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Ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom
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"Brexit has been a farce from the start. None of the consequences were properly explained to the country before we voted, and I’m sure the motivation for a lot of, “leave voters “, were unrealistic visions of taking our country back, clamping down on immigration etc etc, it’s all BS , and the country was hood winked. Yes I voted to stay, and I’m now throughly fed up with the whole thing." Pretty much, my dad somehow believes 'No deal just leave' is a thing that can simply happen, it's kinda sad I have a better grasp of it at 24 than he does in his 50s. Hate to say it, but as someone who favoured leave, i'd say the vast majority voting to leave have absolutely no idea what it involves and just have some warped worldview telling them the EU is stealing our money and our ability to vote in our own parliament. If I had £1 for every time I heard "Nigel farage for PM, he tells it like it is" i;d be able to buy a spaceship and leave by myself lol | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. " Without us? As in You, Tom and Harry? Don't take claim for something you took no part in and don't try to speak for the dead. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" Well it does because only a slim majority of the people actually voted for leave and the demographics have since changed. Know what mate ...if your that ashamed why don't you emigrate. All the best being an emigrant in another country. Luv ye bye  | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. " 
Care to provide some examples of how our EU overlords are 'pulling down our pants and fucking us rigid'? Or are we forgetting the scientific & aggriculture grants, masses of EU doctors/nurses freely working here to prop up our health system since nobody wants to be a doctor anymore, (UK parliament are the ones underfunding it, not the EU), ease of sharing police data between EU countries for counter terrorism & International crime (We don't have easy access to EU police data if we're not in the EU)
Not to mention the NI border,(I recall the IRA having a few things to say about that back in the day), lack of any existing economic deals with non EU countries, the list goes on.
Leaving the EU is not as simple as "We aint gettin fucked in the arse no more by big meanie EU parliament, not sure how they are mean, but I dont like foreigners tellin me what to do" which probably explains why our incompetent government has done basically nothing in 3 years. | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. Without us? As in You, Tom and Harry? Don't take claim for something you took no part in and don't try to speak for the dead." | |||
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" Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime " Lame analogy. So the Italians who were allies of Germany in ww2 would now be speaking German ? You think that the average joe in any European country gives a shit if we leave or not? Sure the majority of our European brothers are grateful for our war efforts, but it has nothing to do with brexit. Don’t spout regurgitated crap. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" You voted for parliamentary sovereignty yet clearly didn't understand that. The case for Remain rests. | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. " Yes! Amazing. Love this stuff, every day someone posts something even more outlandish and even less in touch with reality. I do enjoy the classic catchphrases though “no deal is better than a shit deal”. Haven’t heard that one for a while. Please post some more of this stuff. | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. " Churchill once said something to the tune of "There's no such thing as a pity vote in this country." Which is true. Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? I mean we spun it as "We are moral and virtuous so we will do this." As apposed to admitting the reality that we wanted to remain the worlds leading power -which is a selfish reason. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. " Try reading a history book or two. All that's missing in your post for a full house of idiocy is to invoke Dunkirk. | |||
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"People voted to leave, but nobody voted for a shitshow being organised by people who couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I feel a lot of brexiteers have no idea what a no deal brexit really means and expect it to just be "Stop giving EU money, get r cuntry bak" when it's significantly more complicated than that. Would you rather our MPs agree to sailing out the sinking ship they are on, or keep it in the harbour? " The EU is the sinking ship, and Brexit is the lifeboat which gives us the means to escape it. | |||
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"People voted to leave, but nobody voted for a shitshow being organised by people who couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I feel a lot of brexiteers have no idea what a no deal brexit really means and expect it to just be "Stop giving EU money, get r cuntry bak" when it's significantly more complicated than that. Would you rather our MPs agree to sailing out the sinking ship they are on, or keep it in the harbour? The EU is the sinking ship, and Brexit is the lifeboat which gives us the means to escape it. " Unfortunately the lifeboat is holed below the waterline.... | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims." I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. " That doesn't fit the narrative of the Brexiteer ultras. Remember when they confidently predicted le Pen would take France out or that the Netherlands would elect a fascist and he would take them out? Or that Italy would leave? | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. " Can you provide a link to the probe or legal enquiry that shows they get an EU pension and via what route they attained it. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. " Would those be the EU pensions that your UKIPy mates like Farage will benefit from? | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. " Really? The Chancellor Philip Hammond forecast economic growth in the UK of 1.2% for this year this morning in his Spring Statement. Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's. Compare and contrast to Italy, Germany and France who are all in recession or about to tip into recession. You have France crippled by the yellow vest protesters and anti EU populist parties gaining more and more support with each passing election in Europe. Unemployment in Southern Europe in places like Spain and Portugal has skyrocketed under EU membership. The EU is a neoliberal job destroying economic basket case, and the sooner we're out the better. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. That doesn't fit the narrative of the Brexiteer ultras. Remember when they confidently predicted le Pen would take France out or that the Netherlands would elect a fascist and he would take them out? Or that Italy would leave? " Macron won by the skin of his teeth and has now become the most unpopular French President who ever lived. He has also admitted the french people would vote for frexit in a heartbeat if they were ever given the chance to be able to vote on it. His days are numbered and look forward to Le Pen winning the next election (offering a EU referendum for the people of France) because Macron is now a busted flush. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. Really? The Chancellor Philip Hammond forecast economic growth in the UK of 1.2% for this year this morning in his Spring Statement. Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's. Compare and contrast to Italy, Germany and France who are all in recession or about to tip into recession. You have France crippled by the yellow vest protesters and anti EU populist parties gaining more and more support with each passing election in Europe. Unemployment in Southern Europe in places like Spain and Portugal has skyrocketed under EU membership. The EU is a neoliberal job destroying economic basket case, and the sooner we're out the better. " Wasn't the predicted economic growth 1.6% a few months back? What happened to it? Oh wait...it's a prediction, duh me | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. Really? The Chancellor Philip Hammond forecast economic growth in the UK of 1.2% for this year this morning in his Spring Statement. Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's. Compare and contrast to Italy, Germany and France who are all in recession or about to tip into recession. You have France crippled by the yellow vest protesters and anti EU populist parties gaining more and more support with each passing election in Europe. Unemployment in Southern Europe in places like Spain and Portugal has skyrocketed under EU membership. The EU is a neoliberal job destroying economic basket case, and the sooner we're out the better. " EU 28 Growth average forecast 2019 1.5% Spain growth forecast 2.1% Poland 3.5% Germany 1.1% Youre not an economist are you? | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. That doesn't fit the narrative of the Brexiteer ultras. Remember when they confidently predicted le Pen would take France out or that the Netherlands would elect a fascist and he would take them out? Or that Italy would leave? Macron won by the skin of his teeth and has now become the most unpopular French President who ever lived. He has also admitted the french people would vote for frexit in a heartbeat if they were ever given the chance to be able to vote on it. His days are numbered and look forward to Le Pen winning the next election (offering a EU referendum for the people of France) because Macron is now a busted flush. " So your predictions were wrong...thanks for confirming that | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. " So are you going to leave the UK ? If I thought the Uk was destined to fail I’d look to relocate somewhere else. Unfortunately I’m not clever enough to predict what’s going to happen, if I knew for certain that the Uk is going to fall pieces i wouldn’t hang around. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. Can you provide a link to the probe or legal enquiry that shows they get an EU pension and via what route they attained it." Just Google 'Neil Kinnock EU pension' or 'Peter Mandelson EU pension'. It's really not difficult to find out. Kinnock is a former EU commission vice President and now picks up a healthy pension for that role, as does Peter Mandelson for his former role as EU trade commissioner. There are other peers in the House of Lords who also pick up generous EU pensions from their previous roles working in the bureaucracy of the EU. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. Would those be the EU pensions that your UKIPy mates like Farage will benefit from?" Unlike the gravy train riders Kinnock and Mandelson, Farage campaigned to leave. | |||
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"It could be a lot worse i suppose i could of been born in a war torn crap hole of a country instead we have our downfalls but its not the worst place in the world far from best true" . How right you are, net migration was approx 270k last year.
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" Macron won by the skin of his teeth and has now become the most unpopular French President who ever lived. He has also admitted the french people would vote for frexit in a heartbeat if they were ever given the chance to be able to vote on it. His days are numbered and look forward to Le Pen winning the next election (offering a EU referendum for the people of France) because Macron is now a busted flush. " There will be no Frexit after the French see what the reality of leave looks like from the British experience. | |||
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" Just Google 'Neil Kinnock EU pension' or 'Peter Mandelson EU pension'. It's really not difficult to find out. Kinnock is a former EU commission vice President and now picks up a healthy pension for that role, as does Peter Mandelson for his former role as EU trade commissioner. There are other peers in the House of Lords who also pick up generous EU pensions from their previous roles working in the bureaucracy of the EU. " That's generally what happens, you work for an organisation and pick up a pension. Do you believe there'll be no bureaucracy consequences created in the UK by leaving? | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. Really? The Chancellor Philip Hammond forecast economic growth in the UK of 1.2% for this year this morning in his Spring Statement. Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's. Compare and contrast to Italy, Germany and France who are all in recession or about to tip into recession. You have France crippled by the yellow vest protesters and anti EU populist parties gaining more and more support with each passing election in Europe. Unemployment in Southern Europe in places like Spain and Portugal has skyrocketed under EU membership. The EU is a neoliberal job destroying economic basket case, and the sooner we're out the better. " “Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's.” And you believe this? You believe the government when with your own eyes you must be able to see that poverty is soaring in Britain right now. Homelessness has multiplied and thousands of foodbanks have had to be opened so people don’t starve to death. Yet you believe we have low unemployment?? The reason there is “record” unemployment is due to the way which the government records employment data - NOT because there is really low unemployment. The government count anybody who is not in receipt of unemployment benefit as being employed. Meaning those people you see sat in doorways on wet sleeping bags who are not in receipt of unemployment benefit are counted by this government as being employed! | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" All you can do is not vote ever again for Labour or conservatives. That leaves UKIP or a brexit party. The only time politicians care is when they lose votes. I feel the next general election is going to be devastating for the 2 main partys. | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. " “Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime.” The French infact warned the UK and US about Germany’s militarisation and rearmament in preparation for a war of conquest, but we chose to ignore them. Had we listened to our ally we could have avoided war and saved millions of lives. However some sadly saw the war as an opportunity to increase their wealth. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. So are you going to leave the UK ? If I thought the Uk was destined to fail I’d look to relocate somewhere else. Unfortunately I’m not clever enough to predict what’s going to happen, if I knew for certain that the Uk is going to fall pieces i wouldn’t hang around. " Quitter. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" Totally ashamed to be associated with the (I have no adjectives emphatic enough) reckless incompetence that UK parliament is unleashing | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. " They, them??? We are all collectively the E.U. I really do wonder where some people get the idea that the E.U. is a faceless entity with a mind of its own. It goes in the direction that it’s member states want it to go. We have been part of the direction for as long as we have been members and have been instrumental in creating some of the greatest EU achievements - like for example the Single Market. Talking about the E.U. in such snowflakey, third party terminology is akin to talking about mythical bogeymen and anti-heroes who don’t actually exist in real life. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. They, them??? We are all collectively the E.U. I really do wonder where some people get the idea that the E.U. is a faceless entity with a mind of its own. It goes in the direction that it’s member states want it to go. We have been part of the direction for as long as we have been members and have been instrumental in creating some of the greatest EU achievements - like for example the Single Market. Talking about the E.U. in such snowflakey, third party terminology is akin to talking about mythical bogeymen and anti-heroes who don’t actually exist in real life. Surely you are a superstate fan then and that opinion is just as valid as mine so there is no need to be so precious and dismissive to say that your opinion is the best one because you are clever and intelligent. " | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! All you can do is not vote ever again for Labour or conservatives. That leaves UKIP or a brexit party. The only time politicians care is when they lose votes. I feel the next general election is going to be devastating for the 2 main partys." I've already written to my MP (a Tory) and told her I'll never vote for the Conservative party ever again unless they deliver Brexit as promised in their general election manifesto. I would urge all other Leave voters and Brexit supporters to do the same. Write to your MP and put pressure on them.
My vote will now be going to Nigel Farage's new Brexit party. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! All you can do is not vote ever again for Labour or conservatives. That leaves UKIP or a brexit party. The only time politicians care is when they lose votes. I feel the next general election is going to be devastating for the 2 main partys. I've already written to my MP (a Tory) and told her I'll never vote for the Conservative party ever again unless they deliver Brexit as promised in their general election manifesto. I would urge all other Leave voters and Brexit supporters to do the same. Write to your MP and put pressure on them.
My vote will now be going to Nigel Farage's new Brexit party. "If they’ve already lost you then it is unlikely to influence them. How is the march going? | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. “Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime.” The French infact warned the UK and US about Germany’s militarisation and rearmament in preparation for a war of conquest, but we chose to ignore them. Had we listened to our ally we could have avoided war and saved millions of lives. However some sadly saw the war as an opportunity to increase their wealth. " we and the rest of europe would do well to remember just who destroyed the bulk of the german land forces the Russian army and its people they ground down the best of the German divisions | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. “Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime.” The French infact warned the UK and US about Germany’s militarisation and rearmament in preparation for a war of conquest, but we chose to ignore them. Had we listened to our ally we could have avoided war and saved millions of lives. However some sadly saw the war as an opportunity to increase their wealth. we and the rest of europe would do well to remember just who destroyed the bulk of the german land forces the Russian army and its people they ground down the best of the German divisions " Maybe we could all look forward rather than look back - this from a historian  | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. “Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime.” The French infact warned the UK and US about Germany’s militarisation and rearmament in preparation for a war of conquest, but we chose to ignore them. Had we listened to our ally we could have avoided war and saved millions of lives. However some sadly saw the war as an opportunity to increase their wealth. we and the rest of europe would do well to remember just who destroyed the bulk of the german land forces the Russian army and its people they ground down the best of the German divisions " I agree, however I must say though that many who fought and died in the Soviet Army were not Russian at all and had as much reason to hate the Soviet Union as eventually Jews would hate the Nazis. | |||
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" They, them??? We are all collectively the E.U. I really do wonder where some people get the idea that the E.U. is a faceless entity with a mind of its own. It goes in the direction that it’s member states want it to go. We have been part of the direction for as long as we have been members and have been instrumental in creating some of the greatest EU achievements - like for example the Single Market. Talking about the E.U. in such snowflakey, third party terminology is akin to talking about mythical bogeymen and anti-heroes who don’t actually exist in real life. " If the incompetence and silly games of the UK in the last two years are anything to go by, is it any wonder our politicians complain not being able to get their own way in Europe? They’re a fucking embarrassment. | |||
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"People voted to leave, but nobody voted for a shitshow being organised by people who couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I feel a lot of brexiteers have no idea what a no deal brexit really means and expect it to just be "Stop giving EU money, get r cuntry bak" when it's significantly more complicated than that. Would you rather our MPs agree to sailing out the sinking ship they are on, or keep it in the harbour? " But it was entirely predictable and expected, wasn't it? There was never at any point any agreement on what 'leave' meant. So of course it can't be actually delivered. -Matt | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. " “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. | |||
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"People voted to leave, but nobody voted for a shitshow being organised by people who couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I feel a lot of brexiteers have no idea what a no deal brexit really means and expect it to just be "Stop giving EU money, get r cuntry bak" when it's significantly more complicated than that. Would you rather our MPs agree to sailing out the sinking ship they are on, or keep it in the harbour? The EU is the sinking ship, and Brexit is the lifeboat which gives us the means to escape it. " You were sold on that Centy, and you believed the lies. You were told the ship was sinking and that there was a lifeboat. Now you've jumped overboard, you've realised that you've actually got a £2.99 rubber ring from a Weymouth beach shop and the ship is sailing off without you. -Matt | |||
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"People voted to leave, but nobody voted for a shitshow being organised by people who couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper bag. I feel a lot of brexiteers have no idea what a no deal brexit really means and expect it to just be "Stop giving EU money, get r cuntry bak" when it's significantly more complicated than that. Would you rather our MPs agree to sailing out the sinking ship they are on, or keep it in the harbour? The EU is the sinking ship, and Brexit is the lifeboat which gives us the means to escape it. You were sold on that Centy, and you believed the lies. You were told the ship was sinking and that there was a lifeboat. Now you've jumped overboard, you've realised that you've actually got a £2.99 rubber ring from a Weymouth beach shop and the ship is sailing off without you. -Matt" Exactly lol | |||
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"No deal is better than a shit deal. We will get a shit deal for more years to come. It is clear that obstacles are being placed in our way by euro minions as they do want the 'easy Cash cow' to wander off into the sunset. If you happy to be governed by people who will use their power to exercise their opportunity to pull down your pants and fuck you rigid then that is your option. Europe would do well to remember that without us 70 odd years ago they would all be speaking German and answering to a full on facist regime. Additionally they know that if we are able to leave on our terms several other countries will follow suit. Then their own 'gravy trains' will disappear before their eyes. Without us? As in You, Tom and Harry? Don't take claim for something you took no part in and don't try to speak for the dead." I am taking 'no claim' as you put it and I do not speak for the dead, I speak of the dead. Your Tom Dick & Harry quip is mildly amusing though, so not every you thing you think is totally pointless. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. " Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation" The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. | |||
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"The point is There's been a vote and the result was leave It appears that that won't be delivered on, we aren't a democracy if we don't leave Action by the masses will be required to change it - however, most will be too engrossed in the soaps and dancing programmes on TV to be arsed " We aren’t a democracy anyway. We are an oligarchy - which is why we are faced with leaving the EU | |||
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"The UK is a single market of three different legal jurisdictions and the EU is a single market of 28 + 4 different legal jurisdictions. Single markets require common standards, rules and regulations to work. In both markets, elected representatives are accountable for changing and introducing regulations. In the EU, it is the Council of Ministers and its various committees that accept or reject proposals, or bring forward proposals themselves. These are voted on by elected representatives of the 28 member states. The Commission enacts those decisions - the civil service, if you like. The Parliament scrutinises the actions of the Commission. The UK voting record is about 90 per cent for. Those issues where it was outvoted tended to be on financial regulation. In my eyes, it is really no more or less democratic a system of regulating the single market than the one that exists in the UK where the power of regulation in areas outwith the scope of EU law sits variously with four elected institutions within a single state. " | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" Sadly there is a lot in what you say,yes democracy has been taken from us.The odd thing is the remoaners will realise that not having democracy does them no favours in the long run either | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. " 100% garbage | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage" How do we get a ticket to the alternative universe you live in? | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage How do we get a ticket to the alternative universe you live in?" good one | |||
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"Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? It is sad that because the bravery of British soldiers and citizens gave their lives for the future of individuals such as you 2-3 generations ago that you deem it worth no longer remembering. I hope that you find a moment to reflect upon that banal statement in between defacing war memorials." Those soldiers along with millions of others from other allied countries gave this life. No one is saying their sacrifice is forgotten but using them for your political agendas is nothing less than shameful. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage How do we get a ticket to the alternative universe you live in?" The same booking office you use | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage" Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"? | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"?" Suggest you take a long hard look at what has been going on in France over the last 3 to 4 months with the yellow vest protests. Massive disconnect between the people and the ruling elite. The police are not mobilising there in anticipation of public disorder they've already been dispatched to try to control public disorder every weekend since early December because the ruling class has fucked up spectacularly. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"? Suggest you take a long hard look at what has been going on in France over the last 3 to 4 months with the yellow vest protests. Massive disconnect between the people and the ruling elite. The police are not mobilising there in anticipation of public disorder they've already been dispatched to try to control public disorder every weekend since early December because the ruling class has fucked up spectacularly. " No, because the French aren’t fucking morons like the Brits. They exercise their right to protest and pay attention to politics. Protesting for them is normal and begins when they are at school usually. You shouldn’t misinterpret their protests as them being worse off than us - they are not. | |||
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"Brexit has been a farce from the start. None of the consequences were properly explained to the country before we voted, and I’m sure the motivation for a lot of, “leave voters “, were unrealistic visions of taking our country back, clamping down on immigration etc etc, it’s all BS , and the country was hood winked. Yes I voted to stay, and I’m now throughly fed up with the whole thing. Pretty much, my dad somehow believes 'No deal just leave' is a thing that can simply happen, it's kinda sad I have a better grasp of it at 24 than he does in his 50s. Hate to say it, but as someone who favoured leave, i'd say the vast majority voting to leave have absolutely no idea what it involves and just have some warped worldview telling them the EU is stealing our money and our ability to vote in our own parliament. If I had £1 for every time I heard "Nigel farage for PM, he tells it like it is" i;d be able to buy a spaceship and leave by myself lol " I think farage is a twat he did have a lot to say and good points why we should all vote out then when we do and he fucks off | |||
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"Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? It is sad that because the bravery of British soldiers and citizens gave their lives for the future of individuals such as you 2-3 generations ago that you deem it worth no longer remembering. I hope that you find a moment to reflect upon that banal statement in between defacing war memorials. Those soldiers along with millions of others from other allied countries gave this life. No one is saying their sacrifice is forgotten but using them for your political agendas is nothing less than shameful." Nope Not being used for 'political agenda' merely being stated as a fact that those who fought did give their lives. There is nothing shamefully in stating it as a fact there is shame in belittling it and trying to disregard it because it didn't happen to occur in particular time frame. Allied soldiers and citizens did also give their lives and that is undeniably a fact too. | |||
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"Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? It is sad that because the bravery of British soldiers and citizens gave their lives for the future of individuals such as you 2-3 generations ago that you deem it worth no longer remembering. I hope that you find a moment to reflect upon that banal statement in between defacing war memorials. Those soldiers along with millions of others from other allied countries gave this life. No one is saying their sacrifice is forgotten but using them for your political agendas is nothing less than shameful. Nope Not being used for 'political agenda' merely being stated as a fact that those who fought did give their lives. There is nothing shamefully in stating it as a fact there is shame in belittling it and trying to disregard it because it didn't happen to occur in particular time frame. Allied soldiers and citizens did also give their lives and that is undeniably a fact too. " So why on Earth are you bringing it up in a political conversation if its not supposed to have a political agenda? | |||
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"Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? It is sad that because the bravery of British soldiers and citizens gave their lives for the future of individuals such as you 2-3 generations ago that you deem it worth no longer remembering. I hope that you find a moment to reflect upon that banal statement in between defacing war memorials." A.) Okay, you say the world should thank us, for the actions of individuals who on the whole, are sadly no longer with us. Is it right then, that individuals in Nations we subjected to colonial rule also blame us, in the present for what our ancestors did? How far does this go back? I'm part Greek, do I get thanks for the foundation of Western civilization. I'm also part Norwegian, do I get blame for the sacking of various cities and churches about 1200 years ago? B.) Really, you're going to claim I deface War Memorials? No evidence, not that it's needed, as I wouldn't do that, as my extended family lost members accross all nations fighting in both wars. C.) As I said,the War was fought on Geopolitical grounds, hence why it took the American's till Pear Harbour to get involved. Face it, in reference to the Second World War, outside of the occupied Nations, nobody owes us any thanks now. The debt is paid. Yes it's important to reflect on loss, and remember the myriad of reasons why it happened, but it's not a moral bargaining chip to be used, and the moment you use it as such, it's no longer something you can cling to as a high minded act of virtue. | |||
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"Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? It is sad that because the bravery of British soldiers and citizens gave their lives for the future of individuals such as you 2-3 generations ago that you deem it worth no longer remembering. I hope that you find a moment to reflect upon that banal statement in between defacing war memorials. A.) Okay, you say the world should thank us, for the actions of individuals who on the whole, are sadly no longer with us. Is it right then, that individuals in Nations we subjected to colonial rule also blame us, in the present for what our ancestors did? How far does this go back? I'm part Greek, do I get thanks for the foundation of Western civilization. I'm also part Norwegian, do I get blame for the sacking of various cities and churches about 1200 years ago? B.) Really, you're going to claim I deface War Memorials? No evidence, not that it's needed, as I wouldn't do that, as my extended family lost members accross all nations fighting in both wars. C.) As I said,the War was fought on Geopolitical grounds, hence why it took the American's till Pear Harbour to get involved. Face it, in reference to the Second World War, outside of the occupied Nations, nobody owes us any thanks now. The debt is paid. Yes it's important to reflect on loss, and remember the myriad of reasons why it happened, but it's not a moral bargaining chip to be used, and the moment you use it as such, it's no longer something you can cling to as a high minded act of virtue." Well please accept my apologies. I was unaware of the fortitude of your moral standards. Naturally, now you mention that your part Greek and part Norweigan I can totally understand your arguments. Incidentally it was Pearl Harbour. It is indeed a rare thing to become complicit with a Philosopher in a long boat. However, it does go some way to explaining your disdain toward Brexit since you labour your point of being of such distinct and rare heritage. Sadly, our opinions differ and since that is the way of the world I will respect your viewpoints and continue to have mine. Whilst I am merely English and cannot define myself as anything but I will continue to hope that when this mess is finally resolved there will still be a noble land that will ever embrace the diversity that inevitably finds its way to our shores. Be it from Athens, Oslo or Ulan Bator. Much love and good luck. Always admired Socrates... | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"? Suggest you take a long hard look at what has been going on in France over the last 3 to 4 months with the yellow vest protests. Massive disconnect between the people and the ruling elite. The police are not mobilising there in anticipation of public disorder they've already been dispatched to try to control public disorder every weekend since early December because the ruling class has fucked up spectacularly. " Yet you champion the ruling class here and voted for them to take more power, avoid paying taxes and get richer at our expense. | |||
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"Why should the world repeatedly thank us for actions now around 2-3 generations ago? It is sad that because the bravery of British soldiers and citizens gave their lives for the future of individuals such as you 2-3 generations ago that you deem it worth no longer remembering. I hope that you find a moment to reflect upon that banal statement in between defacing war memorials. A.) Okay, you say the world should thank us, for the actions of individuals who on the whole, are sadly no longer with us. Is it right then, that individuals in Nations we subjected to colonial rule also blame us, in the present for what our ancestors did? How far does this go back? I'm part Greek, do I get thanks for the foundation of Western civilization. I'm also part Norwegian, do I get blame for the sacking of various cities and churches about 1200 years ago? B.) Really, you're going to claim I deface War Memorials? No evidence, not that it's needed, as I wouldn't do that, as my extended family lost members accross all nations fighting in both wars. C.) As I said,the War was fought on Geopolitical grounds, hence why it took the American's till Pear Harbour to get involved. Face it, in reference to the Second World War, outside of the occupied Nations, nobody owes us any thanks now. The debt is paid. Yes it's important to reflect on loss, and remember the myriad of reasons why it happened, but it's not a moral bargaining chip to be used, and the moment you use it as such, it's no longer something you can cling to as a high minded act of virtue. Well please accept my apologies. I was unaware of the fortitude of your moral standards. Naturally, now you mention that your part Greek and part Norweigan I can totally understand your arguments. Incidentally it was Pearl Harbour. It is indeed a rare thing to become complicit with a Philosopher in a long boat. However, it does go some way to explaining your disdain toward Brexit since you labour your point of being of such distinct and rare heritage. Sadly, our opinions differ and since that is the way of the world I will respect your viewpoints and continue to have mine. Whilst I am merely English and cannot define myself as anything but I will continue to hope that when this mess is finally resolved there will still be a noble land that will ever embrace the diversity that inevitably finds its way to our shores. Be it from Athens, Oslo or Ulan Bator. Much love and good luck. Always admired Socrates..." Surely you should take a leaf from those who fought for this country & did all it could for the world back in 39. They went & helped there European friends like all good neighbours do,some even stayed in Foreign Fields marrying Some they met along the way. Instead of standing by what you think they did Maybe you should try to engage & actually live like they did. It would give you a much rosier outlook on life . P.S the English didnt fight as a Seperate unit during the war/s you mentioned. Havent done so for a couple of hundred years as far as British History states it. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"? Suggest you take a long hard look at what has been going on in France over the last 3 to 4 months with the yellow vest protests. Massive disconnect between the people and the ruling elite. The police are not mobilising there in anticipation of public disorder they've already been dispatched to try to control public disorder every weekend since early December because the ruling class has fucked up spectacularly. Yet you champion the ruling class here and voted for them to take more power, avoid paying taxes and get richer at our expense. " No actually. All the main political parties supported remain during the EU referendum campaign. The Tory party lead by Cameron supported remain, The Labour party lead by Corbyn supported remain, the SNP lead by Nicola Sturgeon supported remain, the lib dems lead by Tim Farron supported remain. If anyone supported the ruling class here and voted for them to take more power it's you. The only party fully supporting Leave during the referendum was Ukip who I'd voted for over many years, and I voted Leave in the referendum. I voted against the ruling class, you are the one who voted for them. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. Really? The Chancellor Philip Hammond forecast economic growth in the UK of 1.2% for this year this morning in his Spring Statement. Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's. Compare and contrast to Italy, Germany and France who are all in recession or about to tip into recession. You have France crippled by the yellow vest protesters and anti EU populist parties gaining more and more support with each passing election in Europe. Unemployment in Southern Europe in places like Spain and Portugal has skyrocketed under EU membership. The EU is a neoliberal job destroying economic basket case, and the sooner we're out the better. “Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's.” And you believe this? You believe the government when with your own eyes you must be able to see that poverty is soaring in Britain right now. Homelessness has multiplied and thousands of foodbanks have had to be opened so people don’t starve to death. Yet you believe we have low unemployment?? The reason there is “record” unemployment is due to the way which the government records employment data - NOT because there is really low unemployment. The government count anybody who is not in receipt of unemployment benefit as being employed. Meaning those people you see sat in doorways on wet sleeping bags who are not in receipt of unemployment benefit are counted by this government as being employed! " How employment and unemployment is measured in the UK is the same as the rest of the EU. It is defined and stipulated under EU regulation 577/98, with amendments in 2002, 03 and 07. Part of the reason behind the regulations is to ensure that figures across the EU are comparable. In other words, they're measured in the same way. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"? Suggest you take a long hard look at what has been going on in France over the last 3 to 4 months with the yellow vest protests. Massive disconnect between the people and the ruling elite. The police are not mobilising there in anticipation of public disorder they've already been dispatched to try to control public disorder every weekend since early December because the ruling class has fucked up spectacularly. Yet you champion the ruling class here and voted for them to take more power, avoid paying taxes and get richer at our expense. No actually. All the main political parties supported remain during the EU referendum campaign. The Tory party lead by Cameron supported remain, The Labour party lead by Corbyn supported remain, the SNP lead by Nicola Sturgeon supported remain, the lib dems lead by Tim Farron supported remain. If anyone supported the ruling class here and voted for them to take more power it's you. The only party fully supporting Leave during the referendum was Ukip who I'd voted for over many years, and I voted Leave in the referendum. I voted against the ruling class, you are the one who voted for them. " Come on now! That’s just silly! Do you truly believe this? Then there is no hope for you. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. " You're incorrect. This from the EU website explaining EU law and regulations. "Regulations Regulations are legal acts that apply automatically and uniformly to all EU countries as soon as they enter into force, without needing to be transposed into national law. They are binding in their entirety on all EU countries." And EU regulations do not just cover trade. There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive. The only time where a member state can 'choose to legislate' is where an EU Institution either makes a recommendation or voices an opinion. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. " Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"?" France | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. Would those be the EU pensions that your UKIPy mates like Farage will benefit from? Unlike the gravy train riders Kinnock and Mandelson, Farage campaigned to leave. " Farage didn't turn up to do the job he was elected for. Most of your post is either jingoistic garbage or simply untrue. If you can't evidence stuff from reputable sources don't post it. | |||
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" France" Dysfunctional government? Humiliated leader? Moribund Parliament? A country pursuing policies it knows will make citizens poorer? | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. Really? The Chancellor Philip Hammond forecast economic growth in the UK of 1.2% for this year this morning in his Spring Statement. Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's. Compare and contrast to Italy, Germany and France who are all in recession or about to tip into recession. You have France crippled by the yellow vest protesters and anti EU populist parties gaining more and more support with each passing election in Europe. Unemployment in Southern Europe in places like Spain and Portugal has skyrocketed under EU membership. The EU is a neoliberal job destroying economic basket case, and the sooner we're out the better. “Plus outlined how employment in the UK is now at record levels and unemployment at its lowest level since the 1970's.” And you believe this? You believe the government when with your own eyes you must be able to see that poverty is soaring in Britain right now. Homelessness has multiplied and thousands of foodbanks have had to be opened so people don’t starve to death. Yet you believe we have low unemployment?? The reason there is “record” unemployment is due to the way which the government records employment data - NOT because there is really low unemployment. The government count anybody who is not in receipt of unemployment benefit as being employed. Meaning those people you see sat in doorways on wet sleeping bags who are not in receipt of unemployment benefit are counted by this government as being employed! How employment and unemployment is measured in the UK is the same as the rest of the EU. It is defined and stipulated under EU regulation 577/98, with amendments in 2002, 03 and 07. Part of the reason behind the regulations is to ensure that figures across the EU are comparable. In other words, they're measured in the same way." Here, this should explain it for you... “LONDON - Unemployment in Britain is now just 4.5%. There are only 1.49 million unemployed people in the UK, versus 32 million people with jobs. This is almost unheard of. Unemployment was most recently this low in December 1973, when the UK set an unrepeated record of just 3.4%. The problem with this record is that the statistical definition of "unemployment" relies on a fiction that economists tell themselves about the nature of work. As the rate gets lower and lower, it tests that lie. Because - as anyone who has studied basic economics knows - the official definition of unemployment disguises the true rate. In reality, about 21.5% of all working-age people (defined as ages 16 to 64) are without jobs, or 8.83 million people, according to the Office for National Statistics. That's more than four times the official number.” “Why does Britain have no wage inflation, if the labour market is so tight? The answer is that unemployment is not really that low. In reality, about 21.5% of British workers are either officially unemployed, inactive, or employed part time even though they really want full-time work. (The ONS has a chapter on that here.) Some of those people - parents with newborns, university students - may not want jobs right now” “So yes, it's great that we have low unemployment in Britain. But it would be better if economists (and the business media) were a bit more up-front about how our definition of unemployment actually masks the real rate of worklessness, which today is quadruple the official rate.” https://www.businessinsider.com/unemployment-in-the-uk-is-now-so-low-its-in-danger-of-exposing-the-lie-used-to-create-the-numbers-2017-7?r=US&IR=T “The problem with the official rate is that it falls if an unemployed worker hasn’t sought a job in the past four weeks or can’t start one in the next fortnight. Once they stop seeking work, fewer people are classed as unemployed but no jobs have been created. These workers are instead labeled as “economically inactive”, and added to the students, stay-at-home parents, retirees and the long-term ill who haven’t recently sought work.” “This difference, between official and real unemployment, is particularly striking in Holborn & St Pancras. Official unemployment is less than 6 per cent in the seat, yet our true measure suggests 22 per cent of people are either unable to find or have been discouraged from seeking work in this pocket of north London, making it the twelfth worst area for jobs in the UK.” https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2016/03/hidden-truth-behind-george-osborne-s-record-jobs#amp https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/14/the-guardian-view-on-record-unemployment-not-the-whole-picture In the UK you are also counted as being employed even if you are receiving as little as one hour a fortnight under a zero hours contract. “Not all have an explicit ban, but it’s correct that most EU countries outlaw these contracts, heavily restrict them, or don’t see them widely used. The UK is one of around half a dozen European countries where zero hours contracts are both legal and fairly common” https://fullfact.org/law/zero-hours-contracts-uk-europe/ As you can see, our employment / unemployment data is simply unrealistic and certainly cannot be compared to other E.U. member states as many do not record employment as we do here. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. " I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. | |||
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"The only part of the EU that is falling to pieces, I’m afraid, is the UK. 100% garbage Tell me another country in the EU that is imploding like the UK - a country where both government and parliament are dysfunctional? Where the disconnect between the public and the politicians is as stressed as it is here? Where the police are mobilising for public disorder because the ruling class has fucked up so spectacularly? Nope, I can't think of one either. Perhaps you think this is "strong and stable"? France" I said this previously but I’ll say it again - the French are not fucking morons like the Brits. They exercise their right to protest. They generally are much more politically aware. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. " This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. " It seems you are correct. Thanks. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" Well go and live in another country then. Oh no you can't any more can you? You made your soiled bed, time to lie in it. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. It seems you are correct. Thanks. " To quote one of Dick Emery's characters ( bovver boy,Gaylord)" Dad I think I got it wrong again!" LOL | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. Would those be the EU pensions that your UKIPy mates like Farage will benefit from? Unlike the gravy train riders Kinnock and Mandelson, Farage campaigned to leave. " But will still be more than happy to take his EU pension....riding his gravy train whilst condemning it....hypocrisy or what eh? | |||
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"Thatcher said we should never let the people vote on such a complex issue as Europe. This was in the seventies, Cameron should have listened!!! "Yes I heard that on Jeremy Vine recently,like or loathe Thatchere she had a lot of very wise things to say in the interview and made a lot of sense. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Additionally can you point instances where our domestic politicians are ridding the 'gravy train'? Bribes? Investment funds? I get the argument of an MEP being biased as they have an EU centred job, but come on, support your claims. I'll give you some examples of Politicians in Parliament riding the EU gravy train, such as Neil Kinnock and Peter Mandelson in the House of Lords who have their noses firmly in the trough of generous over inflated EU Pension funds. Many in the House of Lords have vested interests in Remaining in the EU, as do MP's in the House of Commons who may hope to follow in the footsteps of Kinnock and Mandelson when their days in the Commons are numbered. Would those be the EU pensions that your UKIPy mates like Farage will benefit from? Unlike the gravy train riders Kinnock and Mandelson, Farage campaigned to leave. Farage didn't turn up to do the job he was elected for. Most of your post is either jingoistic garbage or simply untrue. If you can't evidence stuff from reputable sources don't post it." You mean any sourse that agrees with you,well we have brains and can read all views and make up our own minds,not like you | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Well go and live in another country then. Oh no you can't any more can you? You made your soiled bed, time to lie in it." Juvenile and uncomplicated response, which undoubtedly sums you up! If I wished to live elsewhere I could, if I did choose to migrate I would not be expressing shame but departing swiftly and quietly....something you may consider from this thread... | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. It seems you are correct. Thanks. To quote one of Dick Emery's characters ( bovver boy,Gaylord)" Dad I think I got it wrong again!" LOL "I don’t profess to know all things. Unlike yourself and another here, I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong. Only a fool keeps arguing when the facts show something different - which brings me back to you. If you want a pissing contest then it was only last week I had to point out to you we live in representative democracy! You’re waiting to pounce any time I make an error is pathetic like yourself. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. It seems you are correct. Thanks. To quote one of Dick Emery's characters ( bovver boy,Gaylord)" Dad I think I got it wrong again!" LOL
I don’t profess to know all things.
Unlike yourself and another here, I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong. Only a fool keeps arguing when the facts show something different - which brings me back to you. If you want a pissing contest then it was only last week I had to point out to you we live in representative democracy!
You’re waiting to pounce any time I make an error is pathetic like yourself."I think a nerve has been touched...ouch! | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. It seems you are correct. Thanks. To quote one of Dick Emery's characters ( bovver boy,Gaylord)" Dad I think I got it wrong again!" LOL
I don’t profess to know all things.
Unlike yourself and another here, I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong. Only a fool keeps arguing when the facts show something different - which brings me back to you. If you want a pissing contest then it was only last week I had to point out to you we live in representative democracy!
You’re waiting to pounce any time I make an error is pathetic like yourself.
I think a nerve has been touched...ouch!"This person is incapable of attacking the point - they only respond with little digs and personal attacks. Which I will not stand for. Especially from a person of their calibre. | |||
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"The EU is not a institution filled with benevolent old gentleman who have your interests at heart. It's filled with empire builders who dream of a European superstate and since 1975 successive governments have allowed it to intertwine more and more into our lives until their dream nearly came to fruition. Fine...... if you fancy a European superstate then that is what lies round the corner if we give up now. I voted remain but now I'm not so sure. 2.5 years down the line and tantalisingly close to giving the superstaters a message to reform their ambitions because we don't want it, we just want a nation of friendly nations that freely trade with each other. Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place. I don't want to send Euro MPs to a useless talking shop where people endlessly waffle with no executive powers because it lies in the hands of a powerful few. I certainly don't want a no deal so the worst case scenario is to completely surrender and be totally humiliated and have to accept any old bone they offer. For goodness sake the deal they've offered us is something of a blue print for future countries to use. Soon everyone will be wanting a UK type deal, not the softly softly mamby pamby Norway or Canada version that doesn't upset anybody. What on earth are our politicians doing, Brexit is so close and yet now further away than ever if the deal is not accepted. “Not an institution that makes our laws in some far away place.” They don’t make our laws, we do. ‘They’ are also ‘us’ as someone else points out. The EU doesn’t dictate laws to anyone. It makes regulations which member states then can - if they so wish, change their legislation to fall inline with these regulations for the sake of trade. Fine....... You obviously believe in the concept of a European superstate concept providing " regulations" that we should follow. What if we don't follow them. Do we just get a little ticking off or do we get fined for not following them. I think you'll find the latter is the case. I quote A regulation is a legal act of the European Union that becomes immediately enforceable as law in all member states simultaneously. Regulations can be distinguished from directives which, at least in principle, need to be transposed into national law. Regulations are in some sense equivalent to "Acts of Parliament", in the sense that what they say is law and they do not need to be mediated into national law by means of implementing measures. As such, regulations constitute one of the most powerful forms of European Union law and a great deal of care is required in their drafting and formulation The penalties of not meeting regulations are the loss of revenue through trade. Regulations protect us as consumers and citizens. The phone I am using to write this has E.U. regulations which protect my health. They require that my phone does not emit frequencies which could be harmful to me at a stated distance. If the phone did not meet this standard then it would not be sold within the EU, harming the nation which manufactures the phone. The seat belts and air bags in your car etc also comply to E.U. regulations to protect your life. The waterways and coasts of Britain have become cleaner places since we joined the E.U. because of environmental regulations. The EU flag that a brexiteer tried to burn, wouldn’t as the material complied with E.U. regulations that made it fire retardant. If we manufacture something to the standard set out in the regulation it means that product can be exported anywhere in the E.U. with ease. This obviously benefits us and our economy. A regulation we do not have to follow necessarily, but a directive we do. One such directive is the EU corporate anti tax avoidance directive that came in on 1st January this year. A directive that would also have benefited us in Britain as we currently lose billions to corporate tax avoidance each year. Oh dear....You really need to learn the difference between EU Regulations and EU Directives. I refer you to a quote from your previous post... “There are also 'directives' which say "you must achieve this, and you must put your own laws in place to do so". These national laws then have to be communicated to the EU, and the EU can take action against a member state if they think their law is not sufficient to achieve the objectives of the directive.” There is no need to follow a regulation ‘necessarily’. A directive as your quote above states - there is. This is direct from the EU website section on EU Laws. Try looking it up and learning something. Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. It seems you are correct. Thanks. To quote one of Dick Emery's characters ( bovver boy,Gaylord)" Dad I think I got it wrong again!" LOL
I don’t profess to know all things.
Unlike yourself and another here, I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong. Only a fool keeps arguing when the facts show something different - which brings me back to you. If you want a pissing contest then it was only last week I had to point out to you we live in representative democracy!
You’re waiting to pounce any time I make an error is pathetic like yourself.
I think a nerve has been touched...ouch!"Me thinks so! LOL | |||
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"Why does the internet make people say "methinks" so much? I swear if I heard anyone saying that in real life I'd think they had been recently lobotomised...." I have similar thoughts about idol people who want a share of what other people have worked hard for, do they not realise if they got off their fat arses they might have something too! | |||
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"Why does the internet make people say "methinks" so much? I swear if I heard anyone saying that in real life I'd think they had been recently lobotomised...." I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.  | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists!" Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant." Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... " Largest demographic to vote leave was the poorly educated. Second I believe was the elderly. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... Largest demographic to vote leave was the poorly educated. Second I believe was the elderly. " Where do you get this crap from,poorly educated? can you tell me how anyone has come to that conclusion. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... Largest demographic to vote leave was the poorly educated. Second I believe was the elderly. " Do you count yourself in that demographic, after all you didn't know the difference between a regulation and a directive the other day? Although you were happily preaching away as to what they were when you clearly didn't have a clue! | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... " You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... Largest demographic to vote leave was the poorly educated. Second I believe was the elderly. Where do you get this crap from,poorly educated? can you tell me how anyone has come to that conclusion." It’s pretty much common knowledge I thought but here you go... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/facts-support-mps-claim-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-education-higher-university-study-university-leave-eu-remain-voters-educated-a7881441.html https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/labour-mp-is-right-better-educated-people-more-likely-to-vote-remain https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034 | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. " Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others" Just admit you didn’t know and came out with a big load of shite Or apologise for the personal attack even? You don’t though will you because you’re in that demographic ain’t you pal | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others Just admit you didn’t know and came out with a big load of shite Or apologise for the personal attack even? You don’t though will you because you’re in that demographic ain’t you pal " Quite clearly the words of a poorly educated man! | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others" Wilful ignorance is the saddest. Enjoy  | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others Just admit you didn’t know and came out with a big load of shite Or apologise for the personal attack even? You don’t though will you because you’re in that demographic ain’t you pal Quite clearly the words of a poorly educated man! "Maybe I am but at least I’m not you. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others Just admit you didn’t know and came out with a big load of shite Or apologise for the personal attack even? You don’t though will you because you’re in that demographic ain’t you pal Quite clearly the words of a poorly educated man!
Maybe I am but at least I’m not you. "It was obviously the case, unfortunately you weren't that fortunate so you will have to make the best of what you have got! | |||
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"70% of voters whose educational attainment is GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%. " Where did you get this information from ? there is no mention of educational attainment on the ballot paper. | |||
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"YouGov Look up: Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union " Not disputing that i want to know where you get the education figures that you quoted from? | |||
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"YouGov Look up: Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union Not disputing that i want to know where you get the education figures that you quoted from?" That is the headline to the piece on the YouGov website. "The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%." I believe posting the HTML address might be frowned upon, but you are welcome to google it. | |||
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"YouGov Look up: Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union Not disputing that i want to know where you get the education figures that you quoted from? That is the headline to the piece on the YouGov website. "The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%." I believe posting the HTML address might be frowned upon, but you are welcome to google it. " got on the yougov website but i cant find it,not saying its not there but would be interested how they know what qualifications people who voted one way or the other unless it was a poll. | |||
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"YouGov did the analysis. Look up: Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union " Yes, older and wiser. | |||
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" got on the yougov website but i cant find it,not saying its not there but would be interested how they know what qualifications people who voted one way or the other unless it was a poll." Hahaha, I refused to be lured. They polled 5500 or so adults. Published June 27, 2016: "Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union We have now weighted our final poll to match the headline result, and the detail within it gives the best possible indication of how Britain actually voted last Thursday. The vote to Leave exposed significant divisions within the country, as every region of the country except Scotland, Northern Ireland and London voted to Leave. Geography is not the only fissure in the country. Voters differed significantly according to age and education. The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%. Age is the other great fault line. Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave. The vote on Britain's membership of the European Union cut across party lines, with significant division within Britain's main political parties. Conservatives voted to Leave, 61% to 39%. Labour voters (65%) and Liberal Democrats (68%) largely voted for Remain but significant minorities went for Leave. Only UKIP, where 95% voted for Leave, and the Greens, where 80% voted for Remain, avoided significant internal divisions on the vote. | |||
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So as far as im concerned cant be trusted. | |||
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" got on the yougov website but i cant find it,not saying its not there but would be interested how they know what qualifications people who voted one way or the other unless it was a poll. Hahaha, I refused to be lured. They polled 5500 or so adults. Published June 27, 2016: "Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union We have now weighted our final poll to match the headline result, and the detail within it gives the best possible indication of how Britain actually voted last Thursday. The vote to Leave exposed significant divisions within the country, as every region of the country except Scotland, Northern Ireland and London voted to Leave. Geography is not the only fissure in the country. Voters differed significantly according to age and education. The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%. Age is the other great fault line. Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave. The vote on Britain's membership of the European Union cut across party lines, with significant division within Britain's main political parties. Conservatives voted to Leave, 61% to 39%. Labour voters (65%) and Liberal Democrats (68%) largely voted for Remain but significant minorities went for Leave. Only UKIP, where 95% voted for Leave, and the Greens, where 80% voted for Remain, avoided significant internal divisions on the vote. " So it was a poll of 5,500 out of how many million? and they came to that conclusion.Personally i wouldn't be claiming this as fact. | |||
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"found out how, it was a university that apparently applied a "multivariate regression analysis and logit model"to areas that voted to leave. So as far as im concerned cant be trusted."It was peer reviewed. “The paper, published in the peer-reviewed journal World Development, applied a multivariate regression analysis and logit model to areas of the country to identify why people voted the way they did.” | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. "
A minute ago it was the stupidest thing ever said on a forum.
Tired of this crap from leave voters. You post facts at them and they run off.
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" So it was a poll of 5,500 out of how many million? and they came to that conclusion.Personally i wouldn't be claiming this as fact." It was their polling, yes. I have no doubt it is a factually accurate report of their polling results. 5500 is a decent poll, weighted for accuracy. YouGov is one of the better ones out there. If you have evidence from a credible source to contradict this, please share it. | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. " It's probably about as accurate as the Populous opinion poll released on the eve of the referendum which gave remain a 10 point lead. Then the very next day leave won on 52% A small sample of a few thousand people exposed as being totally out of step with the real result that millions voted in. | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. " I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts." I think Yougov also had remain down as winners in their poll before the referendum in 2016. Were proven wrong when the real results came in. Yougov polling was also wrong in the general election of 2015 (predicted a hung Parliament and Cameron won a majority) and again was wrong in the general election of 2017 (predicted a Tory majority but they fell short of an overall majority and had to do a deal with the DUP). | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts." Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. It's probably about as accurate as the Populous opinion poll released on the eve of the referendum which gave remain a 10 point lead. Then the very next day leave won on 52% A small sample of a few thousand people exposed as being totally out of step with the real result that millions voted in. " Nope, no evidence, just prejudicial statements as per usual. | |||
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" I think Yougov also had remain down as winners in their poll before the referendum in 2016. Were proven wrong when the real results came in. " Farage also had Remain down as winners before the referendum in 2016. He was wrong. Who's to say their polling in the days before the election was inaccurate? Did the headline figure exclude the undecideds? Did people change their minds? It's evidence. There's lots of it. Academia is fascinated by who voted and why. So they should be. That simple act of crossing a box will shape the United Kingdom for generations to come. It's important that people 20, 30 or 40 years from now understand why. | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? " Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was. | |||
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" I think Yougov also had remain down as winners in their poll before the referendum in 2016. Were proven wrong when the real results came in. Farage also had Remain down as winners before the referendum in 2016. He was wrong. Who's to say their polling in the days before the election was inaccurate? Did the headline figure exclude the undecideds? Did people change their minds? It's evidence. There's lots of it. Academia is fascinated by who voted and why. So they should be. That simple act of crossing a box will shape the United Kingdom for generations to come. It's important that people 20, 30 or 40 years from now understand why. " Farage was leader of ukip at the time of the referendum. Ukip donor Aaron Bank's commissioned and paid for a private poll in the week before the referendum. On the eve of the referendum Aaron Banks poll gave a 52% win for Leave. It was broadcast on the main TV stations before the real results came in. I think Aaron Banks poll was the only poll which accurately predicted the actual real result of the referendum. | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others Just admit you didn’t know and came out with a big load of shite Or apologise for the personal attack even? You don’t though will you because you’re in that demographic ain’t you pal " Bless xx | |||
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"I am totally ashamed to be associated with the United Kingdom after the farce that is Brexit. We have been betrayed by members of parliament who have failed to accept that the people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They have used their own influences to consider their own pockets and deny the democracy of this country. So many have 'gravy trains' that they personally ride with interests and investments in Europe that they have abandoned the very thing, as a country, we defeated Germany for in World wars. They should all be held accountable for being duplicitous and failing in their duty. When another democratic vote is held and the majority of people express their view, there is now a president set for a second or even a third vote to be mandated until they get what they, as no more than public servants, think is in their own interest. We should all refuse to vote in future and resign ourselves to what they want regardless. Democracy in the UK no longer exists! Some people voted to remain. A small proportion more voted to leave. Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change. Parliament accepted the result of the vote. Government tried to negotiate the impossible cake and eat it Brexit. Naturally, they have failed to deliver it but did the best they could. Nobody likes the result. Most dislike no deal even more. The option not even presented during the referendum campaign. You have accused MPs of making money by staying in Europe. Based on what? How more so than UKIP MEPs? All MPs are accountable in a general election. Not voting will not hold them accountable. Well thought out. However, I would be delighted if you didn't vote again. Lots of people don't get what they want in a democracy but in general the lies are not so blatant. Mmm your views are duely noted but your quote of 'Many of those have now died simply due to demographic change' has me a little perplexed. Do you mean that since some people voted leave have died then it alters the potential outcome of Brexit? If so, do you not think some people who voted remain may have died too? Do you have any evidence for the numbers of the leave voters who have passed away? I'm sure that it may have an effect bothways as indeed will the number of those who have become age eligible to vote in another referendum but all of it sounds like hypothesis to me. I suspect that you are inclined to guess your way through life or rely on the editorials in the Independent if these were your 'thought out' views... You are outraged at Brexit not being delivered to the people who voted for it. I am merely pointing out that that margin is no longer likely to exist. The voting patterns for referendum are heavily scewed by age. This is just one, relatively simple source for that information. Feel free to dispute it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45098550 This age preference is a generational trend based on attitude and world view, not simply a function of number of days on the planet. Brexit was largely to be imposed on those who do not want it and will have to live with the consequences the longest by those who will be effected the least. It is generally accepted as fact, without having to reference research, that more older people die in a given period of time than younger people. This means that statically, as reported in the Independent (well done) and other news organisations there will be more people who died who voted for Brexit than have come of voting age and would vote to remain. The point isn't if this is exactly correct. The point is the overall assessment that it is not even slightly clear that this is still "the will of the people". It does not make the referendum vote any less legitimate but it does make proceeding without reference to a changed population with access to very different information inappropriate. I duely note that this is the only point that you chose to address. I'm not guessing. I'm using the best information available. I cannot post links to the primary research papers. If you have greater insight, please do share. Statistics tell lies. Statistics can say what you want them to say. If you choose to believe those particular statistics and share the bias analysts who parade them and back them you will convince yourself they mean something. I do not claim insight nor do I evolve figures or statistics into man made evidence to try to imitate an opinion. I say what I think and that is all....it's could me thinking for myself and speaking for myself! Not regurgitating the rhetoric of others Just admit you didn’t know and came out with a big load of shite Or apologise for the personal attack even? You don’t though will you because you’re in that demographic ain’t you pal Quite clearly the words of a poorly educated man!
Maybe I am but at least I’m not you. "Such compelling arguments...bless xx | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it.
A minute ago it was the stupidest thing ever said on a forum.
Tired of this crap from leave voters. You post facts at them and they run off.
Bless xx
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was." unequivocally true
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !!" Beautifully put. | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !!" A phase 3 drug trial for worldwide licensing of a new drug is tested on a population of 1000-5000 people. What percentage of the global population is that? | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !!" Who said you were old and stupid? | |||
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"Largest demographic to vote leave was the poorly educated. Second I believe was the elderly. " Hahaha hahaha ... You know that is probably the most stupid thing ever broadcast on the forum ever! So stupid that it would obviously place You in that first demographic! Nobody can ever state those two things since neither the education or the age of voters was measured or regarded during the vote. Did you read this in The Independent or one of your other comics that Mummy gives you pocket money for? Please if you have to argue on here try not to say anything quite so childish again....hahahahaha " Oh dear | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it.
A minute ago it was the stupidest thing ever said on a forum.
Tired of this crap from leave voters. You post facts at them and they run off.
"From my experience on here you can post facts but leavers fight back with mostly fiction  | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !!" That's how polling and market research generally works | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !!" That's not how statistics work. 5,500 is a pretty big sample. Go Google "sample size" and "confidence interval". Come back when you've done that and we'll talk then pumpkin. The Remain case rests. | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !! That's not how statistics work. 5,500 is a pretty big sample. Go Google "sample size" and "confidence interval". Come back when you've done that and we'll talk then pumpkin. The Remain case rests." Pumpkin? How sweet A pretty big sample size? If you ask 5 people out of 16,500 then you would feel that the 5 people were completely representative of the other 16,495? I don't think so...oh my Gourd (play on pumpkin there for you) | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !! That's not how statistics work. 5,500 is a pretty big sample. Go Google "sample size" and "confidence interval". Come back when you've done that and we'll talk then pumpkin. The Remain case rests. Pumpkin? How sweet A pretty big sample size? If you ask 5 people out of 16,500 then you would feel that the 5 people were completely representative of the other 16,495? I don't think so...oh my Gourd (play on pumpkin there for you) " Did you bother actually looking it up? | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !! That's not how statistics work. 5,500 is a pretty big sample. Go Google "sample size" and "confidence interval". Come back when you've done that and we'll talk then pumpkin. The Remain case rests. Pumpkin? How sweet A pretty big sample size? If you ask 5 people out of 16,500 then you would feel that the 5 people were completely representative of the other 16,495? I don't think so...oh my Gourd (play on pumpkin there for you) Did you bother actually looking it up?" Probably not. Leavers quote poll data that shows no deal scenario as the most preferred option happily enough though | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !! That's not how statistics work. 5,500 is a pretty big sample. Go Google "sample size" and "confidence interval". Come back when you've done that and we'll talk then pumpkin. The Remain case rests. Pumpkin? How sweet A pretty big sample size? If you ask 5 people out of 16,500 then you would feel that the 5 people were completely representative of the other 16,495? I don't think so...oh my Gourd (play on pumpkin there for you) " Why are 5000 people not enough to trial a new drug then? | |||
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"found out how, it was a university that apparently applied a "multivariate regression analysis and logit model"to areas that voted to leave. So as far as im concerned cant be trusted."Is that because you dont know what multivariate regression analysis is or because you're more comfortable claiming all stats are tosh? | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was." If you do your sampling correctly 5,500 is plenty of people. The fact that a number of organisations have run their own analysis and come up with the same broad conclusions would suggest that there is a statistically significant link between age and voting choice and between educational attainment and voting choice. | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !! That's not how statistics work. 5,500 is a pretty big sample. Go Google "sample size" and "confidence interval". Come back when you've done that and we'll talk then pumpkin. The Remain case rests. Pumpkin? How sweet A pretty big sample size? If you ask 5 people out of 16,500 then you would feel that the 5 people were completely representative of the other 16,495? I don't think so...oh my Gourd (play on pumpkin there for you) " As you're clearly a bit slow (and ironically proving the YouGov result you're disputing) here is the info you need: For a population of 100 million (So quite a few more than the UK), a sample size of 2,654 (So quite a lot less than 5,500) will give you 99% confidence and a 2.5% margin or error. You can find this by Googling "Research-advisors and "sample size table". But hey, mathematicians are pesky experts right? And what the f*ck do they know? | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !!" I dont think you understand how stratified sampling works do you? | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was." Get over it. There's plenty of proof. You're just not educated enough to understand it. | |||
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"For those of you who think that 5500 represents a compelling poll when circa 33,000,000 voted then it actually represents a whopping 0.0001666 Of the entire voting public. It is very hard to dispute such a vast collective of those who decided. I think we must accept that the figures are damning and we are old and stupid, after all only a total genius would harbour such compelling facts !! I dont think you understand how stratified sampling works do you?" I understand what the process is but the logic is absurd! Stratified sampling depends on believing that you have an exact cross reference of people that are all exactly the same as the people you have not asked. That is the equivalent of saying that I have assumed that all individuals are the same as those polled. It defies any logical understanding of real people and assumes a belief, rather like believing there is a god or that this week's lottery numbers will all be even numbers. Correlation of the unknown. Say what you want, produce evidence of experts playing with numbers and who knows? It may be right but I prefer to consider the 'abject' belief that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. After all we all know that every poll carried out has always proven to be 100% correct....don't you? | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was. If you do your sampling correctly 5,500 is plenty of people. The fact that a number of organisations have run their own analysis and come up with the same broad conclusions would suggest that there is a statistically significant link between age and voting choice and between educational attainment and voting choice." So how come I have GCSEs A levels and a Degree but fall into a category described as below educational standard? | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was. If you do your sampling correctly 5,500 is plenty of people. The fact that a number of organisations have run their own analysis and come up with the same broad conclusions would suggest that there is a statistically significant link between age and voting choice and between educational attainment and voting choice. So how come I have GCSEs A levels and a Degree but fall into a category described as below educational standard? " Because your 51, your in the "other category" | |||
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"If you have any more compelling evidence, feel free to share it. I have no evidence at all and was very surprised that the government would know what qualifications everyone in the referendum had.Turns out they didn't so the education figures you quoted are from a poll of 5500 people and just because you read them on yougov website you quote them as being facts. Why are you getting so defensive about research about how people voted? Because i find it very insulting that remainers keep coming out with crap that leave voters are uneducated when there is no proof.If you think that a poll of 5500 people is a true reflection of the 33 and a half million people who voted i would have to question who the uneducated one was. If you do your sampling correctly 5,500 is plenty of people. The fact that a number of organisations have run their own analysis and come up with the same broad conclusions would suggest that there is a statistically significant link between age and voting choice and between educational attainment and voting choice. So how come I have GCSEs A levels and a Degree but fall into a category described as below educational standard? " A statistically significant link doesnt mean that everyone in a given category shares the same characteristics for goodness sake | |||
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