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Should leave men leave?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The vote was to “sign the divorce papers”
While we could hope to end up with the house and kids and pensions, it was never what we were asked for and so the risk was we’d end up cohabiting.
But not married. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?"
What is "leave" in your view ? |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?"
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. "
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. "
You are rewriting history.
The Leave campaign was filled with rhetoric that our relationship with the EU would be even better as a non-member.
There was no mention of no-deal or WTO or anything else that would have deterred anyone from voting leave.
People were promised cake with a gold-plated knife and fork. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. "
Much information was deficient on both sides however I think the very basic premise of leaving something we have been part of for over 40 years with all the involved policies and deals did mean there would need to be something to replace those..
Unless the paper itemised them all it was dare I say bleeding obvious..
Surely? |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
"
None of that was on the ballot paper though, the question on the ballot paper said leave or remain. The people chose leave, so leaving with no deal is still leaving.
If you're going to insist on leaving with a deal because that's what the leave campaign promised then the Leave campaign also promised to Leave the single market and the customs union, end free movement of people, have the ability to do our own free trade deals with other countries, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, and stop making annual payments of membership fees to the EU. So if you're insisting we leave the EU with a deal you're insisting we do all those other things as well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
None of that was on the ballot paper though, the question on the ballot paper said leave or remain. The people chose leave, so leaving with no deal is still leaving.
If you're going to insist on leaving with a deal because that's what the leave campaign promised then the Leave campaign also promised to Leave the single market and the customs union, end free movement of people, have the ability to do our own free trade deals with other countries, leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ, and stop making annual payments of membership fees to the EU. So if you're insisting we leave the EU with a deal you're insisting we do all those other things as well. "
As you say the ballot paper said two things : leave/remain we agree on that!
But as has been proved you just can't walk away - it's not like switching a light on/off!
There is a requirement to transfer from one system to another - and on country terms it's slow and complex. You will end up doing trade deals etc - but freedom of movement you will have to sacrifice! India have already stated "fom" of their citizens will be part of a deal! |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. "
There was lots of discussion about what leaving would entail and would obviously mean that an arrangement between the UK and 27 other countries, established over many decades, would entail huge complexity - heaped upon the UK. There are obligations, including financial, amongst the many aspects of the UK's relationship that's been contracted for and built up.
There was never going to just be a situation where the door closed and the sun shone, without any of the practical complexiities being closed and re-established on a different footing. The leave camp were involved in a mass fraud, leaving millions believing that it was so simple.  |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. "
How odd....I could have sworn that we were going to have our cake and eat it. Even Farage was talking of deals |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
"
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
There was lots of discussion about what leaving would entail and would obviously mean that an arrangement between the UK and 27 other countries, established over many decades, would entail huge complexity - heaped upon the UK. There are obligations, including financial, amongst the many aspects of the UK's relationship that's been contracted for and built up.
There was never going to just be a situation where the door closed and the sun shone, without any of the practical complexiities being closed and re-established on a different footing. The leave camp were involved in a mass fraud, leaving millions believing that it was so simple. "
So you agree with me. Ok. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong. "
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares! |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"So as long as we are classed as left the EU on paper then that's BREXIT  
Is that your opinion?"
How can it be an opinion?
If we have left the EU, then we have left.
As Mr Farage once said... "What is so bad about being like Norway? They are not in the EU and they manage perfectly well." |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong.
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares!"
Do you belive that that was on the minds of those who voted leave? Or do you think that the threat of the cost of brexit forced many to vote remain? |
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"So as long as we are classed as left the EU on paper then that's BREXIT
Is that your opinion?
How can it be an opinion?
If we have left the EU, then we have left.
As Mr Farage once said... "What is so bad about being like Norway? They are not in the EU and they manage perfectly well.""
How can it be "classed as" leaving the EU? Either we will have or we won't have. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong.
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares!
Do you belive that that was on the minds of those who voted leave? Or do you think that the threat of the cost of brexit forced many to vote remain?"
It's pretty obvious remainers only care about money. They only made economic arguments during the referendum campaign in 2016, and they still only make economic arguments now. They only care about money and don't give a shit about anything else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If we do take divorce as an analogy for Brexit then it is perfectly acceptable to have an amicable divorce and get along OK after. For the years while we needed to mind the kids together we were civil and helpful to each other.
It's how my own divorce ended and now 18 years on we never speak to each other. My kids and I get on great and we enjoy doing stuff together.
QED it is possible to have an amicable divorce. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong.
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares!
Do you belive that that was on the minds of those who voted leave? Or do you think that the threat of the cost of brexit forced many to vote remain?
It's pretty obvious remainers only care about money. They only made economic arguments during the referendum campaign in 2016, and they still only make economic arguments now. They only care about money and don't give a shit about anything else. "
Money was my motivation, I'll hold my hand up to that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If we do take divorce as an analogy for Brexit then it is perfectly acceptable to have an amicable divorce and get along OK after. For the years while we needed to mind the kids together we were civil and helpful to each other.
It's how my own divorce ended and now 18 years on we never speak to each other. My kids and I get on great and we enjoy doing stuff together.
QED it is possible to have an amicable divorce."
Yep got the T shirt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If we do take divorce as an analogy for Brexit then it is perfectly acceptable to have an amicable divorce and get along OK after. For the years while we needed to mind the kids together we were civil and helpful to each other.
It's how my own divorce ended and now 18 years on we never speak to each
other. My kids and I get on great and we enjoy doing stuff together.
QED it is possible to have an amicable divorce."
Conversely Mrs N had an awful divorce. Her Ex was Vile, used the kids as pawns in his never ending battle to prove he was wronged.
Result one of his kids was pretty fucked up with drink and drugs and the ex ended up topping himself.
Again QED |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If we do take divorce as an analogy for Brexit then it is perfectly acceptable to have an amicable divorce and get along OK after. For the years while we needed to mind the kids together we were civil and helpful to each other.
It's how my own divorce ended and now 18 years on we never speak to each
other. My kids and I get on great and we enjoy doing stuff together.
QED it is possible to have an amicable divorce.
Conversely Mrs N had an awful divorce. Her Ex was Vile, used the kids as pawns in his never ending battle to prove he was wronged.
Result one of his kids was pretty fucked up with drink and drugs and the ex ended up topping himself.
Again QED"
So when it comes to divorce it pays not to be a complete doormat but find a bit of a compromise and settle your outstanding divorce bill which is your liabilities to your children. The analogy to Brexit is infact perfection. |
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"If we do take divorce as an analogy for Brexit then it is perfectly acceptable to have an amicable divorce and get along OK after. For the years while we needed to mind the kids together we were civil and helpful to each other.
It's how my own divorce ended and now 18 years on we never speak to each
other. My kids and I get on great and we enjoy doing stuff together.
QED it is possible to have an amicable divorce.
Conversely Mrs N had an awful divorce. Her Ex was Vile, used the kids as pawns in his never ending battle to prove he was wronged.
Result one of his kids was pretty fucked up with drink and drugs and the ex ended up topping himself.
Again QED"
How had she wronged him? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong.
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares!
Do you belive that that was on the minds of those who voted leave? Or do you think that the threat of the cost of brexit forced many to vote remain?
It's pretty obvious remainers only care about money. They only made economic arguments during the referendum campaign in 2016, and they still only make economic arguments now. They only care about money and don't give a shit about anything else. "
Awful, isn’t it?
The truth is that blue passports and unicorns are priceless. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"So as long as we are classed as left the EU on paper then that's BREXIT
Is that your opinion?
How can it be an opinion?
If we have left the EU, then we have left.
As Mr Farage once said... "What is so bad about being like Norway? They are not in the EU and they manage perfectly well."
How can it be "classed as" leaving the EU? Either we will have or we won't have. "
I don't think that you really understand just how interconnected the world is and how different countries use compromises in relationships around trade and regulations to better advantage themselves in the world. Everybody does it apart from the likes of North Korea and they do it because it is sensible.
For example, if it were possible to leave the EU, but remain part of EASA, no-one in their right mind would complain that it was a wrong thing to do. But in your world, we would not have really left the EU and so should not be part of EASA. That is nuts. By definition then, moving forwards we would not have relationships and agreements with anybody because of the inherent loss of sovereignty that goes along with almost any agreement on the international stage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It's pretty obvious remainers only care about money. They only made economic arguments during the referendum campaign in 2016, and they still only make economic arguments now. They only care about money and don't give a shit about anything else. "
Money plays a massive role in this yes...
We need money for...
NHS, Education, Welfare, Defence, Infrastructure, Foreign Policy, International Aid, Business, Energy, Environment, workers rights, etc etc etc
So we actually do give a shit about NHS, Education, Welfare, Defence, Infrastructure, Foreign Policy, International Aid, Business, Energy, Environment, workers rights etc etc etc
With less money we have less of everything above so it just proves that people like you only give a shit about your so called lack of sovereignty yet you don't give a shit about the daily needs of the rest of society.
At least you're being a bit more honest about your intentions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?"
well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
|
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome "
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?"
because nobody else including your best political minds saw what was coming |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for? because nobody else including your best political minds saw what was coming "
Who do you think MY best political minds are/were? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for? because nobody else including your best political minds saw what was coming
Who do you think MY best political minds are/were?"
I couldn't give a fuck |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for? because nobody else including your best political minds saw what was coming
Who do you think MY best political minds are/were? I couldn't give a fuck "
Top debating skills mate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for? because nobody else including your best political minds saw what was coming
Who do you think MY best political minds are/were? I couldn't give a fuck
Top debating skills mate. "
very grown up you block me |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for? because nobody else including your best political minds saw what was coming
Who do you think MY best political minds are/were? I couldn't give a fuck
Top debating skills mate. very grown up you block me "
I can't think why....  |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?"
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt"
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?"
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ? |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?"
Not so far. It sounds like she's signing us up to a deal where we're still in. But without any say in our destiny . With no end date. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?"
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw."
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Leave means however the UK government decides what leave means in relation to the real world.
What do you think it'll mean when labour get in?"
Exactly the same, whatever the Labour government decide BREXIT is. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be. "
You’d better go and tell Steve Baker, Rees Mogg and the rest of the shysters that they are now irrelevant the . They don’t seem to think so bearing in mind the airtime they are clamouring for. It appears that a spurned 30% of Tories need to be heard much more than the 48% of Remain voters. Odd that.
Odd too that after voting her in just two and a half years ago, they changed their mind once facts about what she had been doing cane to light and they wanted to get rid of her. That’s odd too because as facts about Brexit become more apparent, we can’t ask the question again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be. "
Fraid politics is not a game of football, it's more like chess or Poker. If I was you I'd be badgering your MP to accept the deal on offer. I badgered mine and he told me to naff off.
Fair enough. I will  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be. "
It's ok though as the BREXIT deal gives you what you voted for, leaving the EU. |
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By *osweet69Couple
over a year ago
portsmouth |
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
"
The ballot paper said the following :Remain a member of the European. Leave the European Union. There was no caveat about deals etc. The mandate to the government after the vote was straight forward take us out of the EU please For Parliament to now stop that is unconstitutional.But yet again the vocally few are imposing there will on the many. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be. "
No..
It's not a game so your analogy is pointless, it is about respecting the vote but it also has to be about finding a solution that carries the majority of the country so that we don't for generations keep having the same old argument..
There needs to compromise if its to be put to bed for good, it's toxic for our politics and stupid to keep wasting time and money which could be spent on sorting out the issues some on our society have.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well Brexit won the first half. Remain have just equalised and we're into extra time, it's 1-1. ochhhhhhhh noooooooooooo the scorts and irish have stormed onto the pitch and have removed the goal porsttttt again.......... |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
When a country is so split, and so narrowly, finding consensus on the way forward is the hallmark of a leader.
Norway voted against EU membership in a referendum. The compromise was membership of EFTA.
A leader here who cleaved to the right and acted only in the interests of the 52 per cent would not be a leader, more a campaigner.
To be fair to Mrs May, she is trying to implement the result in the most moderate way she can find.
That pleases no-one. But it does allow everyone to get a little of what they voted for. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"When a country is so split, and so narrowly, finding consensus on the way forward is the hallmark of a leader.
Norway voted against EU membership in a referendum. The compromise was membership of EFTA.
A leader here who cleaved to the right and acted only in the interests of the 52 per cent would not be a leader, more a campaigner.
To be fair to Mrs May, she is trying to implement the result in the most moderate way she can find.
That pleases no-one. But it does allow everyone to get a little of what they voted for."
Definition of "compromise": "no-one is happy"
-Matt |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be.
No..
It's not a game so your analogy is pointless, it is about respecting the vote but it also has to be about finding a solution that carries the majority of the country so that we don't for generations keep having the same old argument..
There needs to compromise if its to be put to bed for good, it's toxic for our politics and stupid to keep wasting time and money which could be spent on sorting out the issues some on our society have.. "
Funny then when someone compared Theresa May's win last night to a game of football on another thread, you didn't object to it. Maybe because they were agreeing with you but hey, carry on being inconsistent if you like. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks....... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks......."
You missed out "cake and eat it leave" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be. "
And Mays deal isn’t half in half out is it? It completely delivers what was on the ballot paper. So you’ve taken all don’t fret that they think they have also taken something. You should be promoting to your side the fact they’ve won when some (it seems as I’m guessing they are a leaver) think they’ve lost. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?well you didn't know what you were voting for bet you would like a second vote be a different outcome
Why do you think i didn't know what i was voting for?
It doesn’t really matter. The point is that ‘leave’ was so vague such that it could be sold to each person as to what they wanted it to be. You want leave to mean no deal? Cool, that is what leave is. You want leave to be remaining in EFTA and/or customs union? Cool, that is what leave is. You want rid of those nasty foreigners? Leave is that. You want rid of those evil Eurocrats? Leave is that.
Leave was a blank cheque that could be whatever you wanted it to be. The leave campaign even ran targeted social media ads to reinforce it was whatever you wanted it to be.
Now we have reality. Now comes to the point where what leave means to one person is discovered to be fundamentally incompatible with what leave means to someone else. And they can’t all be satisfied. This is why leavers don’t want any other referendum or vote or scrutiny on what leave might actually mean as that would undermine the charade.
-Matt
Indeed. Leaving us living with our estranged partner, and for how long....?
OP, do you think Mays deal has delivered on the referendum?
If not, can you explain why not ?
I'll answer that. Yes it has delivered a half in half out deal which totally reflects the 52 to 48 % referendum result. The views of the 48% simply cannot be ignored and neither should we as remainers trample all over those that wanted to leave. It's a time for humility and understanding and putting hand out and saying OK it's a draw.
It wasn't a draw though leave won on 52%.
When 2 teams play the world cup final the losing team doesn't get to take the cup home or the cup doesn't get broken in half where each side takes home half each. The game also doesn't get replayed because the losing side don't like the result.
Winner takes all and that's the way it should be.
No..
It's not a game so your analogy is pointless, it is about respecting the vote but it also has to be about finding a solution that carries the majority of the country so that we don't for generations keep having the same old argument..
There needs to compromise if its to be put to bed for good, it's toxic for our politics and stupid to keep wasting time and money which could be spent on sorting out the issues some on our society have..
Funny then when someone compared Theresa May's win last night to a game of football on another thread, you didn't object to it. Maybe because they were agreeing with you but hey, carry on being inconsistent if you like. "
So because I did not comment on a post I am inconsistent..?
Wtf are you on about..
I commented on yours above inthis here thread and your response is to call me out as inconsistent on a thread I did not comment on..
Feckin ell..
You need to have a lay down if that's the best you can do.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
And Mays deal isn’t half in half out is it? It completely delivers what was on the ballot paper. So you’ve taken all don’t fret that they think they have also taken something. You should be promoting to your side the fact they’ve won when some (it seems as I’m guessing they are a leaver) think they’ve lost. "
True
One thing's for sure, we'll know all well and good once we have left, the EU will officially be called and referred to as the EU 27 |
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"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks......."
What type of remain did remainers vote for? Was it to remain in the EU as it stands now without ever changing in future? Or was it a remain which meant the EU becoming more federalist with ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen, etc? Or was it a remain where the EU gets reformed to become less federalist, and ever closer union reversed where member states develop a looser relationship with each other in future? Different Remainers point to these different scenarios and have different opinions on how the EU would develop in future, so which remain did you vote for because it's not very clear is it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks.......
What type of remain did remainers vote for? Was it to remain in the EU as it stands now without ever changing in future? Or was it a remain which meant the EU becoming more federalist with ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen, etc? Or was it a remain where the EU gets reformed to become less federalist, and ever closer union reversed where member states develop a looser relationship with each other in future? Different Remainers point to these different scenarios and have different opinions on how the EU would develop in future, so which remain did you vote for because it's not very clear is it. "
A remain option is the evolution of membership over time which nobody can say how that will pan out but while being a member any major change would require agreement by all it's members so the UK would of been in a position to halt any change it felt would be detrimental to the UK.
BREXIT on the other hand is something that is to happen on a much shorter notice which has no cohesive agreement on in Parliament.
It's a big difference. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks.......
What type of remain did remainers vote for? Was it to remain in the EU as it stands now without ever changing in future? Or was it a remain which meant the EU becoming more federalist with ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen, etc? Or was it a remain where the EU gets reformed to become less federalist, and ever closer union reversed where member states develop a looser relationship with each other in future? Different Remainers point to these different scenarios and have different opinions on how the EU would develop in future, so which remain did you vote for because it's not very clear is it. "
This just shows the referendum was poorly worded and argued. And so any result should be taken with a pinch of salt and not absolute evidence of will of the people.
As many have argued.
Maybe it should have been advisory.  |
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"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks.......
What type of remain did remainers vote for? Was it to remain in the EU as it stands now without ever changing in future? Or was it a remain which meant the EU becoming more federalist with ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen, etc? Or was it a remain where the EU gets reformed to become less federalist, and ever closer union reversed where member states develop a looser relationship with each other in future? Different Remainers point to these different scenarios and have different opinions on how the EU would develop in future, so which remain did you vote for because it's not very clear is it.
A remain option is the evolution of membership over time which nobody can say how that will pan out but while being a member any major change would require agreement by all it's members so the UK would of been in a position to halt any change it felt would be detrimental to the UK.
BREXIT on the other hand is something that is to happen on a much shorter notice which has no cohesive agreement on in Parliament.
It's a big difference."
Pretty much this, being part in means whatever changes come we will not be able to have our say or a veto..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I honestly think a European joint force would be a good thing for this Country.
We've been far too reliant on the US for too long & you only have to look back at the mess we've been dragged into due to being the lap dog of the USA.
A group of Countries pooling military resources to create a whole can only help to lessen the burden of trying to maintain fully flexible fighting capabilities. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I honestly think a European joint force would be a good thing for this Country.
We've been far too reliant on the US for too long & you only have to look back at the mess we've been dragged into due to being the lap dog of the USA.
A group of Countries pooling military resources to create a whole can only help to lessen the burden of trying to maintain fully flexible fighting capabilities."
I absolutely agree.A joint defence program for the EU is prudent and necessary .It will happen .The sooner the better.
It more efficient to have one standing army over multiple countries replicating armed forces. |
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"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing.. "
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might. |
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"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might. "
In your dreams..
Leathers not a good look but enjoy the thought.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might. "
What really does my head in is the third reich bullshit - since when has brussels murdered millions of jews, roma, gays ans stolen everything they own to forward its ambitions? Its bad taste and a massive failure to cpmpare the two and you ought to be ashamed of saying that |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might. "
Yep, another one who still hasn't got over the Second World War
Won the war but lost the peace, eh? |
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"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might.
What really does my head in is the third reich bullshit - since when has brussels murdered millions of jews, roma, gays ans stolen everything they own to forward its ambitions? Its bad taste and a massive failure to cpmpare the two and you ought to be ashamed of saying that"
You're correct, it would be nearly impossible to do any of that without an army. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"...... Brussels recreating the third Reich it might. "
Odd. In another thread it was you who was protesting about Muslims and other immigrants? I have not seen the EU displaying rampant Islamaphobia or looking to restrict and control the movement of people as you are suggesting.
The Third Reich is happening right now in this country with a Government in contempt of Parliament, a Government riding roughshod over Democracy and vast swathes of people now feeling enabled to pour out their xenophobic and racist ideals that have been bottled up for years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might. "
Please, let us in on you insight, how is a combined EU Military force anywhere comparable to the Third Reich ?
Very interested to hear |
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"...... Brussels recreating the third Reich it might.
Odd. In another thread it was you who was protesting about Muslims and other immigrants? I have not seen the EU displaying rampant Islamaphobia or looking to restrict and control the movement of people as you are suggesting.
The Third Reich is happening right now in this country with a Government in contempt of Parliament, a Government riding roughshod over Democracy and vast swathes of people now feeling enabled to pour out their xenophobic and racist ideals that have been bottled up for years."
Are you d*unk again? You're seeing hallucinations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might.
What really does my head in is the third reich bullshit - since when has brussels murdered millions of jews, roma, gays ans stolen everything they own to forward its ambitions? Its bad taste and a massive failure to cpmpare the two and you ought to be ashamed of saying that
You're correct, it would be nearly impossible to do any of that without an army. "
So, if the EU proceed as you suggest in creating their own euroforce to lets say protect europe from....I know, how about the russian navy, who will soon be based in syrian ports with their new short range nukes? Is that a scenario thats any more likely than the rise of a fourth reich, and should that happen do you think POTUS will rush to our aid? |
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"Indeed, however I'm not sure how pleased Russia would be about it.
If it meant the USA had less influence on the continent of Europe it may not be a bad thing..
If it led to Russia recreating the Soviet union in responce to Brussels recreating the third Reich it might.
What really does my head in is the third reich bullshit - since when has brussels murdered millions of jews, roma, gays ans stolen everything they own to forward its ambitions? Its bad taste and a massive failure to cpmpare the two and you ought to be ashamed of saying that
You're correct, it would be nearly impossible to do any of that without an army.
So, if the EU proceed as you suggest in creating their own euroforce to lets say protect europe from....I know, how about the russian navy, who will soon be based in syrian ports with their new short range nukes? Is that a scenario thats any more likely than the rise of a fourth reich, and should that happen do you think POTUS will rush to our aid?"
So you think having NATO on his doorstep AND a European army won't antagonize him.... right.... |
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"Marriage means marriage.
Sex means sex.
Meaningless means meaningless.
None the wiser means none the wiser."
Hear hear ! No analogy (must admit some were very funny!) can adequately do just to the complexion of the withdrawal from the EU and the future impact to UK and ROW. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger..."
So no coherent arguments from you then |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong.
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares!
Do you belive that that was on the minds of those who voted leave? Or do you think that the threat of the cost of brexit forced many to vote remain?
It's pretty obvious remainers only care about money. They only made economic arguments during the referendum campaign in 2016, and they still only make economic arguments now. They only care about money and don't give a shit about anything else.
Money was my motivation, I'll hold my hand up to that. "
As a couple with a Brit and European member, money certainly wasn’t our motivation to stay. I was in the privileged position to be able to afford British citizenship AND qualify for the permanent residency certificate. I have many friends who aren’t either due to self employment or being a stay at home parent. It’s caused me much grief & stress on a personal level.
From what I can gather for many remainers it’s also about peace. The idea of a united Europe came after WW2 and as a peace project, it’s been pretty damn effective.
Of course, I am not saying that it is perfect, but we benefit more that many realise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong.
Anyone who's been through a divorce probably knows that there is always a cost! Someone nearly always gets the better deal very few divorces and up with equitable shares!
Do you belive that that was on the minds of those who voted leave? Or do you think that the threat of the cost of brexit forced many to vote remain?
It's pretty obvious remainers only care about money. They only made economic arguments during the referendum campaign in 2016, and they still only make economic arguments now. They only care about money and don't give a shit about anything else.
Money was my motivation, I'll hold my hand up to that.
As a couple with a Brit and European member, money certainly wasn’t our motivation to stay. I was in the privileged position to be able to afford British citizenship AND qualify for the permanent residency certificate. I have many friends who aren’t either due to self employment or being a stay at home parent. It’s caused me much grief & stress on a personal level.
From what I can gather for many remainers it’s also about peace. The idea of a united Europe came after WW2 and as a peace project, it’s been pretty damn effective.
Of course, I am not saying that it is perfect, but we benefit more that many realise."
Have empathy with you - 1.2m Brits abroad in the same position - some have already sold and moved back and more to follow. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?"
What did you expect the outcome of voting leave to be?
Trade in goods and services on what terms?
Travel and residency and working on what terms?
What made you think this could be achieved? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks.......
What type of remain did remainers vote for? Was it to remain in the EU as it stands now without ever changing in future? Or was it a remain which meant the EU becoming more federalist with ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen, etc? Or was it a remain where the EU gets reformed to become less federalist, and ever closer union reversed where member states develop a looser relationship with each other in future? Different Remainers point to these different scenarios and have different opinions on how the EU would develop in future, so which remain did you vote for because it's not very clear is it. "
Your hilarious. There was no ambiguity in what remaining meant.
Everybody who voted remain voted for the imperfect situation that exists. We could hope that it moved in a direction that we preferred by voting for MEPs and governments that reflected our views in the same way that we hope our country or local area is changed.
Leave meant anything that anybody wanted to read into it. It was such a deliberate tactic that there were two Leave campaigns. An official and an "unofficial" one that was allowed to have adverts of muslim refugees fleeing from war from non-EU countries.
Good diversion though |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then "
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away... |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away..."
Yes. You hate Germans because of something some dead Germans did a generation ago |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger..."
So that makes you in your 70's then? Just as well you weren't inside when they did, otherwise we wouldn't have had your entertaining posts |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away..."
So staying in the EU will give our Nuke button to Germany...
That's got to best the biggest pile of Project Fear shite I've ever read |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So that makes you in your 70's then? Just as well you weren't inside when they did, otherwise we wouldn't have had your entertaining posts "
It’s an old joke, obviously to difficult for the average dinlow. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away...
So staying in the EU will give our Nuke button to Germany...
That's got to best the biggest pile of Project Fear shite I've ever read "
They have been banned from having nuclear weapons since the end of WW2. That was for a good reason. Twice they have come close to taking on the world and winning. Lessons were learned, some would like to forget them, and make the same mistakes again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away...
So staying in the EU will give our Nuke button to Germany...
That's got to best the biggest pile of Project Fear shite I've ever read
They have been banned from having nuclear weapons since the end of WW2. That was for a good reason. Twice they have come close to taking on the world and winning. Lessons were learned, some would like to forget them, and make the same mistakes again."
i wonder if our empire thinks we should be similarly controlled... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away...
So staying in the EU will give our Nuke button to Germany...
That's got to best the biggest pile of Project Fear shite I've ever read
They have been banned from having nuclear weapons since the end of WW2. That was for a good reason. Twice they have come close to taking on the world and winning. Lessons were learned, some would like to forget them, and make the same mistakes again."
They do have about 60 American held Nuclear bombs in Germany available to deploy through NATO already. If they were so intent on WW3 they'd be holding us all to ransom with them.
How many years has to go by before people move on.
It's a good job Countries we've decimated over our history are a little more forward thinking. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away...
So staying in the EU will give our Nuke button to Germany...
That's got to best the biggest pile of Project Fear shite I've ever read
They have been banned from having nuclear weapons since the end of WW2. That was for a good reason. Twice they have come close to taking on the world and winning. Lessons were learned, some would like to forget them, and make the same mistakes again.i wonder if our empire thinks we should be similarly controlled... "
Former empire if you don't mind
Naturally all of us who hail from warmer climes are eternally grateful for being invaded and asset stripped.
We are delighted that the UK has this opportunity to enrich itself and to offer our support in defending it against people who look the same to us
All about you?  |
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"So Germany gets some control of nuclear missiles for the first time ever. It won’t be ours because we won’t be involved, but nobody really knows how many the French have.
I don’t trust the Germans (bastards bombed our chip shop), and the surrender monkeys will be falling over themselves to let them get their fingers on the button.
Oh yeah, and the libtards thought he US were a danger...
So no coherent arguments from you then
I’m sure my argument is easy enough to comprehend. I put it out there for those fortunate to have a mind of their own to laugh at. I don’t actually care if the odd pc libtard drone finds it difficult to understand. So scoff away...
So staying in the EU will give our Nuke button to Germany...
That's got to best the biggest pile of Project Fear shite I've ever read
They have been banned from having nuclear weapons since the end of WW2. That was for a good reason. Twice they have come close to taking on the world and winning. Lessons were learned, some would like to forget them, and make the same mistakes again."
Your not that well travelled are you?
Germany and its citizens are not what you've seen in a film..
Spent 6 years out there and they are pretty anti such things.. |
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"What does "leave mean leave" mean?
Does the outcome have to just answer the question on the ballot paper or does it have to deliver something else?"
Surely it's like other things such as one partner saying 'I want a divorce' and the other partner says OK..
Easy peasy.. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
SACKED Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho is the new Brexit secretary, it has been confirmed.
Mourinho will move straight from the United job to the government position and is already assigning blame for the total failure of Brexit to civil servants, the EU and anyone who preceded him in the post.
He said: “Any Brexit secretary can only be as good as the team he has to work with, and my team is shit. They do not have any of the qualities I need. I hate them.
“If you wish to examine my track record I have delivered independence to North Macedonia, full statehood to the Republic of Yemen, and La Liga to Real Madrid. Everything that happened there since, not my fault.
“I have proven my commitment to this job by booking into a London hotel, so the Brexit fans need to get behind me. If they don’t we will not win. That will be on them.
“The EU does not give me the deal I need. I asked for the deal and they did not give me the deal, so it’s impossible I can succeed. All the other countries have the deal so they are ahead. You said that, not me.
“Ultimately, the failure of Brexit cannot be placed on my shoulders. There is a clear guilty party: the Instagram of Paul Pogba.
“Thank you. I’ll take my payoff now.” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals. "
Vote Leave promised a deal, in fact they promised a deal would be negotiated before we invoked article 50. That pledge is still on their website.
If you voted leave, you voted for a deal. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Vote Leave promised a deal, in fact they promised a deal would be negotiated before we invoked article 50. That pledge is still on their website.
If you voted leave, you voted for a deal. "
This..
The sheer naivety of I voted leave but I thought it never meant making any new deals to replace 40 years of trade deals, cooperation and policies we are signed up to..
It won't be the Easter feckin bunny waving a magic carrot.. |
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"What does "leave mean leave" mean?
Does the outcome have to just answer the question on the ballot paper or does it have to deliver something else?"
Whatever position leavers put forward hypocritical Remainers disagree.
When leavers say the leave campaign promised we would leave the single market and the customs union, Remainers say that wasn't on the ballot paper, the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave.
When leavers say we don't need a deal to leave because the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave, then Remainers say, but the leave campaign promised a deal? Remainers seem to be holding one set of promises to account while dismissing others out of hand. You're just determined to disagree with whatever any leaver says aren't you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What does "leave mean leave" mean?
Does the outcome have to just answer the question on the ballot paper or does it have to deliver something else?
Whatever position leavers put forward hypocritical Remainers disagree.
When leavers say the leave campaign promised we would leave the single market and the customs union, Remainers say that wasn't on the ballot paper, the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave.
When leavers say we don't need a deal to leave because the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave, then Remainers say, but the leave campaign promised a deal? Remainers seem to be holding one set of promises to account while dismissing others out of hand. You're just determined to disagree with whatever any leaver says aren't you. "
No, just simply pointing out that people voted leave believing different outcomes! Your hero Farage also changed his tune on the single market and customs union after the vote! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What does "leave mean leave" mean?
Does the outcome have to just answer the question on the ballot paper or does it have to deliver something else?
Whatever position leavers put forward hypocritical Remainers disagree.
When leavers say the leave campaign promised we would leave the single market and the customs union, Remainers say that wasn't on the ballot paper, the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave.
When leavers say we don't need a deal to leave because the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave, then Remainers say, but the leave campaign promised a deal? Remainers seem to be holding one set of promises to account while dismissing others out of hand. You're just determined to disagree with whatever any leaver says aren't you.
No, just simply pointing out that people voted leave believing different outcomes! Your hero Farage also changed his tune on the single market and customs union after the vote!"
https://youtu.be/0xGt3QmRSZY
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"What does "leave mean leave" mean?
Does the outcome have to just answer the question on the ballot paper or does it have to deliver something else?
Whatever position leavers put forward hypocritical Remainers disagree.
When leavers say the leave campaign promised we would leave the single market and the customs union, Remainers say that wasn't on the ballot paper, the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave.
When leavers say we don't need a deal to leave because the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave, then Remainers say, but the leave campaign promised a deal? Remainers seem to be holding one set of promises to account while dismissing others out of hand. You're just determined to disagree with whatever any leaver says aren't you. "
Bit of a stretch to imagine that anyone especially the leave campaign has the faintest idea apart from the misplaced xenophobic rhetoric that some trotted out of any sort of deal, having that in mind would mean some sort of plan was also in mind which is nonsense to now say..
the leave campaign was several groups as you often trot out when it's pointed out they broke the law during the referendum..
It was so all over the shop on what it thought it wanted and what it thought would happen if it won that even now with the reality slowly starting to sink in for some that it's a lot more than just simplistic phrases and slogans that the liars who sold them the pup trotted out..
Simply saying the phrase 'managed no deal' as a new soundbite doesn't hide the fact that some in the leave camp have had to accept they need to change their language to reflect what they think such a thing is, the joke is that they can't accept that such a phrase is meaningless and simply means deal..
And that fact rubs badly..
The common denominator should be that we all however we voted want the best for our kids and theirs..
That also seems to not be the thinking of people like yourself who mock people who explain just what may happen to them..
Common decency in some has been lost in a blind rush to be able to spout their hatred, if they ever had it in the first place..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What does "leave mean leave" mean?
Does the outcome have to just answer the question on the ballot paper or does it have to deliver something else?
Whatever position leavers put forward hypocritical Remainers disagree.
When leavers say the leave campaign promised we would leave the single market and the customs union, Remainers say that wasn't on the ballot paper, the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave.
When leavers say we don't need a deal to leave because the only question on the ballot paper was remain or leave, then Remainers say, but the leave campaign promised a deal? Remainers seem to be holding one set of promises to account while dismissing others out of hand. You're just determined to disagree with whatever any leaver says aren't you. "
Isn’t this the same both ways ? Leavers have been berating May for not delivering on brexit promises and now are saying it delivers.
While it is a leading question, it’s jever been clear what leaves means to leavers. Some will take any version. However when we have hard brexit, soft brexit, BINO, managed no deal and no deal all bandied about, each seemingly having leavers opposing it, saying it’s nit the brexit they voted for, it gets confusing. |
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
Fascinating I'm sure. I don't really know why you're telling me all that. I told you what i think people who voted leave thought leave ment, based on my own opinion of what leave ment. You can think people who voted leave knew that they were voting for a long and costly divorce negotiation if you like, but my opinion is that you're wrong. "
I don't think all people who voted Leave voted for a long and costly divorce negotiation. I think most people who voted Leave voted leave because they wanted to leave the EU. I also think a lot of people who voted Leave voted Leave because they thought we would get a better deal outside the EU than we currently have inside. If you're telling me that you actually voted Leave because you believed we would get a worse deal outside the EU than we currently have inside then that's fine, who am I to say why you voted the way you did. I can no more speak for you than you can for any of the other 17.4 million.
However, what ever you thought you were voting for, what you actually voted for was leaving the EU and the only leaving you're going to get is May's Leave, or something very like it. That's what happens when you back stupid statements like "Leave means leave" and don't actually query what the people saying it really mean. May's deal is leaving the EU; that is what you voted for whether you thought you were voting for something else or not.
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"So as long as we are classed as left the EU on paper then that's BREXIT
Is that your opinion?
How can it be an opinion?
If we have left the EU, then we have left.
As Mr Farage once said... "What is so bad about being like Norway? They are not in the EU and they manage perfectly well."
How can it be "classed as" leaving the EU? Either we will have or we won't have. "
May's deal, Canada, Canada+, EÉA, EEA+, EFTA, EFTA+, EEA/EFTA, EEA/EFTA+, staying in a/the customs union, staying in a/the single market, Turkey, Turkey+, staying in the a/the customs union and a/the single market and many other options are all forms of leaving the EU and, as such, any one answers the question on the ballot paper.
When Remainers say all Leavers didn't know what they were voting for we don't mean they all didn't know what they wanted, we mean all of them didn't know what they were going to get. As it turns out you all actually voted for May's Leave deal.
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"Or should leave mean living in a sexless marriage with Europe which we can never leave, never meet other people, and have no say in what's for dinner, or what colour we'll decorate the bathroom?
What is "leave" in your view ?
In my opinion people voted to leave. There was no mention of making deals.
Except that the Leave campaign said "the day after we vote Leave we will be able to negotiate a better deal than we currently have with the EU because we'll hold all the cards". The Leave Campaign never said we would crash out of the EU with no deal.
Leave means leave; no ifs, no buts. May's deal is leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts. It's what you voted for even if you thought you were voting for something else. You voted for Leave, you've been offered leave. You can either back the leave you voted for and have been offered or reject it, in which case we'll simply remain in the EU instead.
The ballot paper said the following :Remain a member of the European. Leave the European Union. There was no caveat about deals etc. The mandate to the government after the vote was straight forward take us out of the EU please For Parliament to now stop that is unconstitutional.But yet again the vocally few are imposing there will on the many. "
It's not unconstitutional at all. Parliament is constitutionally sovereign. You may not like it if they choose one course of action, I may not like it if they choose another, but that's their job, to make decisions in what they believe to be the best interests of the country. When Parliament passed the referendum act it specifically stated that it was not binding but only advisory.
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"so for us remainer nitwits, when you all say "leave mean leave" was that the swiss based leave, or the norwegian based leave, or the canada plus leave, or the WTO plus leave, or the chequers leave.... or the "over the cliff" leave.....
just wondering because all those different options have been put forward over the last 6 months......
thanks.......
What type of remain did remainers vote for? Was it to remain in the EU as it stands now without ever changing in future? Or was it a remain which meant the EU becoming more federalist with ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen, etc? Or was it a remain where the EU gets reformed to become less federalist, and ever closer union reversed where member states develop a looser relationship with each other in future? Different Remainers point to these different scenarios and have different opinions on how the EU would develop in future, so which remain did you vote for because it's not very clear is it.
This just shows the referendum was poorly worded and argued. And so any result should be taken with a pinch of salt and not absolute evidence of will of the people.
As many have argued.
Maybe it should have been advisory. "
Legally it was. However completely ignoring a vote of 17.4 million people isn't politically feasible, just as totally ignoring the vote of 16.1 million is providing to be pretty unfeasible too.
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