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Advantages to EU of UK Membership
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By *andS66 OP Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?"
.
I can think of one straight off... as the uk are about to find out, having strength in numbers gives you more leverage to do better deals with other countries...
There is a reason why big supermarkets can do better deals than your local corner shop |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Unity. Collective strength. Co-operation. Taking down barriers between people.
Couldn't the EU do that without the UK?"
Of course, yes. But it is a weaker Europe when parts of the continent choose not to engage.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
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"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
"
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?"
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
"
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all. |
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By *andS66 OP Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
"
Is that a specific advantage to the EU of UK membership though? If the UK wasn't a member, would the member states left be more susceptible to conflict between themselves? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Well they need our money,our know how for starters.Also Britains economy is strong and we are active in international matters and happy to help diplomatically in many situations.
We give jobs to people to the less fortunate nations of the EU at the present time.I am sure there is much more they gain from us as there is much we gain from them.Most of this could stay the same of course if it was not for stupid polititions on both sides. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Many individual politicians and certain countries would like us to remain, simply because consistantly between ourselves, the Dutch, Scandinavians, and occasionally the Germans, Spanish and Portuguese we've pulled the EU's focus away from headlong political integration, and more towards using the EU institutions to increase research and development and towards a more market orientated focus.
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"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?.
I can think of one straight off... as the uk are about to find out, having strength in numbers gives you more leverage to do better deals with other countries...
There is a reason why big supermarkets can do better deals than your local corner shop "
Remind me, what the UKs dairy farmers think of the likes of Tesco and ASDA.
Someone gets shafted. Someone always gets shafted. |
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"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
"
Is it like unhappy couples who stay together because they share a mortgage? |
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Every opinion on a plus will be met with a minus......every opinion on a minus will be countered by a plus.
Why?
Because we will forevermore be split.....but instead of being the uncomfortable uncle in the corner, we will shortly be the distant cousin in another room.
Tick tock..... |
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"Every opinion on a plus will be met with a minus......every opinion on a minus will be countered by a plus.
Why?
Because we will forevermore be split.....but instead of being the uncomfortable uncle in the corner, we will shortly be the distant cousin in another room.
Tick tock....."
It won't happen, don't worry. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Leavers haven't done very well answering questions in threads addressed to them 
The traits which I thought we brought seem to have been trashed through the Brexit process:
Pragmatism
Slightly more bias towards business representation
Good crisis planning
Polished diplomacy and political civility
Openness to immigrants
Some money
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?"
What's your view?
What are we for? |
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"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?
What's your view?
What are we for?"
Why don't you try and answer the OP? What is the advantage to the eu for keeping the uk in, if it's not just about the money the uk puts in. And please no smulch. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?
What's your view?
What are we for?
Why don't you try and answer the OP? What is the advantage to the eu for keeping the uk in, if it's not just about the money the uk puts in. And please no smulch."
Now look up  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all."
I do, yes. It started with the integration of the steel and coal communities of France, Italy, Germany etc.
Control of those had been the cause of so much earlier conflict and rancour.
Integrating the economies changed the focus from economic nationalism to international co-operation.
From that has evolved the single market we know today.
Alongside that, each entrant has signed up to fundamental principles about democracy, freedom and justice.
If you compare this to what went before, it is a no-brainer.
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By *andS66 OP Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all.
I do, yes. It started with the integration of the steel and coal communities of France, Italy, Germany etc.
Control of those had been the cause of so much earlier conflict and rancour.
Integrating the economies changed the focus from economic nationalism to international co-operation.
From that has evolved the single market we know today.
Alongside that, each entrant has signed up to fundamental principles about democracy, freedom and justice.
If you compare this to what went before, it is a no-brainer.
"
So, the presence of NATO..American and British military... in EU countries from the end of WW2 did not keep peace in EU countries....what do you think Stalin would have done if the Americans and British had just withdrawn completely at tge end if WW2? If there was no such thing as NATO?
But irrespective of that...do you think that EU countries would go to war with each other if tge UK |
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By *andS66 OP Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all.
I do, yes. It started with the integration of the steel and coal communities of France, Italy, Germany etc.
Control of those had been the cause of so much earlier conflict and rancour.
Integrating the economies changed the focus from economic nationalism to international co-operation.
From that has evolved the single market we know today.
Alongside that, each entrant has signed up to fundamental principles about democracy, freedom and justice.
If you compare this to what went before, it is a no-brainer.
So, the presence of NATO..American and British military... in EU countries from the end of WW2 did not keep peace in EU countries....what do you think Stalin would have done if the Americans and British had just withdrawn completely at tge end if WW2? If there was no such thing as NATO?
But irrespective of that...do you think that EU countries would go to war with each other if the UK was not a member of the EU?"
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"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?
What's your view?
What are we for?
Why don't you try and answer the OP? What is the advantage to the eu for keeping the uk in, if it's not just about the money the uk puts in. And please no smulch.
Now look up "
Now read "no smulch" and try and answer the question. |
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By *andS66 OP Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Leavers haven't done very well answering questions in threads addressed to them
The traits which I thought we brought seem to have been trashed through the Brexit process:
Pragmatism
Slightly more bias towards business representation
Good crisis planning
Polished diplomacy and political civility
Openness to immigrants
Some money
"
I'm not asking for "traits" or "characteristics"....nor, indeed, soundbites. The EU have consistently said that they want us to stay. What advantage to the does the UK give to the EU as members, irrespective of our membership contribution?
Anything tangible, that you could say furthers and enhances the EU project? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The contribution of UK scientists to the ITER and JET projects will be missed.
As will the contribution of UK health experts to other programmes.
In fact, just about every R & D programme at a European level will be diminished when the ties are severed.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Leavers haven't done very well answering questions in threads addressed to them
The traits which I thought we brought seem to have been trashed through the Brexit process:
Pragmatism
Slightly more bias towards business representation
Good crisis planning
Polished diplomacy and political civility
Openness to immigrants
Some money
I'm not asking for "traits" or "characteristics"....nor, indeed, soundbites. The EU have consistently said that they want us to stay. What advantage to the does the UK give to the EU as members, irrespective of our membership contribution?
Anything tangible, that you could say furthers and enhances the EU project?"
Traits fundamentally change the character of the Union. These are not "sound bites".
It changes how regulations and laws are framed because the UK approach is different and lends wait to the opinion of many smaller countries.
The EU is a rules based organisation so the UK approach fundamentally changes how these rules are formed and employed.
Is this too subtle a point? It's an incredibly important one.
The UK is also a large economy which adds to the trade negotiating power of the EU as a block.
Good intelligence links for Union wide policing and security.
Good industrial and academic organisations and staff for joint projects (although many are European and international immigrants).
A centre of finance.
However the last two are not uniquely British and can be readily transferred over time.
Are you going to answer yourself now? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?
What's your view?
What are we for?
Why don't you try and answer the OP? What is the advantage to the eu for keeping the uk in, if it's not just about the money the uk puts in. And please no smulch.
Now look up
Now read "no smulch" and try and answer the question. "
Making passive aggressive demands to answer a badly framed question that you won't answer yourself?
Then refusing to accept the answer given.
Sounds like the referendum |
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"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?
What's your view?
What are we for?
Why don't you try and answer the OP? What is the advantage to the eu for keeping the uk in, if it's not just about the money the uk puts in. And please no smulch.
Now look up
Now read "no smulch" and try and answer the question.
Making passive aggressive demands to answer a badly framed question that you won't answer yourself?
Then refusing to accept the answer given.
Sounds like the referendum "
It's ok to say " I don't know " you may find people respect you for it. It just looks better than having verbal diarrhea of the thumb.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The EU works as a network of counties which, by working together, is greater than the sum of its parts.
The frictionless nature of trade benefits all.
Sharing of information and Expertise.
Even if each country was identical, having more exponentiates the benefit.
At the extreme, one person on Facebook is “not important” but each new user increases the value of Facebook. Indeed the latest member adds more value than the first few.
It’s a network effect. It’s what makes the internet effective. Facebook effective. Fab effective. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
One advantage would be some sort of protection against the machinations of the tory regime.
The UN has already criticised the tories for their treatment of the disabled and impoverished but the tories ignored/denied it's report |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The EU have consistently said that they would like the UK to remain a member.
So, thinking about this, and forgetting about our membership contribution, what are the advantages to the EU of UK membership?
What's your view?
What are we for?
Why don't you try and answer the OP? What is the advantage to the eu for keeping the uk in, if it's not just about the money the uk puts in. And please no smulch.
Now look up
Now read "no smulch" and try and answer the question.
Making passive aggressive demands to answer a badly framed question that you won't answer yourself?
Then refusing to accept the answer given.
Sounds like the referendum
It's ok to say " I don't know " you may find people respect you for it. It just looks better than having verbal diarrhea of the thumb. "
...or my thoughts are just as valid as yours even if you don't like them.
You are still to do anything except criticise though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all.
I do, yes. It started with the integration of the steel and coal communities of France, Italy, Germany etc.
Control of those had been the cause of so much earlier conflict and rancour.
Integrating the economies changed the focus from economic nationalism to international co-operation.
From that has evolved the single market we know today.
Alongside that, each entrant has signed up to fundamental principles about democracy, freedom and justice.
If you compare this to what went before, it is a no-brainer.
"
“It started with the steel and coal communities of France, Italy, Germany etc.”
Strange one that, as I can see etc, but no mention of the UK. Maybe that is because our steel and coal industries are either totally dead or very close to being totally dead.
The only way I can see the EU being responsible for peace in the region, is because Germany has been the major benefactor. Let them get their own way and they won’t send the doodle bugs... |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all.
I do, yes. It started with the integration of the steel and coal communities of France, Italy, Germany etc.
Control of those had been the cause of so much earlier conflict and rancour.
Integrating the economies changed the focus from economic nationalism to international co-operation.
From that has evolved the single market we know today.
Alongside that, each entrant has signed up to fundamental principles about democracy, freedom and justice.
If you compare this to what went before, it is a no-brainer.
So, the presence of NATO..American and British military... in EU countries from the end of WW2 did not keep peace in EU countries....what do you think Stalin would have done if the Americans and British had just withdrawn completely at tge end if WW2? If there was no such thing as NATO?
But irrespective of that...do you think that EU countries would go to war with each other if tge UK"
I think I agree with you.
NATO’s purpose was to deter the USSR and its allies, not to keep the peace between its members.
The UK’s presence in the EU has been something of a brake on closer union. Without the UK, that brake is removed. |
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"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
"
I think NATO might have had something to do with that, don't you? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
You may well be right, but it was not its purpose.
In the war between competing ideologies in Europe, the NATO members had a vested interest in proving that capitalism was superior to communism.
Economic integration was part of that agenda. It has been a success, ensuring co-operation between states towards common goals and sustaining the longest period of peace and harmony. It is a factor often overlooked when viewed from offshore Britain where invasion and occupation has not scarred the national psyche to anything like the same degree. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
".... snipped
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
I think NATO might have had something to do with that, don't you?"
That is an appropriate answer if you are looking solely to tick the box in your ideological outlook.
The truth is more nuanced.
What causes war and conflict? Can the causes of war and conflict be removed at their root?
Conflict occurs because of real or perceived feelings of injustice. In years gone by when much of Europe was ruled by Governments intent on preserving National identities - there was never any need to mitigate the grievances that some countries had with their neighbours and hard borders often saw tit for tat hostilities without full-scale conflicts breaking out.
The European Union has effectively broken down Nationalist sentiments and the openness of the continent in terms of trading and travel has meant that countries who were formerly isolated and suspicious have become more integrated into a much bigger family. There is no point in conflict when all levels of society within Europe are effectively trading with each other and experiencing common rules and standards.
NATO may exist as a threat - but to who? individual countries within the EU? No, of course not.
The EU has effectively neutralised the instigating factors of conflict in Europe and the saddest thing of all is to see the rise of Nationalism again within Europe. History has shown us where that ends up, but the armies of nationalist supporters appear to know very little about history. |
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".... snipped
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
I think NATO might have had something to do with that, don't you?
That is an appropriate answer if you are looking solely to tick the box in your ideological outlook.
The truth is more nuanced.
What causes war and conflict? Can the causes of war and conflict be removed at their root?
Conflict occurs because of real or perceived feelings of injustice. In years gone by when much of Europe was ruled by Governments intent on preserving National identities - there was never any need to mitigate the grievances that some countries had with their neighbours and hard borders often saw tit for tat hostilities without full-scale conflicts breaking out.
The European Union has effectively broken down Nationalist sentiments and the openness of the continent in terms of trading and travel has meant that countries who were formerly isolated and suspicious have become more integrated into a much bigger family. There is no point in conflict when all levels of society within Europe are effectively trading with each other and experiencing common rules and standards.
NATO may exist as a threat - but to who? individual countries within the EU? No, of course not.
The EU has effectively neutralised the instigating factors of conflict in Europe and the saddest thing of all is to see the rise of Nationalism again within Europe. History has shown us where that ends up, but the armies of nationalist supporters appear to know very little about history."
NATO signatories have a mutual support provision, so if one country attacks a NATO signatory, they in effect take on the whole of NATO.... I kinda think that is enough to "stabilise" the region, and stop neighbour countries in Europe kicking off. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
".... snipped
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
I think NATO might have had something to do with that, don't you?
That is an appropriate answer if you are looking solely to tick the box in your ideological outlook.
The truth is more nuanced.
What causes war and conflict? Can the causes of war and conflict be removed at their root?
Conflict occurs because of real or perceived feelings of injustice. In years gone by when much of Europe was ruled by Governments intent on preserving National identities - there was never any need to mitigate the grievances that some countries had with their neighbours and hard borders often saw tit for tat hostilities without full-scale conflicts breaking out.
The European Union has effectively broken down Nationalist sentiments and the openness of the continent in terms of trading and travel has meant that countries who were formerly isolated and suspicious have become more integrated into a much bigger family. There is no point in conflict when all levels of society within Europe are effectively trading with each other and experiencing common rules and standards.
NATO may exist as a threat - but to who? individual countries within the EU? No, of course not.
The EU has effectively neutralised the instigating factors of conflict in Europe and the saddest thing of all is to see the rise of Nationalism again within Europe. History has shown us where that ends up, but the armies of nationalist supporters appear to know very little about history.
NATO signatories have a mutual support provision, so if one country attacks a NATO signatory, they in effect take on the whole of NATO.... I kinda think that is enough to "stabilise" the region, and stop neighbour countries in Europe kicking off."
That doesn't really envisage an internal confrontation does it? In effect a civil war. This is not external aggression.
This is the current problem between Turkey, the USA and the Kurds. |
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By *andS66 OP Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
".... snipped
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
I think NATO might have had something to do with that, don't you?
That is an appropriate answer if you are looking solely to tick the box in your ideological outlook.
The truth is more nuanced.
What causes war and conflict? Can the causes of war and conflict be removed at their root?
Conflict occurs because of real or perceived feelings of injustice. In years gone by when much of Europe was ruled by Governments intent on preserving National identities - there was never any need to mitigate the grievances that some countries had with their neighbours and hard borders often saw tit for tat hostilities without full-scale conflicts breaking out.
The European Union has effectively broken down Nationalist sentiments and the openness of the continent in terms of trading and travel has meant that countries who were formerly isolated and suspicious have become more integrated into a much bigger family. There is no point in conflict when all levels of society within Europe are effectively trading with each other and experiencing common rules and standards.
NATO may exist as a threat - but to who? individual countries within the EU? No, of course not.
The EU has effectively neutralised the instigating factors of conflict in Europe and the saddest thing of all is to see the rise of Nationalism again within Europe. History has shown us where that ends up, but the armies of nationalist supporters appear to know very little about history.
NATO signatories have a mutual support provision, so if one country attacks a NATO signatory, they in effect take on the whole of NATO.... I kinda think that is enough to "stabilise" the region, and stop neighbour countries in Europe kicking off.
That doesn't really envisage an internal confrontation does it? In effect a civil war. This is not external aggression.
This is the current problem between Turkey, the USA and the Kurds."
So the EU has stopped civil wars from happening? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
".... snipped
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
I think NATO might have had something to do with that, don't you?
That is an appropriate answer if you are looking solely to tick the box in your ideological outlook.
The truth is more nuanced.
What causes war and conflict? Can the causes of war and conflict be removed at their root?
Conflict occurs because of real or perceived feelings of injustice. In years gone by when much of Europe was ruled by Governments intent on preserving National identities - there was never any need to mitigate the grievances that some countries had with their neighbours and hard borders often saw tit for tat hostilities without full-scale conflicts breaking out.
The European Union has effectively broken down Nationalist sentiments and the openness of the continent in terms of trading and travel has meant that countries who were formerly isolated and suspicious have become more integrated into a much bigger family. There is no point in conflict when all levels of society within Europe are effectively trading with each other and experiencing common rules and standards.
NATO may exist as a threat - but to who? individual countries within the EU? No, of course not.
The EU has effectively neutralised the instigating factors of conflict in Europe and the saddest thing of all is to see the rise of Nationalism again within Europe. History has shown us where that ends up, but the armies of nationalist supporters appear to know very little about history.
NATO signatories have a mutual support provision, so if one country attacks a NATO signatory, they in effect take on the whole of NATO.... I kinda think that is enough to "stabilise" the region, and stop neighbour countries in Europe kicking off.
That doesn't really envisage an internal confrontation does it? In effect a civil war. This is not external aggression.
This is the current problem between Turkey, the USA and the Kurds.
So the EU has stopped civil wars from happening?"
You tend not to war with people you trade with. With people you've worked with. With people who's homes you've visited and have visited yours. With people who are members of your family.
Once people have a face it's difficult to dehumanise them enough to want to kill them.
It can be done. Look at the fear and anger whipped up against Syrian refugees and how Yugoslavia ended up.
However, it's harder.
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"There are some - quite a lot, in fact - who see Europe only in terms of numbers on a balance sheet, which I find sad. Myopic even.
Lots of things about life cannot be converted into numbers on a balance sheet.
So ignoring all that. Do you have anything tangible?
The longest period of peace between states since the Romans left.
Do you credit the eu for peace? I think its more to do people of all countries having more information,better comunications and travelling more.Nothing to do with the eu at all."
Well it is Schengen and the Eu that have enabled free movement of people (travelling more), driven communications carriers to price calls, data and text the same in your visited country as your home country and published more research data to allow greater information. So on this basis, yes we can credit the Eu for sustaining peace, but also in changing Britain from an insular, hierarchical society to one where we are more multi cultural, less racist, more open to LGBT and essentially a much nicer place than it used to be. |
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