FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > It's not Project Fear, warns Gove - no deal would be grim
It's not Project Fear, warns Gove - no deal would be grim
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Michael Gove, addressing the Oxford Farming Conference today:
"I know that some of the predictions about what might happen without a deal have been dismissed as another episode of Project Fear, a re-run of the lurid claims in the 2016 referendum that a vote to leave would trigger an automatic recession.
"At the time, I vigorously rejected those projections and indeed was criticised by some for being too dismissive of expert opinion. Well, no recession came and the economic forecasts turned out to be unfounded.
"But while Project Fear proved to be fiction, when we look at what a no-deal Brexit could involve we do need to be clear about the costs and facts.
"A no-deal Brexit means we would face overall tariff rates of around 11% on agricultural products. But some sectors would be much more severely affected.
"It’s a grim but inescapable fact that in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the effective tariffs on beef and sheep meat would be above 40% - in some cases well above that.
"While exchange rates might take some of the strain, the costs imposed by new tariffs would undoubtedly exceed any adjustment in the currency markets. And, of course, if the pound does make exports more competitive, it also feeds inflationary pressures at home.
"Tariffs are not the only issue. While the EU have pledged to accelerate the process whereby the UK is recognised as a third country and we can continue to export food to their markets freely, all products of animal origin will have to go through border inspection posts and, at the moment, the EU have said 100% of products will face sanitary and phytosanitary checks.
"Much of our trade currently reaches European markets through the narrow straits between Dover and Calais. At the moment there are no border inspection posts at Calais. While we do hope the French take steps to build capacity there, that capacity is unlikely by the end of March to be generous.
"The EU have also said that hauliers from the UK can carry export goods to EU markets but they cannot make multiple journeys from EU country to EU country and thus the costs of haulage could rise as well.
"The combination of significant tariffs when none exist now, friction and checks at the border when none exist now and requirements to re-route or pay more for transport when current arrangements are frictionless, will all add to costs for producers." |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !"
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable! "
You forget tho. Greggs now do vegan sausage rolls.  |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about
this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable! "
Well said Fabio. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable! "
|
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable! "
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !  |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
You know we're being softened up for a proper clusterfuck when the Leave poster boy, the politician who said Britain would hold all the cards on the day we left, now reckons we'll be, um, screwed.
Experts, anyone? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol ! "
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer...."
"One of your own" ? What other assumptions about my thoughts would you like to make ? Trying to tell me what I think in order to satisfy your own agenda in order to try and win an argument is a, let's say , unusual approach !
Hope that answer was interesting enough for you ???? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
His speech was about the possible effects on exports not imports, some sections of the farming industry are more concerned about his ideas of cheaper food not dearer.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1016251/brexit-cheap-food-price-cuts-farming-ecomony |
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By *athy1Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol ! "
Speaks the expert
Dense springs to mind |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer....
"One of your own" ? What other assumptions about my thoughts would you like to make ? Trying to tell me what I think in order to satisfy your own agenda in order to try and win an argument is a, let's say , unusual approach !
Hope that answer was interesting enough for you ????"
or you could have just said in a few words...."I know nothing so thought i'd just trot out the old project fear trope for shits and giggles....." 
well they say ignorance is bliss..... hmmmmmmm |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer....
"One of your own" ? What other assumptions about my thoughts would you like to make ? Trying to tell me what I think in order to satisfy your own agenda in order to try and win an argument is a, let's say , unusual approach !
Hope that answer was interesting enough for you ????"
So many words but are you really saying anything
Empty rhetoric scores nil point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The biggest problem I see hear from the governments point of view is the Oxford Farming Conference.
They still do farming in Oxford? Shocking. Shut down the farms - that solves the low paid crop picking labour shortage problem - no crops to pick. Open new hospitals, cycle lanes, universities and build houses. Ban dirty vehicles such as buses.
Job sorted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Michael Gove is a worm, he said he wanted a hard BREXIT, then Ms May gave him a cabinet job and he changed his mind. How bright was that light in the road to Damascus? How much is the snake oil these days?
Fuck him. |
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"His speech was about the possible effects on exports not imports, some sections of the farming industry are more concerned about his ideas of cheaper food not dearer.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1016251/brexit-cheap-food-price-cuts-farming-ecomony"
Yep...
Now if EXPORTS are held up at EU ports, where are ferries going to unload their lorries? And where are the lorries going to be found to IMPORT goods to the UK?
Or do you think that transport companies are going to be willing to see their earning potential (and cover the wages of their drivers) while sitting for 6 weeks on docksides in EU ports of entry for 6 weeks in order to earn a couple of days income for delivering a load to the UK?
Some people haven't got a clue! |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol ! "
It was far politer than what I was going to say to be honest.
I have to say I am absolutely baffled by your response.
-Matt |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"His speech was about the possible effects on exports not imports, some sections of the farming industry are more concerned about his ideas of cheaper food not dearer.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1016251/brexit-cheap-food-price-cuts-farming-ecomony"
Ok, what am I missing here? That article seems to imply that tariffs on importing goods from abroad would go down when we leave the EU? But if we are falling back to WTO rules (as we have no trade deals), then surely that means we legally have to apply the same tarrifs to all (MFN rules). So unless we are scrapping import tarriffs completely and totally undercutting our own domestic producers, how are imported goods going to be cheaper to the U.K. shopper?
-Matt |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !"
Project reality. People starting to get real. Heads could be buried in the sand for so long.
A fully briefed and educated electorate and business community are essential, if the biggest changes to the country are decided on one public vote and £billions of business is jeopardized or has to be undertaken with major upheaval or change to the bottom line. |
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"Ok, what am I missing here? That article seems to imply that tariffs on importing goods from abroad would go down when we leave the EU? But if we are falling back to WTO rules (as we have no trade deals), then surely that means we legally have to apply the same tarrifs to all (MFN rules). So unless we are scrapping import tarriffs completely and totally undercutting our own domestic producers, how are imported goods going to be cheaper to the U.K. shopper?
-Matt"
You're missing nothing. The Tory fallback is to take control of our borders by opening them to all imports without tariffs and to remove all employment and product restrictions to keep UK business competitive.
'If it is good enough for India and Pakistan then it should be good enough for us' (Jacob Reese Mogg MP). |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable! "
Here's the thing about Gove, he's thrown his lot in backing Theresa May's deal. So yes in a sense he's now on a mini project fear trip of his own trying to scare other MP's into voting for May's deal later this month. |
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"His speech was about the possible effects on exports not imports, some sections of the farming industry are more concerned about his ideas of cheaper food not dearer.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1016251/brexit-cheap-food-price-cuts-farming-ecomony
Yep...
Now if EXPORTS are held up at EU ports, where are ferries going to unload their lorries? And where are the lorries going to be found to IMPORT goods to the UK?
Or do you think that transport companies are going to be willing to see their earning potential (and cover the wages of their drivers) while sitting for 6 weeks on docksides in EU ports of entry for 6 weeks in order to earn a couple of days income for delivering a load to the UK?
Some people haven't got a clue!"
You haven't got a clue Will. The EU already ruled out the scenario you described. When the EU released its no deal contingency plans a few weeks ago they said they would not hold up traffic at sea ports and airports, planes would continue to fly and ferries and lorries would continue to operate as normal in places like Dover and Calais for example. A few quick mini side deals may need to be done (a managed no deal) but that is what the EU's own no deal contingency plans said. |
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I'd have thought
""all products of animal origin will have to go through border inspection posts and, at the moment, the EU have said 100% of products will face sanitary and phytosanitary checks.""
was pretty self explanatory |
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"Michael Gove is a worm, he said he wanted a hard BREXIT, then Ms May gave him a cabinet job and he changed his mind. How bright was that light in the road to Damascus? How much is the snake oil these days?
Fuck him."
Gove exposed himself as a snake 2 years ago when he stabbed Boris in the back. If he hadn't done that I think Boris may have won the leadership contest and we would've had a Brexiteer Prime minister instead of the Remainer Theresa May. If Gove had backed Boris he may have got the Chancellor's job, as it is he's now in a much less prestigious position at DEFRA. |
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"If he hadn't done that I think Boris may have won the leadership contest and we would've had a Brexiteer Prime minister"
Like hell would he, Gove has many many failings but inability to smell the coffee isn't one of them |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Weren't the dairy farmers saying a couple of years ago that they were being killed off because of cheap, "subsidised", milk coming into the country?
For as long as I can remember, farmers have always complained about something. |
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"Weren't the dairy farmers saying a couple of years ago that they were being killed off because of cheap, "subsidised", milk coming into the country?
For as long as I can remember, farmers have always complained about something."
A No Deal will solve that problem....there wont be enough farmers to complain and upset you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If he’s a snake and can’t be trusted, everything he says has to be ignored. Not just the bits you don’t agree with.
The alternative view is it is easy to take one view when dealing with broad brush strokes but change your mind (or be more balanced) when faced with the whites of the eyes of those affected.
It’s like a saying brexit is good because prices will come down (express article) but then have to tell farmers this means their industry will be destroyed. |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer...."
do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ? |
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"Michael Gove is a worm, he said he wanted a hard BREXIT, then Ms May gave him a cabinet job and he changed his mind. How bright was that light in the road to Damascus? How much is the snake oil these days?
Fuck him.
Gove exposed himself as a snake 2 years ago when he stabbed Boris in the back. If he hadn't done that I think Boris may have won the leadership contest and we would've had a Brexiteer Prime minister instead of the Remainer Theresa May. If Gove had backed Boris he may have got the Chancellor's job, as it is he's now in a much less prestigious position at DEFRA. "
Or,
He should be applauded for telling the truth after all what he said is commonly accepted in the tory party..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Michael Gove is a worm, he said he wanted a hard BREXIT, then Ms May gave him a cabinet job and he changed his mind. How bright was that light in the road to Damascus? How much is the snake oil these days?
Fuck him.
Gove exposed himself as a snake 2 years ago when he stabbed Boris in the back. If he hadn't done that I think Boris may have won the leadership contest and we would've had a Brexiteer Prime minister instead of the Remainer Theresa May. If Gove had backed Boris he may have got the Chancellor's job, as it is he's now in a much less prestigious position at DEFRA. "
I think your probably right. It's a pity Boris didn't have the balls to take him on! |
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"Michael Gove is a worm, he said he wanted a hard BREXIT, then Ms May gave him a cabinet job and he changed his mind. How bright was that light in the road to Damascus? How much is the snake oil these days?
Fuck him."
Do you have a link to him saying that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Weren't the dairy farmers saying a couple of years ago that they were being killed off because of cheap, "subsidised", milk coming into the country?
For as long as I can remember, farmers have always complained about something.
A No Deal will solve that problem....there wont be enough farmers to complain and upset you"
I can remember once - a long time ago when farmers were committing suicide on a daily/weekly basis? |
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"Michael Gove is a worm, he said he wanted a hard BREXIT, then Ms May gave him a cabinet job and he changed his mind. How bright was that light in the road to Damascus? How much is the snake oil these days?
Fuck him.
Gove exposed himself as a snake 2 years ago when he stabbed Boris in the back. If he hadn't done that I think Boris may have won the leadership contest and we would've had a Brexiteer Prime minister instead of the Remainer Theresa May. If Gove had backed Boris he may have got the Chancellor's job, as it is he's now in a much less prestigious position at DEFRA.
I think your probably right. It's a pity Boris didn't have the balls to take him on!"
Fact is he didn't have the guts to face Gove down and put his trust in his own ability and standing within the party, maybe he knew what the answer would be..
Ditto he bailed out as Foreign Secretary instead of fighting for what he says he believes from within..
Hardly PM material, more like wishy washy self promoting cancer.. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?"
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word |
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By *essiCouple
over a year ago
suffolk |
"Weren't the dairy farmers saying a couple of years ago that they were being killed off because of cheap, "subsidised", milk coming into the country?
For as long as I can remember, farmers have always complained about something."
This... and always poor to boot |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Weren't the dairy farmers saying a couple of years ago that they were being killed off because of cheap, "subsidised", milk coming into the country?
For as long as I can remember, farmers have always complained about something.
This... and always poor to boot "
Farmers are the ultimate snowflakes always moaning and pleading poverty.There be no such thing as a poor farmer.
A hard brexit will fuck em proper.Its what they voted for anyway..Let em have both brexit barrels .. |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Farmers earn more from the EU in subsidies than they do commercially.
Something like £3bn last year.
So will that money now be going to the NHS instead?
Not a chance.
It's business as usual for the next three years at least.
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"You haven't got a clue Will. The EU already ruled out the scenario you described. When the EU released its no deal contingency plans a few weeks ago they said they would not hold up traffic at sea ports and airports, planes would continue to fly and ferries and lorries would continue to operate as normal in places like Dover and Calais for example. A few quick mini side deals may need to be done (a managed no deal) but that is what the EU's own no deal contingency plans said. "
No they have not. They have said that they will put in place temporary measures to ensure that planes can continue to fly and vehicles and drivers can continue to move on EU roads. They also said they will not deliberately slow down traffic entering the EU, but they have said that they will be applying EU import regulations.
Anyway in 78 days we will know which of us is right because although the 29th is a Friday we will know if things are going to be OK by Saturday afternoon. So not long now Centy and you will be able to crow all over the likes of me or slink off and delete your account. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We need to end subsidies to farmers.If you can't make a profit you shouldn't be in business.
No more hand outs to banks or farmers
Nobody supports my business.If it doesn't make a profit I go bankrupt end of ..When we have thousands of food banks and millions living day to day on minimum wage and the NHS on its knees.Fat farmers in range rovers can go to the back of the que. |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Nationalism appears to be a disease with symptoms of complete blindness and deafness.
Either that or there are some seriously masochistic people here who want to feel the pain of Brexit make their dick go hard.
Like some religious quack from the 16th century who thought interminable suffering was the cure to all ailment, Brexit cannot be good for the soul unless it is preceded by misery - and the more the better.
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word "
yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to end subsidies to farmers.If you can't make a profit you shouldn't be in business.
No more hand outs to banks or farmers
Nobody supports my business.If it doesn't make a profit I go bankrupt end of ..When we have thousands of food banks and millions living day to day on minimum wage and the NHS on its knees.Fat farmers in range rovers can go to the back of the que. "
In range rovers that are bought from the proceeds subsidies, that gives employment to the worker in the range rover factory ,
That sends milk to the bottling plant that employees more people
1.3 million people in the agri food sector depend on farmers to produce the raw materials that keep them in work ,
And as many more that supply products to the farmer ,
Farming might be subsidised but how many jobs are linked to farming that those subsidies have a knock on affect on , |
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Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So taking money (tax)from one person, and distributing it to another, can help the whole? And even be a benefit to the person who you taxed. Even if they don’t get it all back directly.
That almost sounds like a good thing all round .... |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"We need to end subsidies to farmers.If you can't make a profit you shouldn't be in business.
No more hand outs to banks or farmers
Nobody supports my business.If it doesn't make a profit I go bankrupt end of ..When we have thousands of food banks and millions living day to day on minimum wage and the NHS on its knees.Fat farmers in range rovers can go to the back of the que.
In range rovers that are bought from the proceeds subsidies, that gives employment to the worker in the range rover factory ,
That sends milk to the bottling plant that employees more people
1.3 million people in the agri food sector depend on farmers to produce the raw materials that keep them in work ,
And as many more that supply products to the farmer ,
Farming might be subsidised but how many jobs are linked to farming that those subsidies have a knock on affect on , "
Can I have a subsidy too, please? I'm sure I could spend it in a way that stimulates the economy.
If it is OK to subsidise farmers, why do people get so hung up about subsidising people in low-paid employment?
They spend their subsidies on goods and services, too.
|
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Saly looks as though we will leave without a deal,but we all have to live with this so why moan?Surely we have to get on with it and get through this to get good times to return as soon as possible. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives. "
What will be will be so face up to reality and stop moaning |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Saly looks as though we will leave without a deal,but we all have to live with this so why moan?Surely we have to get on with it and get through this to get good times to return as soon as possible."
problem with this entire quote is that is a stock phrase... but doesn't actually address a single word in the Opening post....
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"We need to end subsidies to farmers.If you can't make a profit you shouldn't be in business.
No more hand outs to banks or farmers
Nobody supports my business.If it doesn't make a profit I go bankrupt end of ..When we have thousands of food banks and millions living day to day on minimum wage and the NHS on its knees.Fat farmers in range rovers can go to the back of the que. "
I go to a venue fairly local to me and the land is owned by a farmer and his son.
It has been interesting to watch them change from fervent Brexiters in 2015/2016, to being mildly regretful in 2017 and towards the end of last year become furiously enraged.
They said that almost every farmer in Lancashire, Merseyside and Greater Manchester voted for Brexit, despite being advised to the contrary by the NFU. Now that it seems apparent that Brexit is going to be about reducing import tariffs to reduce the cost of foodstuffs they are seemingly mightily pissed off.
Their point is that a reduction of import tariffs to boost the economy is only going to be a short-term, shot in the arm whilst it will do immeasurable long-term damage to the UK agricultural and farming industries.
It just surprises me that a body of farmers can so dramatically change their opinions so near Brexit day when the concept of reduced import tariffs has never actually been a secret and in fact, it was what their very own NFU warned them about in the referendum campaign period.
Maybe they assumed it was Project Fear (Farming)? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"So taking money (tax)from one person, and distributing it to another, can help the whole? And even be a benefit to the person who you taxed. Even if they don’t get it all back directly.
That almost sounds like a good thing all round ...."
Huh... cunning plan. Maybe you could even scale the idea up to a national level? Maybe you could get a group of countries to get together and agree common standards for these things
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Saly looks as though we will leave without a deal,but we all have to live with this so why moan?Surely we have to get on with it and get through this to get good times to return as soon as possible."
This displays a lack of understanding of both human nature and of the impact of Brexit. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Saly looks as though we will leave without a deal,but we all have to live with this so why moan?Surely we have to get on with it and get through this to get good times to return as soon as possible.
This displays a lack of understanding of both human nature and of the impact of Brexit. "
These kinds of words and sentiment are sadly symbolic of the shallow minded days that we are living in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to end subsidies to farmers.If you can't make a profit you shouldn't be in business.
No more hand outs to banks or farmers
Nobody supports my business.If it doesn't make a profit I go bankrupt end of ..When we have thousands of food banks and millions living day to day on minimum wage and the NHS on its knees.Fat farmers in range rovers can go to the back of the que.
In range rovers that are bought from the proceeds subsidies, that gives employment to the worker in the range rover factory ,
That sends milk to the bottling plant that employees more people
1.3 million people in the agri food sector depend on farmers to produce the raw materials that keep them in work ,
And as many more that supply products to the farmer ,
Farming might be subsidised but how many jobs are linked to farming that those subsidies have a knock on affect on ,
Can I have a subsidy too, please? I'm sure I could spend it in a way that stimulates the economy.
If it is OK to subsidise farmers, why do people get so hung up about subsidising people in low-paid employment?
They spend their subsidies on goods and services, too.
"
That's a UK government problem that such scheme ant available there , over here we have a back to work scheme for people that are getting back into employment after being on welfare, they keep some of there welfare payment and can work too , and there is another scheme where families that where both people in the family are working can get a supplement to there income ,
|
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol"
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
|
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
"
its all well and good pointing that poll... but it doesnt actually deal with anything in the original post... so you are in essence posting propoganda for no good reason....
so how about actually taking a stab at answering the original post, which you got wrong but will got right... and you didn't get back to it! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
"
On the basis this you quoting this makes it a credible poll in your opinion ....
Faced with no deal versus remain, 45% of the electorate said remain. 35% said no deal.
43% of the tory members thought Mays deal was a bad deal... but any other leader would do no better. Which suggests 46% think this is the best deal brexit on offer.
67% of members who voted leave think Mays deal doesn’t respect the referendum result. Which makes you wonder what they think the result was as we are leaving the EU.... |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
"
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
The NFU is demanding that maintaining food standards is written into law.
They don't want warm words and promises.
Time to start delivering. After all, if the Brexiteers mean it there's nothing to stop them doing this straight way is there? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results"
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?  |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not? "
Heaven forfend |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results"
The SNP has more members than the Conservative Party! |
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"Nationalism appears to be a disease with symptoms of complete blindness and deafness.
Either that or there are some seriously masochistic people here who want to feel the pain of Brexit make their dick go hard.
Like some religious quack from the 16th century who thought interminable suffering was the cure to all ailment, Brexit cannot be good for the soul unless it is preceded by misery - and the more the better.
"
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"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives. "
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea.. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives.
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea.. "
You could say exactly tge same about remain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives.
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea..
You could say exactly tge same about remain."
How? and give examples of the credible research denied! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives.
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea..
You could say exactly tge same about remain.
How? and give examples of the credible research denied!"
Voting to leave will cause an immediate deep and profound recession
Voting to leave will increase unemployment by 500,000 to 800,000 jobs within two years
Voting to leave will cause house prices to drop by 18% within two years
Voting to leave will cause GDP to drop by 6% within two years
There will NEVER be an EU army
We have never given up any sovereignty over our laws, borders, or free movement to the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives.
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea..
You could say exactly tge same about remain.
How? and give examples of the credible research denied!
Voting to leave will cause an immediate deep and profound recession
Voting to leave will increase unemployment by 500,000 to 800,000 jobs within two years
Voting to leave will cause house prices to drop by 18% within two years
Voting to leave will cause GDP to drop by 6% within two years
There will NEVER be an EU army
We have never given up any sovereignty over our laws, borders, or free movement to the EU."
What research was denied by remainers? you haven't put that up..Just stuff from 2016.
|
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"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives.
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea..
You could say exactly tge same about remain."
You could but that would be just another BREXIT lie to add to the seemingly endless list of duplicitous and mendacious lies of Leavers and the whole BREXIT movement.
|
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not? "
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population. "
So you’re saying
A = B
Therefore
C must = B
Therefore
C-D must also equal B
I’m glad you’re not in charge of anything important, like counting cans of beans. |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population. "
We don't need to speculate about it, the surveys have been done.
A majority of those who backed the Conservative in 2015 voted to leave the EU (58%), as did more than 19 out of 20 UKIP supporters. Nearly two thirds of Labour and SNP voters (63% and 64%), seven in ten Liberal Democrats and three quarters of Greens, voted to remain.
|
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population. "
You cannot make that assumption at all. Just as you cannot assume that Labour Party members' views are the same as the views of all Labour voters. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i think it is interesting that all the know leavers in the thread are circling... but not one is actually taking a stab or denying what is in the Original first post..... they are all trying to take the topic in other directions.....
so does anyone want to actually say gove is wrong in his assumptions..... because him not saying it would either mean
1) you believe he shouldn't say anything ...
2) you believe he should mislead when he has government reports telling him otherwise
3) you believe he should outright lie....... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population. "
ESRC also polled the general electorate. I’ve posted an interesting stat here from the very same survey. Given the choice between no deal and remain more people die they want to remain than no deal. No need to make brave extrapolations. |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population.
So you’re saying
A = B
Therefore
C must = B
Therefore
C-D must also equal B
I’m glad you’re not in charge of anything important, like counting cans of beans. "
Counting beans requires numbers not letters.
You've just added 1+2 and come up with 5. |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population.
ESRC also polled the general electorate. I’ve posted an interesting stat here from the very same survey. Given the choice between no deal and remain more people die they want to remain than no deal. No need to make brave extrapolations. "
More people die?
That's a bit extreme and I didn't see anything about people dieing in the survey? lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable! "
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
Surprised you can't express yourself without the use of vulgar language. Fucking typical of remoaners though I guess. Lol !
okay.... simple question....
if you don't believe "one of your own" then who will you believe?
this should be an interesting answer.... do you think the speech was aimed at the farmers or Tory’s who don’t want mays deal Fabio ?
Actually I think that’s an interesting question and I would think that the answer is going to be a bit of both, in that it gives farmers a heads up in what they feared and to make preparations, and to put pressure on Tory mps to get behind mays deal... but for someone to just shout project fear blindly at this stage reeks of arrogance/ignorance you choose the word yes I think there will be more of this to come to put pressure on Tory mps to go for mays deal they must think they stand a chance of swaying them it’s going to be close lol
A recent survey of Conservative party members funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) showed majorities against May's deal.....
In a 3 choice referendum tories would vote....
Leave without a deal 57%
Leave with May's deal 23%
Remain in EU 15% (lol)
In a 2 option referendum tories would vote....
Leave with no deal 64%
Leave with May's deal 29%
In a 2 option referendum, Leave with no deal vs Remain in the EU, a majority of tories would vote
Leave with no deal on 76%
Basically Theresa May's deal has gone down like a lead balloon with Conservative party members and it's pretty clear they would rather leave with no deal that support her deal. If Michael Gove is supporting May's deal then he's also out of step and out of touch with a majority of other Conservative party members.
The membership of the Tory Party stands at around 124k. The average age of Tory Party members is 72. No wonder the survey came out with these results
Are you implying that the Tory party membership is completely unrepresentative of the UK population but do represent the most extreme leave voter for whom a referendum was called by the leader of their party because he was worried that they might vote for UKIP?
Surely not?
The survey was a survey of Conservative party members yes, but it's fair to assume roughly the same views would be held by Conservative voters who are not members of the party. In case you forgot the Conservative party got the largest number of votes in the last general election, and so maybe those survey results are reflective and more representative of the wider population.
ESRC also polled the general electorate. I’ve posted an interesting stat here from the very same survey. Given the choice between no deal and remain more people die they want to remain than no deal. No need to make brave extrapolations.
More people die?
That's a bit extreme and I didn't see anything about people dieing in the survey? lol. "
lol. Typo. Said. More people said they wanted to remain than no deal. And something like almost a third more iirc. |
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"Brexiteers increasingly remind me of old school communists. Anyone trying to implement brexit /communism and creating the inevitable cluster fuck is a traitor or snake who doesn't really believe in the sacred idea.
If only we had someone who really believed in the idea was in charge, utopia would be just around the corner.
Strangely, such a saviour never arrives.
The rhetoric from some on here in relation to any suggestion by anyone no matter how researched the information or how credible the source, is that if it does not praise and worship the great ideology of brexit then its traitorous, they are failures or lackeys or should leave..
Very akin to dictatorship idolising clones in places like North Korea..
You could say exactly tge same about remain."
No you can't, at least not on here there has been no one telling Brexiteers most of the above..
There is a fallback position from some, not all obviously who voted leave who when asked questions relevant to us all which does not fit their 'shut up you lost, make Britain great again by positive thinking only' mantra to default to what I referred to and the same can not be said when it's the other way round..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth . "
You’re slightly missing the point. Remainers predictions were not just wrong, but were fabricated lies and propaganda to trick people into voting remain. That was project fear.
Now, a staunch leaver, who called project fear an irrational picture of life outside the EU seems to be on the agreeing with them.
Which either says Gove has joined in the propaganda project. Or that the remainers were not making up propoganda but may have a view of the world which could be legitimate. That is, some of the bad news is things they believe to be possible, not stuff they don’t believe, but say anyway to achieve their ends.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth .
You’re slightly missing the point. Remainers predictions were not just wrong, but were fabricated lies and propaganda to trick people into voting remain. That was project fear.
Now, a staunch leaver, who called project fear an irrational picture of life outside the EU seems to be on the agreeing with them.
Which either says Gove has joined in the propaganda project. Or that the remainers were not making up propoganda but may have a view of the world which could be legitimate. That is, some of the bad news is things they believe to be possible, not stuff they don’t believe, but say anyway to achieve their ends.
"
I think it's fair to say that remain did predict chaos, however, they were right it will be, what they got wrong was the timetable! Everybody thought it would happen from day 1 - they were wrong - all we have seen is a gradual decline - other than the £.
As it had never happened before nobody really knew. The same can be said about Leave - they are predicting "boom" - so 30th March is boom day? |
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"Michael Gove, addressing the Oxford Farming Conference today:
"I know that some of the predictions about what might happen without a deal have been dismissed as another episode of Project Fear, a re-run of the lurid claims in the 2016 referendum that a vote to leave would trigger an automatic recession.
"At the time, I vigorously rejected those projections and indeed was criticised by some for being too dismissive of expert opinion. Well, no recession came and the economic forecasts turned out to be unfounded.
"But while Project Fear proved to be fiction, when we look at what a no-deal Brexit could involve we do need to be clear about the costs and facts.
"A no-deal Brexit means we would face overall tariff rates of around 11% on agricultural products. But some sectors would be much more severely affected.
"It’s a grim but inescapable fact that in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the effective tariffs on beef and sheep meat would be above 40% - in some cases well above that.
"While exchange rates might take some of the strain, the costs imposed by new tariffs would undoubtedly exceed any adjustment in the currency markets. And, of course, if the pound does make exports more competitive, it also feeds inflationary pressures at home.
"Tariffs are not the only issue. While the EU have pledged to accelerate the process whereby the UK is recognised as a third country and we can continue to export food to their markets freely, all products of animal origin will have to go through border inspection posts and, at the moment, the EU have said 100% of products will face sanitary and phytosanitary checks.
"Much of our trade currently reaches European markets through the narrow straits between Dover and Calais. At the moment there are no border inspection posts at Calais. While we do hope the French take steps to build capacity there, that capacity is unlikely by the end of March to be generous.
"The EU have also said that hauliers from the UK can carry export goods to EU markets but they cannot make multiple journeys from EU country to EU country and thus the costs of haulage could rise as well.
"The combination of significant tariffs when none exist now, friction and checks at the border when none exist now and requirements to re-route or pay more for transport when current arrangements are frictionless, will all add to costs for producers.""
That wasn't all Michael Gove said at the Oxford Farming conference though was it OP. Gove also said there that he thinks Leave would win a 2nd referendum with an even bigger margin than before, and more people would vote for Brexit now than before. He also went onto say that even though he thinks leave would win a 2nd referendum, he still thinks it would be a bad idea to have one, as it would do irreparable damage to our democracy, and would give the SNP and Scottish nationalists a greater argument with more legitimacy for a 2nd indy referendum in Scotland.
Wonder why you left that bit out? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Michael Gove, addressing the Oxford Farming Conference today:
"I know that some of the predictions about what might happen without a deal have been dismissed as another episode of Project Fear, a re-run of the lurid claims in the 2016 referendum that a vote to leave would trigger an automatic recession.
"At the time, I vigorously rejected those projections and indeed was criticised by some for being too dismissive of expert opinion. Well, no recession came and the economic forecasts turned out to be unfounded.
"But while Project Fear proved to be fiction, when we look at what a no-deal Brexit could involve we do need to be clear about the costs and facts.
"A no-deal Brexit means we would face overall tariff rates of around 11% on agricultural products. But some sectors would be much more severely affected.
"It’s a grim but inescapable fact that in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the effective tariffs on beef and sheep meat would be above 40% - in some cases well above that.
"While exchange rates might take some of the strain, the costs imposed by new tariffs would undoubtedly exceed any adjustment in the currency markets. And, of course, if the pound does make exports more competitive, it also feeds inflationary pressures at home.
"Tariffs are not the only issue. While the EU have pledged to accelerate the process whereby the UK is recognised as a third country and we can continue to export food to their markets freely, all products of animal origin will have to go through border inspection posts and, at the moment, the EU have said 100% of products will face sanitary and phytosanitary checks.
"Much of our trade currently reaches European markets through the narrow straits between Dover and Calais. At the moment there are no border inspection posts at Calais. While we do hope the French take steps to build capacity there, that capacity is unlikely by the end of March to be generous.
"The EU have also said that hauliers from the UK can carry export goods to EU markets but they cannot make multiple journeys from EU country to EU country and thus the costs of haulage could rise as well.
"The combination of significant tariffs when none exist now, friction and checks at the border when none exist now and requirements to re-route or pay more for transport when current arrangements are frictionless, will all add to costs for producers."
That wasn't all Michael Gove said at the Oxford Farming conference though was it OP. Gove also said there that he thinks Leave would win a 2nd referendum with an even bigger margin than before, and more people would vote for Brexit now than before. He also went onto say that even though he thinks leave would win a 2nd referendum, he still thinks it would be a bad idea to have one, as it would do irreparable damage to our democracy, and would give the SNP and Scottish nationalists a greater argument with more legitimacy for a 2nd indy referendum in Scotland.
Wonder why you left that bit out? "
You are genuinely odd in how you address anything that you find awkward.
You ignore it completely and discuss something else obliquely related in an attempt to change the argument.
Always.
Is the damage that Gove is predicting from no deal lies? Is he now a traitor?
Now that you bring it up though, if he believes that you would win a second referendum by a larger margin, why don't you want one?
Why don't you back Farage's position that 48:52 would be unfinished business?
You don't care about Scotland anyway. You want England isolated and on its own in the world to prove its "greatness". Not Britain.
I wonder why you never answer a direct question? |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth .
You’re slightly missing the point. Remainers predictions were not just wrong, but were fabricated lies and propaganda to trick people into voting remain. That was project fear.
Now, a staunch leaver, who called project fear an irrational picture of life outside the EU seems to be on the agreeing with them.
Which either says Gove has joined in the propaganda project. Or that the remainers were not making up propoganda but may have a view of the world which could be legitimate. That is, some of the bad news is things they believe to be possible, not stuff they don’t believe, but say anyway to achieve their ends.
I think it's fair to say that remain did predict chaos, however, they were right it will be, what they got wrong was the timetable! Everybody thought it would happen from day 1 - they were wrong - all we have seen is a gradual decline - other than the £.
As it had never happened before nobody really knew. The same can be said about Leave - they are predicting "boom" - so 30th March is boom day? "
I was an analyst working on fairly widely quoted market projections prior to the Brexit referendum. All of our models were projecting what would happen after we left but we haven't left yet. So I've no idea what people are talking about when they say we got them wrong. On our most recent published review (Nov 2018) most of our projections are looking to be within our stated margin of error.
The idea that warnings were misleading is a myth peddled by people who don't understand the models. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth .
You’re slightly missing the point. Remainers predictions were not just wrong, but were fabricated lies and propaganda to trick people into voting remain. That was project fear.
Now, a staunch leaver, who called project fear an irrational picture of life outside the EU seems to be on the agreeing with them.
Which either says Gove has joined in the propaganda project. Or that the remainers were not making up propoganda but may have a view of the world which could be legitimate. That is, some of the bad news is things they believe to be possible, not stuff they don’t believe, but say anyway to achieve their ends.
I think it's fair to say that remain did predict chaos, however, they were right it will be, what they got wrong was the timetable! Everybody thought it would happen from day 1 - they were wrong - all we have seen is a gradual decline - other than the £.
As it had never happened before nobody really knew. The same can be said about Leave - they are predicting "boom" - so 30th March is boom day?
I was an analyst working on fairly widely quoted market projections prior to the Brexit referendum. All of our models were projecting what would happen after we left but we haven't left yet. So I've no idea what people are talking about when they say we got them wrong. On our most recent published review (Nov 2018) most of our projections are looking to be within our stated margin of error.
The idea that warnings were misleading is a myth peddled by people who don't understand the models. "
It was the treasury paper forecasting the period of time after the vote (and before leaving).
It made a number of assumptions (immediate article 50) and missed out a couple of “management actions” (QE) and was exec summaried by George O who used the word recession (the report talked about deltas to not leaving, no absolutes).
As there was no reccedsion (gdp across the Eu trended up) and because QE helped prop up the economy, it’s called out as being lies.
Even though Gove is now pedalling the same impacts once we leave the Eu. |
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"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth .
You’re slightly missing the point. Remainers predictions were not just wrong, but were fabricated lies and propaganda to trick people into voting remain. That was project fear.
Now, a staunch leaver, who called project fear an irrational picture of life outside the EU seems to be on the agreeing with them.
Which either says Gove has joined in the propaganda project. Or that the remainers were not making up propoganda but may have a view of the world which could be legitimate. That is, some of the bad news is things they believe to be possible, not stuff they don’t believe, but say anyway to achieve their ends.
I think it's fair to say that remain did predict chaos, however, they were right it will be, what they got wrong was the timetable! Everybody thought it would happen from day 1 - they were wrong - all we have seen is a gradual decline - other than the £.
As it had never happened before nobody really knew. The same can be said about Leave - they are predicting "boom" - so 30th March is boom day?
I was an analyst working on fairly widely quoted market projections prior to the Brexit referendum. All of our models were projecting what would happen after we left but we haven't left yet. So I've no idea what people are talking about when they say we got them wrong. On our most recent published review (Nov 2018) most of our projections are looking to be within our stated margin of error.
The idea that warnings were misleading is a myth peddled by people who don't understand the models.
It was the treasury paper forecasting the period of time after the vote (and before leaving).
It made a number of assumptions (immediate article 50) and missed out a couple of “management actions” (QE) and was exec summaried by George O who used the word recession (the report talked about deltas to not leaving, no absolutes).
As there was no reccedsion (gdp across the Eu trended up) and because QE helped prop up the economy, it’s called out as being lies.
Even though Gove is now pedalling the same impacts once we leave the Eu. "
I've studied almost every paper the Treasury has published on Brexit impact analysis very closely. No lies in any of it.
If you're characterising a modelling assumption as a lie then you don't understand modelling. |
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There was a comment thing on twitter around Xmas about such thing here i ended up actually in conversation with a couple of farmers. As I was interested in how it would effect them. It was grim but I don't think that it would be a life time grim just a slow adjustment over time and they were happy to chat as i get that they are not being heard.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The Sequel - Project Fear 2 !
this is your government minister for DEFRA talking about agriculture issues to farmers.... about something that would happen in 3 months times...
the NFU have been warning about this exact situation since the vote was announced....
and the minister in question was one of the prime movers in the leave campaign.....
and you still want to call it project fear..... un-fucking-believable!
I’m sure the vast majority of remainers thought Gove an absolute Tosser . Now he is the absolute teller of truth .
You’re slightly missing the point. Remainers predictions were not just wrong, but were fabricated lies and propaganda to trick people into voting remain. That was project fear.
Now, a staunch leaver, who called project fear an irrational picture of life outside the EU seems to be on the agreeing with them.
Which either says Gove has joined in the propaganda project. Or that the remainers were not making up propoganda but may have a view of the world which could be legitimate. That is, some of the bad news is things they believe to be possible, not stuff they don’t believe, but say anyway to achieve their ends.
I think it's fair to say that remain did predict chaos, however, they were right it will be, what they got wrong was the timetable! Everybody thought it would happen from day 1 - they were wrong - all we have seen is a gradual decline - other than the £.
As it had never happened before nobody really knew. The same can be said about Leave - they are predicting "boom" - so 30th March is boom day?
I was an analyst working on fairly widely quoted market projections prior to the Brexit referendum. All of our models were projecting what would happen after we left but we haven't left yet. So I've no idea what people are talking about when they say we got them wrong. On our most recent published review (Nov 2018) most of our projections are looking to be within our stated margin of error.
The idea that warnings were misleading is a myth peddled by people who don't understand the models.
It was the treasury paper forecasting the period of time after the vote (and before leaving).
It made a number of assumptions (immediate article 50) and missed out a couple of “management actions” (QE) and was exec summaried by George O who used the word recession (the report talked about deltas to not leaving, no absolutes).
As there was no reccedsion (gdp across the Eu trended up) and because QE helped prop up the economy, it’s called out as being lies.
Even though Gove is now pedalling the same impacts once we leave the Eu.
I've studied almost every paper the Treasury has published on Brexit impact analysis very closely. No lies in any of it.
If you're characterising a modelling assumption as a lie then you don't understand modelling."
Don’t disagree.
Personally I think they over estimated the effect of uncertainty. Especially on a personal level, as by the very fact they’re assuming a leave vote, the majority of the contrybwould be “Brexit positive” and so not wary about the future. But they set this out clearly as an assumption allowing people to adjust.
Indeed, if you say, based on 50% of people are brexit positive, the impact will be 50% of that modelled, you get pretty good estimates imo. Eg depressed, but not terrible, growth. |
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