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brexit vote
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"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."
When people voted to leave they had no idea what the deal would look like and if the government is allowed to blindly accept a sub standard deal from the EU you're happy with that are you? |
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"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."
Guess you'd buy a house without looking round it and only being told how great it might be. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."
If you were offered a vote and the only two options were 'tea or coffee'...........would you be happy when you discovered that whichever one you voted for was made with cats piss rather than water?
Because voting for something when you don't know the specifics is asking for trouble.
It's why at general elections parties have manifestos. You know what you're voting for. I don't recall seeing any specifics during the referendum.
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It was a blind vote.
And a ridiculous position to put the country in without first looking to see what sort of deal would be on offer.
It happened the reverse way it should have.
So now... We know the deal on offer and its shit.
So now we vote to see if we accept the shit offer.
Did anyone though... Anyone... Really believe we would get a decent one?
Really?
From Europe?
Running back to Norway as fast as legs will carry me.
Yall fucked it right up.
Sorry.
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"The idea they had was to leave . I belive in this country and that we will grow from strength to strength. "
Based on what? Economics? The lucrative trade deals we’ve been offered? The money thats going to pour into the NHS?
You cant set a strategic direction for a Nation purely on hope |
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Anyone who believes if the UK has another vote to stay or leave are deluded. Even if we did and this time it was stay, the EU more than likely wouldn't accept a change of mind, we're leaving so accept it, just with out a deal. |
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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago
bolton |
Let's be clear the eu don't want a hard . So do we just keep having votes until remain win . Sturgeon off again wants another vote and independence vote on Scotland it's about time democracy is accepted. |
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"Anyone who believes if the UK has another vote to stay or leave are deluded. Even if we did and this time it was stay, the EU more than likely wouldn't accept a change of mind, we're leaving so accept it, just with out a deal."
Wrong. Its been said by the EU we have the right not to enfore exit neither could they make us if we chose not to leave.
Enough of the inaccuracies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bring on the 2nd referendum."
What will this solve. People will likely vote again to flush this country down the shitter.
I don't buy the, we know what a clusterfuck it is now, bollocks. We knew the first time around and people either didn't care because we will get "sovereignty" or less brown people knocking around, or they just believed the bullshit spouted by Farage and the far right about some magic nonsensical trade deal with who-ever-the-fuck.
Just look at the leavers who post here. They still ignore all the information and believe that fairies will fix everything after we are out of the EU.
Westminster need to sort this shit out and do the right thing by halting this suicidal path into the abyss that the UK is on. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes.
When people voted to leave they had no idea what the deal would look like and if the government is allowed to blindly accept a sub standard deal from the EU you're happy with that are you?"
May has just done a really bad job and negotiating the deal,she should not be allowed to negotiate this,she should just do other things that a PM has to do.I believe that I should get the job,I know exactly how I would do it but I will never get the chance. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"We have been going to the eu bring a bottle party long enough. We bring the bottles along with three or four more and the rest bring along glasses to be filled."
Junkers brings a bucket we all know he likes a drink.  |
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"Anyone who believes if the UK has another vote to stay or leave are deluded. Even if we did and this time it was stay, the EU more than likely wouldn't accept a change of mind, we're leaving so accept it, just with out a deal."
Wrong , we can unilaterally withdraw a50 at any time up until we leave. |
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"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy. "
Only a third of those entitled to vote voted to leave. May lost an election on her version of brexit, she has no mandate to force a bad deal on those who want to stay. Democracy is fluid, hence why we have a general election every 5 years. By time we actually leave, with the transition it could be nearly 5 years since the referendum. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy.
Only a third of those entitled to vote voted to leave. May lost an election on her version of brexit, she has no mandate to force a bad deal on those who want to stay. Democracy is fluid, hence why we have a general election every 5 years. By time we actually leave, with the transition it could be nearly 5 years since the referendum."
The people who did not vote obviously were happy to go along with the majority otherwise they would have voted . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So I have read that politicians are voting no to the deal as they have vested interests abroad. Properties and money invested. Not all Cons either.
These people should be banned from voting as they have personal vested interests and are not following their regions voters wishes. Name and shame and dont vote them in again.
Out means out. May has tried to please both sides as the vote was so close. What a mess but they are only people.
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."
It can't be put back to the people. If politicians are a majority mix of lawyers, business exces, Dr's, Whitehall careerists, publicly educated professionals who have difficulty understanding the detail of the agreement (despite being able to discuss it with colleagues at will). How can Joe public vote with full knowledge of what is contained in a 585 page text and any supporting documents.
MP's should have had a free vote this evening. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes.
If you were offered a vote and the only two options were 'tea or coffee'...........would you be happy when you discovered that whichever one you voted for was made with cats piss rather than water?
Because voting for something when you don't know the specifics is asking for trouble.
It's why at general elections parties have manifestos. You know what you're voting for. I don't recall seeing any specifics during the referendum.
A"
No. But I would be pretty pissed off if I asked for coffee and the person I asked did everything they could to try to give me tea after I had made my decision and made it clear. |
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By *amantMan
over a year ago
Alnmouth |
"Anyone who believes if the UK has another vote to stay or leave are deluded. Even if we did and this time it was stay, the EU more than likely wouldn't accept a change of mind, we're leaving so accept it, just with out a deal."
This is factually incorrect. We can revoke article 50 and fall back on exactly the same conditions we currently enjoy - should we choose to do so.
However it is my belief that won't happen. The no-confidence vote will unfortunately fail, Corbyn will then have to push for something else (be it a second referendum or an extension of article 50) with the latter being more likely. I think either would pass given the risk of us falling into a no-deal scenario almost by default.
I think a second referendum or a general election is inevitable really. There isn't a majority for any version of brexit because it was always going to be divisive given how open to interpretation it was on the ballot paper in 2016. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"
Guess you'd buy a house without looking round it and only being told how great it might be. "
The point is 2 years down the line we still do not know what the trading relationship would be.
The deal voted on last night had nothing to do with the future trading relationship with the EU.
Talks on that will not start until 29 March |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy. "
No.
To avoid the tyranny of madness.
Nobody voted for the country to be poorer and less influential in the world. As I recall a Brexit rallying cry was... “There are no downsides to Brexit, only considerable upsides.” (And as usual, the rhetoric is just an empty shell).
The reality is that Charlarans and snake oil salesmen made out the EU and our fellow European citizens to be the enemy of the state whereas the truth is that ALL of our problems are our own. Successive shit Governments malevolently disregarding their responsibilities. Surely the gross incompetence of this latest shower of shit is clear enough as an example of just how crap our politicians have been - and it has been going on for decades.
What needs to happen is for A50 to be revoked and we all put as much energy into fixing U.K. politics as been spent blaming the EU for everything bad in the world.
The EU is a red herring and is being inappropriately used as a scapegoat. On the scale of things wrong with this country it does not even make the top ten. |
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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago
bolton |
So your happy to keep pouring money into the pot to keep building other country's infrastructure while we crumble. If you want to belong to the EU let's have a club we're we all pay into it. And while we're at it closing the jooly boys outing club of meps starting with Blair couple of new hospitals there. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy.
No.
To avoid the tyranny of madness.
Nobody voted for the country to be poorer and less influential in the world. As I recall a Brexit rallying cry was... “There are no downsides to Brexit, only considerable upsides.” (And as usual, the rhetoric is just an empty shell).
The reality is that Charlarans and snake oil salesmen made out the EU and our fellow European citizens to be the enemy of the state whereas the truth is that ALL of our problems are our own. Successive shit Governments malevolently disregarding their responsibilities. Surely the gross incompetence of this latest shower of shit is clear enough as an example of just how crap our politicians have been - and it has been going on for decades.
What needs to happen is for A50 to be revoked and we all put as much energy into fixing U.K. politics as been spent blaming the EU for everything bad in the world.
The EU is a red herring and is being inappropriately used as a scapegoat. On the scale of things wrong with this country it does not even make the top ten."
The number of fiscal studies reported pre referendum stating the economy would be worse off, including Mark Carney who was thought to be influencing voter decisions - whether in the short term these have been debunked or not. You can't say that people didn't vote Leave without knowledge of the possibility of financial instability.
Surely this latest shower of shit, is due to respective WTO Euro sceptics binding with the opposition benches and nothing specifically to do with the deal itself. I.e, it is neither hard enough nor includes enough (aside from worker and environmental issues and I can't work out Labours position sorry). There is obviously the Irish issue which seemed to be resolved to me through caveats. One being the EU paying millions if it went over deadline where we wouldn't.
I agree A50 is a red herring, it has been needless and a waste of time, money and thought when the UK should have been focusing on investing for the future. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So your happy to keep pouring money into the pot to keep building other country's infrastructure while we crumble. If you want to belong to the EU let's have a club we're we all pay into it. And while we're at it closing the jooly boys outing club of meps starting with Blair couple of new hospitals there. "
Given the promises of expenditure by the government where is the money coming from? You look at what Brexit is costing us, plus the promises made it's well over £350m!
So why haven't we been doing it before? Had we spent on infrastructure instead of austerity we could have been in a much better position! |
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"So your happy to keep pouring money into the pot to keep building other country's infrastructure while we crumble. If you want to belong to the EU let's have a club we're we all pay into it. And while we're at it closing the jooly boys outing club of meps starting with Blair couple of new hospitals there.
Given the promises of expenditure by the government where is the money coming from? You look at what Brexit is costing us, plus the promises made it's well over £350m!
So why haven't we been doing it before? Had we spent on infrastructure instead of austerity we could have been in a much better position!"
This.. And if anyone thinks that the government will suddenly carry on the investments in some of our poorest areas that have received Eu funding then wake up..
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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago
bolton |
And what about the billions pumped into Romania and the likes. Why do you think country like Turkey are desperate to join. We could send that money here. Look at some of the member states 40 yrs ago and now put nothing in like they have received. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The European Regional Development Fund is what you are referring.
It invests up to 50 per cent of the cost of infrastructure improvements - roads, airports, ports and the like - in regions where the GDP is below 70 per cent of the European average.
The other 50 per cent comes from the government of the area.
By improving the infrastructure in weaker areas, it aims to stimulate economic development to help these areas grow.
Conversely, as the GDP gets closer to the European average, so the desire of local people to migrate to more prosperous countries will diminish.
I believe we are seeing this effect in Poland now, with more Poles choosing to return home because the prospects in their own country now are better. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And what about the billions pumped into Romania and the likes. Why do you think country like Turkey are desperate to join. We could send that money here. Look at some of the member states 40 yrs ago and now put nothing in like they have received. "
You are the poster boy for not having another referendum.
This kind of misinformation and misunderstanding about the EU is rife. Even when it’s explained to you in simple terms, as the above poster has. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive. "
No not name calling. I just used your misinformation and misunderstanding of the complexities of the situation as an example.
I’m against another referendum. Mostly because of the huge amount of bogus information pumped out. Nothing seems to have changed since the first referendum. So I can’t see anything other than the same result. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive. "
Cant argue with that,thats why they dont want us to leave.
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive. "
Whichever way you dress it up it will cost us more to be out than we were (net) paying in.
-Matt |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The UK is a nett contributor.
That is true when you measure money going into the pot and grants going out of the pot.
Membership is more than just the balance sheet of public expenditure.
The UK spends public money on membership because it gives UK business unfettered access to the second largest market in the world.
That in turn generates economic development in the UK, which in turn generates revenue for the Government in taxation.
That is a more indirect return on the UK Government investment.
No-one is suggesting all that suddenly will dry up. But every reasonable assessment suggests UK economic activity currently attributable to trade in the single market will diminish.
Factor in those costs - loss of taxation, UB40 pay-outs etc - and then you have a truer picture about the value or otherwise of UK Government payments into the pot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK is a nett contributor.
That is true when you measure money going into the pot and grants going out of the pot.
Membership is more than just the balance sheet of public expenditure.
The UK spends public money on membership because it gives UK business unfettered access to the second largest market in the world.
That in turn generates economic development in the UK, which in turn generates revenue for the Government in taxation.
That is a more indirect return on the UK Government investment.
No-one is suggesting all that suddenly will dry up. But every reasonable assessment suggests UK economic activity currently attributable to trade in the single market will diminish.
Factor in those costs - loss of taxation, UB40 pay-outs etc - and then you have a truer picture about the value or otherwise of UK Government payments into the pot."
You’re patience in calmly explaining this over and over is admirable.  |
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"The UK is a nett contributor.
That is true when you measure money going into the pot and grants going out of the pot.
Membership is more than just the balance sheet of public expenditure.
The UK spends public money on membership because it gives UK business unfettered access to the second largest market in the world.
That in turn generates economic development in the UK, which in turn generates revenue for the Government in taxation.
That is a more indirect return on the UK Government investment.
No-one is suggesting all that suddenly will dry up. But every reasonable assessment suggests UK economic activity currently attributable to trade in the single market will diminish.
Factor in those costs - loss of taxation, UB40 pay-outs etc - and then you have a truer picture about the value or otherwise of UK Government payments into the pot.
You’re patience in calmly explaining this over and over is admirable. "
ditto |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
We are communicating here on electronics devices via the medium of the worldwide net.
That is possible only because of scientific discoveries made in the Large Hadron Collider, an enormous physics experiment beneath the Italian alps.
Where do you think the European Organization for Nuclear Research gets its money from?
No single country in Europe could afford something like that, so we pooled our money to make it happen.
Now CERN is going to build an even bigger experiment. Again, beneath the Alps. And again, possible to a large extent because countries pool their resources to create something otherwise far beyond their reach. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"so we pay them money so we can buy more goods from them than we sell to them sounds like a good deal for them.Free trade deals would be a better option in my view."
Your gripe is everything to do with the laissez-faire approach to industrial strategy started by Thatcher and upheld by every successive Government since, and nothing to do with Brussels.
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"so we pay them money so we can buy more goods from them than we sell to them sounds like a good deal for them.Free trade deals would be a better option in my view."
That is just one aspect of it.
The bigger aspect is all the organisations, regulatory functions, standards bodies etc that we are a part of or have access to via our membership that we will have to either replicate or pay piece by piece to access.
I know aviation has been mentioned a few times, but it is a good example. We used to have aircraft safety certified and overseen by EASA, a service we got access to as being a part of the EU. Now we are going to have to expand our own CAA to cover this role. This will involve extra expense and costs.
Now scale that up to think there are similar issues in pretty much every industry we have.
-Matt |
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The point of the vote was to satisfy the condition that parliamentary sovereignty prevails. The conservatives created, sustained and blew up a crisis for the country, largely through their policy of non-inclusion in the brexit process. They still had to seek parliament's approval at the final hurdle though. The conservatives managed to exclude their party from negotiating and agreeing a brexit position before triggering Article 50: just select members were permitted involvement. They excluded the other parties from being involved too. The only involvement of any other than the executive, were at stages where key legislation was required to permit brexit to continue.
The people voted for these representatives and it's right that parliamentary sovereignty prevailed: sovereignty was a key issue that influenced many to vote for brexit. They now feel the power of that sovereignty.
If you evaluate the conservatives and their performance, it's key that this is accepted as wholly their mess, from start to finish. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"We are communicating here on electronics devices via the medium of the worldwide net.
That is possible only because of scientific discoveries made in the Large Hadron Collider, an enormous physics experiment beneath the Italian alps.
Where do you think the European Organization for Nuclear Research gets its money from?
No single country in Europe could afford something like that, so we pooled our money to make it happen.
Now CERN is going to build an even bigger experiment. Again, beneath the Alps. And again, possible to a large extent because countries pool their resources to create something otherwise far beyond their reach."
what are you on about ? the haldron collider didnt operate untill september 2008 now I dont know about you but I was using the net in the nineties and it was first invented in the 80's but became more like we recognize today in 1990 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The point of the vote was to satisfy the condition that parliamentary sovereignty prevails. The conservatives created, sustained and blew up a crisis for the country, largely through their policy of non-inclusion in the brexit process. They still had to seek parliament's approval at the final hurdle though. The conservatives managed to exclude their party from negotiating and agreeing a brexit position before triggering Article 50: just select members were permitted involvement. They excluded the other parties from being involved too. The only involvement of any other than the executive, were at stages where key legislation was required to permit brexit to continue.
The people voted for these representatives and it's right that parliamentary sovereignty prevailed: sovereignty was a key issue that influenced many to vote for brexit. They now feel the power of that sovereignty.
If you evaluate the conservatives and their performance, it's key that this is accepted as wholly their mess, from start to finish. "
Interesting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes, my mistake, I confused two very different things. But the point about collaboration to achieve things beyond the reach of any one state still stands."
CERN made the LHC. CERN was the birthplace of the internet. As you say, point stands. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes.
If you were offered a vote and the only two options were 'tea or coffee'...........would you be happy when you discovered that whichever one you voted for was made with cats piss rather than water?
Because voting for something when you don't know the specifics is asking for trouble.
It's why at general elections parties have manifestos. You know what you're voting for. I don't recall seeing any specifics during the referendum.
A
No. But I would be pretty pissed off if I asked for coffee and the person I asked did everything they could to try to give me tea after I had made my decision and made it clear."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So your happy to keep pouring money into the pot to keep building other country's infrastructure while we crumble. If you want to belong to the EU let's have a club we're we all pay into it. And while we're at it closing the jooly boys outing club of meps starting with Blair couple of new hospitals there. "
Being a member of the EU takes 0.7 % of our GDP and we get considerably more back from being in the single and customs union. Brexit is coat nearly 500m a week at the moment which is allot more than membership cost us.
In short your argument doesn't make sense if you look at the facts.
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"The idea they had was to leave . I belive in this country and that we will grow from strength to strength. "
What gives you this belief? The country is a mess because of the decisions made at Westminster. These bad decisions will be made regardless of being part of the EU.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this country will go from "strength to strength" outside of the EU. We probably need to look at some of our own internal issues which frustrate us on a daily basis. Issues that we have failed to address but certainly can't blame the EU for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How?
You have to be trolling. There’s no way anyone should be asking this.  "
This shows even after all this time that people still don't understand the net benefits of being in the single market & customs union.
They just look at... Ohh we pay this much and the bastards don't give us more back... .. and don’t understand what the Country gains from it what so ever.
Classic example why people will suffer for decisions made by others who don't have a bleeding clue as to exactly what they voted for.
And we get vilification for stating the bloody obvious truth  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We are communicating here on electronics devices via the medium of the worldwide net.
That is possible only because of scientific discoveries made in the Large Hadron Collider, an enormous physics experiment beneath the Italian alps.
"
WHAT!!!
I think you may need to research your info a little more  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We are communicating here on electronics devices via the medium of the worldwide net.
That is possible only because of scientific discoveries made in the Large Hadron Collider, an enormous physics experiment beneath the Italian alps.
"
Good grief. |
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