FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > So much for European unity, Lol!
So much for European unity, Lol!
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " Spain only wants clarity on the proposal text that any negotiations on the future of Gibraltar are only between Spain & the UK. but you knew that Centy but you thought it would make a good anti EU thread. The unfortunate fact is there has been EU unity for the last 2 years regarding BREXIT but so called brexiteers here & the UK government have had none what so ever. I'd say "nice try" but it was a total failure to be honest. | |||
"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed. "I didn't know the Ukraine was a EU member, how did I not know that I wonder, ohh & I guess the EU 's fucked up with Syria too | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Spain only wants clarity on the proposal text that any negotiations on the future of Gibraltar are only between Spain & the UK. but you knew that Centy but you thought it would make a good anti EU thread. The unfortunate fact is there has been EU unity for the last 2 years regarding BREXIT but so called brexiteers here & the UK government have had none what so ever. I'd say "nice try" but it was a total failure to be honest." And the French with the argument over the fishing 12 mile limit ? I did read they were kicking off about it but no matter I am sure the uk will be more than happy to export fish to France at a fair price  | |||
"Each individual country retains its power, so that the EU agreements are only completed once all states actually agree. Did the UK forget that the timeline for Article 50 was 2 years, meaning that all other countries and the UK would be better to conclude their negotiations a little sooner? The Conservatives should have agreed amongst themselves certain obvious high priority points, such as Irish border etc, before issuing Article 50. " Has Spain forgotten that the timeline for article 50 was 2 years? Maybe France has too now they're kicking up a fuss about fishing rights in the deal. Maybe the EU 27 should have concluded their internal negotiations with each other a little sooner. The EU should have agreed amongst themselves certain high priority points, such as Gibraltar and fishing rights, before letting Barnier do a press conference with Donald Tusk saying the Withdrawal text was agreed. | |||
"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
I didn't know the Ukraine was a EU member, how did I not know that I wonder, ohh & I guess the EU 's fucked up with Syria too
"Splitting hairs really aren't you? Pretty embarrassing really. Ukraine is in Europe. The claim that the European Union has kept the peace and maintained stability on the continent is just that. Regardless of if Ukraine is a member state or not. Also I love how you've side stepped the other part regarding member states not accepting refugee numbers. United Europe, Europe is United.  | |||
"Raaahhhhh!" Highly thoughtful post from you as usual then Ray.  | |||
"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed. "It really was despicable how the EU destabilised Ukraine, encouraging a coup against a democratically elected government there. Trying to tempt Ukraine to join the EU was a deliberate provocation against Russia. The EU has a lot to answer for, for the conflict that happened there. | |||
"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
I didn't know the Ukraine was a EU member, how did I not know that I wonder, ohh & I guess the EU 's fucked up with Syria too
Splitting hairs really aren't you? Pretty embarrassing really. Ukraine is in Europe. The claim that the European Union has kept the peace and maintained stability on the continent is just that. Regardless of if Ukraine is a member state or not.
Also I love how you've side stepped the other part regarding member states not accepting refugee numbers.
United Europe, Europe is United. "Not at all, the EU is the EU, not Europe, 2 very different things but if it suits your argument to class them as the same then crack on  | |||
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"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
I didn't know the Ukraine was a EU member, how did I not know that I wonder, ohh & I guess the EU 's fucked up with Syria too
Splitting hairs really aren't you? Pretty embarrassing really. Ukraine is in Europe. The claim that the European Union has kept the peace and maintained stability on the continent is just that. Regardless of if Ukraine is a member state or not.
Also I love how you've side stepped the other part regarding member states not accepting refugee numbers.
United Europe, Europe is United. "The refugee issue is bad, but if the EU had imposed upon us to take hundreds / thousands then you'd of been up in arms about that. Other than machine gunning them all down I don't know what was best to help them, do you ? Obviously no one really knew what to do with the flood of refugees But if you want to class that as major crash in unity then again, crack on | |||
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"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
It really was despicable how the EU destabilised Ukraine, encouraging a coup against a democratically elected government there. Trying to tempt Ukraine to join the EU was a deliberate provocation against Russia. The EU has a lot to answer for, for the conflict that happened there. "From the little I know about Ukraine, I do agree Centaur | |||
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"Each individual country retains its power, so that the EU agreements are only completed once all states actually agree. Did the UK forget that the timeline for Article 50 was 2 years, meaning that all other countries and the UK would be better to conclude their negotiations a little sooner? The Conservatives should have agreed amongst themselves certain obvious high priority points, such as Irish border etc, before issuing Article 50. Has Spain forgotten that the timeline for article 50 was 2 years? Maybe France has too now they're kicking up a fuss about fishing rights in the deal. Maybe the EU 27 should have concluded their internal negotiations with each other a little sooner. The EU should have agreed amongst themselves certain high priority points, such as Gibraltar and fishing rights, before letting Barnier do a press conference with Donald Tusk saying the Withdrawal text was agreed." The UK has been delaying - without any need, should the UK government have not been full of a meting pot of extremists and got its position straight before triggering Article 50. In the meantime, sovereign states are free to discuss whatever they wish to. | |||
"Each individual country retains its power, so that the EU agreements are only completed once all states actually agree. Did the UK forget that the timeline for Article 50 was 2 years, meaning that all other countries and the UK would be better to conclude their negotiations a little sooner? The Conservatives should have agreed amongst themselves certain obvious high priority points, such as Irish border etc, before issuing Article 50. Has Spain forgotten that the timeline for article 50 was 2 years? Maybe France has too now they're kicking up a fuss about fishing rights in the deal. Maybe the EU 27 should have concluded their internal negotiations with each other a little sooner. The EU should have agreed amongst themselves certain high priority points, such as Gibraltar and fishing rights, before letting Barnier do a press conference with Donald Tusk saying the Withdrawal text was agreed. The UK has been delaying - without any need, should the UK government have not been full of a meting pot of extremists and got its position straight before triggering Article 50. In the meantime, sovereign states are free to discuss whatever they wish to. " Ah, so the EU are free to discuss whatever they wish to, but the UK isn't allowed.  | |||
"Each individual country retains its power, so that the EU agreements are only completed once all states actually agree. Did the UK forget that the timeline for Article 50 was 2 years, meaning that all other countries and the UK would be better to conclude their negotiations a little sooner? The Conservatives should have agreed amongst themselves certain obvious high priority points, such as Irish border etc, before issuing Article 50. Has Spain forgotten that the timeline for article 50 was 2 years? Maybe France has too now they're kicking up a fuss about fishing rights in the deal. Maybe the EU 27 should have concluded their internal negotiations with each other a little sooner. The EU should have agreed amongst themselves certain high priority points, such as Gibraltar and fishing rights, before letting Barnier do a press conference with Donald Tusk saying the Withdrawal text was agreed. The UK has been delaying - without any need, should the UK government have not been full of a meting pot of extremists and got its position straight before triggering Article 50. In the meantime, sovereign states are free to discuss whatever they wish to. Ah, so the EU are free to discuss whatever they wish to, but the UK isn't allowed. "The UK was allowed to, we just didn’t have anyone capable of having any opinions, let alone actually debating them and taking a grown up position to the EU - ffs, 2 years and all we have is this!?  | |||
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"It sounds like... Spain wants clarity of text, some in the UK want to start negotiations from the start again, quite a difference." plus remember this agreement is only up to dec 2020.... it does not look at any arrangements beyond then.... so what uk fishermen have to take into consideration is that they may get their quota;'s back... but the EU would be well within their rights to charge WTO tariffs on it.... the fishermen want the quota's without the penalty of the tariffs... because thats what the leave campaign and farage promised them .... and as per usual they were sold a lie they have been trying to backtrack on!!! so bearing in mind 80% of fish caught by uk fishermen is then sold to EU countries.... its weighing up one against the other....... | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " Wait.... sorry... have I got this right? Is Centy complaining that individual countries in the EU have sovereignty and control over decisions they make? And that there is a democratic process by which they participate and each vote on something? Well.... I never. -Matt | |||
"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
It really was despicable how the EU destabilised Ukraine, encouraging a coup against a democratically elected government there. Trying to tempt Ukraine to join the EU was a deliberate provocation against Russia. The EU has a lot to answer for, for the conflict that happened there. "the thing that tipped Ukraine over the edge wasn't them wanting to join the EU, it was them wanting to join NATO! | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " OMG Centy, you really don't understand what is happening at all (even though you (we) were told what the EU's bottom line was 2 years ago. Let me remind you that after we voted to leave the EU told us that the EU position was that if any remaining member had an issue with us the other EU states would back them (that's why the ROI has had a veto on any agreement and we have been forced to back down at every point on the ROI/NI border and regulatory alignment issue. Now that that is sorted(ish) it's Spain's turn and they did say that they would require a settlement acceptable to them or they would block any deal 2 years ago. Now you can crow as Spain now turns the screw on us claiming that there is no EU unity, but I expect you will be seeing Mr Barnier now shrugging and saying 'whats your proposal Mrs May/UK?' Just to be clear this is what happens when anyone other than the USA or China try to push around the largest trading block (and single market economy) in the world. And let me remind you now that last year the maybot and BoJo were too busy to have the FO arrange visas for a Moldavian trade delegation and that at the time the Moldavian president said that he would make the UK pay for that insult. Now Moldova are blocking (as is their right) all attempts for the UK to vary our WTO schedule just like Spain are now beginning to turn the screw on us. The it will be the turn of the French over fishing rights. And we are the ones who will have no choice but to back down (yet again). Of course we can always decide to crash out with no deal and refuse to pay the divorce bill. Then the EU can withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft and medicines and enforce full border controls and cause this country to grind to a halt in a matter of days. I wonder if you will be crowing if we end up going down that path Centy? | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! OMG Centy, you really don't understand what is happening at all (even though you (we) were told what the EU's bottom line was 2 years ago. Let me remind you that after we voted to leave the EU told us that the EU position was that if any remaining member had an issue with us the other EU states would back them (that's why the ROI has had a veto on any agreement and we have been forced to back down at every point on the ROI/NI border and regulatory alignment issue. Now that that is sorted(ish) it's Spain's turn and they did say that they would require a settlement acceptable to them or they would block any deal 2 years ago. Now you can crow as Spain now turns the screw on us claiming that there is no EU unity, but I expect you will be seeing Mr Barnier now shrugging and saying 'whats your proposal Mrs May/UK?' Just to be clear this is what happens when anyone other than the USA or China try to push around the largest trading block (and single market economy) in the world. And let me remind you now that last year the maybot and BoJo were too busy to have the FO arrange visas for a Moldavian trade delegation and that at the time the Moldavian president said that he would make the UK pay for that insult. Now Moldova are blocking (as is their right) all attempts for the UK to vary our WTO schedule just like Spain are now beginning to turn the screw on us. The it will be the turn of the French over fishing rights. And we are the ones who will have no choice but to back down (yet again). Of course we can always decide to crash out with no deal and refuse to pay the divorce bill. Then the EU can withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft and medicines and enforce full border controls and cause this country to grind to a halt in a matter of days. I wonder if you will be crowing if we end up going down that path Centy?" We've not been 'forced' to back down will, Theresa May has just demonstrated that she has no backbone, she is spineless and doesn't know what a red line means. She's a remainer and she's not up to the job. If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. The EU is not the only place we can purchase medicines and food from either we're an island nation and are perfectly placed to ship in medicine, food and other goods from Canada, USA and South America. | |||
" If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. " I would hazard a guess it would be easier for EU carriers to fly around UK Airspace than it would be for UK carriers to fly around EU Airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the UK fly's through EU Airspace. How long would our Airlines last ? | |||
"We've not been 'forced' to back down will, Theresa May has just demonstrated that she has no backbone, she is spineless and doesn't know what a red line means. She's a remainer and she's not up to the job. If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. The EU is not the only place we can purchase medicines and food from either we're an island nation and are perfectly placed to ship in medicine, food and other goods from Canada, USA and South America. " Just 2 points Centy: Firstly you just keep telling yourself that it is not us backing down, it is just the maybot is spineless. Secondly, if you bother to take a look at the UK's and the EU's airspace on a map you will notice that although there are 2 paths to international airspace open to the UK, one northen rout to the west/northwest and one southwestern route to the west. There are no routes open to any other points of the compass. And although blocking our airspace to the EU would not be an inconvenience for most EU carriers on transatlantic routes (most use the great circle over Greenland) and don't need to overfly our airspace. The EU blocking our carriers use of EU airspace would destroy virtually all non transatlantic air travel from the UK. Its a question of size and just like the EU's economic size and therefore clout their airspace has a similar overwhelming size advantage if we are stupid enough to fight them. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history." It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " Keep dreaming. Meanwhile, in the real world, even the ERG arent united, let alone the government, let alone parliament. The EU are united enough to get their way or to ensure we get royally screwed. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? " Your vision of leave isn't echoed by anyone except the daft and the dangerous. True brexiteer my arse | |||
"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
It really was despicable how the EU destabilised Ukraine, encouraging a coup against a democratically elected government there. Trying to tempt Ukraine to join the EU was a deliberate provocation against Russia. The EU has a lot to answer for, for the conflict that happened there.
From the little I know about Ukraine, I do agree Centaur"From the little more I know about Ukraine, not really true although true to say a major miscalculation of Russia and Putin by the Western Alliance including EU, US and NATO governments. Thread for another day maybe. | |||
"Each individual country retains its power, so that the EU agreements are only completed once all states actually agree. Did the UK forget that the timeline for Article 50 was 2 years, meaning that all other countries and the UK would be better to conclude their negotiations a little sooner? The Conservatives should have agreed amongst themselves certain obvious high priority points, such as Irish border etc, before issuing Article 50. Has Spain forgotten that the timeline for article 50 was 2 years? Maybe France has too now they're kicking up a fuss about fishing rights in the deal. Maybe the EU 27 should have concluded their internal negotiations with each other a little sooner. The EU should have agreed amongst themselves certain high priority points, such as Gibraltar and fishing rights, before letting Barnier do a press conference with Donald Tusk saying the Withdrawal text was agreed. The UK has been delaying - without any need, should the UK government have not been full of a meting pot of extremists and got its position straight before triggering Article 50. In the meantime, sovereign states are free to discuss whatever they wish to. Ah, so the EU are free to discuss whatever they wish to, but the UK isn't allowed. "Both sides are free to discuss whatever they wish but, in essence, the deal is, and will be, what it is now. There will be no changes of any real significance either way. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? " It didn't say "leave, no deal, leave" on my ballot paper. But what you forget is that leading members of the Leave campaign said that the day after we vote leave we will be able to negotiate a better trade deal with the EU than the one we have now, because we would hold all the cards. Negotiating a new trade deal with the EU was a commitment made by the Leave campaign so a BREXIT that does not include a new, better trade deal with the EU is not a BREXIT that satisfies referendum mandate nor one that reflects the 'will of the people' expressed in the referendum. BREXITERS can not keep on going back on the commitments made by the Leave campaign and still try to claim that they're fulfilling 'the will of the people'. There is not, and never was, a mandate for a 'no deal' BREXIT. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? Your vision of leave isn't echoed by anyone except the daft and the dangerous. True brexiteer my arse" Not does it in anyway resemble the leave committed to by the Leave campaign, which said we would negotiate a new trade deal with the EU before we left. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " You do know the difference between the withdrawal bill and the joint political declaration on future relations don't you?, You do realise they're two completely separate pieces of legislation don't you? How silly of me of course you do | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? " Dodge, deceive, ignore, lie. You are, at least, consistent | |||
" It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? " Oh, I can visualise your position perfectly, After shooting ourselves in one foot two years ago, we are now pointing the gun at our other foot and telling the EU we'll fire if they don't give us what they want. | |||
"Each individual country retains its power, so that the EU agreements are only completed once all states actually agree. Did the UK forget that the timeline for Article 50 was 2 years, meaning that all other countries and the UK would be better to conclude their negotiations a little sooner? The Conservatives should have agreed amongst themselves certain obvious high priority points, such as Irish border etc, before issuing Article 50. Has Spain forgotten that the timeline for article 50 was 2 years? Maybe France has too now they're kicking up a fuss about fishing rights in the deal. Maybe the EU 27 should have concluded their internal negotiations with each other a little sooner. The EU should have agreed amongst themselves certain high priority points, such as Gibraltar and fishing rights, before letting Barnier do a press conference with Donald Tusk saying the Withdrawal text was agreed."  | |||
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"It sounds like... Spain wants clarity of text, some in the UK want to start negotiations from the start again, quite a difference. plus remember this agreement is only up to dec 2020.... it does not look at any arrangements beyond then.... so what uk fishermen have to take into consideration is that they may get their quota;'s back... but the EU would be well within their rights to charge WTO tariffs on it.... the fishermen want the quota's without the penalty of the tariffs... because thats what the leave campaign and farage promised them .... and as per usual they were sold a lie they have been trying to backtrack on!!! so bearing in mind 80% of fish caught by uk fishermen is then sold to EU countries.... its weighing up one against the other....... " It's not only up to Dec 2020 though. Even if the date (as yet only written as 20XX in the agreement), is finally put in as 2020, parts of it go way beyond that. | |||
" If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. I would hazard a guess it would be easier for EU carriers to fly around UK Airspace than it would be for UK carriers to fly around EU Airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the UK fly's through EU Airspace. How long would our Airlines last ? " How long would Ireland last? | |||
"We've not been 'forced' to back down will, Theresa May has just demonstrated that she has no backbone, she is spineless and doesn't know what a red line means. She's a remainer and she's not up to the job. If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. The EU is not the only place we can purchase medicines and food from either we're an island nation and are perfectly placed to ship in medicine, food and other goods from Canada, USA and South America. Just 2 points Centy: Firstly you just keep telling yourself that it is not us backing down, it is just the maybot is spineless. Secondly, if you bother to take a look at the UK's and the EU's airspace on a map you will notice that although there are 2 paths to international airspace open to the UK, one northen rout to the west/northwest and one southwestern route to the west. There are no routes open to any other points of the compass. And although blocking our airspace to the EU would not be an inconvenience for most EU carriers on transatlantic routes (most use the great circle over Greenland) and don't need to overfly our airspace. The EU blocking our carriers use of EU airspace would destroy virtually all non transatlantic air travel from the UK. Its a question of size and just like the EU's economic size and therefore clout their airspace has a similar overwhelming size advantage if we are stupid enough to fight them." Where is EU airspace in relation to Ireland? | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? It didn't say "leave, no deal, leave" on my ballot paper. But what you forget is that leading members of the Leave campaign said that the day after we vote leave we will be able to negotiate a better trade deal with the EU than the one we have now, because we would hold all the cards. Negotiating a new trade deal with the EU was a commitment made by the Leave campaign so a BREXIT that does not include a new, better trade deal with the EU is not a BREXIT that satisfies referendum mandate nor one that reflects the 'will of the people' expressed in the referendum. BREXITERS can not keep on going back on the commitments made by the Leave campaign and still try to claim that they're fulfilling 'the will of the people'. There is not, and never was, a mandate for a 'no deal' BREXIT. " Agrred. 17m people did not vote for no deal, they didn’t vote for the current Tory deal. It is likely that if they knew we’d be where weare now that a large number would have either abstainedorvoted to Remain. | |||
"Where is EU airspace in relation to Ireland?" ROI (EU) airspace is directly to the west there are 2 gaps in the ring 1 to the north 1 to the south. "Based on this being brought up in this thread .... If EU withdraw regulatory cover, doesn’t this affect all uk carriers to everywhere? Without cover no one recognises their safety ? Why is the eu withdrawing not us walking away ? Doesn’t brexit mean brexit ? Which other parts of Europe are we staying tied to ? Would be remaining be a side deal ? Didn’t we get told this was projectvgear and open skies meant we were okay ?" You are of course correct, the same problem (UK product standards being underwritten and guaranteed by EU standards (CE standards) which will no longer apply from 29/3/19. Shame that our Tory government have wasted the last 2 years when rather than using them to reinstate the BSI and then refund it (of course that would have cost large sums of money which would have put the lie to the whole brexit sham!). | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? It didn't say "leave, no deal, leave" on my ballot paper. But what you forget is that leading members of the Leave campaign said that the day after we vote leave we will be able to negotiate a better trade deal with the EU than the one we have now, because we would hold all the cards. Negotiating a new trade deal with the EU was a commitment made by the Leave campaign so a BREXIT that does not include a new, better trade deal with the EU is not a BREXIT that satisfies referendum mandate nor one that reflects the 'will of the people' expressed in the referendum. BREXITERS can not keep on going back on the commitments made by the Leave campaign and still try to claim that they're fulfilling 'the will of the people'. There is not, and never was, a mandate for a 'no deal' BREXIT. Agrred. 17m people did not vote for no deal, they didn’t vote for the current Tory deal. It is likely that if they knew we’d be where weare now that a large number would have either abstainedorvoted to Remain." Polling on the subject just doesn't reflect on your view. Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. For many leave voters their position has hardened and would rather have a no deal exit rather than May's deal, just look at the straw poll that was done on here the other day, all the brexiters who posted on the thread said no deal, I don't think May's deal got a single vote. | |||
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"Don't think Spain,Portugal,Greece,Italy etc would be happy with losing millions of British tourists every year." And that won’t happen because “no deal” is simply stupid on all sides. There will have to be a deal of some description to ensure that (for example) planes keep flying and Airbus doesn’t shut up shop in the U.K. But remember, this is just one sector. There are countless other sectors of industry and our economy that will rely on a deal being in place. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? It didn't say "leave, no deal, leave" on my ballot paper. But what you forget is that leading members of the Leave campaign said that the day after we vote leave we will be able to negotiate a better trade deal with the EU than the one we have now, because we would hold all the cards. Negotiating a new trade deal with the EU was a commitment made by the Leave campaign so a BREXIT that does not include a new, better trade deal with the EU is not a BREXIT that satisfies referendum mandate nor one that reflects the 'will of the people' expressed in the referendum. BREXITERS can not keep on going back on the commitments made by the Leave campaign and still try to claim that they're fulfilling 'the will of the people'. There is not, and never was, a mandate for a 'no deal' BREXIT. Agrred. 17m people did not vote for no deal, they didn’t vote for the current Tory deal. It is likely that if they knew we’d be where weare now that a large number would have either abstainedorvoted to Remain. Polling on the subject just doesn't reflect on your view. Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. For many leave voters their position has hardened and would rather have a no deal exit rather than May's deal, just look at the straw poll that was done on here the other day, all the brexiters who posted on the thread said no deal, I don't think May's deal got a single vote. " well mine has definately hardened .all thanks to the remoaners .Mrs,fudge however is not the one to take us out .her deal stinks.if there,is,going to be a,second or third referendum I will keep on voting out .as for elections I will never ever vote again . if they can't listen to the people then they don't deserve any support . we need new leaders,and I'm not talking about any of the current lot on any side .they all need binning. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? It didn't say "leave, no deal, leave" on my ballot paper. But what you forget is that leading members of the Leave campaign said that the day after we vote leave we will be able to negotiate a better trade deal with the EU than the one we have now, because we would hold all the cards. Negotiating a new trade deal with the EU was a commitment made by the Leave campaign so a BREXIT that does not include a new, better trade deal with the EU is not a BREXIT that satisfies referendum mandate nor one that reflects the 'will of the people' expressed in the referendum. BREXITERS can not keep on going back on the commitments made by the Leave campaign and still try to claim that they're fulfilling 'the will of the people'. There is not, and never was, a mandate for a 'no deal' BREXIT. Agrred. 17m people did not vote for no deal, they didn’t vote for the current Tory deal. It is likely that if they knew we’d be where weare now that a large number would have either abstainedorvoted to Remain. Polling on the subject just doesn't reflect on your view. Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. For many leave voters their position has hardened and would rather have a no deal exit rather than May's deal, just look at the straw poll that was done on here the other day, all the brexiters who posted on the thread said no deal, I don't think May's deal got a single vote. " The rather sad fact is that whilst some people may be forgiven for not actually understanding what “no deal” really means, those in positions of responsibility really out to know better than to be so loose and free with the statement. There will be a deal because to not have one would bring the entire U.K. economy to a stand still. The world revolves on regulatory legal frameworks - food, banking, construction, insurance, aviation, shipping, haulage - you name it - it all needs to have a framework. No deal means no agreements on food quality standards, licensing of people, rights of passage, insurance quality controls - simply everything we take for granted in day to day life is currently regulated by EU law. Once we leave without any deal, the EU wont be able to recognise any standards and frameworks (that we don’t actually yet have anyway yet). Hence the result that with no deal - aircraft won’t fly, imports and exports stop, shipping stops etc etc There will be a deal and the talk of no deal is ridiculous. The line always has been “what deal”, not “no deal” | |||
"Don't think Spain,Portugal,Greece,Italy etc would be happy with losing millions of British tourists every year." I am sure that is true. But this is about aviation operating within legal framework. Both the EU and the UK websites list the legal provisions of the aviation sector that will no longer apply to the UK when it leaves the single. If no successor arrangement is put in place, i.e a “deal”, there is no legal framework in place to allow airlines from one market place to operate in another market place. The technical papers describe these. Without those reciprocal agreements recognising things like licensing, safety, insurance etc, lawyers will be advising airport operators they will be in breach of the law to permit airlines operating outwith a recognised legal framework. That is what no deal means, in this and many other sectors. | |||
"Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. " 2 points: Point 1: Up to... So that could be anything from 0 to 85%, but 15% would not vote leave... Point 2: 15% of 17 million is 2,550,000, therefore going on your figures 20 million (aprox) would now vote remain against 15 million (aprox) leave. Just saying... | |||
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"since we are talking aviation...people on one side at talking a fair amount of nonsense again (guess who.... begins with "C") that probably the UK have is that it is the UK who are withdrawing from EU safety regulations.... not the other way around... so on march 30th, unless specified agreements are made, UK saftey and maintenance record will not be recognised by one single country! as i said... think of it as a process... you can't drive a car legally, if you don't have insurance you can't get insurance unless you have a valid mot you can't get a mot unless you get it check by someone who can give you the saftey checks and certificate same principle for airplanes.... uk planes will be grounded not because of those nast EU pastys... they will be grounded because they won't have any international insurance for them to fly!!! and all of that is even before they talk about airslots of planes to fly! EU-US "Openskies" (spoiler.... less flights to the us, because the us govt have offered the uk less landing spots under the new agreement they want to sign)" yes read the technical paper on it.Unless the eu want to be bloody minded and fuck thier people up as well as ours it's as simple as having a reciprocal agreement. So the only way uk airlines are not going to fly is because of the eu the UK has already said they will except eu planes.So more scaremongering. | |||
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"since we are talking aviation...people on one side at talking a fair amount of nonsense again (guess who.... begins with "C") that probably the UK have is that it is the UK who are withdrawing from EU safety regulations.... not the other way around... so on march 30th, unless specified agreements are made, UK saftey and maintenance record will not be recognised by one single country! as i said... think of it as a process... you can't drive a car legally, if you don't have insurance you can't get insurance unless you have a valid mot you can't get a mot unless you get it check by someone who can give you the saftey checks and certificate same principle for airplanes.... uk planes will be grounded not because of those nast EU pastys... they will be grounded because they won't have any international insurance for them to fly!!! and all of that is even before they talk about airslots of planes to fly! EU-US "Openskies" (spoiler.... less flights to the us, because the us govt have offered the uk less landing spots under the new agreement they want to sign)yes read the technical paper on it.Unless the eu want to be bloody minded and fuck thier people up as well as ours it's as simple as having a reciprocal agreement. So the only way uk airlines are not going to fly is because of the eu the UK has already said they will except eu planes.So more scaremongering. " Hey people don't care if they are legal or not. The number of British cars here in France is unbelievable! They are all on "Sorn" so they complying with UK law, but are flouting French law. Mot has expired, British insured but that's not in place as no current mot. Unless your a permanent resident in France Your are not allowed to have a French registered car. If your car is in France for more than 6 months it has to be French registered - catch 22! Police are clamping down though and confiscating vehicles. Us Brits complain about foreigners coming to UK and not following rules - but us Brits abroad can be just as bad! | |||
"Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. 2 points: Point 1: Up to... So that could be anything from 0 to 85%, but 15% would not vote leave... Point 2: 15% of 17 million is 2,550,000, therefore going on your figures 20 million (aprox) would now vote remain against 15 million (aprox) leave. Just saying..." Will I didn't say it was 85% of leave voters. It's 85% of people on both sides and your not taking into consideration remainers who have changed their minds and would now vote leave. | |||
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"Yeah and when we leave we Will be able to trade with the whole world how many people is that?." We already do, as a market place of 500 million. We will in future, as a market place of 65 million. | |||
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"There will be a deal and the talk of no deal is ridiculous. The line always has been “what deal”, not “no deal”" Apart from don’t forget it was May herself that came up with the line ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’. So she is very much responsible for a lot of the mess she is in now. -Matt | |||
" it's as simple as having a reciprocal agreement. That is a "deal". But you want to walk away with "NO DEAL"" But it is not even that. Even if the U.K. and the EU had a reciprocal agreement you would need the OTHER countries outside the EU to recognise that reciprocal agreement. -Matt | |||
" it's as simple as having a reciprocal agreement. That is a "deal". But you want to walk away with "NO DEAL" But it is not even that. Even if the U.K. and the EU had a reciprocal agreement you would need the OTHER countries outside the EU to recognise that reciprocal agreement. -Matt" no matt the UK has already 111asa,s with other parts of the world try reading the gov paper on it.Just because people keep saying something doesn't make it a fact. | |||
" it's as simple as having a reciprocal agreement. That is a "deal". But you want to walk away with "NO DEAL" But it is not even that. Even if the U.K. and the EU had a reciprocal agreement you would need the OTHER countries outside the EU to recognise that reciprocal agreement. -Mattno matt the UK has already 111asa,s with other parts of the world try reading the gov paper on it.Just because people keep saying something doesn't make it a fact." From the caa The CAA and DfT are working with the USA, Canada and Brazil to ensure replacement Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreements are in place post Brexit. These arrangements facilitate the recognition of each others’ safety certificates, and support both international trade and airline operations. Similar agreements are not necessarily needed with other countries: member of the global aviation regulator ICAO provides a degree of confidence in respective safety regimes, and in some cases we agree specific working arrangements with individual states. | |||
"Yeah and when we leave we Will be able to trade with the whole world how many people is that?." Thing is, we already can and do trade with nearly the whole world right now, you're just trotting out the bullshit BREXIT sound bites. We trade on WTO rules with nearly every nation other than nations we have free trade agreements with. The nations we have FTA's with are obviously much better than just WTO trading but it's BREXIT mania that is driving to to WTO rules with every nation we trade with. | |||
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"Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. 2 points: Point 1: Up to... So that could be anything from 0 to 85%, but 15% would not vote leave... Point 2: 15% of 17 million is 2,550,000, therefore going on your figures 20 million (aprox) would now vote remain against 15 million (aprox) leave. Just saying..." Or, 15% would not vote remain..15% of 16 M is about 2,400,000. Therefore 20 million would now vote leave, against 14.5 Million remain. Just saying.... | |||
"Most polling shows upto 85% of people just haven't changed their minds about how they voted in the referendum and would vote the same way again now. 2 points: Point 1: Up to... So that could be anything from 0 to 85%, but 15% would not vote leave... Point 2: 15% of 17 million is 2,550,000, therefore going on your figures 20 million (aprox) would now vote remain against 15 million (aprox) leave. Just saying... Or, 15% would not vote remain..15% of 16 M is about 2,400,000. Therefore 20 million would now vote leave, against 14.5 Million remain. Just saying...." so we’re agreed. It’s not a useful stat for anyone. | |||
"Or, 15% would not vote remain..15% of 16 M is about 2,400,000. Therefore 20 million would now vote leave, against 14.5 Million remain. Just saying...." Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the brexit debacle 15% of those who voted remain would now vote leave and none of those who voted leave would now vote remain? | |||
"Or, 15% would not vote remain..15% of 16 M is about 2,400,000. Therefore 20 million would now vote leave, against 14.5 Million remain. Just saying.... Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the brexit debacle 15% of those who voted remain would now vote leave and none of those who voted leave would now vote remain?" Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the Brexit debacle being led by a remainer, working with other remainers stabbing brexit in the back, that 15% of those who voted leave will now vote remain? | |||
"Or, 15% would not vote remain..15% of 16 M is about 2,400,000. Therefore 20 million would now vote leave, against 14.5 Million remain. Just saying.... Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the brexit debacle 15% of those who voted remain would now vote leave and none of those who voted leave would now vote remain? Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the Brexit debacle being led by a remainer, working with other remainers stabbing brexit in the back, that 15% of those who voted leave will now vote remain?" Do you really think a brexiteer would have delivered "utopia"? May a convered leaver was probably worse than a leaver initially - until she realised reality! But before you knock May let's look at the brexiteers: FARAGE - talked the talk but knew he was never going to be required to do anything. He did his job so waiting for his £73,000pa pension. He has since admitted that it was all about leaving, nothing to do with the economy. His famous phrase (and most brexiteers ) was "we buy more off them than they buy from us" - of course we'll get a deal German carmakers won't allow it. DAVID DAVIS - man in charge of the negotiations - until recently when May realised how bad he was. It's going to be a hell of a summer - then he rolled over and capitulated! Thick as mince has been used - well his latest remarks -leave no deal - transition period to negotiate an FTA - from the expert handling the brexit negotiations for almost 2 yrs! JRM (Mogg) - talked the talk and when it came to ousting May - struggling to get 47 more names to add to his! He has learnt it's cheap to talk - imagine what deal he would have got. Although he never wanted the responsibility of doing anything other than "sniping". BOJO - failed the leadership challenge after Give said he wasn't leadership material. Went around the world insulting everybody. How to make friends and influence people. GOVE - seen as a back stabbing weasel - making his way back - one for the future! IDS, HOWARD, REDWOOD, FOX - all failed Tory leader's or failed to win the race - say no more. So before you knock May look at your own shower. They promised the undeliverable and now we are ALL going to pay for it. Bravo! | |||
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"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit. "The problem is that remain side says (with good reason) a vote on the final deal is needed BEFORE brexit becomes a fait au complet, the other side says no, we won and that is all that matters regardless of how we won or how many lies our side told. Until this impasse is resolved there can be no progress regarding any of the subsequent issues, including the reuniting of the nation which will be virtually impossible if brexit turns out to be a disaster. | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
The problem is that remain side says (with good reason) a vote on the final deal is needed BEFORE brexit becomes a fait au complet, the other side says no, we won and that is all that matters regardless of how we won or how many lies our side told. Until this impasse is resolved there can be no progress regarding any of the subsequent issues, including the reuniting of the nation which will be virtually impossible if brexit turns out to be a disaster. "We are leaving 29/3 - it may not be what was promised - but it fulfils the ballot paper - leave the EU. | |||
" We are leaving 29/3 - it may not be what was promised - but it fulfils the ballot paper - leave the EU. " Yep. And the choice now appears to be between one driven by pragmatism - minimising the disruption in the short-term - versus one driven by ideology. Ideology is not a good maker of policy. Evidence is. | |||
" We are leaving 29/3 - it may not be what was promised - but it fulfils the ballot paper - leave the EU. Yep. And the choice now appears to be between one driven by pragmatism - minimising the disruption in the short-term - versus one driven by ideology. Ideology is not a good maker of policy. Evidence is. " | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! OMG Centy, you really don't understand what is happening at all (even though you (we) were told what the EU's bottom line was 2 years ago. Let me remind you that after we voted to leave the EU told us that the EU position was that if any remaining member had an issue with us the other EU states would back them (that's why the ROI has had a veto on any agreement and we have been forced to back down at every point on the ROI/NI border and regulatory alignment issue. Now that that is sorted(ish) it's Spain's turn and they did say that they would require a settlement acceptable to them or they would block any deal 2 years ago. Now you can crow as Spain now turns the screw on us claiming that there is no EU unity, but I expect you will be seeing Mr Barnier now shrugging and saying 'whats your proposal Mrs May/UK?' Just to be clear this is what happens when anyone other than the USA or China try to push around the largest trading block (and single market economy) in the world. And let me remind you now that last year the maybot and BoJo were too busy to have the FO arrange visas for a Moldavian trade delegation and that at the time the Moldavian president said that he would make the UK pay for that insult. Now Moldova are blocking (as is their right) all attempts for the UK to vary our WTO schedule just like Spain are now beginning to turn the screw on us. The it will be the turn of the French over fishing rights. And we are the ones who will have no choice but to back down (yet again). Of course we can always decide to crash out with no deal and refuse to pay the divorce bill. Then the EU can withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft and medicines and enforce full border controls and cause this country to grind to a halt in a matter of days. I wonder if you will be crowing if we end up going down that path Centy? We've not been 'forced' to back down will, Theresa May has just demonstrated that she has no backbone, she is spineless and doesn't know what a red line means. She's a remainer and she's not up to the job. If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. The EU is not the only place we can purchase medicines and food from either we're an island nation and are perfectly placed to ship in medicine, food and other goods from Canada, USA and South America. " Ah the graveyard of broken dreams | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh Centaur. No country in Europe is offering us any side deals or fighting ot corner. Not even your beloved right wing "anti-European" governments. We have no friends because we've been rude to them for a very long time and they just don't need to be polite anymore. We don't have that many friends in the WTO either. Australia, New Zealand and the USA are opposing our schedule request let alone Russia and any other country that may want to squeeze something out of us. We are weaker than ever in our history. It must have gone straight over your head that myself and other true brexiters don't want any side deals with anyone in the EU. We just want to leave, no deal, leave, as it said on the ballot paper in the EU referendum which you lost, Leave the EU, are you getting it yet? " You ok hun? | |||
"Or, 15% would not vote remain..15% of 16 M is about 2,400,000. Therefore 20 million would now vote leave, against 14.5 Million remain. Just saying.... Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the brexit debacle 15% of those who voted remain would now vote leave and none of those who voted leave would now vote remain? Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the Brexit debacle being led by a remainer, working with other remainers stabbing brexit in the back, that 15% of those who voted leave will now vote remain?" Ah the old school playground classic | |||
"Are you seriously suggesting that having had 2 years worth of the Brexit debacle being led by a remainer, working with other remainers stabbing brexit in the back, that 15% of those who voted leave will now vote remain?" I don't know, but I would give the country an opportunity to make the final decision on the issue (including stopping the whole process) when it is clear what brexit will look like before it happens, and this seems to be the position of nearly all who are not in the brexit camp and not looking to use brexit to gain power. For some reason none in the brexit camp seem to favour this approach. I wonder why? Could it be that the leave camp know that they would lose any vote on the issue now that the country realises how dangerous the whole idea is? | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit. "And, indeed, classic remain. | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
And, indeed, classic remain."You know what, for a bunch that "won" your all miserable buggers - God knows what you'd be like if you lost! | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
And, indeed, classic remain."I meant brexit threads rather than leave voters. Both sides do this at times. | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
And, indeed, classic remain.
You know what, for a bunch that "won" your all miserable buggers - God knows what you'd be like if you lost! "Probably something like you! You have milked being a loser for all its worth, especially as you are only really bothered about the lower exchange rate for the pound! Lol | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
And, indeed, classic remain.
I meant brexit threads rather than leave voters. Both sides do this at times. " | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
And, indeed, classic remain.
You know what, for a bunch that "won" your all miserable buggers - God knows what you'd be like if you lost! "Who knows? But I'm sure we wouldn't have been as miserable, bitter, twisted, sour faced, and looking like we just sucked a pretty sour Lemon as your average remainer looks these days.  | |||
"This thread was at risk about talking about the real challenges in getting a deal agreed and the real issues with a no deal. And now we’re back to arguing what an uncited poll may mean about where people’s voting tendencies may lie. Classic brexit.
And, indeed, classic remain.
You know what, for a bunch that "won" your all miserable buggers - God knows what you'd be like if you lost!
Who knows? But I'm sure we wouldn't have been as miserable, bitter, twisted, sour faced, and looking like we just sucked a pretty sour Lemon as your average remainer looks these days. " | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " Oh dear. Shame the fact that countries having a say in the undemocratic EU makes a nonsense of the whole "taking back control" line, and also holds up agreement after 2 years of the UK government negotiating with itself because halfwit brexiters had no f*cking plan to start with. Also a shame that if the Brexit deal is voted down they'll be a Peoples Vote which you said would never happen. And then Brexit will be cancelled. You must be angry. Maybe that's why you're grasping desperately at straws, again | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh dear. Shame the fact that countries having a say in the undemocratic EU makes a nonsense of the whole "taking back control" line, and also holds up agreement after 2 years of the UK government negotiating with itself because halfwit brexiters had no f*cking plan to start with. Also a shame that if the Brexit deal is voted down they'll be a Peoples Vote which you said would never happen. And then Brexit will be cancelled. You must be angry. Maybe that's why you're grasping desperately at straws, again "Actually, there is no veto on it. It can go through on majority voting. | |||
"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! Oh dear. Shame the fact that countries having a say in the undemocratic EU makes a nonsense of the whole "taking back control" line, and also holds up agreement after 2 years of the UK government negotiating with itself because halfwit brexiters had no f*cking plan to start with. Also a shame that if the Brexit deal is voted down they'll be a Peoples Vote which you said would never happen. And then Brexit will be cancelled. You must be angry. Maybe that's why you're grasping desperately at straws, again
Actually, there is no veto on it. It can go through on majority voting. "Discussing vote in House of Commons as per OPs post | |||
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"I remember the rabid Brexiteers declaring the German car industry would never allow the UK to leave the single market without a trade deal in place. Now those same voices seem to be demanding the complete opposite - to leave without any deal at all. What happened to make you volte face? " I wonder if the history books will record this period of time in the same way that the outside world is looking on at us the moment?.... With absolute incredulity. | |||
"I remember the rabid Brexiteers declaring the German car industry would never allow the UK to leave the single market without a trade deal in place. Now those same voices seem to be demanding the complete opposite - to leave without any deal at all. What happened to make you volte face? " No, no, no... you’ve got it wrong. The German automakers *want* to keep us in, but that big bad nasty unelected EU wants to chuck us out because they are controlled by the Ger.... Oh. -Matt | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! OMG Centy, you really don't understand what is happening at all (even though you (we) were told what the EU's bottom line was 2 years ago. Let me remind you that after we voted to leave the EU told us that the EU position was that if any remaining member had an issue with us the other EU states would back them (that's why the ROI has had a veto on any agreement and we have been forced to back down at every point on the ROI/NI border and regulatory alignment issue. Now that that is sorted(ish) it's Spain's turn and they did say that they would require a settlement acceptable to them or they would block any deal 2 years ago. Now you can crow as Spain now turns the screw on us claiming that there is no EU unity, but I expect you will be seeing Mr Barnier now shrugging and saying 'whats your proposal Mrs May/UK?' Just to be clear this is what happens when anyone other than the USA or China try to push around the largest trading block (and single market economy) in the world. And let me remind you now that last year the maybot and BoJo were too busy to have the FO arrange visas for a Moldavian trade delegation and that at the time the Moldavian president said that he would make the UK pay for that insult. Now Moldova are blocking (as is their right) all attempts for the UK to vary our WTO schedule just like Spain are now beginning to turn the screw on us. The it will be the turn of the French over fishing rights. And we are the ones who will have no choice but to back down (yet again). Of course we can always decide to crash out with no deal and refuse to pay the divorce bill. Then the EU can withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft and medicines and enforce full border controls and cause this country to grind to a halt in a matter of days. I wonder if you will be crowing if we end up going down that path Centy? We've not been 'forced' to back down will, Theresa May has just demonstrated that she has no backbone, she is spineless and doesn't know what a red line means. She's a remainer and she's not up to the job. If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. The EU is not the only place we can purchase medicines and food from either we're an island nation and are perfectly placed to ship in medicine, food and other goods from Canada, USA and South America. " We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win. | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! OMG Centy, you really don't understand what is happening at all (even though you (we) were told what the EU's bottom line was 2 years ago. Let me remind you that after we voted to leave the EU told us that the EU position was that if any remaining member had an issue with us the other EU states would back them (that's why the ROI has had a veto on any agreement and we have been forced to back down at every point on the ROI/NI border and regulatory alignment issue. Now that that is sorted(ish) it's Spain's turn and they did say that they would require a settlement acceptable to them or they would block any deal 2 years ago. Now you can crow as Spain now turns the screw on us claiming that there is no EU unity, but I expect you will be seeing Mr Barnier now shrugging and saying 'whats your proposal Mrs May/UK?' Just to be clear this is what happens when anyone other than the USA or China try to push around the largest trading block (and single market economy) in the world. And let me remind you now that last year the maybot and BoJo were too busy to have the FO arrange visas for a Moldavian trade delegation and that at the time the Moldavian president said that he would make the UK pay for that insult. Now Moldova are blocking (as is their right) all attempts for the UK to vary our WTO schedule just like Spain are now beginning to turn the screw on us. The it will be the turn of the French over fishing rights. And we are the ones who will have no choice but to back down (yet again). Of course we can always decide to crash out with no deal and refuse to pay the divorce bill. Then the EU can withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft and medicines and enforce full border controls and cause this country to grind to a halt in a matter of days. I wonder if you will be crowing if we end up going down that path Centy? We've not been 'forced' to back down will, Theresa May has just demonstrated that she has no backbone, she is spineless and doesn't know what a red line means. She's a remainer and she's not up to the job. If we leave on no deal and the EU withdraw regulatory cover for civil aircraft then 2 can play at that game, we can withdraw permission for the EU to use British airspace. I suggest you look on a flight map of the amount of flights the EU uses to fly to America, Canada, etc through British airspace, their airlines won't last very long without those flights. The EU is not the only place we can purchase medicines and food from either we're an island nation and are perfectly placed to ship in medicine, food and other goods from Canada, USA and South America. We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win. "It'll be rather more expensive to import things which are priced in $$$. Have you not noticed that the £ vs $ isnt good for a net importing nation with a crap currency? | |||
"........... snipped: We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win. "So let's just get this right... The stuff we are already importing from external countries, via our Membership of WTO (EU Rating) will suddenly become cheaper because these private companies inb other countries would rather deal with the UK and would, therefore, sell us stuff cheaper?? That is some strange business logic you have there. | |||
"........... snipped: We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win.
So let's just get this right...
The stuff we are already importing from external countries, via our Membership of WTO (EU Rating) will suddenly become cheaper because these private companies inb other countries would rather deal with the UK and would, therefore, sell us stuff cheaper??
That is some strange business logic you have there."BREXIT, it's very much like religion | |||
"........... snipped: We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win.
So let's just get this right...
The stuff we are already importing from external countries, via our Membership of WTO (EU Rating) will suddenly become cheaper because these private companies inb other countries would rather deal with the UK and would, therefore, sell us stuff cheaper??
That is some strange business logic you have there."
I am no rocket scientist but surely anyone can see that a small business (the UK) will pay more proportionately for its goods than a large business (the EU). I suppose the only way around this is to become somewhere like Gibraltar where the overall tax levied is 3 per cent and there is no vat but then again all that does is provide cheap shopping for the Spanish and financial services for some quite dubious companies so maybe that’ll be ok in London and the South East but perhaps the rest of us might suffer. The good news though is that with global warming we will become a holiday destination but then I suppose we might be a bit stuck if we don’t have all the Poles, Ukrainians, Bulgarians who clean our hotels and kp in our kitchens. Gosh will that mean we have to make all our kids stop doing degrees and learn how to pick spuds and clean loos if they ever want a real job? Perhaps the era of liberal education and free healthcare is coming to a close and the working classes can go back to being serfs to the local lord of the manor (JRM). I’m disgusted by it all. | |||
"........... snipped: We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win.
So let's just get this right...
The stuff we are already importing from external countries, via our Membership of WTO (EU Rating) will suddenly become cheaper because these private companies inb other countries would rather deal with the UK and would, therefore, sell us stuff cheaper??
That is some strange business logic you have there.
BREXIT, it's very much like religion "More like a fanatic sect. | |||
"We already import a lot of food and other products from those countries, and everywhere from Argentina to Israel. There is absolutely nothing that we get from within the EU that we can’t get from elsewhere, and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices. Remoaners on here are trying to say we will struggle outside the EU, but we will be fine. They are still extremely sore that they lost a referendum that they were supposed to be certain to win. " Which begs the question; why isn't that the case already? "and these other nations will be desperate to offer us the best prices" Have a think about that | |||
"This aged well "It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it. | |||
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"But still the EU countries are not as divided as the Conservative party of the U.K. " or labour | |||
"But still the EU countries are not as divided as the Conservative party of the U.K. or labour " If there’s one thing we already knew before this shambles, it’s that 90% of politicians are shysters. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it. "centy.... dear centy..... if you think THIS is a split, wait till next tuesdays votes and see what will happen if the Cooper/Boles ammendment isn't allowed a free vote..... May could lose basically every moderate minister in her cabinet downwards...... that will be a chasm........ | |||
"But still the EU countries are not as divided as the Conservative party of the U.K. or labour " . Or quite a lot of families in our country ,,, but it wasn't the EU or the Labour Party who got us on to this mess ,,, it was the Conservative party who kept telling us about their long term economic plan despite having no plan what so ever for a leave vote in their own referendum , | |||
| |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it. "Also in the news... Germany's equivalent of the CBI, along with the next German Chancellor, has penned an open letter to the rest of the EU trying to get the UK "onside", German industry is now applying pressure to the EU leaders to try and sort a deal. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
Also in the news...
Germany's equivalent of the CBI, along with the next German Chancellor, has penned an open letter to the rest of the EU trying to get the UK "onside", German industry is now applying pressure to the EU leaders to try and sort a deal."um... yeah..... not quite..... actually the letter is from the german business community... and the next leader of merkles german party (so likely to be the next chancellor).... it a "love letter" from them to the UK asking us to ditch brexit and stay in the EU.......
(i would put up the link in the times where it was published.... but it is behind a firewall so you wouldn't be able to read it!)
p.s clue is in the title of the letter....‘German friends’ urge Britain to stay in EU | |||
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"Lets not forget the EU keeps Europe stable and peaceful. Not forgetting the active civil war in Ukraine. The number of Eastern European countries rejecting refugee and immigration policies. United Europe indeed.
It really was despicable how the EU destabilised Ukraine, encouraging a coup against a democratically elected government there. Trying to tempt Ukraine to join the EU was a deliberate provocation against Russia. The EU has a lot to answer for, for the conflict that happened there. "The UK was a main leader in the Eu So you are clearly pointing a finger at the UK and would want them to answer ? Also I'm a passionate remainer DO NOT use silly generalisations I would not suggest the eu is United and in agreement, a damn good reason not to leave as negotiating any scenario better than what we have, from outside was and is always going to be futile if not impossible compared to from the strength within | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious.w Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
Also in the news...
Germany's equivalent of the CBI, along with the next German Chancellor, has penned an open letter to the rest of the EU trying to get the UK "onside", German industry is now applying pressure to the EU leaders to try and sort a deal."I think Germany is panicking, why? because car drivers are waking up to the fact that Korean cars, Japanese cars are quite reliable..and some have 7 year warranties...no volkswagen for this brit now.. Adam | |||
| |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it. "The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries. But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious.w Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
Also in the news...
Germany's equivalent of the CBI, along with the next German Chancellor, has penned an open letter to the rest of the EU trying to get the UK "onside", German industry is now applying pressure to the EU leaders to try and sort a deal.
I think Germany is panicking, why? because car drivers are waking up to the fact that Korean cars, Japanese cars are quite reliable..and some have 7 year warranties...no volkswagen for this brit now..
Adam"The OP is a big fan of No Deal, so expect him along any moment to tell these foreigners to pipe down and mind their own business. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries.
But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world. "You're still in denial then. The closer we get to March 29th the wider apart and mire public the splits in the EU will become. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious.w Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
Also in the news...
Germany's equivalent of the CBI, along with the next German Chancellor, has penned an open letter to the rest of the EU trying to get the UK "onside", German industry is now applying pressure to the EU leaders to try and sort a deal.
I think Germany is panicking, why? because car drivers are waking up to the fact that Korean cars, Japanese cars are quite reliable..and some have 7 year warranties...no volkswagen for this brit now..
Adam" I used to have a BMW, can honestly say it was shit. Broke down 2 times in 5 years. Got rid of it and replaced it with a Honda. The Honda is a much more reliable and better quality vehicle. Japanese engineering is miles better than German. | |||
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"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries.
But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world.
You're still in denial then. The closer we get to March 29th the wider apart and mire public the splits in the EU will become. "Well if youre right then Im sure we'll see May talking about the 5 year backstop and the EU scrambling to redefine what position all 27 can agree on. Or if youre wrong no one will be talking about a split on the EU side by friday except for the straw clutching brexiters. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries.
But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world.
You're still in denial then. The closer we get to March 29th the wider apart and mire public the splits in the EU will become.
Well if youre right then Im sure we'll see May talking about the 5 year backstop and the EU scrambling to redefine what position all 27 can agree on.
Or if youre wrong no one will be talking about a split on the EU side by friday except for the straw clutching brexiters."I don't expect a dramatic split to happen in public in the EU like that by Friday but certainly it will happen before March 29th. The splits are there now (as evidenced today) but they are managing to keep a lid on it in public at the moment. I do expect it to happen in public in mid March and get worse towards the end of March as the UK gets closer to leaving the EU without a deal. It's the EU's modus operandi to leave things to the last minute, it's just how the EU does it's business. The last week before March 29th the splits in the EU with regard to Brexit will become very public and very vocal. | |||
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"Time and time again we've been told by remainers that the EU are totally United on Brexit. If there was ever any unity it has gone now because Spain is threatening to vote against the Theresa May/EU botched deal. Spain want it renegotiated because of Gibraltar. The French are also kicking up a fuss over fishing rights in the deal, it's very clear now that EU unity was nothing more than an illusion. If the EU allow Spain and France to reopen negotiations on these things then surely it's possible for Theresa May to reopen negotiations on the toxic Irish backstop which will cause her to lose a parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal in the House of Commons. EU unity my arse! " Indeed, fuck em! | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries.
But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world. "The EU is shaky at best, Macron himself admitted he would not give the French voters their own "Frexit" referendum, because he knows that it would be a massive vote to leave. | |||
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"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries.
But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world.
The EU is shaky at best, Macron himself admitted he would not give the French voters their own "Frexit" referendum, because he knows that it would be a massive vote to leave."I watched a video on YouTube yesterday, where an Italian MEP stood up in the European Parliament with a yellow vest as said "we stand with the yellow vests in France". You won't see that on the BBC. | |||
"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious. Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
The Polish foreign minister suggested it as a way to unblock the deadlock. It was comsidered and rejected and now its business as usual. Poland arent suggesting their stance will change at all and the EU side of the agreement is still supported by all 27 EU countries.
But sure, if it makes you feel better to pretend this is an horrific split that dooms the EU forever and ever you go right ahead and do that, the rest of us will continue living in the real world.
The EU is shaky at best, Macron himself admitted he would not give the French voters their own "Frexit" referendum, because he knows that it would be a massive vote to leave.
I watched a video on YouTube yesterday, where an Italian MEP stood up in the European Parliament with a yellow vest as said "we stand with the yellow vests in France". You won't see that on the BBC. "It’s a month old. And about the Strasbourg attacks. What’s your point ? | |||
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"This aged well
It has aged well hasn't it, as Poland broke ranks with the EU today, lol. Splits in the EU were evident when I posted this thread several weeks ago but after today's events the splits are glaringly obvious.w Poland now want the backstop to be limited to 5 years but the Irish are still insisting there be no time limit on it.
Also in the news...
Germany's equivalent of the CBI, along with the next German Chancellor, has penned an open letter to the rest of the EU trying to get the UK "onside", German industry is now applying pressure to the EU leaders to try and sort a deal.
I think Germany is panicking, why? because car drivers are waking up to the fact that Korean cars, Japanese cars are quite reliable..and some have 7 year warranties...no volkswagen for this brit now..
Adam
I used to have a BMW, can honestly say it was shit. Broke down 2 times in 5 years. Got rid of it and replaced it with a Honda. The Honda is a much more reliable and better quality vehicle. Japanese engineering is miles better than German. "In all honesty, I am looking at the Kia Sportage, good write up and doesn't seem to need the inside of a service garage often Adam | |||
"27 countries signed up unanimously to the deal on the table. May cannot get her party, parliament or the country to back it. In fact, no-one can even tell you what the UK wants. Remind me again who is disunited?" The cognitive dissonance on this thread is strong. A deal was agreed two months ago between the EU and the British government. The EU hasnt moved an inch from that agreement whereas the British are flailing around not knowing what their position is from one day the next. We've become the world's laughing stock. Though curiously that's a positive for many leavers it would seem. | |||
"27 countries signed up unanimously to the deal on the table. May cannot get her party, parliament or the country to back it. In fact, no-one can even tell you what the UK wants. Remind me again who is disunited? The cognitive dissonance on this thread is strong. A deal was agreed two months ago between the EU and the British government. The EU hasnt moved an inch from that agreement whereas the British are flailing around not knowing what their position is from one day the next. We've become the world's laughing stock. Though curiously that's a positive for many leavers it would seem. " Na, it's all a bluff to appear totally inept, clueless and disunited so that when all the countries queuing up to sign deals with us are put off guard.. Isn't it.. | |||
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"And so just one day after Poland indicated they'd like to see the backstop limited to 5 years, another split appeared in the EU today, this time between Rep of Ireland and the EU commission. For months Leo Varadker and the Irish have been saying whatever happens (even in a no deal) we can't accept a return to a hard border on the island of Ireland (and usually they would be backed up by the EU on this). Today though the EU Commission changed tack and said that a no deal Brexit would mean a hard border being necessary in Ireland. The EU commission is basically telling the Republic of Ireland it is nothing more than a colony of the EU, and a hard border will be installed there at the instruction of the EU commission in Brussels, to protect the EU's external border, whether Leo, Dublin or Ireland like it or not. " Things are looking better? What do you think? | |||
"And so just one day after Poland indicated they'd like to see the backstop limited to 5 years, another split appeared in the EU today, this time between Rep of Ireland and the EU commission. For months Leo Varadker and the Irish have been saying whatever happens (even in a no deal) we can't accept a return to a hard border on the island of Ireland (and usually they would be backed up by the EU on this). Today though the EU Commission changed tack and said that a no deal Brexit would mean a hard border being necessary in Ireland. The EU commission is basically telling the Republic of Ireland it is nothing more than a colony of the EU, and a hard border will be installed there at the instruction of the EU commission in Brussels, to protect the EU's external border, whether Leo, Dublin or Ireland like it or not. " I read a different spin, namely deal or no deal, the Ireland issue will remain, and negotiations about customs unions etc wont disappear. As co guarantors if the Belfast agreement the uk can’t walk away just because it is difficult. So voting against Mays deal just because you don’t like the backstop isn’t going to solve anything. The messy bit of the divorce is sticking with us. | |||
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