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4m working people classified as POOR
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"Can you remember the furore about the bankers and their excessive bonuses? Public enemies number 1. So a guy gets a £75m bonus (Construction) is that excessive? They capped bankers bonuses - should we be looking at capping ALL BONUSES? " Will the country be bailing out his company if it goes bankrupt because of his bonuses? | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough?" . I think it's a bit of all that and not just one or the other. | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough?" It is this kind of thing that causes my brain to explode when I listen to the arguments for/against Brexit. What the absolute fuck is really important? Our membership to the worlds largest and most successful political and economic union or tackling poverty and austerity and dealing with the funding issues for NHS, schools and Police? The really important shit will not be helped by leaving the EU - it will likely be much worse. | |||
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"Can you remember the furore about the bankers and their excessive bonuses? Public enemies number 1. So a guy gets a £75m bonus (Construction) is that excessive? They capped bankers bonuses - should we be looking at capping ALL BONUSES? " . It was part of his contract when he took the job that shares would be linked to bonuses, if I was him I'd feel bloody annoyed at people who haven't been as successful as him demanding that he doesn't get his contact honoured. Of course the other side to this coin is government subsidy to housing which his company have benefited from immensely. | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? It is this kind of thing that causes my brain to explode when I listen to the arguments for/against Brexit. What the absolute fuck is really important? Our membership to the worlds largest and most successful political and economic union or tackling poverty and austerity and dealing with the funding issues for NHS, schools and Police? The really important shit will not be helped by leaving the EU - it will likely be much worse." Cucumbers are important and cultural nostalgia.  | |||
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"If everyone paid the 20% no matter what the earnings it would be much easier to collect and less attractive for people to try avoiding paying the extortionate rates they clobber high earners with. " That, like the rest of neo-liberal economics is a total bullshit con job, and you my friend, like the vast majority of those in the west have swallowed the con for the last 40 years. Let me explain reality to you. Firstly, those who look to avoid and evade paying income tax would do so regardless of what rate it is set at. Secondly the rich are NOT wealth creators, they are wealth destroyers. It is the poor and those at the lower end of the income scale who are the real wealth creators. The rich have everything and can only consume so much, the rest they hoard thus reducing money supply and making us all poorer, nor does giving tax breaks to corporations create jobs or wealth, all corporate tax-breaks do is inflate corporate profits. Corporations only create jobs when there is a need to increase production to meet demand. On the other hand increasing the income of the poorest in a society increase spending because the poor do not have everything. Thus increasing demand which in turn requires increased production and employment to meet that demand. Thus increasing economic activity further as the money supply increases. The idea that everything can be funded by spending taxes and a low flat rate income tax is absurd. The only way to run an advanced economy with an efficient infrastructure is to run a high tax economy that is based on a progressive income personal and corporate tax system with draconian punishments for individuals and businesses that are found evading taxes or transferring untaxed earnings out of the country. Now I know some are going to call me a communist or loony leftist for saying this. But look around and be honest with yourselves. Where are all these jobs and all this wealth that 40 years of Thatcherism and Reaganomics is supposed to have delivered? Or you can continue to believe giving money to the most wealth is the way forward and continue to watch the numbers sleeping on the street increase as our NHS, our roads, our railways, our education system, our armed forces and every industry continues to decline or be bought up at bargain basement prices by foreigners. 
But hey, what do I know. I've probably got it all wrong and we are living in the greatest boom ever and austerity is nothing but a 'vigbox' of my imagination. | |||
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"One look at the inequality graph for the UK and you can see where these figures come from. A few hoarding wealth at the expense of the many. The redistributive nature of the Labour years came to an abrupt halt under the coalition. Public spending on the least well off in society was attacked from every angle of Government and the “savings” redistributed upwards in tax policy towards the better off. Consequently, the gap between the have’s and have not’s gets wider. There are examples throughout history of government collapsing in violent overthrow when inequality becomes too great a burden for the masses to bear." Yep... The riots in France have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with the increase of poverty. Maybe it is time we stopped tugging our forelocks and started sharpening our pitchforks! Maybe sticking a couple of Tory multimillionaires and a few of their merchant wanker mates on a bonfire would make them change their economic and social policies. | |||
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"If everyone paid the 20% no matter what the earnings it would be much easier to collect and less attractive for people to try avoiding paying the extortionate rates they clobber high earners with. That, like the rest of neo-liberal economics is a total bullshit con job, and you my friend, like the vast majority of those in the west have swallowed the con for the last 40 years. Let me explain reality to you. Firstly, those who look to avoid and evade paying income tax would do so regardless of what rate it is set at. Secondly the rich are NOT wealth creators, they are wealth destroyers. It is the poor and those at the lower end of the income scale who are the real wealth creators. The rich have everything and can only consume so much, the rest they hoard thus reducing money supply and making us all poorer, nor does giving tax breaks to corporations create jobs or wealth, all corporate tax-breaks do is inflate corporate profits. Corporations only create jobs when there is a need to increase production to meet demand. On the other hand increasing the income of the poorest in a society increase spending because the poor do not have everything. Thus increasing demand which in turn requires increased production and employment to meet that demand. Thus increasing economic activity further as the money supply increases. The idea that everything can be funded by spending taxes and a low flat rate income tax is absurd. The only way to run an advanced economy with an efficient infrastructure is to run a high tax economy that is based on a progressive income personal and corporate tax system with draconian punishments for individuals and businesses that are found evading taxes or transferring untaxed earnings out of the country. Now I know some are going to call me a communist or loony leftist for saying this. But look around and be honest with yourselves. Where are all these jobs and all this wealth that 40 years of Thatcherism and Reaganomics is supposed to have delivered? Or you can continue to believe giving money to the most wealth is the way forward and continue to watch the numbers sleeping on the street increase as our NHS, our roads, our railways, our education system, our armed forces and every industry continues to decline or be bought up at bargain basement prices by foreigners.
But hey, what do I know. I've probably got it all wrong and we are living in the greatest boom ever and austerity is nothing but a 'vigbox' of my imagination.". Bejesus man the 70s ended 40 years ago, the world kept spinning and increased demand is now the preserve of automation mostly. You've not got it all wrong but you've got great big swathes of it wrong, like we are living in the greatest amount of prosperity ever in history, half the third world like China,India,Malaysia and the entire Soviet Union block would have been in the 70s are no longer piss poor, yes it's come at the expense of working poor in the West and that is the fault of neo liberals in the main who for the last 40 years have just said we can raise taxes and give them money. Capital is global, pretending that you can use 1970s tax systems in the 21st century is, well laughable at best. | |||
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2 there's only 5 million of them, try putting 66 million in Norway and there tell me how far there oil revenue is going to take them?.
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"I wish people would start harping on about Norway and Norwegian oil. 1 Norway has implemented an austerity budget for the last few years .
2 there's only 5 million of them, try putting 66 million in Norway and there tell me how far there oil revenue is going to take them?.
"If only we were in the same shape as Norway! | |||
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"Yet we spend 14 billion on overseas aid and that’s ok for some on here we have India China Pakistan money we could of spent on our own kids and old ppl in the U.K. " We spend 200 billion on Trident. Or we can save money by closing tax loop holes of the super rich. There’s plenty of money to fulfill our obligations to counties like Pakistan and India, where we contributed to their poverty, and to look after people here properly. The only problem is the lack of political will. | |||
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"Bejesus man the 70s ended 40 years ago, the world kept spinning and increased demand is now the preserve of automation mostly. You've not got it all wrong but you've got great big swathes of it wrong, like we are living in the greatest amount of prosperity ever in history, half the third world like China,India,Malaysia and the entire Soviet Union block would have been in the 70s are no longer piss poor, yes it's come at the expense of working poor in the West and that is the fault of neo liberals in the main who for the last 40 years have just said we can raise taxes and give them money. Capital is global, pretending that you can use 1970s tax systems in the 21st century is, well laughable at best." So lets see if I have this right, my analysis of the basic economic facts about how and where wealth is generated and lost is correct but because capital is global we and international corporations are either transferring production to other parts of the world (having first been allowed by our politicians to buy up our production capabilities on the cheap) or automating production we can't tax the profits they make by selling us stuff. Also because in the past 40 years most of us have accumulated 40 years worth of tat we are somehow better off and need to keep going in the same direction! Give me a break! There were over 3.5 MILLION hidden homeless in the UK in 2015 (thats sofa surfing) and the like. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39745253 There are millions more adults unable to move out of their parents homes and living in insecure private rented accommodation where the rents are so high (because they are paying the mortgage plus the landlords 'profits' on the property that they will never be able to afford to escape the rent trap. And you seem to think there is no alternative and we cant tax the filthy rich tax dodgers! Wake up! Smell the shit you're shoveling and maybe spend a little time working out where it is all coming from. Maybe ask yourself what those producing the shit your shoveling are gaining out of making this dung heap! Or keep telling yourself that everything is great and hope that when you need urgent medical care for the heart attack or stroke your having your private insurance will cover a private emergency ambulance to take you to the private hospital A&E and will be with you in 10/15 minutes and a further 10/15 minutes later you will be getting treated. (Bet you don't have that sort of cover, but you did from the NHS in the 70's.) And that come your 60/65/67th birthday the pension annuity you have been paying into for the last near 50 years has not been so hollowed out to pay bonuses to the fund managers and corporate executives that there is fuck all left for you to live on! Remember it's Equitable Life, Henry... | |||
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"When the Government funds tax cuts for the rich by cutting funding of local government, NHS, infrastructure and benefits for the poorest in the country then as those cuts bite and reduce employment and the money supply more and more people fall into poverty. The shame is we (as a nation) have become so absorbed in crushing those less fortunate than ourselves that we fail to notice how we are all being crushed by the troughing pigs at the top of the pyramid." Being crushed how? | |||
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"Yet we spend 14 billion on overseas aid and that’s ok for some on here we have India China Pakistan money we could of spent on our own kids and old ppl in the U.K. We spend 200 billion on Trident. Or we can save money by closing tax loop holes of the super rich. There’s plenty of money to fulfill our obligations to counties like Pakistan and India, where we contributed to their poverty, and to look after people here properly. The only problem is the lack of political will. " trident is a fair point but it’s no good moaning about the poor in the U.K. when we are spending money looking after the poor in other countries doesn’t make sense | |||
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"Define poor " Can't afford a new Xbox this xmas  | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough?" So you've suddenly developed a concern for the poor then OP? These same poor people who remainers refer to as oiks, riff raff, chavs and plebs, which you're happy to go along with. Maybe when you stop patronising the poor, talking down to them or hurling personal abuse at them i might actually believe you. | |||
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"If everyone paid the 20% no matter what the earnings it would be much easier to collect and less attractive for people to try avoiding paying the extortionate rates they clobber high earners with. That, like the rest of neo-liberal economics is a total bullshit con job, and you my friend, like the vast majority of those in the west have swallowed the con for the last 40 years. Let me explain reality to you. Firstly, those who look to avoid and evade paying income tax would do so regardless of what rate it is set at. Secondly the rich are NOT wealth creators, they are wealth destroyers. It is the poor and those at the lower end of the income scale who are the real wealth creators. The rich have everything and can only consume so much, the rest they hoard thus reducing money supply and making us all poorer, nor does giving tax breaks to corporations create jobs or wealth, all corporate tax-breaks do is inflate corporate profits. Corporations only create jobs when there is a need to increase production to meet demand. On the other hand increasing the income of the poorest in a society increase spending because the poor do not have everything. Thus increasing demand which in turn requires increased production and employment to meet that demand. Thus increasing economic activity further as the money supply increases. The idea that everything can be funded by spending taxes and a low flat rate income tax is absurd. The only way to run an advanced economy with an efficient infrastructure is to run a high tax economy that is based on a progressive income personal and corporate tax system with draconian punishments for individuals and businesses that are found evading taxes or transferring untaxed earnings out of the country. Now I know some are going to call me a communist or loony leftist for saying this. But look around and be honest with yourselves. Where are all these jobs and all this wealth that 40 years of Thatcherism and Reaganomics is supposed to have delivered? Or you can continue to believe giving money to the most wealth is the way forward and continue to watch the numbers sleeping on the street increase as our NHS, our roads, our railways, our education system, our armed forces and every industry continues to decline or be bought up at bargain basement prices by foreigners.
But hey, what do I know. I've probably got it all wrong and we are living in the greatest boom ever and austerity is nothing but a 'vigbox' of my imagination."What a crock of shit....look out your window to see some of the most prosperous living conditions in human history! How are the poor creating wealth? Sitting at home watching day time TV, drinking cans and beating the wife?
At least companies creates products, services and jobs.. agriculture for example...turning a seed plus soil ,water and labour into food. Those bastard capitalists. | |||
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"Define poor " I think the remainer definition of poor on here is oiks, riff raff, chavs, and plebs. | |||
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"Define poor I think the remainer definition of poor on here is oiks, riff raff, chavs, and plebs. " What's that got to do with this thread? | |||
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"Yet we spend 14 billion on overseas aid and that’s ok for some on here we have India China Pakistan money we could of spent on our own kids and old ppl in the U.K. We spend 200 billion on Trident. Or we can save money by closing tax loop holes of the super rich. There’s plenty of money to fulfill our obligations to counties like Pakistan and India, where we contributed to their poverty, and to look after people here properly. The only problem is the lack of political will. trident is a fair point but it’s no good moaning about the poor in the U.K. when we are spending money looking after the poor in other countries doesn’t make sense " The government wastes money left right and centre, I wouldn’t put overseas aid anywhere near to the top of the list of things we should cut in order to easy austerity. | |||
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"Bejesus man the 70s ended 40 years ago, the world kept spinning and increased demand is now the preserve of automation mostly. You've not got it all wrong but you've got great big swathes of it wrong, like we are living in the greatest amount of prosperity ever in history, half the third world like China,India,Malaysia and the entire Soviet Union block would have been in the 70s are no longer piss poor, yes it's come at the expense of working poor in the West and that is the fault of neo liberals in the main who for the last 40 years have just said we can raise taxes and give them money. Capital is global, pretending that you can use 1970s tax systems in the 21st century is, well laughable at best. So lets see if I have this right, my analysis of the basic economic facts about how and where wealth is generated and lost is correct but because capital is global we and international corporations are either transferring production to other parts of the world (having first been allowed by our politicians to buy up our production capabilities on the cheap) or automating production we can't tax the profits they make by selling us stuff. Also because in the past 40 years most of us have accumulated 40 years worth of tat we are somehow better off and need to keep going in the same direction! Give me a break! There were over 3.5 MILLION hidden homeless in the UK in 2015 (thats sofa surfing) and the like. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39745253 There are millions more adults unable to move out of their parents homes and living in insecure private rented accommodation where the rents are so high (because they are paying the mortgage plus the landlords 'profits' on the property that they will never be able to afford to escape the rent trap. And you seem to think there is no alternative and we cant tax the filthy rich tax dodgers! Wake up! Smell the shit you're shoveling and maybe spend a little time working out where it is all coming from. Maybe ask yourself what those producing the shit your shoveling are gaining out of making this dung heap! Or keep telling yourself that everything is great and hope that when you need urgent medical care for the heart attack or stroke your having your private insurance will cover a private emergency ambulance to take you to the private hospital A&E and will be with you in 10/15 minutes and a further 10/15 minutes later you will be getting treated. (Bet you don't have that sort of cover, but you did from the NHS in the 70's.) And that come your 60/65/67th birthday the pension annuity you have been paying into for the last near 50 years has not been so hollowed out to pay bonuses to the fund managers and corporate executives that there is fuck all left for you to live on! Remember it's Equitable Life, Henry..." Every part of your argument relies on people have little to no personal agency. The vast majority of people are where they are as the direct product of their cumulative life decisions. You have a 30-50 year free run at being productive once you emerge from whatever start you had in life. Don't like the pension fund manager? Tell him to fuck off and manage your own money .. you'll save 1% fees per year ...just one of many cumulative life choices
Have a pension? Living to 75? You're not THAT poor!! | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? So you've suddenly developed a concern for the poor then OP? These same poor people who remainers refer to as oiks, riff raff, chavs and plebs, which you're happy to go along with. Maybe when you stop patronising the poor, talking down to them or hurling personal abuse at them i might actually believe you. " Actually I am a humanitarian are you? Your the one who CONSTANTLY states how rich and how well we are doing not me! I just feel sad that a rich country (5th ) richest in the world that people are working and 4 MILLION are in poverty - but then you advocate on numerous occasions how good our unemployment figures are - and I continue to hold you to account about zero hours contracts (1.8m) - Just shows how good it is, 4 Million would disagree with you! | |||
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"It needs dealing with. Firstly we need to educate as the UK has some of the lowest financial literacy in the western world, secondly a tax regime that doesn't just target the top 5% but looks at the likes of Google and Facebook and other corporates who squirrel profits away in low tax havens. And third we need some proper investment in skills and national projects to increase wage rates across the board." I cannot remember now which report it was, but there was a report about skills in a particularly sector of the economy published three years or so ago by a Government department. The bit that took my breath away was a statement that almost 50 per cent of school-leavers have the literacy and numeracy skills expected of an 11-year-old. Now, kids start leaving school at 16, yeah? Officially, anyway. What happened to them in those five "missing" years? When they were 11, did they have the skills of a 6 year old? Or did they stop learning at the age of 11? I found that staggering. | |||
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"Define poor I think the remainer definition of poor on here is oiks, riff raff, chavs, and plebs. " That's a very cheap shot. For the purpose of this report, poverty is defined as income of 60 % or less than the average. | |||
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"Every part of your argument relies on people have little to no personal agency. The vast majority of people are where they are as the direct product of their cumulative life decisions. You have a 30-50 year free run at being productive once you emerge from whatever start you had in life. Don't like the pension fund manager? Tell him to fuck off and manage your own money .. you'll save 1% fees per year ...just one of many cumulative life choices
Have a pension? Living to 75? You're not THAT poor!! "You keep telling yourself that, and hope you don't end up being bankrupted by the likes of Trump or Lehman Brothers or that you ever find yourself working for a shit like Sir Philip Green who steals your future. Or that you find yourself in negative equity because a housing bubble bursts at the same time as your income dries up because your whole economy was built on that housing bubble. I seem to remember that happened in the ROI not so long ago. But hey what do I know, you're probably right and the vast majority of people are where they are through their own fault. It's an Equitable Life, Henry. | |||
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"Yet we spend 14 billion on overseas aid and that’s ok for some on here we have India China Pakistan money we could of spent on our own kids and old ppl in the U.K. " The people at the forefront of that argument would be aghast at the thought of spending it on poor people here instead. Their life has been devoted to looking after people like them by cutting their tax bills. | |||
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"Every part of your argument relies on people have little to no personal agency. The vast majority of people are where they are as the direct product of their cumulative life decisions. You have a 30-50 year free run at being productive once you emerge from whatever start you had in life. Don't like the pension fund manager? Tell him to fuck off and manage your own money .. you'll save 1% fees per year ...just one of many cumulative life choices
Have a pension? Living to 75? You're not THAT poor!!
You keep telling yourself that, and hope you don't end up being bankrupted by the likes of Trump or Lehman Brothers or that you ever find yourself working for a shit like Sir Philip Green who steals your future. Or that you find yourself in negative equity because a housing bubble bursts at the same time as your income dries up because your whole economy was built on that housing bubble. I seem to remember that happened in the ROI not so long ago.
But hey what do I know, you're probably right and the vast majority of people are where they are through their own fault.
It's an Equitable Life, Henry. "If that does happen it will be a mix of my own poor decisions and whatever good or bad luck I have.. and I'll brush myself off and keep going. Your systematic oppression narrative is a massive lie, Henry. | |||
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"If that does happen it will be a mix of my own poor decisions and whatever good or bad luck I have.. and I'll brush myself off and keep going. Your systematic oppression narrative is a massive lie, Henry. " Of course you will. Its an Equitable Life, Henry! | |||
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"Every part of your argument relies on people have little to no personal agency. The vast majority of people are where they are as the direct product of their cumulative life decisions. You have a 30-50 year free run at being productive once you emerge from whatever start you had in life. Don't like the pension fund manager? Tell him to fuck off and manage your own money .. you'll save 1% fees per year ...just one of many cumulative life choices
Have a pension? Living to 75? You're not THAT poor!!
You keep telling yourself that, and hope you don't end up being bankrupted by the likes of Trump or Lehman Brothers or that you ever find yourself working for a shit like Sir Philip Green who steals your future. Or that you find yourself in negative equity because a housing bubble bursts at the same time as your income dries up because your whole economy was built on that housing bubble. I seem to remember that happened in the ROI not so long ago.
But hey what do I know, you're probably right and the vast majority of people are where they are through their own fault.
It's an Equitable Life, Henry. "The reason Equitable Life went bust was because it promised too much - a bit like brexit! They didn't use brokers so they paid no commission - hence better pay outs! The fact that they were obviously crap at everything else is by the by! | |||
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"Define poor I think the remainer definition of poor on here is oiks, riff raff, chavs, and plebs. That's a very cheap shot. For the purpose of this report, poverty is defined as income of 60 % or less than the average. " So not really poor then? They have a income but that income is less than some but more than others. | |||
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"Working Tax Credits are just a means of subsidising low paid work. Question is, would we be prepared to pay a proper wage and accept higher prices?" Ah now your talking - works ok in Norway & Switzerland! | |||
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"Working Tax Credits are just a means of subsidising low paid work. Question is, would we be prepared to pay a proper wage and accept higher prices? Ah now your talking - works ok in Norway & Switzerland! " People in Switzerland get take away pizzas delivered over the border from Germany, at a third of the price! I take your point though but those two are relatively small and we'll off countries. | |||
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"Working Tax Credits are just a means of subsidising low paid work. Question is, would we be prepared to pay a proper wage and accept higher prices? Ah now your talking - works ok in Norway & Switzerland! People in Switzerland get take away pizzas delivered over the border from Germany, at a third of the price! I take your point though but those two are relatively small and we'll off countries." Basically you can't have it both ways! A lot of the problem is low productivity in the UK we need to increase that by better management, companies and then the employees will benefit! | |||
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"ALL BETS ARE OFF The Grieve amendment has just passed. Now watch Brexiters consume themselves with rage and frustration. Oh... the delicious irony of: "Taking back control" That is exactly what parliament has just done. This has been a very, very bad day for Theresa May - and she hasn't even made her speech yet." What is this about? Is Brexit cancelled yet? | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs." Really ! | |||
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"ALL BETS ARE OFF The Grieve amendment has just passed. Now watch Brexiters consume themselves with rage and frustration. Oh... the delicious irony of: "Taking back control" That is exactly what parliament has just done. This has been a very, very bad day for Theresa May - and she hasn't even made her speech yet. What is this about? Is Brexit cancelled yet?" No, it is a procedural amendment which means that after the meaningful vote next week Theresa May has to come back within 21 days with a further proposal and a further meaningful vote. Prior to this amendment, Theresa May had to come back within 21 days and tell Parliament what she was going to do. In other words, there is "supposedly" now NO CHANCE of a no deal Brexit. That said, it would not surprise me if our evidently honest and very transparent Govt will look at enacting some kind of obscure ruling to keep Parliament at bay. Because let's be honest - the last thing that they want is actual Parliamentary Sovereignty | |||
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"Define poor I think the remainer definition of poor on here is oiks, riff raff, chavs, and plebs. That's a very cheap shot. For the purpose of this report, poverty is defined as income of 60 % or less than the average. So not really poor then? They have a income but that income is less than some but more than others. " They are the poorest people in society. | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs." She could always chose to live somewhere cheaper and get a more serious job. I'd hazard a guess that she wears branded clothing, has a nice phone and goes out to eat and drink regularly. She will be fine 
Compassion is reserved for those without a pot to piss in. | |||
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"The reason Equitable Life went bust was because it promised too much - a bit like brexit! They didn't use brokers so they paid no commission - hence better pay outs! The fact that they were obviously crap at everything else is by the by!" The reason Equitable Life went bust is inconsequential. The fact that not only did it go bust but it was taking on new business that included lump sum payments from local government, civil service and military pension payment pots right up to the moment it declared bankruptcy even tho it know it was going down the tubes for weeks if not months is the real point that is being deliberately missed or ignored by those who would have you believe that we are all masters of our own fate when the reality is that all of us but a very few are nothing more than numbers and our whole futures can be wiped out with the press of a button. Whole swathes of humanity are sacrificed daily to corporate greed and should your number come up there is fuck all you can do about it regardless of 'how classless and free' you think yourself. Just spend 5 and half minutes listening to this, and open your eyes and mind. https://youtu.be/PGyObuH3WTY | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs.Really !" Was that meant to be a question mark? | |||
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"Define poor I think the remainer definition of poor on here is oiks, riff raff, chavs, and plebs. That's a very cheap shot. For the purpose of this report, poverty is defined as income of 60 % or less than the average. So not really poor then? They have a income but that income is less than some but more than others. They are the poorest people in society. " They are poorest of a very rich society therefore can not be define as poor. Less well off maybe but not poor. | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs.Really ! Was that meant to be a question mark?" nope | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs. She could always chose to live somewhere cheaper and get a more serious job. I'd hazard a guess that she wears branded clothing, has a nice phone and goes out to eat and drink regularly. She will be fine
Compassion is reserved for those without a pot to piss in. "If you read my post fully you will realise that I was giving an example of what is the norm for many young people and I know she’ll be alright but there are many who won’t be and I wonder what you are doing to help? | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs. She could always chose to live somewhere cheaper and get a more serious job. I'd hazard a guess that she wears branded clothing, has a nice phone and goes out to eat and drink regularly. She will be fine
Compassion is reserved for those without a pot to piss in.
If you read my post fully you will realise that I was giving an example of what is the norm for many young people and I know she’ll be alright but there are many who won’t be and I wonder what you are doing to help? "You want me to subsidise your daughter's lifestyle?  | |||
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"The reason Equitable Life went bust was because it promised too much - a bit like brexit! They didn't use brokers so they paid no commission - hence better pay outs! The fact that they were obviously crap at everything else is by the by! The reason Equitable Life went bust is inconsequential. The fact that not only did it go bust but it was taking on new business that included lump sum payments from local government, civil service and military pension payment pots right up to the moment it declared bankruptcy even tho it know it was going down the tubes for weeks if not months is the real point that is being deliberately missed or ignored by those who would have you believe that we are all masters of our own fate when the reality is that all of us but a very few are nothing more than numbers and our whole futures can be wiped out with the press of a button. Whole swathes of humanity are sacrificed daily to corporate greed and should your number come up there is fuck all you can do about it regardless of 'how classless and free' you think yourself. Just spend 5 and half minutes listening to this, and open your eyes and mind. https://youtu.be/PGyObuH3WTY" Will I was an IFA at the time - we knew it was on a slippery slope, but accountants (mainly) recommended them and it was us just having "sour grapes". I know people who were devastated and why I have always controlled my own pension pot! The reason these things happen is poor regulation - Maxwell showed how easy it was and that was years ago and it's still happening. Brexit elites want LOW regulation it's only going to get worse! P.S. Gordon Brown didn't help either! | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs. She could always chose to live somewhere cheaper and get a more serious job. I'd hazard a guess that she wears branded clothing, has a nice phone and goes out to eat and drink regularly. She will be fine
Compassion is reserved for those without a pot to piss in.
If you read my post fully you will realise that I was giving an example of what is the norm for many young people and I know she’ll be alright but there are many who won’t be and I wonder what you are doing to help?
You want me to subsidise your daughter's lifestyle?
"Are you having trouble with your eyesight? £1 of £45,000 is not exactly 1/45 and I wouldn’t want you going anywhere near my daughter by the way. Incidentally I and three of my friends do a thing where instead of going to the pub we put £30 each in a kitty and go to Tesco and buy food which goes into the food bank collection. What do you do? | |||
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Right now, aside from people sleeping rough and outside of the social welfare safety net..nobody would get anything. There are worse cases elsewhere. | |||
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" They are poorest of a very rich society therefore can not be define as poor. Less well off maybe but not poor. " Ok, let's rephrase things further. People who use food backs are actually just less than rich. People who cannot afford to heat their homes are actually just canny people saving money. Are you alright, Jack? | |||
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" They are poorest of a very rich society therefore can not be define as poor. Less well off maybe but not poor. Ok, let's rephrase things further. People who use food backs are actually just less than rich. People who cannot afford to heat their homes are actually just canny people saving money. Are you alright, Jack? " They have houses | |||
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" They are poorest of a very rich society therefore can not be define as poor. Less well off maybe but not poor. Ok, let's rephrase things further. People who use food backs are actually just less than rich. People who cannot afford to heat their homes are actually just canny people saving money. Are you alright, Jack? " Interesting reply.Why the personal attack? | |||
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" They are poorest of a very rich society therefore can not be define as poor. Less well off maybe but not poor. Ok, let's rephrase things further. People who use food backs are actually just less than rich. People who cannot afford to heat their homes are actually just canny people saving money. Are you alright, Jack? Interesting reply.Why the personal attack? " Probably because it was a cheap shot by our Irish friend? | |||
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" Probably because it was a cheap shot by our Irish friend?" What cheap shot? | |||
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" They are poorest of a very rich society therefore can not be define as poor. Less well off maybe but not poor. Ok, let's rephrase things further. People who use food backs are actually just less than rich. People who cannot afford to heat their homes are actually just canny people saving money. Are you alright, Jack? They have houses "Do they? That's a big problem in the UK we desperately need decent affordable housing. We have not been building enough houses since the 1970's! | |||
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"I get on my soapbox here and try to dissuade people from falling for low resolution theories, to stop looking for scapegoats and to practice personal responsibility. I also give money, case by case to the most down and out people that I see. My dream for the future is to be in a position to solve real world problems by looking at the facts and using dynamic allocation of resources. It would work like this, focus on the very worst off until they are no longer the worst and keep going.
Right now, aside from people sleeping rough and outside of the social welfare safety net..nobody would get anything. There are worse cases elsewhere. "Are you sure you’re not one of those Bally socialists? | |||
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"I get on my soapbox here and try to dissuade people from falling for low resolution theories, to stop looking for scapegoats and to practice personal responsibility. I also give money, case by case to the most down and out people that I see. My dream for the future is to be in a position to solve real world problems by looking at the facts and using dynamic allocation of resources. It would work like this, focus on the very worst off until they are no longer the worst and keep going.
Right now, aside from people sleeping rough and outside of the social welfare safety net..nobody would get anything. There are worse cases elsewhere.
Are you sure you’re not one of those Bally socialists? "A what? | |||
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"Will I was an IFA at the time - we knew it was on a slippery slope, but accountants (mainly) recommended them and it was us just having "sour grapes". I know people who were devastated and why I have always controlled my own pension pot! The reason these things happen is poor regulation - Maxwell showed how easy it was and that was years ago and it's still happening. Brexit elites want LOW regulation it's only going to get worse! P.S. Gordon Brown didn't help either!" I think we are on the same side. I have no problem with wealth or capitalism provided income is progressively taxed to a point that if you take millions out of the money supply the government will take most of those millions away from you in taxes. Thus incentivising you to invest more, pay your workforce more and take less out of the system, and in that way grow your capital. Unfortunately the way the system works now all the incentives are for wealth to invest less, pay less and profit take more. Not a health state of affairs at all. But as I keep saying, what do I know. | |||
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"Will I was an IFA at the time - we knew it was on a slippery slope, but accountants (mainly) recommended them and it was us just having "sour grapes". I know people who were devastated and why I have always controlled my own pension pot! The reason these things happen is poor regulation - Maxwell showed how easy it was and that was years ago and it's still happening. Brexit elites want LOW regulation it's only going to get worse! P.S. Gordon Brown didn't help either! I think we are on the same side. I have no problem with wealth or capitalism provided income is progressively taxed to a point that if you take millions out of the money supply the government will take most of those millions away from you in taxes. Thus incentivising you to invest more, pay your workforce more and take less out of the system, and in that way grow your capital. Unfortunately the way the system works now all the incentives are for wealth to invest less, pay less and profit take more. Not a health state of affairs at all. But as I keep saying, what do I know." With the greatest respect going by what you have written not a lot | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough?" There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) | |||
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If the extreme right of the conservatives have their way, the UK could be supported by a vastly diminished state, with public infrastructure slashed - you'll be on your own, with minimal help for anything. They've already slashed legal aid help, that did provide some support for the poorer to seek legal redress, following life crises. We know that reductions to benefits costs - whether in-work or out-of-work benefits - have been pursued by the conservatives, often leading to many people, such as the disabled and sick, to lose or take their lives. And they currently are reducing benefit payments over the next few years too - which will make life much, much worse for thousands of people. This helps them to accomplish a goal of reduction in the size of the state. Ultimately everyone could purchase private insurance for this, that and the other life issue - this may be universally available, so you won't have to rely on an NHS for example. Just as everyone is welcome to stay at the Ritz - there's no ban on you - it's really only an option for those who are rather better off than the types of people that we see are having their lives eviscerated by the conservatives, as well as the public systems that have been established to support them.
In the UK you have a government that cares little, if at all, for those who are poorer. They wouldn't make the changes that they are if they did, whilst simultaneously providing tax cuts for those who are richer (all following a period of austerity measures that have disproportionately targeted the poorer, with savage cuts to their income and safety nets). But people are often short-sighted, forget much of the fragmented continuous assaults upon their well-being, hoping desperately that the positive messages proclaimed at election times could help them in future. And they'll often vote for a sick cabal of heartless cunts who will be helping them with the equivalent of digging their own graves, whilst their lives go down the shitter.
There are many ways to measure and report on poverty - the government's isn't potentially inaccurate, it's just not particularly fit for purpose, if your objective is to highlight how much/little expendible income people have, following their monthly essential costs. | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs." . It could be! But then again it could be 40 years of liberal drug policy.  | |||
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"I wish people would start harping on about Norway and Norwegian oil. 1 Norway has implemented an austerity budget for the last few years .
2 there's only 5 million of them, try putting 66 million in Norway and there tell me how far there oil revenue is going to take them?.
If only we were in the same shape as Norway! ". What you mean not in the EU? | |||
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"People have faced a barrage of assaults upon their living standards, exacerbated following the global financial crash in 2008. In the UK, the Conservative led governments have frozen benefits for in and out of work people for many years since the crash, whilst of course the costs of living hae faced sharp increases - particularly for housing. For many years too, wage changes were out of step with inflation, so disposable income suffered decline. As in-work benefits have been reduced in real-terms, costs of childcare for working families have also risen: so people have faced rising costs for years, to chase/secure a fairly static income. The Conservative driven Brexit episode has also knocked many back, potentially with less secure employment. As the op highlights, there are now many more people in insecure types of employment than there were previously - many of whom have multiple parrallel jobs, often with the same level of insecurity. The government's own measure of poverty totally ignores the cost of housing - although it's typically a person's biggest cost - it's patently ridiculous, as it supports their picture of the masses as living in a rose tinted world, which they hope you'll buy into, as well as vote for them in future, after hearing news reports of their poverty calculations all sounding so positive
If the extreme right of the conservatives have their way, the UK could be supported by a vastly diminished state, with public infrastructure slashed - you'll be on your own, with minimal help for anything. They've already slashed legal aid help, that did provide some support for the poorer to seek legal redress, following life crises. We know that reductions to benefits costs - whether in-work or out-of-work benefits - have been pursued by the conservatives, often leading to many people, such as the disabled and sick, to lose or take their lives. And they currently are reducing benefit payments over the next few years too - which will make life much, much worse for thousands of people. This helps them to accomplish a goal of reduction in the size of the state. Ultimately everyone could purchase private insurance for this, that and the other life issue - this may be universally available, so you won't have to rely on an NHS for example. Just as everyone is welcome to stay at the Ritz - there's no ban on you - it's really only an option for those who are rather better off than the types of people that we see are having their lives eviscerated by the conservatives, as well as the public systems that have been established to support them.
In the UK you have a government that cares little, if at all, for those who are poorer. They wouldn't make the changes that they are if they did, whilst simultaneously providing tax cuts for those who are richer (all following a period of austerity measures that have disproportionately targeted the poorer, with savage cuts to their income and safety nets). But people are often short-sighted, forget much of the fragmented continuous assaults upon their well-being, hoping desperately that the positive messages proclaimed at election times could help them in future. And they'll often vote for a sick cabal of heartless cunts who will be helping them with the equivalent of digging their own graves, whilst their lives go down the shitter.
There are many ways to measure and report on poverty - the government's isn't potentially inaccurate, it's just not particularly fit for purpose, if your objective is to highlight how much/little expendible income people have, following their monthly essential costs."I agree with everything in your post | |||
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"Bejesus man the 70s ended 40 years ago, the world kept spinning and increased demand is now the preserve of automation mostly. You've not got it all wrong but you've got great big swathes of it wrong, like we are living in the greatest amount of prosperity ever in history, half the third world like China,India,Malaysia and the entire Soviet Union block would have been in the 70s are no longer piss poor, yes it's come at the expense of working poor in the West and that is the fault of neo liberals in the main who for the last 40 years have just said we can raise taxes and give them money. Capital is global, pretending that you can use 1970s tax systems in the 21st century is, well laughable at best. So lets see if I have this right, my analysis of the basic economic facts about how and where wealth is generated and lost is correct but because capital is global we and international corporations are either transferring production to other parts of the world (having first been allowed by our politicians to buy up our production capabilities on the cheap) or automating production we can't tax the profits they make by selling us stuff. Also because in the past 40 years most of us have accumulated 40 years worth of tat we are somehow better off and need to keep going in the same direction! Give me a break! There were over 3.5 MILLION hidden homeless in the UK in 2015 (thats sofa surfing) and the like. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39745253 There are millions more adults unable to move out of their parents homes and living in insecure private rented accommodation where the rents are so high (because they are paying the mortgage plus the landlords 'profits' on the property that they will never be able to afford to escape the rent trap. And you seem to think there is no alternative and we cant tax the filthy rich tax dodgers! Wake up! Smell the shit you're shoveling and maybe spend a little time working out where it is all coming from. Maybe ask yourself what those producing the shit your shoveling are gaining out of making this dung heap! Or keep telling yourself that everything is great and hope that when you need urgent medical care for the heart attack or stroke your having your private insurance will cover a private emergency ambulance to take you to the private hospital A&E and will be with you in 10/15 minutes and a further 10/15 minutes later you will be getting treated. (Bet you don't have that sort of cover, but you did from the NHS in the 70's.) And that come your 60/65/67th birthday the pension annuity you have been paying into for the last near 50 years has not been so hollowed out to pay bonuses to the fund managers and corporate executives that there is fuck all left for you to live on! Remember it's Equitable Life, Henry... Every part of your argument relies on people have little to no personal agency. The vast majority of people are where they are as the direct product of their cumulative life decisions. You have a 30-50 year free run at being productive once you emerge from whatever start you had in life. Don't like the pension fund manager? Tell him to fuck off and manage your own money .. you'll save 1% fees per year ...just one of many cumulative life choices
Have a pension? Living to 75? You're not THAT poor!! ". Your wasting your time, you can lead a horse and all that. ANYBODY on government work schemes can get a laptop, enrol on a multitude of technical courses and educational courses and work there arse off in as many jobs as they can get hold of, work up a ladder to higher pay and better conditions, free food from food banks! Holy shit what would somebody in India complain about that for?, you mean you have to walk to the food bank to get your free food, ffs the bloody capitalists bastards, if only I lived in Venezuela where I could eat my dog at home instead!!. | |||
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"The UK government cares so little they give them free health care, free dental, free glasses, free houses, free cars, free energy costs, free food, free schooling, free university costs, free laptops, free prescriptions, free school dinners, free bus passes, free time to walk around town drinking White lightning ... But apart from all that... Whatve these capitalist totalitarian bastards ever done for us!!!. I ask yer" Alberto you are just being silly now - get back on the naughty step | |||
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"With the greatest respect going by what you have written not a lot " Funny how I am always able to explain how I reach reach my conclusions and if asked back them up by examples, but those who tell me I know nothing are never back their assertions up with anything more than their supposedly innate superiority that needs no other justification. But again, what do I know. After all it must be obvious to all how wrongheaded my thought processes are if they can be so casually dismissed in a single unsubstantiated sentence. I just wish I had your grasp of the realities of corporate and business raison d'etre. | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact)" I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story?" Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts." I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think? | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think?" The harsh thing for people is where they may be juggling commitments from multiple employers who MAY give them some work, childcare contracts that must be paid for and getting kids between home and there or school, often with lousy transportation options. Meanwhile rent etc must be paid and everyone fed. The employees now stand most of the risk for business flexibility, with little to no gain in benefit. A revolution is needed, reasserting UK employee rights. | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs.. It could be! But then again it could be 40 years of liberal drug policy. "Not half liberal enough. I think Singapore is the place for you Bertie | |||
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"The UK government cares so little they give them free health care, free dental, free glasses, free houses, free cars, free energy costs, free food, free schooling, free university costs, free laptops, free prescriptions, free school dinners, free bus passes, free time to walk around town drinking White lightning ... But apart from all that... Whatve these capitalist totalitarian bastards ever done for us!!!. I ask yer" Agreed People think it's heartless that whole swathes of society have their benefits reduced...whilst casually ignoring that many have never worked a day in their lives and live for very comfortably (relative to global standards) for free* *This line of thinking obviously excludes people who are physically or mentally unfit for work. They should get more. | |||
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"With the greatest respect going by what you have written not a lot Funny how I am always able to explain how I reach reach my conclusions and if asked back them up by examples, but those who tell me I know nothing are never back their assertions up with anything more than their supposedly innate superiority that needs no other justification. But again, what do I know. After all it must be obvious to all how wrongheaded my thought processes are if they can be so casually dismissed in a single unsubstantiated sentence. I just wish I had your grasp of the realities of corporate and business raison d'etre. " It is obvious that you tend to exaggerate beyond all belief. You do make some good points too though. | |||
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"The bigger the wealth gap, the more unstable society becomes. The 2008 crash initiated it and the solution providing free credit and now tax cuts to the wealthy has exacerbated it. Then people need someone to blame. Somehow, and I haven't worked out the trick yet, foreigners or people of another religion or some other minority gets the blame rather than those driving the inequality. Individuals and organisations. The thing about having stacks of cash, is that by sitting on your backside you get bigger stacks of cash, much of which doesn't get spent or languishes in dead assets like property. Corporations buy back their shares to inflate stock prices that inflate bonuses and do not invest adequately. The money is better spent in the infrastructure and education and healthcare that improves the country. Things that both individuals and companies benefit from. Money spent on aid to countries in a worse state than us prevents their populations having to flee the wars, famines and utter poverty that we barely have an concept of. Where do they flee to do you think? Many people do seem to believe that the poor deserve to be poor because they are lazy. Some are. Most aren't. Only spending on the destitute and ignoring those merely in poverty means that the poor become destitute whilst you're ignoring them. Preventing the cause of problem is more effective and cheaper than patching. I don't know when kindness and compassion stopped being a "thing"." It didn't But when you starting defining poverty as 34 pounds per day.... I could certainly find food and a warm bed for that everyday with money leftover for small luxuries. Maybe not in a big city depending what rent is like but you know.... What's this free credit? | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think?" In which case you'll know that full fact do not say there are 1.8 M zero hours contracts, there are 780,000, but that of the 1.8M contracts that do not guarantee a minimum number of hours (which includes zero hours contracts and is the figure that the press has reported as being zero hours contracts), 1.3M of those people do not want more hours than they are doing. | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think? In which case you'll know that full fact do not say there are 1.8 M zero hours contracts, there are 780,000, but that of the 1.8M contracts that do not guarantee a minimum number of hours (which includes zero hours contracts and is the figure that the press has reported as being zero hours contracts), 1.3M of those people do not want more hours than they are doing." Since when did leavers care about facts? I actually said 1.8m zero hour contracts - did I give a specific date? No. I did a leave on Leave. I typed something into a search engine and said 1.8m zero hours contracts - was it false - no I did a Daily Fail & Daily Brexpress headline - don't like it? Welcome to the world of alternative facts! Thank Donald - it works both ways this crap! | |||
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"The bigger the wealth gap, the more unstable society becomes. The 2008 crash initiated it and the solution providing free credit and now tax cuts to the wealthy has exacerbated it. Then people need someone to blame. Somehow, and I haven't worked out the trick yet, foreigners or people of another religion or some other minority gets the blame rather than those driving the inequality. Individuals and organisations. The thing about having stacks of cash, is that by sitting on your backside you get bigger stacks of cash, much of which doesn't get spent or languishes in dead assets like property. Corporations buy back their shares to inflate stock prices that inflate bonuses and do not invest adequately. The money is better spent in the infrastructure and education and healthcare that improves the country. Things that both individuals and companies benefit from. Money spent on aid to countries in a worse state than us prevents their populations having to flee the wars, famines and utter poverty that we barely have an concept of. Where do they flee to do you think? Many people do seem to believe that the poor deserve to be poor because they are lazy. Some are. Most aren't. Only spending on the destitute and ignoring those merely in poverty means that the poor become destitute whilst you're ignoring them. Preventing the cause of problem is more effective and cheaper than patching. I don't know when kindness and compassion stopped being a "thing". It didn't But when you starting defining poverty as 34 pounds per day.... I could certainly find food and a warm bed for that everyday with money leftover for small luxuries. Maybe not in a big city depending what rent is like but you know.... What's this free credit?" Quantative easing. You like the hoarding of cash though and divergence on wealth and decay of the infrastructure that can only get bigger without any redistribution? | |||
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"It is obvious that you tend to exaggerate beyond all belief. You do make some good points too though. " I troll and use hyperbole when others hate and ignore the obvious because reality does not fit their agenda. Stop hating and twisting reality and I'll stop trolling and exaggerating. And that is not aimed at you but is a general statement to all. Also remember that I am one of the few here who is willing openly agree with anyone regardless of their politics if they make a valid point. | |||
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"The bigger the wealth gap, the more unstable society becomes. The 2008 crash initiated it and the solution providing free credit and now tax cuts to the wealthy has exacerbated it. Then people need someone to blame. Somehow, and I haven't worked out the trick yet, foreigners or people of another religion or some other minority gets the blame rather than those driving the inequality. Individuals and organisations. The thing about having stacks of cash, is that by sitting on your backside you get bigger stacks of cash, much of which doesn't get spent or languishes in dead assets like property. Corporations buy back their shares to inflate stock prices that inflate bonuses and do not invest adequately. The money is better spent in the infrastructure and education and healthcare that improves the country. Things that both individuals and companies benefit from. Money spent on aid to countries in a worse state than us prevents their populations having to flee the wars, famines and utter poverty that we barely have an concept of. Where do they flee to do you think? Many people do seem to believe that the poor deserve to be poor because they are lazy. Some are. Most aren't. Only spending on the destitute and ignoring those merely in poverty means that the poor become destitute whilst you're ignoring them. Preventing the cause of problem is more effective and cheaper than patching. I don't know when kindness and compassion stopped being a "thing". It didn't But when you starting defining poverty as 34 pounds per day.... I could certainly find food and a warm bed for that everyday with money leftover for small luxuries. Maybe not in a big city depending what rent is like but you know.... What's this free credit? Quantative easing. You like the hoarding of cash though and divergence on wealth and decay of the infrastructure that can only get bigger without any redistribution?" To flip your pointless argument on its head.... If everyone had the sense to live within their means, save and hoard cash there would be no poverty. Alternatively if the "hoarders" did spend their reserves freely then you would have much more cash in circulation and very high inflation. Quantities easing isn't free credit, it's cheaper credit. | |||
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"It is obvious that you tend to exaggerate beyond all belief. You do make some good points too though. I troll and use hyperbole when others hate and ignore the obvious because reality does not fit their agenda. Stop hating and twisting reality and I'll stop trolling and exaggerating. And that is not aimed at you but is a general statement to all. Also remember that I am one of the few here who is willing openly agree with anyone regardless of their politics if they make a valid point." Ok cool...but until you show us an actual mechanism for how the rich are directly stealing from the poor then I'll keep pointing out how baseless and ridiculous your argument is. It only works if you ignore personal decision making. The closest I'll come to agreeing with you is that the "poor" are victims of advertising and overspend. | |||
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"The UK government cares so little they give them free health care, free dental, free glasses, free houses, free cars, free energy costs, free food, free schooling, free university costs, free laptops, free prescriptions, free school dinners, free bus passes, free time to walk around town drinking White lightning ... But apart from all that... Whatve these capitalist totalitarian bastards ever done for us!!!. I ask yer Alberto you are just being silly now - get back on the naughty step ". Soz | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs.. It could be! But then again it could be 40 years of liberal drug policy.
Not half liberal enough.
I think Singapore is the place for you Bertie ". I love Singapore, they've got structures spot on. In Japan they jail you for taking Coke, not buying it out selling it, just taking it, guess what, they've got far less Coke idiots than we have, half the tits on this forum alone do Coke while indulging in threesomes, it's like they just can't get enough, I've no doubt that if they faced six months in prison for taking the stuff they might think twice but alas liberals have made it out that the only people who take drugs are victims of society, utter bollocks. | |||
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"Compassion is very lacking in any of these threads but my eldest who has had the benefits of a reasonable state education is living in London sharing a space with 8 people and her bedroom is basically a small section of an attic space. She works as a waitress while she tries to carry on a creative career and has just this month paid back the first £1 of her £45k student loan. She has no security and is unlikely to be able to pay back her student loan let alone pay for a mortgage and I would not be surprised that if she should have an accident or get ill she won’t be able to over her outgoings and will either have to come to the bank of dad or move in with me, and I actually think we are quite lucky compared to some. The problem with all you blue sky thinkers and thrusting executives is that you cannot see how little it takes for people to be just getting by and then to fall off the edge. There is so little room for manoeuvre these days unlike when I was growing up and chose to live in a hard to let flat so that I could pursue my chosen career. Young people have so little opportunity and so little help from the braying middle classes that it’s not surprising they turn to drugs.. It could be! But then again it could be 40 years of liberal drug policy.
Not half liberal enough.
I think Singapore is the place for you Bertie .
I love Singapore, they've got structures spot on.
In Japan they jail you for taking Coke, not buying it out selling it, just taking it, guess what, they've got far less Coke idiots than we have, half the tits on this forum alone do Coke while indulging in threesomes, it's like they just can't get enough, I've no doubt that if they faced six months in prison for taking the stuff they might think twice but alas liberals have made it out that the only people who take drugs are victims of society, utter bollocks."Good point but when comparing Japan with the UK you have to compare social attitudes. For example the older population tend to be looked after by the family - how many nursing homes do they have? Here it's different - like the tv ad says " right mum pack your bags you're off to the nursing home, we need your place for a billiard table- but I'm only 55". Just about sums it up I want my inheritance (obviously rich elites )! | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think? In which case you'll know that full fact do not say there are 1.8 M zero hours contracts, there are 780,000, but that of the 1.8M contracts that do not guarantee a minimum number of hours (which includes zero hours contracts and is the figure that the press has reported as being zero hours contracts), 1.3M of those people do not want more hours than they are doing. Since when did leavers care about facts? I actually said 1.8m zero hour contracts - did I give a specific date? No. I did a leave on Leave. I typed something into a search engine and said 1.8m zero hours contracts - was it false - no I did a Daily Fail & Daily Brexpress headline - don't like it? Welcome to the world of alternative facts! Thank Donald - it works both ways this crap! " So you admit you actually haven't quoted the facts....and you're upset with me for what, pointing that out to you?! | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think? In which case you'll know that full fact do not say there are 1.8 M zero hours contracts, there are 780,000, but that of the 1.8M contracts that do not guarantee a minimum number of hours (which includes zero hours contracts and is the figure that the press has reported as being zero hours contracts), 1.3M of those people do not want more hours than they are doing. Since when did leavers care about facts? I actually said 1.8m zero hour contracts - did I give a specific date? No. I did a leave on Leave. I typed something into a search engine and said 1.8m zero hours contracts - was it false - no I did a Daily Fail & Daily Brexpress headline - don't like it? Welcome to the world of alternative facts! Thank Donald - it works both ways this crap! So you admit you actually haven't quoted the facts....and you're upset with me for what, pointing that out to you?!" I quoted a fact 1.8m zero hours contracts - it's not false! The £350m on the side of a bus was a "fact" according to the leave campaign - the 1.8m is also a "fact". As for you upsetting me - I couldn't care less what you think it do - you are nothing to me! | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? There were estimated to be around 780,000 people employed on zero hours contracts as their main job between April and June 2018. In November 2017 there were estimated to be around 1.8 million contracts that “did not guarantee a minimum number of hours Of the 1.8 Million 'zero' hours contracts....72% don't want more hours than they are getting. (ONS, Taylor Review, and Full Fact) I just Googled how many zero hours contracts are there in the UK - answer 1.8m . I suppose that was a bit like leave in brexit debate - only half the story? Look at Full Fact and ONS for the full facts. I have, the point is, zero hours contracts are ridiculous, - not worth a light! At the end of the day, there is no guarantee, that you will work at all. All in favour of the employer. Just another way of manipulating the true unemployment figures. However, I acknowledge some people don't want to work more than the "average" 25 hrs a week and hey each to their own. But I am sure people would rather have an agreed number of hours guaranteed per week and apply "flexitime" to work them - don't you think? In which case you'll know that full fact do not say there are 1.8 M zero hours contracts, there are 780,000, but that of the 1.8M contracts that do not guarantee a minimum number of hours (which includes zero hours contracts and is the figure that the press has reported as being zero hours contracts), 1.3M of those people do not want more hours than they are doing. Since when did leavers care about facts? I actually said 1.8m zero hour contracts - did I give a specific date? No. I did a leave on Leave. I typed something into a search engine and said 1.8m zero hours contracts - was it false - no I did a Daily Fail & Daily Brexpress headline - don't like it? Welcome to the world of alternative facts! Thank Donald - it works both ways this crap! So you admit you actually haven't quoted the facts....and you're upset with me for what, pointing that out to you?! I quoted a fact 1.8m zero hours contracts - it's not false! The £350m on the side of a bus was a "fact" according to the leave campaign - the 1.8m is also a "fact". As for you upsetting me - I couldn't care less what you think it do - you are nothing to me!" Post Script: To quote the article and you: "But of the 1.8m contracts that do not guarantee a minimum number of hours " So if there a contract which guarantees no minimum number of hours then figuratively the contract is zero - it doesn't have 5,10 20 it has no guarantee therefore by definition it's "0"! Try taking a "no guaranteed minimum hours" to a lending institution - not worth the paper it's written on - zero, 0, no guaranteed minimum - All comes to the same figurative conclusion! Amen. | |||
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"The problem with these type of threads is this... Too many here have an intense jealousy for the wealthy that supercedes their compassion for the poor. Get over yourselves, if someone has a big pile of cash and they earned it legally that's not your concern. I agree that the weakest should be better protected but any argument that goes look at X, he has Y is just a sad, jealous rant. Live your own life! " You need to get a life, you talk a load of shit. | |||
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"The poor are poor because the rich stole their money is most basic low resolution theory on the populist circuit these days. Overly simplified for overly simple people " There is none so simple as yourself. Your knowledge of politics is miniscule, this shows with all that you say. | |||
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"The poor are poor because the rich stole their money is most basic low resolution theory on the populist circuit these days. Overly simplified for overly simple people There is none so simple as yourself. Your knowledge of politics is miniscule, this shows with all that you say. " Do you have an argument or just feeling a bit emotional? | |||
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"The poor are poor because the rich stole their money is most basic low resolution theory on the populist circuit these days. Overly simplified for overly simple people There is none so simple as yourself. Your knowledge of politics is miniscule, this shows with all that you say. Do you have an argument or just feeling a bit emotional?" That was definitely LOW resolution of you - go and sit on the naughty step until you can play nicely | |||
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"The poor are poor because the rich stole their money is most basic low resolution theory on the populist circuit these days. Overly simplified for overly simple people There is none so simple as yourself. Your knowledge of politics is miniscule, this shows with all that you say. Do you have an argument or just feeling a bit emotional?" It is not me who is emotional, i think you should take a good look at yourself as you think that you are right to shout down people who clearly understand politics far more than you do. You have alot to learn about political and economic reality. | |||
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"The poor are poor because the rich stole their money is most basic low resolution theory on the populist circuit these days. Overly simplified for overly simple people There is none so simple as yourself. Your knowledge of politics is miniscule, this shows with all that you say. Do you have an argument or just feeling a bit emotional? It is not me who is emotional, i think you should take a good look at yourself as you think that you are right to shout down people who clearly understand politics far more than you do. You have alot to learn about political and economic reality. " You are still saying nothing. Point out where I'm wrong. I'm open to learning. | |||
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"If everyone paid the 20% no matter what the earnings it would be much easier to collect and less attractive for people to try avoiding paying the extortionate rates they clobber high earners with. That, like the rest of neo-liberal economics is a total bullshit con job, and you my friend, like the vast majority of those in the west have swallowed the con for the last 40 years. Let me explain reality to you. Firstly, those who look to avoid and evade paying income tax would do so regardless of what rate it is set at. Secondly the rich are NOT wealth creators, they are wealth destroyers. It is the poor and those at the lower end of the income scale who are the real wealth creators. The rich have everything and can only consume so much, the rest they hoard thus reducing money supply and making us all poorer, nor does giving tax breaks to corporations create jobs or wealth, all corporate tax-breaks do is inflate corporate profits. Corporations only create jobs when there is a need to increase production to meet demand. On the other hand increasing the income of the poorest in a society increase spending because the poor do not have everything. Thus increasing demand which in turn requires increased production and employment to meet that demand. Thus increasing economic activity further as the money supply increases. The idea that everything can be funded by spending taxes and a low flat rate income tax is absurd. The only way to run an advanced economy with an efficient infrastructure is to run a high tax economy that is based on a progressive income personal and corporate tax system with draconian punishments for individuals and businesses that are found evading taxes or transferring untaxed earnings out of the country. Now I know some are going to call me a communist or loony leftist for saying this. But look around and be honest with yourselves. Where are all these jobs and all this wealth that 40 years of Thatcherism and Reaganomics is supposed to have delivered? Or you can continue to believe giving money to the most wealth is the way forward and continue to watch the numbers sleeping on the street increase as our NHS, our roads, our railways, our education system, our armed forces and every industry continues to decline or be bought up at bargain basement prices by foreigners.
But hey, what do I know. I've probably got it all wrong and we are living in the greatest boom ever and austerity is nothing but a 'vigbox' of my imagination."This. | |||
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"The poor are poor because the rich stole their money is most basic low resolution theory on the populist circuit these days. Overly simplified for overly simple people There is none so simple as yourself. Your knowledge of politics is miniscule, this shows with all that you say. Do you have an argument or just feeling a bit emotional? It is not me who is emotional, i think you should take a good look at yourself as you think that you are right to shout down people who clearly understand politics far more than you do. You have alot to learn about political and economic reality. You are still saying nothing. Point out where I'm wrong. I'm open to learning . " Just about everything you say is wrong and if you are open to learning then maybe you should consider studying politics and economics at the highest level, then you would get a clearer view of things. | |||
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"More empty posting. Tell me where I'm wrong? I study plenty "You obviously don't study the right information as your posts are empty of facts. | |||
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"More empty posting. Tell me where I'm wrong? I study plenty You obviously don't study the right information as your posts are empty of facts."I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. I'll leave you to marinate in your anger if you won't even point out any flawed arguments or engage in any sort of debate. | |||
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" For the purpose of this report, poverty is defined as income of 60 % or less than the average. So not really poor then? They have a income but that income is less than some but more than others. " Less than the average income ffs nt less than Bob but more than Bill so it's ok | |||
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" I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. " The best statement yet! I don't use facts or figures to back my opinion i habe principles?? Say's everything we need to hear | |||
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" I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. The best statement yet! I don't use facts or figures to back my opinion i habe principles?? Say's everything we need to hear "Only small minds get hung up on trying to prove points with single data points. Everything follows from first principles. | |||
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" I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. The best statement yet! I don't use facts or figures to back my opinion i habe principles?? Say's everything we need to hear
Only small minds get hung up on trying to prove points with single data points.
Everything follows from first principles."Unfortunately that's how a debate or discussion works only a small mind could or would over look this huge factor and still have the audascity to enter said discussion armed only with their wondeful insight and a few stock play ground insults. Are you still staring at this mornings OJ because it said concentrate?  | |||
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" I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. The best statement yet! I don't use facts or figures to back my opinion i habe principles?? Say's everything we need to hear
Only small minds get hung up on trying to prove points with single data points.
Everything follows from first principles.
Unfortunately that's how a debate or discussion works only a small mind could or would over look this huge factor and still have the audascity to enter said discussion armed only with their wondeful insight and a few stock play ground insults. Are you still staring at this mornings OJ because it said concentrate? "Can you come back when you have a point to make? | |||
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" I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. The best statement yet! I don't use facts or figures to back my opinion i habe principles?? Say's everything we need to hear
Only small minds get hung up on trying to prove points with single data points.
Everything follows from first principles.
Unfortunately that's how a debate or discussion works only a small mind could or would over look this huge factor and still have the audascity to enter said discussion armed only with their wondeful insight and a few stock play ground insults. Are you still staring at this mornings OJ because it said concentrate?
Can you come back when you have a point to make? "Their's that Govt funded 11 yr old education we've been hearing about hard at work. Could you please enlighten us on your set of core principles that that you believe outweigh facts, figures, and collected data? | |||
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" I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles. The best statement yet! I don't use facts or figures to back my opinion i habe principles?? Say's everything we need to hear
Only small minds get hung up on trying to prove points with single data points.
Everything follows from first principles.
Unfortunately that's how a debate or discussion works only a small mind could or would over look this huge factor and still have the audascity to enter said discussion armed only with their wondeful insight and a few stock play ground insults. Are you still staring at this mornings OJ because it said concentrate?
Can you come back when you have a point to make?
Their's that Govt funded 11 yr old education we've been hearing about hard at work. Could you please enlighten us on your set of core principles that that you believe outweigh facts, figures, and collected data? "You are talking shit. I'm a man of science...theory backed by the data is how you find the truth. Now either engage with me on wherever you think my views are wrong or kindly piss off back to your tabloid socialism for dummies. | |||
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"Does anyone think politicians work from first principles with regard to addressing poverty. It's not a vote winner.Will it get you elected will it fuck.
"It would be so easy 1. How many people are in poverty? 2. How much do they need to get them out of it? Shelter, rehab, councilling whatever 3. Where is money being spent on something less important than basic human needs? 4. Reallocate Problem solved | |||
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" You are talking shit. I'm a man of science...theory backed by the data is how you find the truth. Now either engage with me on wherever you think my views are wrong or kindly piss off back to your tabloid socialism for dummies. " I literally quoted you but it's me talking shit now? Everyone has tried to make sense of your statements and when pushed for further comment or an explaination of your principles outweigh facts patter the reply was "small minds get hung up on facts?" All pf a sudden you are a man of science with theories backed by data? So again please enlighten us with these prociples that were supposed to be full stop in this discussion as your nonsense kinda de-railed an actual debate? | |||
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" You are talking shit. I'm a man of science...theory backed by the data is how you find the truth. Now either engage with me on wherever you think my views are wrong or kindly piss off back to your tabloid socialism for dummies. I literally quoted you but it's me talking shit now? Everyone has tried to make sense of your statements and when pushed for further comment or an explaination of your principles outweigh facts patter the reply was "small minds get hung up on facts?" All pf a sudden you are a man of science with theories backed by data? So again please enlighten us with these prociples that were supposed to be full stop in this discussion as your nonsense kinda de-railed an actual debate? " You didn't quote me...you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. I said I'm not hung up on data not that I ignore it. I'm not going to enlighten you with anything. Until you have something you want to debate you are just a sad troll. I think you know i'd rip you a metaphorical new one if you tried anyway...your points are so clichéd and basic
You should "seek first to understand" when you are talking with someone.
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"Does anyone think politicians work from first principles with regard to addressing poverty. It's not a vote winner.Will it get you elected will it fuck.
It would be so easy
1. How many people are in poverty?
2. How much do they need to get them out of it? Shelter, rehab, councilling whatever
3. Where is money being spent on something less important than basic human needs?
4. Reallocate
Problem solved "So simple yet ..... | |||
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"Does anyone think politicians work from first principles with regard to addressing poverty. It's not a vote winner.Will it get you elected will it fuck.
It would be so easy
1. How many people are in poverty?
2. How much do they need to get them out of it? Shelter, rehab, councilling whatever
3. Where is money being spent on something less important than basic human needs?
4. Reallocate
Problem solved
So simple yet ..... "We are dealing with politicians and the idiots who vote for them. | |||
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" You didn't quote me...you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. I said I'm not hung up on data not that I ignore it. I'm not going to enlighten you with anything. Until you have something you want to debate you are just a sad troll. I think you know i'd rip you a metaphorical new one if you tried anyway...your points are so clichéd and basic
You should "seek first to understand" when you are talking with someone.
"i posted the whole quote then my reply actually another person posted stating the cycle of sustainable poverty has since the 70's dramatically increased within europian countries and that tax cuts, austerity, and misuse and lack of Govt funding played a massive part in this. You shot down and continued to "Troll" the poster you were asked for facts or even an explaination and your reply was and i qoute " Only simple minds rely on single data points" your a hypocryte and completely full of shit. With not much usefull to say | |||
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" You didn't quote me...you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. I said I'm not hung up on data not that I ignore it. I'm not going to enlighten you with anything. Until you have something you want to debate you are just a sad troll. I think you know i'd rip you a metaphorical new one if you tried anyway...your points are so clichéd and basic
You should "seek first to understand" when you are talking with someone.
i posted the whole quote then my reply actually another person posted stating the cycle of sustainable poverty has since the 70's dramatically increased within europian countries and that tax cuts, austerity, and misuse and lack of Govt funding played a massive part in this. You shot down and continued to "Troll" the poster you were asked for facts or even an explaination and your reply was and i qoute " Only simple minds rely on single data points" your a hypocryte and completely full of shit. With not much usefull to say"Correlation is not causation
I'd love to see data that shows that poverty has increased across all of Europe since the 70's
Are you dressed in tin foil? | |||
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" You didn't quote me...you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. I said I'm not hung up on data not that I ignore it. I'm not going to enlighten you with anything. Until you have something you want to debate you are just a sad troll. I think you know i'd rip you a metaphorical new one if you tried anyway...your points are so clichéd and basic
You should "seek first to understand" when you are talking with someone.
i posted the whole quote then my reply actually another person posted stating the cycle of sustainable poverty has since the 70's dramatically increased within europian countries and that tax cuts, austerity, and misuse and lack of Govt funding played a massive part in this. You shot down and continued to "Troll" the poster you were asked for facts or even an explaination and your reply was and i qoute " Only simple minds rely on single data points" your a hypocryte and completely full of shit. With not much usefull to say
Correlation is not causation
I'd love to see data that shows that poverty has increased across all of Europe since the 70's
Are you dressed in tin foil?"You quoted the post and still didn't manage to read it :/ as per type cast someone because its easier to attack the group rather than the indivudual apparently half the folk that post on here are either loony leftists or racist right wing nut jobs? Where's the middle ground? Where someone can have a conservative stance on some subjects and liberal on others. Every discussions decends in to empty facts and insults when one side gets tiref of banging their head against a wall all of a sudden the racist bigots vs snowflake patter comes flooding out and nothing gets discussed as usual. | |||
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" You didn't quote me...you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. I said I'm not hung up on data not that I ignore it. I'm not going to enlighten you with anything. Until you have something you want to debate you are just a sad troll. I think you know i'd rip you a metaphorical new one if you tried anyway...your points are so clichéd and basic
You should "seek first to understand" when you are talking with someone.
i posted the whole quote then my reply actually another person posted stating the cycle of sustainable poverty has since the 70's dramatically increased within europian countries and that tax cuts, austerity, and misuse and lack of Govt funding played a massive part in this. You shot down and continued to "Troll" the poster you were asked for facts or even an explaination and your reply was and i qoute " Only simple minds rely on single data points" your a hypocryte and completely full of shit. With not much usefull to say
Correlation is not causation
I'd love to see data that shows that poverty has increased across all of Europe since the 70's
Are you dressed in tin foil?
You quoted the post and still didn't manage to read it :/
as per type cast someone because its easier to attack the group rather than the indivudual apparently half the folk that post on here are either loony leftists or racist right wing nut jobs? Where's the middle ground? Where someone can have a conservative stance on some subjects and liberal on others. Every discussions decends in to empty facts and insults when one side gets tiref of banging their head against a wall all of a sudden the racist bigots vs snowflake patter comes flooding out and nothing gets discussed as usual. "Well you are describing my opinions. All the mad fringe stuff is hard left or right. But come on Mr data .. show us all about the poverty rising since the 70s. | |||
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" Well you are describing my opinions. All the mad fringe stuff is hard left or right. But come on Mr data .. show us all about the poverty rising since the 70s. " So why do you use this as the basis of your arguement? If i disagree i'm a dumb socialist or "the poor blaming the rich for taking their money is the lowest form of arguement in the current socialist circuit" these aren't credible statements either and definately don't help in the progression of a debate. The gap in earnings between the top 10% and the bottom 90% has massively increased from the 1970's till now was my original point. The figures are easy enough to find with a quick google search. Can i get fitted for my tin foil tuxedo now please? | |||
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" Well you are describing my opinions. All the mad fringe stuff is hard left or right. But come on Mr data .. show us all about the poverty rising since the 70s. So why do you use this as the basis of your arguement? If i disagree i'm a dumb socialist or "the poor blaming the rich for taking their money is the lowest form of arguement in the current socialist circuit" these aren't credible statements either and definately don't help in the progression of a debate. The gap in earnings between the top 10% and the bottom 90% has massively increased from the 1970's till now was my original point. The figures are easy enough to find with a quick google search. Can i get fitted for my tin foil tuxedo now please? "Ok but what is the mechanism for that? The poor are poor because the rich are rich is basic as fuck. I still want to see your data..... | |||
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" Well you are describing my opinions. All the mad fringe stuff is hard left or right. But come on Mr data .. show us all about the poverty rising since the 70s. So why do you use this as the basis of your arguement? If i disagree i'm a dumb socialist or "the poor blaming the rich for taking their money is the lowest form of arguement in the current socialist circuit" these aren't credible statements either and definately don't help in the progression of a debate. The gap in earnings between the top 10% and the bottom 90% has massively increased from the 1970's till now was my original point. The figures are easy enough to find with a quick google search. Can i get fitted for my tin foil tuxedo now please?
Ok but what is the mechanism for that?
The poor are poor because the rich are rich is basic as fuck.
I still want to see your data....."The poor are poor etc isn't my arguement here and your right enough is a basic and biased way of looking at things. Your looking for me to give a socialist point of view here and an easy solution which unfortunately i don't have and thankfully neither do you. The distribution of wealth within our society is the problem here it's easier for the average househould to fall into debt than pull themselves out of it nowadays. As mentioned before the level of education for most when it comes to their finances is minimal at best this has only gotten worse in recent years and has had a huge negative impact on our economy. For some trapped in the benifit system as silly as it might sound can't afford to work especially with more zero hour contracts on the rise some can't afford to pay for housing even with Govt assistance, most private landlords wouldn't rent to people on benifits either stopping these people from accessing safer affordable accomodation putting people into the local councils temporary accomodation at a cost of £150 pw for a basic one bedroom apartment sometimes for families of up to 3/4 people pushing them further into debt now with their local council. This cycle spirals out of control to the eventuality that these people are homeless again now without being eligable for Govt assistance. | |||
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I still can't fathom why you are so so incensed by my opinions? | |||
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"Universal Credit has been and is a disaster. It will no doubt be saving money for the government, but vulnerable people are being thrown under the bus. There has probably already been deaths because of it, and more will follow." | |||
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"You are learning
I still can't fathom why you are so so incensed by my opinions?"Here's hoping you learn something on this thread there could still be hope for humanity
Exactly that their's no place for opinions in politics especially silly ones devoid of sense and reason. | |||
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"You are learning
I still can't fathom why you are so so incensed by my opinions?
Here's hoping you learn something on this thread there could still be hope for humanity
Exactly that their's no place for opinions in politics especially silly ones devoid of sense and reason."You are talking in riddles | |||
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"Come on that's ridiculous let's say the average rent for a 2-bed property is between £350-450pcm but homeless accomodation is £600pcm the average housing benifit for an over 25 is £270 with a regular UC payment of £320 combined that still wouldn't cover your rent before council tax, gas, electric, or food? Now think about a family/persons still.in employment without that Govt assistance renting a 2-bed flat for £600 pcm on top of everything else? So the choice of accumulating debt vs Govt assistance becomes very real for most. The fact that working to pay rent would put you in almost twice as much debt as the latter is just ridiculous." I've no idea what you are saying or what your point is? Most people who have jobs earn enough to pay their bills I don't want to debate the small details of a welfare scheme I know nothing about. I don't enough know what what we are talking about, I was originally calling out the simple populist view that the rich steal from the poor is wrong and that seemed to piss you off. Principles principles principles | |||
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"It's not rocket science, if I was unemployed that would give me 40+ hrs a week to look for work or do some sort of training. Anyway I'm not saying that anyone's circumstances are their own fault but I am trying to temper the hopeless victim view with some realism - despite the conspiracy theory narrative of state sponsored oppression - it's a (relatively) free world and everyone has options. " You really need to look into the current welfare system. Again you've generalised and put everyone in the same position here not everyone is a single guy with 40+hrs a week free. Their are plenty of people out of work for many different reasons some of them probably more qaulified than either of us but without the same resources or opportunities available to them. It's not a conspiracy to think that the Govt would keep poorer areas of the country in poverty using a corrupt and totally biased welfare system. | |||
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"It's not rocket science, if I was unemployed that would give me 40+ hrs a week to look for work or do some sort of training. Anyway I'm not saying that anyone's circumstances are their own fault but I am trying to temper the hopeless victim view with some realism - despite the conspiracy theory narrative of state sponsored oppression - it's a (relatively) free world and everyone has options. You really need to look into the current welfare system. Again you've generalised and put everyone in the same position here not everyone is a single guy with 40+hrs a week free. Their are plenty of people out of work for many different reasons some of them probably more qaulified than either of us but without the same resources or opportunities available to them. It's not a conspiracy to think that the Govt would keep poorer areas of the country in poverty using a corrupt and totally biased welfare system." You're a lost cause. There's a difference between intent and consequence. | |||
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"Each time you reply you've back peddled and told me the complete opposite of what you've just posted and i'm the lost cause????" You're just not that capable of nuance | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years..." Exactly but thats come from a conservative government which just reinforces the point that there are way too many managers tinkering with complex systems in order to reduce the number of people eligible to claim and simplify the process so that eventually human interaction will not be required. Lots of people will be plunged into abject poverty with no chance of escaping from it, crime will increase, suicide and depression will grow as will anger and violence and drug use. Then the nhs, police and quite possibly the army will be called upon to try and control it with no extra funding, and thats before you take into account the ageing population who cannot afford the care they are going to need. So who ultimately benefits? Humans are complicated and they only fit in the one size box when they are dead. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years..." But you're in favour of Tory policies and think Labour led by JC are communists who need to be crushed... Are you about to become unemployed and working out that its now your turn to become part of the underclass you have spent so much time denigrating and calling scroungers? | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years..." Welcome to the reality of tory Britain, heartless policies, cuts to the services that effect by and large the ordinary man and woman and hitting the most needy in society.. that have funded tax cuts to the very rich and those who have lied to the same people that all will be solved if only we leave the EU.. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... But you're in favour of Tory policies and think Labour led by JC are communists who need to be crushed... Are you about to become unemployed and working out that its now your turn to become part of the underclass you have spent so much time denigrating and calling scroungers? " You are getting me mixed up with someone else, as I am not a bloody Tory and never have been. I’m not about to become unemployed either. YES I do want to get out of the EU, but that doesn’t make me a Tory, I couldn’t possibly support Labour either, especially under its current “leader.” Also I have never denigrated unemployed people or called them scrounges either. I don’t remember reading anyone else’s posts making such references either... | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... But you're in favour of Tory policies and think Labour led by JC are communists who need to be crushed... Are you about to become unemployed and working out that its now your turn to become part of the underclass you have spent so much time denigrating and calling scroungers? You are getting me mixed up with someone else, as I am not a bloody Tory and never have been. I’m not about to become unemployed either. YES I do want to get out of the EU, but that doesn’t make me a Tory, I couldn’t possibly support Labour either, especially under its current “leader.” Also I have never denigrated unemployed people or called them scrounges either. I don’t remember reading anyone else’s posts making such references either..." There was someone else who was saying that poor people are scum. The poster from the Wirral I think. The one who said they would spit on every single remain voter. I can’t remember their username. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... Welcome to the reality of tory Britain, heartless policies, cuts to the services that effect by and large the ordinary man and woman and hitting the most needy in society.. that have funded tax cuts to the very rich and those who have lied to the same people that all will be solved if only we leave the EU.. " I’m 52 years old, I know how it works, but don’t believe it is just the Tories who are out to screw the working class. We have had over 50 years of phony governments who never kept all the promises they made during their election campaigns. Cameron did, just once, then did a bloody runner. Corbyn swore that he would respect the referendum result if Labour were elected, they weren’t but he has already abandoned that policy. None of them can be trusted, remember the expenses scandles? They were all bloody at it! YES we do need to get out of the EU, completely out. But that is not all we need to do. A devolved Parliament for England, election reform involving the scrapping of fptp and the introduction of proportional representation. That way everyone will get a voice, including minority politicians. Well that would be a start! | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... But you're in favour of Tory policies and think Labour led by JC are communists who need to be crushed... Are you about to become unemployed and working out that its now your turn to become part of the underclass you have spent so much time denigrating and calling scroungers? You are getting me mixed up with someone else, as I am not a bloody Tory and never have been. I’m not about to become unemployed either. YES I do want to get out of the EU, but that doesn’t make me a Tory, I couldn’t possibly support Labour either, especially under its current “leader.” Also I have never denigrated unemployed people or called them scrounges either. I don’t remember reading anyone else’s posts making such references either... There was someone else who was saying that poor people are scum. The poster from the Wirral I think. The one who said they would spit on every single remain voter. I can’t remember their username. " I’m on the South Coast, never been to the Wirral in my life. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... But you're in favour of Tory policies and think Labour led by JC are communists who need to be crushed... Are you about to become unemployed and working out that its now your turn to become part of the underclass you have spent so much time denigrating and calling scroungers? You are getting me mixed up with someone else, as I am not a bloody Tory and never have been. I’m not about to become unemployed either. YES I do want to get out of the EU, but that doesn’t make me a Tory, I couldn’t possibly support Labour either, especially under its current “leader.” Also I have never denigrated unemployed people or called them scrounges either. I don’t remember reading anyone else’s posts making such references either... There was someone else who was saying that poor people are scum. The poster from the Wirral I think. The one who said they would spit on every single remain voter. I can’t remember their username. I’m on the South Coast, never been to the Wirral in my life." Yeah that’s what I’m saying. It wasn’t you. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... Welcome to the reality of tory Britain, heartless policies, cuts to the services that effect by and large the ordinary man and woman and hitting the most needy in society.. that have funded tax cuts to the very rich and those who have lied to the same people that all will be solved if only we leave the EU.. I’m 52 years old, I know how it works, but don’t believe it is just the Tories who are out to screw the working class. We have had over 50 years of phony governments who never kept all the promises they made during their election campaigns. Cameron did, just once, then did a bloody runner. Corbyn swore that he would respect the referendum result if Labour were elected, they weren’t but he has already abandoned that policy. None of them can be trusted, remember the expenses scandles? They were all bloody at it! YES we do need to get out of the EU, completely out. But that is not all we need to do. A devolved Parliament for England, election reform involving the scrapping of fptp and the introduction of proportional representation. That way everyone will get a voice, including minority politicians. Well that would be a start!" Your original points are the policy decisions of the current tory government, nothing to do with the referendum of 2016 but the irony is that the things you rightly highlight are the tip of the iceberg if the Erg and far right tear up and shred the current protections that workers have under the eu.. There are those who want them gone and the dark days to return when workers had to doff their caps lest they upset the owners.. | |||
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"More empty posting. Tell me where I'm wrong? I study plenty You obviously don't study the right information as your posts are empty of facts.
I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles.
I'll leave you to marinate in your anger if you won't even point out any flawed arguments or engage in any sort of debate. "The reason you don't get caught up in facts is because you don't know any, you seem to be incapable of processing such information. As for pointing out your flawed arguments where does one begin, everything you have ever posted on here is flawed and totally detached from factual reality. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... Welcome to the reality of tory Britain, heartless policies, cuts to the services that effect by and large the ordinary man and woman and hitting the most needy in society.. that have funded tax cuts to the very rich and those who have lied to the same people that all will be solved if only we leave the EU.. I’m 52 years old, I know how it works, but don’t believe it is just the Tories who are out to screw the working class. We have had over 50 years of phony governments who never kept all the promises they made during their election campaigns. Cameron did, just once, then did a bloody runner. Corbyn swore that he would respect the referendum result if Labour were elected, they weren’t but he has already abandoned that policy. None of them can be trusted, remember the expenses scandles? They were all bloody at it! YES we do need to get out of the EU, completely out. But that is not all we need to do. A devolved Parliament for England, election reform involving the scrapping of fptp and the introduction of proportional representation. That way everyone will get a voice, including minority politicians. Well that would be a start! Your original points are the policy decisions of the current tory government, nothing to do with the referendum of 2016 but the irony is that the things you rightly highlight are the tip of the iceberg if the Erg and far right tear up and shred the current protections that workers have under the eu.. There are those who want them gone and the dark days to return when workers had to doff their caps lest they upset the owners.. " The ERG aren't the Government. The Government has never said that it wants to "water down" employment legislation. | |||
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"The sign in the Job Centre said “Better off working.” It lied, Universal Credit is total shit, and people are trapped in low payed jobs, because leaving deliberately or getting fired for misconduct gets you banned from claiming, and the ban could be for as long as three years... Welcome to the reality of tory Britain, heartless policies, cuts to the services that effect by and large the ordinary man and woman and hitting the most needy in society.. that have funded tax cuts to the very rich and those who have lied to the same people that all will be solved if only we leave the EU.. I’m 52 years old, I know how it works, but don’t believe it is just the Tories who are out to screw the working class. We have had over 50 years of phony governments who never kept all the promises they made during their election campaigns. Cameron did, just once, then did a bloody runner. Corbyn swore that he would respect the referendum result if Labour were elected, they weren’t but he has already abandoned that policy. None of them can be trusted, remember the expenses scandles? They were all bloody at it! YES we do need to get out of the EU, completely out. But that is not all we need to do. A devolved Parliament for England, election reform involving the scrapping of fptp and the introduction of proportional representation. That way everyone will get a voice, including minority politicians. Well that would be a start! Your original points are the policy decisions of the current tory government, nothing to do with the referendum of 2016 but the irony is that the things you rightly highlight are the tip of the iceberg if the Erg and far right tear up and shred the current protections that workers have under the eu.. There are those who want them gone and the dark days to return when workers had to doff their caps lest they upset the owners.. The ERG aren't the Government. The Government has never said that it wants to "water down" employment legislation." agreed on the first point but if the likes of mogg or boris get someone else of their ilk in power the latter point may well change.. whether that will happen who knows, i would have said a couple of years ago that they would not have influence on policies and the direction of travel of the UK but now? who knows what may happen.. | |||
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"More empty posting. Tell me where I'm wrong? I study plenty You obviously don't study the right information as your posts are empty of facts.
I don't get caught up in facts as much as other posters here because that turns into a rabbit hole of debating sources and interpretation....I work from principles.
I'll leave you to marinate in your anger if you won't even point out any flawed arguments or engage in any sort of debate. The reason you don't get caught up in facts is because you don't know any, you seem to be incapable of processing such information. As for pointing out your flawed arguments where does one begin, everything you have ever posted on here is flawed and totally detached from factual reality."More hot air | |||
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"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough?" Apparently in France in 2017 there were 9,000,000 people living in poverty..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"According to a leading charity (JFR) - [think chocolate] that in the last 5yrs - despite unemployment falling to record lows - poverty is rising faster! Another 500,000 pushed into poverty. Could it be something to do with the 1.8m zero hours contracts? Or is it as centaur would say all the bloody foreigners? Or is it the elites exploiting the poor man (Tory, Labour & Liberals ) and raking it in? 30% of children living in poverty - in the 5th largest economy in the world! Is that something that needs fixing or just tough? Apparently in France in 2017 there were 9,000,000 people living in poverty....." Apparently in the USA there are 43,100,000 living in poverty.... | |||
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