FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > If a second referendum is undemocratic then......
If a second referendum is undemocratic then......
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"A second general election should be outlawed. After all, if the people have spoken, then the people have spoken. Why does the result of the last general election need to be questioned? ---- runs for shelter......." Obvious really that general elections are every 5 years because of the fixed term Parliament act. As for the referendum everyone knew it was a once in a generation (or once in a lifetime) vote, as the last one before 2016 was over 40 years ago in the 1970's. | |||
" As for the referendum everyone knew it was a once in a generation (or once in a lifetime) vote, as the last one before 2016 was over 40 years ago in the 1970's. " How long is a lifetime when it comes to referenda? It is defined in law in only one place. The Belfast Agreement. A referendum on Irish re-unifification cannot take place until 7 years have elapsed since the previous one. A lifetime lasts 7 years when it comes to referenda. | |||
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"Nothing undemocratic about a referendum, everyone gets a say even when it's about the same thing but 4yeats later. " What when the 1st one hasn't been implemented ? seems to me thats someone trying to get the vote they want. | |||
"A referendum is the only form of national vote that exists in our system - one where everyone's vote is counted in the final result. Yet it seems the labour party are now not happy with the result so wants another one." I don't think that is a fair reading. They are unhappy with the exit plan of Mrs May. That plan cannot pass muster in the House of Commons. So they want the people to decide if that is what they voted for. | |||
"Nothing undemocratic about a referendum, everyone gets a say even when it's about the same thing but 4yeats later. What when the 1st one hasn't been implemented ? seems to me thats someone trying to get the vote they want. " What if it cannot be implemented because everyone has a different idea what it entails and no consent in sight because nobody bothered to outline the T&C before the referendum? | |||
"A referendum is the only form of national vote that exists in our system - one where everyone's vote is counted in the final result. Yet it seems the labour party are now not happy with the result so wants another one. I don't think that is a fair reading. They are unhappy with the exit plan of Mrs May. That plan cannot pass muster in the House of Commons. So they want the people to decide if that is what they voted for. " You really believe that? its people who never wanted to leave which is a great deal of mp,s( because the eu trough is alot bigger to try and get their snouts in) that have made sure it cant pass muster in the commons.You must be able to see you are being played and taken for a fool we may vote but it doesn't matter a jot because they run the game and will get what they want. | |||
"A referendum is the only form of national vote that exists in our system - one where everyone's vote is counted in the final result. Yet it seems the labour party are now not happy with the result so wants another one. I don't think that is a fair reading. They are unhappy with the exit plan of Mrs May. That plan cannot pass muster in the House of Commons. So they want the people to decide if that is what they voted for. You really believe that? its people who never wanted to leave which is a great deal of mp,s( because the eu trough is alot bigger to try and get their snouts in) that have made sure it cant pass muster in the commons.You must be able to see you are being played and taken for a fool we may vote but it doesn't matter a jot because they run the game and will get what they want." The people voted to leave the EU but there are several versions of leave. Remain may now be a better option if the leave promises cannot be kept. You do not think that the British people should choose which of the actual, rather than imaginary options that are available? If there is another referendum and the people vote to remain will they be wrong? Please explain why they should not have that choice. Saying that the previous one has not been implemented is not addressing that as it has become clear that there is no acceptable solution to leaving which keeps the leave promises made at the referendum. | |||
"A referendum is the only form of national vote that exists in our system - one where everyone's vote is counted in the final result. Yet it seems the labour party are now not happy with the result so wants another one. I don't think that is a fair reading. They are unhappy with the exit plan of Mrs May. That plan cannot pass muster in the House of Commons. So they want the people to decide if that is what they voted for. You really believe that? its people who never wanted to leave which is a great deal of mp,s( because the eu trough is alot bigger to try and get their snouts in) that have made sure it cant pass muster in the commons.You must be able to see you are being played and taken for a fool we may vote but it doesn't matter a jot because they run the game and will get what they want." I would say that most MPs want to remain because the know how ruinous leaving will be. The only MPs who want to leave are those wishing to avoid paying tax, those who wish to get rich from currency trading, and other selfish business reasons. If you look at the general level of understanding on what the EU is, leavers generally have so many misconceptions. Even now, when Brexit has dominated the news for so long. I know you can’t take this forum as a fair sample, but just look at what some leavers still believe about the EU and the “benefits” of leaving. Posts come up regularly which are misleading, fact-free and are utter rhubarb. | |||
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"A second general election should be outlawed. After all, if the people have spoken, then the people have spoken. Why does the result of the last general election need to be questioned? ---- runs for shelter....... Obvious really that general elections are every 5 years because of the fixed term Parliament act. As for the referendum everyone knew it was a once in a generation (or once in a lifetime) vote, as the last one before 2016 was over 40 years ago in the 1970's. " So everything on the government leaflet and said in the remain campaign is true? The EU is: Improving our lives Protecting jobs A stronger economy Providing security Then what the leave campaign said was lies, whichever of the two contradictory versions you were listening to. So which form of Brexit did you vote for: Norway, Canada+, Switzerland, no deal, Cake-and-eat-it or something else? What did everyone else vote for? Do you know? How long have we had the Fixed term Parliament act? Before then the government arbitrarily called General elections based on their popularity. They still can with the agreement of Parliament. Why should a referendum be any different. If Parliament agrees then we all get to choose between the transition agreement that our elected government has negotiated and deciding it's not good enough. If we vote leave we spend the next decade still trying to negotiate a final deal. If we remain life goes on as normal. | |||
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"Nothing undemocratic about a referendum, everyone gets a say even when it's about the same thing but 4yeats later. What when the 1st one hasn't been implemented ? seems to me thats someone trying to get the vote they want. " but then if you wanted that arguement the no one voted for the tories to be propped up by the DUP.... that certainly wasnt on my voting slip! so should we get a 2nd general election because i don't remember i don't get the arguement that one vote is democratic and another vote isn't.... its either all right, or all wrong... so which is it? | |||
"Nothing undemocratic about a referendum, everyone gets a say even when it's about the same thing but 4yeats later. What when the 1st one hasn't been implemented ? seems to me thats someone trying to get the vote they want. but then if you wanted that arguement the no one voted for the tories to be propped up by the DUP.... that certainly wasnt on my voting slip! so should we get a 2nd general election because i don't remember i don't get the arguement that one vote is democratic and another vote isn't.... its either all right, or all wrong... so which is it?" Funny I don't remember you complaining about that sort of scenario between 2010 and 2015 when the tories were being propped up by the Lib dems. That wasn't on anyone's voting slip in 2010 and no one complained when the tories formed a coalition with the Lib dems, no one called for another general election then and one wasn't held. Fabio's double standards exposed again. | |||
" You really believe that? its people who never wanted to leave which is a great deal of mp,s( because the eu trough is alot bigger to try and get their snouts in) that have made sure it cant pass muster in the commons.You must be able to see you are being played and taken for a fool we may vote but it doesn't matter a jot because they run the game and will get what they want." The people currently thwarting the exit of the UK from the EU are the Conservative MPs who refuse to do what their leader wants them to do. I'm not being played by anyone. I didn't want to leave. it is economic lunacy. | |||
"Nothing undemocratic about a referendum, everyone gets a say even when it's about the same thing but 4yeats later. What when the 1st one hasn't been implemented ? seems to me thats someone trying to get the vote they want. but then if you wanted that arguement the no one voted for the tories to be propped up by the DUP.... that certainly wasnt on my voting slip! so should we get a 2nd general election because i don't remember i don't get the arguement that one vote is democratic and another vote isn't.... its either all right, or all wrong... so which is it? Funny I don't remember you complaining about that sort of scenario between 2010 and 2015 when the tories were being propped up by the Lib dems. That wasn't on anyone's voting slip in 2010 and no one complained when the tories formed a coalition with the Lib dems, no one called for another general election then and one wasn't held. Fabio's double standards exposed again. " No one is complaining except you. The informal DUP support in exchange for £1bn is as legitimate as the formal coalition agreement. Did you not understand that? | |||
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"you cant compare a referendum to voting for a political party.Referendums are not the norm you know that as well as any one else so not really a valid argument." The remoaners on here will clutch at any straw going. Surely you've realised that by now.  | |||
"you cant compare a referendum to voting for a political party.Referendums are not the norm you know that as well as any one else so not really a valid argument." We will have many more referendums over the next few years. The 2nd inevitable brexit vote ,the second Scottish independence referendum vote and finally the Irish reunification vote.. That's 3 !!  | |||
"you cant compare a referendum to voting for a political party.Referendums are not the norm you know that as well as any one else so not really a valid argument. We will have many more referendums over the next few years. The 2nd inevitable brexit vote ,the second Scottish independence referendum vote and finally the Irish reunification vote.. That's 3 !! ". And a referendum on wether or not MPs should have a pay rise ,,,,, speaking in favour of a pay rise I give you Mr. Christopher Grayling | |||
"you cant compare a referendum to voting for a political party.Referendums are not the norm you know that as well as any one else so not really a valid argument. The remoaners on here will clutch at any straw going. Surely you've realised that by now. "So what point are either of you making? Referenda are therefore a special case so continually claiming that you wouldn't re-run a general election because you don't like the result is a non-point. You're arguing against yourselves now. Good job  | |||
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"It was unprecedented to hold a referendum that introduces major constitutional change without a super majority. Usually it would be over 2/3 of the electoral turnout. For the EU referendum though the threshold was a mere 40% of the turnout. And in the end it didn’t even make that. Hence why it was deemed advisory only. This whole thing is very dodgy and has been since way before the vote. The question should never have been asked in my opinion. It is far beyond the understanding of the vast majority of the general public - which means the majority is going to likely follow the corporate mainstream media. So in the end we have the interests of certain corporations being expressed not that of the people. " Hahahahaha!
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. I can honestly tell you as a leave voter the campaigns in 2016 had very little influence on how i voted. I'd decided 20 years ago i wanted out of the EU. | |||
"It was unprecedented to hold a referendum that introduces major constitutional change without a super majority. Usually it would be over 2/3 of the electoral turnout. For the EU referendum though the threshold was a mere 40% of the turnout. And in the end it didn’t even make that. Hence why it was deemed advisory only. This whole thing is very dodgy and has been since way before the vote. The question should never have been asked in my opinion. It is far beyond the understanding of the vast majority of the general public - which means the majority is going to likely follow the corporate mainstream media. So in the end we have the interests of certain corporations being expressed not that of the people. Hahahahaha!
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. I can honestly tell you as a leave voter the campaigns in 2016 had very little influence on how i voted. I'd decided 20 years ago i wanted out of the EU. "First part of what i said is fact. The second part is my opinion but you yourself are a prime example of why I hold that opinion. | |||
"A second general election should be outlawed. After all, if the people have spoken, then the people have spoken. Why does the result of the last general election need to be questioned? ---- runs for shelter......." So very true | |||
"A referendum is the only form of national vote that exists in our system - one where everyone's vote is counted in the final result. Yet it seems the labour party are now not happy with the result so wants another one." The modern generation have been ruined by short sighted perenting giving there kids what they wanted,weather it be gadgets,trainers etc.The result is they think that whatever they want they should get and bugger the rest.This bad parenting of the last 30 years is a very big threat to society and maybe needs to be looked at very closely. probably the younger members here will disagree with me as they are part of this.It worries more than global warming etc as there desires are the reason for these problems to an extent. It is also causing the end of democracy maybe.The vote was taken,there was a general election and that is final. | |||
"Personally I think referenda are the worst form of democracy. In order for something to be truly democratic there has to be some form of accountability and, as we're seeing with the last referendum, there is no legitimate way to hold those who argued either for or against BREXIT in the referendum accountable. The best we can do is hold those tasked with implementing the result (our elected MPs) accountable. This being the case, it is only right and proper that they (our elected MPs who we can hold to account at the next General Election) should make the final decision of not only what sort of BREXIT we should have but also whether we have any BREXIT at all. In making that decision I see nothing undemocratic in them seeking the advice or expertise of anyone they see fit including, if they so wish, the general public through another advisory referendum. However whatever our elected MPs finally decide, they, and only they, can be held accountable and they, and only they will be held accountable at the next General Election, unlike those who insist that the only democratic thing to do is blindly follow the advice from the last referendum but can't be held accountable in anyway for the consequences of might happen. It easy to argue and vote for something when someone else is going to held to account. It's much more difficult to do the same when you're actually responsible for the outcome and can be held to account. " I don't think there's anything undemocratic or worst about the instrument of a referendum. It's all a question how it's being put in front of the people and therein lies the responsibility and accountability. The Tory government under Cameron put a referendum to the people in a daily mirror manner survey, not considering the implications. While it could have simply ask for a mandate from the people to negotiate a deal with the EU and once the deal is on the table let the people decide again. But also the parliament triggered A50 pretty swiftly and made the mess even bigger. So there you have plenty of people that you can hold accoubtable for the Brexit nonsense, the politicians that ran and run UK in the last 5years, the very same that people voted for to represent them but also they believed them to see fit to run a country including political instruments such as a referendum. | |||
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"Parliament does not need a 2nd Referendum. If they disagree with the result of the original referendum they can just IGNORE it ." your dummy is in the post | |||
"Parliament does not need a 2nd Referendum. If they disagree with the result of the original referendum they can just IGNORE it .your dummy is in the post " To date the previous three UK-wide referendums in 1975, 2011 and 2016 were all pre-legislative. Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign. From Googling Parliamentary Referendum . Its on the wiki page. I dont need a pacifier. The leavers who dont get what they voted for may have a need for one. | |||
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"A referendum is the only form of national vote that exists in our system - one where everyone's vote is counted in the final result. Yet it seems the labour party are now not happy with the result so wants another one." You do know referenda in the UK are advisory? | |||
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"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source "Did this poll go round and ask three quarters of labour voters in the northern heartlands? No, I thought not,we all know how inaccurate these polls are! | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
Did this poll go round and ask three quarters of labour voters in the northern heartlands?
No, I thought not,we all know how inaccurate these polls are!"Do we? I thought polls could usually be pretty accurate? | |||
"The big difference here is that the result of a General election is implemented immediately. The reason why so many are slamming a 2nd referendum as undemocratic is because the result of the last one has not yet been implemented. Whereas with General elections, we have the chance to change our minds on the MP's we voted for, we have the experience of what they are like as MP's. We have no idea what life outside the EU is going to be like, because it hasn't actually happened yet. It's just remoaners ramping up project fear to try and get the decision reversed. It's actually been argued that a 2nd referendum would very likely produce a similar result to the last as the majority haven't changed their position. You might have a few brexiteers who would now vote to remain, but there are likely similar numbers of remainers who would now vote to leave" Just to pick up on one part - the bit about having no idea what life outside the EU will be like. That’s actually not true. If you can look out your window and see that it’s raining, you don’t actually need to go outside to know you’re going to get wet. | |||
"The big difference here is that the result of a General election is implemented immediately. The reason why so many are slamming a 2nd referendum as undemocratic is because the result of the last one has not yet been implemented. Whereas with General elections, we have the chance to change our minds on the MP's we voted for, we have the experience of what they are like as MP's. We have no idea what life outside the EU is going to be like, because it hasn't actually happened yet. It's just remoaners ramping up project fear to try and get the decision reversed. It's actually been argued that a 2nd referendum would very likely produce a similar result to the last as the majority haven't changed their position. You might have a few brexiteers who would now vote to remain, but there are likely similar numbers of remainers who would now vote to leave"
The BBC's polling guru Professor John Curtis latest analysis of the situation is that public opinion on Brexit has hardly shifted since 2016, so another vote would more than likely deliver the same result as before. | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
"The latest OnePoll survey for The Sun on Sunday published in today's paper shows 46% of people think the way MP's have handled Brexit is a complete and utter disgrace and 29% think most MP's don't believe in Brexit and are deliberately trying to frustrate it. Only 11% think MP's are doing their best is difficult circumstances. The poll also showed 26% think Theresa May should deliver Brexit on time on March 29th (even if it means leaving without a deal), 17% think a short delay of 2 or 3 months would be acceptable (but only if it means Theresa May could improve her deal) and 13% think a delay is a ploy to prolong the process in order to get a 2nd referendum or keep us in the EU. | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
The latest OnePoll survey for The Sun on Sunday published in today's paper shows 46% of people think the way MP's have handled Brexit is a complete and utter disgrace and 29% think most MP's don't believe in Brexit and are deliberately trying to frustrate it. Only 11% think MP's are doing their best is difficult circumstances.
The poll also showed 26% think Theresa May should deliver Brexit on time on March 29th (even if it means leaving without a deal), 17% think a short delay of 2 or 3 months would be acceptable (but only if it means Theresa May could improve her deal) and 13% think a delay is a ploy to prolong the process in order to get a 2nd referendum or keep us in the EU. "We done advertising the newspaper. The poll tells us nothing. Excellent use of space | |||
"The big difference here is that the result of a General election is implemented immediately. The reason why so many are slamming a 2nd referendum as undemocratic is because the result of the last one has not yet been implemented. Whereas with General elections, we have the chance to change our minds on the MP's we voted for, we have the experience of what they are like as MP's. We have no idea what life outside the EU is going to be like, because it hasn't actually happened yet. It's just remoaners ramping up project fear to try and get the decision reversed. It's actually been argued that a 2nd referendum would very likely produce a similar result to the last as the majority haven't changed their position. You might have a few brexiteers who would now vote to remain, but there are likely similar numbers of remainers who would now vote to leave
The BBC's polling guru Professor John Curtis latest analysis of the situation is that public opinion on Brexit has hardly shifted since 2016, so another vote would more than likely deliver the same result as before. ".. but you shouldn't believe the polls because the last one was wro g wasn't it?  | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
The latest OnePoll survey for The Sun on Sunday published in today's paper shows 46% of people think the way MP's have handled Brexit is a complete and utter disgrace and 29% think most MP's don't believe in Brexit and are deliberately trying to frustrate it. Only 11% think MP's are doing their best is difficult circumstances.
The poll also showed 26% think Theresa May should deliver Brexit on time on March 29th (even if it means leaving without a deal), 17% think a short delay of 2 or 3 months would be acceptable (but only if it means Theresa May could improve her deal) and 13% think a delay is a ploy to prolong the process in order to get a 2nd referendum or keep us in the EU. "So the Daily Mail is publishing fake news? | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
The latest OnePoll survey for The Sun on Sunday published in today's paper shows 46% of people think the way MP's have handled Brexit is a complete and utter disgrace and 29% think most MP's don't believe in Brexit and are deliberately trying to frustrate it. Only 11% think MP's are doing their best is difficult circumstances.
The poll also showed 26% think Theresa May should deliver Brexit on time on March 29th (even if it means leaving without a deal), 17% think a short delay of 2 or 3 months would be acceptable (but only if it means Theresa May could improve her deal) and 13% think a delay is a ploy to prolong the process in order to get a 2nd referendum or keep us in the EU.
We done advertising the newspaper.
The poll tells us nothing.
Excellent use of space "It tells us a lot more than your poll, which was a waste of space. | |||
"The big difference here is that the result of a General election is implemented immediately. The reason why so many are slamming a 2nd referendum as undemocratic is because the result of the last one has not yet been implemented. Whereas with General elections, we have the chance to change our minds on the MP's we voted for, we have the experience of what they are like as MP's. We have no idea what life outside the EU is going to be like, because it hasn't actually happened yet. It's just remoaners ramping up project fear to try and get the decision reversed. It's actually been argued that a 2nd referendum would very likely produce a similar result to the last as the majority haven't changed their position. You might have a few brexiteers who would now vote to remain, but there are likely similar numbers of remainers who would now vote to leave
The BBC's polling guru Professor John Curtis latest analysis of the situation is that public opinion on Brexit has hardly shifted since 2016, so another vote would more than likely deliver the same result as before.
.. but you shouldn't believe the polls because the last one was wro g wasn't it? "So you don't believe John Curtis now then. | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
The latest OnePoll survey for The Sun on Sunday published in today's paper shows 46% of people think the way MP's have handled Brexit is a complete and utter disgrace and 29% think most MP's don't believe in Brexit and are deliberately trying to frustrate it. Only 11% think MP's are doing their best is difficult circumstances.
The poll also showed 26% think Theresa May should deliver Brexit on time on March 29th (even if it means leaving without a deal), 17% think a short delay of 2 or 3 months would be acceptable (but only if it means Theresa May could improve her deal) and 13% think a delay is a ploy to prolong the process in order to get a 2nd referendum or keep us in the EU.
We done advertising the newspaper.
The poll tells us nothing.
Excellent use of space
It tells us a lot more than your poll, which was a waste of space. "If you think so. It wasn't my poll. It was the Daily Mail, but as you now think that they are fake news you won't be quoting them in the future | |||
"The big difference here is that the result of a General election is implemented immediately. The reason why so many are slamming a 2nd referendum as undemocratic is because the result of the last one has not yet been implemented. Whereas with General elections, we have the chance to change our minds on the MP's we voted for, we have the experience of what they are like as MP's. We have no idea what life outside the EU is going to be like, because it hasn't actually happened yet. It's just remoaners ramping up project fear to try and get the decision reversed. It's actually been argued that a 2nd referendum would very likely produce a similar result to the last as the majority haven't changed their position. You might have a few brexiteers who would now vote to remain, but there are likely similar numbers of remainers who would now vote to leave
The BBC's polling guru Professor John Curtis latest analysis of the situation is that public opinion on Brexit has hardly shifted since 2016, so another vote would more than likely deliver the same result as before.
.. but you shouldn't believe the polls because the last one was wro g wasn't it?
So you don't believe John Curtis now then. "Now? Who said that I did or did not?
He's one source of many.
You have often stated that they are wrong so why use them as any form of evidence.
It's oxymoronic  | |||
"Northern uproar: New poll shows three quarters of Labour voters in northern heartlands WANT a second Brexit referendum despite claims it would will cause major damage to the party http://flip.it/_ko_Dc Fake news? Check the source
The latest OnePoll survey for The Sun on Sunday published in today's paper shows 46% of people think the way MP's have handled Brexit is a complete and utter disgrace and 29% think most MP's don't believe in Brexit and are deliberately trying to frustrate it. Only 11% think MP's are doing their best is difficult circumstances.
The poll also showed 26% think Theresa May should deliver Brexit on time on March 29th (even if it means leaving without a deal), 17% think a short delay of 2 or 3 months would be acceptable (but only if it means Theresa May could improve her deal) and 13% think a delay is a ploy to prolong the process in order to get a 2nd referendum or keep us in the EU. "So only 26% think we should leave regardless of circumstances on 29/3....Nige's march for unemployment will be popular then | |||
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"Public needs and understanding of situations changes, so there cannot be a case that calls a referendum undemocratic. Where illegal activities were in place for the first Brexit one, it's greater reason to ensure that a check point reviews contemporary opinion, now that there is substantially more knowledge available and also as it's clearer that leaving poses significant peril. " That exact same principle can also be applied to the former Labour and Tory MP's who have left their parties to form the independent group. The circumstances have now changed for their constituents but they are refusing to call by elections to give their constituents a new vote based on the new circumstances. Double standards much? | |||
"Public needs and understanding of situations changes, so there cannot be a case that calls a referendum undemocratic. Where illegal activities were in place for the first Brexit one, it's greater reason to ensure that a check point reviews contemporary opinion, now that there is substantially more knowledge available and also as it's clearer that leaving poses significant peril. That exact same principle can also be applied to the former Labour and Tory MP's who have left their parties to form the independent group. The circumstances have now changed for their constituents but they are refusing to call by elections to give their constituents a new vote based on the new circumstances. Double standards much? " ...then Churchill should have done the same. However, that's not how the situation stands. Lobby for the law to be changed. | |||
"Public needs and understanding of situations changes, so there cannot be a case that calls a referendum undemocratic. Where illegal activities were in place for the first Brexit one, it's greater reason to ensure that a check point reviews contemporary opinion, now that there is substantially more knowledge available and also as it's clearer that leaving poses significant peril. That exact same principle can also be applied to the former Labour and Tory MP's who have left their parties to form the independent group. The circumstances have now changed for their constituents but they are refusing to call by elections to give their constituents a new vote based on the new circumstances. Double standards much? ...then Churchill should have done the same. However, that's not how the situation stands. Lobby for the law to be changed." The law shouldn't need changing if we had politicians with honour and integrity. Politicians with honour and integrity like Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless stood down and called by elections when they left the Conservative party and joined ukip. They got permission through a democratic mandate from their constituents to carry on in the job as MP for their local areas. | |||
"Public needs and understanding of situations changes, so there cannot be a case that calls a referendum undemocratic. Where illegal activities were in place for the first Brexit one, it's greater reason to ensure that a check point reviews contemporary opinion, now that there is substantially more knowledge available and also as it's clearer that leaving poses significant peril. That exact same principle can also be applied to the former Labour and Tory MP's who have left their parties to form the independent group. The circumstances have now changed for their constituents but they are refusing to call by elections to give their constituents a new vote based on the new circumstances. Double standards much? ...then Churchill should have done the same. However, that's not how the situation stands. Lobby for the law to be changed. The law shouldn't need changing if we had politicians with honour and integrity. Politicians with honour and integrity like Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless stood down and called by elections when they left the Conservative party and joined ukip. They got permission through a democratic mandate from their constituents to carry on in the job as MP for their local areas. " Should all the UKIP MEP quitters have stood down too? | |||
"Public needs and understanding of situations changes, so there cannot be a case that calls a referendum undemocratic. Where illegal activities were in place for the first Brexit one, it's greater reason to ensure that a check point reviews contemporary opinion, now that there is substantially more knowledge available and also as it's clearer that leaving poses significant peril. That exact same principle can also be applied to the former Labour and Tory MP's who have left their parties to form the independent group. The circumstances have now changed for their constituents but they are refusing to call by elections to give their constituents a new vote based on the new circumstances. Double standards much? ...then Churchill should have done the same. However, that's not how the situation stands. Lobby for the law to be changed. The law shouldn't need changing if we had politicians with honour and integrity. Politicians with honour and integrity like Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless stood down and called by elections when they left the Conservative party and joined ukip. They got permission through a democratic mandate from their constituents to carry on in the job as MP for their local areas. " Winston Churchill was dishonourable then? | |||
"Public needs and understanding of situations changes, so there cannot be a case that calls a referendum undemocratic. Where illegal activities were in place for the first Brexit one, it's greater reason to ensure that a check point reviews contemporary opinion, now that there is substantially more knowledge available and also as it's clearer that leaving poses significant peril. That exact same principle can also be applied to the former Labour and Tory MP's who have left their parties to form the independent group. The circumstances have now changed for their constituents but they are refusing to call by elections to give their constituents a new vote based on the new circumstances. Double standards much? ...then Churchill should have done the same. However, that's not how the situation stands. Lobby for the law to be changed. The law shouldn't need changing if we had politicians with honour and integrity. Politicians with honour and integrity like Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless stood down and called by elections when they left the Conservative party and joined ukip. They got permission through a democratic mandate from their constituents to carry on in the job as MP for their local areas. Should all the UKIP MEP quitters have stood down too?" especially as you vote for the party not the person. | |||
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"interesting that people like the erg who never accepted the result of the 1st referendum 45 years ago and brought down virtually every tory pm till they got their way with a second one now bleat about another referendum being undemocratic seems democracy is only what suits " I know. The irony of the whole “remoaners” thing isn’t wasted on me. The other side have been moaning professionally for 40 odd years. And we’re to believe what, that they’d have stopped moaning if the result had gone the other way? | |||
"interesting that people like the erg who never accepted the result of the 1st referendum 45 years ago and brought down virtually every tory pm till they got their way with a second one now bleat about another referendum being undemocratic seems democracy is only what suits I know. The irony of the whole “remoaners” thing isn’t wasted on me. The other side have been moaning professionally for 40 odd years. And we’re to believe what, that they’d have stopped moaning if the result had gone the other way?" They won and there still moaning about the flavour of brexit. The truth is the hardcore brexiters wont be happy until they have a purge of all those they consider undesirable or not quite British enough and because of this they will never be happy.. | |||
"interesting that people like the erg who never accepted the result of the 1st referendum 45 years ago and brought down virtually every tory pm till they got their way with a second one now bleat about another referendum being undemocratic seems democracy is only what suits I know. The irony of the whole “remoaners” thing isn’t wasted on me. The other side have been moaning professionally for 40 odd years. And we’re to believe what, that they’d have stopped moaning if the result had gone the other way? They won and there still moaning about the flavour of brexit. The truth is the hardcore brexiters wont be happy until they have a purge of all those they consider undesirable or not quite British enough and because of this they will never be happy.." The ERG types and their predecessors have finished off every Tory leader since Thatcher....theyre hypocritical beyond measure | |||
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"Until we have proper regulation of our news media then referenda will always be extremely dangerous - for society at least. " So you believe in cencorship!!!Very dangerous | |||
"The greatest threat to Brexit is not a referendum and neither is it Europhile MPs. It is the puritanical elements of the DUP and Conservative Party whose pursuit of ideological purity over pragmatism risks snatching defeat from the jaws of victory." but also true of all parties | |||
"Until we have proper regulation of our news media then referenda will always be extremely dangerous - for society at least. So you believe in cencorship!!!Very dangerous" I assumed they meant accountability | |||
