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Sien Fien in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn.
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"He's never going to be leader, he's a rabble rouser and trouble maker. Same as that loon McDonell." He is a leader already he was elected to be the leader of the Labour Party. | |||
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Well played jezza .  | |||
"Apparently between his marriage breakups he'd Dianne Abbot as his girlfriend, he gave her a good job to keep her quiet!. Jaw dropping isn't it?. " You mean like all the backhanders that the tories regularly give each other and the weapons they allow into the hands of one of the worlds terrorist states known as Saudi Arabia. | |||
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"I do not remember Saudi Arabia planting a bomb in a Brighton hotel trying to blow up the government!. I do remember the 300 get out of jail free letters the Labour government led by Tony Blair sent to IRA on the run terrorists saying that they were no longer wanted!. Was that a type of back hander?. " Saudi Arabia have either planted or dropped bombs on many buildings in a number of countries killing many innocent people, yet we still give them munitions in the name of profit. As for Blair, well the less said about that dickhead the better, he led new labour not labour. | |||
"The political wing of the UDA was in London yesterday talking to Mrs May bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.She's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with her ex-best friend Boris Johnson. This is the leader of the government. What is your mainland opinion?. " Fixed it for you. | |||
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"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " I'm all for Irish unity and judging by the Sinn Fein leaders statement after the meeting that's what was discussed. Speaking after a meeting with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in Westminster, Ms McDonald insisted that a no-deal Brexit would trigger a border poll referendum on Irish unity. Ms McDonald said: “We are very disheartened at the manner in which Mrs May, it seems to us, is playing down the clock. “And therefore playing a game of chicken with Irish interests. “We are here to say again that Ireland won’t be the collateral damage in a Tory Brexit.” | |||
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"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. I'm all for Irish unity and judging by the Sinn Fein leaders statement after the meeting that's what was discussed. Speaking after a meeting with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in Westminster, Ms McDonald insisted that a no-deal Brexit would trigger a border poll referendum on Irish unity. Ms McDonald said: “We are very disheartened at the manner in which Mrs May, it seems to us, is playing down the clock. “And therefore playing a game of chicken with Irish interests. “We are here to say again that Ireland won’t be the collateral damage in a Tory Brexit.”" Why Irish Union? | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " Your wrong they are not an active group they dissarmed under the Good Friday / Belfast agreement in 1998 In which Thereas May's goverment are trying to turn their back on You talk of Jeremy Corbyn meeting with Sinn Fein but nothing of May going i to goverment with the DUP The DUP who will not give into equal rights for Gay people or allow a vote on abortion all these rights that people on main land uk have but they denny to the people of Northern Ireland And just so you know the people of nortern Ireland voted to remain Giving out about the leader in waiting look at the leader in power  | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " any opinion on may and her association with the dup to prop up the Tories? That wasn't anything other than a cynical use of our money to meet the Tory needs.expect you think that's ok THOUGH? | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " If you are going to misrepresent what happen yesterday you may as well go big It was the political leader on Sinn Fein in the Republic of Ireland yesterday that Corbyn met... and they were discussing brexit amongst other things This was also the same Sinn Fein leader that Teresa may met last week when she was talking to Irish political figures last week But hey.... if you going to make a point badly... well done old chap | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. any opinion on may and her association with the dup to prop up the Tories? That wasn't anything other than a cynical use of our money to meet the Tory needs.expect you think that's ok THOUGH?" Or how the Greens and Libs stood candidates down so Labour MP's would have a better chance of gaining a seat in the election? Real political choices made there. | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. If you are going to misrepresent what happen yesterday you may as well go big It was the political leader on Sinn Fein in the Republic of Ireland yesterday that Corbyn met... and they were discussing brexit amongst other things This was also the same Sinn Fein leader that Teresa may met last week when she was talking to Irish political figures last week But hey.... if you going to make a point badly... well done old chap " | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. If you are going to misrepresent what happen yesterday you may as well go big It was the political leader on Sinn Fein in the Republic of Ireland yesterday that Corbyn met... and they were discussing brexit amongst other things This was also the same Sinn Fein leader that Teresa may met last week when she was talking to Irish political figures last week But hey.... if you going to make a point badly... well done old chap " | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " Yay go Jezza & Sinn Fein . Get this terrorist scum from Westminster out of the 32 counties once & for all For to long they have caused genocide & mass murder in the name of Colonialism . An lá saoirse osclaíonn | |||
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"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " So why shouldnt Labour talk to democratically elected politicians (which is what Sinn Fein are).Try dropping the blind prejudice | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. " When the question is put to the electorate of NI, as it inevitably will, we will all see who thinks what. In the meantime, the odious DUP continue to represent a minority of NI voters | |||
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"I do not remember Saudi Arabia planting a bomb in a Brighton hotel trying to blow up the government!. I do remember the 300 get out of jail free letters the Labour government led by Tony Blair sent to IRA on the run terrorists saying that they were no longer wanted!. Was that a type of back hander?. Saudi Arabia have either planted or dropped bombs on many buildings in a number of countries killing many innocent people, yet we still give them munitions in the name of profit. As for Blair, well the less said about that dickhead the better, he led new labour not labour." tony blair wasnt real labour hahaha that old chestnut lol i didnt see any labour m.ps leave the party when they gained power.the war criminal blair was labour.labour should really own up that he is one of there own | |||
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"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. Your wrong they are not an active group they dissarmed under the Good Friday / Belfast agreement in 1998 In which Thereas May's goverment are trying to turn their back on You talk of Jeremy Corbyn meeting with Sinn Fein but nothing of May going i to goverment with the DUP The DUP who will not give into equal rights for Gay people or allow a vote on abortion all these rights that people on main land uk have but they denny to the people of Northern Ireland And just so you know the people of nortern Ireland voted to remain Giving out about the leader in waiting look at the leader in power ". So your for democracy when it votes remain but against democracy when it votes in the dup who enact policies you think are against human rights?. Strange logic | |||
"Terrorists he's a disgrace and so is may as sold country out. Pity paddy pants down died he was a man of his word" Nah he didnt eat his hat. | |||
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"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " I do love these threads. It's quite amusing to see how ill informed some people are
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"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. " Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . " .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London." I predict a riot....... | |||
"I do not remember Saudi Arabia planting a bomb in a Brighton hotel trying to blow up the government!. I do remember the 300 get out of jail free letters the Labour government led by Tony Blair sent to IRA on the run terrorists saying that they were no longer wanted!. Was that a type of back hander?. Saudi Arabia have either planted or dropped bombs on many buildings in a number of countries killing many innocent people, yet we still give them munitions in the name of profit. As for Blair, well the less said about that dickhead the better, he led new labour not labour. tony blair wasnt real labour hahaha that old chestnut lol i didnt see any labour m.ps leave the party when they gained power.the war criminal blair was labour.labour should really own up that he is one of there own" If you think Blair was real Labour then you are deluded, the man is a tory more than labour and always will be. If he was real labour he would not be a war monger but a war monger he is. | |||
"I do not remember Saudi Arabia planting a bomb in a Brighton hotel trying to blow up the government!. I do remember the 300 get out of jail free letters the Labour government led by Tony Blair sent to IRA on the run terrorists saying that they were no longer wanted!. Was that a type of back hander?. Saudi Arabia have either planted or dropped bombs on many buildings in a number of countries killing many innocent people, yet we still give them munitions in the name of profit. As for Blair, well the less said about that dickhead the better, he led new labour not labour. tony blair wasnt real labour hahaha that old chestnut lol i didnt see any labour m.ps leave the party when they gained power.the war criminal blair was labour.labour should really own up that he is one of there own If you think Blair was real Labour then you are deluded, the man is a tory more than labour and always will be. If he was real labour he would not be a war monger but a war monger he is." Aren't these all mute points? In reality all parties move position on most issues. Blair was Labour and Corbyn wasn't real Labour in the 90's. Then things change and Blair isn't but Corbyn is. Warmonger accusations are rightfully or wrongly a personal slur but do not paint someone as Labour or not Labour. Corbyn has either actively or by omission encouraged armed struggle. And don't get me started on the Tories... | |||
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"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London." Obviously not me, as im from Belfast & am here as a direct result of the Troubles . Im not sure why a 5 knuckle shuffler from Faversham would want to get involved . | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . " . Haha I can't wait for the provos to start blowing up the Irish president, shooting Irish school kids and blowing up some Dublin discos. We'll see how the Irish treat them then!. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . . Haha I can't wait for the provos to start blowing up the Irish president, shooting Irish school kids and blowing up some Dublin discos. We'll see how the Irish treat them then!." You can’t wait? Are you sick? | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . . Haha I can't wait for the provos to start blowing up the Irish president, shooting Irish school kids and blowing up some Dublin discos. We'll see how the Irish treat them then!." What makes you think "the provos" would do any such thing ? Are you politically dyslexic? | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. Yay go Jezza & Sinn Fein . Get this terrorist scum from Westminster out of the 32 counties once & for all For to long they have caused genocide & mass murder in the name of Colonialism . An lá saoirse osclaíonn " I think, like BREXIT itself, a lot more than some imagined freedom will be opened the day that vote is cast. Irish unity is premature and unlikely to lead to long term peace. Maybe one day but not yet and not now. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . " Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" " You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ?" Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. " They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. | |||
"You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. "
We are in danger of throwing the baby out with the Brexit bathwater.
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"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London. Obviously not me, as im from Belfast & am here as a direct result of the Troubles . Im not sure why a 5 knuckle shuffler from Faversham would want to get involved . " So by choosing to live in London you are not committed to Ireland then and prefer the Uk? So do I. We do have something in common? | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. " Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. | |||
"The political wing of the UDA was in London yesterday talking to Mrs May bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.She's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with her ex-best friend Boris Johnson. This is the leader of the government. What is your mainland opinion?. Fixed it for you. " The DUP is not the political wing of the UDA. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles." A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. | |||
 | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London. Obviously not me, as im from Belfast & am here as a direct result of the Troubles . Im not sure why a 5 knuckle shuffler from Faversham would want to get involved . So by choosing to live in London you are not committed to Ireland then and prefer the Uk? So do I. We do have something in common? " I dont choose to live here . Im unable to move at the moment , Soon enough though. | |||
"The political wing of the UDA was in London yesterday talking to Mrs May bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.She's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with her ex-best friend Boris Johnson. This is the leader of the government. What is your mainland opinion?. Fixed it for you. The DUP is not the political wing of the UDA. " https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjemdr71cDgAhWm1uAKHT8SBkkQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2017%2Fjun%2F27%2Ftroubled-past-the-paramilitary-connection-that-still-haunts-the-dup&psig=AOvVaw2IbJje-XG-Gh28Z42fyWGX&ust=1550420871615535 | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London. Obviously not me, as im from Belfast & am here as a direct result of the Troubles . Im not sure why a 5 knuckle shuffler from Faversham would want to get involved . So by choosing to live in London you are not committed to Ireland then and prefer the Uk? So do I. We do have something in common? I dont choose to live here . Im unable to move at the moment , Soon enough though." Wormwood Scrubbs or something less secure? Everybody can choose where not to live unless locked up. | |||
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"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London. Obviously not me, as im from Belfast & am here as a direct result of the Troubles . Im not sure why a 5 knuckle shuffler from Faversham would want to get involved . So by choosing to live in London you are not committed to Ireland then and prefer the Uk? So do I. We do have something in common? I dont choose to live here . Im unable to move at the moment , Soon enough though. Wormwood Scrubbs or something less secure? Everybody can choose where not to live unless locked up." Nope wrong on both counts. | |||
"The political wing of the UDA was in London yesterday talking to Mrs May bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.She's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with her ex-best friend Boris Johnson. This is the leader of the government. What is your mainland opinion?. Fixed it for you. The DUP is not the political wing of the UDA. " I think I'd be inclined to say that that is some what of a naive position. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. " I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . .....and they said that the Good Friday Agreement would help to end sectarianism in Northern Ireland. But then again, it was never intended to stop keyboard warriors from London. Obviously not me, as im from Belfast & am here as a direct result of the Troubles . Im not sure why a 5 knuckle shuffler from Faversham would want to get involved . So by choosing to live in London you are not committed to Ireland then and prefer the Uk? So do I. We do have something in common? I dont choose to live here . Im unable to move at the moment , Soon enough though. Wormwood Scrubbs or something less secure? Everybody can choose where not to live unless locked up. Nope wrong on both counts. " Eigean naisiunaigh....as they say back home. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. " You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " They'd get more sense talking to a turnip than talking to Jeremy...!!! AND the turnip has a better personality | |||
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"If Ireland don't like us cab we have the money back when we bailed you out. .Also Europe didn't bail you out This is suppose be a singers site NOT POLITICAL IF YOU DON'T LIKE ENGLAND you don't have to visit or speak to us .. SO ALL MAKE LOVE NOT WAR !!!!!! ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE" Jon you ARE IN THE POLITICS FORUM ! I suggest you exit through the gift shop if you don't like what your reading.. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. " No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. | |||
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"Nobody, when discussing Northern Ireland ever seems to mention the Ulster Scots. People who were entitled to land given to them in a land swap between Scotland and Ireland. Seems there Scottish people who took the land on offer in Ireland, not so many Irish taking the land on offer in Scotland. Well that is how one Ulsteman explained it to me, though it was some time ago, and my memory ain’t what it was." I am aware of the Ulster Scots. I'm also aware that their language is in competition with Irish Gaelic as a second language for Northern Ireland. Beyond that I'm also aware that in Roman times the tribe known as the Scots didn't live in what is now known as Scotland but lived in Ireland while most of the ancestors of those who now live in Ireland were Celts living in what is now England or Wales. All English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish history is difficult, muddled and complex. Depending on where in history you choose to draw your line, almost any claim to nationality, sovereignty, or oppression can be made. | |||
"Nobody, when discussing Northern Ireland ever seems to mention the Ulster Scots. People who were entitled to land given to them in a land swap between Scotland and Ireland. Seems there Scottish people who took the land on offer in Ireland, not so many Irish taking the land on offer in Scotland. Well that is how one Ulsteman explained it to me, though it was some time ago, and my memory ain’t what it was." Entitled to the land?
Ethnic cleansing is what you're talking about.  | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. " I have no concern as to whether we agree on it or not. You've just missed the point that loyalist violence was conducted with the aid of the British military. Without that aid they do not pose the same threat. In a situation where the majority vote for an end to partition then they will not have British military aid. | |||
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"Nobody, when discussing Northern Ireland ever seems to mention the Ulster Scots. People who were entitled to land given to them in a land swap between Scotland and Ireland. Seems there Scottish people who took the land on offer in Ireland, not so many Irish taking the land on offer in Scotland. Well that is how one Ulsteman explained it to me, though it was some time ago, and my memory ain’t what it was. Entitled to the land?
Ethnic cleansing is what you're talking about. "The ethnic cleansing is happening alright, which is the impending outnumbering of loyalist Ulstermen by the faster breeding Nationalists. There will be a bloodbath, then and only then there will be a United Ireland. | |||
"Nobody, when discussing Northern Ireland ever seems to mention the Ulster Scots. People who were entitled to land given to them in a land swap between Scotland and Ireland. Seems there Scottish people who took the land on offer in Ireland, not so many Irish taking the land on offer in Scotland. Well that is how one Ulsteman explained it to me, though it was some time ago, and my memory ain’t what it was. I am aware of the Ulster Scots. I'm also aware that their language is in competition with Irish Gaelic as a second language for Northern Ireland. Beyond that I'm also aware that in Roman times the tribe known as the Scots didn't live in what is now known as Scotland but lived in Ireland while most of the ancestors of those who now live in Ireland were Celts living in what is now England or Wales. All English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish history is difficult, muddled and complex. Depending on where in history you choose to draw your line, almost any claim to nationality, sovereignty, or oppression can be made. " Ulster Scots has been accepted as a language as a fudge. It's a dialect, simply a mispronounciation of English words. Something like 15,000 people claim to be able to speak it. Gaeilge has over 100,000 who claim to be able to speak it. They don't compete against each other as a language act was agreed which gave protection to both but it was reneged upon by the DUP. | |||
"Nobody, when discussing Northern Ireland ever seems to mention the Ulster Scots. People who were entitled to land given to them in a land swap between Scotland and Ireland. Seems there Scottish people who took the land on offer in Ireland, not so many Irish taking the land on offer in Scotland. Well that is how one Ulsteman explained it to me, though it was some time ago, and my memory ain’t what it was. Entitled to the land?
Ethnic cleansing is what you're talking about.
The ethnic cleansing is happening alright, which is the impending outnumbering of loyalist Ulstermen by the faster breeding Nationalists. There will be a bloodbath, then and only then there will be a United Ireland."That's nonsense. I'm referring to how the Scottish settlers got their land in Ireland. It was land that was taken from the native Irish who were driven into the mountains or put to the sword and gifted to the settlers in return for their loyalty. | |||
S.T.D
F*cking Numpties , i wonder if that comes from Robinsons wifes bit on the side . | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. I have no concern as to whether we agree on it or not. You've just missed the point that loyalist violence was conducted with the aid of the British military. Without that aid they do not pose the same threat. In a situation where the majority vote for an end to partition then they will not have British military aid. " Being able to successfully subdue those you see as against you, as you seem to suggesting the Nationalist community will do to the Unionists community, in a united Ireland, is not the way forward for a peaceful future. As for your comments that the British military aided in loyalist violence, I put that in the same category as claims that the Irish Government under Charles Haughey's Fianna Fail backed and supported the IRA Proves. That's to say, there may be some truth in both, in that others acted in the belief it was in their name or on their behalf, but it was not policy for either. Ultimately you have to decide what you want: Irish Unity, peace or just simple revenge for some historically justified or otherwise grievance. I chose peace before either of the others and I believe that forcing the Unionists community in to a united Ireland now or in the near future is unlikely to achieve that. | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. I have no concern as to whether we agree on it or not. You've just missed the point that loyalist violence was conducted with the aid of the British military. Without that aid they do not pose the same threat. In a situation where the majority vote for an end to partition then they will not have British military aid. Being able to successfully subdue those you see as against you, as you seem to suggesting the Nationalist community will do to the Unionists community, in a united Ireland, is not the way forward for a peaceful future. As for your comments that the British military aided in loyalist violence, I put that in the same category as claims that the Irish Government under Charles Haughey's Fianna Fail backed and supported the IRA Proves. That's to say, there may be some truth in both, in that others acted in the belief it was in their name or on their behalf, but it was not policy for either. Ultimately you have to decide what you want: Irish Unity, peace or just simple revenge for some historically justified or otherwise grievance. I chose peace before either of the others and I believe that forcing the Unionists community in to a united Ireland now or in the near future is unlikely to achieve that. " You're going to have to show me where I mentioned subduing anyone?
You clearly have never read any histories of the recent conflict. You really should.
You're the only person I've seen talking about forcing unionists into a UI. I was taking, and mentioned it more than once, about a situation where the majority vote to end partition. Are you suggesting that a majority vote is "forcing" unionists? | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. " I'm all for NI being part of the UK. I used to visit quite a bit and know there is division but that's the case in Scotland too. Should Scotland be separated too or just become separate to the UK? Or do people think there should be British unity? | |||
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"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. I have no concern as to whether we agree on it or not. You've just missed the point that loyalist violence was conducted with the aid of the British military. Without that aid they do not pose the same threat. In a situation where the majority vote for an end to partition then they will not have British military aid. Being able to successfully subdue those you see as against you, as you seem to suggesting the Nationalist community will do to the Unionists community, in a united Ireland, is not the way forward for a peaceful future. As for your comments that the British military aided in loyalist violence, I put that in the same category as claims that the Irish Government under Charles Haughey's Fianna Fail backed and supported the IRA Proves. That's to say, there may be some truth in both, in that others acted in the belief it was in their name or on their behalf, but it was not policy for either. Ultimately you have to decide what you want: Irish Unity, peace or just simple revenge for some historically justified or otherwise grievance. I chose peace before either of the others and I believe that forcing the Unionists community in to a united Ireland now or in the near future is unlikely to achieve that. You're going to have to show me where I mentioned subduing anyone?
You clearly have never read any histories of the recent conflict. You really should.
You're the only person I've seen talking about forcing unionists into a UI. I was taking, and mentioned it more than once, about a situation where the majority vote to end partition. Are you suggesting that a majority vote is "forcing" unionists? "A simple majority would be forcing the Unionists. What would you call it? | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. I have no concern as to whether we agree on it or not. You've just missed the point that loyalist violence was conducted with the aid of the British military. Without that aid they do not pose the same threat. In a situation where the majority vote for an end to partition then they will not have British military aid. Being able to successfully subdue those you see as against you, as you seem to suggesting the Nationalist community will do to the Unionists community, in a united Ireland, is not the way forward for a peaceful future. As for your comments that the British military aided in loyalist violence, I put that in the same category as claims that the Irish Government under Charles Haughey's Fianna Fail backed and supported the IRA Proves. That's to say, there may be some truth in both, in that others acted in the belief it was in their name or on their behalf, but it was not policy for either. Ultimately you have to decide what you want: Irish Unity, peace or just simple revenge for some historically justified or otherwise grievance. I chose peace before either of the others and I believe that forcing the Unionists community in to a united Ireland now or in the near future is unlikely to achieve that. You're going to have to show me where I mentioned subduing anyone?
You clearly have never read any histories of the recent conflict. You really should.
You're the only person I've seen talking about forcing unionists into a UI. I was taking, and mentioned it more than once, about a situation where the majority vote to end partition. Are you suggesting that a majority vote is "forcing" unionists?
A simple majority would be forcing the Unionists. What would you call it?
"I would call it democracy.
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I'm hoping you disagree with me so that I get to point out that you appear to have accepted it in relation to brexit. | |||
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"Not impressed at receiving a private message from someone who I can't even reply to following my post on this thread! He even suggested that I supported a particular side of the argument, although I didn't. Maybe we should look at the reunification of the British Isles ??" Reunify? We don't use that term in Ireland, in fact I'm not sure if it's used officially in the UK either. We were only ever held as part of the UK by force so good luck with that one. | |||
"Not impressed at receiving a private message from someone who I can't even reply to following my post on this thread! He even suggested that I supported a particular side of the argument, although I didn't. Maybe we should look at the reunification of the British Isles ??" Can they be Reunited with Brittany in France as well then ? The little island the big island & the main land ? | |||
"You are all for Irish unity, ask the protestants that question in the North of Ireland. You have a mainland opinion that I respect, but choose the company that it is expressed in. Why ask the Protestants ? Catholics were never asked , They were just brutalised for a couple of hundred years . Ireland wilk treat protestants who choose to say, fairly & respect there religous & Human rights as members of the EU. Something the UK government never did before 1997 . Because if you don't ask the Protestants (or more correctly the Unionists) then you’re just reversing the injustice of the past and that won't bring lasting peace to Ireland. You can't seriously expect the Unionists community to believe their rights and culture will adequately defended by the Republic while at the same time say "why ask the Protestants?" You dont need to ask them . You take them & treat them with the respect you would any other Human Being . Or is that totally alien to anybody inside the borders of the united kingdom ? Does that include respecting their wish to not only be Irish but British too? You simply will not have a peaceful solution in Ireland if unity is achieved by a simple majority vote in a plebiscite of the people of Northern Ireland. The only way to real peace in Ireland is by making the choice of being British and Irish, or British or Irish irrelevant. That was the beauty of the Good Friday Agreement. I know and accept that it's the fault of the UK through BREXIT that all the good work of the last 20 years is being put in doubt but a rush to Irish unity now is not the solution. They can't be British . They were born in the North of Ireland , not on the island of Britain which is England, Scotland & Wales. The act of union is the Union between Great Britain & Ireland. Thats why the red white & blue flag is called the Union Flag. Not the British flag as it is incorrectly called on a regular basis. Ive long wondered why protestants were so in awe of a flag that represents 2 Catholic saints who were canonised by 2 Catholic Popes And the 3rd his widely ( but incorrectly ) regarded as the man who bought Catholicism to Ireland. Maybe that was a little Catholic Joke by King James 1 , who oversaw the act of union between England & Scotland & that flag was just the 2 crosses & was in fact a " British Flag ". To paraphrase . They can be Irish & Northern Irish but not British. Dont blame me blame Geography & History. Talking geographically, as opposed to politically, Great Britain is the larger of the two main islands that form The British Isles. Ireland is the other island that together with Great Britain, is part of the British Isles. I don't draw any political significance from this fact and I'm definitely not saying that because Ireland is part of the geographical entity it should be part of the the political entity the currently governs all other parts of the British Isles except most of Ireland. What I am saying is that, just because Belfast is geography closer to Dublin than London, does not mean that Northern Ireland should be governed from Dublin or that they cannot choose to be politically British (not English, Welsh or Scottish) and Irish any more than I would say that just because Ireland is part of the geographical entity of the British Isles it should be governed from London. Issues of nationality and sovereignty are difficult and complex. The simplistic solution of uniting Ireland against the will of what is still probably the majority of the people in Northern Ireland and, even when at some point in the future it's no longer the majority, will probably still be a very large minority, is not going to help maintain peace on the island of Ireland nor, by extension, the rest of the British Isles. A couple of things.. The term "British Isles" is theoretically a geographical term but its very much a political one in reality, harking back to the days of empire, and is very much a British term. We in Ireland do not use it and do not consider our island to be part of the "British Isles". The official term used is "Britain and Ireland" or "these islands" As for peace in Ireland, the cause of violence in Ireland has always been the British involvement. The six county state in the north of Ireland was engineered so that the protestant/unionist population would have total control over it, with constituencies gerrymandered so that even where nationalists were in a majority, they were still grossly underrepresented. This was done deliberately by the "government of Ireland act,1920" turning the minority unionist population in Ireland into a majority in their own little state, free to treat catholics as second class citizens, which they did with the backing of successive British governments until catholics eventually started demanding better treatment in the sixties. These peaceful demands, voting, housing and employment rights, were met with extreme violence from the organs of the state and a resurgence of loyalist paramilitarism encouraged by the organs of the state, necessitating the creation of defence committees in many nationalist areas. The British government then sent in troops, not to restore order but to restore the unionist domination and to help suppress nationalist resistance to state violence. When the IRA split in two over their own inaction in 1970 many of these local defence committees morphed into what we now know as the Provisional IRA and we know what that led to. We then end up with a situation where the British military were using Kitson's "counter gangs" ideas to distance themselves from much of their dirtiest deeds by arming, training and providing intelligence to their loyalist proxies to kill whoever they felt was a problem to them. All through the conflict in the north the murky military intelligence groups were pulling strings, stoking things up to suit their own needs. In the future when Ireland has reunified there will presumably be no British involvement so whatever loyalist paramilitary groups still exist will not have the military support they previously received from your army and will not be particularly potent. Make no mistake about it, the end of partition is in sight. A glance at census figures over the last 20 years will show this clearly. The time is fast approaching where unionists need to wake up and decide if they want to hold on until the last minute when they'll end up with not much influence in an all Ireland environment or accept the change that's coming and embrace it while they're still a substantial political block. I really don't need a lesson on Civil Rights in Northern Ireland since partition, nor a lesson on how and why Northern Ireland was created in the first place. I've said previously on this site that I believe and back Irish unification and I definitely do not support the politics the DUP and a large part of the Unionist community in Northern Ireland. My worry is simply that I believe that, if we want a peaceful solution in Ireland, now is not the time to push for reunification. You appear to be ignorant of the fact that political violence in Ireland has always been caused by your government's involvement so obviously you do need some education. No, seriously, I do not. Whilst there is always the possibility of new information coming forward that might change my point of view I'm reasonably well versed in Irish history going back to the 12th century Norman Invasion and before, through the 18th century whiteboys in Munster and Wolf Tone's Society of United Irishmen, 19th century Gladstone's and Parnell's Home Rule, 20th century Churchill's Black & Tans and MacNiel's Irish Volunteers. It's a mistake to assume that, just because my heritage is mostly English, I don't know any Irish history and an even bigger mistake to assume that everyone who does know about Irish history agrees with an Irish Nationalist interpretation of it. I have no concern as to whether we agree on it or not. You've just missed the point that loyalist violence was conducted with the aid of the British military. Without that aid they do not pose the same threat. In a situation where the majority vote for an end to partition then they will not have British military aid. Being able to successfully subdue those you see as against you, as you seem to suggesting the Nationalist community will do to the Unionists community, in a united Ireland, is not the way forward for a peaceful future. As for your comments that the British military aided in loyalist violence, I put that in the same category as claims that the Irish Government under Charles Haughey's Fianna Fail backed and supported the IRA Proves. That's to say, there may be some truth in both, in that others acted in the belief it was in their name or on their behalf, but it was not policy for either. Ultimately you have to decide what you want: Irish Unity, peace or just simple revenge for some historically justified or otherwise grievance. I chose peace before either of the others and I believe that forcing the Unionists community in to a united Ireland now or in the near future is unlikely to achieve that. You're going to have to show me where I mentioned subduing anyone?
You clearly have never read any histories of the recent conflict. You really should.
You're the only person I've seen talking about forcing unionists into a UI. I was taking, and mentioned it more than once, about a situation where the majority vote to end partition. Are you suggesting that a majority vote is "forcing" unionists?
A simple majority would be forcing the Unionists. What would you call it?
I would call it democracy.
.
I'm hoping you disagree with me so that I get to point out that you appear to have accepted it in relation to brexit. "You can call it what you like but, in the sort of democracy I'd choose to live in simple majorities would not be the bases on which important matters such as people's nationality and a nation's (or even a province's) sovereignty would be decided. BREXIT should be a warning to all in Ireland of thinking that getting simple majority in a one off vote on matters like nationality and sovereignty doesn't resolve the issues, in fact quite the opposite. Britain is even more divided now than it ever was before the BREXIT referendum, and I can guarantee you that feelings here in the UK, both before the BREXIT referendum and even now, towards the EU are as nothing compared to the much stronger feelings to either being part of the UK or not on both sides in Northern Ireland. And God alone knows where you've got the idea that I've accepted the result of the BREXIT referendum but it's definitely not from anything I've posted on this site. | |||
"Not impressed at receiving a private message from someone who I can't even reply to following my post on this thread! He even suggested that I supported a particular side of the argument, although I didn't. Maybe we should look at the reunification of the British Isles ?? Reunify? We don't use that term in Ireland, in fact I'm not sure if it's used officially in the UK either. We were only ever held as part of the UK by force so good luck with that one. "Whilst a pretty good economic argument could be made for a united Ireland being once again part of the UK it would never happen. To be frank, the high handed attitude of the English nationalist towards Scotland in this whole BREXIT mess is just one example of why Ireland left in the first place. If BREXIT goes as badly as I fear I doubt there will be any UK left in 20 years. Far more likely than a united Ireland joining the UK would a a Celtic Alliance between Ireland and an independent Scotland. | |||
"Jeremy just can't help himself from siding with anyone he thinks is oppressed or an underdog, even if they are oppressed for a good reason i.e. they are terrorists or not very nice people. " Oppressed for a good reason?? Not very nice people?? Please explain, I'd love to hear your reasons. | |||
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"I now firmly believe that the time has arrived when the Union has run its course. Scotland has been dragging us down politically for decades, and in Northern Ireland there is a shift toward uniting with the South. If we are to make a success of our own independence, then we have to cut them loose. With of course no deal. "presumably they can walk away from all debts then | |||
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" A simple majority would be forcing the Unionists. What would you call it? I would call it democracy.
.
I'm hoping you disagree with me so that I get to point out that you appear to have accepted it in relation to brexit.
You can call it what you like but, in the sort of democracy I'd choose to live in simple majorities would not be the bases on which important matters such as people's nationality and a nation's (or even a province's) sovereignty would be decided. BREXIT should be a warning to all in Ireland of thinking that getting simple majority in a one off vote on matters like nationality and sovereignty doesn't resolve the issues, in fact quite the opposite. Britain is even more divided now than it ever was before the BREXIT referendum, and I can guarantee you that feelings here in the UK, both before the BREXIT referendum and even now, towards the EU are as nothing compared to the much stronger feelings to either being part of the UK or not on both sides in Northern Ireland.
And God alone knows where you've got the idea that I've accepted the result of the BREXIT referendum but it's definitely not from anything I've posted on this site."On your last point, by "you" I mean Britain in general. I have yet to hear any substantial number of people object to the principle of a simple majority in relation to the brexit vote. As for the potential similarities between brexit debacle and Irish reunification, the key difference is that the potential 49% who voted against reunification will only make up 20% of the population in a reunified Ireland. Of course that could be problematic but I've lived over fifty years listening to how much British people love democracy so I'm happy enough with it. Also, you don't need to tell me how Irish people might feel. | |||
"Apparently between his marriage breakups he'd Dianne Abbot as his girlfriend, he gave her a good job to keep her quiet!. Jaw dropping isn't it?. " that's not actually true she was always earmarked for the shadow cabinet.....i note you have blocked me since my first post.?? | |||
"I now firmly believe that the time has arrived when the Union has run its course. Scotland has been dragging us down politically for decades, and in Northern Ireland there is a shift toward uniting with the South. If we are to make a success of our own independence, then we have to cut them loose. With of course no deal. "Could you expand on dragging “Us down politically “ , Unless I’m illiterate and numerically disadvantaged , 57MPs have never been able to have any real influence in Parliament, even when there was 55 SNP members , The UK has NEVER been united as there are far too many people who crave a return to the crusade and Empiric mentality where Engurrrlaaand had a foothold on the throats of under developed nations, Both England and the US have a false idea on their previous exploits in foreign lands and value and importance in the present one . As for the original point regarding Corbyn, he’s at liberty to discuss anything with any political figure and it won’t affect his chances of being PM as the worst Tory Government in living memory is only a point or two behind in the polls ?? Purely a result of Labour and Corbyn ineptitude. I for one look forward to solving the Cumbrian Backstop with the method they’re solving the Irish one . | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " Your ignorance is quite scary, I suggest you do more research into the IRA and why and when they where formed. You clearly have no clue on your country's own history. | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " Donald Trump attended a Sinn Feinn fund-raiser in New York - £131 per head to attend - and shook hands with Gerry Adams, four months before the IRA killed two people in the Canary Wharf bombing. Should he be barred from Britain as a terrorist sympathiser? | |||
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"I do not remember Saudi Arabia planting a bomb in a Brighton hotel trying to blow up the government!. I do remember the 300 get out of jail free letters the Labour government led by Tony Blair sent to IRA on the run terrorists saying that they were no longer wanted!. Was that a type of back hander?. Saudi Arabia have either planted or dropped bombs on many buildings in a number of countries killing many innocent people, yet we still give them munitions in the name of profit. As for Blair, well the less said about that dickhead the better, he led new labour not labour." hahaha new labour lol it was labour you know corbyn abbott mc donnel they were all in the party with him or are they not real labour either lol bet most labour voters still voted for blair ride the coat tails when ruling but disown him wen out of power lol he is your war crimminal own it | |||
"Apparently between his marriage breakups he'd Dianne Abbot as his girlfriend, he gave her a good job to keep her quiet!. Jaw dropping isn't it?. You mean like all the backhanders that the tories regularly give each other and the weapons they allow into the hands of one of the worlds terrorist states known as Saudi Arabia. " No, not like that at all. We've had the Good Friday peace agreement for over 20 years and both the Provisional IRA and Sinn Fein are fully signed up to it and have, for the most part, stuck to it. I'm no fan of Jeremy and worry even more about John McDonald but this hysterical false outrage about him talking to a legitimate political party from Northern Ireland is getting past the ridiculous now. Do you honestly think that John Major's Conservative Government and Tony Blair's Labour Government managed to get the Good Friday Peace Agreement done without talking to Sinn Fien and the Provisional IRA when they really were a mouth piece for and actually a terrorist organisation respectively FFS. | |||
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"Funny how many loose their marbles over JC talking to Sinn Fein but have no problems with the Tory PM doing a £1.5 BILLION deal with the DUP to keep them in No 10. After all Sinn Fein and the DUP are 2 sides of the same coin. " However not a single penny of the money you refer to went to the DUP. The DUP simply negotiated a package which was to the benefit of every single citizen in Northen Ireland. JC was talking to an organisation of which many members seemed happy for associated organisations to both kill and plan to kill members of the public on a daily basis . Most people would prefer to distance themselves from such individuals | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " A plan to get them to sit in parliament and throw the tories out with promises in return when he is PM.He is such a devious bastard that he would not surprise me.He is the most devious and dishonest politition there is and wants to destroy are democracy from within.Bafles me that people cannot see this | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. A plan to get them to sit in parliament and throw the tories out with promises in return when he is PM.He is such a devious bastard that he would not surprise me.He is the most devious and dishonest politition there is and wants to destroy are democracy from within.Bafles me that people cannot see this" . Does anyone actually think that Sinn Fein MPs would ever sit in Westminster ??? | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. A plan to get them to sit in parliament and throw the tories out with promises in return when he is PM.He is such a devious bastard that he would not surprise me.He is the most devious and dishonest politition there is and wants to destroy are democracy from within.Bafles me that people cannot see this. Does anyone actually think that Sinn Fein MPs would ever sit in Westminster ??? " if bribed yes just like the DUP all the same | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. A plan to get them to sit in parliament and throw the tories out with promises in return when he is PM.He is such a devious bastard that he would not surprise me.He is the most devious and dishonest politition there is and wants to destroy are democracy from within.Bafles me that people cannot see this. Does anyone actually think that Sinn Fein MPs would ever sit in Westminster ??? if bribed yes just like the DUP all the same" . Not exactly the same , The Conservatives may be able to bribe The DUP with cash from the magic money tree (taxpayers ) ,,,,,, but ,,,,, Sinn Fein will never take their democratically won seats in The British Parliament | |||
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"JC was talking to an organisation of which many members seemed happy for associated organisations to both kill and plan to kill members of the public on a daily basis . Most people would prefer to distance themselves from such individuals " Have you missed the bit where the Tory MP's who voiced your claims about JC in the 90's (before the Good Friday Agreement) was in bed with terrorists have had to make very large donations to charities that JC chose and in his name as well as making full retractions in the same form as the original claims or face deformation judgments because when he made those contacts he made them at the request of the Speaker of The House ON BEHALF OF THE THATCHER TORY GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY and everything to do with those contacts is documented! | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. A plan to get them to sit in parliament and throw the tories out with promises in return when he is PM.He is such a devious bastard that he would not surprise me.He is the most devious and dishonest politition there is and wants to destroy are democracy from within.Bafles me that people cannot see this" If you think Sinn Feinn would sit in Westminster, you don't understand the point of Sinn Feinn.... | |||
"Funny how many loose their marbles over JC talking to Sinn Fein but have no problems with the Tory PM doing a £1.5 BILLION deal with the DUP to keep them in No 10. After all Sinn Fein and the DUP are 2 sides of the same coin. " | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. Your ignorance is quite scary, I suggest you do more research into the IRA and why and when they where formed. You clearly have no clue on your country's own history. " | |||
"The political wing of the IRA was in London yesterday talking to Jeremy Corbyn bout brexit. This is an active terrorist group operating in Northern Ireland. This terrorist sympathiser is a traitor!.He's shared platforms with them in Belfast along with his best friend John Mcdonald. This is the leader of the government in waiting. What is your mainland opinion?. " Do you honestly believe that every successive British government hasnt conversed with Sinn Fein since its birth? They might not have been open about it, but they all spoke to them. | |||
