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Finally - Political Leadership
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute."
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee..... |
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee....."
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
"
Who do you support now? |
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
Who do you support now?"
At the moment no one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
Who do you support now?
At the moment no one."
Think a lot are in that boat. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
"
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Havent seen the news whats she done?"
She has been instrumental in drafting and driving an amendment to the finance bill that will tie the Governments hands if they allow the country to crash out of the EU without a withdrawal deal.
It is great really. Parliament taking back controlvwith a Bill drafted and driven by an Opposition backbencher. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"What's she said?"
Just watch her (rather watch Theresa May) when she has the opportunity to question Theresa May.
See above for what she has done today, but in general she is Theresa May’s worst nightmare - when it should actually be Corbyn putting the fear of God into May. |
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be."
Many grass roots Labour supporters see her as a Blairite or a red Tory. You only have to read the likes of WillWill's posts on here to see that. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be.
Many grass roots Labour supporters see her as a Blairite or a red Tory. You only have to read the likes of WillWill's posts on here to see that. "
If grass roots Labour supporters are happy to see the Conservatives in power for another term - that is their choice.
I actually think that people are starting to realise that there are highly competent Labour MP’s who are far more capable than Jeremy Corbyn in providing a credible alternative.
I voted Labour twice (for Tony Blair) but would say naturally I am a middle of the road Conservative. Labour have no chance with Corbyn and everyone knows that. FFS the Conservatives are still ahead in the spills and they are the worst Government in living memory. |
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be.
Many grass roots Labour supporters see her as a Blairite or a red Tory. You only have to read the likes of WillWill's posts on here to see that.
If grass roots Labour supporters are happy to see the Conservatives in power for another term - that is their choice.
I actually think that people are starting to realise that there are highly competent Labour MP’s who are far more capable than Jeremy Corbyn in providing a credible alternative.
I voted Labour twice (for Tony Blair) but would say naturally I am a middle of the road Conservative. Labour have no chance with Corbyn and everyone knows that. FFS the Conservatives are still ahead in the spills and they are the worst Government in living memory."
did you ever think in your lifetime you would see the worst government in living history and still be ahead in polls how can that happen You couldn’t make it up I’m labour but just can’t vote for them until he as gone given the choice I’d choose Diane Abbott over him did I just type that wtf |
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I am grateful for any politicians who work to prevent a certain catastrophe if the UK left the EU without a deal at the end of March 18. That is putting country and your constituents first.
She's made a fantastic leap here, pondering other amendments that should follow on other bills. The conservatives are generally making it ever more clear how divided by extremists within their ranks they actually are. May should be pushed to cancel Article 50, if they cannot agree on their deal, with a no deal exit made unacceptable and impossible by the sovereignty of parliament - funnily enough it's been there all along.  |
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be.
Many grass roots Labour supporters see her as a Blairite or a red Tory. You only have to read the likes of WillWill's posts on here to see that.
If grass roots Labour supporters are happy to see the Conservatives in power for another term - that is their choice.
I actually think that people are starting to realise that there are highly competent Labour MP’s who are far more capable than Jeremy Corbyn in providing a credible alternative.
I voted Labour twice (for Tony Blair) but would say naturally I am a middle of the road Conservative. Labour have no chance with Corbyn and everyone knows that. FFS the Conservatives are still ahead in the spills and they are the worst Government in living memory. did you ever think in your lifetime you would see the worst government in living history and still be ahead in polls how can that happen You couldn’t make it up I’m labour but just can’t vote for them until he as gone given the choice I’d choose Diane Abbott over him did I just type that wtf "
Well Abbott might get you out of the fire but you'd still be in a frying pan.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
Yvette Cooper got the support of enough MPs (from all parties) to defeat the government , this HAD to be done by a back bencher , the tories where whipped to vote with their party , those who voted against ( I think there were about 20 ) would have found it incredibly difficult to do if the leader of the opposition , whoever he / she may be , had brought forward the exact same amendment |
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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago
on the hill NordWest of |
The interesting bit is that it was supported cross party but also by leavers and remainers. It seems that some mps have finally woken up and do what they're supposed to do namely act in the interest of the people and the country. There are more bills to come until the end of March and hopefully more similar amendments to them. Seems to be the last ressort to stop the uk being driven over the cliff. |
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"Yvette Cooper got the support of enough MPs (from all parties) to defeat the government , this HAD to be done by a back bencher , the tories where whipped to vote with their party , those who voted against ( I think there were about 20 ) would have found it incredibly difficult to do if the leader of the opposition , whoever he / she may be , had brought forward the exact same amendment "
 |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people "
No.
Secondary legislation or emergency legislation can still allow that.
Government delayed the vote and avoided any indicative votes to try and force through their deal.
This is the only way that Parliament can make it's intent known. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I’m not sure this is evidence of leadership, because it does not move us forward in any sense.
Parliament simply has made the practice of government more awkward if we end up in no-deal land.
To be opposed to no deal implies you are for a deal.
One deal is on the table, but these people don’t want that either.
What do they actually want? I do not know the answer. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i think that backbenchers are leading the fight against no deal... the next one of is the "3 day deadline" to present a "plan b" to stop the government from running down the clock to fall out in a no deal....
and this one is being brought by dominic greave....
but i have been impressed by a lot of backbenchers... heidi allen, sarah wooleston are also two examples of the fight.... |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"i think that backbenchers are leading the fight against no deal... the next one of is the "3 day deadline" to present a "plan b" to stop the government from running down the clock to fall out in a no deal....
and this one is being brought by dominic greave....
but i have been impressed by a lot of backbenchers... heidi allen, sarah wooleston are also two examples of the fight...."
A huge row is now going to ensue, as the Speaker has gone against convention, in allowing this further Grieve Amendment to be debated and voted on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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While not leadership it’s possibly the first time (some) leavers have been asked to stand behind no deal.
After all we’re told project feat isn’t lies. There’s no real down side.
And we’re told there’s no divorce bill so that’s 40bn saved.
So why be worried about not being able to raise additional revenue. What other costs could they be? Or what loss of revenue has there been? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"i think that backbenchers are leading the fight against no deal... the next one of is the "3 day deadline" to present a "plan b" to stop the government from running down the clock to fall out in a no deal....
and this one is being brought by dominic greave....
but i have been impressed by a lot of backbenchers... heidi allen, sarah wooleston are also two examples of the fight....
A huge row is now going to ensue, as the Speaker has gone against convention, in allowing this further Grieve Amendment to be debated and voted on. "
you are right... the tory taliban are doing their nut over this.... irony being that the motion can't be debated upon because it was but that way specially by the tory chief whip to in effect stiffly the whole 5 day vote...... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I’m not sure this is evidence of leadership, because it does not move us forward in any sense.
Parliament simply has made the practice of government more awkward if we end up in no-deal land.
To be opposed to no deal implies you are for a deal.
One deal is on the table, but these people don’t want that either.
What do they actually want? I do not know the answer."
Exactly i think what JC wants is a general election this is why he is opposed to everything he doesnt want a deal he doesnt want a no deal he wants an election,god knows why because i think the way he is leading his party they will lose heavily. |
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"Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people "
Yes, I don't see how this helps the country, everyone knows May won't get her plan voted through, so stuff like this is actually going to fuck the country up, it's just political point-scoring.
Whether or not individual mp's like or agree with it, the vote was to leave, they should now all be working towards a solution, not throwing a spanner in the works. |
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The goings on in Parliament are absolutely hilarious. Those who argued that it was only by leaving the EU would Parliament truly be sovereign are now whining and moaning because the Speaker has ruled on an amendment which is actually giving power to parliament. Apparently, they only want this sovereignty nonsense when it suits them...the charlatans and shysters of the ERG and the Cabinet are not covering themselves in glory |
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"Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people
Yes, I don't see how this helps the country, everyone knows May won't get her plan voted through, so stuff like this is actually going to fuck the country up, it's just political point-scoring.
Whether or not individual mp's like or agree with it, the vote was to leave, they should now all be working towards a solution, not throwing a spanner in the works."
Making parliament sovereign in the matter of Brexit isnt throwing a spanner in the works, it's about taking back control surely? |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people
Yes, I don't see how this helps the country, everyone knows May won't get her plan voted through, so stuff like this is actually going to fuck the country up, it's just political point-scoring.
Whether or not individual mp's like or agree with it, the vote was to leave, they should now all be working towards a solution, not throwing a spanner in the works."
That was the whole point of the amendment and is the whole point about the row that is ongoing right now.
Theresa May has not made any attempt whatsoever to get Brexit by consent and has regularly treated Parliament with disdain. What happened yesterday and what will happen today and more coming.. Is that Parliament is asseryting its Sovereignty in the face of a weak, divided and out of step Government.
Theresa May's deal will not get through next week and today's vote will see that May has only 3 days and not 21 to respond to the loss (having already wasted a full month). Yesterdays vote means that it will also be very difficult for May to now say - "My deal, or no deal"
This is actually Parliament working together to make sure that the country comes first. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people "
What does the bill say?
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"The goings on in Parliament are absolutely hilarious. Those who argued that it was only by leaving the EU would Parliament truly be sovereign are now whining and moaning because the Speaker has ruled on an amendment which is actually giving power to parliament. Apparently, they only want this sovereignty nonsense when it suits them...the charlatans and shysters of the ERG and the Cabinet are not covering themselves in glory"
No, what sone members of parliament are 'moaning' about it that The speaker John Bercow has broken all previous precedent by allowing this ammendment. It's being argued that he is now setting dangerous precedent for future votes on a range of matters, other than Brexit. A Conservative MP also pointed out the ammendment is ineffective (on a technicality of wording) because it doesn't state which minister must address within 3 days, and so could be left on the statute book indefinitely. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)"
Yep covers it played right into the eu,s hands no threat of a no deal leave (they want the money) so no concessions i cant see how this is helping our country at all just fucking things up further.The question people voted on was stay or leave.For fuck sake get on with it. |
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"I’m not sure this is evidence of leadership, because it does not move us forward in any sense.
Parliament simply has made the practice of government more awkward if we end up in no-deal land.
To be opposed to no deal implies you are for a deal.
One deal is on the table, but these people don’t want that either.
What do they actually want? I do not know the answer.Exactly i think what JC wants is a general election this is why he is opposed to everything he doesnt want a deal he doesnt want a no deal he wants an election,god knows why because i think the way he is leading his party they will lose heavily."
Tend to agree, can see why any party in opposition would sit back and observe as the governing party tear themselves apart in a row that could split them..
But he has to present an alternative to the status quo lest people just look and think we'll what does his party want?
It's a shambolic period in our governance.. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)"
Talk of civil unrest only reinforces the argument that those advocating it did not really know what they were voting for in the referendum.
It is simply not possible to vote to take something back that was never lost in the first place. The EU debate is pure economics and not really any more than that. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I’m not sure this is evidence of leadership, because it does not move us forward in any sense.
Parliament simply has made the practice of government more awkward if we end up in no-deal land.
To be opposed to no deal implies you are for a deal.
One deal is on the table, but these people don’t want that either.
What do they actually want? I do not know the answer.Exactly i think what JC wants is a general election this is why he is opposed to everything he doesnt want a deal he doesnt want a no deal he wants an election,god knows why because i think the way he is leading his party they will lose heavily.
Tend to agree, can see why any party in opposition would sit back and observe as the governing party tear themselves apart in a row that could split them..
But he has to present an alternative to the status quo lest people just look and think we'll what does his party want?
It's a shambolic period in our governance.. "
To be honest i think they are not saying anything as they are also in the same turmoil with their party but by keeping quiet it doesnt come to light. |
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"Voted to tie the hands of the government so if things got tits up with a no deal, the government won't be able to pump money into the economy to ease it.
Dip sticks just so they can say I told you so, and sod the people "
The vote yesterday doesn't actually stop a no deal Brexit happening though. It's still UK law as part of the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the commons that We will leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal. The No Deal planning is happening before we leave and the money allocated for no deal has already been allocated and issued before we leave. Yesterday's vote also doesn't tie the hands of other bodies like the bank of England, who are separate to Parliament, and it's the bank of England who issue things like interest rates or quantative easing, not Parliament. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Mrs May: “Hello, Jeremy? I have a plan. Vote for my deal and, as soon as we move into the transition period, I will put in motion a Conservative leadership election followed by a General Election.” |
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"I’m not sure this is evidence of leadership, because it does not move us forward in any sense.
Parliament simply has made the practice of government more awkward if we end up in no-deal land.
To be opposed to no deal implies you are for a deal.
One deal is on the table, but these people don’t want that either.
What do they actually want? I do not know the answer.Exactly i think what JC wants is a general election this is why he is opposed to everything he doesnt want a deal he doesnt want a no deal he wants an election,god knows why because i think the way he is leading his party they will lose heavily.
Tend to agree, can see why any party in opposition would sit back and observe as the governing party tear themselves apart in a row that could split them..
But he has to present an alternative to the status quo lest people just look and think we'll what does his party want?
It's a shambolic period in our governance.. To be honest i think they are not saying anything as they are also in the same turmoil with their party but by keeping quiet it doesnt come to light."
True..
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)Yep covers it played right into the eu,s hands no threat of a no deal leave (they want the money) so no concessions i cant see how this is helping our country at all just fucking things up further.The question people voted on was stay or leave.For fuck sake get on with it."
It may have escaped your attention, but Theresa May and her team of incompetent cohorts have ROYALLY fucked this up.
Michel Barnier gave the UK its options 14 months ago in a graphic that was based on Theresa May's self-appointed "red lines" - all the rest is just meaningless bluster.
There was a very effective way to deal with this and it should have started with a plan. |
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"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)"
Actually Theresa May could just come back in 3 days and say her plan B is to go back to Brussels to seek more concessions. It really is an idiotic ammendment. |
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"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)Yep covers it played right into the eu,s hands no threat of a no deal leave (they want the money) so no concessions i cant see how this is helping our country at all just fucking things up further.The question people voted on was stay or leave.For fuck sake get on with it.
It may have escaped your attention, but Theresa May and her team of incompetent cohorts have ROYALLY fucked this up.
Michel Barnier gave the UK its options 14 months ago in a graphic that was based on Theresa May's self-appointed "red lines" - all the rest is just meaningless bluster.
There was a very effective way to deal with this and it should have started with a plan."
A plan thought through, funding to implement it and time to do so..
But she gave in to the hard liners who funny enough have all jumped ship and are drilling more holes in it.. |
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"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)
Actually Theresa May could just come back in 3 days and say her plan B is to go back to Brussels to seek more concessions. It really is an idiotic ammendment. "
Article 50 put back then.. |
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"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)
Actually Theresa May could just come back in 3 days and say her plan B is to go back to Brussels to seek more concessions. It really is an idiotic ammendment.
Article 50 put back then.. "
No it doesn't have to be put back. There is nothing in the ammendment about delaying article 50. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"So.....
May's deal gets voted down next Tuesday.
Three days for her to come back to the house.
Knowing this, the EU will not give any further ground.
Mrs May has to concede that there cannot and will not be "a no deal". Parliament won't allow it.
The UK has to either ask the EU to suspend Article 50 or rescind Article 50 full stop.
The EU may not like a suspension of Article 50, as it solves nothing. They would prefer us to tear it up completely.
So....we either scrap Brexit, go for a second referendum or a General Election.
Think that about covers it. (I'm not even contemplating any sort of civil unrest!)
Actually Theresa May could just come back in 3 days and say her plan B is to go back to Brussels to seek more concessions. It really is an idiotic ammendment. "
Not so, because in the original bill MP's have to be given a vote within 7 days of the PM's response and so "going back to the EU" is not going to be an acceptable response.
Friday 18th or Monday 21st January, Theresa May will have to make a very big political statement and within 7 days of that all bet's are probably off right now as to what might happen then.
It is entirely possible for any of the following to happen.
1) Withdrawal Agreement abandoned (no deal consequence)
2) General Election called.
3) Extend A50
4) Revoke A50
5) Coalition Govt of National Emergency formed |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?"
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?"
If there is a clear mandate to "leave", then the MPs would have to vote through the deal.
If it's "remain", then the hardcore of the 17.4 million original leave voters will be pissed off. The question is, how many now resemble the hardcore? |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?"
Then hopefully this time the mandate will be enacted with a degree of responsibility.
1) Enact a Royal Commission to undertake impact assessments on all probable scenario's
2) A separate and cross-party Brexit committee to create a consensual future pathway
3) Trigger A50 when a consensus and plan has been secured.
4) Cross party Brexit committee solely responsible for withdrawal and future trade negotiations.
The reality though is that it probably would not be the same result.
There is an expression in the military that complacency kills. Fortunately, in the political world, the consequences of complacency are not that terminal but people do tend to learn their lesson.
That kind of shock result from June 2016 is probably unlikely to be repeated if the referendum is prepared and debated in the way that it should have been back then and many, many complacent Remain (non)voters will not make the same mistake twice. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal. "
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
|
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
"
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal. |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
Then hopefully this time the mandate will be enacted with a degree of responsibility.
1) Enact a Royal Commission to undertake impact assessments on all probable scenario's
2) A separate and cross-party Brexit committee to create a consensual future pathway
3) Trigger A50 when a consensus and plan has been secured.
4) Cross party Brexit committee solely responsible for withdrawal and future trade negotiations.
The reality though is that it probably would not be the same result.
There is an expression in the military that complacency kills. Fortunately, in the political world, the consequences of complacency are not that terminal but people do tend to learn their lesson.
That kind of shock result from June 2016 is probably unlikely to be repeated if the referendum is prepared and debated in the way that it should have been back then and many, many complacent Remain (non)voters will not make the same mistake twice."
Was just listening to polling guru Professor John Curtis on BBC news. He was saying there is still no clear understanding that remain would win a 2nd referendum. There is no clear majority to have a 2nd referendum in the first place, the question for a 2nd referendum is not clear, and 3 options; remain, leave with May's deal, leave with no deal, are spilt quite evenly 3 ways. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The goings on in Parliament are absolutely hilarious. Those who argued that it was only by leaving the EU would Parliament truly be sovereign are now whining and moaning because the Speaker has ruled on an amendment which is actually giving power to parliament. Apparently, they only want this sovereignty nonsense when it suits them...the charlatans and shysters of the ERG and the Cabinet are not covering themselves in glory
No, what sone members of parliament are 'moaning' about it that The speaker John Bercow has broken all previous precedent by allowing this ammendment. It's being argued that he is now setting dangerous precedent for future votes on a range of matters, other than Brexit. A Conservative MP also pointed out the ammendment is ineffective (on a technicality of wording) because it doesn't state which minister must address within 3 days, and so could be left on the statute book indefinitely."
Leaving an international treaty is also unprecedented, so I don't really see how the Speaker can follow any existing procedure.
Can you?
As I said, the amendment is fir Parliament to choice it's opinion on "no deal" as government has tried to bounce it into May's position whilst not giving it any opportunity to come to a consensus with open debate.
Somewhat hilariously the ultra-Brexiteers will most likely push us into a second referendum and remain because nobody will vote to go through this crap again.
A general election won't solve this unless Corbyn is forced by the majority of his MPs, but also his powerbase in the Unions, party membership and particularly Momentum to a Referendum position.
I am more than a little concerned about Corbyn as PM and will resent the entire Brexit fiasco even more forcing me into that choice. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal. "
He can. Government will fold and bring in legislation.
You could try and explain why a dysfunctional government would pull the country into a situation that nobody except the most extreme Brexiteer wants but I don't think that you can.
You have always seemed unable to empathise so I am certain that you will once again repeat what you think and somehow believe that it is what most people who voted to leave think. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
The legal default position is leave on the 29th march agreement or no agreement.If artical 50 was delayed every country in the EU has to agree to it so there is a chance that wont work and to revoke artical 50 means we stay with (i think) no chance of ever leaving again. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
Then hopefully this time the mandate will be enacted with a degree of responsibility.
1) Enact a Royal Commission to undertake impact assessments on all probable scenario's
2) A separate and cross-party Brexit committee to create a consensual future pathway
3) Trigger A50 when a consensus and plan has been secured.
4) Cross party Brexit committee solely responsible for withdrawal and future trade negotiations.
The reality though is that it probably would not be the same result.
There is an expression in the military that complacency kills. Fortunately, in the political world, the consequences of complacency are not that terminal but people do tend to learn their lesson.
That kind of shock result from June 2016 is probably unlikely to be repeated if the referendum is prepared and debated in the way that it should have been back then and many, many complacent Remain (non)voters will not make the same mistake twice.
Was just listening to polling guru Professor John Curtis on BBC news. He was saying there is still no clear understanding that remain would win a 2nd referendum. There is no clear majority to have a 2nd referendum in the first place, the question for a 2nd referendum is not clear, and 3 options; remain, leave with May's deal, leave with no deal, are spilt quite evenly 3 ways. "
Your hypocrisy is always amusing.
Claiming one day that polls are rubbish, then the next day using polling results to back your position, then using some data and ignoring other data in the same poll and now quoting a "polling guru" to debunk polling data  |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal. "
A statute can be used to stop the original statute. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
From the little I've heard about the Finance bill vote a hard BREXIT is still a valid option but the Government would now need parliament approval for major tax changes, so if revenue drops through the floor because of a no deal they can't tax the shit out of us as much to pay for it without Parliament's approval. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
Then hopefully this time the mandate will be enacted with a degree of responsibility.
1) Enact a Royal Commission to undertake impact assessments on all probable scenario's
2) A separate and cross-party Brexit committee to create a consensual future pathway
3) Trigger A50 when a consensus and plan has been secured.
4) Cross party Brexit committee solely responsible for withdrawal and future trade negotiations.
The reality though is that it probably would not be the same result.
There is an expression in the military that complacency kills. Fortunately, in the political world, the consequences of complacency are not that terminal but people do tend to learn their lesson.
That kind of shock result from June 2016 is probably unlikely to be repeated if the referendum is prepared and debated in the way that it should have been back then and many, many complacent Remain (non)voters will not make the same mistake twice.
Was just listening to polling guru Professor John Curtis on BBC news. He was saying there is still no clear understanding that remain would win a 2nd referendum. There is no clear majority to have a 2nd referendum in the first place, the question for a 2nd referendum is not clear, and 3 options; remain, leave with May's deal, leave with no deal, are spilt quite evenly 3 ways.
Your hypocrisy is always amusing.
Claiming one day that polls are rubbish, then the next day using polling results to back your position, then using some data and ignoring other data in the same poll and now quoting a "polling guru" to debunk polling data "
That said, the "UK in a Changing Europe" website is not bad.
Thank you.
You should take a look at it. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
When the May deal is voted down next week, Labour will surely go for the "no confidence" motion.
In these extraordinary times, would the ERG support Labour? If they did, then a GE is inevitable and the issue goes back to the electorate again |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"We are fast becoming the laughing stock of Europe...To be honest when im in my place in spain watching the news its hardly ever mentioned."
Well when we are in OUR place in Spain it is mentioned often....funny eh? |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
He can. Government will fold and bring in legislation.
You could try and explain why a dysfunctional government would pull the country into a situation that nobody except the most extreme Brexiteer wants but I don't think that you can.
You have always seemed unable to empathise so I am certain that you will once again repeat what you think and somehow believe that it is what most people who voted to leave think."
The government won't fold. You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think it will. When push comes to shove no Tory will vote against the government if Corbyn calls a vote of no confidence. The DUP will also back the government in that scenario to stop Corbyn getting into power. Even if the government did fold and Corbyn got into number 10, then Corbyn is still committed to leaving the EU so we still get Brexit.
Leaving with no deal is not an extreme position (only in your own head), leaving with a managed no deal to ensure planes continue to fly and with which we trade with the EU on WTO rules is not extreme, funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
", leaving with a managed no deal to ensure planes continue to fly and with which we trade with the EU on WTO rules is not extreme, funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU. "
But the humongous white elephant in the room is that the rest of the world have not been entwining their entire economy / manufacturing base / supply chains with links like we have with the EU so simply trading on WTO for the rest of the world is quite a simple affair. |
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"The legal default position is leave on the 29th march agreement or no agreement.If artical 50 was delayed every country in the EU has to agree to it so there is a chance that wont work and to revoke artical 50 means we stay with (i think) no chance of ever leaving again."
They do and that would take time if they even all agree to it which raises the possible revoking of the whole thing rather than fall out on a no deal..
The change in language from Peter bone and other hard line euro sceptics from no deal to some blobal trading gobbledegook is a bit telling, they know there is no appetite for a no deal so are desparate to rebrand it.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""No deal" and "Managed no deal" are exactly the same thing....it's all sound bites.
Not according to the more pedantic remoaners on here it isn't. "
So why do you add the managed then? If it's not you that is differentiating!! |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal.
A statute can be used to stop the original statute."
That would require primary legislation, and as Tory MP Andrew Bridgen just said on BBC news, primary legislation can only happen if it's put forward by the Prime minister and the government. The Prime minister and the government won't put forward the primary legislation remainers want to stop no deal. If the Prime minister is committed to leaving the EU on 29th March, which she said she is, then that primary legislation won't happen and we will leave on 29th March either with or without a deal. |
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""No deal" and "Managed no deal" are exactly the same thing....it's all sound bites.
Not according to the more pedantic remoaners on here it isn't.
So why do you add the managed then? If it's not you that is differentiating!!"
Because if I'd just said "no deal" remoaning pedants like you would come along and say that means planes would be grounded, blah, blah, blah.
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal.
A statute can be used to stop the original statute.
That would require primary legislation, and as Tory MP Andrew Bridgen just said on BBC news, primary legislation can only happen if it's put forward by the Prime minister and the government. The Prime minister and the government won't put forward the primary legislation remainers want to stop no deal. If the Prime minister is committed to leaving the EU on 29th March, which she said she is, then that primary legislation won't happen and we will leave on 29th March either with or without a deal. "
Yep true. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Havent seen the news whats she done?
She has been instrumental in drafting and driving an amendment to the finance bill that will tie the Governments hands if they allow the country to crash out of the EU without a withdrawal deal.
It is great really. Parliament taking back controlvwith a Bill drafted and driven by an Opposition backbencher."
She has done nothing,if we do not have a deal we leave without one and nobody can stop it,this is a publicity stunt but fooling a lot of you I see |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules. "
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
|
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"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
"
That's why it has "managed" added on the front. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front. "
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
"
BOTH sides need agreements and always did, anyone who thought the world would stop on the 29 March was daft, just because many remainers said planes wouldnt fly etc etc etc and have been proved wrong like virtually all project fear bollocks they now are spinning like a top |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
BOTH sides need agreements and always did, anyone who thought the world would stop on the 29 March was daft, just because many remainers said planes wouldnt fly etc etc etc and have been proved wrong like virtually all project fear bollocks they now are spinning like a top "
You just contradicted yourself.
We need agreements for things to continue as you are.
What do those agreements say about the British border in Ireland?
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal."
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
|
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
He can. Government will fold and bring in legislation.
You could try and explain why a dysfunctional government would pull the country into a situation that nobody except the most extreme Brexiteer wants but I don't think that you can.
You have always seemed unable to empathise so I am certain that you will once again repeat what you think and somehow believe that it is what most people who voted to leave think.
The government won't fold. You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think it will. When push comes to shove no Tory will vote against the government if Corbyn calls a vote of no confidence. The DUP will also back the government in that scenario to stop Corbyn getting into power. Even if the government did fold and Corbyn got into number 10, then Corbyn is still committed to leaving the EU so we still get Brexit.
Leaving with no deal is not an extreme position (only in your own head), leaving with a managed no deal to ensure planes continue to fly and with which we trade with the EU on WTO rules is not extreme, funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU. "
So you trust Theresa May at her word again?
Flip, flop. Flip, flop.
You and her.
Naturally you didn't answer the actual question. What benefit does the government gain politically or substantively from a no deal Brexit?
Most of the rest of the world does not vote with the EU on WTO terms.
Mist of the rest of the world tries pretty damned hard not to trade on WTO terms at all. Why do you think anybody dies deals at all if it's all fine?
I suggest you do some research and see how many countries trade exclusively on WTO terms at all let alone with the EU.
Why not post your findings here?
Then I suggest you find out which countries have objected to our putative WTO schedule.
Why not post your findings here?
Finally I suggest you find out if the Supreme Court of the UK has the final say on a trade dispute under the WTO.
Why not post your findings here?  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal."
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
", leaving with a managed no deal to ensure planes continue to fly and with which we trade with the EU on WTO rules is not extreme, funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU.
But the humongous white elephant in the room is that the rest of the world have not been entwining their entire economy / manufacturing base / supply chains with links like we have with the EU so simply trading on WTO for the rest of the world is quite a simple affair."
You usually research harder.
Most of the rest of the world does not trade on WTO terms.
North America has very integrated supply chains between the three countries.
The pharmaceutical industry passes huge amounts of work through India.
China is so intimately enmeshed with the USA that Trump's trade war is increasing the trade deficit.
Most of the rest of the world tries pretty damned hard not to trade on WTO terms at all. Why do you think anybody does deals if it's all fine?
How many countries trade exclusively on WTO terms at all let alone with the EU.
Why not post your findings here?
Then I suggest you find out which countries have objected to our putative WTO schedule.
Why not post your findings here?
|
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"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal."
yep, same with the continuation of supply of medicine. Remoaners project fear cards are falling over like Domino's. |
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"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
"
One of the biggest airlines operating in the UK is Ryanair. A majority of Ryanair flights are UK flights and will be able to carry on as normal, including flying between EU destinations as they are registered as a company in Republic of Ireland. |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal.
A statute can be used to stop the original statute.
That would require primary legislation, and as Tory MP Andrew Bridgen just said on BBC news, primary legislation can only happen if it's put forward by the Prime minister and the government. The Prime minister and the government won't put forward the primary legislation remainers want to stop no deal. If the Prime minister is committed to leaving the EU on 29th March, which she said she is, then that primary legislation won't happen and we will leave on 29th March either with or without a deal. "
Your being naive if you think they won't introduce a bill to prevent no deal or accept an amendment to prevent it, she and the Government have to say that at this time prior to her vote..
For May to say she will do is to admit before the vote publically that she knows her plan is dogdirt..
There is no way this or a labour government would allow no deal, there never was.. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
yep, same with the continuation of supply of medicine. Remoaners project fear cards are falling over like Domino's. "
Not really. Only in Express and Mail land.
Everything can be made to work if you spend enough time, money and effort.
Every imaginary penny that we "save" will be spent many times over, all the trade and international influence are lost. Our reputation as a safe and serious country is already shot to
pieces.
In the meantime the country that we live in remains neglected as we put all of our time and energy into replicating what is done already with economies of scale thrown in.
One day years in the future, a day which you cannot specify, we will have clawed our way back to where we are right now.
Then we can start our great leap forward having lost a decade knobbing around  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
"
Planes flying between 2 EU countries doesnt really bother me if im in spain and want to go to italy i will use a Eu airline,i cant really see where this affects the majority of brits. |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
He can. Government will fold and bring in legislation.
You could try and explain why a dysfunctional government would pull the country into a situation that nobody except the most extreme Brexiteer wants but I don't think that you can.
You have always seemed unable to empathise so I am certain that you will once again repeat what you think and somehow believe that it is what most people who voted to leave think.
The government won't fold. You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think it will. When push comes to shove no Tory will vote against the government if Corbyn calls a vote of no confidence. The DUP will also back the government in that scenario to stop Corbyn getting into power. Even if the government did fold and Corbyn got into number 10, then Corbyn is still committed to leaving the EU so we still get Brexit.
Leaving with no deal is not an extreme position (only in your own head), leaving with a managed no deal to ensure planes continue to fly and with which we trade with the EU on WTO rules is not extreme, funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU.
So you trust Theresa May at her word again?
Flip, flop. Flip, flop.
You and her.
Naturally you didn't answer the actual question. What benefit does the government gain politically or substantively from a no deal Brexit?
Most of the rest of the world does not vote with the EU on WTO terms.
Mist of the rest of the world tries pretty damned hard not to trade on WTO terms at all. Why do you think anybody dies deals at all if it's all fine?
I suggest you do some research and see how many countries trade exclusively on WTO terms at all let alone with the EU.
Why not post your findings here?
Then I suggest you find out which countries have objected to our putative WTO schedule.
Why not post your findings here?
Finally I suggest you find out if the Supreme Court of the UK has the final say on a trade dispute under the WTO.
Why not post your findings here? "
On your first point it would be politically damaging for the government to remain in the EU, as the country voted Leave, and the government got into power at the general election on a manifesto promise to leave the EU, leave the single market and leave the customs union. If the government delivers a no deal brexit, that delivers on the EU referendum result, and also fulfills the Conservative party manifesto promises at the general election to leave the EU, leave the single market and leave the customs union.
On your 2nd point, some of the largest economies in the world such as USA and China trade with the EU on WTO rules, USA and China don't have trade deals with the EU.
It doesn't matter which countries oppose our WTO tariff schedule as WTO rules give us a 10 year exemption from tariffs, while negotiating a free trade deal with the EU, which would happen in the event of UK leaving with no deal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
"
Just another hypocritical MP, not the saviour of us all |
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"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?"
We do have a say in it actually. The EU needs a deal on aviation with us to access our airspace. We are in control of who we allow or don't allow into our airspace.
We can arbitrarily change or terminate who we allow into our airspace. |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal.
A statute can be used to stop the original statute.
That would require primary legislation, and as Tory MP Andrew Bridgen just said on BBC news, primary legislation can only happen if it's put forward by the Prime minister and the government. The Prime minister and the government won't put forward the primary legislation remainers want to stop no deal. If the Prime minister is committed to leaving the EU on 29th March, which she said she is, then that primary legislation won't happen and we will leave on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Your being naive if you think they won't introduce a bill to prevent no deal or accept an amendment to prevent it, she and the Government have to say that at this time prior to her vote..
For May to say she will do is to admit before the vote publically that she knows her plan is dogdirt..
There is no way this or a labour government would allow no deal, there never was.. "
It's pretty clear from your post you don't understand parliamentary process. An ammendment on its own cannot stop no deal happening. As pointed out earlier only further legislation can overrule previous legislation. New legislation to stop a no deal would require primary legislation to be brought forward by the Prime minister and the government. That's not going to happen. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?"
The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
One of the biggest airlines operating in the UK is Ryanair. A majority of Ryanair flights are UK flights and will be able to carry on as normal, including flying between EU destinations as they are registered as a company in Republic of Ireland. "
If there is a deal.
Mr No Deal.
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
We do have a say in it actually. The EU needs a deal on aviation with us to access our airspace. We are in control of who we allow or don't allow into our airspace.
We can arbitrarily change or terminate who we allow into our airspace. "
The champion of No Deal thinks we need a, um, er, a deal.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation."
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal.
A statute can be used to stop the original statute.
That would require primary legislation, and as Tory MP Andrew Bridgen just said on BBC news, primary legislation can only happen if it's put forward by the Prime minister and the government. The Prime minister and the government won't put forward the primary legislation remainers want to stop no deal. If the Prime minister is committed to leaving the EU on 29th March, which she said she is, then that primary legislation won't happen and we will leave on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Your being naive if you think they won't introduce a bill to prevent no deal or accept an amendment to prevent it, she and the Government have to say that at this time prior to her vote..
For May to say she will do is to admit before the vote publically that she knows her plan is dogdirt..
There is no way this or a labour government would allow no deal, there never was..
It's pretty clear from your post you don't understand parliamentary process. An ammendment on its own cannot stop no deal happening. As pointed out earlier only further legislation can overrule previous legislation. New legislation to stop a no deal would require primary legislation to be brought forward by the Prime minister and the government. That's not going to happen. "
The only thing that's not going to happen however it is done is no deal..
|
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? "
I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation."
Law, insurance, certification and liability.
Not covered.
Why don't you have a read? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying. "
We don’t know either. But while it may be identical on day 1, how does a third party control for ongoing oversight. Especially if there is no recognised authority. It’s this piece that is the crux of “no deal=flights stop”. The EUs regulator is unchanged so has international recognition. The UK would only be the one which is new. I’d imagine there would be serious legal challenge by EU airlines if they were denied airspace despite nothing at all changing from their side. It’s conplictaed but this is why I have no confidence when non professionals say it will all be okay... |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying. "
The UK hasn't issued certificates for decades - that's what the European aviation safety agency does.
That's the issue.
Those certificates cease to have any legal validity from 11pm on March 29.
I believe the CAA is taking on the responsibility from the European agency.
There needs to be a legal framework in place for the new certificates to be valid in third countries.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
" funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU. "
oh dear oh dear... this is so not true it actually borders on being funny...
the EU has FTA's with 70 different countries now (canada and japan being the latest 2) are are in negoiations with the likes of australia, new zealand, the us and so on.......
can i take an example of a FTA.... any of you lovely people with Samsung phones.....
made, produces and built in south korea... which the EU has had an FTA with for about... ooooh..... 15 yrs!
your welcome........ |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying. "
How do you think that would sit with ICAO?
You bring the solutions of the playground.
Planes will fly but on the EU's terms.
The mire we stamp our feet the more foolish we make ourselves look.
We've spent two years having a very public tantrum. You're suggesting that we carry on in the same way?
I'm guessing you're next response will be:"...but the EU started it!" How does that sound when you say it out aloud? Grown-up? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying. "
If you start a sentence with "I don't know but..." then perhaps it's a sentence not to start? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying.
The UK hasn't issued certificates for decades - that's what the European aviation safety agency does.
That's the issue.
Those certificates cease to have any legal validity from 11pm on March 29.
I believe the CAA is taking on the responsibility from the European agency.
There needs to be a legal framework in place for the new certificates to be valid in third countries.
"
I really think to many people are trying to be to clever and just trying to find anything to justify a reason to remain.Take a chill pill it will all be ok they want to fly to the usa they want our tourists they want our trade. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?"
i don't know if easys question was answered as i am looking down to catch up on half the nonsense that has been said..... costa and centy having blinders today!
I can answer the question with regards certification....
the EU "propose" giving UK pilots and 12 month grace period on their pilots licenses....
with regards to safety maintainance certificates... UK certified records will be giving a 6 month extension period.
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I really think to many people are trying to be to clever and just trying to find anything to justify a reason to remain.Take a chill pill it will all be ok they want to fly to the usa they want our tourists they want our trade."
Clever?
It's a matter of law.
Airlines must operate within the law and, currently, the regulations of the single market for aviation.
The technical notices published by both the EU and the UK explain the legal implications for aviation of removing the UK from the existing Europe-wide legal framework.
(They are on the respective websites. They are not complicated.)
That's why it is a nonsense for anyone to say the UK should just walk away from the EU.
Arrangements need to be put in place to replace those that will severed on March 29.
The existing certificates issued to UK airlines, to UK aircraft, to UK pilots, cease to be valid.
The right in law of UK airlines to operate on EU routes also ceases.
Yaaay, an end to all that unnecessary red tape! Ooops, what happened to our aeroplanes?
When rhetoric meets reality.
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"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying.
The UK hasn't issued certificates for decades - that's what the European aviation safety agency does.
That's the issue.
Those certificates cease to have any legal validity from 11pm on March 29.
I believe the CAA is taking on the responsibility from the European agency.
There needs to be a legal framework in place for the new certificates to be valid in third countries.
I really think to many people are trying to be to clever and just trying to find anything to justify a reason to remain.Take a chill pill it will all be ok they want to fly to the usa they want our tourists they want our trade."
There really is no reasoning with the remoaning zealots on here fella. Best thing to do is ignore their shrill cries and scaremongering, and wait until flights continue to operate after Brexit, even in the event of no deal as the EU themselves have said will be the case. I'm looking forward to telling them "I told you so", after 29th March.  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Its a good day for politics today _abio "
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you! |
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"
One of the biggest airlines operating in the UK is Ryanair. A majority of Ryanair flights are UK flights and will be able to carry on as normal, including flying between EU destinations as they are registered as a company in Republic of Ireland.
If there is a deal.
Mr No Deal.
"
Managed no deal.  |
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"
We do have a say in it actually. The EU needs a deal on aviation with us to access our airspace. We are in control of who we allow or don't allow into our airspace.
We can arbitrarily change or terminate who we allow into our airspace.
The champion of No Deal thinks we need a, um, er, a deal.
"
The Champion of managed no deal, actually. |
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"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Parliament are quite adamant that a "no deal" scenario will not happen.
It's the default legal position. There is no way of getting around it. Where the EU's backstop relates to the Irish border, the UK's backstop is to leave without a deal.
A statute can be used to stop the original statute.
That would require primary legislation, and as Tory MP Andrew Bridgen just said on BBC news, primary legislation can only happen if it's put forward by the Prime minister and the government. The Prime minister and the government won't put forward the primary legislation remainers want to stop no deal. If the Prime minister is committed to leaving the EU on 29th March, which she said she is, then that primary legislation won't happen and we will leave on 29th March either with or without a deal.
Your being naive if you think they won't introduce a bill to prevent no deal or accept an amendment to prevent it, she and the Government have to say that at this time prior to her vote..
For May to say she will do is to admit before the vote publically that she knows her plan is dogdirt..
There is no way this or a labour government would allow no deal, there never was..
It's pretty clear from your post you don't understand parliamentary process. An ammendment on its own cannot stop no deal happening. As pointed out earlier only further legislation can overrule previous legislation. New legislation to stop a no deal would require primary legislation to be brought forward by the Prime minister and the government. That's not going to happen.
The only thing that's not going to happen however it is done is no deal..
"
I disagree. We shall find out on 29th March. Not long to go. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Hmmm.
Last two posts a little abrupt so I apologies.
Just saying it will be fine or repeating something from a newspaper that supports your own view is pointless.
Have you not noticed the sudden rush to dispel "Remoaner myths"?
It's nothing of the sort. It's just shouty headlines and empty articles trying to set a tone.
Take a step back and do some work yourself.
It gets very complicated very quickly. When it comes to the insurance and liability of an aeroplane companies get very nervous, very quickly.
Again, I'm sure it's possible, but you will probably find airline insurance and probably your travel insurance rising considerably. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Its a good day for politics today _abio
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you!"
can you elaborate on the half truths?,more than i think? dont think so if i want to go to europe i will fly there cant recall any time in my life where ive flown to a eu city got on the same plane and flew to another. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Hmmm.
Last two posts a little abrupt so I apologies.
Just saying it will be fine or repeating something from a newspaper that supports your own view is pointless.
Have you not noticed the sudden rush to dispel "Remoaner myths"?
It's nothing of the sort. It's just shouty headlines and empty articles trying to set a tone.
Take a step back and do some work yourself.
It gets very complicated very quickly. When it comes to the insurance and liability of an aeroplane companies get very nervous, very quickly.
Again, I'm sure it's possible, but you will probably find airline insurance and probably your travel insurance rising considerably."
So they charge a bit more so what before xmas i flew to malaga for £7.99 and guess what the flight back was the same price. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m probably one of the pedants, but for me “no deal” is where we will be if we were up falling back to the withdrawal act. Someone called it out back stop.
It is very clear what this is. It’s wriiten into law. Even if it’s less clear what the consequences are.
A managed no deal is anything which is above and beyond this. This included the EUs proposal on flights and involves us and the EU agreeing on stuff.
In practice if we end up looking like we will be using the backstop then there will likely be hastily made agreements. Fortunately for us the EU have been thinking about this. I’ve seen little evidence we have. That may be a negotiating tactic.
It is currently speculation what areas will be managed. And how they will be managed. Because by managed, we really mean negotiated. And we suck at that it seems. |
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"Hmmm.
Last two posts a little abrupt so I apologies.
Just saying it will be fine or repeating something from a newspaper that supports your own view is pointless.
Have you not noticed the sudden rush to dispel "Remoaner myths"?
It's nothing of the sort. It's just shouty headlines and empty articles trying to set a tone.
Take a step back and do some work yourself.
It gets very complicated very quickly. When it comes to the insurance and liability of an aeroplane companies get very nervous, very quickly.
Again, I'm sure it's possible, but you will probably find airline insurance and probably your travel insurance rising considerably."
I just priced up a little 4 night break in beni for 3 adults all inclusive in may was same price as last yr tbf I was surprised I was expecting some sort of increase it’s my own fault tho I shouldn’t of listened to Fabio lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hmmm.
Last two posts a little abrupt so I apologies.
Just saying it will be fine or repeating something from a newspaper that supports your own view is pointless.
Have you not noticed the sudden rush to dispel "Remoaner myths"?
It's nothing of the sort. It's just shouty headlines and empty articles trying to set a tone.
Take a step back and do some work yourself.
It gets very complicated very quickly. When it comes to the insurance and liability of an aeroplane companies get very nervous, very quickly.
Again, I'm sure it's possible, but you will probably find airline insurance and probably your travel insurance rising considerably. I just priced up a little 4 night break in beni for 3 adults all inclusive in may was same price as last yr tbf I was surprised I was expecting some sort of increase it’s my own fault tho I shouldn’t of listened to Fabio lol "
Nice who you flying with ? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Hmmm.
Last two posts a little abrupt so I apologies.
Just saying it will be fine or repeating something from a newspaper that supports your own view is pointless.
Have you not noticed the sudden rush to dispel "Remoaner myths"?
It's nothing of the sort. It's just shouty headlines and empty articles trying to set a tone.
Take a step back and do some work yourself.
It gets very complicated very quickly. When it comes to the insurance and liability of an aeroplane companies get very nervous, very quickly.
Again, I'm sure it's possible, but you will probably find airline insurance and probably your travel insurance rising considerably. I just priced up a little 4 night break in beni for 3 adults all inclusive in may was same price as last yr tbf I was surprised I was expecting some sort of increase it’s my own fault tho I shouldn’t of listened to Fabio lol "
Great think they have opened a club in the old town cupido. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I think a second referendum is more likely than a GE.
Cant see it happening its a remain dream,what happens if you get the same result?
I think if May's deal doesn't go through then the most likely outcome is a no deal brexit (or a managed no deal exit). Grieve can put all the ammendments in he likes, he can't change the fact it is now UK law in legislature through the EU Withdrawal bill combined with the vote to trigger article 50, that we leave the EU on 29th March either with or without a deal.
He can. Government will fold and bring in legislation.
You could try and explain why a dysfunctional government would pull the country into a situation that nobody except the most extreme Brexiteer wants but I don't think that you can.
You have always seemed unable to empathise so I am certain that you will once again repeat what you think and somehow believe that it is what most people who voted to leave think.
The government won't fold. You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think it will. When push comes to shove no Tory will vote against the government if Corbyn calls a vote of no confidence. The DUP will also back the government in that scenario to stop Corbyn getting into power. Even if the government did fold and Corbyn got into number 10, then Corbyn is still committed to leaving the EU so we still get Brexit.
Leaving with no deal is not an extreme position (only in your own head), leaving with a managed no deal to ensure planes continue to fly and with which we trade with the EU on WTO rules is not extreme, funnily enough it's how most of the rest of the world trades with the EU.
So you trust Theresa May at her word again?
Flip, flop. Flip, flop.
You and her.
Naturally you didn't answer the actual question. What benefit does the government gain politically or substantively from a no deal Brexit?
Most of the rest of the world does not vote with the EU on WTO terms.
Mist of the rest of the world tries pretty damned hard not to trade on WTO terms at all. Why do you think anybody dies deals at all if it's all fine?
I suggest you do some research and see how many countries trade exclusively on WTO terms at all let alone with the EU.
Why not post your findings here?
Then I suggest you find out which countries have objected to our putative WTO schedule.
Why not post your findings here?
Finally I suggest you find out if the Supreme Court of the UK has the final say on a trade dispute under the WTO.
Why not post your findings here?
On your first point it would be politically damaging for the government to remain in the EU, as the country voted Leave, and the government got into power at the general election on a manifesto promise to leave the EU, leave the single market and leave the customs union. If the government delivers a no deal brexit, that delivers on the EU referendum result, and also fulfills the Conservative party manifesto promises at the general election to leave the EU, leave the single market and leave the customs union.
On your 2nd point, some of the largest economies in the world such as USA and China trade with the EU on WTO rules, USA and China don't have trade deals with the EU.
It doesn't matter which countries oppose our WTO tariff schedule as WTO rules give us a 10 year exemption from tariffs, while negotiating a free trade deal with the EU, which would happen in the event of UK leaving with no deal. "
Wrong about the largest economies trading with the EU on WTO rules.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-45112872
What is your source of information? It baffles me how you come up with this stuff.
I have seen your source for the 10 year tariff exemption. It's the Express. The call it our "secret weapon". Very Dad's Army. Don't panic, don't panic! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying.
If you start a sentence with "I don't know but..." then perhaps it's a sentence not to start?"
No mate i started with that because unlike you remainers i dont pretend to know it all but still like to express my opinion i think that is what this forum is for or do you not like to hear anything that goes against your "expert opinion"? |
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"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
"
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe.
There was no fuss, no muss, just a few bits of paperwork and.... done.
No panic, no wringing of hands... they just got it done.
When push comes to shove, the EU (or at least, the businesses therein that do 340 billion worth of trade with us) will want to do the same, and will exert pressure on their respective governments to get things sorted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""No deal" and "Managed no deal" are exactly the same thing....it's all sound bites.
Not according to the more pedantic remoaners on here it isn't.
So why do you add the managed then? If it's not you that is differentiating!!
Because if I'd just said "no deal" remoaning pedants like you would come along and say that means planes would be grounded, blah, blah, blah.
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules. "
Laughable coming from the biggest pedant on here...you'll often pick an extremely minor point in an argument to try and point score it usually ends up undermining a point you've previously made ...then you'll try and change the subject.
Good to hear you're a fan of the EU's no deal planning though, what do you think of our planning so far? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe.
There was no fuss, no muss, just a few bits of paperwork and.... done.
No panic, no wringing of hands... they just got it done.
When push comes to shove, the EU (or at least, the businesses therein that do 340 billion worth of trade with us) will want to do the same, and will exert pressure on their respective governments to get things sorted."
So now they are a foreign company?
How does that effect their tax status? Quietly. No fuss.
Nobody said that trade would end.
It will just cost us more, provide us with less variety and longer waiting times. Not just with the EU but globally.
#Brexit win
If you can explain how it will do the opposite with more than just "belief" them be my guest. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
That's why it has "managed" added on the front.
What a lot of bollocks.
A deal is a deal, however you want to spin it.
Just admit it, the UK needs to put in place a deal or deals with the EU.
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
No. The EU have said that we can fly to Europe on their terms which can be arbitrarily changed or terminated.
We can, of course, do the same, but that isolates us not Europe.
We have no say in this.
Where insurance and legal cover stands with respect to certification is anyone's guess.
Do you know?The chicago convention on international civil aviation, read it should stop your sleepless nights on aviation.
Does that cover recognition of insurance and airworthiness or just the right to fly two and from (and via?) your home country assuming all the rest is in place? I dont know but i think if they have respected the uk,s air worthiness certs and insurance for so many years it would go against the convention to not respect them the day we leave.Just my interpretation im not a aviation lawyer.Also i think the majority of eu flights to the usa fly through uk airspace just saying.
If you start a sentence with "I don't know but..." then perhaps it's a sentence not to start?No mate i started with that because unlike you remainers i dont pretend to know it all but still like to express my opinion i think that is what this forum is for or do you not like to hear anything that goes against your "expert opinion"?"
I did, actually, apologise for being abrupt.
Good that you accepted my apology so graciously.
Nice |
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""No deal" and "Managed no deal" are exactly the same thing....it's all sound bites.
Not according to the more pedantic remoaners on here it isn't. "
There's no such thing as a managed no deal. It's an oxymoron |
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"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe.
There was no fuss, no muss, just a few bits of paperwork and.... done.
No panic, no wringing of hands... they just got it done.
When push comes to shove, the EU (or at least, the businesses therein that do 340 billion worth of trade with us) will want to do the same, and will exert pressure on their respective governments to get things sorted."
What have Ryanair, an irish company, got to do with it? |
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"Its a good day for politics today _abio
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you!"
How many part time pizza delivery men who are experts on aviation rules do you know!? Me personally NONE!!
Why do you feel the need to keep posting about something you blatantly have no genuine knowledge off, do you like to play the fool! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe."
Ryanair isn't leaving the single aviation market. The UK is.
Its UK subsidiary is what you are referring to. From March 29, the UK subsidiary will be outside the single aviation market. The rest of Ryanair will not.
You are the 2nd poster now who thinks Ryanair is a good example. It's a good example of a foreign airline operating in the EU single aviation market. You know, the one the UK voted to leave.
|
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"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe.
There was no fuss, no muss, just a few bits of paperwork and.... done.
No panic, no wringing of hands... they just got it done.
When push comes to shove, the EU (or at least, the businesses therein that do 340 billion worth of trade with us) will want to do the same, and will exert pressure on their respective governments to get things sorted.
So now they are a foreign company?
How does that effect their tax status? Quietly. No fuss.
Nobody said that trade would end.
It will just cost us more, provide us with less variety and longer waiting times. Not just with the EU but globally.
#Brexit win
If you can explain how it will do the opposite with more than just "belief" them be my guest."
Longer waiting times? What the Home office has proposed is that after Brexit UK airports will have 'UK passport holders only' queues while EU citizens will join 'the rest of the world' queues. This will make waiting times for UK citizens in UK airports shorter not longer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe.
There was no fuss, no muss, just a few bits of paperwork and.... done.
No panic, no wringing of hands... they just got it done.
When push comes to shove, the EU (or at least, the businesses therein that do 340 billion worth of trade with us) will want to do the same, and will exert pressure on their respective governments to get things sorted.
So now they are a foreign company?
How does that effect their tax status? Quietly. No fuss.
Nobody said that trade would end.
It will just cost us more, provide us with less variety and longer waiting times. Not just with the EU but globally.
#Brexit win
If you can explain how it will do the opposite with more than just "belief" them be my guest.
Longer waiting times? What the Home office has proposed is that after Brexit UK airports will have 'UK passport holders only' queues while EU citizens will join 'the rest of the world' queues. This will make waiting times for UK citizens in UK airports shorter not longer. "
But presumably longer in EU airports where we join the rest of the world queue? I don’t travel enough to know what being in the RoW queue does to time waiting. But it always feels quite quick atm so can’t imagine there will be a tonne of time saved from having a UK only queue. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Its a good day for politics today _abio
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you!
How many part time pizza delivery men who are experts on aviation rules do you know!? Me personally NONE!!
Why do you feel the need to keep posting about something you blatantly have no genuine knowledge off, do you like to play the fool! "
I am really angry and annoyed at this post... I have spoken to a few people here and some think I should report it as a personal attack! I have had some time to calm down now and have decided not to... but if I get time out for what I am about to say I expect you to get double
So... your m.o on here is to always attack the poster, but never touch the topic at hand, this is a classic example of this! If one thing comes of this post then I hope it is a change in the way you post
1) how dare you demean what I say by what I do because you don’t know me! I, like a lot of other people, do/did take away delivery as a 2nd job! I did it because I wanted to pay off my mortgage and my house quicker! I am proud that at 42 I managed to be car payments free and mortgage free!
Now the subject matter at hand... the reason why transport is a subject matter closer to my heart is for 10 yrs I was a European travel manager for a railway company, it meant I liaised with other rail companies, with ferry companies and with airlines.... it is still something close to my heart as I had to help some of the most valuable people in pleasant and horrifying situations... it is something I am very proud of!
So yeah, you could call me nerdy on the subject
How do I know what I know... because I keep an eye on European Commission releases in relations to transport
That is why I KNOW they have given uk pilots a 12 month grace period on their licenses
That is why I KNOW they have they have given uk safety and maintenance records a 6 month grace period
That is why I KNOW they have said they will allow a basic and minimal service levels but not to the level of eu open skies to from eu destinations
It has all come from released ... I can point you in the direction of eac and every one
So from here on in... if you want to discuss subject matter and points of policy then fine, but otherwise don’t converse with me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There are three types of Fab posters.
1) those who post analysis and conclusions and show where they are coming from.
2) those who post just ‘facts’ and ‘conclusions’ but seem to not provide supporting evidence. Many who post brexit myths fall in this camp.
3) those who post platitudes.
I’d put Fabio largely in the first camp.
The irony with the “pizza man”’comment seems to be that people are saying the details of brexit are too complicated for the man on the street. But yet we made an informed decision. We should leave the analysis to experts. Except when they raise concerns. In which case it’s project fear. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
"
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose "
Don't let the bastards grind you down! |
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"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose "
You were the one who revealed that information about being a Pizza delivery man in the first place Fabio (on another thread). Maybe in hindsight it was foolish of you to release that sort of personal information about yourself in the first place. You and others have asked me what my job is on more than one occasion. My answer is always to say I'm not going to give out personal information like that on a public forum.
Oh and for the record Peacehaven has had fun poked at him by remainers on here on several occasions about his job, he's never once thrown a strop about it in the way you have done on this thread. |
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"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose
Don't let the bastards grind you down!"
Like in the same way you've tried to grind Peacehaven down when you've poked fun at his job on several occasions on different threads. Have a look in the mirror. |
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Fabio is a decent bloke I know him from clubf he’s very well respected up there and to be mortgage free at 42 and he’s done it the hard way we’ll in my book he deserves credit for that wish I was bloody mortgage free and I bet most on fab do aswell good on ya fella |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose "
That’s a shame. Seducing the pizza guy is on my bucket list |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose
Don't let the bastards grind you down!
Like in the same way you've tried to grind Peacehaven down when you've poked fun at his job on several occasions on different threads. Have a look in the mirror. "
From the person that uses derogatory words / names the most out of anyone on this forum when talking about Remain voters
Honestly, I couldn't make this shit up better if I tried |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I think what he was saying earlier on the tv that aviation and transport etc have already been sorted even if we leave with no deal.
The EU has put forward some proposal for a basic service level between the UK and the EU after March 29, but I do not believe this has been endorsed yet by the UK.
The UK is in a bit of a mess over the whole thing.
Neither does that address the issues about UK airlines operating on routes between two EU countries, i.e. the single aviation market.
The FT today reports that Brussels is rejecting pleas from IAG that airlines like Iberia and Are Lingus are actually EU airlines and should be unaffected.
Meanwhile, Ryanair have quietly just re-licensed, and are allowed to carry on flying to and from (and over) Europe.
There was no fuss, no muss, just a few bits of paperwork and.... done.
No panic, no wringing of hands... they just got it done.
When push comes to shove, the EU (or at least, the businesses therein that do 340 billion worth of trade with us) will want to do the same, and will exert pressure on their respective governments to get things sorted.
So now they are a foreign company?
How does that effect their tax status? Quietly. No fuss.
Nobody said that trade would end.
It will just cost us more, provide us with less variety and longer waiting times. Not just with the EU but globally.
#Brexit win
If you can explain how it will do the opposite with more than just "belief" them be my guest.
Longer waiting times? What the Home office has proposed is that after Brexit UK airports will have 'UK passport holders only' queues while EU citizens will join 'the rest of the world' queues. This will make waiting times for UK citizens in UK airports shorter not longer. "
I was talking about trade, not airline travel.
Good reading skills |
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"Lmaoooo it’s way to cold I can’t stand it either and we are in teesside buddy and I can’t understand Geordie "
Mate of mine lived in South Shields and none of the Geordie lads had a clue what he was saying half the time.. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Lmaoooo it’s way to cold I can’t stand it either and we are in teesside buddy and I can’t understand Geordie
Mate of mine lived in South Shields and none of the Geordie lads had a clue what he was saying half the time.. "
Well they wouldnt hes a sand dancer. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"
"Managed no deal" as shown in the EU's own no deal planning shows a number of small side deals would be done to ensure planes continue to fly, and traffic continues to flow through Dover and Calais, etc, while we trade with the EU on WTO rules.
How can a series of individual deals amount to "no deal"?
It is a contradiction.
"
There can only be one deal at the end of the day not a series of them so that is a no deal Sarah |
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"Its a good day for politics today _abio
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you!
How many part time pizza delivery men who are experts on aviation rules do you know!? Me personally NONE!!
Why do you feel the need to keep posting about something you blatantly have no genuine knowledge off, do you like to play the fool!
I am really angry and annoyed at this post... I have spoken to a few people here and some think I should report it as a personal attack! I have had some time to calm down now and have decided not to... but if I get time out for what I am about to say I expect you to get double
So... your m.o on here is to always attack the poster, but never touch the topic at hand, this is a classic example of this! If one thing comes of this post then I hope it is a change in the way you post
1) how dare you demean what I say by what I do because you don’t know me! I, like a lot of other people, do/did take away delivery as a 2nd job! I did it because I wanted to pay off my mortgage and my house quicker! I am proud that at 42 I managed to be car payments free and mortgage free!
Now the subject matter at hand... the reason why transport is a subject matter closer to my heart is for 10 yrs I was a European travel manager for a railway company, it meant I liaised with other rail companies, with ferry companies and with airlines.... it is still something close to my heart as I had to help some of the most valuable people in pleasant and horrifying situations... it is something I am very proud of!
So yeah, you could call me nerdy on the subject
How do I know what I know... because I keep an eye on European Commission releases in relations to transport
That is why I KNOW they have given uk pilots a 12 month grace period on their licenses
That is why I KNOW they have they have given uk safety and maintenance records a 6 month grace period
That is why I KNOW they have said they will allow a basic and minimal service levels but not to the level of eu open skies to from eu destinations
It has all come from released ... I can point you in the direction of eac and every one
So from here on in... if you want to discuss subject matter and points of policy then fine, but otherwise don’t converse with me "
Lol, Fabio you are one of those know it alls we meet in life who are an expert on everything.
Pizzas, trains, Nhs & pensions is there no end to your talents or can you not hold down a job for too long.
|
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
No deal means severing all links.
No European arrest warrant, for example.
No air access.
And a host of other things that simply evaporate at 11pm on March 29 because there are no legal undertakings in place to ensure continuity.
Even Centaur has backed away from "no deal" now.
No deal means resorting to WTO and application of international law on things like borders.
The only country that would be more isolated in those circumstances is North Korea.
Even Theresa May's most notorious platitude - No Deal is better than a bad deal - has been tossed aside.
The worst possible outcome always was No Deal.
We shot ourselves in the foot, yet now there are some who want to go further and knee-cap the country, too.
We can recover from a broken foot, but not from a knee-capping.
I do find it hard to believe there are people who want to sever every single link between the UK and our neighbours.
|
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"
There can only be one deal at the end of the day not a series of them so that is a no deal Sarah"
Is this a joke post? Or are you trolling?
Think about your daily life and how many deals you have going on just to exist as an individual on a day to day basis. Most of those deals are in fact unsigned deals - they are called laws that as a citizen you agree to adhere to.
Others are negotiated deals - energy supplies, mortgage/rent, insurances. You are even under forms of deals when you park your car, go shopping and buy things. Your life is embraced with deals.
As a third country, the UK will have to set up its own standards agencies again and will have to make hundreds, if not thousands of deals will different bodies, agencies and regulators all over the world but most urgently for now - with the EU.
This is just basic, basic stuff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
There can only be one deal at the end of the day not a series of them so that is a no deal Sarah
Is this a joke post? Or are you trolling?
Think about your daily life and how many deals you have going on just to exist as an individual on a day to day basis. Most of those deals are in fact unsigned deals - they are called laws that as a citizen you agree to adhere to.
Others are negotiated deals - energy supplies, mortgage/rent, insurances. You are even under forms of deals when you park your car, go shopping and buy things. Your life is embraced with deals.
As a third country, the UK will have to set up its own standards agencies again and will have to make hundreds, if not thousands of deals will different bodies, agencies and regulators all over the world but most urgently for now - with the EU.
This is just basic, basic stuff."
All at a monumental loss of human productivity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Its a good day for politics today _abio
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you!
How many part time pizza delivery men who are experts on aviation rules do you know!? Me personally NONE!!
Why do you feel the need to keep posting about something you blatantly have no genuine knowledge off, do you like to play the fool!
I am really angry and annoyed at this post... I have spoken to a few people here and some think I should report it as a personal attack! I have had some time to calm down now and have decided not to... but if I get time out for what I am about to say I expect you to get double
So... your m.o on here is to always attack the poster, but never touch the topic at hand, this is a classic example of this! If one thing comes of this post then I hope it is a change in the way you post
1) how dare you demean what I say by what I do because you don’t know me! I, like a lot of other people, do/did take away delivery as a 2nd job! I did it because I wanted to pay off my mortgage and my house quicker! I am proud that at 42 I managed to be car payments free and mortgage free!
Now the subject matter at hand... the reason why transport is a subject matter closer to my heart is for 10 yrs I was a European travel manager for a railway company, it meant I liaised with other rail companies, with ferry companies and with airlines.... it is still something close to my heart as I had to help some of the most valuable people in pleasant and horrifying situations... it is something I am very proud of!
So yeah, you could call me nerdy on the subject
How do I know what I know... because I keep an eye on European Commission releases in relations to transport
That is why I KNOW they have given uk pilots a 12 month grace period on their licenses
That is why I KNOW they have they have given uk safety and maintenance records a 6 month grace period
That is why I KNOW they have said they will allow a basic and minimal service levels but not to the level of eu open skies to from eu destinations
It has all come from released ... I can point you in the direction of eac and every one
So from here on in... if you want to discuss subject matter and points of policy then fine, but otherwise don’t converse with me
Lol, Fabio you are one of those know it alls we meet in life who are an expert on everything.
Pizzas, trains, Nhs & pensions is there no end to your talents or can you not hold down a job for too long.
"
It takes one to know one! |
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"Its a good day for politics today _abio
only if you are telling the truth costa.... its been a fascinating day, but some of the "half truths" people are telling here are begging to be fact checks and called out....
which reminds me.... i a going to get to your "3rd post of call" for planes thing not affecting brits that much.... because it will probably do so a bit more than you think..... theres a teaser for you!
How many part time pizza delivery men who are experts on aviation rules do you know!? Me personally NONE!!
Why do you feel the need to keep posting about something you blatantly have no genuine knowledge off, do you like to play the fool!
I am really angry and annoyed at this post... I have spoken to a few people here and some think I should report it as a personal attack! I have had some time to calm down now and have decided not to... but if I get time out for what I am about to say I expect you to get double
So... your m.o on here is to always attack the poster, but never touch the topic at hand, this is a classic example of this! If one thing comes of this post then I hope it is a change in the way you post
1) how dare you demean what I say by what I do because you don’t know me! I, like a lot of other people, do/did take away delivery as a 2nd job! I did it because I wanted to pay off my mortgage and my house quicker! I am proud that at 42 I managed to be car payments free and mortgage free!
Now the subject matter at hand... the reason why transport is a subject matter closer to my heart is for 10 yrs I was a European travel manager for a railway company, it meant I liaised with other rail companies, with ferry companies and with airlines.... it is still something close to my heart as I had to help some of the most valuable people in pleasant and horrifying situations... it is something I am very proud of!
So yeah, you could call me nerdy on the subject
How do I know what I know... because I keep an eye on European Commission releases in relations to transport
That is why I KNOW they have given uk pilots a 12 month grace period on their licenses
That is why I KNOW they have they have given uk safety and maintenance records a 6 month grace period
That is why I KNOW they have said they will allow a basic and minimal service levels but not to the level of eu open skies to from eu destinations
It has all come from released ... I can point you in the direction of eac and every one
So from here on in... if you want to discuss subject matter and points of policy then fine, but otherwise don’t converse with me
Lol, Fabio you are one of those know it alls we meet in life who are an expert on everything.
Pizzas, trains, Nhs & pensions is there no end to your talents or can you not hold down a job for too long.
It takes one to know one! "
You should know, you are another one on here who knows something about everything!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’d like a Hawaiin with extra pineapple, please Fabio
Sorry.... haven’t done it for 2yrs.... which is why I was surprised someone brought it up to denigrate me!
Hey... onward and upward I suppose
Don't let the bastards grind you down!
Like in the same way you've tried to grind Peacehaven down when you've poked fun at his job on several occasions on different threads. Have a look in the mirror. "
Man, they can try all they like, I won’t be grinded down by a bunch of half head liberals.Its almost comical, they lord it over because there are more of them on here, but this is a swingers website and a lot of members are airheads and liberals. So never mind because it will all be different in real life,.. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
All at a monumental loss of human productivity"
A question in Parliament the other day asked how many staff in the Department of Business Energy and Industrial Strategy were working full-time on Brexit.
950 out of 3900, with a special Brexit allocation of £190m this financial year from the Treasury.
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"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be."
OOOh I love it when you get personal.
I am not in Parliment and I am not being used as an virtuis example.
To keep it short and simple for you she is a lying, thieving 2 face person.
and you think she is great example for an MP.
Cuckoo |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Well done Yvette Cooper.
Very politically astute.
next leader of the labour party as far as i am concerned... plus she always holds the home secs feet to the fire as head of the home affairs select committee.....
Ahhh Yvette Cooper.
The snout in the trough MP.
Her and her hubby Ed Balls claimed over £300000 in expenses including flipping their home 3 times to get their snouts deeper in the trough.
Even claimed for a naughty film on expenses.
Handed my Labour card when this happened.
Rails against private education but she sent her kids to a private school.
True socialism at work eh.
And you want her as a potential PM
And I bet all through your life you have been a model citizen???
The fact is that Yvette Cooper is one of the few Politicians who puts fear into Theresa May and that is good enough for me right now. The fact that May is more scared of a Labour backbencher than she is of Corbyn ought to really tell you what is going on.
I really don’t give a shit about the past anymore - the future is way too important and I am glad to see a Politician doing the right thing for the country right now. She is astute, she is clever, she is focused, she is determined and she has the well-being of the WHOLE country as her motivation. I don’t see a lot wrong with that,
Oh and yes. I think that the Labour grass roots will see that they made a mistake in choosing the current leader of the no opposition, opposition over her. She is by far a more competent Politician and Leader than JC could ever hope to be.
OOOh I love it when you get personal.
I am not in Parliment and I am not being used as an virtuis example.
To keep it short and simple for you she is a lying, thieving 2 face person.
and you think she is great example for an MP.
Cuckoo"
Yvette Cooper is a more talented Politician than Jeremy Corbyn could ever hope to be. Nothing personal, just fact. |
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