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A question for remainers.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I do not think that is true.
Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 - the one passed by Parliament to endorse Article 50 and transpose all EU law into UK law - states:
(10) Subsection (11) applies if, at the end of 21 January 2019, there is no agreement in principle in negotiations under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union on the substance of—
(a)the arrangements for the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the EU, and
(b)the framework for the future relationship between the EU and the United Kingdom after withdrawal.
(11) A Minister of the Crown must, within the period of five days beginning with the end of 21 January 2019—
(a)make a statement setting out how Her Majesty’s Government proposes to proceed, and
(b) make arrangements for—
(i) a motion in neutral terms, to the effect that the House of Commons has considered the matter of the statement mentioned in paragraph (a), to be moved in that House by a Minister of the Crown within the period of five Commons sitting days beginning with the end of 21 January 2019, and
(ii)a motion for the House of Lords to take note of the statement mentioned in paragraph (a) to be moved in that House by a Minister of the Crown within the period of five Lords sitting days beginning with the end of 21 January 2019.
(12) A statement under subsection (11)(a) must be made in writing and be published in such manner as the Minister making it considers appropriate.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Mays deal although it's obviously alot worse than actually what we have now.
I think the deal will get voted down but I just can't see no deal happening. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I do not think that is true.
Section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 - the one passed by Parliament to endorse Article 50 and transpose all EU law into UK law - states:
(10) Subsection (11) applies if, at the end of 21 January 2019, there is no agreement in principle in negotiations under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union on the substance of—
(a)the arrangements for the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the EU, and
(b)the framework for the future relationship between the EU and the United Kingdom after withdrawal.
(11) A Minister of the Crown must, within the period of five days beginning with the end of 21 January 2019—
(a)make a statement setting out how Her Majesty’s Government proposes to proceed, and
(b) make arrangements for—
(i) a motion in neutral terms, to the effect that the House of Commons has considered the matter of the statement mentioned in paragraph (a), to be moved in that House by a Minister of the Crown within the period of five Commons sitting days beginning with the end of 21 January 2019, and
(ii)a motion for the House of Lords to take note of the statement mentioned in paragraph (a) to be moved in that House by a Minister of the Crown within the period of five Lords sitting days beginning with the end of 21 January 2019.
(12) A statement under subsection (11)(a) must be made in writing and be published in such manner as the Minister making it considers appropriate.
"
What part is not true? i said "as it stands" and today the default position is to leave.It is 13th jan today . |
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?"
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
IN artical 50 it sets out the date as 29th march.Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is the formal route for any country leaving the EU and it allows for a two-year process of negotiation. At the end of that period "the treaties shall cease to apply to the state in question" unless Article 50 is extended or revoked |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. "
Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one. |
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one."
So you accept that Tuesdays vote is not the end game yet it seems that you want to set a restriction on the type of answer?
Think it's highly likely and accepted that May's deal will fall so the initial question is only part of the actual issue..
No deal I strongly believe would be a bigger mess and it will not be voted for by Parliament..
It's not deflection to look at the bigger picture and take into account the vote you asked about in the context of the process.. |
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one.
So you accept that Tuesdays vote is not the end game yet it seems that you want to set a restriction on the type of answer?
Think it's highly likely and accepted that May's deal will fall so the initial question is only part of the actual issue..
No deal I strongly believe would be a bigger mess and it will not be voted for by Parliament..
It's not deflection to look at the bigger picture and take into account the vote you asked about in the context of the process.. "
I started the thread with a question its not compulsory to answer so people dont have to if they dont want to,if they want to ask a different question there is nothing to stop them.A no deal will definitely not be voted for but at the moment it is still the default position should a deal not be reached. |
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one.
So you accept that Tuesdays vote is not the end game yet it seems that you want to set a restriction on the type of answer?
Think it's highly likely and accepted that May's deal will fall so the initial question is only part of the actual issue..
No deal I strongly believe would be a bigger mess and it will not be voted for by Parliament..
It's not deflection to look at the bigger picture and take into account the vote you asked about in the context of the process.. "
No Deal doesn't have to be voted for in Parliament. It has already been voted for when Parliament voted to trigger article 50, and again for a 2nd time when Parliament voted by majority to pass the EU Withdrawal bill (which set 29th March exit date in UK law). Subsequently No Deal is now the default legal position. You could also call no deal the uk's backstop for leaving the EU.
To reverse this would require Parliament to pass primary legislation. Primary legislation can only be put forward by the Prime minister and the government. Backbenchers and remain rebels cannot enact or put forward primary legislation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one.
So you accept that Tuesdays vote is not the end game yet it seems that you want to set a restriction on the type of answer?
Think it's highly likely and accepted that May's deal will fall so the initial question is only part of the actual issue..
No deal I strongly believe would be a bigger mess and it will not be voted for by Parliament..
It's not deflection to look at the bigger picture and take into account the vote you asked about in the context of the process..
No Deal doesn't have to be voted for in Parliament. It has already been voted for when Parliament voted to trigger article 50, and again for a 2nd time when Parliament voted by majority to pass the EU Withdrawal bill (which set 29th March exit date in UK law). Subsequently No Deal is now the default legal position. You could also call no deal the uk's backstop for leaving the EU.
To reverse this would require Parliament to pass primary legislation. Primary legislation can only be put forward by the Prime minister and the government. Backbenchers and remain rebels cannot enact or put forward primary legislation. "
Are you a remainer now? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one.
So you accept that Tuesdays vote is not the end game yet it seems that you want to set a restriction on the type of answer?
Think it's highly likely and accepted that May's deal will fall so the initial question is only part of the actual issue..
No deal I strongly believe would be a bigger mess and it will not be voted for by Parliament..
It's not deflection to look at the bigger picture and take into account the vote you asked about in the context of the process..
No Deal doesn't have to be voted for in Parliament. It has already been voted for when Parliament voted to trigger article 50, and again for a 2nd time when Parliament voted by majority to pass the EU Withdrawal bill (which set 29th March exit date in UK law). Subsequently No Deal is now the default legal position. You could also call no deal the uk's backstop for leaving the EU.
To reverse this would require Parliament to pass primary legislation. Primary legislation can only be put forward by the Prime minister and the government. Backbenchers and remain rebels cannot enact or put forward primary legislation. "
Don't hold your breath! |
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?
The bbc fact check lays out the other options alongside what you state, therein I think will be the position taken by Parliament..
There are moves within various groups ongoing and after May's deal is voted down I think there could be more clarity on how it will go.. Yes i understand that,people are just deflecting from the question it was a very simple one.
So you accept that Tuesdays vote is not the end game yet it seems that you want to set a restriction on the type of answer?
Think it's highly likely and accepted that May's deal will fall so the initial question is only part of the actual issue..
No deal I strongly believe would be a bigger mess and it will not be voted for by Parliament..
It's not deflection to look at the bigger picture and take into account the vote you asked about in the context of the process..
No Deal doesn't have to be voted for in Parliament. It has already been voted for when Parliament voted to trigger article 50, and again for a 2nd time when Parliament voted by majority to pass the EU Withdrawal bill (which set 29th March exit date in UK law). Subsequently No Deal is now the default legal position. You could also call no deal the uk's backstop for leaving the EU.
To reverse this would require Parliament to pass primary legislation. Primary legislation can only be put forward by the Prime minister and the government. Backbenchers and remain rebels cannot enact or put forward primary legislation.
Are you a remainer now?"
No. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As it stands the default position if the deal gets voted down on tueday is to leave on the 29th with no deal.Would you rather have your mp vote for the deal or leave with no deal?"
The deal
But we're in a worse place economically with either option so as we've already inflicted economic harm since the vote we might as well continue  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Read the title, there's another similar titled question for leavers with 3 replies.
People might think you don't like answering difficult questions.
"
In the interest of fairness I must call swingatcapdagde out for posting on the Leaver thread. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"If Parliament allows it.Yes and if the EU allow it too."
Nothing to do with the EU.
The UK is sovereign. Always was before and is now.
The UK decides.
It can take what's on offer.
Or do something else.
That's why we elected MPs.
To make decisions for us.
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If Parliament allows it.Yes and if the EU allow it too.
Nothing to do with the EU.
The UK is sovereign. Always was before and is now.
The UK decides.
It can take what's on offer.
Or do something else.
That's why we elected MPs.
To make decisions for us.
"
You must do more research when article50 was implemented you get 2 years then you are out deal or no deal unless you ask for an extension or revoke it.They are the eu rules. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, that is EU law.
UK has its own law.
That law requires the exit of the UK from the EU to be the subject of an affirmative motion in Parliament.
It kinda brings things to head.
I'm not saying a hard exit isn't possible.
It just needs to go through the mince-machine that is Parliament.
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Yes, that is EU law.
UK has its own law.
That law requires the exit of the UK from the EU to be the subject of an affirmative motion in Parliament.
It kinda brings things to head.
I'm not saying a hard exit isn't possible.
It just needs to go through the mince-machine that is Parliament.
"
No it doesnt the uk law does not over ride EU law that is why 29th is important we didnt say we need to leave by then it was determined the day we implemented article 50.Im not saying they wont change it as they dont want us to leave but that is the default position at the moment. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Let's say Mrs May loses her vote.
By Jan 21, she has 5 days to deliver Plan B.
Let's say that is a hard exit.
It gets voted down.
If the Government proceeds down a hard brexit, it becomes ultra vires.
It does not have the authority in law to take that action.
That is when Government dissolves.
What is increasingly clear to me is that Parliament is taking control.
The Government is not in control.
Mrs May is not in control of her own party, so how can she be in control of Government? She isn't.
Parliament will decide.
Decide what, I do not know.
But it won't be Mrs May.
She chucked it away the moment she called a General Election.
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By *ostafun OP Man
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Let's say Mrs May loses her vote.
By Jan 21, she has 5 days to deliver Plan B.
Let's say that is a hard exit.
It gets voted down.
If the Government proceeds down a hard brexit, it becomes ultra vires.
It does not have the authority in law to take that action.
That is when Government dissolves.
What is increasingly clear to me is that Parliament is taking control.
The Government is not in control.
Mrs May is not in control of her own party, so how can she be in control of Government? She isn't.
Parliament will decide.
Decide what, I do not know.
But it won't be Mrs May.
She chucked it away the moment she called a General Election.
"
totally agree but if they dont ask for an extention because of mitigating circumstances and the eu agrees to it we are out. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
If there is only a binary choice between crap deal and no deal it's crap deal.
We could at least negotiate something one day.
It is not a binary choice though even though that is what the government is trying to present. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
totally agree but if they dont ask for an extention because of mitigating circumstances and the eu agrees to it we are out."
in those circumstances, I think Parliament will seize control from the Government.
Mrs May will be a captive in Downing Street.
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