FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Are there any optimists?
Are there any optimists?
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"I agree we should have such a nice life for all everywhere but there are always the extremists who want to force thier religions on everyone who will destroy anything or anyone who is not a slave to thier faith " I'm more talking about ideological extremists | |||
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"Your suspicions are close, we're fucked but not quite yet. There's a civil war coming along sometime soon, the causes have been there for a long long time, it's just taken awhile for it to manifest and manifest it has. The days of logic and reasoning were ten years gone by, nobody cares for your arguments anymore, your just wasting your breath, your from Ireland, surely you understand about snapping points and how uncontrollable they are after it's snapped?." I don't get the snapping point reference? You sound like a sane man. The sudden unexplained rise of feminism in 2015 when all I could see around me was my female peers having a great life was the canary in the mine about the accelerating effect of the internet on bad ideas. I used to think the average person was reasonably astute but now I know I'm surrounded by easily manipulated fools. Logic has been overtaken by well crafted ideologies that prey on human weaknesses. Build an enemy and sell the solution stuff (at a nice profit). | |||
"Your suspicions are close, we're fucked but not quite yet. There's a civil war coming along sometime soon, the causes have been there for a long long time, it's just taken awhile for it to manifest and manifest it has. The days of logic and reasoning were ten years gone by, nobody cares for your arguments anymore, your just wasting your breath, your from Ireland, surely you understand about snapping points and how uncontrollable they are after it's snapped?. I don't get the snapping point reference? You sound like a sane man. The sudden unexplained rise of feminism in 2015 when all I could see around me was my female peers having a great life was the canary in the mine about the accelerating effect of the internet on bad ideas. I used to think the average person was reasonably astute but now I know I'm surrounded by easily manipulated fools. Logic has been overtaken by well crafted ideologies that prey on human weaknesses. Build an enemy and sell the solution stuff (at a nice profit). " . Them and us has always existed and always will, they know it and we know it, for every action there's an equal an opposite reaction, we put up with shit fostered upon us only because the terms of business allow it. Well those terms of business are over, anybody who's watching closely enough sees it, don't you?. I only have you suggestion for you, if you have over a hundred grand in the bank move somewhere else but pick your move wisely, this virus is contagious | |||
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"It's not that drastic (here at least) - remember this is about optimism, I'm just annoyed that collectively we've lost our minds. Very few original thoughts in this forum, everyone just parrots the party line of their chosen ideology and trips over their own hypocrisy. Everyone needs a disaster story to be seduced by. For feminists it's the nameless faceless patriarchy For gammons it's immigrants and the islamification of Europe (flat earth stuff) and/or the imminent collapse of the EU with aside serving of poppy syrup For fiscal lefties it's BIG MONEY beating them up for their lunch money For red necks it's the cult of their charismatic don't give a fuck "leader" fighting off Mexicans from taking their jawbs and wimmin. " . That's because your in a white wealthy bubble, go and live in some parts of any city in England and come back and tell me about this bullshit islamification. Go and live in rural Lincolnshire where every third person doesn't speak English and then complain to me about how it's the other persons fault for not getting with the globalists new world order and if only humans weren't tribalistic by evolution and nature then everything would be grand!. Get with the program, we've all got to be computer programmers, coal mining is over, get with the program you can't afford four kids, get with the program your not having enough kids we need immigration because your not having enough kids, get with the program your a white male and your the scum of the earth. Well we've got to realise that the program doesn't have our best interests at heart and never did. | |||
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"And while your all condemning the finical industry let's remember that it was centrists who said the deal is up on industry, you've all got to move on to working in finance and selling insurance this was the UK's new Messiah industry, the Messiah that touched everything and turned it into shit, well done liberal centrists I just can't see why everyone fucking hates you?" You've gone off piste....I'm lost. Can you explain what your beef with centrists is? Better than hard left or hard right! Is all this just a failure of people to adapt to change? (I'm failing to adapt to a shift to populist bollox but it is what it is - I'm talking fiscally and demographics) | |||
"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. " Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. " Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom" I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. | |||
"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something " I don’t think you understand the scale of the the financial industry. I would need more than a bunch of mates chipping in to make it anything like worthwhile. I do help charities that help the homeless, both with time and with regular donations. | |||
"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something I don’t think you understand the scale of the the financial industry. I would need more than a bunch of mates chipping in to make it anything like worthwhile. I do help charities that help the homeless, both with time and with regular donations. " Gofundme - you'd get lots of support. | |||
"And while your all condemning the finical industry let's remember that it was centrists who said the deal is up on industry, you've all got to move on to working in finance and selling insurance this was the UK's new Messiah industry, the Messiah that touched everything and turned it into shit, well done liberal centrists I just can't see why everyone fucking hates you? You've gone off piste....I'm lost. Can you explain what your beef with centrists is? Better than hard left or hard right! Is all this just a failure of people to adapt to change? (I'm failing to adapt to a shift to populist bollox but it is what it is - I'm talking fiscally and demographics)" The problem here is defining what’s centre. The policies and rhetoric promoted by the likes of Corbyn would have been centrist in the 1970s. The current political landscape is in the midst of a heavy swing to the right. So now he gets described as “hard left”. Most of his policies are straight out of the Tories pre-thatcher book. Anyone on here who questions Brexit gets labelled “hard left”, “libtard”, “loony left”. Etc etc. The vast majority of these are not “hard left” at all. There are a small handful of far right on here, then most people are relatively centrist. | |||
"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something I don’t think you understand the scale of the the financial industry. I would need more than a bunch of mates chipping in to make it anything like worthwhile. I do help charities that help the homeless, both with time and with regular donations. Gofundme - you'd get lots of support. " You cannot invest other people’s money in stocks, shares and assets like this. There are a vast array of laws based on suitably of financial products to the investor and there are laws around money laundering etc. I could go on explaining why this is not possible, but this should be enough: | |||
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"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something I don’t think you understand the scale of the the financial industry. I would need more than a bunch of mates chipping in to make it anything like worthwhile. I do help charities that help the homeless, both with time and with regular donations. Gofundme - you'd get lots of support. You cannot invest other people’s money in stocks, shares and assets like this. There are a vast array of laws based on suitably of financial products to the investor and there are laws around money laundering etc. I could go on explaining why this is not possible, but this should be enough:" You lack creativity. I was thinking if you got enough support you could trade against your enemy and bankrupt him 
But that would involve risk and doing stuff and owning up to the fact that nothing is a certainty | |||
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"It's not that drastic (here at least) - remember this is about optimism, I'm just annoyed that collectively we've lost our minds. Very few original thoughts in this forum, everyone just parrots the party line of their chosen ideology and trips over their own hypocrisy. Everyone needs a disaster story to be seduced by. For feminists it's the nameless faceless patriarchy For gammons it's immigrants and the islamification of Europe (flat earth stuff) and/or the imminent collapse of the EU with aside serving of poppy syrup For fiscal lefties it's BIG MONEY beating them up for their lunch money For red necks it's the cult of their charismatic don't give a fuck "leader" fighting off Mexicans from taking their jawbs and wimmin. . That's because your in a white wealthy bubble, go and live in some parts of any city in England and come back and tell me about this bullshit islamification. Go and live in rural Lincolnshire where every third person doesn't speak English and then complain to me about how it's the other persons fault for not getting with the globalists new world order and if only humans weren't tribalistic by evolution and nature then everything would be grand!. Get with the program, we've all got to be computer programmers, coal mining is over, get with the program you can't afford four kids, get with the program your not having enough kids we need immigration because your not having enough kids, get with the program your a white male and your the scum of the earth. Well we've got to realise that the program doesn't have our best interests at heart and never did." We're supposed to eat only avocados and chia seeds and kangaroo steaks just like our paleo ancestors (lol) and yet most people prefer mcdonalds. Human nature adapts. Little kids (pre-parental programming) are never racist to each other, it's not in their nature | |||
"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something I don’t think you understand the scale of the the financial industry. I would need more than a bunch of mates chipping in to make it anything like worthwhile. I do help charities that help the homeless, both with time and with regular donations. Gofundme - you'd get lots of support. You cannot invest other people’s money in stocks, shares and assets like this. There are a vast array of laws based on suitably of financial products to the investor and there are laws around money laundering etc. I could go on explaining why this is not possible, but this should be enough: You lack creativity. I was thinking if you got enough support you could trade against your enemy and bankrupt him
But that would involve risk and doing stuff and owning up to the fact that nothing is a certainty "I commented on this tread originally asking if “blind” optimism counted in the OPs point. I don’t know why you’re having a go at me for not starting my own rival investment company to bankrupt JRM. I assume you realise that the barrier to this is more than my lack of creativity? | |||
"Do you include blind optimism? Because plenty on here have bags of blind optimism. Yeah but you have blind pessimism yourself. Get your mate togethers and crowdfund the JRM trade that you keep banging on about - give the proceeds to the homeless! Take action, do something I don’t think you understand the scale of the the financial industry. I would need more than a bunch of mates chipping in to make it anything like worthwhile. I do help charities that help the homeless, both with time and with regular donations. Gofundme - you'd get lots of support. You cannot invest other people’s money in stocks, shares and assets like this. There are a vast array of laws based on suitably of financial products to the investor and there are laws around money laundering etc. I could go on explaining why this is not possible, but this should be enough: You lack creativity. I was thinking if you got enough support you could trade against your enemy and bankrupt him
But that would involve risk and doing stuff and owning up to the fact that nothing is a certainty
I commented on this tread originally asking if “blind” optimism counted in the OPs point.
I don’t know why you’re having a go at me for not starting my own rival investment company to bankrupt JRM. I assume you realise that the barrier to this is more than my lack of creativity?"I'm just having a laugh. You do fall into the extreme views against the BIG MONEY boogeyman camp though based on recent posts. You should temper your view with optimism. I contend that the working poor to middle class go out of their way to give the rich as much of their money as possible. "Disposable income" This is borne out in any rich list. That Spanish guy who owns Zara as one example. | |||
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"I'm optimistic about my financial future and my family .I am financially secure. I'm not at all optimistic about the ecosystems and the rest of life on earth but I'm a realist and have little faith in humanity making the right choices this century . "100%. I am likely to survive Brexit with a roof over my head. Others may not, and it’s the likes of leading Brexiteers who stand to make huge amount of money from everyone else’s downfall that pisses me off. But as you say, this is all small fry compared to the degradation of the earths biosphere through climate change. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. " In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? " No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. " IMVHO the biggest problems we have are 1 Too many of us for the planet to sustain 2 the increasing gap between the very rich( imo thats those earning £100,000 a year) and the poor 3 The unsustainable demand for economic growth which is in my view based on very dodgy ideas. 4 the refusal of those in charge to see any of these problems 5 the refusal of those in charge to realise that there is a huge increase in anger at them and those who are hell bent on greed. Many of these are leading us down the road to problems, in the past this has led to war where the survivors have been just glad to live, these days the weapons can destroy us all | |||
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"Populism bingo. Did you read nothing of the posts above?! The population thing is a myth, the rest I can't be arsed educating you about. " But its NOT populism its the REAL life of people who are losing out. If you believe we can go on increasing the population then there is no hope, not only in terms of food/water/energy or space but in terms of quality of life but also in terms of pollution | |||
Populism is for small minded jealous fools.
You would think in an era of information technology that we might learn something!
Low resolution ideas for low resolution people. | |||
"Populism bingo. Did you read nothing of the posts above?! The population thing is a myth, the rest I can't be arsed educating you about. But its NOT populism its the REAL life of people who are losing out. If you believe we can go on increasing the population then there is no hope, not only in terms of food/water/energy or space but in terms of quality of life but also in terms of pollution" . Tell me how bad your life really is?! Look around at your warm house filled with food and gifts as you sit on your arse in front and enjoy a laptop or phone and high speed internet. Your rank stupidity is really pissing me off. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. " You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. " The bigger picture always eludes you | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. The bigger picture always eludes you "No, it really doesn't. People are rebelling all over the world against globalism. You can continue to sit in your warm house, filled with gifts and food, while you type shit on your phone to post on here over high speed Internet, but just because it's worked for you it doesn't mean it's worked for everyone. Globalism still means there are people out there homeless, freezing their asses off and sleeping rough on the streets in the West, people visiting food banks so they don't starve to death. In the 3rd world globalism still means people still work in slave like conditions for a pittance of pay, who can barely afford food, much less a roof over their heads. Globalism has been tried and tested and it is a failure. Back to the drawing board for you. | |||
"Populism bingo. Did you read nothing of the posts above?! The population thing is a myth, the rest I can't be arsed educating you about. But its NOT populism its the REAL life of people who are losing out. If you believe we can go on increasing the population then there is no hope, not only in terms of food/water/energy or space but in terms of quality of life but also in terms of pollution . Tell me how bad your life really is?! Look around at your warm house filled with food and gifts as you sit on your arse in front and enjoy a laptop or phone and high speed internet. Your rank stupidity is really pissing me off. " The difference is I know how lucky I was to be born into the situation I was and despite the fact that I have taken what I was given and increased it a lot I still am thankful that I have been lucky with many business decisions I have taken, the problem with the "clever" people they dont and look down on those whose start in life wasnt as good, why should a banker earn more in a single years bonus than a care worker will in their lifetime, I know which is more useful to society, we need to revalue people and their roles in society. Thats not to say I believe we should take from the better off and give to the workshy but we need to reward those in what the clever people look down on as low skilled jobs better, if God forbid we end up in a global meltdown and war it wont be the bankers and penpushers who rebuild us but those with real life skills | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. The bigger picture always eludes you
No, it really doesn't. People are rebelling all over the world against globalism. You can continue to sit in your warm house, filled with gifts and food, while you type shit on your phone to post on here over high speed Internet, but just because it's worked for you it doesn't mean it's worked for everyone. Globalism still means there are people out there homeless, freezing their asses off and sleeping rough on the streets in the West, people visiting food banks so they don't starve to death. In the 3rd world globalism still means people still work in slave like conditions for a pittance of pay, who can barely afford food, much less a roof over their heads. Globalism has been tried and tested and it is a failure. Back to the drawing board for you. "The people left behind in this country have been failed by their own Government. Globalisation is an inevitable form of human evolution and unless you want to emulate N Korea - you just have to adapt. It is ironic that you see globalisation as the failing but not National Government. The problems that you allude to can almost be eradicated just by a progressive tax system. The U.K. tax code is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century and until any Government is prepared to stand tall and say that we all need to pay more taxes - then the race to the bottom will continue. This is the great tragedy of Brexit. So many people feeling left behind and disenfranchised were led to believe by outrageously wealthy people that the fault lay in Brussels. It doesn’t. The fault lies in Westminster and always has. What people voted for will make those very people worse off, not better off, Just read what Patrick Zminford hinself has admitted. The only chance of Brexit being a success is to reduce all import taxes to zero and (his words) “this will finally precipitate the end of large scale manufacturing in this country.” The fantasy then is that country circulated its own wealth by providing services for each other. Se we lose hi tech vehicle and aerospace manufacturing jobs and getmore opportunities waiting on and selling beer. That will not improve anyone’s life. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. The bigger picture always eludes you
No, it really doesn't. People are rebelling all over the world against globalism. You can continue to sit in your warm house, filled with gifts and food, while you type shit on your phone to post on here over high speed Internet, but just because it's worked for you it doesn't mean it's worked for everyone. Globalism still means there are people out there homeless, freezing their asses off and sleeping rough on the streets in the West, people visiting food banks so they don't starve to death. In the 3rd world globalism still means people still work in slave like conditions for a pittance of pay, who can barely afford food, much less a roof over their heads. Globalism has been tried and tested and it is a failure. Back to the drawing board for you.
The people left behind in this country have been failed by their own Government. Globalisation is an inevitable form of human evolution and unless you want to emulate N Korea - you just have to adapt.
It is ironic that you see globalisation as the failing but not National Government. The problems that you allude to can almost be eradicated just by a progressive tax system. The U.K. tax code is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century and until any Government is prepared to stand tall and say that we all need to pay more taxes - then the race to the bottom will continue.
This is the great tragedy of Brexit. So many people feeling left behind and disenfranchised were led to believe by outrageously wealthy people that the fault lay in Brussels. It doesn’t. The fault lies in Westminster and always has. What people voted for will make those very people worse off, not better off,
Just read what Patrick Zminford hinself has admitted. The only chance of Brexit being a success is to reduce all import taxes to zero and (his words) “this will finally precipitate the end of large scale manufacturing in this country.” The fantasy then is that country circulated its own wealth by providing services for each other. Se we lose hi tech vehicle and aerospace manufacturing jobs and getmore opportunities waiting on and selling beer.
That will not improve anyone’s life."You do know what the average tariffs on industrial products are I assume ? | |||
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"Ah the good old I'm clever your'e thick argument." Your argument is stupid - you haven't even tried to defend it. | |||
"Ah the good old I'm clever your'e thick argument. Your argument is stupid - you haven't even tried to defend it. " You really are hilarious. Scrolling through this thread, all you've done is proclaim how stupid other people are (and repeat your sad little 'low resolution' catchphrase for about the 100th time). But you haven't made a single original observation or interesting point as to how to address modern problems. As much as Centy talks bollocks, at least he actually makes a specific arguement beyond 'I'm smart, you're not, you're low resolution! low resolution!' | |||
"Ah the good old I'm clever your'e thick argument. Your argument is stupid - you haven't even tried to defend it. You really are hilarious. Scrolling through this thread, all you've done is proclaim how stupid other people are (and repeat your sad little 'low resolution' catchphrase for about the 100th time). But you haven't made a single original observation or interesting point as to how to address modern problems. As much as Centy talks bollocks, at least he actually makes a specific arguement beyond 'I'm smart, you're not, you're low resolution! low resolution!' "  | |||
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"Global warming is something that must be addressed, whether you are on any part of an optimist or pessimist spectrum, if humans are to continue their lives, alongside as much of the rest of the natural world as possible. "
I read an article about easter island. How a colony of people arriving there, turned a lush island full of flora and forns into a barron rock in the space of 100 years. "easter island, a warning for the future" i tbink it was called | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. The bigger picture always eludes you
No, it really doesn't. People are rebelling all over the world against globalism. You can continue to sit in your warm house, filled with gifts and food, while you type shit on your phone to post on here over high speed Internet, but just because it's worked for you it doesn't mean it's worked for everyone. Globalism still means there are people out there homeless, freezing their asses off and sleeping rough on the streets in the West, people visiting food banks so they don't starve to death. In the 3rd world globalism still means people still work in slave like conditions for a pittance of pay, who can barely afford food, much less a roof over their heads. Globalism has been tried and tested and it is a failure. Back to the drawing board for you.
The people left behind in this country have been failed by their own Government. Globalisation is an inevitable form of human evolution and unless you want to emulate N Korea - you just have to adapt.
It is ironic that you see globalisation as the failing but not National Government. The problems that you allude to can almost be eradicated just by a progressive tax system. The U.K. tax code is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century and until any Government is prepared to stand tall and say that we all need to pay more taxes - then the race to the bottom will continue.
This is the great tragedy of Brexit. So many people feeling left behind and disenfranchised were led to believe by outrageously wealthy people that the fault lay in Brussels. It doesn’t. The fault lies in Westminster and always has. What people voted for will make those very people worse off, not better off,
Just read what Patrick Zminford hinself has admitted. The only chance of Brexit being a success is to reduce all import taxes to zero and (his words) “this will finally precipitate the end of large scale manufacturing in this country.” The fantasy then is that country circulated its own wealth by providing services for each other. Se we lose hi tech vehicle and aerospace manufacturing jobs and getmore opportunities waiting on and selling beer.
That will not improve anyone’s life."The EU and Brussels is part of the problem, not the solution. It's a neo-liberal protection racket, that is undemocratic, corrupt and is in the pocket of big business and multi nationals. The EU has now centralised too much power in Brussels, while becoming bigger and bigger by adding more countries that it has become unmanageable. Like all empires throughout history that became too big have failed, so the EU will too, and the writing is already on the wall that it's in decline. Decentralisation of power back to the people is the best way forward for the future, and that's the way things are heading, whether you like it or not. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. The bigger picture always eludes you
No, it really doesn't. People are rebelling all over the world against globalism. You can continue to sit in your warm house, filled with gifts and food, while you type shit on your phone to post on here over high speed Internet, but just because it's worked for you it doesn't mean it's worked for everyone. Globalism still means there are people out there homeless, freezing their asses off and sleeping rough on the streets in the West, people visiting food banks so they don't starve to death. In the 3rd world globalism still means people still work in slave like conditions for a pittance of pay, who can barely afford food, much less a roof over their heads. Globalism has been tried and tested and it is a failure. Back to the drawing board for you.
The people left behind in this country have been failed by their own Government. Globalisation is an inevitable form of human evolution and unless you want to emulate N Korea - you just have to adapt.
It is ironic that you see globalisation as the failing but not National Government. The problems that you allude to can almost be eradicated just by a progressive tax system. The U.K. tax code is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century and until any Government is prepared to stand tall and say that we all need to pay more taxes - then the race to the bottom will continue.
This is the great tragedy of Brexit. So many people feeling left behind and disenfranchised were led to believe by outrageously wealthy people that the fault lay in Brussels. It doesn’t. The fault lies in Westminster and always has. What people voted for will make those very people worse off, not better off,
Just read what Patrick Zminford hinself has admitted. The only chance of Brexit being a success is to reduce all import taxes to zero and (his words) “this will finally precipitate the end of large scale manufacturing in this country.” The fantasy then is that country circulated its own wealth by providing services for each other. Se we lose hi tech vehicle and aerospace manufacturing jobs and getmore opportunities waiting on and selling beer.
That will not improve anyone’s life.
The EU and Brussels is part of the problem, not the solution. It's a neo-liberal protection racket, that is undemocratic, corrupt and is in the pocket of big business and multi nationals. The EU has now centralised too much power in Brussels, while becoming bigger and bigger by adding more countries that it has become unmanageable. Like all empires throughout history that became too big have failed, so the EU will too, and the writing is already on the wall that it's in decline. Decentralisation of power back to the people is the best way forward for the future, and that's the way things are heading, whether you like it or not. "What does neo-liberal mean Centaur. I think you've got a little confused?
Undemocratic due to the direct election of MEPs? The appointment to the Council of Ministers by national governments? The election of a Comission President? Which bit is "undemocratic"?
Do tell me what countries and organisations have fined multi-nationals in recent years. Is the EU on the list?
Over-expansion? Perhaps. It's external EU immigration and specific ethnic groups like Roma that seem to be upsetting people wouldn't you say? Mostly in the control of national governments.
Power back to the people or back to "strong" governments? What's the evidence so far?
Non of them seem to want to actually leave though. Any referenda being mooted?
I notice that, as usual, you are unable to explain or defend Patrick Minford's position so change the subject | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. Your not. I gave a possible solution to the irish border and you were doom and gloom I don't care about the Irish border. I'm talking about a much wider scope. In that case, your a selective optimist don't you think? No just less small minded. This isn't a Brexit thread ok..... It's a bigger picture look at the boogeymen in your heads be you left or right. If you would all shut the fuck then human progress could continue just fine...imo. You're not a fan of free speech are you. It's also funny you accuse others of having bogeymen, when you've made it perfectly clear on here you have bogeymen of your own, be they feminists, populists, Brexiteers, Trumpsters, or the yellow vests in France. The bigger picture always eludes you
No, it really doesn't. People are rebelling all over the world against globalism. You can continue to sit in your warm house, filled with gifts and food, while you type shit on your phone to post on here over high speed Internet, but just because it's worked for you it doesn't mean it's worked for everyone. Globalism still means there are people out there homeless, freezing their asses off and sleeping rough on the streets in the West, people visiting food banks so they don't starve to death. In the 3rd world globalism still means people still work in slave like conditions for a pittance of pay, who can barely afford food, much less a roof over their heads. Globalism has been tried and tested and it is a failure. Back to the drawing board for you.
The people left behind in this country have been failed by their own Government. Globalisation is an inevitable form of human evolution and unless you want to emulate N Korea - you just have to adapt.
It is ironic that you see globalisation as the failing but not National Government. The problems that you allude to can almost be eradicated just by a progressive tax system. The U.K. tax code is not fit for purpose in the 21st Century and until any Government is prepared to stand tall and say that we all need to pay more taxes - then the race to the bottom will continue.
This is the great tragedy of Brexit. So many people feeling left behind and disenfranchised were led to believe by outrageously wealthy people that the fault lay in Brussels. It doesn’t. The fault lies in Westminster and always has. What people voted for will make those very people worse off, not better off,
Just read what Patrick Zminford hinself has admitted. The only chance of Brexit being a success is to reduce all import taxes to zero and (his words) “this will finally precipitate the end of large scale manufacturing in this country.” The fantasy then is that country circulated its own wealth by providing services for each other. Se we lose hi tech vehicle and aerospace manufacturing jobs and getmore opportunities waiting on and selling beer.
That will not improve anyone’s life.
The EU and Brussels is part of the problem, not the solution. It's a neo-liberal protection racket, that is undemocratic, corrupt and is in the pocket of big business and multi nationals. The EU has now centralised too much power in Brussels, while becoming bigger and bigger by adding more countries that it has become unmanageable. Like all empires throughout history that became too big have failed, so the EU will too, and the writing is already on the wall that it's in decline. Decentralisation of power back to the people is the best way forward for the future, and that's the way things are heading, whether you like it or not. "As usual - all rhetoric and no substance. “It's a neo-liberal protection racket, that is undemocratic, corrupt and is in the pocket of big business and multi nationals.” None of the above is actually true, but like many war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciples of fascism, saying it over and over again pushes the cause of Nationslism in Europe ever closer. All good eh? I suppose what is good for the goose.... | |||
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"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. " How about you clarify ..and we can fact check.. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check.. "No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave. | |||
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"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. " Or Dennis Skinner, or John Mann, or Kate Hoey, or George Galloway, or one of the Labour party's biggest donors John Mills, or you could have asked Tony Benn or Michael Foot when they were alive what they thought about the EU. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave. "Funniest thing I’ve read in ages. Sadly the Tories have convinced so many people to believe this horse shit. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave. "And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave. "So nothing but rhetoric .Thanks for the honesty.. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
So nothing but rhetoric .Thanks for the honesty.. "Fight with fire eh Bob. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves. "Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
So nothing but rhetoric .Thanks for the honesty..
Fight with fire eh Bob.
"Are your pants on fire or something?Youll have to clarfify that sentence with something other than rhetoric. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves. "Posting the 100% opposite of the truth as per usual. The single purpose of Brexit is for big businesses to remove the red tape of workers rights and environmental protection. The EU is the reason we have high wages at the moment. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it."Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages? | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Posting the 100% opposite of the truth as per usual.
The single purpose of Brexit is for big businesses to remove the red tape of workers rights and environmental protection.
The EU is the reason we have high wages at the moment."Not really. There's a balance. Regulation maintains employment rights whilst free movement prevents skills bottlenecks but reduces large wage increases. The combination minimises wild fluctuations but doesn't solve the fundamental boom/bust cycle that credit and short-term planning pushes us towards. The outcome of Brexit will be to loosen job security and corporate taxation with little impact on wages. The biggest con is leavers believing that this is a bottom up movement and "anti-establishment", benefiting those with nothing. It is exactly the opposite. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?"By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science. "I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ? | |||
| |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave. "If it is Ok to say - That "the EU is a neo-liberal protection racket, that is undemocratic, corrupt and is in the pocket of big business and multinationals"... then I guess it's also OK to call everyone who doesn't love the EU "a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism" You can't be upset when someone else spouts a load on nonsense when it is simply in reply to a load of nonsense. I did say that "what is good for the goose..." but not surprising that it would sail completely over the head of at least one Brexiter. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?"They have. They didn't want a minimum wage though, did they? They didn't want to raise the zero tax threshold until forced by the LibDems. Now it was all their idea. It's politics right? | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?"You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you.  the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
They have. They didn't want a minimum wage though, did they?
They didn't want to raise the zero tax threshold until forced by the LibDems. Now it was all their idea.
It's politics right? "No they didnt want the minimum wage and history has shown that it wasnt the diasaster they predicited, a bit like how they predicted all the bad things after a leave vote that didnt happen, yes youre right its politics and most politicains couldnt tell their elbow from their arse. Its a bit like the argument for QE had they given the same amount to the lowest 30% of earners the economy would have boomed out of control as the lower paid tend to spend rather than save. Despite being right of centre and supposedly anti worker Im a very strong believer in increasing pay for those at the bottom and we should introduce a maximum % above the lowest paid for the higgest paid | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers. "So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration. They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from. The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash. There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
"Spoken like a true capitalist. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist. "Yes comrade. I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. " We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die." Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up?" I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy" The irony is many leavers point to this period as proof we will be okay outside of the EU. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy" The French health system is amazing but I pay 23% NI contributions - there were no queues throughout the process, always plenty of staff - all French. The NHS is an system designed in 1940's and is clearly outdated as far as the 21st century is concerned ! Not only do the government not pay enough, but neither do the population. It's not FREE, taxes pay for your NHS - it's been creaking for decades - now it's broken. A new and better system needs to be introduced. As far as modern day youth need to toughen up - and have an easy life - well surely that's progress? Perhaps, you should drive a Vauxhall Viva or similar today? If course not, we all take it for granted. The days of the "free ride" are coming to an end! | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy" Love the resentment against the younger generation for having an “easy life”. Haha. That’ll change now though. Was that why so many people voted for Brexit? To stick it to them pesky kids? Haha. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies. "If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain.  | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies.
If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain. "Ok comrade. When do the capitalist like myself get what's comming to us.. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies.
If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain.
Ok comrade.
When do the capitalist like myself get what's comming to us.. "I think you're already living your personal hell. You think you're a liberal, but you're more Tory than Centy. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy Love the resentment against the younger generation for having an “easy life”. Haha. That’ll change now though. Was that why so many people voted for Brexit? To stick it to them pesky kids? Haha. " The real snowflakes are the older generations .The kids have it tough.The futures pretty fucking bleak for many of them. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies.
If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain.
Ok comrade.
When do the capitalist like myself get what's comming to us..
I think you're already living your personal hell. You think you're a liberal, but you're more Tory than Centy."I've only ever voted green.Which many consider left of labour . I'm one of those champagne socialist you plastic lefties so despise. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies.
If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain.
Ok comrade.
When do the capitalist like myself get what's comming to us..
I think you're already living your personal hell. You think you're a liberal, but you're more Tory than Centy.
I've only ever voted green.Which many consider left of labour .
I'm one of those champagne socialist you plastic lefties so despise. "I don't think you *need* to tell us that bob! I think you may well feel guilty about being a Tory, hence you voting green. But Thatcher would be proud of you, as is Blair. | |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies.
If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain.
Ok comrade.
When do the capitalist like myself get what's comming to us..
I think you're already living your personal hell. You think you're a liberal, but you're more Tory than Centy.
I've only ever voted green.Which many consider left of labour .
I'm one of those champagne socialist you plastic lefties so despise.
I don't think you *need* to tell us that bob! I think you may well feel guilty about being a Tory, hence you voting green. But Thatcher would be proud of you, as is Blair. "Everyone here knows how I vote.Ive not been quite about the environment and climate change for the last few years in the forum . I'm a capitalist with property .Ive never read Karl Marx so maybe you could educate us why all property is theft comrade.. | |||
"I'll break this down in to something simpler for you to grasp, half the people your arguing with on here are communists that want to take all your wealth of you and if you disagree are more than willing to shoot you, the other half are the liberal centrists that got us in the mess were in today. Pick your side my friend "Super wrong on both counts | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy The French health system is amazing but I pay 23% NI contributions - there were no queues throughout the process, always plenty of staff - all French. The NHS is an system designed in 1940's and is clearly outdated as far as the 21st century is concerned ! Not only do the government not pay enough, but neither do the population. It's not FREE, taxes pay for your NHS - it's been creaking for decades - now it's broken. A new and better system needs to be introduced. As far as modern day youth need to toughen up - and have an easy life - well surely that's progress? Perhaps, you should drive a Vauxhall Viva or similar today? If course not, we all take it for granted. The days of the "free ride" are coming to an end!" The thing is the British would not pay 23%for the NHS they just want it,many seem to think money grows on trees. Yes the young have had it to easy and if that ends then in the long run it will be a good thing.Over a lifetime you generally get what you deserve | |||
| |||
"Plenty on the left believe the same. Ask Corbyn. How about you clarify ..and we can fact check..
No need is there? I guess it's easier to call everyone who doesn't love the EU a war mongering, right-wing, xenophobic disciple of fascism and hope that covers it? Rather than except the fact that distrust of the EU goes across all political spectrum. The uncomfortable truth of course is that the biggest fans of the EU are wealthy capitalists who need free movement of people etc to keep the cost of labour down. Its exactly why the Tories are trying not to let us leave.
And is also why big business and multi nationals also want to keep us in, so they can continue to pay low wages, to keep their costs down while the fat cats at the top hoard more profit for themselves.
Yep. Labour should be pro British labour, and be actively against lowering British workers wages. Just as the Tories are actively trying to lower it.
Would that be the tories who have raised it by the highest % this year since it was introduced IIRC by twice the level of inflation, so how exactly are they trying to lower wages?
By allowing the market to be flooded with labour. It ain't rocket science.
I will try again, have the tories increased or reduced the minimum/living wage ?
You can try all you like, but the only person who mentioned the minimum/living wage, was you. the Tories can't control how much your plumber charges you. But they can lower it by flooding the market with more plumbers.
So as someone who works in the building trade I can tell you plumbers aren't ten a penny and cheap as chips because of immigration.
They are as expensive as ever and i demand wherever they come from.
The only thing I've seen effect the building trade in a serious way in the last 25 years was the 2008 crash.
There's plenty of work where I live and I compete against and price against Eastern European tradesmen.
Spoken like a true capitalist.
Yes comrade.
I believe capitalism is the only game in town and if you think brexit will change that your away with the fairies.
If i believed that i wouldn't have voted remain.
Ok comrade.
When do the capitalist like myself get what's comming to us..
I think you're already living your personal hell. You think you're a liberal, but you're more Tory than Centy.
I've only ever voted green.Which many consider left of labour .
I'm one of those champagne socialist you plastic lefties so despise. "Didn't you say a while ago you joined the Labour party in support of Corbyn and his policies Bob. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy The French health system is amazing but I pay 23% NI contributions - there were no queues throughout the process, always plenty of staff - all French. The NHS is an system designed in 1940's and is clearly outdated as far as the 21st century is concerned ! Not only do the government not pay enough, but neither do the population. It's not FREE, taxes pay for your NHS - it's been creaking for decades - now it's broken. A new and better system needs to be introduced. As far as modern day youth need to toughen up - and have an easy life - well surely that's progress? Perhaps, you should drive a Vauxhall Viva or similar today? If course not, we all take it for granted. The days of the "free ride" are coming to an end!The thing is the British would not pay 23%for the NHS they just want it,many seem to think money grows on trees. Yes the young have had it to easy and if that ends then in the long run it will be a good thing.Over a lifetime you generally get what you deserve" It's the baby boomer generation, yours, which has had the greatest rise in unearned wealth and prosperity yet feel that you've had it tough. Property prices through the roof with the opportunity to purchase council housing at a discount price. The NHS from cradle to grave. Free education. Massive expansion in the road network. Massive expansion in the availability of consumer goods and variety of food. Final salary pension schemes and guaranteed rises. Free access to Europe for holidays. Massive expansion and fall in price of international travel. Perhaps you should wish that the young have it as "tough" as you do. It would be a step up for them. | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy Love the resentment against the younger generation for having an “easy life”. Haha. That’ll change now though. Was that why so many people voted for Brexit? To stick it to them pesky kids? Haha. " What resentment? I said the younger ones need to toughen up nothing about resenting them | |||
"No matter which side of the politic spectrum all you clowns seem to be obsessed with collapse and ruin. Any more moderate views? I believe that globally we probably are quite good at correcting for the mistakes of the past...it has brought humanity this far. We've never had it better. My fear is that a moderate steady rise in the standard of living worldwide will be interrupted by the stoking of extreme views with populist bullshit and increasing chaos. We deserve to have a relative utopia thanks to technology and scientific advances but we could end up in a mad max world thanks to echo chambers and populist dickheads who prey on the weak points of basic human nature. We deserve very little sadly,life is tough and full of challenges and as allways it is survival of the fittest that is an ugly truth,We need luck and good health to make it to.Rich or poor very few are really happy because the grass is allways greener.Lifes a bitch and then you die. Not deserve. On one of the wealrhiest countries on the planet we should have more than barely funcrioning public services and nobody should be homeless or surviving on on food banks. Brexit was a vote for the grass being greener. It will not be.It's becoming progressively clearer that ot will be quite the opposite. Your aspirations are sadly small. It's almost as if you are welcoming a worse life. Should the snowfllake younger generation learn how to toughen up? I have friends in several different countries and they are envious of our public srevices compared to their new countries, one who lives in France says their health service is good but it costs them, I guess if you pay you get more, simple fact. No one in the uk wants to pay for the NHS despite saying they would. Yes I believe the younger generation do need to toughen up compared to growing up in the late60/70's they have had life easy The French health system is amazing but I pay 23% NI contributions - there were no queues throughout the process, always plenty of staff - all French. The NHS is an system designed in 1940's and is clearly outdated as far as the 21st century is concerned ! Not only do the government not pay enough, but neither do the population. It's not FREE, taxes pay for your NHS - it's been creaking for decades - now it's broken. A new and better system needs to be introduced. As far as modern day youth need to toughen up - and have an easy life - well surely that's progress? Perhaps, you should drive a Vauxhall Viva or similar today? If course not, we all take it for granted. The days of the "free ride" are coming to an end!The thing is the British would not pay 23%for the NHS they just want it,many seem to think money grows on trees. Yes the young have had it to easy and if that ends then in the long run it will be a good thing.Over a lifetime you generally get what you deserve" What utter twaddle. Your grasp of economics is tenuous at best. And that last sentence - which natural law dictates that outcome? Didn't work for Jimmy Savile | |||
" It's the baby boomer generation, yours, which has had the greatest rise in unearned wealth and prosperity yet feel that you've had it tough. Property prices through the roof with the opportunity to purchase council housing at a discount price. The NHS from cradle to grave. Free education. Massive expansion in the road network. Massive expansion in the availability of consumer goods and variety of food. Final salary pension schemes and guaranteed rises. Free access to Europe for holidays. Massive expansion and fall in price of international travel. Perhaps you should wish that the young have it as "tough" as you do. It would be a step up for them." I certainly dont feel I had it "tough" that was the generations that were born from 1900 to around 1950,you know the ones who lived and died through two world wars, the young who lost their youth if not their life to war and depression. Hardly anyone born from 1950 has had it tough IMVHO. You mention consumer goods, yes I remember the first colour telly we had in the late 70's you know when folks only had one telly in the house and lucky if it was 20 inch, not one in every room and 70 inch( ours is still20 inch as dont watch much) food avaliability and cost is far less now than in the 70's,just look up the figures for how long it took the average Joe to earn a loaf of bread of pint of milk. I had one foreign holiday before I was 32, kids now often have two or three,of course its now going to cost £7 every three years to go to europe did we have a new mobile phone a couple of times a year or new/newish cars, when I was young eating out was a luxury maybe a couple of times a year other than perhaps a kfc or takeaway once a month. Yes we had free uni, for those that went most did not and those that did studied for real qualifications not a mickey mouse one that is little use to anyone, O/A levels were far harder than the equivalent ones are now. Far from everyone has a final salary pension and everyone benefits from the road network when I was young car ownership was very low compared to now, the nhs is still free but is used far too much otherwise the service could be quicker. Yes house prices have risen, in my view far too much and it is harder to get on the ladder without family support but dont forget it will be this generation that benefits from that increase when all us old duffers snuff it. However we worked longer hours years ago and most of us saved for a long time to get where we are today and have given our kids more in their childhood years than we received as did our parents to us. To be honest I dont envy the young as I think they often look at the celeb lifestyle on telly etc and feel disatisfied by their life, they also see us oldies enjoying the fruit of our labours and want that now forgetting many of us are ony now in our late 50's enjoying things they want in their 30's as for working longer before they can retire they forget that many didnt live much beyond 70 years ago whereas today many will live into their late 80's or beyond | |||
" It's the baby boomer generation, yours, which has had the greatest rise in unearned wealth and prosperity yet feel that you've had it tough. Property prices through the roof with the opportunity to purchase council housing at a discount price. The NHS from cradle to grave. Free education. Massive expansion in the road network. Massive expansion in the availability of consumer goods and variety of food. Final salary pension schemes and guaranteed rises. Free access to Europe for holidays. Massive expansion and fall in price of international travel. Perhaps you should wish that the young have it as "tough" as you do. It would be a step up for them. I certainly dont feel I had it "tough" that was the generations that were born from 1900 to around 1950,you know the ones who lived and died through two world wars, the young who lost their youth if not their life to war and depression. Hardly anyone born from 1950 has had it tough IMVHO. You mention consumer goods, yes I remember the first colour telly we had in the late 70's you know when folks only had one telly in the house and lucky if it was 20 inch, not one in every room and 70 inch( ours is still20 inch as dont watch much) food avaliability and cost is far less now than in the 70's,just look up the figures for how long it took the average Joe to earn a loaf of bread of pint of milk. I had one foreign holiday before I was 32, kids now often have two or three,of course its now going to cost £7 every three years to go to europe did we have a new mobile phone a couple of times a year or new/newish cars, when I was young eating out was a luxury maybe a couple of times a year other than perhaps a kfc or takeaway once a month. Yes we had free uni, for those that went most did not and those that did studied for real qualifications not a mickey mouse one that is little use to anyone, O/A levels were far harder than the equivalent ones are now. Far from everyone has a final salary pension and everyone benefits from the road network when I was young car ownership was very low compared to now, the nhs is still free but is used far too much otherwise the service could be quicker. Yes house prices have risen, in my view far too much and it is harder to get on the ladder without family support but dont forget it will be this generation that benefits from that increase when all us old duffers snuff it. However we worked longer hours years ago and most of us saved for a long time to get where we are today and have given our kids more in their childhood years than we received as did our parents to us. To be honest I dont envy the young as I think they often look at the celeb lifestyle on telly etc and feel disatisfied by their life, they also see us oldies enjoying the fruit of our labours and want that now forgetting many of us are ony now in our late 50's enjoying things they want in their 30's as for working longer before they can retire they forget that many didnt live much beyond 70 years ago whereas today many will live into their late 80's or beyond" So youngsters are better off because they have more TVs and go abroad on holidays ? And I’m well aware many will live into their 80s. It’s why I said the state pension is massively valuable to them compared to previous generations. Ditto DB schemes. When a miner has a plan worth a million you know there’s a vaulable benefit being lost. | |||
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"Happy new year lets be optimistic as long as you have your health you have the world,no point worrying about the future to much,sell all investments and hold on tight" this does not constitute financial advice | |||
