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The northern ireland border
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"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. " That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. " One of the quirks of Switzerland, is that the Swiss on the German border get their pizzas delivered from Germany at a third of the price that they'd pay in Switzerland! | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. " It’s also double land locked with Eu countries or an eea country. So the risks are a lot smaller of it being a hole in the EUs regs. | |||
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"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. " Isn’t Switzerland in EFTA or the EEA, though? | |||
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"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. Isn’t Switzerland in EFTA or the EEA, though?" Switzerland is an EFTA state but not party to the EEA Agreement. | |||
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"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. Isn’t Switzerland in EFTA or the EEA, though? Switzerland is an EFTA state but not party to the EEA Agreement." Which explains why it has no need for hard borders - it is aligned with the single market of its neighbours. | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. Isn’t Switzerland in EFTA or the EEA, though? Switzerland is an EFTA state but not party to the EEA Agreement. Which explains why it has no need for hard borders - it is aligned with the single market of its neighbours." It has hard borders, see my post further up. | |||
"The Brextremists who said the border would be unaffected were the ones who also said we would have a trade deal even better than the existing arrangement. Now they say the UK should default to WTO rules when it leaves the single market and customs union. WTO rules recognise the free-trade zone across Europe on condition that controls are applied to its perimeter. WTO rules require UK to exercise controls, too. In theory, the UK can apply zero tariff rates on goods entering the UK and so avoid controls on this side. Under WTO rules, that would make our “favoured nation” rate zero and this would also need to apply to the rest of the world. It is generally accepted that a tariff rate of zero on imports from the rest of the world will destroy British manufacturing and agriculture. In terms of people, the common travel area allows free movement between the Republic and the UK. The single market allows free movement between the Republic and the rest of EU. It seems completely bizarre that the Brextremists want controls on goods and people at our air and sea entry points, but want none on entry on land." That doesn't apply to the UK- just the rest of the world! | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. " I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it" It’s as though they’ve signed an agreement to allow this ... | |||
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"“Leaving the EU will leave the border absolutely unchanged” - Boris Johnson, February 2016 " Didn't EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier confirm this yesterday. Barnier said that if the UK leaves the EU with no deal the EU will have to implement procedures to ensure the border remains open so no hard border emerges. Nigel Farage reacted to Barnier's comments and called the Irish backstop a hoax. Journalists attempted to question Barnier and asked him if you intend to keep the border open in the event of no deal then what is the point in the backstop? Barnier's reply,....."write what you want".  | |||
"The Brextremists who said the border would be unaffected were the ones who also said we would have a trade deal even better than the existing arrangement. Now they say the UK should default to WTO rules when it leaves the single market and customs union. WTO rules recognise the free-trade zone across Europe on condition that controls are applied to its perimeter. WTO rules require UK to exercise controls, too. In theory, the UK can apply zero tariff rates on goods entering the UK and so avoid controls on this side. Under WTO rules, that would make our “favoured nation” rate zero and this would also need to apply to the rest of the world. It is generally accepted that a tariff rate of zero on imports from the rest of the world will destroy British manufacturing and agriculture. In terms of people, the common travel area allows free movement between the Republic and the UK. The single market allows free movement between the Republic and the rest of EU. It seems completely bizarre that the Brextremists want controls on goods and people at our air and sea entry points, but want none on entry on land." Three words 'Good Friday agreement'. That's the only reason the border in Ireland has to remain open. The good Friday agreement doesn't apply to our sea and airports such as Dover, Heathrow, Gatwick, etc so strict controls will be in place there, but Ireland is a special case because of the good Friday agreement. You talk about WTO rules and if the UK leaves the EU with no deal we can agree to negotiate a Canada style free trade agreement with the EU after March 29th as a 3rd country. Under WTO rules this would give both the UK and the EU a 10 year exemption on border controls being needed in Ireland while negotiations are ongoing until the trade deal is concluded. It doesn't have to last the full 10 year exemption period if the UK and the EU conclude a deal in 4 years (as an example) then the new rules and conditions of the agreed free trade deal would come into effect after 4 years superseding previous arrangements. | |||
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"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it" That is because the Swiss took a pragmatic approach in that they don’t check every car that crosses the border (because of schengen) but they do check every van or lorry! So you see there are different checkpoints..... | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it That is because the Swiss took a pragmatic approach in that they don’t check every car that crosses the border (because of schengen) but they do check every van or lorry! So you see there are different checkpoints....." If a vehicle enters Switzerland via the motorway network, there has to be a vignette for each vehicle, purchased at the border and funnily enough, there always seems to be border guards patrolling! | |||
"If the UK leaves without an agreement, I am pretty certain the financial, legal and political mess it has created will have no-one queuing up to talk trade with the UK any time soon." I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. International trade secretary Liam Fox already has over 20 countries queuing up to sign trade deals with the UK when we leave the EU. The government is also looking to roll over some existing trade deals the UK already has through the EU with other countries on a bilateral basis after Brexit. | |||
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"If the UK leaves without an agreement, I am pretty certain the financial, legal and political mess it has created will have no-one queuing up to talk trade with the UK any time soon. I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. International trade secretary Liam Fox already has over 20 countries queuing up to sign trade deals with the UK when we leave the EU. The government is also looking to roll over some existing trade deals the UK already has through the EU with other countries on a bilateral basis after Brexit. " Lolol the UK is leaving a $20 trillion free trade area because it does not like taking rules from others. Now you want to take US rules instead of European ones. That's what happens when a $3tn market come up against a $19tn market - it is not a negotiation of equals. And those 40-odd free trade agreements that Fox promised would be ready to go a second after the UK leaves the EU? Perhaps you can point to them. Certainly, the questions in Parliament this week showed how hollow those claims were. | |||
"If the UK leaves without an agreement, I am pretty certain the financial, legal and political mess it has created will have no-one queuing up to talk trade with the UK any time soon. I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. International trade secretary Liam Fox already has over 20 countries queuing up to sign trade deals with the UK when we leave the EU. The government is also looking to roll over some existing trade deals the UK already has through the EU with other countries on a bilateral basis after Brexit. " What you mean is trump will try and bully his type of deal through like he has tried with others.. Then he will spin it when the outcome doesn't match his hyperbolic rhetorical claptrap.. | |||
"If the UK leaves without an agreement, I am pretty certain the financial, legal and political mess it has created will have no-one queuing up to talk trade with the UK any time soon. I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. International trade secretary Liam Fox already has over 20 countries queuing up to sign trade deals with the UK when we leave the EU. The government is also looking to roll over some existing trade deals the UK already has through the EU with other countries on a bilateral basis after Brexit. Lolol the UK is leaving a $20 trillion free trade area because it does not like taking rules from others. Now you want to take US rules instead of European ones. That's what happens when a $3tn market come up against a $19tn market - it is not a negotiation of equals. And those 40-odd free trade agreements that Fox promised would be ready to go a second after the UK leaves the EU? Perhaps you can point to them. Certainly, the questions in Parliament this week showed how hollow those claims were." Do you really have so little faith in the uk that you think no one would want to trade with us because we left your precious eu.It must be really depressing for some of you remainers being so negative all the time. | |||
"If the UK leaves without an agreement, I am pretty certain the financial, legal and political mess it has created will have no-one queuing up to talk trade with the UK any time soon. I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. International trade secretary Liam Fox already has over 20 countries queuing up to sign trade deals with the UK when we leave the EU. The government is also looking to roll over some existing trade deals the UK already has through the EU with other countries on a bilateral basis after Brexit. Lolol the UK is leaving a $20 trillion free trade area because it does not like taking rules from others. Now you want to take US rules instead of European ones. That's what happens when a $3tn market come up against a $19tn market - it is not a negotiation of equals. And those 40-odd free trade agreements that Fox promised would be ready to go a second after the UK leaves the EU? Perhaps you can point to them. Certainly, the questions in Parliament this week showed how hollow those claims were.Do you really have so little faith in the uk that you think no one would want to trade with us because we left your precious eu.It must be really depressing for some of you remainers being so negative all the time." So you don't know either? Nor do I but I think it's certainly a valid question to ask.. | |||
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"I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. " And you think that would be a good deal for us, do you? Trump is still on his 'America first' routine. He's not going to give us a nice friendly deal. We'll have to lower food standards and follow a lot of US rules. Or as Brexiters put it, give up our sovereignty. | |||
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"I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. And you think that would be a good deal for us, do you? Trump is still on his 'America first' routine. He's not going to give us a nice friendly deal. We'll have to lower food standards and follow a lot of US rules. Or as Brexiters put it, give up our sovereignty. " Yes I do think Trump would give us a very good deal and here's why. Trump is thinking ahead and would like to tempt other disillusioned EU countries to leave. Do you really think the best way for him to achieve that would be to give the UK a shit deal? Get real, the way for Trump to tempt others to leave would be to give the UK a great deal. Not to mention he's half British, is a self confessed Anglophile, and is a Brexit supporter. As Trump publicly backed Brexit he wants to see it emerge as a success. Trump is great friends with Nigel Farage and they worked together on Trumps election campaign, I suspect they've already talked tactics on post Brexit UK-USA trade and relations to make it a success. Trump dislikes the EU immensely, best way for him to undermine the EU is to give the UK a great deal. | |||
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"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it That is because the Swiss took a pragmatic approach in that they don’t check every car that crosses the border (because of schengen) but they do check every van or lorry! So you see there are different checkpoints....." Have you ever crossed the France/swiss border ? They arent manned half the time, mainly only 9 to 5 when I have crossed them, one of my best mates spent most of his life crossing europe in an hgv and says he rarely got stopped and never at night, didnt you know smugglers only operate during working hours | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it That is because the Swiss took a pragmatic approach in that they don’t check every car that crosses the border (because of schengen) but they do check every van or lorry! So you see there are different checkpoints..... If a vehicle enters Switzerland via the motorway network, there has to be a vignette for each vehicle, purchased at the border and funnily enough, there always seems to be border guards patrolling!" You are MEANT to have one but I have driven through switzerland four times including using the motorway and secondary roads I have never purchased one and even when we were stopped we werent asked about it,they can be hot though I have heard of people being fined for not having it placed or stuck on properly, especially in the german speaking sector I wonder why | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it That is because the Swiss took a pragmatic approach in that they don’t check every car that crosses the border (because of schengen) but they do check every van or lorry! So you see there are different checkpoints..... If a vehicle enters Switzerland via the motorway network, there has to be a vignette for each vehicle, purchased at the border and funnily enough, there always seems to be border guards patrolling! You are MEANT to have one but I have driven through switzerland four times including using the motorway and secondary roads I have never purchased one and even when we were stopped we werent asked about it,they can be hot though I have heard of people being fined for not having it placed or stuck on properly, especially in the german speaking sector I wonder why "Well you are a law breaker then, and take your chance, and I know someone who got a 1,000SF fine! I would rather pay and be legal- personal choice! | |||
"The Brextremists who said the border would be unaffected were the ones who also said we would have a trade deal even better than the existing arrangement. Now they say the UK should default to WTO rules when it leaves the single market and customs union. WTO rules recognise the free-trade zone across Europe on condition that controls are applied to its perimeter. WTO rules require UK to exercise controls, too. In theory, the UK can apply zero tariff rates on goods entering the UK and so avoid controls on this side. Under WTO rules, that would make our “favoured nation” rate zero and this would also need to apply to the rest of the world. It is generally accepted that a tariff rate of zero on imports from the rest of the world will destroy British manufacturing and agriculture. In terms of people, the common travel area allows free movement between the Republic and the UK. The single market allows free movement between the Republic and the rest of EU. It seems completely bizarre that the Brextremists want controls on goods and people at our air and sea entry points, but want none on entry on land. Three words 'Good Friday agreement'. That's the only reason the border in Ireland has to remain open. The good Friday agreement doesn't apply to our sea and airports such as Dover, Heathrow, Gatwick, etc so strict controls will be in place there, but Ireland is a special case because of the good Friday agreement. You talk about WTO rules and if the UK leaves the EU with no deal we can agree to negotiate a Canada style free trade agreement with the EU after March 29th as a 3rd country. Under WTO rules this would give both the UK and the EU a 10 year exemption on border controls being needed in Ireland while negotiations are ongoing until the trade deal is concluded. It doesn't have to last the full 10 year exemption period if the UK and the EU conclude a deal in 4 years (as an example) then the new rules and conditions of the agreed free trade deal would come into effect after 4 years superseding previous arrangements. " isnt the ten year period an implementation period not a negotiation period ? What terms are we on during that time if we are negotiating? | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it That is because the Swiss took a pragmatic approach in that they don’t check every car that crosses the border (because of schengen) but they do check every van or lorry! So you see there are different checkpoints..... Have you ever crossed the France/swiss border ? They arent manned half the time, mainly only 9 to 5 when I have crossed them, one of my best mates spent most of his life crossing europe in an hgv and says he rarely got stopped and never at night, didnt you know smugglers only operate during working hours "start of thread ... we should be like the Swiss. It’s that easy. End of thread ... it’s easy to smuggle past the Swiss. | |||
"I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. And you think that would be a good deal for us, do you? Trump is still on his 'America first' routine. He's not going to give us a nice friendly deal. We'll have to lower food standards and follow a lot of US rules. Or as Brexiters put it, give up our sovereignty. Yes I do think Trump would give us a very good deal and here's why. Trump is thinking ahead and would like to tempt other disillusioned EU countries to leave. Do you really think the best way for him to achieve that would be to give the UK a shit deal? Get real, the way for Trump to tempt others to leave would be to give the UK a great deal. Not to mention he's half British, is a self confessed Anglophile, and is a Brexit supporter. As Trump publicly backed Brexit he wants to see it emerge as a success. Trump is great friends with Nigel Farage and they worked together on Trumps election campaign, I suspect they've already talked tactics on post Brexit UK-USA trade and relations to make it a success. Trump dislikes the EU immensely, best way for him to undermine the EU is to give the UK a great deal. " Trump wants the other Eu countries to break away why ? I’m guessing because it’s easier to pump them when they are separate. So will give us a good deal. That logic only really works if we’re the proverbial sprat. | |||
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"That's because Trump, unlike you Centaur, understands that countries standing alone are weaker and easier to bully than countries that club together and stand strong." The EU is going to collapse sooner or later anyway, I give it 10 years max. Even EU cheerleader George Soros has seen the writing on the wall now and says the EU project is broken and will collapse. Historian Niall Ferguson along with former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King also say it's doomed to fail. The whole thing has been a house of cards ever since they introduced the Euro single currency. Best to be smart and be the first ones to leave and take advantage of getting a bumper trade deal with the USA first for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread. | |||
"That's because Trump, unlike you Centaur, understands that countries standing alone are weaker and easier to bully than countries that club together and stand strong. The EU is going to collapse sooner or later anyway, I give it 10 years max. Even EU cheerleader George Soros has seen the writing on the wall now and says the EU project is broken and will collapse. Historian Niall Ferguson along with former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King also say it's doomed to fail. The whole thing has been a house of cards ever since they introduced the Euro single currency. Best to be smart and be the first ones to leave and take advantage of getting a bumper trade deal with the USA first for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread. " Now I’m really lost. Trump will give us a bumper trade deal to entice the others out of the EU. But the EU is a house of cards. So no bait is needed. Trump will get his wish regardless. | |||
"That's because Trump, unlike you Centaur, understands that countries standing alone are weaker and easier to bully than countries that club together and stand strong. The EU is going to collapse sooner or later anyway, I give it 10 years max. Even EU cheerleader George Soros has seen the writing on the wall now and says the EU project is broken and will collapse. Historian Niall Ferguson along with former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King also say it's doomed to fail. The whole thing has been a house of cards ever since they introduced the Euro single currency. Best to be smart and be the first ones to leave and take advantage of getting a bumper trade deal with the USA first for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread. Now I’m really lost. Trump will give us a bumper trade deal to entice the others out of the EU. But the EU is a house of cards. So no bait is needed. Trump will get his wish regardless. " Yes, the EU will collapse but the USA giving the UK a great trade deal after Brexit will speed up the process. When a sick animal (the EU) is terminally ill do you drag out the process or put it to sleep? There is a cure on offer for the UK and that is to cut ourselves away from the cancer, the cure is called Brexit. | |||
"That's because Trump, unlike you Centaur, understands that countries standing alone are weaker and easier to bully than countries that club together and stand strong. The EU is going to collapse sooner or later anyway, I give it 10 years max. Even EU cheerleader George Soros has seen the writing on the wall now and says the EU project is broken and will collapse. Historian Niall Ferguson along with former governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King also say it's doomed to fail. The whole thing has been a house of cards ever since they introduced the Euro single currency. Best to be smart and be the first ones to leave and take advantage of getting a bumper trade deal with the USA first for the reasons I gave earlier in the thread. Now I’m really lost. Trump will give us a bumper trade deal to entice the others out of the EU. But the EU is a house of cards. So no bait is needed. Trump will get his wish regardless. Yes, the EU will collapse but the USA giving the UK a great trade deal after Brexit will speed up the process. When a sick animal (the EU) is terminally ill do you drag out the process or put it to sleep? There is a cure on offer for the UK and that is to cut ourselves away from the cancer, the cure is called Brexit. " I’m not buying trump would be willing to “spend” in order to accelerate something that will happen in ten years (or are you predicting less?) Not unless the spend is minimal, which if we are seeing as great, then means we’re small fry. And why is he trying to kill the EU? Because he’s a compassionate and humane dog lover ? | |||
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"Ps feel free to engage on the ten years part of this thread.... In summary. What terms will we be on during the “negotiation period” given we are in negotiation over terms. " WTO terms with WTO tariffs during the negotiation period with a WTO exemption on border controls to honour the good Friday agreement. After the free trade deal is concluded the terms of the free trade deal come into effect to supercede the previous terms. I thought that was fairly obvious. | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree." If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree. If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. " The members of the WTO are not obliged to honour it though. | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree. If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. The members of the WTO are not obliged to honour it though." Which members of the WTO do you think would want to stand in the way of a peace process (the good Friday agreement). | |||
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"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree. If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. The members of the WTO are not obliged to honour it though. Which members of the WTO do you think would want to stand in the way of a peace process (the good Friday agreement). " I see your problem here. You think it’s my opinion. I’m just pointing out what an Australian trade negotiator stated. Due to the fact I can’t see how he has a dog in this fight, I think I’m going to look on his opinion has being impartial backed up by a bit of actual knowledge of the subject. | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree. If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. The members of the WTO are not obliged to honour it though. Which members of the WTO do you think would want to stand in the way of a peace process (the good Friday agreement). I see your problem here. You think it’s my opinion. I’m just pointing out what an Australian trade negotiator stated. Due to the fact I can’t see how he has a dog in this fight, I think I’m going to look on his opinion has being impartial backed up by a bit of actual knowledge of the subject." In other words you can't name a single country. | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree." This was shit moggsy was trying to tell his followers that was debunked a while back.. and they still spout it even though he had to retract it.. Also he claims food and clothing would be cheaper and quotes all the time an article from the sun... even The Sun had to retract the article saying they had got it wrong They just cling onto anything... it’s going to be the hope that kills them when reality kicks them square in the nads | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree. If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. The members of the WTO are not obliged to honour it though. Which members of the WTO do you think would want to stand in the way of a peace process (the good Friday agreement). " Viewed from the outside, it is the action of the UK that jeopardises the Belfast Agreement. The agreement was possible because the territories on either side were in alignment through common membership of a free trade area. Now the UK is changing. All this guffawing about a backstop still does not address the fundamental problem - a hard Brexit means hard borders. A hard Brexit is incompatible with the Belfast Agreement and the UK needs to decide what is more imporant. The lunatic fringe of the Conservative Party has made its position clear. Unfortunately, Mrs May seems more interested in appeasing the nutcases in her own party than she does in the wellbeing of the country of large. | |||
"Ps feel free to engage on the ten years part of this thread.... In summary. What terms will we be on during the “negotiation period” given we are in negotiation over terms. WTO terms with WTO tariffs during the negotiation period with a WTO exemption on border controls to honour the good Friday agreement. After the free trade deal is concluded the terms of the free trade deal come into effect to supercede the previous terms. I thought that was fairly obvious. " Okay the waiver (on national security grounds) isn’t the ten year rule. Some suggest it may only apply to N Ireland (Eg Irish Sea border). Others aren’t sure the national security argument holds. Or won’t be challenged. (Eg by the US). Doesn’t seem clean cut. | |||
"With regards to us having up to 10 years under sec 24 of GAT, the precursor of WTO, to carry on trading tariffs free with the EU if we leave on a no deal. This was debunked today on LCB radio by an Australian trade negotiator. Not only would the EU have to agree to this, but more importantly all members the WTO have to agree. If the Republic of Ireland and the EU want to honour the good Friday agreement they'd have no choice but to agree to it. The members of the WTO are not obliged to honour it though. Which members of the WTO do you think would want to stand in the way of a peace process (the good Friday agreement). Viewed from the outside, it is the action of the UK that jeopardises the Belfast Agreement. The agreement was possible because the territories on either side were in alignment through common membership of a free trade area. Now the UK is changing. All this guffawing about a backstop still does not address the fundamental problem - a hard Brexit means hard borders. A hard Brexit is incompatible with the Belfast Agreement and the UK needs to decide what is more imporant. The lunatic fringe of the Conservative Party has made its position clear. Unfortunately, Mrs May seems more interested in appeasing the nutcases in her own party than she does in the wellbeing of the country of large." But Michel Barnier admitted 2 days ago there wouldn't be a hard border in Ireland even if there is a no deal hard Brexit. He admitted technology solutions would be put in place to solve it. His comments have been widely reported in the news media. | |||
"Ps feel free to engage on the ten years part of this thread.... In summary. What terms will we be on during the “negotiation period” given we are in negotiation over terms. WTO terms with WTO tariffs during the negotiation period with a WTO exemption on border controls to honour the good Friday agreement. After the free trade deal is concluded the terms of the free trade deal come into effect to supercede the previous terms. I thought that was fairly obvious. Okay the waiver (on national security grounds) isn’t the ten year rule. Some suggest it may only apply to N Ireland (Eg Irish Sea border). Others aren’t sure the national security argument holds. Or won’t be challenged. (Eg by the US). Doesn’t seem clean cut. " For national security in military terms we'll still be in Nato and we'll still have policing over international borders as part of Interpol after Brexit. The UK is also one of the main players in the 5 eyes intelligence group. MI5 and MI6 are regarded as one of the best intelligence services in the world along with the American CIA. We may be losing membership of Europol when we leave the EU but Europol is a poor man's Interpol in my opinion, and it's the EU who is losing MI5 and MI6 not the UK. Who was it who raided Sepp Blater's offices in Europe over the FIFA corruption scandal? It wasn't any European police force it was the American FBI, so I do find this security argument to be a bit of a red herring. | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. That's not correct, there is hard border. Although Switzerland is part of the EU Schengen area and no passport checks are required for entry, border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border. I have crossed the french swiss borders many times only ever been stopped once and asked if I had any food in the truck, didnt ask for passport, ID or anything,most of the time the offices both sides are locked up and noone at home so its only a border at times, no reason for the irish one to be any more strict, of course the EU might want one there, we can be pretty relaxed about it" That's because there's no passport control because of Schengen, but there is check ups on goods. To say the Irish should just adopt the same easy border attitude than the Swiss is just sheer arrogance and ignorance. The Swiss have negotiated bilateral deals with the EU over decades and there was no troubles in Switzerland. With a no deal Brexit all existing agreements will be null and void by the 29th. The border is as much an Irish one as it is a UK one and it's questionable which nation would be more insisting on a hard border. | |||
"Ps feel free to engage on the ten years part of this thread.... In summary. What terms will we be on during the “negotiation period” given we are in negotiation over terms. WTO terms with WTO tariffs during the negotiation period with a WTO exemption on border controls to honour the good Friday agreement. After the free trade deal is concluded the terms of the free trade deal come into effect to supercede the previous terms. I thought that was fairly obvious. Okay the waiver (on national security grounds) isn’t the ten year rule. Some suggest it may only apply to N Ireland (Eg Irish Sea border). Others aren’t sure the national security argument holds. Or won’t be challenged. (Eg by the US). Doesn’t seem clean cut. For national security in military terms we'll still be in Nato and we'll still have policing over international borders as part of Interpol after Brexit. The UK is also one of the main players in the 5 eyes intelligence group. MI5 and MI6 are regarded as one of the best intelligence services in the world along with the American CIA. We may be losing membership of Europol when we leave the EU but Europol is a poor man's Interpol in my opinion, and it's the EU who is losing MI5 and MI6 not the UK. Who was it who raided Sepp Blater's offices in Europe over the FIFA corruption scandal? It wasn't any European police force it was the American FBI, so I do find this security argument to be a bit of a red herring. " Actually, the offices were raided by Swiss police. However, the involvement of the FBI was entirely appropriate since it was an investigation of corruption associated with a tournament in the USA. Trying to use that as an example of how shite Interpol are is pathetic. Youre either entirely uniformed about the case in question, or you're making stuff up for effect | |||
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"i wonder what Ireland will do in the case of a no deal will they break the good friday agreement to keep their eu friends happy and put up a hard boarder?Seems to me if the uk do nothing about a boarder its their problem." The UK already faces obstacles being accepted into WTO. Carry on and multiply them by all means. The only way to avoid controls on the UK side, in theory, is to operate a unilateral zero-tariff regime with the world. That would apply equally in Dover as in Derry. How do you propose to take back control of the movement of people from the EU into the UK? | |||
"i wonder what Ireland will do in the case of a no deal will they break the good friday agreement to keep their eu friends happy and put up a hard boarder?Seems to me if the uk do nothing about a boarder its their problem. The UK already faces obstacles being accepted into WTO. Carry on and multiply them by all means. The only way to avoid controls on the UK side, in theory, is to operate a unilateral zero-tariff regime with the world. That would apply equally in Dover as in Derry. How do you propose to take back control of the movement of people from the EU into the UK?" As 80% of irelands trade goes through the uk i cant see a problem we have boarders with europe whats to stop us saying we will honor the good friday agreement and not have a boarder in ireland.As for people if they want to get to the uk through ireland let them we dont need a boarder,get landlords to check that they have the relevent documents before renting and companys to check they are eligible to work cant see many wanting to come if they have no work or anywhere to live. | |||
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"Because it is non-compliant with WTO basically. On the question of people, the Border Force said this week it will be impossible to differentiate between EU nationals with a right to be here and EU nationals without that right, because the systems and agreements are not in place. Any EU national can arrive in the UK, say they have a right to be here and the Border Force has no way of checking." There will be once the right to reside have all applied.As i said if they cant work, find a place to live get medical treatment how many do you think will come? | |||
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"Are you saying there are no controls at the border, only at the letting agent, the job centre or the GP surgery? One begins to wonder what the point of Brexit actually is." No control at the irish boarder yeah why not. | |||
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"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie." How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it." Its the U.k's choice to leave the EU & therefore down to U.k to fulfill its need to control its own Boarders. Its called Sovereignty or something so ive been told  | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it." Lol what a mess you people have created. The populist rhetoric exposed as dog-whistle politics, your response is: Fuck the EU Fuck the borders Take back control, eh? You haven’t a clue what to do. | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it." An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? | |||
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"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? " what the fuck you on about there are open borders now from ireland. | |||
"If the UK leaves without an agreement, I am pretty certain the financial, legal and political mess it has created will have no-one queuing up to talk trade with the UK any time soon. I dont think Donald Trump would care if we leave the EU on no deal and would sign a new trade deal with us in a heartbeat. International trade secretary Liam Fox already has over 20 countries queuing up to sign trade deals with the UK when we leave the EU. The government is also looking to roll over some existing trade deals the UK already has through the EU with other countries on a bilateral basis after Brexit. Lolol the UK is leaving a $20 trillion free trade area because it does not like taking rules from others. Now you want to take US rules instead of European ones. That's what happens when a $3tn market come up against a $19tn market - it is not a negotiation of equals. And those 40-odd free trade agreements that Fox promised would be ready to go a second after the UK leaves the EU? Perhaps you can point to them. Certainly, the questions in Parliament this week showed how hollow those claims were.Do you really have so little faith in the uk that you think no one would want to trade with us because we left your precious eu.It must be really depressing for some of you remainers being so negative all the time."  | |||
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"As i said let them put a border up the backstop is their red line,alot of people in the republic will be pissed off with them if they cant pop over the border for cheaper booze and groceries." . Be careful what you wish for ,,,,, it may be those in the north getting upset that they can't pop over the border for cheaper food , drinks and goods ,,,, I am not saying that will happen but no one can guarentee that it won't | |||
"As i said let them put a border up the backstop is their red line,alot of people in the republic will be pissed off with them if they cant pop over the border for cheaper booze and groceries." Open border, no control over who enters the UK. Makes you wonder why anyone chose to vote leave. | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? " The EU policy terrorists salivate over is the border free schengen zone on mainland Europe. Terrorists can cross borders at will there with no checks. In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. | |||
"Imagine the laughter if Donald Trump said he was building half a wall to keep terrorists out lol" Why would he do that? Does the USA have a good Friday agreement with Mexico  | |||
"“We’ll be in charge of our own borders. In a world with so many new threats, it’s safer to control our own borders and decide for ourselves who can come into this country” - Vote Leave website Except, it seems, on the only border we have with the EU. " It's not though is it because Gibraltar has a land border with Spain. I fully expect there to be a hard border there with checks as Spain and Gibraltar don't have a peace process called the good Friday agreement to abide by. What part of Ireland are a special isolated case because of the good Friday agreement are you failing to understand? | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? The EU policy terrorists salivate over is the border free schengen zone on mainland Europe. Terrorists can cross borders at will there with no checks. In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. " I get it now. Ireland will know who is arriving on its territory because they will check IDs. It’s only the UK who won’t know who is crossing into its. Cool. Did I miss that on the side of a bus? | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? The EU policy terrorists salivate over is the border free schengen zone on mainland Europe. Terrorists can cross borders at will there with no checks. In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. I get it now. Ireland will know who is arriving on its territory because they will check IDs. It’s only the UK who won’t know who is crossing into its. Cool. Did I miss that on the side of a bus?" Again did you miss Michel Barnier's comments 2 days ago that the EU will put in place measures to keep the Irish border open even in the event of no deal. What do you think these measures are? They are the technology solutions such as number plate recognition, trusted trader schemes, GPS parcel tracking and delivery, etc that Brexiteers have been saying would solve it all along. Only 1 in 100 container's from ships coming into Ireland from the rest of the world get checked by border staff. The checks are already very light to begin with, the reality is the Irish border is being used as a political tool by remainers to try to frustrate the UK leaving the EU. | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? The EU policy terrorists salivate over is the border free schengen zone on mainland Europe. Terrorists can cross borders at will there with no checks. In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. " You are a complete muppet at times Centy, only you would think the phrase stroll over is a literal interpretation with a bloody sea in the way..  | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? The EU policy terrorists salivate over is the border free schengen zone on mainland Europe. Terrorists can cross borders at will there with no checks. In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. I get it now. Ireland will know who is arriving on its territory because they will check IDs. It’s only the UK who won’t know who is crossing into its. Cool. Did I miss that on the side of a bus? Again did you miss Michel Barnier's comments 2 days ago that the EU will put in place measures to keep the Irish border open even in the event of no deal. What do you think these measures are? They are the technology solutions such as number plate recognition, trusted trader schemes, GPS parcel tracking and delivery, etc that Brexiteers have been saying would solve it all along. Only 1 in 100 container's from ships coming into Ireland from the rest of the world get checked by border staff. The checks are already very light to begin with, the reality is the Irish border is being used as a political tool by remainers to try to frustrate the UK leaving the EU. " Unicorn, unicorn.. There, over there..
Brexit fantasy tech which is wishful thinking..
Email your mate Liam, that may help him.. | |||
"So no controls or checks on people entering the UK, then. Funny, I did not see that written on the side of a bus or Facebook. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another bogus claim exposed as a lie.How many people do you think are going to want to come here if its going to be as shit as you keep making out?.Im saying fuck the eu if they want a boarder let them do it,they havnt got an answer to it either apart from stay half in.Its their red line they can sort it. An open border is something that terrorists will salivate over, they simply enter the south then stroll over.. How can anyone however they voted think that equates to greater control of our borders? The EU policy terrorists salivate over is the border free schengen zone on mainland Europe. Terrorists can cross borders at will there with no checks. In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. I get it now. Ireland will know who is arriving on its territory because they will check IDs. It’s only the UK who won’t know who is crossing into its. Cool. Did I miss that on the side of a bus? Again did you miss Michel Barnier's comments 2 days ago that the EU will put in place measures to keep the Irish border open even in the event of no deal. What do you think these measures are? They are the technology solutions such as number plate recognition, trusted trader schemes, GPS parcel tracking and delivery, etc that Brexiteers have been saying would solve it all along. Only 1 in 100 container's from ships coming into Ireland from the rest of the world get checked by border staff. The checks are already very light to begin with, the reality is the Irish border is being used as a political tool by remainers to try to frustrate the UK leaving the EU. Unicorn, unicorn.. There, over there..
Brexit fantasy tech which is wishful thinking..
Email your mate Liam, that may help him.. "The report is here, have a read... www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1077377/Brexit-news-EU-Ireland-backstop-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-Michel-Barnier-theresa-may-deal-latest The exact quote from Michel Barnier when replying to questions about a no deal Brexit is,... "So, we'll find an operational way of carrying out checks and controls without putting back in place a border". This proves without doubt that as Nigel Farage has said, the Irish backstop is a hoax, dreamt up by remainers to try to keep the UK in the EU. | |||
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"A stronger leader would have called the bluff of the DUP and put it to the people of the North. If they are happy to stay in commercial alignment with the Republic, it should not be a problem for people on the mainland." I take it you dont know many loyalists.You do make me laugh never in a million years would they vote for anything that would take them further from the uk and nearer the republic.Thats the quickest way to go back to the old days. | |||
"Ps feel free to engage on the ten years part of this thread.... In summary. What terms will we be on during the “negotiation period” given we are in negotiation over terms. WTO terms with WTO tariffs during the negotiation period with a WTO exemption on border controls to honour the good Friday agreement. After the free trade deal is concluded the terms of the free trade deal come into effect to supercede the previous terms. I thought that was fairly obvious. Okay the waiver (on national security grounds) isn’t the ten year rule. Some suggest it may only apply to N Ireland (Eg Irish Sea border). Others aren’t sure the national security argument holds. Or won’t be challenged. (Eg by the US). Doesn’t seem clean cut. For national security in military terms we'll still be in Nato and we'll still have policing over international borders as part of Interpol after Brexit. The UK is also one of the main players in the 5 eyes intelligence group. MI5 and MI6 are regarded as one of the best intelligence services in the world along with the American CIA. We may be losing membership of Europol when we leave the EU but Europol is a poor man's Interpol in my opinion, and it's the EU who is losing MI5 and MI6 not the UK. Who was it who raided Sepp Blater's offices in Europe over the FIFA corruption scandal? It wasn't any European police force it was the American FBI, so I do find this security argument to be a bit of a red herring. " You miss understand my point. What are the grounds for the waiver. (which is not the same as the ten year rule). You need a waiver for MFN not to kick in. I’d imagine it’s national security. That’s just my guess. | |||
"A stronger leader would have called the bluff of the DUP and put it to the people of the North. If they are happy to stay in commercial alignment with the Republic, it should not be a problem for people on the mainland.I take it you dont know many loyalists.You do make me laugh never in a million years would they vote for anything that would take them further from the uk and nearer the republic.Thats the quickest way to go back to the old days." In just over 2 years time the unionist/loyalist vote will not matter much. As by then there will be a Nationalist/Republican majority in the 6 counties. What happens to the loyalists then ? The whole issue of the border rests on this fact. The state of Northern Ireland will be a Catholic/Nationalist majority community for the 1st time since its inception . Interesting times ahead. | |||
"A stronger leader would have called the bluff of the DUP and put it to the people of the North. If they are happy to stay in commercial alignment with the Republic, it should not be a problem for people on the mainland.I take it you dont know many loyalists.You do make me laugh never in a million years would they vote for anything that would take them further from the uk and nearer the republic.Thats the quickest way to go back to the old days. In just over 2 years time the unionist/loyalist vote will not matter much. As by then there will be a Nationalist/Republican majority in the 6 counties. What happens to the loyalists then ? The whole issue of the border rests on this fact. The state of Northern Ireland will be a Catholic/Nationalist majority community for the 1st time since its inception . Interesting times ahead." This.. Simple demographics and then just when will the republicans use that fact in a democratic mandate.. | |||
"A stronger leader would have called the bluff of the DUP and put it to the people of the North. If they are happy to stay in commercial alignment with the Republic, it should not be a problem for people on the mainland.I take it you dont know many loyalists.You do make me laugh never in a million years would they vote for anything that would take them further from the uk and nearer the republic.Thats the quickest way to go back to the old days." I know quite a few, including some I wish I had not met. The majority voted to remain in the EU. Dublin is doing its best to get close to that with the conditions of the backstop. | |||
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" In case you hadn't noticed Republic of Ireland is not connected to mainland Europe. There is this big body of water called the sea getting in the way, so they can't simply stroll over there from the mainland. To get to Republic of Ireland EU citizens have to cross the sea by boat, ferry or plane. Basic ID/passport checks are done before boarding boats, ferries or planes as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. " sooo.... the million dollar question that no leaver ever wants to answer.. even though the republic of ireland is not in schengen, EU nation populations can travel to the ROI with a passport!.... so how do you stop a person who can legally travel to the ROI, then travel on a bus/train north.... to then catch an internal flight/ferry across to the mainland UK? still waiting....... controlling our borders... except the one land border we have with the EU... ooohj, lets just stick a flashing arrow at it!!! | |||
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"I keep hearing the phrase " nobody wants a hard border in Ireland " ,,,, and this is said by both leavers and remainers ,,,, but , as The Republic is in the E.U. and a foreign country and leavers want to "take control of our borders" , how is it possible to take controll of our borders without having a border between The U.K. and The E.U. ( please note , this is not a trick question . I genuinely do not know ,, surely if we leave we must have a hard border ) " Yes, except that your government is a signatory to the Belfast Agreement which requires an invisible border. | |||
"I keep hearing the phrase " nobody wants a hard border in Ireland " ,,,, and this is said by both leavers and remainers ,,,, but , as The Republic is in the E.U. and a foreign country and leavers want to "take control of our borders" , how is it possible to take controll of our borders without having a border between The U.K. and The E.U. ( please note , this is not a trick question . I genuinely do not know ,, surely if we leave we must have a hard border ) " There is no strict need for a hard border. However you can’t have one rule for one countries imports (tariffs checks etc) than others unless there is an FTA in place. So we could have a soft border at our end. But it would need to be as soft in Dover etc, and as soft for stuff coming from China as Ireland. I imagine the eu don’t want to soften all their borders sonsee a hard border as the only possibility. | |||
"I keep hearing the phrase " nobody wants a hard border in Ireland " ,,,, and this is said by both leavers and remainers ,,,, but , as The Republic is in the E.U. and a foreign country and leavers want to "take control of our borders" , how is it possible to take controll of our borders without having a border between The U.K. and The E.U. ( please note , this is not a trick question . I genuinely do not know ,, surely if we leave we must have a hard border ) Yes, except that your government is a signatory to the Belfast Agreement which requires an invisible border. " . Thankyou , that is what I thought ,, so the trouble I am having is ,,, why were/are we being told by members of our Conservative government that we can controll our borders , when we need an invisible border on the Island of Ireland ( our only land border with the EU) ,,, were/are they (a) lying , (b)showing their lack of knowledge of the situation or (c) just grossly incompetent ? | |||
"A hard border and a no deal brexit would create an opportunity for a referendum on Irish reunification .I would of thought this is a positive for sinn fein in the long run ." referendum for everyone in Ireland, it's a pity Leo does not stand up and make history by wanting Irish reunification and for everyone on the Ireland of Ireland British will still be British but in the long term we will all be better off together | |||
"Switzerland is not in the EU and doesn't have hard borders with neighbouring EU countries. It doesn't have to be. Isn’t Switzerland in EFTA or the EEA, though? Switzerland is an EFTA state but not party to the EEA Agreement. Which explains why it has no need for hard borders - it is aligned with the single market of its neighbours. It has hard borders, see my post further up. " It has a border that is harder than the border between two EU countries but it's not as hard as the border between Finland and Russia, or Poland and Ukrainian. If the UK leaves the EU's customs union then a border on the island of Ireland will be at least as hard as the border around Switzerland. If we leave the single market as well than it will require a much harder border similar to the ones between Finland and Russia, or Poland and Ukrainian. | |||
"I keep hearing the phrase " nobody wants a hard border in Ireland " ,,,, and this is said by both leavers and remainers ,,,, but , as The Republic is in the E.U. and a foreign country and leavers want to "take control of our borders" , how is it possible to take controll of our borders without having a border between The U.K. and The E.U. ( please note , this is not a trick question . I genuinely do not know ,, surely if we leave we must have a hard border ) Yes, except that your government is a signatory to the Belfast Agreement which requires an invisible border. . Thankyou , that is what I thought ,, so the trouble I am having is ,,, why were/are we being told by members of our Conservative government that we can controll our borders , when we need an invisible border on the Island of Ireland ( our only land border with the EU) ,,, were/are they (a) lying , (b)showing their lack of knowledge of the situation or (c) just grossly incompetent ? " The answer is going to vary from person to person and it could be just one to all three and be right.... the simple option would be the soft brexit customs union, but the Tory taliban flip anytime its mentioned | |||
"A hard border and a no deal brexit would create an opportunity for a referendum on Irish reunification .I would of thought this is a positive for sinn fein in the long run .referendum for everyone in Ireland, it's a pity Leo does not stand up and make history by wanting Irish reunification and for everyone on the Ireland of Ireland British will still be British but in the long term we will all be better off together " We would be much better off if the tories didn't lie, and all the brainwashed tabloid /daily mail readers hadn't of been so easy led by the lies. | |||
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"I keep hearing the phrase " nobody wants a hard border in Ireland " ,,,, and this is said by both leavers and remainers ,,,, but , as The Republic is in the E.U. and a foreign country and leavers want to "take control of our borders" , how is it possible to take controll of our borders without having a border between The U.K. and The E.U. ( please note , this is not a trick question . I genuinely do not know ,, surely if we leave we must have a hard border ) Yes, except that your government is a signatory to the Belfast Agreement which requires an invisible border. . Thankyou , that is what I thought ,, so the trouble I am having is ,,, why were/are we being told by members of our Conservative government that we can controll our borders , when we need an invisible border on the Island of Ireland ( our only land border with the EU) ,,, were/are they (a) lying , (b)showing their lack of knowledge of the situation or (c) just grossly incompetent ? " d ). They have known that this would be about the border from the very Start , remember May stating " its full name is the conservative party of Great Britain & Northern Ireland" the day she bacame prime minister. The trouble with the Belfast agreement is , that it becomes Null & Void once 1 of the 2 countries is no longer a member of the E.U. ( written into the original agreement) , so in theory they do not want to be held responsible for the break up of the U.K & all it would entail ( as a political party) . In theory your (a) choice is correct , but with far deeper connotations to politics in this country. | |||
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"I read online and a reporter went to visit Middletown it's we're the boarders are between and speaking to locals there concern is the fact most of the shops get their trade from the South of Ireland. Among other things. Maybe treasa should go visit " Why when their was a wall between Germany , there was uproar over it , and in Ireland it's ok to divide a country into two and every country turns a blind eye ????  | |||
"So let me see if I understand this correctly. We are leaving the world's second largest free trade area in order to show the world how much we believe in free trade. Ok. "Or, to put it another way... The EU is losing the 5th largest economy in the world, 15% of its trading power, its rate of unemployment will increase by 1%, its exports will reduce by 17%. | |||
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" it's a pity Leo does not stand up and make history by wanting Irish reunification and for everyone on the Ireland of Ireland British will still be British but in the long term we will all be better off together " I imagine the thought of the DUP sitting in the Dáil is enough to give some people pause for thought. | |||
" Or, to put it another way... The EU is losing the 5th largest economy in the world, 15% of its trading power, its rate of unemployment will increase by 1%, its exports will reduce by 17%." I haven't checked your first two stats, but I do know the UK is the destination for 8 per cent of exports from the EU27. Whereas the EU27 is the destination for 44% or so of UK exports. Do your figures take into account the Japan/EU trade deal that comes into force today? That creates the largest free trade zone in the world. Tarriffs on cars manufactured in Japan will fall from 10 % today to 0 % by year 8, for example. That cannot be good news for the Japanese car plants in the UK that will be going in the opposite direction as regards tariffs if there is no agreement. | |||
"So let me see if I understand this correctly. We are leaving the world's second largest free trade area in order to show the world how much we believe in free trade. Ok.
Or, to put it another way...
The EU is losing the 5th largest economy in the world, 15% of its trading power, its rate of unemployment will increase by 1%, its exports will reduce by 17%."I've seen French, Belgian, Dutch and Danish fishermen showing concern. Dutch and Spanish fruit and vegetable producers getting worried. French villages worried about the move away and the slow down of UK ex-pats spending money in their regions. Its not all one way. A "No Deal" will have serious implications all over Europe. | |||
"So let me see if I understand this correctly. We are leaving the world's second largest free trade area in order to show the world how much we believe in free trade. Ok.
Or, to put it another way...
The EU is losing the 5th largest economy in the world, 15% of its trading power, its rate of unemployment will increase by 1%, its exports will reduce by 17%.
I've seen French, Belgian, Dutch and Danish fishermen showing concern.
Dutch and Spanish fruit and vegetable producers getting worried.
French villages worried about the move away and the slow down of UK ex-pats spending money in their regions.
Its not all one way. A "No Deal" will have serious implications all over Europe."I don’t think anyone is denying this. The IMF has a no deal as being one of its key risks and its modelling shows an impact everywhere. It’s just we beat the lions share. | |||
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"Another thing to keep in mind is the length of time it takes to negotiate a free trade agreement - 8 years in the case of the EU and Japan. " it's a good job then that the EU rules on negotiating trade deals allow 10 years | |||
"Another thing to keep in mind is the length of time it takes to negotiate a free trade agreement - 8 years in the case of the EU and Japan. it's a good job then that the EU rules on negotiating trade deals allow 10 years" I’m not aware of this rule. Do you have any more details ? | |||
" The trouble with the Belfast agreement is , that it becomes Null & Void once 1 of the 2 countries is no longer a member of the E.U. " I don't know how you concluded that one. Sure the GFA is under threat with Brexit but it doesn't automatically become null & void. | |||
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"Does a smaller economy matter? Brazil has a great economy, but I wouldn't want to live there. Why have so many on the supposed left swallowed trickle down economics so completely that they are panicking about a slightly poorer economy?" What's the benefit of the economy contracting? Does it help the poorest Does it help the environment? | |||
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"Economic contraction = lower public revenues = poorer public services = higher unemployment = . . . I'm really looking forward to hearing the quitters tell us how grateful we should all be for their decision to make everyone poorer. " Well it doesn't, unless you buy into trickle down economics. Do you think Brazil has good public services/quality of life? How about America? | |||
"Economic contraction = lower public revenues = poorer public services = higher unemployment = . . . I'm really looking forward to hearing the quitters tell us how grateful we should all be for their decision to make everyone poorer. Well it doesn't, unless you buy into trickle down economics. Do you think Brazil has good public services/quality of life? How about America?" You’re right GDP misses the size of the country. GDP per capita is a better measure. We’re somthing like 8x better than Brazil. But for a given country, with stable population size, it’s not the worst measure of your looking at a differences. | |||
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"Economic contraction = lower public revenues = poorer public services = higher unemployment = . . . I'm really looking forward to hearing the quitters tell us how grateful we should all be for their decision to make everyone poorer. Well it doesn't, unless you buy into trickle down economics. Do you think Brazil has good public services/quality of life? How about America? You’re right GDP misses the size of the country. GDP per capita is a better measure. We’re somthing like 8x better than Brazil. But for a given country, with stable population size, it’s not the worst measure of your looking at a differences. " It's not great - it completely ignores social/legal/taxation factors. Currently, as our economy grows, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is, however a very convenient narrative for a population to buy into, which leads to this utter panic that we have on the centre left and the right of displeasing corporations even slightly for fear of societal reprisals. | |||
"You should really ask your question of someone who is interested in the economic ups and downs of Brazil. " It was an example, to illustrate my point. Your notion that a bigger economy means more for everyone is utterly flawed. | |||
"You should really ask your question of someone who is interested in the economic ups and downs of Brazil. " Exactly idgaf about Brazil or Mickey Mouse land I care about this little island. How does a contracting economy benefit its citizens.? | |||
"You should really ask your question of someone who is interested in the economic ups and downs of Brazil. Exactly idgaf about Brazil or Mickey Mouse land I care about this little island. How does a contracting economy benefit its citizens.?" How does an expanding economy benefit them? It doesn't, neither do (within reason) without societal measures to redistribute wealth. | |||
"Economic contraction = lower public revenues = poorer public services = higher unemployment = . . . I'm really looking forward to hearing the quitters tell us how grateful we should all be for their decision to make everyone poorer. Well it doesn't, unless you buy into trickle down economics. Do you think Brazil has good public services/quality of life? How about America? You’re right GDP misses the size of the country. GDP per capita is a better measure. We’re somthing like 8x better than Brazil. But for a given country, with stable population size, it’s not the worst measure of your looking at a differences. It's not great - it completely ignores social/legal/taxation factors. Currently, as our economy grows, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is, however a very convenient narrative for a population to buy into, which leads to this utter panic that we have on the centre left and the right of displeasing corporations even slightly for fear of societal reprisals. " I didn’t say it was great. It is a blunt tool I agree. It ignores how much of the selling price goes towards wages and how much goes towards profit. It ignores the cost of living. It ignores money can’t buy you live/happiness. A fully rounded discussion should look at a wider set of metrics. Maybe including non monetary ones. However people struggle to understand just one metric in isolation. This forum is full of people misunderstanding statistics. But they need to have something they can hang their beliefs on. Stalemate. | |||
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"I'm guessing some think only a socialist government will find benefit in a shrinking economy through higher taxation and the illusion of wealth redistribution. That's trickle down economics from the state I suppose. " Why is it an illusion, Bob? | |||
"I'm guessing some think only a socialist government will find benefit in a shrinking economy through higher taxation and the illusion of wealth redistribution. That's trickle down economics from the state I suppose. Why is it an illusion, Bob? " The government left or right are terrible at handling money. Increased taxation doesn't benefit the poor or anyone.Instead of wealth redistribution you need abolish taxation for the poorest and reduce taxes on the largest businesses. The best economies I've lived in have a very high tax threshold benefiting the bottom and more importantly business start ups.If you have low taxation people are more inclined to pay up. | |||
" It is, however a very convenient narrative for a population to buy into, which leads to this utter panic that we have on the centre left and the right of displeasing corporations even slightly for fear of societal reprisals. " The reality is that British society does not veer far from the centre - a swing to the left a bit when in need of social progress, a swing to the right a bit when in need of economic stability - but never, certainly in my lifetime, to the extremes of either. | |||
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" It is, however a very convenient narrative for a population to buy into, which leads to this utter panic that we have on the centre left and the right of displeasing corporations even slightly for fear of societal reprisals. The reality is that British society does not veer far from the centre - a swing to the left a bit when in need of social progress, a swing to the right a bit when in need of economic stability - but never, certainly in my lifetime, to the extremes of either. " So we need a stronger left. When even the supposed left is centre right, we are screwed. Most of the societal benefits we treasure were won by the left post ww2. | |||
" It is, however a very convenient narrative for a population to buy into, which leads to this utter panic that we have on the centre left and the right of displeasing corporations even slightly for fear of societal reprisals. The reality is that British society does not veer far from the centre - a swing to the left a bit when in need of social progress, a swing to the right a bit when in need of economic stability - but never, certainly in my lifetime, to the extremes of either. " So we need a stronger left. When even the supposed left is centre right, we are screwed. Most of the societal benefits we treasure were won by the left post ww2. | |||
"The tools for redistribution of wealth already exist - and have nothing to do with the EU. Austerity, unfortunately, is a tool for redistributing wealth from those in greatest need to those in least need. That is the Conservative Party mindset. It is domestic policy. " Its also EU policy. So, we need to be both out of the EU and rid of the Tories. | |||
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"Brexit will only benefit the wealthy.It won't bring about societal change.If that's what brexiters voted for they were sold a lemon.A brexit lemon. Other forces are forcing through change in society,one of them being disruptive technologies.The ball is the court of the mega technology corporations not the political parties." It will enable societal change to happen. Renationalisation cannot happen in the EU | |||
"The EU has no control over the tax-and-spend policy of the UK. If the UK Government wants to increase spending on those in greatest need through higher taxation of those with the most, the only permission it needs is that of the UK Parliament. If the UK Government wants to guarantee every citizen a basic minimum income, the only permission it needs is that of the UK Parliament. If the UK Government wants to treble spending on health and social care, the only permission it needs is that of the UK Parliament. That is the con of Brexit. I heard an interview yesterday with people on the streets of Wolverhampton. One of them said he is on disability benefit and had voted to leave because he believed it would mean an increase in his benefit as a result of savings. The level of misunderstanding out there about who is responsible for what is staggering. Parliament could vote tomorrow to treble disability benefit - it has sod all to do with the EU. But we are living with the consequences of that lie painted on the side of a bus - that it is the EU depriving our public services of cash. It's not. It's the politicians we send to Westminster who deprive our services. " Tell that to the Greeks. | |||
" It will enable societal change to happen. Renationalisation cannot happen in the EU" Another myth. Who do you think the largest supplier of electricity in the UK is? A company owned by the Government of France. Who do you think is the largest operator in the North Sea? A company owned by the Government of France. Who do you think is building a new power station in Sussex? A company owned by the Government of China. Who do you think runs a lot of our train companies? Companies owned by the governments of Germany and the Netherlands. It is domestic ideology that has destroyed publicly-owned services in the UK. We are happy for nationalised industry to run our services - so long as it is foreign and not British. It has nothing to do with the EU. | |||
"Brexit will only benefit the wealthy.It won't bring about societal change.If that's what brexiters voted for they were sold a lemon.A brexit lemon. Other forces are forcing through change in society,one of them being disruptive technologies.The ball is the court of the mega technology corporations not the political parties. It will enable societal change to happen. Renationalisation cannot happen in the EU" I would prefer a nation of entrepreneurs than a nation of state funded employees.Most likely because after a lifetime of being self employed entitled to no sick pay or holiday pay Ive seen how the public sector employees abuse their benefits .Especially sick pay. More importantly being profitable isn't the bottom line in state funded industry. | |||
"Brexit will only benefit the wealthy.It won't bring about societal change.If that's what brexiters voted for they were sold a lemon.A brexit lemon. Other forces are forcing through change in society,one of them being disruptive technologies.The ball is the court of the mega technology corporations not the political parties. It will enable societal change to happen. Renationalisation cannot happen in the EU I would prefer a nation of entrepreneurs than a nation of state funded employees.Most likely because after a lifetime of being self employed entitled to no sick pay or holiday pay Ive seen how the public sector employees abuse their benefits .Especially sick pay. More importantly being profitable isn't the bottom line in state funded industry." Is private infrastructure profitable? When it does make profit, where does that go? You sound quite bitter, Bob. | |||
"Brexit will only benefit the wealthy.It won't bring about societal change.If that's what brexiters voted for they were sold a lemon.A brexit lemon. Other forces are forcing through change in society,one of them being disruptive technologies.The ball is the court of the mega technology corporations not the political parties. It will enable societal change to happen. Renationalisation cannot happen in the EU I would prefer a nation of entrepreneurs than a nation of state funded employees.Most likely because after a lifetime of being self employed entitled to no sick pay or holiday pay Ive seen how the public sector employees abuse their benefits .Especially sick pay. More importantly being profitable isn't the bottom line in state funded industry. Is private infrastructure profitable? When it does make profit, where does that go? You sound quite bitter, Bob." Not bitter. I know I make more being self employed than being employed like them. I have friends and family that work for local government who can take months off for stress..fully paid.They also always overspend their departments budgets. The easiest thing in the world is to spend someone else's money.Which they do daily without a care for the consequences because it doesn't effect their job. If I spend more than I make I lose my house and business and everything. I see them like a teenage kid with a government credit card. | |||
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"Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving. Demonic Raab, the one-time Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, appears before the Northern Ireland select committee. No, he admits, he has not read the Belfast Agreement. "Unbelievable. He's legally trained too.  | |||
"Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving. Demonic Raab, the one-time Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, appears before the Northern Ireland select committee. No, he admits, he has not read the Belfast Agreement. "Wonder when someone will blame anyone but his own party for that..
Wonder if he thought his brief was just to sound arrogant and talk down to the EU? | |||
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united we stand divided we fall, can’t see a border getting in the way of fab tbh | |||
