same but adjusted text too.
I wonder where he stands on the second referendum as the people voted, the government got a deal and the house voted it out in full knowledge of the consequences. "
A good point there can be no second referendum now either as that was voted down the other day. |
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"Well - That has thrown a spanner in the works!
Oddly enough - I think that this may make a no deal Brexit next Friday more likely than ever.
All May has to do is to tell the EU that she needs more time to negotiate and they will probably tell her to fuck off.
And that will be that."
*********************************
HOLD ON CAN WE ALL JUST YAKE A MINUTE TO APPLAUD THE FUNNIEST TOPIC TITLE IN POLITICS FORUM HISTORY.
TAKE A BOW. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Well - That has thrown a spanner in the works!
Oddly enough - I think that this may make a no deal Brexit next Friday more likely than ever.
All May has to do is to tell the EU that she needs more time to negotiate and they will probably tell her to fuck off.
And that will be that.
*********************************
HOLD ON CAN WE ALL JUST YAKE A MINUTE TO APPLAUD THE FUNNIEST TOPIC TITLE IN POLITICS FORUM HISTORY.
TAKE A BOW."
Bowing graciously as i can lol |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
There is one way that May could get her deal voted on again...
If she agrees with an amendment to make acceptance of the deal conditional upon it being put back to the people for approval.
The issue now of course is time...
We are due to leave the EU next Friday and as Friday is not a parliamentary day as such, that means that there are just 7 working days for someone to pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat.
All I have seen today are both Brexit supporting and Remain supporting MP's both sensing that this is a step in the right direction for them. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I've seen it suggested Labour would abstain if the deal came back with a confirmatory referendum attached.
That would clear the path for its approval.
But will May be the one who U-turns on everything she said previously?
Wouldn't be the first time, certainly.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The only tenable solution is to withdraw from a 50 No its to leave with no deal i think you will find more people voted to leave."
The poster said “tenable”, not popularist.
Leaving with no deal benefits about 1000-2000 individuals. While he rest of us will be fucked. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is one way that May could get her deal voted on again...
If she agrees with an amendment to make acceptance of the deal conditional upon it being put back to the people for approval.
The issue now of course is time...
We are due to leave the EU next Friday and as Friday is not a parliamentary day as such, that means that there are just 7 working days for someone to pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat.
All I have seen today are both Brexit supporting and Remain supporting MP's both sensing that this is a step in the right direction for them."
She can close and reopen Parliament after a few days then submit her deal again as well. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"There is one way that May could get her deal voted on again...
If she agrees with an amendment to make acceptance of the deal conditional upon it being put back to the people for approval.
The issue now of course is time...
We are due to leave the EU next Friday and as Friday is not a parliamentary day as such, that means that there are just 7 working days for someone to pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat.
All I have seen today are both Brexit supporting and Remain supporting MP's both sensing that this is a step in the right direction for them."
Yep. This has been the most sensible solution for months.
A referendum on the transition agreement will also allow for an extension to Article 50.
Of course, that would be a dwferendum on going back to how we were or an unspecified period of even more negotiations on the final agreement... |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The only tenable solution is to withdraw from a 50 No its to leave with no deal i think you will find more people voted to leave."
I think you'll find that nobody has any idea who voted to leave with no deal. That was never pitched as a realistic possibility.
There are many tenable solutions I clouding May's deal which is to ultimately leave the EU. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
Actually, I have just read that the EU is trying to help May out by suggesting that a change to the departure date to 01st July might be enough to suggest that there is meaningful change and allow her to get it through for a vote next week. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually, I have just read that the EU is trying to help May out by suggesting that a change to the departure date to 01st July might be enough to suggest that there is meaningful change and allow her to get it through for a vote next week."
Then that would come down to Bercow to decide if just a date change constituted a substantial difference. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The only tenable solution is to withdraw from a 50 No its to leave with no deal i think you will find more people voted to leave.
The poster said “tenable”, not popularist.
Leaving with no deal benefits about 1000-2000 individuals. While he rest of us will be fucked."
Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The only tenable solution is to withdraw from a 50 No its to leave with no deal i think you will find more people voted to leave.
The poster said “tenable”, not popularist.
Leaving with no deal benefits about 1000-2000 individuals. While he rest of us will be fucked. Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today. "
Really?
How does it benefit farming and manufacturing?
The WTO trading rules are, by definition, the worst trading terms available in the world.
If we unilaterally lower our tariffs as currently proposed, what have we to bargain with in the future? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today. "
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Noam Chomsky’s summary of the WTO...
1. A “new tool” for far-reaching US intervention into the internal affairs of others;
2. The takeover of a crucial sector of foreign economies by US-based corporations;
3. Benefits for business sectors and the wealthy;
4. Shifting of costs to the general population;
5. New and potentially powerful weapons against the threat of democracy.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"There is one way that May could get her deal voted on again...
If she agrees with an amendment to make acceptance of the deal conditional upon it being put back to the people for approval.
The issue now of course is time...
We are due to leave the EU next Friday and as Friday is not a parliamentary day as such, that means that there are just 7 working days for someone to pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat.
All I have seen today are both Brexit supporting and Remain supporting MP's both sensing that this is a step in the right direction for them.
Yep. This has been the most sensible solution for months.
A referendum on the transition agreement will also allow for an extension to Article 50.
Of course, that would be a dwferendum on going back to how we were or an unspecified period of even more negotiations on the final agreement..."
So then you get into what the question will be.Mays deal or no deal is the only way to comply with the referendum result. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"There is one way that May could get her deal voted on again...
If she agrees with an amendment to make acceptance of the deal conditional upon it being put back to the people for approval.
The issue now of course is time...
We are due to leave the EU next Friday and as Friday is not a parliamentary day as such, that means that there are just 7 working days for someone to pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat.
All I have seen today are both Brexit supporting and Remain supporting MP's both sensing that this is a step in the right direction for them.
Yep. This has been the most sensible solution for months.
A referendum on the transition agreement will also allow for an extension to Article 50.
Of course, that would be a dwferendum on going back to how we were or an unspecified period of even more negotiations on the final agreement...So then you get into what the question will be.Mays deal or no deal is the only way to comply with the referendum result."
No. The facts have materially changed.
The leave promises are manifestly undeliverable.
A deal has been negotiated that is substantially different to anything suggested in the referendum.
The voter base has changed.
Would the population be wrong to change it's mind? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
"
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . "
That's not actually true is it?
Things can get better or worse.
The results so far indicate that the latter is currently more likely.
You're logic is that because there hasn't been a disaster everything is must improve for some unspecified reason  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . "
Its a great country to live in and still will be after we leave. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . "
Great Prime Minister??
|
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" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better .
Great Prime Minister??
"
This is one point we may agree on, the prime minister is a walking and sometimes dancing disaster zone!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Indeed OP, I think John Bercow's intervention today makes a No Deal brexit almost a dead cert.
If the PM asks the EU for an extension to A50, she will be required to provide a sufficient reason.
The 'deal' is deader than the deadest thing you can think of, so I would suspect that the only conditions the EU would now consider to extending would be a 2nd referendum or a general election - neither of which I think would be something she would begin to consider.
The alternative would be to cancel brexit altogether, but that doesn't require an extension but complete revocation of a50.
Can't see any MP realistically considering this as an option if they have any hope of holding on to their seat at the next election |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Well, Britain's descent down the rabbit hole really would be complete in those circumstances.
Parliament votes against leaving the EU without a deal one week, then leaves the following week without a deal.
Take back control, eh?
How populism turns your country into a laughing stock.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Well, Britain's descent down the rabbit hole really would be complete in those circumstances.
Parliament votes against leaving the EU without a deal one week, then leaves the following week without a deal.
Take back control, eh?
How populism turns your country into a laughing stock.
"
They voted on motions which are non binding, been going on for ever nothing to do with populism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't listen to anymore, we voted, get us out."
You’re being the absolute stereotype of a leaver there mate.
This post represents why we shouldn’t have had a referendum. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
Just putting this out there...
.. if May would have come up a customs union plan from the start, Corbyn would have opposed it as it wouldn't have been a proper Brexit. He would have rallied his voters behind him and you would now be opposing the general idea you are mostly in favour of.
Labour would asking for a second referendum on a customs union plan in favour of a hard brexit, just so there wasn't a Tory Brexit and a deal going through... All the while moaning at what a bad job she's done of it.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
Personally, I hope that we find a middle ground between No Deal and remaining. Oddly, and against every political bone in my body, maybe May's plan is the best thing. Any civilised state would not want to ignore almost half of the population, that's how we got into this mess in the first place. May's deal has enough "leave" and "remain" in it to make everyone upset, so I reckon she must have got it spot on. If you have two children, one vegetarian, one not, it might not be unreasonable to suggest Quorn chicken nuggets for tea. Neither will be happy, but each will have been honoured. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Just putting this out there...
.. if May would have come up a customs union plan from the start, Corbyn would have opposed it as it wouldn't have been a proper Brexit. He would have rallied his voters behind him and you would now be opposing the general idea you are mostly in favour of.
Labour would asking for a second referendum on a customs union plan in favour of a hard brexit, just so there wasn't a Tory Brexit and a deal going through... All the while moaning at what a bad job she's done of it. "
Yep as they keep saying on tv its our job to oppose. |
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"Indeed OP, I think John Bercow's intervention today makes a No Deal brexit almost a dead cert.
If the PM asks the EU for an extension to A50, she will be required to provide a sufficient reason.
The 'deal' is deader than the deadest thing you can think of, so I would suspect that the only conditions the EU would now consider to extending would be a 2nd referendum or a general election - neither of which I think would be something she would begin to consider.
The alternative would be to cancel brexit altogether, but that doesn't require an extension but complete revocation of a50.
Can't see any MP realistically considering this as an option if they have any hope of holding on to their seat at the next election"
But who do you vote for in protest? Neither party has shown it has a clue what it's doing and the 3rd place Lib Dems are pro-European so no one is voting for them cos they're angry Article 50 was revoked. Or do you think Farage can build a whole party for the next election and not have his core voters split between him and UKIP? |
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" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . "
Great prime minister my arse.. |
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" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . "
Im betting things will get a lot worse before there's even a glimpse of "better". The economy hasnt collapsed because the BoE has pumped in lots of liquidity to the system |
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"Just putting this out there...
.. if May would have come up a customs union plan from the start, Corbyn would have opposed it as it wouldn't have been a proper Brexit. He would have rallied his voters behind him and you would now be opposing the general idea you are mostly in favour of.
Labour would asking for a second referendum on a customs union plan in favour of a hard brexit, just so there wasn't a Tory Brexit and a deal going through... All the while moaning at what a bad job she's done of it. "
If May hadnt lost her overall majority and left herself hostage to the DUP and her ERG nutjobs, we wouldnt be living through this shambles |
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"The Conservative party have wanted a no deal all along.
Privatise and deregulate "
But they can privatise and pretty much deregulate as much as they want (and both Labour and Conservative have done) whether we're in the EU or not.
Sorry but don't buy that as the reason, it simply doesn't stack up.
I know it's tempting to use BREXIT for party political point scoring and, when it's defeated there will be plenty to hit the Tories with, but don't loose focus on what the fight is now. The fight right now is BREXIT and we need the remaining pragmatic Tories on our site.
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" Handled correctly no deal benefits everyone . Reduced import tariffs mean lower prices for the end user .
There is a detailed analysis in one of the National Newspapers today.
Handled correctly?
Lol that made me laugh.
Can you show one thing so far about Brexit that has been "handled correctly".
It's a complete feckin' farce.
Lolololol
It is a complex task and we are getting there. Some people are making the task as difficult as possible but we will succeed in the end.
There is no collapse in the economy and we have a great Prime Minister who is leading us through the process .
Things can only get better . "
I've just been watching an old series on Horror Channel called "Sliders". It's about a group of people who slide into alternative reality worlds.
My question to you is are you from an alternative reality world and have slid to ours or have I left my reality and slid into yours?
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
Personally, I hope that we find a middle ground between No Deal and remaining. Oddly, and against every political bone in my body, maybe May's plan is the best thing. Any civilised state would not want to ignore almost half of the population, that's how we got into this mess in the first place. May's deal has enough "leave" and "remain" in it to make everyone upset, so I reckon she must have got it spot on. If you have two children, one vegetarian, one not, it might not be unreasonable to suggest Quorn chicken nuggets for tea. Neither will be happy, but each will have been honoured."
Except that May's deal leaves us with less say and control than we have now. Yes, it's Leave so technically meats the requirements of referendum mandate but it actually has nearly all the perceived disadvantages of being in the EU but without the advantage of having a say in how it's run and the rules we would still have to obey. Ít's is actually almost everything BREXITERS said was wrong with the being in the EU. I personally can't see how anyone who voted for BREXIT to get back sovereignty could ever possibly get behind May's deal and support it. It's actually the biggest transfer of British sovereignty to European control since 1066.
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
"
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased. |
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased. "
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased.
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
"
There was a change between the 1st vote on her deal and the 2nd vote. Theresa May got an additional legal add on to the backstop, which lead to the Attorney general Geoffrey Cox changing his legal opinion to say the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'. So as it stands we haven't actually had a vote on the same exact deal yet. |
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased.
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
There was a change between the 1st vote on her deal and the 2nd vote. Theresa May got an additional legal add on to the backstop, which lead to the Attorney general Geoffrey Cox changing his legal opinion to say the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'. So as it stands we haven't actually had a vote on the same exact deal yet. "
Technically you are correct, which is why the second vote was allowed. But be careful how strongly you argue that a small change makes a second or third vote on an issue acceptable because that's the exact same argument, but a much larger change, is the argument put forward for the People's vote final say.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased.
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
There was a change between the 1st vote on her deal and the 2nd vote. Theresa May got an additional legal add on to the backstop, which lead to the Attorney general Geoffrey Cox changing his legal opinion to say the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'. So as it stands we haven't actually had a vote on the same exact deal yet. "
You can't help yourself when you lie you have to repeat it in another thrwad to try and make it "real" somehow
The Attorney General's legal advice verbatim:
"However, the legal risk remains unchanged that if through no such demonstrable failure of either party, but simply because of intractable differences, that situation does arise, the United Kingdom would have, at least while the fundamental circumstances remained the same, no internationally lawful means of exiting the Protocol’s arrangements, save by agreement."
What part of "the legal risk remains unchanged" means that the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'? |
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It's good that we respect the laws and rules of a time honoured institution of government, especially as sovereignty has been shown as so important to millions of citizens. The voting was postponed from December and it's had huge volumes of time to be scheduled, amended etc, whilst the government has always known the rules governing limits as well as Article 50. Incompetent.
They have wasted the time and its their job to secure a deal that is now worthy of voting, in an agreed timeframe. May could have wanted to just get her deal voted through due to pressure on the house as she'd left no choice - it's right that this morally bankrupt option is now gone.
Clueless bunch of creatures |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
Bercow is correct not to allow a 3rd meaningful vote ( I was a little surprised he allowed the 2nd ) , might be worth pointing out that the people angry with Bercow for not allowing a 3rd ( or 4th) vote are the very same people who say the country is not allowed a 2nd referendum following the result of the non binding 1st referendum |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
May is deliberately trying to run down the clock and bounce MPs into making a poor decision under pressure.
The government has deliberately wasted Parliamentary time to contrive this situation. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Just putting this out there...
.. if May would have come up a customs union plan from the start, Corbyn would have opposed it as it wouldn't have been a proper Brexit. He would have rallied his voters behind him and you would now be opposing the general idea you are mostly in favour of.
Labour would asking for a second referendum on a customs union plan in favour of a hard brexit, just so there wasn't a Tory Brexit and a deal going through... All the while moaning at what a bad job she's done of it. "
No they wouldn't- Labour policy was decided at the party conference and has remained unchanged. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Bercow is correct not to allow a 3rd meaningful vote ( I was a little surprised he allowed the 2nd ) , might be worth pointing out that the people angry with Bercow for not allowing a 3rd ( or 4th) vote are the very same people who say the country is not allowed a 2nd referendum following the result of the non binding 1st referendum "
Bercow is proving himself to be independent - and well done for that.
If anyone has reason to be annoyed, it ought to be about a Government that has had almost three years to sort this out, yet with ten days to go keeps coming back with the same scrap of paper because it has run out of ideas.
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"yet with ten days to go keeps coming back with the same scrap of paper because it has run out of ideas.
"
Anyone reminded of Neville Chamberlain with his fist full of shit paper on the steps of a plane proclaiming 'Peace in our time!'? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Just putting this out there...
.. if May would have come up a customs union plan from the start, Corbyn would have opposed it as it wouldn't have been a proper Brexit. He would have rallied his voters behind him and you would now be opposing the general idea you are mostly in favour of.
Labour would asking for a second referendum on a customs union plan in favour of a hard brexit, just so there wasn't a Tory Brexit and a deal going through... All the while moaning at what a bad job she's done of it.
No they wouldn't- Labour policy was decided at the party conference and has remained unchanged."
The Labour party isn't getting what it voted for though is it?
The leadership is dancing on the head of a pin trying to play both remain and leave whilst trying to get to a general election.
That's perfectly understandable but you can't pretend that this is nothing but a cynical political calculation. |
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased.
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
There was a change between the 1st vote on her deal and the 2nd vote. Theresa May got an additional legal add on to the backstop, which lead to the Attorney general Geoffrey Cox changing his legal opinion to say the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'. So as it stands we haven't actually had a vote on the same exact deal yet.
Technically you are correct, which is why the second vote was allowed. But be careful how strongly you argue that a small change makes a second or third vote on an issue acceptable because that's the exact same argument, but a much larger change, is the argument put forward for the People's vote final say.
"
I think remainers who want a 2nd referendum have severely damaged their case because of hypocritical Tiggers (the independent group) lead by some of the main voices for a People's Vote (Chukka Umunna and Anna Soubry, etc), who keep calling for a 2nd referendum but still refuse to give their constituents a 2nd vote in by elections.
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"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased.
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
There was a change between the 1st vote on her deal and the 2nd vote. Theresa May got an additional legal add on to the backstop, which lead to the Attorney general Geoffrey Cox changing his legal opinion to say the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'. So as it stands we haven't actually had a vote on the same exact deal yet.
You can't help yourself when you lie you have to repeat it in another thrwad to try and make it "real" somehow
The Attorney General's legal advice verbatim:
"However, the legal risk remains unchanged that if through no such demonstrable failure of either party, but simply because of intractable differences, that situation does arise, the United Kingdom would have, at least while the fundamental circumstances remained the same, no internationally lawful means of exiting the Protocol’s arrangements, save by agreement."
What part of "the legal risk remains unchanged" means that the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'? "
As with the other thread, you haven't given the full quote on Geoffrey Cox's altered legal advice which changed after the first vote after Theresa May obtained additional legal add to the backstop from the EU. There was a section in attorney general Geoffrey Cox's paper which said the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been "reduced". |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Legally Non binding like the referendum result? I think there needs to be some consistency and fairness across the board.
This post could easily have been directed at the Speaker John Bercow (although you went on to talk about May's deal).
John Bercow's actions today have shown he is not consistent and is not fair in his rulings.
Earlier in the year he broke parliamentary precedent when he allowed a vote on an ammendment to an amendment. That broke all previous parliamentary precedent, and Bercow reasoned it away by saying things are always evolving and changing.
Now today he says the deal cannot be brought back for a 3rd vote because it would break parliamentary precedent.
Sorry Johnny boy you can't have it both ways!
He's not consistent and is clearly biased.
But actually he can. And let's face it, it is getting a bit ridiculous to vote 3 times on the same motion without any change at all.
However, if May can come back with a change, let's say the date from 11pm 29 March 2019 to any other date, that would probably be enough to make another 3rd vote on here deal acceptable.
There was a change between the 1st vote on her deal and the 2nd vote. Theresa May got an additional legal add on to the backstop, which lead to the Attorney general Geoffrey Cox changing his legal opinion to say the threat of being trapped in the backstop had been 'reduced'. So as it stands we haven't actually had a vote on the same exact deal yet.
Technically you are correct, which is why the second vote was allowed. But be careful how strongly you argue that a small change makes a second or third vote on an issue acceptable because that's the exact same argument, but a much larger change, is the argument put forward for the People's vote final say.
I think remainers who want a 2nd referendum have severely damaged their case because of hypocritical Tiggers (the independent group) lead by some of the main voices for a People's Vote (Chukka Umunna and Anna Soubry, etc), who keep calling for a 2nd referendum but still refuse to give their constituents a 2nd vote in by elections.
"
Record keeps playing.
UKIP MEPs are still in post.
Winston Churchill remained in post when he crossed the floor (twice) and no the rules were not different then.
I think they should call by-election but they don't have to. They are leveraging their power just as the DUP are. |
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"Bercow is correct not to allow a 3rd meaningful vote ( I was a little surprised he allowed the 2nd ) , might be worth pointing out that the people angry with Bercow for not allowing a 3rd ( or 4th) vote are the very same people who say the country is not allowed a 2nd referendum following the result of the non binding 1st referendum "
As it happens many Brexiteers (mainly those in the ERG) appear to be very happy with John Bercow's decision yesterday. |
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"yet with ten days to go keeps coming back with the same scrap of paper because it has run out of ideas.
Anyone reminded of Neville Chamberlain with his fist full of shit paper on the steps of a plane proclaiming 'Peace in our time!'?"
Just as Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler, Theresa May is trying to appease the EU.
Just as the UK under new leadership with Winston Churchill eventually ended up telling Hitler to fuck off, the UK should be telling the EU under new leadership to fuck off. Time for Theresa May to go. |
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"The only tenable solution is to withdraw from a 50 No its to leave with no deal i think you will find more people voted to leave."
I said tenable
Does not matter what idiots want
I'm sure they want to fly and pay no taxes too
No deal exit is not rationally possible |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
"yet with ten days to go keeps coming back with the same scrap of paper because it has run out of ideas.
Anyone reminded of Neville Chamberlain with his fist full of shit paper on the steps of a plane proclaiming 'Peace in our time!'?
Just as Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler, Theresa May is trying to appease the EU.
Just as the UK under new leadership with Winston Churchill eventually ended up telling Hitler to fuck off, the UK should be telling the EU under new leadership to fuck off. Time for Theresa May to go. "
Right in the line with other Brexiteers' despicable Nazi -EU analogies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"yet with ten days to go keeps coming back with the same scrap of paper because it has run out of ideas.
Anyone reminded of Neville Chamberlain with his fist full of shit paper on the steps of a plane proclaiming 'Peace in our time!'?
Just as Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler, Theresa May is trying to appease the EU.
Just as the UK under new leadership with Winston Churchill eventually ended up telling Hitler to fuck off, the UK should be telling the EU under new leadership to fuck off. Time for Theresa May to go. "
You're a very confusing man. So you compare the EU that you hate for no discernable reason, to Hitler (who, going on your track record of far right politicians and public figure you worship, maybe you like?).
You're bizarre to the extreme. I don't know if you are just really confused or if you're actually sane but get some kind of pleasure in putting on this Mr Brexit character to parody brexiteers by deliberately misunderstanding what's going on in the news. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The cat metaphor is great.
Did you notice that Nathalie Loiseau, the European affairs minister for France, has called her cat Brexit?
“He wakes up miaowing like mad because he wants to be let out. As soon as I open the door, he stands in the middle, unsure whether he wants to go out or not. When I put him out, he gives me an evil look.”
Brilliant |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The cat metaphor is great.
Did you notice that Nathalie Loiseau, the European affairs minister for France, has called her cat Brexit?
“He wakes up miaowing like mad because he wants to be let out. As soon as I open the door, he stands in the middle, unsure whether he wants to go out or not. When I put him out, he gives me an evil look.”
Brilliant "
Ha, brilliant, let's just hope May is given the ultimatum Leave now or bloody stay, no extension. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"The cat metaphor is great.
Did you notice that Nathalie Loiseau, the European affairs minister for France, has called her cat Brexit?
“He wakes up miaowing like mad because he wants to be let out. As soon as I open the door, he stands in the middle, unsure whether he wants to go out or not. When I put him out, he gives me an evil look.”
Brilliant
Ha, brilliant, let's just hope May is given the ultimatum Leave now or bloody stay, no extension. "
Yeah i hope that too and watching france 24 it looks like macron doesn't want an extension so hopefully we will be out on the 29th. |
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"The cat metaphor is great.
Did you notice that Nathalie Loiseau, the European affairs minister for France, has called her cat Brexit?
“He wakes up miaowing like mad because he wants to be let out. As soon as I open the door, he stands in the middle, unsure whether he wants to go out or not. When I put him out, he gives me an evil look.”
Brilliant
Ha, brilliant, let's just hope May is given the ultimatum Leave now or bloody stay, no extension. Yeah i hope that too and watching france 24 it looks like macron doesn't want an extension so hopefully we will be out on the 29th."
Because leaving having failed to complete preparations for a departure on 29/3 and having failed to pass any of the required legislation is incredibly sensible? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
So, having had a 1000 days to deliver the UK’s exit from the EU, the Conservative Party has succeeded only in handing the decision back to 27 other member states of the EU.
They will decide if the UK leaves on March 29 or not.
Take back control? The UK is demonstrating it is in incapable of doing so. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
THE Speaker of the House has clarified that he only smirked when cancelling a third Brexit vote yesterday because it was so incredibly funny.
John Bercow admitted that he spent the whole weekend, during which senior Tories pontificated about who would change sides and offered the DUP a Range Rover Evoque each, absolutely weak with laughter but had managed to calm it down.
He continued: “This is why it had to be a surprise statement. If Theresa had been there on the front bench there’s no way I could have got through it without breaking down.
“Just seeing Leadsom in her poisonous little fury had me biting the inside of my cheek hard. The face on her.
“I basically got a bunch of self-righteous will-of-the-people arseholes all standing on the one trapdoor, then pulled a wooden lever installed in 1604 they’d all forgotten about.
“Jacob Rees-Mogg got it. He was absolutely pissing his sides afterwards. He’s a good lad.”
Bercow added: “Apparently now they’re going to restart parliament. Get the Queen to do an early speech. This is comedy gold.” |
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