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Plan B
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"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.." Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. | |||
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"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.." What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.." I know you like to make such intimations, they see almost to be your default on the whole issue but it serves no one to talk up even if one is only living a fantasy the possibility of 'trouble'.. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for." You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. | |||
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"Plan B is just plan A with no tweaks. We are heading blindly towards a probable catastrophe. Sadly Labour's alternative of rerunning the election will cause even more economic uncertainty. The EU has stated that you can't stay in the ecomonic trade union without freedom of movement . The only politician making sense at the moment is Keir Starmer. He is hamstrung by JC , as he wants to leave " Far too sensible! Can we form a Union with Wales as well? It seems like a good idea to work together...  | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. " Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration in the latest figures. A government white paper last year opened with: Parliament has “remained sovereign throughout our membership to the EU” despite people “not always feeling like that”. | |||
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"There's no plan B. Just desperation from all factions not to lose face "No need to lose face, pop down to boots, they've stockpiles of plan B | |||
"There's no plan B. Just desperation from all factions not to lose face
No need to lose face, pop down to boots, they've stockpiles of plan B"I saw him on Top Gear the other day, didn’t seem to have much of a clue | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. " I rather doubt it's about sovereignty. The extreme Brexiteers in parliament don't seem to like it when sovereignty bites them on the arse and parliament is given the power to vote on the brexit deal | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration in the latest figures. A government white paper last year opened with: Parliament has “remained sovereign throughout our membership to the EU” despite people “not always feeling like that”." Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? " No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration in the latest figures. A government white paper last year opened with: Parliament has “remained sovereign throughout our membership to the EU” despite people “not always feeling like that”. Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? " No they don't nor would they ever do so even after Brexit. | |||
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"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. I rather doubt it's about sovereignty. The extreme Brexiteers in parliament don't seem to like it when sovereignty bites them on the arse and parliament is given the power to vote on the brexit deal" Can it really be about immigration when leaving the EU, in itself, doesn’t solve. It can be inferred from the commentary. At best voting brexit can only give you “the freedom” to control. However no one can be upset if parliament decides not to use this freedom. Is it about laws? Maybe. But again, it’s about removing the risk that we adopt a rule we don’t like. In practice, given how things are voted for, it’s about us adopting a rule we subsequently don’t like. However this seems to be a small risk, given when it plays out, it tends to be in peripheral issues. That’s why no one can point to a significant incidence. It’s about Spanish owned fishing boats. So I would propose you are voting due to a concern (date I say fear) about a future event. Things like CU, VAT etc are similarly about the perception of freedom. We’re leaving a relationship so we can “sleep with other people if we wanted to” despite the fact we’re probably not going to. And so end up worse off (no sex). And to make things worse out current gf is open to some form of swinging ... we just haven’t taken the opportunity to join fab !! | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. " As well as being about immigration, laws and sovereignty it's also now a matter of principle about democracy in this country. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration " This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. " I get it. And have sympathy with it. I’d describe it as a “cost” of being in the EU. (To be clear, I’m not saying it is a cost today, but there is a risk it could become a cost tomorrow. Nor am I saying it is a cost which is worth losing benefits from). However if we leave, and we decide to continue to allow the same level of freedom of movement tomorrow, I see this as brexit being delivered 100%. Even if you, as a leaver, are unhappy. There is. No such thing as a promised brexit. I think where remainers get frustrated is it’s not clear if everyone is saying the “cost” of the EU rules are too high for the benefits. Or whether it’s just the “cost” as we choose to apply them. And if we implemented the three month later the costs would be acceptable. I get you are in the former camp. It doesn’t mean all leavers are or that all leavers see the EUs rules as “just wrong”. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. " I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration in the latest figures. A government white paper last year opened with: Parliament has “remained sovereign throughout our membership to the EU” despite people “not always feeling like that”. Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No they don't nor would they ever do so even after Brexit. " Why wouldn't they have that right after brexit? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. " But you admit that our governments didn't impose the rules on EU migration? Did you know about the 90 day rule before the referendum? I didn't, and it was never mentioned in the campaign as it was a political "hot potato"! However, if you did, then you were complicit in hiding the facts! Also, I ask this question: We had 250,000 migrants from "the world " which we have control of NOW - if we are full, then why did we let them in centaur? This is under our control now - and it will continue after we have left the EU! | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no." What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. " Xenophobia and intolerance writ large. No Johnny Foreigner allowed into the UK whatsoever. Followed by - my opinion is right, stop whinging. You really do come across as an increasingly bitter individual. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. As well as being about immigration, laws and sovereignty it's also now a matter of principle about democracy in this country. " Principles like racism, xenophobia, jinogism and nationalistic pride. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no." We can’t because we signed to the treaty of Rome. We have the right to withdraw from that treaty and give us back the freedom. Or are you saying we need ability freedom regardless of anything we sign. Because that will make FTAs hard. Or another example. Should we, as a sovereign county, be allowed to subsidise our airlines. Because we can’t if we agree to the Eu proposal on aviation. | |||
" Or another example. Should we, as a sovereign county, be allowed to subsidise our airlines. Because we can’t if we agree to the Eu proposal on aviation. " It's called state aid. Similarly, if the UK opted to weaken worker rights below those in the EU, the proposal allows the EU to act. The proposal also caps the number of flights between the EU and the UK at the 2018 level. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. Xenophobia and intolerance writ large. No Johnny Foreigner allowed into the UK whatsoever. Followed by - my opinion is right, stop whinging. You really do come across as an increasingly bitter individual." Just as the tired old '3 month deadline" is getting tedious, so is the "you're a racist and a xenophobe" to anyone who expresses any concern about immigration. I'm watching the EU Withdrawal Agreement debate live on the BBC Parliament channel now, and a Labour MP's comments earlier seem pertinent. She said that many of the concerns over immigration surrounding the EU referendum are legitimate and it's not racist to have concerns about the levels of immigration in this country. What is wrong is to label people who have those concerns racist or xenophobic, and is how people like you try to stifle debate on the issue. People have had enough and they won't now shut up about it, no matter how much you'd like them to. Maybe you should take on board what that Labour MP had to say. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. " Or I can't understand why others would rightly point out that the flaws in the immigration system I have been shouting about could and should have been addressed as necessary by our own government who had the means to do so but didn't so it's my cop out to blame the EU in my ignorance as it suits my ideological view.. Get it..  | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. Or I can't understand why others would rightly point out that the flaws in the immigration system I have been shouting about could and should have been addressed as necessary by our own government who had the means to do so but didn't so it's my cop out to blame the EU in my ignorance as it suits my ideological view.. Get it.. "You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. Or I can't understand why others would rightly point out that the flaws in the immigration system I have been shouting about could and should have been addressed as necessary by our own government who had the means to do so but didn't so it's my cop out to blame the EU in my ignorance as it suits my ideological view.. Get it..
You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. "The three-month rule is not going to change - in or out of the EU. It will apply equally to Brits travelling to Europe as it will to Europeans travelling to the UK. The UK has already said that no matter what the EU does, the UK border will operate largely the same and most people will be waved through as before. As will goods are waved through as before. Something about controlling our borders... But that is another story. In other words - Europeans travelling to the UK will be waved through as before as will Brits travelling to the EU. The difference post-Brexit is that the UK will have to find a way of discovering who has stayed longer than three months. Something that other European nations have been doing for a while. Much ado about nothing. Brexiters conned into thinking that "free movement of people" has ended when there never was such a thing anyway. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. " How is it tedious? Sucsessive governments haven't apllied it...places like Belgium did it! As for one day that makes holidays an issue unless you want visas. I bet you didn't know about it before the referendum! | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. Or I can't understand why others would rightly point out that the flaws in the immigration system I have been shouting about could and should have been addressed as necessary by our own government who had the means to do so but didn't so it's my cop out to blame the EU in my ignorance as it suits my ideological view.. Get it..
You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. "So you don't believe the white paper then? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. How is it tedious? Sucsessive governments haven't apllied it...places like Belgium did it! As for one day that makes holidays an issue unless you want visas. I bet you didn't know about it before the referendum!" All you haven't given your opinion on the rise of non EU imigration recently! How do you feel about that? | |||
" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. " It's called freedom of movement. It's your right, too. Until you decided you didn't want the right to move freely across borders. Fuck up free movement from the EU and you also fuck up free movement from the UK. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. | |||
" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. It's called freedom of movement. It's your right, too. Until you decided you didn't want the right to move freely across borders. Fuck up free movement from the EU and you also fuck up free movement from the UK. What's good for the goose is good for the gander." But the the 'jonny foreigners' will be treated equally and some want their cake and eat it.. | |||
" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. " actually.... not quite true.... you are allowed to remove people in the cases of illegal activity or national security........ | |||
" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. actually.... not quite true.... you are allowed to remove people in the cases of illegal activity or national security........" there allowed to remove anyone for illegal activity or national security tho it’s called jail lol | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT."" Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. | |||
" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. actually.... not quite true.... you are allowed to remove people in the cases of illegal activity or national security........ there allowed to remove anyone for illegal activity or national security tho it’s called jail lol" didn't quite mean it like that... if you are deemed to be a threat to national security they can still refuse you entry in the 1st place... lol before you do anything naughty here.... | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so." I’m not convinced you have. I think your definition is saying sovereignty is lost when parliament can’t immediately take an action it may wish to. However many treaties restrict the freedom of parliament... at least while being part of that treaty. Many FTA will prevent putting quotas on imports say. Does this mean having an FTA stops sovereignty? I would say sovereignty has not been given up if you’ve willingly accepted a reduction in freedom AND have the ability to reverse that decision. This may be a bit loose still but until you (and I see centaur has said similar) define what is meant it is hard to say when it has been lost. | |||
" Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No they don't nor would they ever do so even after Brexit. Why wouldn't they have that right after brexit?" Out of them 12 words in my response where did I say we wouldn't have that right? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. " Immigration benefits the country and not just economically. Laws - our MPs vote those in. And any lies or sound bites about 'unelected dictators' is the real project fear. Sovereignty - don't get this one. We already are a sovereign nation state. So cancel the pointless bollox that is Brexit and crack on as a leading European Power. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so." the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!  | |||
" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. " Why would we want them to leave?They are a huge benefit to our country. Socially it improves our diversity. Morally it shows we are an open and tolerant society. Economically they generate billions. And genetically they bring fresh DNA to our aging population  And long may it continue! | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so." You have absolutely no idea at all what is coming down the road do you? Every trade deal in the future will have compromises that impact our Sovereignty. For example, the US will require quota’s and restrictions on third party countries who we may want to actually trade with. Other trade deals may require us to agree certain standards on products and/or agree to visa compromises for visitors. Every deal involves compromise and your comments about VAT demonstrate only that your awareness of how things actually happen in the real world appears to be clouded by your Brexit fanaticism. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. Please explain how brexit solves these as they are not really issues: We agreed with 90% of the EU regulations ..We could deport EU imigrants who have not found a job within 3 month under European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC suceesive governments have chosen not to,also Non EU immigration appears to have replaced EU migration This tired old argument about 3 months is getting tedious. As a leave voter I don't want it being applied for 1 day, let alone 3 months. The EU's free movement rules are just wrong, full stop. I don't know how many times leavers have to say this before remainers get it. " The EU's free movement rules are just fine by me thanks. We choose not to implement them. I suspect that a million of your fellow citizens who live abroad are quite content too | |||
" Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No they don't nor would they ever do so even after Brexit. Why wouldn't they have that right after brexit? Out of them 12 words in my response where did I say we wouldn't have that right? " You said they would not have the power to reduce VAT rates after brexit.....why not? | |||
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" Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No they don't nor would they ever do so even after Brexit. Why wouldn't they have that right after brexit? Out of them 12 words in my response where did I say we wouldn't have that right? You said they would not have the power to reduce VAT rates after brexit.....why not?" here is a question for you then.... what products have the government proposed there be a zero rate VAT tax on that there isn't already? | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around! "The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website: Standard VAT rate This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive). It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive). The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. | |||
"Any Plan B's emerging yet?" People’s Vote looking increasingly likely. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. You have absolutely no idea at all what is coming down the road do you? Every trade deal in the future will have compromises that impact our Sovereignty. For example, the US will require quota’s and restrictions on third party countries who we may want to actually trade with. Other trade deals may require us to agree certain standards on products and/or agree to visa compromises for visitors. Every deal involves compromise and your comments about VAT demonstrate only that your awareness of how things actually happen in the real world appears to be clouded by your Brexit fanaticism." On the contrary, it is you who has no idea....the EU rules on VAT are not a part of any trade agreement. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around! "Vat on domestic fuel is 5%,road fuels are charged at 20, as is business use electric etc (there a few exceptions) | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord."actually.... yes it can!..... it can actually reduce VAT down to 5% on specific goods and services... and as with childrens clothing for example its zero.... you are allowed to keep it at the rate you went into the EU with... which was why UK Energy had Zero VAT on it till the Tories put VAT on it | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord." say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it....... | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it......." Thats not the point, we dont have control over VAT, there is some flexibility but it is limited | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it....... Thats not the point, we dont have control over VAT, there is some flexibility but it is limited" this is the government that actually put up the general rate of VAT to 20%.... so again, any product will do, we know that some already get special treatment, so again just one product where the government are pledging to put down the VAT tariff down to Zero will do...... thanks..... | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it....... Thats not the point, we dont have control over VAT, there is some flexibility but it is limited this is the government that actually put up the general rate of VAT to 20%.... so again, any product will do, we know that some already get special treatment, so again just one product where the government are pledging to put down the VAT tariff down to Zero will do...... thanks....." Do you have difficulty in understanding intent and ability, and do you accept you were wrong on vat rates ? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend!" I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted... | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it....... Thats not the point, we dont have control over VAT, there is some flexibility but it is limited this is the government that actually put up the general rate of VAT to 20%.... so again, any product will do, we know that some already get special treatment, so again just one product where the government are pledging to put down the VAT tariff down to Zero will do...... thanks..... Do you have difficulty in understanding intent and ability, and do you accept you were wrong on vat rates ?" you are putting up a problem that no one is intending on doing... so you are really just being awkward for the sake of being awkward...... | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it....... Thats not the point, we dont have control over VAT, there is some flexibility but it is limited" How big a problem has this been, during your lifespan, for example? And what is the level of any likely and predicted impact that this would have on you, if the UK remained in the EU, based on known and forecast government requirements for VAT changes? Are you any more or less impacted by this, than the rest of the UK population? Do you have any estimation of the economic impact that this has had to the country? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted..." And thereby proving de-facto that they are knuckle dragging bell ends who did not after all know what they were voting for other than - sticking it to fucking foreigners - 2 world wars and 1 World Cup pal. | |||
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"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted... And thereby proving de-facto that they are knuckle dragging bell ends who did not after all know what they were voting for other than - sticking it to fucking foreigners - 2 world wars and 1 World Cup pal." So those of us who voted leave and are not happy with the governments attemts at betrayal are “knuckle dragglers?” What a load of pc liberal bull shit! | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted... And thereby proving de-facto that they are knuckle dragging bell ends who did not after all know what they were voting for other than - sticking it to fucking foreigners - 2 world wars and 1 World Cup pal. So those of us who voted leave and are not happy with the governments attemts at betrayal are “knuckle dragglers?” What a load of pc liberal bull shit!" I think you (and I) were talking about threats of violence- not all leave voters. As far as I can see it is only a tiny minority of Leave voters who are threatening violence and clearly they must not have known what they were voting for that, or they are just thick as pig shit. Why do people fight? Because they are too dumb to articulate their grievances and think that beating others is easier than talking. Question then - what is it that generates such violent feelings??? As there is nothing that is factually Brexit related that could/should possibly be so highly contentious as to lead to violence - then simple logic would dictate that those who threaten violence did not know what they were voting for and assumed that it was a natter of life and death. Dumb fucks???? Maybe. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted..." If there is another referendum and more people vote to remain, who would have been fobbed off? Will democracy have been "betrayed" if normal people change their mind? I understand that you voted for. However, between incompetence and impossibility the outcome may not be what a lot of people expected. Are they allowed to change their minds? If not, why not? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. Why? EU membership is about economics. Why would anneconomic debate cause trouble? Bizarre. Unless of course, those threatening trouble did not actually understand what they were voting for. You may see it as only being about economics and that's you're opinion. Many other people in the country don't see it as only an economic issue. There are many other factors involved such as immigration, laws and sovereignty. " Does the EU prevent us from barring non-EU immigrants? Is it only EU immigrants that you don't like? What EU laws do you not like? How many in 40 years? How many UK laws have you not liked in 40 years? If we have a trade dispute on WTO rules will the UK Supreme Court have sovereignty over the judgment? | |||
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"Any Plan B's emerging yet?" According to some on here Plan B seems to be 3 fold 1 - Reduce VAT to zero. 2 - Allowing Europeans to stay in the UK for even 1 day is too long. 3 - Only make FTAs that don't require any compromise of national sovereignty (which actually means no FTAs at all) Have I missed anything? | |||
" The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord. say again... name one product where the government are pledging to put a Zero VAT tariff on it....... Thats not the point, we dont have control over VAT, there is some flexibility but it is limited this is the government that actually put up the general rate of VAT to 20%.... so again, any product will do, we know that some already get special treatment, so again just one product where the government are pledging to put down the VAT tariff down to Zero will do...... thanks....." Do we have sovereignty over our VAT rates? No. Were you wrong when you said we can put VAT down to 5% on anything? Yes. And as for any product where the government are pledging to put VAT down to zero? How about the tampon tax? At the moment it's still in place. Now, why have the government, who want to scrap it, not been able to? | |||
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" You don't get it though. It's not within our own governments power to remove, deport or ask EU citizens to leave the UK before the 3 month deadline. This also points to loss of sovereignty as we are not fully in control of our own country's affairs with regard to immigration while we remain a member of the EU. Why would we want them to leave?They are a huge benefit to our country. Socially it improves our diversity. Morally it shows we are an open and tolerant society. Economically they generate billions. And genetically they bring fresh DNA to our aging population And long may it continue!"Forgot to say my source sorry. It was the governments Migration Advisory Committee report from Sept'18 | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord."If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules. What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all. There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol | |||
"Any Plan B's emerging yet? According to some on here Plan B seems to be 3 fold 1 - Reduce VAT to zero. 2 - Allowing Europeans to stay in the UK for even 1 day is too long. 3 - Only make FTAs that don't require any compromise of national sovereignty (which actually means no FTAs at all) Have I missed anything? " You missed open borders of 0% tarrifs on everything | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted... And thereby proving de-facto that they are knuckle dragging bell ends who did not after all know what they were voting for other than - sticking it to fucking foreigners - 2 world wars and 1 World Cup pal. So those of us who voted leave and are not happy with the governments attemts at betrayal are “knuckle dragglers?” What a load of pc liberal bull shit! I think you (and I) were talking about threats of violence- not all leave voters. As far as I can see it is only a tiny minority of Leave voters who are threatening violence and clearly they must not have known what they were voting for that, or they are just thick as pig shit. Why do people fight? Because they are too dumb to articulate their grievances and think that beating others is easier than talking. Question then - what is it that generates such violent feelings??? As there is nothing that is factually Brexit related that could/should possibly be so highly contentious as to lead to violence - then simple logic would dictate that those who threaten violence did not know what they were voting for and assumed that it was a natter of life and death. Dumb fucks???? Maybe." I don’t suppose you think the same about antifa when they attack people because of their beliefs? Throwing bricks at women and children?? | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted... And thereby proving de-facto that they are knuckle dragging bell ends who did not after all know what they were voting for other than - sticking it to fucking foreigners - 2 world wars and 1 World Cup pal. So those of us who voted leave and are not happy with the governments attemts at betrayal are “knuckle dragglers?” What a load of pc liberal bull shit! I think you (and I) were talking about threats of violence- not all leave voters. As far as I can see it is only a tiny minority of Leave voters who are threatening violence and clearly they must not have known what they were voting for that, or they are just thick as pig shit. Why do people fight? Because they are too dumb to articulate their grievances and think that beating others is easier than talking. Question then - what is it that generates such violent feelings??? As there is nothing that is factually Brexit related that could/should possibly be so highly contentious as to lead to violence - then simple logic would dictate that those who threaten violence did not know what they were voting for and assumed that it was a natter of life and death. Dumb fucks???? Maybe. I don’t suppose you think the same about antifa when they attack people because of their beliefs? Throwing bricks at women and children??" I think the violent side of the antifa is as reprehensible as the fa side ... Do we all agree political violence by anyone is not acceptable ? | |||
" Do we all agree political violence by anyone is not acceptable ?" That is the legal definition of terrorism - violence to bring about political change. | |||
"If they cancel A50 then there will be trouble, and they will deserve it.. What do you mean? Please elaborate my friend! I think there will be violence if A50 doesn’t happen. We voted to leave, and we were assured that if we voted for it, it would happen. It has appear like the politicians have had a problem with this, and are doing their best to stop us getting the BREXIT we the people actually voted for. We will be fobbed off, and it will not be accepted... And thereby proving de-facto that they are knuckle dragging bell ends who did not after all know what they were voting for other than - sticking it to fucking foreigners - 2 world wars and 1 World Cup pal. So those of us who voted leave and are not happy with the governments attemts at betrayal are “knuckle dragglers?” What a load of pc liberal bull shit! I think you (and I) were talking about threats of violence- not all leave voters. As far as I can see it is only a tiny minority of Leave voters who are threatening violence and clearly they must not have known what they were voting for that, or they are just thick as pig shit. Why do people fight? Because they are too dumb to articulate their grievances and think that beating others is easier than talking. Question then - what is it that generates such violent feelings??? As there is nothing that is factually Brexit related that could/should possibly be so highly contentious as to lead to violence - then simple logic would dictate that those who threaten violence did not know what they were voting for and assumed that it was a natter of life and death. Dumb fucks???? Maybe. I don’t suppose you think the same about antifa when they attack people because of their beliefs? Throwing bricks at women and children?? I think the violent side of the antifa is as reprehensible as the fa side ... Do we all agree political violence by anyone is not acceptable ?" Yes, unless of course it is in self defence... | |||
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"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
"You've never heard of the 'tampon tax' then, and the government wanting to reduce it but they can't because of EU rules? | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
You've never heard of the 'tampon tax' then, and the government wanting to reduce it but they can't because of EU rules?"Not 100% the UK government introduced a 10% vat tax in 1973 at the same time it joined the common market. Its currently 5% - so 5% reduction whilst being a member of the EU!#alternativefacts | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
You've never heard of the 'tampon tax' then, and the government wanting to reduce it but they can't because of EU rules?"I was waiting for that
OK, I'll be as balanced as I can on this point.
The "Tampon Tax" is 5%
You can buy a pack of sanitary product for a quid.
5% of that quid yes is not world ending.
Saying that, it's within the governments power to reduce a whole massive range of taxes by a fraction that would negate the tiny tiny amount of tax being paid on sanitary products by women but they don't do they.
It's a minuscule taxation that's being used as a political football now being highjacked by Brexit.
It's just a desperate measure now to gleen something, anything that can be said to be positive about having Brexit. | |||
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"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
You've never heard of the 'tampon tax' then, and the government wanting to reduce it but they can't because of EU rules?
Not 100% the UK government introduced a 10% vat tax in 1973 at the same time it joined the common market. Its currently 5% - so 5% reduction whilst being a member of the EU!#alternativefacts"The replacement of the purchase tax with VAT was a cindition of joining the EEC. EU rules are a minimum of 15%...and have been since 2006. There are some odd exceptions, tampons being one, that can be charged at 5%. But, even though the government has pledged to rexuce the tampon tax to zero, the EU will not let them. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
"So the government would never reduce VAT rates? Between 1973 and 2006, when the EU directive on minimum VAT rates was brought in, UK governments reduced VAT rates 6 times. | |||
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"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
So the government would never reduce VAT rates?
Between 1973 and 2006, when the EU directive on minimum VAT rates was brought in, UK governments reduced VAT rates 6 times."We'll it's only been reduced once in the last 40 years and that was due to a world recession. 18 June 1979 18 March 1991 15.0% 19 March 1991 30 November 2008 17.5% 1 December 2008 31 December 2009 15.0% 1 January 2010 3 January 2011 17.5% 4 January 2011 Present 20.0% You cling to your idea of VAT rates been SLASHED well below 15% on Brexit day if it brings you pleasure, but for everyone else in the real world we know VAT rates will not be slashed below 15% even when we can do so. Its a total moot point of the highest order | |||
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"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
So the government would never reduce VAT rates?
Between 1973 and 2006, when the EU directive on minimum VAT rates was brought in, UK governments reduced VAT rates 6 times.
We'll it's only been reduced once in the last 40 years and that was due to a world recession.
18 June 1979 18 March 1991 15.0%
19 March 1991 30 November 2008 17.5%
1 December 2008 31 December 2009 15.0%
1 January 2010 3 January 2011 17.5%
4 January 2011 Present 20.0%
You cling to your idea of VAT rates been SLASHED well below 15% on Brexit day if it brings you pleasure, but for everyone else in the real world we know VAT rates will not be slashed below 15% even when we can do so.
Its a total moot point of the highest order "On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973. April 1973 VAT rate 10%. July 1974, REDUCED the standard rate of VAT reduced to 8% Higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods introduced. 1974, higher rate of VAT doubled to 25%. April 1976 higher rate REDUCED back to 12.5% June 1979 standard rate of VAT increased from 8% to 15% and the higher rate abolished. VAT on petrol REDUCED to zero. 1991, VAT increased from 15% to 17.5%. April 1994 VAT on fuel raised to 8% which had previously been zero-rated. Sept 1997 VAT on fuel REDUCED to 5% Jul 1998, VAT on installing energy saving materials REDUCED from 17.5% to 5%. Jan 2001 VAT on sanitary products REDUCED from 17.5% to 5% on sanitary protection products (from 1 January 2001); Further VAT REDUCTIONS from 17.5% to 5% were children's car seats (April 2001); conversion and renovation of certain residential properties (May 2001); contraceptives (July 2006); and smoking cessation products (July 2007). Dec 2008, VAT REDUCED from 17.5% to 15%...the lowest it could be reduced to under EU rules (Alistair Darling has since said he would have liked to have cut it further to boost the economy post-GFC, but couldn't)..(Increased again to 17.5% Jan 2010). 6 times since 1973 and before the EU VAT minimum VAT directive of 2006, VAT has been reduced to well below 15%. VAT is an important tool in the economic management of a country. But the point is not whether or not we would cut the VAT rate to below 15%...it's whether or not, we CAN. And the answer to that is we can't, because the EU won't allow us to. You have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
So the government would never reduce VAT rates?
Between 1973 and 2006, when the EU directive on minimum VAT rates was brought in, UK governments reduced VAT rates 6 times.
We'll it's only been reduced once in the last 40 years and that was due to a world recession.
18 June 1979 18 March 1991 15.0%
19 March 1991 30 November 2008 17.5%
1 December 2008 31 December 2009 15.0%
1 January 2010 3 January 2011 17.5%
4 January 2011 Present 20.0%
You cling to your idea of VAT rates been SLASHED well below 15% on Brexit day if it brings you pleasure, but for everyone else in the real world we know VAT rates will not be slashed below 15% even when we can do so.
Its a total moot point of the highest order
On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973.
April 1973 VAT rate 10%.
July 1974, REDUCED the standard rate of VAT reduced to 8%
Higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods introduced.
1974, higher rate of VAT doubled to 25%.
April 1976 higher rate REDUCED back to 12.5%
June 1979 standard rate of VAT increased from 8% to 15% and the higher rate abolished. VAT on petrol REDUCED to zero.
1991, VAT increased from 15% to 17.5%.
April 1994 VAT on fuel raised to 8% which had previously been zero-rated.
Sept 1997 VAT on fuel REDUCED to 5%
Jul 1998, VAT on installing energy saving materials REDUCED from 17.5% to 5%.
Jan 2001 VAT on sanitary products REDUCED from 17.5% to 5% on sanitary protection products (from 1 January 2001);
Further VAT REDUCTIONS from 17.5% to 5% were
children's car seats (April 2001); conversion and renovation of certain residential properties (May 2001); contraceptives (July 2006); and smoking cessation products (July 2007).
Dec 2008, VAT REDUCED from 17.5% to 15%...the lowest it could be reduced to under EU rules (Alistair Darling has since said he would have liked to have cut it further to boost the economy post-GFC, but couldn't)..(Increased again to 17.5% Jan 2010).
6 times since 1973 and before the EU VAT minimum VAT directive of 2006, VAT has been reduced to well below 15%.
VAT is an important tool in the economic management of a country.
But the point is not whether or not we would cut the VAT rate to below 15%...it's whether or not, we CAN. And the answer to that is we can't, because the EU won't allow us to.
You have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point.
"LOL I love the last line especially coming from you
Spelling it out loud and clear I'm on about the standard rate of VAT which is 5% higher than the EU minimum.
That shows as we are being charged MORE than the minimum for standard rate VAT that the UK Government has no intention of reducing VAT what so ever.
The standard rate could easily be adjusted upto 5% lower but it isn't.
So saying VAT cannot be reduced is plain wrong and shows you have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point.
| |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
So the government would never reduce VAT rates?
Between 1973 and 2006, when the EU directive on minimum VAT rates was brought in, UK governments reduced VAT rates 6 times.
We'll it's only been reduced once in the last 40 years and that was due to a world recession.
18 June 1979 18 March 1991 15.0%
19 March 1991 30 November 2008 17.5%
1 December 2008 31 December 2009 15.0%
1 January 2010 3 January 2011 17.5%
4 January 2011 Present 20.0%
You cling to your idea of VAT rates been SLASHED well below 15% on Brexit day if it brings you pleasure, but for everyone else in the real world we know VAT rates will not be slashed below 15% even when we can do so.
Its a total moot point of the highest order
On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973.
April 1973 VAT rate 10%.
July 1974, REDUCED the standard rate of VAT reduced to 8%
Higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods introduced.
1974, higher rate of VAT doubled to 25%.
April 1976 higher rate REDUCED back to 12.5%
June 1979 standard rate of VAT increased from 8% to 15% and the higher rate abolished. VAT on petrol REDUCED to zero.
1991, VAT increased from 15% to 17.5%.
April 1994 VAT on fuel raised to 8% which had previously been zero-rated.
Sept 1997 VAT on fuel REDUCED to 5%
Jul 1998, VAT on installing energy saving materials REDUCED from 17.5% to 5%.
Jan 2001 VAT on sanitary products REDUCED from 17.5% to 5% on sanitary protection products (from 1 January 2001);
Further VAT REDUCTIONS from 17.5% to 5% were
children's car seats (April 2001); conversion and renovation of certain residential properties (May 2001); contraceptives (July 2006); and smoking cessation products (July 2007).
Dec 2008, VAT REDUCED from 17.5% to 15%...the lowest it could be reduced to under EU rules (Alistair Darling has since said he would have liked to have cut it further to boost the economy post-GFC, but couldn't)..(Increased again to 17.5% Jan 2010).
6 times since 1973 and before the EU VAT minimum VAT directive of 2006, VAT has been reduced to well below 15%.
VAT is an important tool in the economic management of a country.
But the point is not whether or not we would cut the VAT rate to below 15%...it's whether or not, we CAN. And the answer to that is we can't, because the EU won't allow us to.
You have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point.
LOL I love the last line especially coming from you
Spelling it out loud and clear I'm on about the standard rate of VAT which is 5% higher than the EU minimum.
That shows as we are being charged MORE than the minimum for standard rate VAT that the UK Government has no intention of reducing VAT what so ever.
The standard rate could easily be adjusted upto 5% lower but it isn't.
So saying VAT cannot be reduced is plain wrong and shows you have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point.
"I've said VAT cannot be reduced to below 15%, as per EU directive 2006. I've also said that there are one or two exceptions to this rule. You said we will never reduce the standard rate to below 15%, and that VAT has only been reduced once in 40 years. I've shown you several examples of where we have reduced VAT to below 15%. And I've also explained that it is the fact that we cannot reduce VAT to below 15% even if we wanted to that is the point that is being made. I also explained that when Alistair Darling dropped VAT to 15% from 17.5% after the GFC, he actually wanted to drop it lower, but was unable to because EU rules. One of the key tools that a government can use to exercise national economic management is VAT....he wanted to reduce VAT to help increase spending in the economy....because jt was only a 2.5% drop, it had no effect on prices...a 5% drop would have. You, unfortunately, seem to be unable to grasp any of this. | |||
i thank you!!!!!! and who says the european parliament doesn't listen to concerns eh???
so... lets go back to my original question....
is there ANY product that the government are planning to reduce to zero that isn't zero at this point in time!!!
| |||
"see.... i thought someone would mention the "tampon tax"..... thanks for indulging me JandS... so i assume you missed this juicy nugget..... "On the 3rd October 2018, new EU VAT rules that will allow the UK to stop taxing sanitary products were approved by the European Parliament" Taaaaaa Daaaaaaaaa..........
i thank you!!!!!! and who says the european parliament doesn't listen to concerns eh???
so... lets go back to my original question....
is there ANY product that the government are planning to reduce to zero that isn't zero at this point in time!!!
"Why did it take the EU so long to do it though and only allowed it on 3rd October, just 3 months ago? Call me cynical but maybe the EU allowed it to try to help remainers like you score points. The EU know we're leaving and have known we're leaving for the last 2 years, it's a pretty pointless exercise allowing it now we're leaving in 2 1/2 months in March. | |||
"Does the UK Government have the power to reduce VAT rates to zero? No. but I think if you check we were the main pushers of increasing the VAT rate and every government that was a member of the EU had the option of keeping the old rates of VAT when increases were introduced. Our government enthusiastically adopted every increase it pushed for as soon as it was approved, used the extra revenue to reduce corporate taxes and the top rate of income tax and then blamed the EU for the price rises due to VAT. So please don't blame the EU for something our government did to us to advance their own political agenda of gradually transferring as much of the tax burden from the rich few downward while transferring wealth in the opposite direction. I'm not blamimg the EU for anything....I'm asking if we have, as a sovereign country, the right to rexuce VAT to zero should we so wish. And the answer, as you quite rightly point out, is no. What a ridiculous and moot point to argue though. VAT is a godsend for all governments as it gives them another income stream with which to fiddle with. To think that my question as to why there might be violence and trouble to come don to this as being one possible motive is beyond ludicrous. "We are going to riot in the streets because our Government will not be able to remove VAT." Be sensible for once and read the threads. Someone said we haven't given away any sovereignty. I've proven otherwise. Whether a government chooses to reduce VAT to zero or not, is not the point....the point is that they cannot do so. the whole VAT this is a kinda red herring as well..... because the Actual rule is that "Products can not have VAT reduced to Zero, if the national government put VAT on the product in the first place!" so that is why there is no VAT placed on childrens clothing...... and there was not VAT on Energy prices... until the UK government put VAT on it (was zero... then raised to 8%.. then the tories again proposed it go up to 16% but was defeated.... then went up to 10%!)... once VAT is placed on a product it can only be reduced down to 5%...... although like the UK govt have proved with tampons, that can actually be gotten around!
The EU standard minimum rate is 15%....not 5%. Tgere are one or two exemptions. From the EU's website:
Standard VAT rate
This is the rate that EU countries have to apply to all non-exempt goods and services (Article 96 VAT Directive).
It must be no less than 15%, but there is no maximum (Article 97 VAT Directive).
The "VAT thing" is not a "kinda red herring". The UK cannot reduce its standard VAT rate below 15% of its own accord.
If your VAT issue was an issue at all then we'd only have 15%VAT rate and the government would be wanting to reduce it but could not because of EU rules.
What we do have is a VAT rate higher than the minimum with no sign from the government wanting to reduce it at all.
There's no point complaining we can't do something that we'd never do to start with. Is that really the best example of taking back control lol
So the government would never reduce VAT rates?
Between 1973 and 2006, when the EU directive on minimum VAT rates was brought in, UK governments reduced VAT rates 6 times.
We'll it's only been reduced once in the last 40 years and that was due to a world recession.
18 June 1979 18 March 1991 15.0%
19 March 1991 30 November 2008 17.5%
1 December 2008 31 December 2009 15.0%
1 January 2010 3 January 2011 17.5%
4 January 2011 Present 20.0%
You cling to your idea of VAT rates been SLASHED well below 15% on Brexit day if it brings you pleasure, but for everyone else in the real world we know VAT rates will not be slashed below 15% even when we can do so.
Its a total moot point of the highest order
On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973.
April 1973 VAT rate 10%.
July 1974, REDUCED the standard rate of VAT reduced to 8%
Higher rate of 12.5% for petrol and some luxury goods introduced.
1974, higher rate of VAT doubled to 25%.
April 1976 higher rate REDUCED back to 12.5%
June 1979 standard rate of VAT increased from 8% to 15% and the higher rate abolished. VAT on petrol REDUCED to zero.
1991, VAT increased from 15% to 17.5%.
April 1994 VAT on fuel raised to 8% which had previously been zero-rated.
Sept 1997 VAT on fuel REDUCED to 5%
Jul 1998, VAT on installing energy saving materials REDUCED from 17.5% to 5%.
Jan 2001 VAT on sanitary products REDUCED from 17.5% to 5% on sanitary protection products (from 1 January 2001);
Further VAT REDUCTIONS from 17.5% to 5% were
children's car seats (April 2001); conversion and renovation of certain residential properties (May 2001); contraceptives (July 2006); and smoking cessation products (July 2007).
Dec 2008, VAT REDUCED from 17.5% to 15%...the lowest it could be reduced to under EU rules (Alistair Darling has since said he would have liked to have cut it further to boost the economy post-GFC, but couldn't)..(Increased again to 17.5% Jan 2010).
6 times since 1973 and before the EU VAT minimum VAT directive of 2006, VAT has been reduced to well below 15%.
VAT is an important tool in the economic management of a country.
But the point is not whether or not we would cut the VAT rate to below 15%...it's whether or not, we CAN. And the answer to that is we can't, because the EU won't allow us to.
You have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point.
LOL I love the last line especially coming from you
Spelling it out loud and clear I'm on about the standard rate of VAT which is 5% higher than the EU minimum.
That shows as we are being charged MORE than the minimum for standard rate VAT that the UK Government has no intention of reducing VAT what so ever.
The standard rate could easily be adjusted upto 5% lower but it isn't.
So saying VAT cannot be reduced is plain wrong and shows you have a distinct lack of comprehension of this point.
I've said VAT cannot be reduced to below 15%, as per EU directive 2006. I've also said that there are one or two exceptions to this rule.
You said we will never reduce the standard rate to below 15%, and that VAT has only been reduced once in 40 years. I've shown you several examples of where we have reduced VAT to below 15%.
And I've also explained that it is the fact that we cannot reduce VAT to below 15% even if we wanted to that is the point that is being made.
I also explained that when Alistair Darling dropped VAT to 15% from 17.5% after the GFC, he actually wanted to drop it lower, but was unable to because EU rules. One of the key tools that a government can use to exercise national economic management is VAT....he wanted to reduce VAT to help increase spending in the economy....because jt was only a 2.5% drop, it had no effect on prices...a 5% drop would have.
You, unfortunately, seem to be unable to grasp any of this.
"The VAT rules are to stop countries distorting the market by playing with tax rates on individual products to favour domestic industries. However, under the new EU rules, scheduled for 2021, EU states will have the flexibility to apply reduced VAT rates on any products and services. There will be some broad rules to keep it manageable for businesses providing taxable supplies, including only five VAT rates in each state: One standard VAT rate Two rates between the standard rate and 5% One rate between the reduced rates and 0% One rate of 0%. There will be some prohibited supplies which must be charged at the standard rate, including alcohol, gambling, tobacco, petrol and diesel, weapons, and some household appliances. It took some time and negotiation, but that's how democracy works. Happy? | |||
"see.... i thought someone would mention the "tampon tax"..... thanks for indulging me JandS... so i assume you missed this juicy nugget..... "On the 3rd October 2018, new EU VAT rules that will allow the UK to stop taxing sanitary products were approved by the European Parliament" Taaaaaa Daaaaaaaaa..........
i thank you!!!!!! and who says the european parliament doesn't listen to concerns eh???
so... lets go back to my original question....
is there ANY product that the government are planning to reduce to zero that isn't zero at this point in time!!!
"On your last point it doesn't matter if the government are planning to reduce any products to zero at this point in time, it's a matter of principle that we can't reduce VAT below levels set by the EU, now or in the future, if we wanted to while we remain a member of the EU. | |||
"see.... i thought someone would mention the "tampon tax"..... thanks for indulging me JandS... so i assume you missed this juicy nugget..... "On the 3rd October 2018, new EU VAT rules that will allow the UK to stop taxing sanitary products were approved by the European Parliament" Taaaaaa Daaaaaaaaa..........
i thank you!!!!!! and who says the european parliament doesn't listen to concerns eh???
so... lets go back to my original question....
is there ANY product that the government are planning to reduce to zero that isn't zero at this point in time!!!
Why did it take the EU so long to do it though and only allowed it on 3rd October, just 3 months ago? Call me cynical but maybe the EU allowed it to try to help remainers like you score points. The EU know we're leaving and have known we're leaving for the last 2 years, it's a pretty pointless exercise allowing it now we're leaving in 2 1/2 months in March. "They didn't just knock it together did they?
The process started years ago.
Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy | |||
"see.... i thought someone would mention the "tampon tax"..... thanks for indulging me JandS... so i assume you missed this juicy nugget..... "On the 3rd October 2018, new EU VAT rules that will allow the UK to stop taxing sanitary products were approved by the European Parliament" Taaaaaa Daaaaaaaaa..........
i thank you!!!!!! and who says the european parliament doesn't listen to concerns eh???
so... lets go back to my original question....
is there ANY product that the government are planning to reduce to zero that isn't zero at this point in time!!!
On your last point it doesn't matter if the government are planning to reduce any products to zero at this point in time, it's a matter of principle that we can't reduce VAT below levels set by the EU, now or in the future, if we wanted to while we remain a member of the EU. "What principle ? Everyone else has ignored it, but what principle is vat an example of? It is not right we can’t ..... Complete without honing in on tax or Vat. | |||
"see.... i thought someone would mention the "tampon tax"..... thanks for indulging me JandS... so i assume you missed this juicy nugget..... "On the 3rd October 2018, new EU VAT rules that will allow the UK to stop taxing sanitary products were approved by the European Parliament" Taaaaaa Daaaaaaaaa..........
i thank you!!!!!! and who says the european parliament doesn't listen to concerns eh???
so... lets go back to my original question....
is there ANY product that the government are planning to reduce to zero that isn't zero at this point in time!!!
On your last point it doesn't matter if the government are planning to reduce any products to zero at this point in time, it's a matter of principle that we can't reduce VAT below levels set by the EU, now or in the future, if we wanted to while we remain a member of the EU. "then maybe... and here is a radical thought.... you should lobby your own government to drop the standard rate of VAT from 20% to 15% first......
see....its hard for you to have a conversation about getting it to zero, when A) there is no product the government want to make zero that isn't going to be zero... and B) if the government is charging people 33% more in VAT than what the minimum is!!!
but thanks for the hypothetical conversation... I am sure you'll be campaigning for unicorns next!!! | |||
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"The only way out of this is a cross-party consensus. Unfortunately, Westminster is set up to be adversarial. Mrs May cannot find consensus in her own party, so I doubt she has the skills. Step forward some able back-benchers who can put together the coalition needed. I think most folk would prefer that to another election. I’m with Brenda from Bristol on that one." An election won't fix it. Parties are also split. | |||
"The only way out of this is a cross-party consensus. Unfortunately, Westminster is set up to be adversarial. Mrs May cannot find consensus in her own party, so I doubt she has the skills. Step forward some able back-benchers who can put together the coalition needed. I think most folk would prefer that to another election. I’m with Brenda from Bristol on that one. An election won't fix it. Parties are also split." An election could fix it - but only if the parties had distinct policies that were crystal clear on what they would do upon EU membership. As tough as it may be, hearing more oppositional opinion on the subject, a general election could then provide a fixed direction, which we don't have at present. It's a somewhat sobering concept, as the strategy of each party could be very much against what many want (though millions are currently unhappy with the status quo). Would May step down, as she's talked about not leading them at the next election? Which freak from her party would take over  | |||
" On your last point it doesn't matter if the government are planning to reduce any products to zero at this point in time, it's a matter of principle that we can't reduce VAT below levels set by the EU, now or in the future, if we wanted to while we remain a member of the EU. " Now that's where you're wrong word for word.... "it's a matter of principle that we can't reduce VAT below levels set by the EU" Standard rate of VAT that affects the massive majority of products in the UK is set at 5% over the minimum set by the EU. Its a silly, pointless wrong argument | |||
"Bearing in mind that The Referendum was in 2016 , and the promise of The Referendum was in the 2015 Conservative Manifesto and it has taken the very same Conservative Party until next Tuesday to bring a meaningful vote to Parliament on their Plan A , ,,, I don't hold out much hope for Plan B to be ready 3 days later" . So Plan " B" appears to be Plan "A" but some nurses , doctors , farm workers , plumbers , care workers , who have made their homes here as our neighbours won't have to pay £65 to stay in their home ( but , will have to register ) | |||
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"So plan B is basically vote on plan A again! Nothing has changed. It also seems some what hypocritical that Parliament gets to vote on May's plan as many times as the Government wants until it gets the result it wants, even though nothing has changed, but the people don't get to vote on the plan even once, even though everything has changed since the referendum gave the Govetment its original mandate to negotiate the plan in the first place. " Good point! | |||
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"May will have to return to parliament after 3 working days, if her long delayed vote fails next week, with a fall back proposal. How effective is this plan B going to be, based on the shambles of what the conservative party has spent over 2 and a half years trying to agree on and plan? Does an incredible secret plan B exist? Cancel Article 50, then resubmit on April 1st, for a laugh " Let’s just skip to plan F. | |||
