FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Brexit - what benefits does it bring - Part 2
Brexit - what benefits does it bring - Part 2
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
Genuine question, I have struggled over the past 3 years trying to understand the upside. Could someone help me?
Apparently, in our last thread this was answered. But it seems that Centy can’t tell the difference between fact and dream. What we would like to know is one single thing that will actually be better post 29/3? Just one would do, a simple, clear, unambiguous fact. So far noone has been able to provide anything... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have one very tenuous one. In the interests of balance.
Its a moral benefit, rather than an environmental, rights, or economic. Ironically it's probably one of the things that most leavers actually like about the EU.
It's the benefit that we won't be contributing to the wall to on the Turkey Syria border. It's very under reported, and it's in a similar vein to the wall Trump wants to build on their border with Mexico. It's a massive waste of money, and the EU is complicit in the way Turkey treats Syrian refugees, greeting them with machine gun fire.
I know this isn't a tangible benefit as such, but you could argue it's an ethical benefit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How can we keep sleep walking into this disaster?"
Because we voted for it, the PM said we'd get it if we voted for it but unfortunately the twat that said we could have it didn't want to sort it out himself once we got it  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Genuine question, I have struggled over the past 3 years trying to understand the upside. Could someone help me?
Apparently, in our last thread this was answered. But it seems that Centy can’t tell the difference between fact and dream. What we would like to know is one single thing that will actually be better post 29/3? Just one would do, a simple, clear, unambiguous fact. So far noone has been able to provide anything..."
Over year ago I posted this thread on Cognitive Bias and Brexit:
https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/706879
The intention was to make the case for the other side. Most Remainders gave it a go with various degrees of success.
Leavers failed completely. In fact, some could not even understand the question.
It's a pattern that has continued, as you have now witnessed. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
Take a look at inside out bbc1 london 7.30pm homeless eastern and central european vagrants sleeping on the streets of London.Acts of violence and shit all over the streets and not a thing they can do about it.They could deport them up to a year ago until it was ruled illegal because of the european court,hopefully after brexit we can send them all home bring down the homeless figures and make our streets a bit safer at night. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Take a look at inside out bbc1 london 7.30pm homeless eastern and central european vagrants sleeping on the streets of London.Acts of violence and shit all over the streets and not a thing they can do about it.They could deport them up to a year ago until it was ruled illegal because of the european court,hopefully after brexit we can send them all home bring down the homeless figures and make our streets a bit safer at night."
Cock and bull.
From Fullfact:
"the longer a migrant lives in the host country the more rights they get and the harder it is to remove them. It allows:
0-3 months when the UK can refuse individuals entry or deport them for public policy, public security and public health reasons
3 months – 5 years when the UK can deport individuals for public policy and public security reasons
5 years – 10 years when the UK can deport individuals for serious reasons of public policy and public security
10 years plus when the UK can deport individuals for imperative reasons of public security"
Public policy and security are crimes.
Any judgements are due to the European Court of Human Rights which we created and is not a part of the EU. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Take a look at inside out bbc1 london 7.30pm homeless eastern and central european vagrants sleeping on the streets of London.Acts of violence and shit all over the streets and not a thing they can do about it.They could deport them up to a year ago until it was ruled illegal because of the european court,hopefully after brexit we can send them all home bring down the homeless figures and make our streets a bit safer at night."
That will be the European Court of Human Rights. That is nothing to do with the EU. And that we are not leaving.
So why don’t you want to try and sort out the actual problem, rather than just blame some random entity that has nothing to do with it?
Serious question: what do you think leaving the EU will do to help make the situation you described above better?
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Take a look at inside out bbc1 london 7.30pm homeless eastern and central european vagrants sleeping on the streets of London.Acts of violence and shit all over the streets and not a thing they can do about it.They could deport them up to a year ago until it was ruled illegal because of the european court,hopefully after brexit we can send them all home bring down the homeless figures and make our streets a bit safer at night."
Seems a bit of an extreme solution. Ruin the country so that we can send back some people that you don’t like.
Surely it would be cheaper to just help these people? Sounds radical, I know. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
EU law on deportation
The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of Citizens’ Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is allowed.
The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of various factors are taken into account. These include how long the person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and financial situation, and how well they’ve integrated into society.
The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British citizenship applications).
For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or public security will justify expulsion. What a “serious” ground is must be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the directive as to what constitutes “serious”. It must relate to a fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion, countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.
The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the last ten years – or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, “imperative” grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than “serious” grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of public security, but the general meaning of “imperative” remains unclear.
Despite the fairly high level of protection under these provisions, the UK has been known to interpret the public policy and public security reasons for deportation quite broadly, in some cases arguing that rough sleeping counts. This decision is now being challenged before the High Court. The EU has also not taken kindly to this behaviour. The European Commission is currently investigating whether the UK is actually targeting EU nationals and if so, the UK would be in breach of its obligations as an EU member state. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"EU law on deportation
The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of Citizens’ Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is allowed.
The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of various factors are taken into account. These include how long the person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and financial situation, and how well they’ve integrated into society.
The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British citizenship applications).
For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or public security will justify expulsion. What a “serious” ground is must be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the directive as to what constitutes “serious”. It must relate to a fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion, countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.
The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the last ten years – or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, “imperative” grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than “serious” grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of public security, but the general meaning of “imperative” remains unclear.
Despite the fairly high level of protection under these provisions, the UK has been known to interpret the public policy and public security reasons for deportation quite broadly, in some cases arguing that rough sleeping counts. This decision is now being challenged before the High Court. The EU has also not taken kindly to this behaviour. The European Commission is currently investigating whether the UK is actually targeting EU nationals and if so, the UK would be in breach of its obligations as an EU member state."
If someone is sleeping rough, and is an EU citizen and has been in the country for more than 90 days, freedom of movement laws dictates that they have sufficient resources not to be a burden on the host nation, has to have comprehensive medical cover. Sleeping rough contravenes both of the FoM rules - if more than 90 days? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"EU law on deportation
The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of Citizens’ Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is allowed.
The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of various factors are taken into account. These include how long the person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and financial situation, and how well they’ve integrated into society.
The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British citizenship applications).
For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or public security will justify expulsion. What a “serious” ground is must be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the directive as to what constitutes “serious”. It must relate to a fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion, countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.
The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the last ten years – or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, “imperative” grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than “serious” grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of public security, but the general meaning of “imperative” remains unclear.
Despite the fairly high level of protection under these provisions, the UK has been known to interpret the public policy and public security reasons for deportation quite broadly, in some cases arguing that rough sleeping counts. This decision is now being challenged before the High Court. The EU has also not taken kindly to this behaviour. The European Commission is currently investigating whether the UK is actually targeting EU nationals and if so, the UK would be in breach of its obligations as an EU member state."
So the first chunk of information replicates that on Full act but less succinctly.
Neither the ECHR Nor the ECJ have made rulings then?
Several thousand EU citizens were deported last year.
Apparently it is in front of the High Court of the UK. Is that not acceptable legal entity?
What is your actual issue with this? It's not possible to deport non-EU citizens with more ease, particularly if they have residency. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"EU law on deportation
The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of Citizens’ Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is allowed.
The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of various factors are taken into account. These include how long the person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and financial situation, and how well they’ve integrated into society.
The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British citizenship applications).
For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or public security will justify expulsion. What a “serious” ground is must be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the directive as to what constitutes “serious”. It must relate to a fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion, countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.
The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the last ten years – or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, “imperative” grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than “serious” grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of public security, but the general meaning of “imperative” remains unclear.
Despite the fairly high level of protection under these provisions, the UK has been known to interpret the public policy and public security reasons for deportation quite broadly, in some cases arguing that rough sleeping counts. This decision is now being challenged before the High Court. The EU has also not taken kindly to this behaviour. The European Commission is currently investigating whether the UK is actually targeting EU nationals and if so, the UK would be in breach of its obligations as an EU member state.
So the first chunk of information replicates that on Full act but less succinctly.
Neither the ECHR Nor the ECJ have made rulings then?
Several thousand EU citizens were deported last year.
Apparently it is in front of the High Court of the UK. Is that not acceptable legal entity?
What is your actual issue with this? It's not possible to deport non-EU citizens with more ease, particularly if they have residency."
The benefit as i see it is that we will have control over who comes to the uk so the streets wont be full of people who just come over with no job or accommodation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"EU law on deportation
The law surrounding deportation in the EU comes from Article 28 of Citizens’ Directive 2004/38 which states that EU citizens can only be deported from another member state for reasons of public policy or public security. There are only three situations in which deportation is allowed.
The first requires that alongside the public policy or public security reasons, deportation can only be allowed if adequate consideration of various factors are taken into account. These include how long the person has been living in the country, their age, health, family and financial situation, and how well they’ve integrated into society.
The second situation concerns permanent residents, those who have have lived in a member state for five years or more (you are not required to have documents proving this, though it is necessary for British citizenship applications).
For permanent residents, only serious grounds under public policy or public security will justify expulsion. What a “serious” ground is must be justified by the member states, but there is no guidance in the directive as to what constitutes “serious”. It must relate to a fundamental interest of society. These include preventing unlawful immigration, maintaining public order, preventing tax evasion, countering terrorism and preventing repeat criminal offences.
The third situation is for those who have been in a member state for the last ten years – or minors. In these cases, only imperative grounds of public policy or public security will be accepted. Again, “imperative” grounds are up to the member states to justify and the directive offers no definition. However, it is clear that they are stricter than “serious” grounds. Therefore, the longer you have been in a country, the more difficult it becomes to deport you. Case law has accepted being involved in a drug dealing organisation as an imperative ground of public security, but the general meaning of “imperative” remains unclear.
Despite the fairly high level of protection under these provisions, the UK has been known to interpret the public policy and public security reasons for deportation quite broadly, in some cases arguing that rough sleeping counts. This decision is now being challenged before the High Court. The EU has also not taken kindly to this behaviour. The European Commission is currently investigating whether the UK is actually targeting EU nationals and if so, the UK would be in breach of its obligations as an EU member state.
So the first chunk of information replicates that on Full act but less succinctly.
Neither the ECHR Nor the ECJ have made rulings then?
Several thousand EU citizens were deported last year.
Apparently it is in front of the High Court of the UK. Is that not acceptable legal entity?
What is your actual issue with this? It's not possible to deport non-EU citizens with more ease, particularly if they have residency.The benefit as i see it is that we will have control over who comes to the uk so the streets wont be full of people who just come over with no job or accommodation."
We can add made up benefits to the list of things that aren’t actually benefits. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The benefit as i see it is that we will have control over who comes to the uk so the streets wont be full of people who just come over with no job or accommodation."
Even in the event of No Deal, the rules will be exactly the same on March 30 as they were on March 29.
Anyone from the EU can enter the UK and stay here for three months.
After three months, they need to be able to sustain themselves or they risk being asked to leave.
That is the current rule, too - it was our Government that chose not to enforce it by investing in the IT system required to police it.
The only difference is that EU law will no longer apply to EU citizens in the UK.
You've been sold a pig in a poke on immigration.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Oops, there will be one big difference.
In the event of No Deal, the authorities here lose access to the criminal records of people arriving from EU countries.
That automatic, computerised system will be replaced by mountains of red tape the authorities will need to fill in.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
if its europol you are talking about britain is one of the biggest intelligence contributors to it.If the EU want to cut britain out it will put their citizens in jeopardy too.So common sense tells me that wont happen and just another barnier scare story to get us to stay.I must commend you remainers for having a one dimensional view instead of seeing that co operation benefits all and that leaving the eu doesn't mean we cant be friends. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Much more basic than that.
A police officer called to an incident wants to check the identity of someone.
The name gets run through the police computer.
Automatically, their names are checked against databases EU-wide, not just the UK.
Unless there is agreement post-March 29, that will be severed.
The name will be checked only against UK records.
If the UK wants to check beyond these shores, it will need to apply as a "third country" each and every time it wants to run a criminal records check.
Another Brexit win - mountains of red tape for the police to fill out.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Much more basic than that.
A police officer called to an incident wants to check the identity of someone.
The name gets run through the police computer.
Automatically, their names are checked against databases EU-wide, not just the UK.
Unless there is agreement post-March 29, that will be severed.
The name will be checked only against UK records.
If the UK wants to check beyond these shores, it will need to apply as a "third country" each and every time it wants to run a criminal records check.
Another Brexit win - mountains of red tape for the police to fill out.
"
There you go answered your own post "unless an agreement is met" read above, do you not think the EU has the common sense to reach an agreement not going to re write what i just posted. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Much more basic than that.
A police officer called to an incident wants to check the identity of someone.
The name gets run through the police computer.
Automatically, their names are checked against databases EU-wide, not just the UK.
Unless there is agreement post-March 29, that will be severed.
The name will be checked only against UK records.
If the UK wants to check beyond these shores, it will need to apply as a "third country" each and every time it wants to run a criminal records check.
Another Brexit win - mountains of red tape for the police to fill out.
There you go answered your own post "unless an agreement is met" read above, do you not think the EU has the common sense to reach an agreement not going to re write what i just posted."
The EU has an agreement in place with the UK Government that would ensure this sort of thing continues. For two years, at any rate.
It's not the EU jeopardising it - it is British MPs in the British Parliament who refuse to approve it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Much more basic than that.
A police officer called to an incident wants to check the identity of someone.
The name gets run through the police computer.
Automatically, their names are checked against databases EU-wide, not just the UK.
Unless there is agreement post-March 29, that will be severed.
The name will be checked only against UK records.
If the UK wants to check beyond these shores, it will need to apply as a "third country" each and every time it wants to run a criminal records check.
Another Brexit win - mountains of red tape for the police to fill out.
There you go answered your own post "unless an agreement is met" read above, do you not think the EU has the common sense to reach an agreement not going to re write what i just posted."
Or even better, if we didn’t leave, we could keep all the good stuff and not ruin the economy |
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And back to the OP, we still haven't had anyone that can give one single example of something that will be a clear unambiguous benefit to balance against the billions of pounds that have been spent on brexit.
Come on, just one thing. How hard can it be? |
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"And back to the OP, we still haven't had anyone that can give one single example of something that will be a clear unambiguous benefit to balance against the billions of pounds that have been spent on brexit.
Come on, just one thing. How hard can it be?"
Struggling aren't they... 
Oh but we won't have a few homeless Europeans on our streets... Soon to be replaced by homeless car makers in Swindon...
If we leave europol the other 27 members who remain cooperating freely will be damaged just as much as we will, the laws of averages say not, if 27 criminals abscond from Germany to each EU country and the UK, the Germans still will have easy access to 26, whilst the UK will have to deal with the UK separately. If 27 UK criminals abscond to the EU the British will have to deal separately with 27 different forces unless a deal to continue with europol is done...
The mentality of the brexiteers who think we can leave but keep all the handy and beneficial things really beggars belief... I remember in the run up to the Scottish referendum when the Scottish announced they would keep the pound and the open border, and the oil revenues, the rest of the UK were saying, erm no, you have to take the rough with the smooth or leave it all behind...
But hey hey we're taking back control!!! Blue passports and sovereignty (that we've never lost) and a hole in the foot financially where breiteers seem to be pleased about shooting ourselves.
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There are no benefits!
It is clear from the weasel words of the likes of JRM and BoJo who have gone from telling everyone how great leaving the EU would be and how much better off we would all be, to invoking the Dunkirk and war spirit, telling us we will survive. Of course there is a big difference, we did not really have a choice when it came to WW2, our government could stop this madness today if it did not continually put party before country while wrapping itself in the Union Flag.
And yes, I voted out. But I voted out because after 40 years of watching my fellow countrymen and women vote in governments dedicated to grinding them down I came to the conclusion that the only way to break the cycle is to give the country what it keeps demanding at the behest of the Tory elite and with luck the Tory party will ch*ke on this act of betrayal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are no benefits!
It is clear from the weasel words of the likes of JRM and BoJo who have gone from telling everyone how great leaving the EU would be and how much better off we would all be, to invoking the Dunkirk and war spirit, telling us we will survive. Of course there is a big difference, we did not really have a choice when it came to WW2, our government could stop this madness today if it did not continually put party before country while wrapping itself in the Union Flag.
And yes, I voted out. But I voted out because after 40 years of watching my fellow countrymen and women vote in governments dedicated to grinding them down I came to the conclusion that the only way to break the cycle is to give the country what it keeps demanding at the behest of the Tory elite and with luck the Tory party will ch*ke on this act of betrayal."
Did you envisage Brexit going any other way than it has? Did you expect it would break the Tories, it nearly has, but it’s also nearly broken Labour too.
I voted remain, and what’s happening right now, is exactly what I thought would happen, what everyone said would happen. That it would be an impossible task and we’d be left a choice between a deal that is much worse than what we have being in the EU or a hard Brexit which will ruin the country. |
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"Did you envisage Brexit going any other way than it has? Did you expect it would break the Tories, it nearly has, but it’s also nearly broken Labour too.
I voted remain, and what’s happening right now, is exactly what I thought would happen, what everyone said would happen. That it would be an impossible task and we’d be left a choice between a deal that is much worse than what we have being in the EU or a hard Brexit which will ruin the country."
So many questions.
Yes it is going pretty much the way I envisaged for the most part, although it keeps giving 'gifts' (like the Tory willingness to climb in bed with the DUP and fuck over peace in Ireland and therefore peace in Britain to stay in power (although I should have foreseen that as they have done it before)) I had never considered. I did not foresee the deep divisions that have emerged in the Labour movement. I thought most of us understood that the enemy was the Tories not the EU even though the EU has many flaws.
My hope is still that the Tories force us out with no deal and within 12 months not only is their party and its low tax unregulated free market capitalist ideology destroyed for the next 100 years with it, but that we are rejoining the EU as a fully in member with no 'special opt-outs'. No doubt there will be many brexiteers who will find what I say treasonous, but I hope that empty bellies and having to walk everywhere because there is little or no fuel for prols (and that is what most of them are) will educate them to the realities of Tory anti EU propaganda and quickly change their minds. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Did you envisage Brexit going any other way than it has? Did you expect it would break the Tories, it nearly has, but it’s also nearly broken Labour too.
I voted remain, and what’s happening right now, is exactly what I thought would happen, what everyone said would happen. That it would be an impossible task and we’d be left a choice between a deal that is much worse than what we have being in the EU or a hard Brexit which will ruin the country.
So many questions.
Yes it is going pretty much the way I envisaged for the most part, although it keeps giving 'gifts' (like the Tory willingness to climb in bed with the DUP and fuck over peace in Ireland and therefore peace in Britain to stay in power (although I should have foreseen that as they have done it before)) I had never considered. I did not foresee the deep divisions that have emerged in the Labour movement. I thought most of us understood that the enemy was the Tories not the EU even though the EU has many flaws.
My hope is still that the Tories force us out with no deal and within 12 months not only is their party and its low tax unregulated free market capitalist ideology destroyed for the next 100 years with it, but that we are rejoining the EU as a fully in member with no 'special opt-outs'. No doubt there will be many brexiteers who will find what I say treasonous, but I hope that empty bellies and having to walk everywhere because there is little or no fuel for prols (and that is what most of them are) will educate them to the realities of Tory anti EU propaganda and quickly change their minds."
Good answer. No further questions. |
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Bump. Still waiting for a clear benefit from brexit that is worth the billions already spent on it. We could have used that money to eliminate the need for food banks and still had plenty of spare change left over.
Come on, how hard can it be? |
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Largest benefit for me is that I can laugh out loud at the amount of crap spouted by BOTH sides.
The bottom line is that we will be slightly worse off economically but slightly more independent.
If anyone talks about a paradise resulting from staying or leaving, or some form of Hades resulting from either course, I pity their mindset.....but enjoy their optimism or pessimism as I truly believe that it is laughably ill placed. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Largest benefit for me is that I can laugh out loud at the amount of crap spouted by BOTH sides.
The bottom line is that we will be slightly worse off economically but slightly more independent.
If anyone talks about a paradise resulting from staying or leaving, or some form of Hades resulting from either course, I pity their mindset.....but enjoy their optimism or pessimism as I truly believe that it is laughably ill placed."
No remainder has promised paradise.
Rwmain is pragmatic. |
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Bump.
Still waiting for any leaver to give one concrete example of something that will be better after brexit. Something that would offset the multi-billion cost so far. Something that would offset the reduced power and prestige of the United Kingdom.
I still won't accept increased sovereignty, as we will actually be kicked around by other countries far more. And certainly not bloodly blue passports.
And as for "we'll be saving all that money we give them" - if you look at how tax receipts are spent by the country, you will find that our contributions to the EU are about one tenth of our interest payments on the national debt. A debt that has been increased by the billions that we have wasted on brexit.
So come on, anybody. One benefit. One solitary benefit. How hard can it be. |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
"Bump.
Still waiting for any leaver to give one concrete example of something that will be better after brexit. Something that would offset the multi-billion cost so far. Something that would offset the reduced power and prestige of the United Kingdom.
I still won't accept increased sovereignty, as we will actually be kicked around by other countries far more. And certainly not bloodly blue passports.
And as for "we'll be saving all that money we give them" - if you look at how tax receipts are spent by the country, you will find that our contributions to the EU are about one tenth of our interest payments on the national debt. A debt that has been increased by the billions that we have wasted on brexit.
So come on, anybody. One benefit. One solitary benefit. How hard can it be."
It should be really easy for them & then we could all stop arguing once we know the secret code |
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"Did you envisage Brexit going any other way than it has? Did you expect it would break the Tories, it nearly has, but it’s also nearly broken Labour too.
I voted remain, and what’s happening right now, is exactly what I thought would happen, what everyone said would happen. That it would be an impossible task and we’d be left a choice between a deal that is much worse than what we have being in the EU or a hard Brexit which will ruin the country.
So many questions.
Yes it is going pretty much the way I envisaged for the most part, although it keeps giving 'gifts' (like the Tory willingness to climb in bed with the DUP and fuck over peace in Ireland and therefore peace in Britain to stay in power (although I should have foreseen that as they have done it before)) I had never considered. I did not foresee the deep divisions that have emerged in the Labour movement. I thought most of us understood that the enemy was the Tories not the EU even though the EU has many flaws.
My hope is still that the Tories force us out with no deal and within 12 months not only is their party and its low tax unregulated free market capitalist ideology destroyed for the next 100 years with it, but that we are rejoining the EU as a fully in member with no 'special opt-outs'. No doubt there will be many brexiteers who will find what I say treasonous, but I hope that empty bellies and having to walk everywhere because there is little or no fuel for prols (and that is what most of them are) will educate them to the realities of Tory anti EU propaganda and quickly change their minds.
Good answer. No further questions. "
Personally I think it's a shit answer and the absolute worst case of Disaster Socialism I've heard of in over 30 years in politics. I guess it's what happens to people who put their hate of those who oppose them above the good of those they claim to be fighting for. Real people are going to lose their jobs, their homes and their money. It's bad enough that the country faces this disaster because some people genuinely believed it would make things better and voted for it. I find it totally disgraceful and disgusting that some have voted for this, knowing the harm it would do but believing it's a price worth paying in order to score a political advantage.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/why-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster#aoh=15532883392047&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2018%2Fdec%2F16%2Fwhy-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster
You should be ashamed of yourselves, but, even worse than true BREXITERS, I doubt very much you will be.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
ARE you a Leaver who’s finally realising no-deal Brexit could come crashing down on you if May’s deal is rejected? Here’s how to pretend everything’s fine.
Make light of things to a ridiculous degree
Cheerfully say things like “A lot of bother going on with this Brexit, eh?” as if (a) you had nothing to do with it, and (b) you’re talking about some temporary roadworks in your town.
Blame someone else
MPs and Theresa May are to blame for messing up Brexit, right? It definitely wasn’t a fundamentally bad idea with terrible planning, like building your own ‘rocket car’ from an old pram with 500 fireworks taped to the sides.
Go into deep denial
Use the tried-and-tested psychological defence mechanism of denying reality, in the manner of an alcoholic who’s crashed his car again after 22 vodkas but is still just a ‘social drinker’.
Keep saying stuff like “This time next year we’ll be free and doing our own trade deals!” and spend plenty of time in the parallel universe of Daily Telegraph online comments.
Remember the good times
Cheer yourself up by remembering halcyon days of 2016 when you could go to a Leave rally and cheer and wear a red Brexit t-shirt without a care in the world! It felt like those days would go on forever, until it all started going wrong the next day.
Plead ignorance
Popular among elderly relatives who realise they’ve fucked up. You couldn’t have known Brexit was going to turn into a horrible mess, what with having no access to TV, computers, newspapers, radio, magazines, other human beings, etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Did you envisage Brexit going any other way than it has? Did you expect it would break the Tories, it nearly has, but it’s also nearly broken Labour too.
I voted remain, and what’s happening right now, is exactly what I thought would happen, what everyone said would happen. That it would be an impossible task and we’d be left a choice between a deal that is much worse than what we have being in the EU or a hard Brexit which will ruin the country.
So many questions.
Yes it is going pretty much the way I envisaged for the most part, although it keeps giving 'gifts' (like the Tory willingness to climb in bed with the DUP and fuck over peace in Ireland and therefore peace in Britain to stay in power (although I should have foreseen that as they have done it before)) I had never considered. I did not foresee the deep divisions that have emerged in the Labour movement. I thought most of us understood that the enemy was the Tories not the EU even though the EU has many flaws.
My hope is still that the Tories force us out with no deal and within 12 months not only is their party and its low tax unregulated free market capitalist ideology destroyed for the next 100 years with it, but that we are rejoining the EU as a fully in member with no 'special opt-outs'. No doubt there will be many brexiteers who will find what I say treasonous, but I hope that empty bellies and having to walk everywhere because there is little or no fuel for prols (and that is what most of them are) will educate them to the realities of Tory anti EU propaganda and quickly change their minds.
Good answer. No further questions.
Personally I think it's a shit answer and the absolute worst case of Disaster Socialism I've heard of in over 30 years in politics. I guess it's what happens to people who put their hate of those who oppose them above the good of those they claim to be fighting for. Real people are going to lose their jobs, their homes and their money. It's bad enough that the country faces this disaster because some people genuinely believed it would make things better and voted for it. I find it totally disgraceful and disgusting that some have voted for this, knowing the harm it would do but believing it's a price worth paying in order to score a political advantage.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/why-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster#aoh=15532883392047&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2018%2Fdec%2F16%2Fwhy-are-labour-party-leaders-so-quiet-on-europe---maybe-it-is-the-lure-of-disaster
You should be ashamed of yourselves, but, even worse than true BREXITERS, I doubt very much you will be.
"
I meant “good answer” in the sense that I understood his reasoning, not that I agreed with it.
He took a punt that it would fuck the Tories so badly that they’d never get in again, hence making the country better.
That’s a better reason than any of the catchphrases that the rest of the leavers fell for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Bump.
Still waiting for any leaver to give one concrete example of something that will be better after brexit. Something that would offset the multi-billion cost so far. Something that would offset the reduced power and prestige of the United Kingdom.
I still won't accept increased sovereignty, as we will actually be kicked around by other countries far more. And certainly not bloodly blue passports.
And as for "we'll be saving all that money we give them" - if you look at how tax receipts are spent by the country, you will find that our contributions to the EU are about one tenth of our interest payments on the national debt. A debt that has been increased by the billions that we have wasted on brexit.
So come on, anybody. One benefit. One solitary benefit. How hard can it be."
Very hard it seems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone."
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
"
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
"
I am not sure how you substantiate your argument.
“We buy raw materials” - yes, much of this from outside the UK, such as India and China.
We buy that at much lower cost than we could from within the UK.
So the cost to source from within the UK would mean many companies would be selling at a loss.
As I said you might find specific cases where what you say is true, but generally it isn’t. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone."
I understand what you're saying, but we do not have the market to provide the economies of scale to reduce costs to the level of a company freely supplying the entire EU.
Currency fluctuations are by their nature transient, but the liklihood is the currency will remain weak by virtue of the fact that buying assets and goods from the UK becomes less desirable.
Naturally UK companies will try to source locally out of necessity not choice.
Exports may become more competitive due to the devaluation of the currency, but input costs of raw materials or components have risen.
It will depend on tariff rates if we end up being flooded by cheap imports or not.
Economists for Free Trade think that is the most likely and desirable outcome and we just lose manufacturing.
The net outcome is likely to be that we just pay more for the same stuff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
I am not sure how you substantiate your argument.
“We buy raw materials” - yes, much of this from outside the UK, such as India and China.
We buy that at much lower cost than we could from within the UK.
So the cost to source from within the UK would mean many companies would be selling at a loss.
As I said you might find specific cases where what you say is true, but generally it isn’t. "
You are not involved in component manufacturing for anything that has a quality procedure that excludes materials from non prescribed sources or understands how advanced manufacturing totally changes the need for for low skill, low wages.
I am and I can tell you we can compete in the world market with anyone, we need a government that supports innovation and investment.
Perhaps selfishly.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think this poster should be commended for trying. At least someone had the balls to think about it and try to define a positive.
It’s complex because as British companies are forced to source components domestically, that is a potential benefit, but we won’t know if it’s offset by losses that component makers will feel if they currently sell their products on the international market. And what effect the exodus of manufacturing plants will have on such suppliers. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" What we would like to know is one single thing that will actually be better post 29/3? Just one would do, a simple, clear, unambiguous fact. So far noone has been able to provide anything..."
Farage will be out a job.
And if it's hard Brexit, no £70k grand a year pension for the rest of his life.
I'd vote for that.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think this poster should be commended for trying. At least someone had the balls to think about it and try to define a positive.
It’s complex because as British companies are forced to source components domestically, that is a potential benefit, but we won’t know if it’s offset by losses that component makers will feel if they currently sell their products on the international market. And what effect the exodus of manufacturing plants will have on such suppliers."
I have seen so much lost, we have virtually no machine tool companies left,
We emigrated to oz twenty years ago and there was so much positivity and uk and SA engineers were very sought after.
We came back for family reasons, so I have no problem with positive migration, my opinion, as a An employer of 9 people, having a Hons degree in engineering and lived abroad is Mays deal is awful.
UK manufacturing will be better of outside the EU
X |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think this poster should be commended for trying. At least someone had the balls to think about it and try to define a positive.
It’s complex because as British companies are forced to source components domestically, that is a potential benefit, but we won’t know if it’s offset by losses that component makers will feel if they currently sell their products on the international market. And what effect the exodus of manufacturing plants will have on such suppliers.
I have seen so much lost, we have virtually no machine tool companies left,
We emigrated to oz twenty years ago and there was so much positivity and uk and SA engineers were very sought after.
We came back for family reasons, so I have no problem with positive migration, my opinion, as a An employer of 9 people, having a Hons degree in engineering and lived abroad is Mays deal is awful.
UK manufacturing will be better of outside the EU
X"
Maybe, I don’t like May’s deal either. But being in a much larger market by being part of the E.U. would be better again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think this poster should be commended for trying. At least someone had the balls to think about it and try to define a positive.
It’s complex because as British companies are forced to source components domestically, that is a potential benefit, but we won’t know if it’s offset by losses that component makers will feel if they currently sell their products on the international market. And what effect the exodus of manufacturing plants will have on such suppliers.
I have seen so much lost, we have virtually no machine tool companies left,
We emigrated to oz twenty years ago and there was so much positivity and uk and SA engineers were very sought after.
We came back for family reasons, so I have no problem with positive migration, my opinion, as a An employer of 9 people, having a Hons degree in engineering and lived abroad is Mays deal is awful.
UK manufacturing will be better of outside the EU
X
Maybe, I don’t like May’s deal either. But being in a much larger market by being part of the E.U. would be better again. "
Being part of an economic similar grroup yes 
Adding so more without a plan is crazy.
We have an office in Ukraine, it pays for itself but we wre holding back to see how things work out.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
I am not sure how you substantiate your argument.
“We buy raw materials” - yes, much of this from outside the UK, such as India and China.
We buy that at much lower cost than we could from within the UK.
So the cost to source from within the UK would mean many companies would be selling at a loss.
As I said you might find specific cases where what you say is true, but generally it isn’t.
You are not involved in component manufacturing for anything that has a quality procedure that excludes materials from non prescribed sources or understands how advanced manufacturing totally changes the need for for low skill, low wages.
I am and I can tell you we can compete in the world market with anyone, we need a government that supports innovation and investment.
Perhaps selfishly.
"
You’re clearly talking about your niche company and trying to apply that nationally to all British companies.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
I am not sure how you substantiate your argument.
“We buy raw materials” - yes, much of this from outside the UK, such as India and China.
We buy that at much lower cost than we could from within the UK.
So the cost to source from within the UK would mean many companies would be selling at a loss.
As I said you might find specific cases where what you say is true, but generally it isn’t.
You are not involved in component manufacturing for anything that has a quality procedure that excludes materials from non prescribed sources or understands how advanced manufacturing totally changes the need for for low skill, low wages.
I am and I can tell you we can compete in the world market with anyone, we need a government that supports innovation and investment.
Perhaps selfishly.
You’re clearly talking about your niche company and trying to apply that nationally to all British companies.
"
Not niche
Do you know anything? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
I am not sure how you substantiate your argument.
“We buy raw materials” - yes, much of this from outside the UK, such as India and China.
We buy that at much lower cost than we could from within the UK.
So the cost to source from within the UK would mean many companies would be selling at a loss.
As I said you might find specific cases where what you say is true, but generally it isn’t.
You are not involved in component manufacturing for anything that has a quality procedure that excludes materials from non prescribed sources or understands how advanced manufacturing totally changes the need for for low skill, low wages.
I am and I can tell you we can compete in the world market with anyone, we need a government that supports innovation and investment.
Perhaps selfishly.
You’re clearly talking about your niche company and trying to apply that nationally to all British companies.
Not niche
Do you know anything?"
As you’ve not said what your company does it makes it slightly difficult... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The possible friction at the borders is pushing uk manufacturers to source more components from uk companies.
We produce at component level and have never been so busy, some Is inventory loading but talking to buyers there Brexit plan is to source locally, take advantage of the weakness of the pound for exports after adding as much value here.
Hopefully we can grow our manufacturing, it’s a pity almost all our machine tool production is gone.
The costs would be significantly higher for many UK companies having to source their materials or parts from within the UK, meaning they wouldn’t be competitive in the market and would have to sell at a loss.
You might find specific cases where what you say may have some truth to it, but overall most would be worse off.
I’m talking fact, not sure how you substantiate your argument.
We buy raw materials, add value through processing and sell on.
The components become part of a bigger item that sells on, mostly outside of the EU, but either way the currency situation helps our exporters.
The op asked for positives from Brexit, I’m telling you our experience.
I am not sure how you substantiate your argument.
“We buy raw materials” - yes, much of this from outside the UK, such as India and China.
We buy that at much lower cost than we could from within the UK.
So the cost to source from within the UK would mean many companies would be selling at a loss.
As I said you might find specific cases where what you say is true, but generally it isn’t.
You are not involved in component manufacturing for anything that has a quality procedure that excludes materials from non prescribed sources or understands how advanced manufacturing totally changes the need for for low skill, low wages.
I am and I can tell you we can compete in the world market with anyone, we need a government that supports innovation and investment.
Perhaps selfishly.
You’re clearly talking about your niche company and trying to apply that nationally to all British companies.
Not niche
Do you know anything?
As you’ve not said what your company does it makes it slightly difficult..."
Your optimism is not shared by many UK companies in any case - manufacturing or otherwise.
You may have a company of 9 but there are companies with hundreds and thousands who have made their stance quite clear. Look at the concern shown by Carolyn Fairbairn head of CBI.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The op asked a question, I answered it.
We are a general run of the mill sme, not niche.
We produce a wide range of parts for customers across many sectors and can see positives from Brexit.
Others may need to change their buying processes and grasp the new opportunities, some people just want to trudge on others see exciting new opportunities from change. |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
"The op asked a question, I answered it.
We are a general run of the mill sme, not niche.
We produce a wide range of parts for customers across many sectors and can see positives from Brexit.
Others may need to change their buying processes and grasp the new opportunities, some people just want to trudge on others see exciting new opportunities from change."
Ok forgive me if I have missed your point. You say that you will do better post Brexit - is that not simly an opinion? |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"Genuine question, I have struggled over the past 3 years trying to understand the upside. Could someone help me?
"
I posted this on another thread on hard brexiteers, confusion and 2nd referendums (I voted remain btw).
The answer to the question - no one knows as we haven't entered the trade deal part of the negotiation. We are only at the the withdrawal stage which can't be agreed on.
"The deal an adoption of all EU rules, It isn't WTO rules the ERG/Brexiteers want. It is neither the customs union and single market we enjoy as an EU member that Labour are proposing.
This is why it is getting voted out - it isn't hard enough - it isn't soft enough.
Until 2020 if agreed, we have a transition/implementation period where all EU rules will apply. In this period the negotiation of which rules we want to apply begins. After this date the EU will be fined every year (I believe), if the border issue with N.I is not resolved but talks can continue indefinitely if not resolved. After this date, is when we exit but the transition is to allow businesses to know what is included/excluded in the final trade agreement.
(I think I am reasonably correct here)".
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not an opinion I’m talking of actions of buyers now.
An answer to the fear of friction at the border is to buy from component manufacturers here, it’s already happening. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not an opinion I’m talking of actions of buyers now.
An answer to the fear of friction at the border is to buy from component manufacturers here, it’s already happening."
Well I think what you’re saying is interesting.
Will be interesting again to see how things are in another couple of years too.
In the big picture though, it doesn’t really answer the question of what benefit does Brexit bring. The question was meant in a broad sense, more than “how will it benefit a specific business”, it was more around, what benefits will it bring to uk as a whole, society, jobs, environment, freedoms, liberties, rights etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It’s a change in outlook for a sector, not just my small company and hopefully we will eventually have a government that will put in place plans that are specific to the advancement of this country, that sounds a bit ranty but you can get the gist. |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
"It’s a change in outlook for a sector, not just my small company and hopefully we will eventually have a government that will put in place plans that are specific to the advancement of this country, that sounds a bit ranty but you can get the gist."
Have you recruited many additional people yet? |
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"Genuine question, I have struggled over the past 3 years trying to understand the upside. Could someone help me?
I posted this on another thread on hard brexiteers, confusion and 2nd referendums (I voted remain btw).
The answer to the question - no one knows as we haven't entered the trade deal part of the negotiation. We are only at the the withdrawal stage which can't be agreed on.
"The deal an adoption of all EU rules, It isn't WTO rules the ERG/Brexiteers want. It is neither the customs union and single market we enjoy as an EU member that Labour are proposing.
This is why it is getting voted out - it isn't hard enough - it isn't soft enough.
Until 2020 if agreed, we have a transition/implementation period where all EU rules will apply. In this period the negotiation of which rules we want to apply begins. After this date the EU will be fined every year (I believe), if the border issue with N.I is not resolved but talks can continue indefinitely if not resolved. After this date, is when we exit but the transition is to allow businesses to know what is included/excluded in the final trade agreement.
(I think I am reasonably correct here)".
"
Why would the EU be fined for the NI border problem, when the problem has been caused by the actions of the UK? It's kind of like if you had an anti-social neighbour, and the council prosecuted you for not sorting out his mess!
Genuinely interested to know what the legal basis is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Not an opinion I’m talking of actions of buyers now.
An answer to the fear of friction at the border is to buy from component manufacturers here, it’s already happening."
But you are only talking about your company and others in the same situation as you. Many British companies will not benefit as you might - and that is the point of this thread. To give examples of benefits to the UK.
We never would have joined the EU if Britain could do so well on its own as you suggest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The op asked for a factual benefit, I’m giving you that.
Buyers are making changes to how they source supplies, not just in my sector.
There was a chap on R4 a few weeks ago talking about his textile company, they used to have the fabric printed in the EU.
They have now opened a plant to print onto the raw fabric here.
The raw material is only 15-20% of the manufacturering cost , then you add value through the processing.
No wonder most people don’t bother to answer on these threads because you only want answers that fit your view. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The op asked for a factual benefit, I’m giving you that.
Buyers are making changes to how they source supplies, not just in my sector.
There was a chap on R4 a few weeks ago talking about his textile company, they used to have the fabric printed in the EU.
They have now opened a plant to print onto the raw fabric here.
The raw material is only 15-20% of the manufacturering cost , then you add value through the processing.
No wonder most people don’t bother to answer on these threads because you only want answers that fit your view."
I’m pointing out the reality.
You may be an exception to the rule - but this thread is looking for benefits to the UK as a whole, not a few exceptions.
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
"The op asked for a factual benefit, I’m giving you that.
Buyers are making changes to how they source supplies, not just in my sector.
There was a chap on R4 a few weeks ago talking about his textile company, they used to have the fabric printed in the EU.
They have now opened a plant to print onto the raw fabric here.
The raw material is only 15-20% of the manufacturering cost , then you add value through the processing.
No wonder most people don’t bother to answer on these threads because you only want answers that fit your view."
Have you actually recruited anyone? You said you thought more business would come your way, fair enough, so have you staffed up to support it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way. "
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"
Why would the EU be fined for the NI border problem, when the problem has been caused by the actions of the UK? It's kind of like if you had an anti-social neighbour, and the council prosecuted you for not sorting out his mess!
Genuinely interested to know what the legal basis is."
It was mentioned during the Attorney Generals legal advice to Parliament. I have tried to find a news article reference to it but I am unable, I can only find references to 'penalty payments' and courts of arbitration.
"29.Negotiators have not agreed what would happen if the Joint Committee is unable to resolve a dispute. The European Commission has proposed that disputes that cannot be resolved by the Joint Committee will ultimately be settled by the CJEU at the request of either party. It has also proposed that the CJEU would be able to enforce disputes with a power to impose penalty payments."
"30.The Government disagrees that the CJEU should be the ultimate arbiter of the Withdrawal Agreement."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmexeu/1554/155405.htm |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position. "
You cannot use the argument that Brexit will damage manufacturing then say our manufacturing is shit to start with anyway.
Just for balance sake  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You cannot use the argument that Brexit will damage manufacturing then say our manufacturing is shit to start with anyway.
Just for balance sake "
And why not?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position. "
You really don’t know what you are talking about.
We have the same machine tools as the US and Asia, unfortunately most of them come from there as our machine tool industry was allowed to die.
Modern manufacturing is totally different to 20 years ago, highly skilled people using modern automation does allow us to compete.
Japan, Germany, Asia and the USA don’t have magic fairy dust.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You cannot use the argument that Brexit will damage manufacturing then say our manufacturing is shit to start with anyway.
Just for balance sake
And why not?
"
I don't think it makes a good sounding compelling positive argument. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You really don’t know what you are talking about.
We have the same machine tools as the US and Asia, unfortunately most of them come from there as our machine tool industry was allowed to die.
Modern manufacturing is totally different to 20 years ago, highly skilled people using modern automation does allow us to compete.
Japan, Germany, Asia and the USA don’t have magic fairy dust.
"
Your company may have up to date machinery but again, this an exception not a rule. For it to become the rule all other companies need to invest heavily. Is this possible? Can they afford it? And who are the investors that are going to put money into companies that are doing very well, especially when they could simply invest abroad.
Perhaps if we had a Corbyn led Labour government which would be willing to invest.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You cannot use the argument that Brexit will damage manufacturing then say our manufacturing is shit to start with anyway.
Just for balance sake
And why not?
I don't think it makes a good sounding compelling positive argument. "
Perhaps, but things can always get shitter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You really don’t know what you are talking about.
We have the same machine tools as the US and Asia, unfortunately most of them come from there as our machine tool industry was allowed to die.
Modern manufacturing is totally different to 20 years ago, highly skilled people using modern automation does allow us to compete.
Japan, Germany, Asia and the USA don’t have magic fairy dust.
Your company may have up to date machinery but again, this an exception not a rule. For it to become the rule all other companies need to invest heavily. Is this possible? Can they afford it? And who are the investors that are going to put money into companies that are doing very well, especially when they could simply invest abroad.
Perhaps if we had a Corbyn led Labour government which would be willing to invest.
"
*Aren’t doing very well |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter."
I still think you’re making interesting points.
How do you think the smaller market we have access too, and potentially increased tariffs, and the lag while these things are negotiated will effect the potential for uk manufacturing to expand? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter."
“To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.”
“British manufacturers are pulling back sharply on investment plans due to mounting uncertainty over Brexit and growing fears of a global trade war, a report has warned.
Just one-third of companies said they planned to increase their investment in plant and machinery”
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/01/uk-manufacturers-cutting-spending-plans-due-to-brexit
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter.
I still think you’re making interesting points.
How do you think the smaller market we have access too, and potentially increased tariffs, and the lag while these things are negotiated will effect the potential for uk manufacturing to expand?"
How will we have a less market access?
There may be tariffs initially but the movement in the pound has more than compensated for that at the moment.
We can still sell into any market, we have to meet the regulatory standards of that market which are going to be the same next Monday as they are now.
We will be a third country and will compete on those terms.
Initially it may cause disruption and the current fafing about is causing people to hold back just to see what happens but from change comes opportunity. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter."
Right. So you are saying it is nothing to do with the EU, and just like our NHS staff shortages, our schools underfunding etc etc it is entirely the fault of our own government.
-Matt |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter.
I still think you’re making interesting points.
How do you think the smaller market we have access too, and potentially increased tariffs, and the lag while these things are negotiated will effect the potential for uk manufacturing to expand?
How will we have a less market access?
There may be tariffs initially but the movement in the pound has more than compensated for that at the moment.
We can still sell into any market, we have to meet the regulatory standards of that market which are going to be the same next Monday as they are now.
We will be a third country and will compete on those terms.
Initially it may cause disruption and the current fafing about is causing people to hold back just to see what happens but from change comes opportunity."
& going back to my earlier question, is this your opinion, or have you increased your staffing to support the upswell in orders? |
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"if its europol you are talking about britain is one of the biggest intelligence contributors to it.If the EU want to cut britain out it will put their citizens in jeopardy too.So common sense tells me that wont happen and just another barnier scare story to get us to stay.I must commend you remainers for having a one dimensional view instead of seeing that co operation benefits all and that leaving the eu doesn't mean we cant be friends. "
Bravo! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter.
I still think you’re making interesting points.
How do you think the smaller market we have access too, and potentially increased tariffs, and the lag while these things are negotiated will effect the potential for uk manufacturing to expand?
How will we have a less market access?
There may be tariffs initially but the movement in the pound has more than compensated for that at the moment.
We can still sell into any market, we have to meet the regulatory standards of that market which are going to be the same next Monday as they are now.
We will be a third country and will compete on those terms.
Initially it may cause disruption and the current fafing about is causing people to hold back just to see what happens but from change comes opportunity."
We, as in the UK, has access to trade freely within the EU. But that may no longer be the case. I don't know your industry, but I'm assuming tariffs will make your output more expensive to EU countries, meaning you will need to lower your prices to compensate and stay competitive?
Also I don't know what regulations apply to your industry. But from something I do know about, uk data centres that currently hold certain types of sensitive data, in the event of no deal Brexit, will no longer legally be allowed to hold EU data on UK soil and vice versa. I'm guessing there are some standards or EU regs that effect your industry that will impact you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter.
I still think you’re making interesting points.
How do you think the smaller market we have access too, and potentially increased tariffs, and the lag while these things are negotiated will effect the potential for uk manufacturing to expand?
How will we have a less market access?
There may be tariffs initially but the movement in the pound has more than compensated for that at the moment.
We can still sell into any market, we have to meet the regulatory standards of that market which are going to be the same next Monday as they are now.
We will be a third country and will compete on those terms.
Initially it may cause disruption and the current fafing about is causing people to hold back just to see what happens but from change comes opportunity."
I admire your positive outlook but I worry that your optimism about being able to expand your market may be a bit hopeful especially if we do crash out with no deal which looks increasingly likely. Our government is still borrowing heavily and thereby loading the national debt even more than ever so the idea that they might provide investment for manufacturing is fairly unlikely as they will find it difficult enough to replace the european scientific research funding that ishoimg to be lost but hey ho it will all work out one day wont it?  |
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"Not an opinion I’m talking of actions of buyers now.
An answer to the fear of friction at the border is to buy from component manufacturers here, it’s already happening."
Which begs the question, if it's already happening now why didn't you (or those companies) do it anyhow while we were in the EU? There was nothing stopping UK companies buying from UK suppliers while we were/are in the EU.
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"Genuine question, I have struggled over the past 3 years trying to understand the upside. Could someone help me?
I posted this on another thread on hard brexiteers, confusion and 2nd referendums (I voted remain btw).
The answer to the question - no one knows as we haven't entered the trade deal part of the negotiation. We are only at the the withdrawal stage which can't be agreed on.
"The deal an adoption of all EU rules, It isn't WTO rules the ERG/Brexiteers want. It is neither the customs union and single market we enjoy as an EU member that Labour are proposing.
This is why it is getting voted out - it isn't hard enough - it isn't soft enough.
Until 2020 if agreed, we have a transition/implementation period where all EU rules will apply. In this period the negotiation of which rules we want to apply begins. After this date the EU will be fined every year (I believe), if the border issue with N.I is not resolved but talks can continue indefinitely if not resolved. After this date, is when we exit but the transition is to allow businesses to know what is included/excluded in the final trade agreement.
(I think I am reasonably correct here)".
Why would the EU be fined for the NI border problem, when the problem has been caused by the actions of the UK? It's kind of like if you had an anti-social neighbour, and the council prosecuted you for not sorting out his mess!
Genuinely interested to know what the legal basis is."
I think this may be based on the fact that if the EU and UK are not in some sort of customs union and the border between Ireland and the UK is not enforced in accordance with WTO regulations this could be considered as the EU giving the UK an unfair advantage over other 3rd countries in selling goods in to Ireland. The UK could also be possibly fined the other way if it gives Ireland an unfair advantage selling in to the UK.
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"The op asked for a factual benefit, I’m giving you that.
Buyers are making changes to how they source supplies, not just in my sector.
There was a chap on R4 a few weeks ago talking about his textile company, they used to have the fabric printed in the EU.
They have now opened a plant to print onto the raw fabric here.
The raw material is only 15-20% of the manufacturering cost , then you add value through the processing.
No wonder most people don’t bother to answer on these threads because you only want answers that fit your view."
To be fair I think you're answers are good and definitely amongst the best I've seen from a Leaver. However you can't expect it to go unchallenged.
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"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You cannot use the argument that Brexit will damage manufacturing then say our manufacturing is shit to start with anyway.
Just for balance sake
And why not?
"
LOL
Because if it was shit already how much worse could it possibly get.
However it's not actually shit at the moment and we are, depending on how you measure it, either the 5th, 6th or 7th largest manufacturing nation in the world.
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"You keep stating your opinion as fact, how do you know most companies don’t have modern machines?
To compete you have to invest or you become uncompetitive and most companies that I know do.
A More positive contribution from the government would help and a realignment of our economy is long overdue.
There is no reason why we can’t expand our manufacturing, as I said Germany doesn’t have magical powers just a mind set from government down that they can be a net exporter.
I still think you’re making interesting points.
How do you think the smaller market we have access too, and potentially increased tariffs, and the lag while these things are negotiated will effect the potential for uk manufacturing to expand?
How will we have a less market access?
There may be tariffs initially but the movement in the pound has more than compensated for that at the moment.
We can still sell into any market, we have to meet the regulatory standards of that market which are going to be the same next Monday as they are now.
We will be a third country and will compete on those terms.
Initially it may cause disruption and the current fafing about is causing people to hold back just to see what happens but from change comes opportunity."
Change brings increased opportunity for some and decreased opportunity for others. The question should always be is the loss of opportunity for some worth the gain in opportunity to others.
So far, from what you've said you're going to do, you see the opportunities for your business and I'm not in a position to say that's not real. However, when you talk about the general, as you do in this post, you seem to be saying that the changes won't make any difference to trading into the EU but that's not what other companies are saying such as Jaguar. I'm also not convinced that the argument of the low GBP will compensate for any tariffs is true for two reasons. Firstly, the reason why the GBP is low is because of a lack of confidence in the UK's future by foreign investors. If BREXIT goes well that confidence will return and GBP will rise again and that advantage will be lost. In reality the low GBP advantage only exists if BREXIT is actually the disaster many currently believe it will be. Secondly; the real problem with customs controls is not the actual tariffs, many of which are in the low single number percent. The real problem is the customs declarations which increases bureaucracy, red tape and subsequently cost. These customs declarations are required even on items tariffed at 0%.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What reality are you pointing out?
I’m giving you facts, your just’ yea but...
The benifit to the whole country from a change in sourcing of all products more locally will be increased employment, less traffic, less pollution a reduction in carbon output and a reduction in our trading deficit through reduced imports.
It does require hard work and a can do attitude, some direction from government and faith in ourselves or we could just start a petition and moan about inot getting our own way.
The world has moved on and Britain is not what it once was unfortunately - and we cannot turn back time. In the manufacturing industry the infrastructure is outdated compared to countries in Asia and the US. For many companies it’s not even possible to source their materials or parts from within the UK. What you’re saying goes against the general consensus and is painting a rosier picture for all based on your company’s relatively unusual position.
You cannot use the argument that Brexit will damage manufacturing then say our manufacturing is shit to start with anyway.
Just for balance sake
And why not?
LOL
Because if it was shit already how much worse could it possibly get.
However it's not actually shit at the moment and we are, depending on how you measure it, either the 5th, 6th or 7th largest manufacturing nation in the world.
"
Considerably - since the late 90s we’ve suffered a 50% reduction in total world manufacturing. However I didn’t originally state shit myself, that was an interpretation of what I was saying. My point was actually that there are many UK companies who are simply not using the most up to date machinery, whereas their competitors are - and that the person i was addressing was somewhat of a unique case who was trying to apply their admirable results across the board. |
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