FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Spain wants gibraltar.
Spain wants gibraltar.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? "
That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The UK won’t give it up for one reason - its port is of strategic importance for UK and US hunter-killer submarines playing cat-and-mouse games beneath the waves with their Russian counterparts. |
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"The UK won’t give it up for one reason - its port is of strategic importance for UK and US hunter-killer submarines playing cat-and-mouse games beneath the waves with their Russian counterparts."
That is all true too - notwithstanding what I said earlier. You know I hate referenda!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK won’t give it up for one reason - its port is of strategic importance for UK and US hunter-killer submarines playing cat-and-mouse games beneath the waves with their Russian counterparts."
.
It was a hundred years ago, I'm really not sure it's that important these days. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I agree that it should belong to spain, do you? It is said that this is a bigger problem than northern ireland border."
So you think you should have the right to tell those who live in Gib or anywhere else who should govern them? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree that it should belong to spain, do you? It is said that this is a bigger problem than northern ireland border.
So you think you should have the right to tell those who live in Gib or anywhere else who should govern them? "
Get orff muy laand!!! |
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"I agree that it should belong to spain, do you? It is said that this is a bigger problem than northern ireland border.
So you think you should have the right to tell those who live in Gib or anywhere else who should govern them? "
Well the British & Dutch obviously did when they were at war & decided to split up the spoils after.
No-one seemed to give a flying f&ck about the original inhabitants of Gib then ! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I don’t recall the British being concerned in the slightest about the wishes of the resident population of the Chagos Islands, when they were forcibly evicted as part of the military asset swap between the US and the UK. |
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Not once did tge British Slave traders seem at all concerned about removing the locals from Africa
Or indeed slaughtering tye millions in India
We wont even start on the Situation in Ireland .
But touch Gib or the Falklands
Leave them alone there british
I wonder why they never seemed to think the same of Honk Kong though.
Maybe the Chinese had bigger boys as kevin & perry would say . |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over."
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then. |
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Respect the will of the people in this modern age.
Ceuta and Melia are a pain in the arse for Spain at the moment but they will never give them back.
Gibraltar has been held by the Moors and the English longer than the Spanish.
Leave them alone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Respect the will of the people in this modern age.
Ceuta and Melia are a pain in the arse for Spain at the moment but they will never give them back.
Gibraltar has been held by the Moors and the English longer than the Spanish.
Leave them alone. "
.
I agree, the people of Gibraltar should be the ones having a say in who or what governs them.
Give Northern Ireland and Gibraltar referendums on staying in the United Kingdom.
Once they say yes or no the problems are solved |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Gibraltar is nothing but a tool.If it wasn't of strategic value we wouldn't give a flying fuck.
Brittania must keep her navy strong and rule the waves.Lets see who rules what , when we send our aircraft carrier to the south China seas.Over China's territorial claims of the South China Sea ..British Hypocrisy at its best. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over."
The Falklands too? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
But touch Gib or the Falklands
Leave them alone there british
I wonder why they never seemed to think the same of Honk Kong though.
Maybe the Chinese had bigger boys as kevin & perry would say ."
Because the UK negotiated a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Not once did tge British Slave traders seem at all concerned about removing the locals from Africa
Or indeed slaughtering tye millions in India
We wont even start on the Situation in Ireland .
But touch Gib or the Falklands
Leave them alone there british
I wonder why they never seemed to think the same of Honk Kong though.
Maybe the Chinese had bigger boys as kevin & perry would say ."
The key difference between places like Gibraltar, the Falkland Islands and Northern Ireland, and other places occupied by the British, is the heritage of the population.
Where the residents are primarily colonisers and their descendants, the British pay special attention to their wishes.
Where the majority is indigenous to that territory, they do not.
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I disagree. Country borders and ruling powers have changed countless times over millennia but today ultimately the decision should largely rest with its citizens im.
Spain is just continuing Its policy of being provocatively disruptive and deflect away from Its own problems - including citizens who wish to breakaway from Spain. |
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"Gibraltar is nothing but a tool.If it wasn't of strategic value we wouldn't give a flying fuck.
Brittania must keep her navy strong and rule the waves.Lets see who rules what , when we send our aircraft carrier to the south China seas.Over China's territorial claims of the South China Sea ..British Hypocrisy at its best."
with you bob on this and the falklands aswell |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I agree that it should belong to spain, do you? It is said that this is a bigger problem than northern ireland border.
So you think you should have the right to tell those who live in Gib or anywhere else who should govern them? "
No. but it was spanish along time ago. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then."
Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont. |
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"I agree that it should belong to spain, do you? It is said that this is a bigger problem than northern ireland border.
So you think you should have the right to tell those who live in Gib or anywhere else who should govern them? No. but it was spanish along time ago."
Spain has only existed for 550 years so it’s been somewhere else for far far longer than it’s been Spain. |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then.Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont."
So Spain wants Gibraltar but won't give up Ceuta and Mellila.
Double standards?
Oh! while we are on the subject of historical colonialism.
Britain is forced to apologise for every bit of shit since the Norman conquest, but the silence is deafening when it comes to the Spanish apologising for the genocide of the south and central American natives.
FFS they even claim property rights to the fucking gold that they stole every time someone finds a shipwreck.
I'll take no fucking lectures from the Spanish when it comes to historical colonialism. |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over."
In that case the English should leave England and go back to where they came from if you follow that logic, or do you just pick some random point in time. |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then.Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont.
So Spain wants Gibraltar but won't give up Ceuta and Mellila.
Double standards?
Oh! while we are on the subject of historical colonialism.
Britain is forced to apologise for every bit of shit since the Norman conquest, but the silence is deafening when it comes to the Spanish apologising for the genocide of the south and central American natives.
FFS they even claim property rights to the fucking gold that they stole every time someone finds a shipwreck.
I'll take no fucking lectures from the Spanish when it comes to historical colonialism."
You need to take fucking lectures from the nations that were r.aPed & pilaged by the Empire though !!
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"
Spain has only existed for 550 years so it’s been somewhere else for far far longer than it’s been Spain.
That makes Spain 230-odd years older than the United Kingdom.
"
True, but 500 years less than England. |
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"The Kingdom of England was abolished in 1707.
"
The point I’m making is the fm said that all territories should go back to how they were, Spain has less claim to Gibraltar than other countries. And no one can really claim lands because invariably there was always someone else there before them. I’m guessing but probably 90% of the earths surface has been conquered at some point or other.  |
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"How would the English feel if, say, the Wirral was an enclave of Spain?"
probably not happy, but if it had been Spanish for 300 years and the people wanted to remain in a Spanish enclave then so be it.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I agree that it should belong to spain, do you? It is said that this is a bigger problem than northern ireland border.
So you think you should have the right to tell those who live in Gib or anywhere else who should govern them? No. but it was spanish along time ago."
It was ruled by the moors along with a lot of southern spain.The brits helped spain drive them out.As for the dutch giving gib to the uk,it was the war of ascension the king of spain died with no heir there were 2 cousins in line for the throne one was french so the brits helped the other one as if spain had had a french king they would have been a lot more powerful than britain.We beat the french and gib was ceded to the brits for their help.Hope this helps you but you can buy history books and read them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Spain wants Gibraltar.
What Spain wants and what Spain gets are two different things.
I want a Bugatti Veyron.
What I want and what I get are two different things.  "
Just like Brexit then
Sorry, couldn't pass that one up  |
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As with all territories, it should always be down to the people in that territory to decide.
Unless of course, it is Spanish Sahara. Then the Spanish do not recognise any independence claims. Nor do the countenance any independence moves among the Catalans.
The UK would accept a referendum result if it was adverse to UK rule.
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I disagree. Country borders and ruling powers have changed countless times over millennia but today ultimately the decision should largely rest with its citizens im.
Spain is just continuing Its policy of being provocatively disruptive and deflect away from Its own problems - including citizens who wish to breakaway from Spain."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then.Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont.
So Spain wants Gibraltar but won't give up Ceuta and Mellila.
Double standards?
Oh! while we are on the subject of historical colonialism.
Britain is forced to apologise for every bit of shit since the Norman conquest, but the silence is deafening when it comes to the Spanish apologising for the genocide of the south and central American natives.
FFS they even claim property rights to the fucking gold that they stole every time someone finds a shipwreck.
I'll take no fucking lectures from the Spanish when it comes to historical colonialism.
You need to take fucking lectures from the nations that were r.aPed & pilaged by the Empire though !!
"
.
nah, you can stick your cultural Marxism where the sun don't shine.  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The islands of Orkney and Shetland belonged to Norway.
In 1468, their King was skint, so he pawned them to Scotland for 58,000 florins.
How much might a broke Brexit Britain get for Gibraltar?
|
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"
Spain has only existed for 550 years so it’s been somewhere else for far far longer than it’s been Spain.
That makes Spain 230-odd years older than the United Kingdom.
"
But about 1000 years younger than England, Scotland or Wales. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The islands of Orkney and Shetland belonged to Norway.
In 1468, their King was skint, so he pawned them to Scotland for 58,000 florins.
How much might a broke Brexit Britain get for Gibraltar?
"
The only proviso in the Treaty of Utrecht was that we had to offer it to Spain first should we wish to dispense with Gibraltar. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The islands of Orkney and Shetland belonged to Norway.
In 1468, their King was skint, so he pawned them to Scotland for 58,000 florins.
How much might a broke Brexit Britain get for Gibraltar?
The only proviso in the Treaty of Utrecht was that we had to offer it to Spain first should we wish to dispense with Gibraltar."
Seems reasonable.
How much do you think it is worth?
Our leaders seem willing to sell anything.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm surprised May hasn't already given back Gibraltar as part of her Brexit deal.
I thought the Falklanders were fucked when May went to Buenos Aires for the G20 summit last November |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I'm surprised May hasn't already given back Gibraltar as part of her Brexit deal.
I thought the Falklanders were fucked when May went to Buenos Aires for the G20 summit last November "
Why would you think that? Seems to me although she was a remainder she is determined to stick to the will of the people. |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then.Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont.
So Spain wants Gibraltar but won't give up Ceuta and Mellila.
Double standards?
Oh! while we are on the subject of historical colonialism.
Britain is forced to apologise for every bit of shit since the Norman conquest, but the silence is deafening when it comes to the Spanish apologising for the genocide of the south and central American natives.
FFS they even claim property rights to the fucking gold that they stole every time someone finds a shipwreck.
I'll take no fucking lectures from the Spanish when it comes to historical colonialism.
You need to take fucking lectures from the nations that were r.aPed & pilaged by the Empire though !!
"
I didn't say that Britain has nothing to apologise for.
The point is/was why is it always (and only) Britain that has to apologise for everything, yet no-one else does?
Spain I've already covered, but we never hear about any apologies from France (Mauritania Senegal Mali French Guinea Ivory Coast Burkina Faso Benin and Niger) Belgium (Congo Rwanda) Portugal (Angola and Mozambique) Italy (Ethiopia Somalia & Eritrea) or Holland (Indonesia and don't forget that they started the ball rolling in India) And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation but they sure as hell made up for it in the early/mid 20th century.
So no I won't take any lectures from any of them. |
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"The islands of Orkney and Shetland belonged to Norway.
In 1468, their King was skint, so he pawned them to Scotland for 58,000 florins.
How much might a broke Brexit Britain get for Gibraltar?
The only proviso in the Treaty of Utrecht was that we had to offer it to Spain first should we wish to dispense with Gibraltar.
Seems reasonable.
How much do you think it is worth?
Our leaders seem willing to sell anything.
"
I fully expect it and our fishing grounds to be traded off for a trade deal with the eu . All 26 countries are going to want something. |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then.Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont.
So Spain wants Gibraltar but won't give up Ceuta and Mellila.
Double standards?
Oh! while we are on the subject of historical colonialism.
Britain is forced to apologise for every bit of shit since the Norman conquest, but the silence is deafening when it comes to the Spanish apologising for the genocide of the south and central American natives.
FFS they even claim property rights to the fucking gold that they stole every time someone finds a shipwreck.
I'll take no fucking lectures from the Spanish when it comes to historical colonialism.
You need to take fucking lectures from the nations that were r.aPed & pilaged by the Empire though !!
I didn't say that Britain has nothing to apologise for.
The point is/was why is it always (and only) Britain that has to apologise for everything, yet no-one else does?
Spain I've already covered, but we never hear about any apologies from France (Mauritania Senegal Mali French Guinea Ivory Coast Burkina Faso Benin and Niger) Belgium (Congo Rwanda) Portugal (Angola and Mozambique) Italy (Ethiopia Somalia & Eritrea) or Holland (Indonesia and don't forget that they started the ball rolling in India) And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation but they sure as hell made up for it in the early/mid 20th century.
So no I won't take any lectures from any of them."
Don’t for get that Britain was R and pillaged by the Scandinavians and the Romans’, where’s our apology. |
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"You could argue that all nations should return all their overseas territories to the previous owners or closest states but they don't.
So why should Gibraltar be any different? That is right, the age of colonialism is over and all territories should be handed over.
So you would agree that Spain should give Ceuta and Melilla back to Morocco then.Yes. I see no reason why they shouldnt, do you? I guess as it got good trade they wont.
So Spain wants Gibraltar but won't give up Ceuta and Mellila.
Double standards?
Oh! while we are on the subject of historical colonialism.
Britain is forced to apologise for every bit of shit since the Norman conquest, but the silence is deafening when it comes to the Spanish apologising for the genocide of the south and central American natives.
FFS they even claim property rights to the fucking gold that they stole every time someone finds a shipwreck.
I'll take no fucking lectures from the Spanish when it comes to historical colonialism.
You need to take fucking lectures from the nations that were r.aPed & pilaged by the Empire though !!
I didn't say that Britain has nothing to apologise for.
The point is/was why is it always (and only) Britain that has to apologise for everything, yet no-one else does?
Spain I've already covered, but we never hear about any apologies from France (Mauritania Senegal Mali French Guinea Ivory Coast Burkina Faso Benin and Niger) Belgium (Congo Rwanda) Portugal (Angola and Mozambique) Italy (Ethiopia Somalia & Eritrea) or Holland (Indonesia and don't forget that they started the ball rolling in India) And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation but they sure as hell made up for it in the early/mid 20th century.
So no I won't take any lectures from any of them.
Don’t for get that Britain was R and pillaged by the Scandinavians and the Romans’, where’s our apology. "
Yep. Claudius was a right twat (Apologies to Derek Jacobi LOL) and don't get me on that Ivar the Boneless.
OK the Italians are skint but I think we should get a bit of Compo from Denmark. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Don’t for get that Britain was R and pillaged by the Scandinavians and the Romans’, where’s our apology. "
They also brought a lot of technological advances.
Throughout history, whoever makes the technological leap forward begins to expand outwards.
The Romans, the Vikings, the Portugese, the Spanish, the British, the Americans . . . all founded on a leap forward in military technology.
Yes, all of it preceded by brutality, usually, then followed by the sharing of the technology with others.
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"And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation"
The Germans may have been late to lay their towels on the colonial beaches, but they formed colonies in German East Africa, German West Africa, Namibia and New Guinea.
The Herero tribe was almost obliterated by genocide, skulls were shipped back to Berlin for examination and comparison with Aryans (the Nazis didn't originate that codswallop) and the brown uniforms of Roehm's SA street fighters were army surplus from Germany's African forces. |
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""And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation"
The Germans may have been late to lay their towels on the colonial beaches, but they formed colonies in German East Africa, German West Africa, Namibia and New Guinea.
"
The German's are always first to lay their towels on sun loungers around hotel pools though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation"
The Germans may have been late to lay their towels on the colonial beaches, but they formed colonies in German East Africa, German West Africa, Namibia and New Guinea.
The German's are always first to lay their towels on sun loungers around hotel pools though. "
Won't argue against that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But touch Gib or the Falklands
Leave them alone there british
I wonder why they never seemed to think the same of Honk Kong though.
Maybe the Chinese had bigger boys as kevin & perry would say .
Because the UK negotiated a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium."
The UK owned Hong Kong Island, the bit of the neighbouring peninsula was on lease. We could have retained the island but that would have been a logistical nightmare. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But touch Gib or the Falklands
Leave them alone there british
I wonder why they never seemed to think the same of Honk Kong though.
Maybe the Chinese had bigger boys as kevin & perry would say .
Because the UK negotiated a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium.
The UK owned Hong Kong Island, the bit of the neighbouring peninsula was on lease. We could have retained the island but that would have been a logistical nightmare."
Different history lessons than me then.
"
Hong Kong became a colony of the British Empire after Qing China ceded Hong Kong Island at the end of the First Opium War in 1842. The colony expanded to the Kowloon Peninsula in 1860 after the Second Opium War, and was further extended when Britain obtained a 99-year lease of the New Territories in 1898.The territory was returned to China when the lease expired in 1997
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But touch Gib or the Falklands
Leave them alone there british
I wonder why they never seemed to think the same of Honk Kong though.
Maybe the Chinese had bigger boys as kevin & perry would say .
Because the UK negotiated a 99-year lease agreement for the use of Hong Kong after China lost a series of wars fought over the British trade in tea and opium.
The UK owned Hong Kong Island, the bit of the neighbouring peninsula was on lease. We could have retained the island but that would have been a logistical nightmare.
Different history lessons than me then.
Hong Kong became a colony of the British Empire after Qing China ceded Hong Kong Island at the end of the First Opium War in 1842. The colony expanded to the Kowloon Peninsula in 1860 after the Second Opium War, and was further extended when Britain obtained a 99-year lease of the New Territories in 1898.The territory was returned to China when the lease expired in 1997
"
So we leased a bit more of the peninsula... |
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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago
Spain Portugal France |
Gibraltar has been British longer than it was ever Spanish
It was taken by the English in 1704 (315 years ago) The union of Great Britain happened 3 years later
Spain as a nation only held Gibraltar for around 200 years
British Gibraltar has been in existence longer than the USA
Spain doesn’t just hold Melilla and Ceuta but forced Moroccan troops from Perejil Island in 2002 and of course Spain also holds all of the Canary Islands |
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""And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation"
The Germans may have been late to lay their towels on the colonial beaches, but they formed colonies in German East Africa, German West Africa, Namibia and New Guinea.
The German's are always first to lay their towels on sun loungers around hotel pools though. "
Proves they are people who are not a bunch of lazy f*ckers who always complain all the time .
They just get up an get involved.
Marvellous people the Germans .
Should be an example to us all . |
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""And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation"
The Germans may have been late to lay their towels on the colonial beaches, but they formed colonies in German East Africa, German West Africa, Namibia and New Guinea.
The German's are always first to lay their towels on sun loungers around hotel pools though.
Proves they are people who are not a bunch of lazy f*ckers who always complain all the time .
They just get up an get involved.
Marvellous people the Germans .
Should be an example to us all ."
If socks with sandals is one of their examples I think I'll pass. |
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""And as for Germany they may have missed out on colonisation"
The Germans may have been late to lay their towels on the colonial beaches, but they formed colonies in German East Africa, German West Africa, Namibia and New Guinea.
The German's are always first to lay their towels on sun loungers around hotel pools though.
Proves they are people who are not a bunch of lazy f*ckers who always complain all the time .
They just get up an get involved.
Marvellous people the Germans .
Should be an example to us all .
If socks with sandals is one of their examples I think I'll pass. "
Was a holiday rep for several years and we are way worse on the sunbed front than the germans but socks and sandals should be a hanging offence lol |
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