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Country before party....
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
With all the talk of TM finally working cross party, do you think she will actually do so if it means getting a deal done?
For example is the consensus is that she could get a deal done, but it would mean some sort of customs union , do you think Teresa would go against the DUP, or the hardline ERG group in her own party? |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
She's caught in the middle and make no mistake.
Going cross party might seem good on the outside, but inside, the DUP won't make any concessions that move them.closer to Dinner Fein and the ERG won't go for any softer Brexit. |
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
she will lsten to all party then do what she wants to anyway.the brexit negotiators she put in were all for show.she had her plan and its her plan and nothing else.she dosent listen to her own party so cant see her listening to anyone else |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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She's proven herself to be arrogant uncompromising and partisan.Shell have to be dragged kicking and screaming from No 10.
It's her choice to be responsible for the destruction of the the economy and union.
Brexit has and always will be the responsibility of the conservatives...They'll burn the house down before compromising..So be it..  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
Dont think anything will get done unless labour come to the table.The people shes talking to SNP Liberals cymru are all after a second referendum that seems to me their red line so still not thinking of the country only their own agenda.Labour wont talk until no deal is off the table which to be honest seems like an excuse not to talk to me.Why would you take the only leaverage we have with the EU off the table? Its a total fuck up.If anything they should take a second referendum off the table then everyone knows we are leaving that way they will come to some agreement.While there is a faction still trying to stop us leaving it will never get sorted.Feel free to disagree but thats my opinion.  |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
The ONLY way forward is to take Party politics out of the Brexit discussions.
Voters from all political parties voted for Brexit and so a cross-Party coalition solely focused on Brexit should be created to deal with Brexit.
The PM and other Party Leaders get on with the day to day business of running the country. |
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"Dont think anything will get done unless labour come to the table.The people shes talking to SNP Liberals cymru are all after a second referendum that seems to me their red line so still not thinking of the country only their own agenda.Labour wont talk until no deal is off the table which to be honest seems like an excuse not to talk to me.Why would you take the only leaverage we have with the EU off the table? Its a total fuck up.If anything they should take a second referendum off the table then everyone knows we are leaving that way they will come to some agreement.While there is a faction still trying to stop us leaving it will never get sorted.Feel free to disagree but thats my opinion. "
They are thinking about the the country as they know Breixit will fuck. And they all agree that No deal should be taken off as well.
As for the EU they have told the UK were they Stand and fully agree with them on that one the ball is in the UK court. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Dont think anything will get done unless labour come to the table.The people shes talking to SNP Liberals cymru are all after a second referendum that seems to me their red line so still not thinking of the country only their own agenda.Labour wont talk until no deal is off the table which to be honest seems like an excuse not to talk to me.Why would you take the only leaverage we have with the EU off the table? Its a total fuck up.If anything they should take a second referendum off the table then everyone knows we are leaving that way they will come to some agreement.While there is a faction still trying to stop us leaving it will never get sorted.Feel free to disagree but thats my opinion.
They are thinking about the the country as they know Breixit will fuck. And they all agree that No deal should be taken off as well.
As for the EU they have told the UK were they Stand and fully agree with them on that one the ball is in the UK court. "
That may well be their opinion but they have been charged by the people with getting us out and until they understand that is what they are there for we will have this stalemate. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
She has had Two years to hold cross party consultations, she is so arrogant she thought she would enjoy the kudos of handling it herself.
Now she and her party are slagging off labour for not scurrying off to No.10 to discuss it with her....Labour are absolutely correct to take the position that they have. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
"
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to."
In fairness, you’re not his target audience. He’s never likely to attract votes from the far right. So he has to pick his battles.
I’m not especially a Corbyn fan, but I’ve never seen a smear campaign against a politician like he’s had to endure. At least in this country anyway. |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to."
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to.
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess."
So with ten weeks to go you think putting conditions on talks before you have walked into the room is good for the country? Just trying to understand. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Exiting without an agreement is pressing the self-destruct button.
Every reasonable assessment concludes this.
Those who disagree tend to be:
a) ideologues clinging to the discredited mantra of the Leave campaign
b) people living in a parallel universe who believe this is a negotiation of equals.
The argument that it needs to be kept on the table to force concessions from the EU is mad.
Viewed from their side, Britain is pointing a gun at its own foot and threatening to pull the trigger unless the EU27 dismantles the rules of the single market.
Corbyn is right to expect an end to such grandiose delusions. Unfortunately, May cannot accede to this because the deluded reside mostly in her party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to.
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess."
I agree to try and deflect all this on to corbyn is really pathetic.The Tories need labour now.??
She just wants to off load responsibility to labour and corbyn .Which is ridiculous .Offer an olive branch of no brexit ,if you want to share responsibility.Otherwise choose the extremists in her party and go for no deal and off the cliff and into infamy and crash and burn the economy..
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to.
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess.So with ten weeks to go you think putting conditions on talks before you have walked into the room is good for the country? Just trying to understand."
Yes I do....Labour have made no secret of their stance on a no deal Brexit for some time, but the government, Tory voters, and people like yourself have dismissed Corbyn from the discussion as you all believe that he's irrelevant....so he's explained why Labour won't enter into cross party discussions at what is way beyond the eleventh hour, and he's right to do so. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to.
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess.
I agree to try and deflect all this on to corbyn is really pathetic.The Tories need labour now.??
She just wants to off load responsibility to labour and corbyn .Which is ridiculous .Offer an olive branch of no brexit ,if you want to share responsibility.Otherwise choose the extremists in her party and go for no deal and off the cliff and into infamy and crash and burn the economy..
"
You see this is the problem "an olive branch of no brexit" the country voted to leave and leave we must.As long as mps who dont want to leave are in the equation nothing is going to get done.All the remain mps who wont agree to anything but remain should abstain get out the way and let the democratic process take its course. |
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Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Would you like me to dig out the quotes by leading Brexiteers who promised voters it was perfectly possible to stay in the single AND leave the EU?
You seem to be saying the complete opposite now. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
"
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to.
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess.
I agree to try and deflect all this on to corbyn is really pathetic.The Tories need labour now.??
She just wants to off load responsibility to labour and corbyn .Which is ridiculous .Offer an olive branch of no brexit ,if you want to share responsibility.Otherwise choose the extremists in her party and go for no deal and off the cliff and into infamy and crash and burn the economy..
You see this is the problem "an olive branch of no brexit" the country voted to leave and leave we must.As long as mps who dont want to leave are in the equation nothing is going to get done.All the remain mps who wont agree to anything but remain should abstain get out the way and let the democratic process take its course."
So only people who meet certain criteria can vote. Doesn’t sound very democratic to me.
Really though. Aside from you, the character Centaur, and Rees Mogg. Does anyone actually want a no deal Brexit?
Unless it’s going to make you millions (Rees Mogg), or you don’t understand much about how things work. Then there is literally no up side to a no deal hard Brexit.
May has been using it as a threat to make MPs vote for her deal. It’s a bullshit tactic. And it’s too important an issue for her to play games with.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?"
It isn’t a very good bargaining chip. Sure the EU don’t want a no deal Brexit. But it will impact us much worse than them, so it’s not worth them bending over backwards for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No. From the very start, every action, every decision has been taken in the interests of the Conservative Party.
From Cameron trying to stop Tory voters defecting to UKIP, through to May demanding a majority of 80 because she could not control her own MPs, and again yesterday outside No 10, sensing an opportunity to smear Corbyn.
Praise in public, criticise in private if you want unity.
Unity?
What chance national unity when she has shown herself to be utterly useless at party unity?
smear corbyn? think he fucked his self there seems alot of his own party think so to.
The Tories, and their supporters, need to worry about getting their own house in order....turning on Labour in TV interviews is classic deflection politics, it's a Tory referendum, a Tory Brexit, and only the Tories are to blame for this mess.So with ten weeks to go you think putting conditions on talks before you have walked into the room is good for the country? Just trying to understand.
Yes I do....Labour have made no secret of their stance on a no deal Brexit for some time, but the government, Tory voters, and people like yourself have dismissed Corbyn from the discussion as you all believe that he's irrelevant....so he's explained why Labour won't enter into cross party discussions at what is way beyond the eleventh hour, and he's right to do so."
I can imagine Corbyn, like the ERG and others, have been excluded as they don’t because they dont look to bring workable solutions to the table. You can’t take no deal off the table until you have something realistic to replace it with. And by realistic it has to be something the Eu may agree to.
As it stands, while everyone talks headline options of , “Canada like”, “Norway plus” and “managed”’without having any specifics about what the “like” really means, what the plus really means, and which areas are to be managed and on what terms, then I understand why May doesn’t have time for them. She’s trying to find out why her rocket prototype didn’t fly. They’re still drawing pictures of flying saucers with crayons. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?
It isn’t a very good bargaining chip. Sure the EU don’t want a no deal Brexit. But it will impact us much worse than them, so it’s not worth them bending over backwards for. "
I dont agree it will impact them massively as well.But glad you do agree it is a bargaining chip so why would anyone in their right mind take it off the table.Juswt looking for one opionion that i can get my head round.If you have a seatbelt in your car its pretty reckless not to wear it even though you dont want to crash. |
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"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?"
Threatening to shoot yourself as others have rightly said is not the best bargaining position..
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?
Threatening to shoot yourself as others have rightly said is not the best bargaining position..
"
So no then you cant give me a good reason just smart remarks.This seems to be mirroring parliament. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
It's not just in Mrs May's power to take off the "no deal" option. The EU has its say as well. They could say enough is enough and you are out on March 29th.
Many of the Labour back benches wouldn't be happy if JC goes to number 10 to give his input. Many on the Opposition benches, as well as the Labour Party membership, are holding out for a second referendum. Anything that JC does to negate this could well be seen as helping the enemy.
What Mrs May has to say on Monday will be very interesting. By then, she will have consulted many parties, talked to EU leaders, and done the rounds of the TV studios.
I notice that 170 business leaders have a letter in the Times today, urging for clarity, unity and urgency.
Maybe by next week, The Speaker will hand the whole thing to Parliament. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Bargaining chip?
We’ll wreck our economy unless you tear up the rules of the single market?
Where are all the positive cards Gove told us we are holding?
Or was that another lie to add to the list?
When will the penny drop that you’ve been sold the biggest pig in a poke in modern history? |
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"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?
Threatening to shoot yourself as others have rightly said is not the best bargaining position..
So no then you cant give me a good reason just smart remarks.This seems to be mirroring parliament. "
Nothing smart at all about it, they know we don't want it as it will whilst hurting them hurt us more..
I used a simple analogy as frankly you seem to be having trouble understanding the bleeding obvious..
It seems to be that only the naive, the protected or the no idea and don't care that are happy to crash out on a no deal..
Personally speaking it will not affect us as we are fortunate enough to weather what happens but that is not the point.. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Bargaining chip?
We’ll wreck our economy unless you tear up the rules of the single market?
Where are all the positive cards Gove told us we are holding?
Or was that another lie to add to the list?
When will the penny drop that you’ve been sold the biggest pig in a poke in modern history?"
So are you telling me that the eu would be happy of a no deal brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?
It isn’t a very good bargaining chip. Sure the EU don’t want a no deal Brexit. But it will impact us much worse than them, so it’s not worth them bending over backwards for. I dont agree it will impact them massively as well.But glad you do agree it is a bargaining chip so why would anyone in their right mind take it off the table.Juswt looking for one opionion that i can get my head round.If you have a seatbelt in your car its pretty reckless not to wear it even though you dont want to crash. "
Because I don’t think it’s a very good bargaining chip. Is the short answer.
The EU have seen that we would be prepared to damage ourselves out of spite. So I am sure that they consider a hard Brexit a genuine possibility. It would mean losing out on valuable trade with the UK. That’s all part of it being a bargaining chip.
But in the bigger picture, this deal that May has arranged, was there a genuine expectation for this to be any better? The side with the weaker hand (and the EU knows our hand is weaker), is always going to come out on the bottom. So this weak bargaining chip isn’t really worth very much.
Not my opinion, but from Labours point of view, it’s not worth keeping it on the table if it hinders any progress.
Either that or it’s just a Labour ploy to shake up the Tories a bit and then say (wel I tried but they wouldn’t accept the terms). |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Using no deal as a threat to the EU is possibly not going to be within her remit as a decision, if Parliament takes over as is muted.
That she continues to think its an option rather than eat humble pie and fully accept she has through her arrogance, incompetence and refusal to engage previously and made a complete pigs ear of it is staggering in its ineptitude for a Pm..
To now blame corbyn for not jumping on board when she is still in the same my way only mindset is bollocks..
She has to move and if that means upsetting the Erg and the consequences for her party then most people will care not a jot..
This is what i am failing to understand why would anyone in their right mind want to take away the only bargaining chip we have in negotiations (the eu dont want a crash out ) of the table it just doesnt make sense to me nobody wants it apart from a few mps its ok for the eu to put a backstop in that nobody wants why cant we? can anyone please explain why you wouldnt want that as security?
It isn’t a very good bargaining chip. Sure the EU don’t want a no deal Brexit. But it will impact us much worse than them, so it’s not worth them bending over backwards for. I dont agree it will impact them massively as well.But glad you do agree it is a bargaining chip so why would anyone in their right mind take it off the table.Juswt looking for one opionion that i can get my head round.If you have a seatbelt in your car its pretty reckless not to wear it even though you dont want to crash.
Because I don’t think it’s a very good bargaining chip. Is the short answer.
The EU have seen that we would be prepared to damage ourselves out of spite. So I am sure that they consider a hard Brexit a genuine possibility. It would mean losing out on valuable trade with the UK. That’s all part of it being a bargaining chip.
But in the bigger picture, this deal that May has arranged, was there a genuine expectation for this to be any better? The side with the weaker hand (and the EU knows our hand is weaker), is always going to come out on the bottom. So this weak bargaining chip isn’t really worth very much.
Not my opinion, but from Labours point of view, it’s not worth keeping it on the table if it hinders any progress.
Either that or it’s just a Labour ploy to shake up the Tories a bit and then say (wel I tried but they wouldn’t accept the terms). "
i think your last point is valid. |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
There seems to be a misconception amongst, shall I say the Right Wingers on here, that Corbyn has the wherewithal or power to choose Labour's path on Brexit.
These right wingers clearly don't understand how the Labour party works, or are confusing Labour with the Tories....
JC doesn't get to make that decision, it would be voted upon within the party. So JC may personally oppose a second referendum for instance, but that wouldn't necessarily be the way that Labour would proceed with Brexit negotiations....far too many just assume that his personal take on the UK's future in the EU would dictate the position of any potential Labour government...and they are simply wrong. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
We are beginning to find out what is happening in the meetings...
Caroline Lucas of the greens said may was not taking no deal off the table, does not want to go down extending article 50, and doesn’t want a 2nd referendum
So basically may hasn’t budged a bit.... it is basically a branding exercise for show
So it looks like the party vs country question has been answered |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"There seems to be a misconception amongst, shall I say the Right Wingers on here, that Corbyn has the wherewithal or power to choose Labour's path on Brexit.
These right wingers clearly don't understand how the Labour party works, or are confusing Labour with the Tories....
JC doesn't get to make that decision, it would be voted upon within the party. So JC may personally oppose a second referendum for instance, but that wouldn't necessarily be the way that Labour would proceed with Brexit negotiations....far too many just assume that his personal take on the UK's future in the EU would dictate the position of any potential Labour government...and they are simply wrong."
I totally agree with you there he personally doesnt want a second referendum nor does his mate len mcclusky but because of momentum taking the party over he is just the mouthpiece for them and really cant make a decision without them. |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"There seems to be a misconception amongst, shall I say the Right Wingers on here, that Corbyn has the wherewithal or power to choose Labour's path on Brexit.
These right wingers clearly don't understand how the Labour party works, or are confusing Labour with the Tories....
JC doesn't get to make that decision, it would be voted upon within the party. So JC may personally oppose a second referendum for instance, but that wouldn't necessarily be the way that Labour would proceed with Brexit negotiations....far too many just assume that his personal take on the UK's future in the EU would dictate the position of any potential Labour government...and they are simply wrong.I totally agree with you there he personally doesnt want a second referendum nor does his mate len mcclusky but because of momentum taking the party over he is just the mouthpiece for them and really cant make a decision without them."
You see classic Right Wing bollocks.... Momentum don't have the have half the influence on the party that you idiots believe....think for yourselves instead of allowing The Daily Mail to think on your behalf
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Bargaining chip?
We’ll wreck our economy unless you tear up the rules of the single market?
Where are all the positive cards Gove told us we are holding?
Or was that another lie to add to the list?
When will the penny drop that you’ve been sold the biggest pig in a poke in modern history?So are you telling me that the eu would be happy of a no deal brexit."
There is no happiness to be found anywhere in the EU about any aspect of Brexit.
The UK withdrawal weakens the trading bloc.
Their priority is to maintain the integrity of the single market while minimising the collateral damage from whatever course the UK pursues.
The biggest problem the EU has is that it does not know what the UK wants and cannot reasonably foresee if or how the UK will diverge from the single market.
It is that persistent lack of clarity, coupled with some idiotic statements by David Davies, that persuaded them of the need for legal guarantees to give Dublin assurance about the border arrangements. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"We are beginning to find out what is happening in the meetings...
Caroline Lucas of the greens said may was not taking no deal off the table, does not want to go down extending article 50, and doesn’t want a 2nd referendum
So basically may hasn’t budged a bit.... it is basically a branding exercise for show
So it looks like the party vs country question has been answered"
52 : 48 = We must do what the people voted for
432 : 202 = We must find a way to get my deal through
Pathetic |
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The only way a no deal scenario can be excluded is by having concensus on a deal.
The only way to have consensus is for people to talk regardless of any red lines.
No talk will mean no deal.
Forget what any political intetest group or party says...or postures....if individual MPs do not consider and talk, we will eventually crash out with no deal or effectively remain under the EU with no clout.
In my opinion, Labour are missing the boat again. They should be engaging with the PM and publicise where they are coming from to show that they can take a lead.
Unfortunately they are in a position where they appear to only oppose which doesn't show any credential for government. It seems to be a trait that comes from a leader who has only ever opposed whatever he is faced with rather than actually achieving anything other than words. Taking a lead and getting a result would give Labour the credentials that they need in the eyes of the electorate. In my opinion, his refusal to talk without preconditions....regardless of whether we support no deal or not.....is hiding rather than leading. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We are beginning to find out what is happening in the meetings...
Caroline Lucas of the greens said may was not taking no deal off the table, does not want to go down extending article 50, and doesn’t want a 2nd referendum
So basically may hasn’t budged a bit.... it is basically a branding exercise for show
So it looks like the party vs country question has been answered"
Tbf Id be the same.
Taking no deal off the table solves nothing without an alternative.
Extending article 50 kicks the can down the road with no indication of why 12 more months will being a better alternative.
A 2nd referendum does not show willing to find a better form of brexit.
These talks should be about saying “how can brexit be better than the deal I have”. And if they don’t have an answer they should be publicly saying Mays deal is the best we could have got. Its weakness is down to what we are asking her to do, not her.
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
The referendum never was about the future of the country, it was about the future of the Conservative Party.
Call it the ERG, call it whatever you want, but this group has been gaining momentum inside the Tories for Two decades, Cameron attempted to put them to the sword by calling a referendum, and like Theresa May did with the last general election called it wrong.
There is no appetite amongst the government for REAL cross party discussions on the matter, this latest stunt was called by the government to attempt to shift the blame to Labour....and once again only Right Wingers have fallen for the rhetoric, anyone else already knew Labour had publicalkybruled out a 'No Deal' scenario many months ago at its annual conference.
So fuck May, and fuck the inept Tories, she made this bed with dogshit sheets, let her and the ERG lie in it. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
I have allways said that brexit should be done by an all party committee but this morning Corbyn has made it clear he will not even talk as he is a left wing phashist and does not care what happens as long as he can find a way to destroy this country for his Marxist ideals |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"The only way a no deal scenario can be excluded is by having concensus on a deal.
The only way to have consensus is for people to talk regardless of any red lines.
No talk will mean no deal.
Forget what any political intetest group or party says...or postures....if individual MPs do not consider and talk, we will eventually crash out with no deal or effectively remain under the EU with no clout.
In my opinion, Labour are missing the boat again. They should be engaging with the PM and publicise where they are coming from to show that they can take a lead.
Unfortunately they are in a position where they appear to only oppose which doesn't show any credential for government. It seems to be a trait that comes from a leader who has only ever opposed whatever he is faced with rather than actually achieving anything other than words. Taking a lead and getting a result would give Labour the credentials that they need in the eyes of the electorate. In my opinion, his refusal to talk without preconditions....regardless of whether we support no deal or not.....is hiding rather than leading."
 Good post |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have allways said that brexit should be done by an all party committee but this morning Corbyn has made it clear he will not even talk as he is a left wing phashist and does not care what happens as long as he can find a way to destroy this country for his Marxist ideals"
Phashist? have you invested a new word for him?
Thought you enjoyed the community of the late 60s and 70s? How good society was!
Then voted for a woman who introduced monetarism and didn't believe in society. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I have allways said that brexit should be done by an all party committee but this morning Corbyn has made it clear he will not even talk as he is a left wing phashist and does not care what happens as long as he can find a way to destroy this country for his Marxist ideals
Phashist? have you invested a new word for him?
Thought you enjoyed the community of the late 60s and 70s? How good society was!
Then voted for a woman who introduced monetarism and didn't believe in society. "
Clearly you have a very closed mind and pick out bits that suit you so get an education first and learn to understand what is being said.
The greater evil was Scargill as is Corbyn /Mcdonald now also monetarism is good as it greats whealth within society but this is a different subject |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Labour's Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper have entered into talks with the Government.
No hiding from these two pragmatists."
Not quite... benn is the chairperson on the house select committee on exiting the European Union.. and Cooper is the chairperson of the home affairs committee
Outside of anyone on the labour front bench they are the most powerful and kinda have to go |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"I have allways said that brexit should be done by an all party committee but this morning Corbyn has made it clear he will not even talk as he is a left wing phashist and does not care what happens as long as he can find a way to destroy this country for his Marxist ideals"
Your posts get funnier by the day.... You should consider stand up |
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"Would you like me to dig out the quotes by leading Brexiteers who promised voters it was perfectly possible to stay in the single AND leave the EU?
You seem to be saying the complete opposite now."
Things move on and evolve (quote from Speaker John Bercow there)
The general election in 2017 happened after the referendum in 2016. The Conservative party manifesto in 2017 promised to leave the single market and the customs union, EVERY Conservative MP stood for election on that manifesto. |
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"We are beginning to find out what is happening in the meetings...
Caroline Lucas of the greens said may was not taking no deal off the table, does not want to go down extending article 50, and doesn’t want a 2nd referendum
So basically may hasn’t budged a bit.... it is basically a branding exercise for show
So it looks like the party vs country question has been answered"
Theresa May is trying to put both her party and the country first. She's putting the country first because the country voted Leave and she's trying to deliver on that. On party lines to agree to a customs union would break promises made in the 2017 Conservative party general election manifesto and would most likely split the Tory party in 2.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Would you like me to dig out the quotes by leading Brexiteers who promised voters it was perfectly possible to stay in the single AND leave the EU?
You seem to be saying the complete opposite now.
Things move on and evolve (quote from Speaker John Bercow there)
The general election in 2017 happened after the referendum in 2016. The Conservative party manifesto in 2017 promised to leave the single market and the customs union, EVERY Conservative MP stood for election on that manifesto. "
How would you say public opinion has evolved? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
If you want a glimpse of how this shambles is being viewed in the rest of the world, google the New York Times:
"The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class"
it is a brutal comparison of how Britain's elite treated Ireland and India, and how they are now getting dosed with their own medicine.
"Humiliations in neo-imperialist ventures abroad, followed by the rolling calamity of Brexit at home, have cruelly exposed the bluff of what Hannah Arendt called the “quixotic fools of imperialism.” As partition comes home, threatening bloodshed in Ireland and secession in Scotland, and an unimaginable chaos of no-deal Brexit looms, ordinary British people stand to suffer from the untreatable exit wounds once inflicted by Britain’s bumbling chumocrats on millions of Asians and Africans. More ugly historical ironies may yet waylay Britain on its treacherous road to Brexit. But it is safe to say that a long-cossetted British ruling class has finally come to the end of itself as it was."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you want a glimpse of how this shambles is being viewed in the rest of the world, google the New York Times:
"The Malign Incompetence of the British Ruling Class"
it is a brutal comparison of how Britain's elite treated Ireland and India, and how they are now getting dosed with their own medicine.
"Humiliations in neo-imperialist ventures abroad, followed by the rolling calamity of Brexit at home, have cruelly exposed the bluff of what Hannah Arendt called the “quixotic fools of imperialism.” As partition comes home, threatening bloodshed in Ireland and secession in Scotland, and an unimaginable chaos of no-deal Brexit looms, ordinary British people stand to suffer from the untreatable exit wounds once inflicted by Britain’s bumbling chumocrats on millions of Asians and Africans. More ugly historical ironies may yet waylay Britain on its treacherous road to Brexit. But it is safe to say that a long-cossetted British ruling class has finally come to the end of itself as it was."
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
You see this is the problem "an olive branch of no brexit" the country voted to leave and leave we must.As long as mps who dont want to leave are in the equation nothing is going to get done.All the remain mps who wont agree to anything but remain should abstain get out the way and let the democratic process take its course."
Would it be that democratic with 3 MP's |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
You see this is the problem "an olive branch of no brexit" the country voted to leave and leave we must.As long as mps who dont want to leave are in the equation nothing is going to get done.All the remain mps who wont agree to anything but remain should abstain get out the way and let the democratic process take its course.
Would it be that democratic with 3 MP's "
That many...  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
'Theresa May leaves diplomats in 'disbelief' after presenting EU leaders with unchanged Brexit demands'
The headline in today's Daily Telegraph, referring to calls made by Mrs May to her counterparts across Europe after Monday's defeat.
Can this farce get any more ridiculous?
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