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Tories held to ransom by the unions?
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
"
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ? |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?"
You don't seriously believe a Tory Minister say rail fare rises are because they caved into the demands of th union?
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?
You don't seriously believe a Tory Minister say rail fare rises are because they caved into the demands of th union?
"
Was the question too difficult ? |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?
You don't seriously believe a Tory Minister say rail fare rises are because they caved into the demands of th union?
Was the question too difficult ?"
You want to evaluate the relative worth of a nurse versus the relative worth of a train driver?
Who mentioned drivers?
Grayling mentioned railway unions, not drivers.
Why bring nurses into it?
Their salary doesn't affect rail fares.
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?
You don't seriously believe a Tory Minister say rail fare rises are because they caved into the demands of th union?
Was the question too difficult ?
You want to evaluate the relative worth of a nurse versus the relative worth of a train driver?
Who mentioned drivers?
Grayling mentioned railway unions, not drivers.
Why bring nurses into it?
Their salary doesn't affect rail fares.
"
Obviously yes it was too difficult  |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I can fly from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back for a fraction of what I can go by train from Bristol to London and back.
The pilot of the plane earns twice the salary of the driver of the train.
Yet the ticket is half the price.
Can you explain that? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?"
a) you are comparing apples to oranges since one are public employees and one are now private employees, since remember it was the government who made the railway companies private....
b) the reason why train drivers are in such a strong position is that those private rail companies under-employ, or deliberately under-train new train drivers, which is why even if train drivers don't need to even go on strike! if they just "work to rule" on their full time contracts (like southern train drivers did), the operators don't have enough drivers to cover all their services!
c) the current government know they don't have enough nurses in the NHS, which is why they get them from other EU countries (they can't get them from outside the EU because they would not earn enough under the current work permit relations)
d) the government don't even honour the independent pay board recommendations they set up to advise them on nurses pay..... thats why lots of them leave for the us, or canada, or australia, or new zealand, or the middle ease ect ect ect.... |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I can fly from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back for a fraction of what I can go by train from Bristol to London and back.
The pilot of the plane earns twice the salary of the driver of the train.
Yet the ticket is half the price.
Can you explain that?"
Have you forgotten the originaal question ? |
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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I can fly from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back for a fraction of what I can go by train from Bristol to London and back.
The pilot of the plane earns twice the salary of the driver of the train.
Yet the ticket is half the price.
Can you explain that?
Have you forgotten the originaal question ? "
Nurses' pay is a valid topic. Start a thread about it if you think there is an injustice.
Rail fares don't go to the NHS, so what's the relevance?
Other than to derail the thread.
(I'll get my coat) |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?
a) you are comparing apples to oranges since one are public employees and one are now private employees, since remember it was the government who made the railway companies private....
b) the reason why train drivers are in such a strong position is that those private rail companies under-employ, or deliberately under-train new train drivers, which is why even if train drivers don't need to even go on strike! if they just "work to rule" on their full time contracts (like southern train drivers did), the operators don't have enough drivers to cover all their services!
c) the current government know they don't have enough nurses in the NHS, which is why they get them from other EU countries (they can't get them from outside the EU because they would not earn enough under the current work permit relations)
d) the government don't even honour the independent pay board recommendations they set up to advise them on nurses pay..... thats why lots of them leave for the us, or canada, or australia, or new zealand, or the middle ease ect ect ect...."
Tube drivers earn even more and are public employees whereas london bus drivers are mostly private employees yet earn half so that blows your public/private reason out the water.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?
a) you are comparing apples to oranges since one are public employees and one are now private employees, since remember it was the government who made the railway companies private....
b) the reason why train drivers are in such a strong position is that those private rail companies under-employ, or deliberately under-train new train drivers, which is why even if train drivers don't need to even go on strike! if they just "work to rule" on their full time contracts (like southern train drivers did), the operators don't have enough drivers to cover all their services!
c) the current government know they don't have enough nurses in the NHS, which is why they get them from other EU countries (they can't get them from outside the EU because they would not earn enough under the current work permit relations)
d) the government don't even honour the independent pay board recommendations they set up to advise them on nurses pay..... thats why lots of them leave for the us, or canada, or australia, or new zealand, or the middle ease ect ect ect....
Tube drivers earn even more and are public employees whereas london bus drivers are mostly private employees yet earn half so that blows your public/private reason out the water.
"
a) actually not quite.... in london bus services are "contracted" where they have to run certain services at a minimum level, what they then do after that if up to them....
b) again... there are enough Tube drivers to run the services with having to rely on them doing overtime.... that is not the case of the national rail network! the run the services they timetable they rely on a certain amount of overtime being done! that why aslef have such a strong hand... even if they just worked the contracted hours, they don't have enough people to run all the services....
thats what has happened on the southern frnachise, it happened on thameslink, it has happened on the great western franchise!! (close to home!) |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?
a) you are comparing apples to oranges since one are public employees and one are now private employees, since remember it was the government who made the railway companies private....
b) the reason why train drivers are in such a strong position is that those private rail companies under-employ, or deliberately under-train new train drivers, which is why even if train drivers don't need to even go on strike! if they just "work to rule" on their full time contracts (like southern train drivers did), the operators don't have enough drivers to cover all their services!
c) the current government know they don't have enough nurses in the NHS, which is why they get them from other EU countries (they can't get them from outside the EU because they would not earn enough under the current work permit relations)
d) the government don't even honour the independent pay board recommendations they set up to advise them on nurses pay..... thats why lots of them leave for the us, or canada, or australia, or new zealand, or the middle ease ect ect ect....
Tube drivers earn even more and are public employees whereas london bus drivers are mostly private employees yet earn half so that blows your public/private reason out the water.
a) actually not quite.... in london bus services are "contracted" where they have to run certain services at a minimum level, what they then do after that if up to them....
b) again... there are enough Tube drivers to run the services with having to rely on them doing overtime.... that is not the case of the national rail network! the run the services they timetable they rely on a certain amount of overtime being done! that why aslef have such a strong hand... even if they just worked the contracted hours, they don't have enough people to run all the services....
thats what has happened on the southern frnachise, it happened on thameslink, it has happened on the great western franchise!! (close to home!)"
Tube drivers earn a lot more than train drivers |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I can fly from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back for a fraction of what I can go by train from Bristol to London and back.
The pilot of the plane earns twice the salary of the driver of the train.
Yet the ticket is half the price.
Can you explain that?"
I know two train drivers that are on c£77k per annum.
Fabio is correct on the fact that drivers are in short supply. Some drivers even "moonlight" for other companies to further boost their wages.
The simple fact is that if workers want an inflation equal pay rise, it has to be paid for somehow. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Did you year Chris Grayling?
Justifiying rail fare increases.
All down to the ability of the rail unions to increase the pay of their members.
Well, good on the union!
So who should be paid more nurses or train drivers ?"
Nurses should be paid more than train drivers.
Nurses should be paid more than bankers.
What is the relevance of this question? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can fly from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back for a fraction of what I can go by train from Bristol to London and back.
The pilot of the plane earns twice the salary of the driver of the train.
Yet the ticket is half the price.
Can you explain that?
Have you forgotten the originaal question ? "
If you need to catch a train then train drivers.
If you are in hospital then nurses
That answers your question! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
the reason why rail fare went up is that there is a "rail fare esculator" in place.... which say the "average" on the day any route ticket can only go up by a maximum of "inflation +1%", inflation last october was 2.1%.... hence where we get the 3.1% increase from!
that is a seperate argument as to why aslef are in such a strong negoiating re train drivers...
as both i and _ercury explained... there are actually not enough train drivers employed to run all scheduled services without doing overtime! which is why if drivers just did the hrs on their contracts (work to rule)... they would still have to cancel a shed load of services!
they don't need to strike to create issues... and thats why there is a problem!
on the london underground and on london buses there are enough trained drivers where they can cover all scheduled services |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Commuters who use season tickets are largely protected from large fare increases. These fall under "regulated fares" which the Government control with the RPI + 1% formula. After all, which Government wants to piss off a large vote mass of the commuters.
It's the "turn up on the day and have to travel now" passengers that get hit the most. They are at the mercy of "unregulated fares" that the train companies are allowed to set. For years now, the operating companies have been using higher prices to regulate demand on overcrowded services.
Drivers are normally contracted to do a set amount of shifts per year. The majority do more to gain the overtime but still flex their muscles by refusing to work certain days, as they are entitled to do as per their contracts. Drivers at Nottingham always have a "barbeque Sunday" in the summer, where they withdraw their services en mass and services have to be operated by buses.
Happily, a driver training school now operates at Derby, and extra drivers are being trained. |
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I find it quite outrageous how so many people can be triggered to outrage by a tory complaining that a union has the power to force employers to pay its members enough that they can afford to rent (or maybe even buy a flat) in the capital (where they work) because nurses can't do the same. But not a word about the shits who pay themselves millions for sitting on their fat arses round a big table for a for a few hours a month doing fuck all!
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