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The Poppy

By *oo hot OP Couple over a year ago

North West

Poppies....

Our local Council has fixed cardboard poppy pictures on lamp posts and traffic lights all over our town.

Also, in town this morning. I noticed people walking around with "forever" poppies, brooches and pins, not to mention items of clothing featuring poppies.

This and many other websites regularly feature a "virtual" poppy at this time of the year. Facebook pages are full of posts of poppies but I have yet to see a Facebook page showing a donation for the privilege of sharing poppy images in relation to Remembrance.

The poppy (appeal) is supposed to be a fundraising exercise by the RBL for ex-servicemen and women and to remember our war dead and the highlight the horror of warfare.

I think that every poppy displayed whether on boards, on clothing items or home-made "forever" poppies should prompt a donation to the RBL - and it concerns me that this is not actually happening. The poppy is not a symbol to rally around for political or symbolic reasons and it should be used solely for what it was intended.

Anyone who displays a poppy anywhere should donate to the RBL instead of thinking that displaying a poppy is just the right thing to do.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

I guess the 100th anniversary of the Armistice is different to the normal Nov 11 commemorations.

So perhaps the outpouring of poppy mania is understandable in that regards.

But i do share the sentiment, the concern that the poppy is becoming symbolic of something other than the annual RBL appeal.

I give money to the appeal but I do not wear a poppy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Where I live there’s plenty of people with buckets that you can donate to. Plus i bought my paper poppy. Do the money from the “forever” poppies go to the cause too?

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

This year also marks the 100th anniversary of a slaughter much more devastating than World War One.

In fact, it was so severe the fighting ground to a halt because it killed so many soldiers.

Spanish Flu.

It culled an estimated 5 % of the global population - somewhere between 50 and 100 million people.

Unlike other flu, it was particularly vicious towards working-age adults and generally spared the young and the elderly.

So little is said about it, yet its effect on society was many times more devastating.

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

Our town has the large poppies on lamposts etc. Each one has been paid for by a member of the public and assigned to a fallen soldier whose name is written on a display card below them along with the person's name who paid for it.

Also plenty of people who have forever poppies still make an annual donation, I collect them so buy the new ones each year.

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By *ary_ArgyllMan over a year ago

Argyll

"This year also marks the 100th anniversary of a slaughter much more devastating than World War One.

In fact, it was so severe the fighting ground to a halt because it killed so many soldiers.

Spanish Flu.

It culled an estimated 5 % of the global population - somewhere between 50 and 100 million people.

Unlike other flu, it was particularly vicious towards working-age adults and generally spared the young and the elderly.

So little is said about it, yet its effect on society was many times more devastating.

This is true but I guess the tragedy of war is that it is man made.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

This is true but I guess the tragedy of war is that it is man made.

What's the difference?

WW1 killed 17 million people over 4 years.

The Spanish Flu killed 50-100 million over 1 year.

Is it the death toll, or the cause of the death toll, we remember?

Some people would tell that is rude, disrespectful etc etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have been reading with interest the whole poppy debate and as anirish man throwing my Penny's worth in I think in the UK there is a lot of what I call poppy fascism case in point is the footballer

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have been reading with interest the whole poppy debate and as anirish man throwing my Penny's worth in I think in the UK there is a lot of what I call poppy fascism case in point is the footballer James mc clean and the level of abuse he and his family have to endure year in year out.the world wars where nothing but slaughter and in the main working g class men and women died and for what imperial powers fighting I would agree that all momeys should go to the rbl but please a person that doesn't want to wear one has that right

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By *ITJOEMan over a year ago

London

You see this is an instance where i hold the exact opposite opinion than that of the OP.

If the poppy was a symbol of the generation of men and women who saw a threat to their and their neighbours freedom and bravely stood up to that threat, i would gladly contribute and wear that symbol.

However I won't support the many other campaigns, many of which the British establishment ( not necessarily the armed forces ) has bullied and oppressed the occupied regions around the world for their own gains.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The poppy has lost its value.

I donate but won't wear one.

I don't see the need to show others how I remember the dead.

Btw ww1 was a pointless war. Men died for no more than imperialism and greed and pride

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman over a year ago

London

"This year also marks the 100th anniversary of a slaughter much more devastating than World War One.

In fact, it was so severe the fighting ground to a halt because it killed so many soldiers.

Spanish Flu.

It culled an estimated 5 % of the global population - somewhere between 50 and 100 million people.

Unlike other flu, it was particularly vicious towards working-age adults and generally spared the young and the elderly.

So little is said about it, yet its effect on society was many times more devastating.

It was mentioned on Joanne Goode's programme on BBC London radio a couple of months ago. She went to to Florence Nightingale museum, which has an exhibition on the Spanish flu. It was fascinating to hear about this devastating slice of history.

I have known about the existence of the museum, but never felt the urge to go there until that broadcast.

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

I see President Bone Spurs cancelled a visit to a cemetery near Paris where 2000 American soldiers are buried because it was raining.

Imagine if that had been Mr Corbyn, the stick he would've got.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see President Bone Spurs cancelled a visit to a cemetery near Paris where 2000 American soldiers are buried because it was raining.

Imagine if that had been Mr Corbyn, the stick he would've got.

In fairness all the "orange" would be washed away revealing a sad old man!

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By *ara JTV/TS over a year ago

Bristol East

The same president who, after a school shooting in Florida, declared he would have run un-armed into the school to deck the shooter.

But a little bit of bad weather and oh no, he can't go to the cemetery to pay his respects to those who did not dodge the draft.

What a complete w@nker.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"This year also marks the 100th anniversary of a slaughter much more devastating than World War One.

In fact, it was so severe the fighting ground to a halt because it killed so many soldiers.

Spanish Flu.

It culled an estimated 5 % of the global population - somewhere between 50 and 100 million people.

Unlike other flu, it was particularly vicious towards working-age adults and generally spared the young and the elderly.

So little is said about it, yet its effect on society was many times more devastating.

It also marks the 80th anniversary of kristallnacht. Something else we should never forget.

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By *eavenNhellCouple over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"The same president who, after a school shooting in Florida, declared he would have run un-armed into the school to deck the shooter.

But a little bit of bad weather and oh no, he can't go to the cemetery to pay his respects to those who did not dodge the draft.

What a complete w@nker.

"
the cold and damp might set those bone spurs acheing you know

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

his tan is clearly water based

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?"

Probably because we have our own massive remembrance event to attend to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?

Probably because we have our own massive remembrance event to attend to."

And this is how the whole thing turns nationalistic.

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By *oghunter33Woman over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

"French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?

Probably because we have our own massive remembrance event to attend to.

And this is how the whole thing turns nationalistic.

Brexit.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"You see this is an instance where i hold the exact opposite opinion than that of the OP.

This is absolutely nothing to do with supporting any military campaign anywhere.

It's about remembering the service personnel who serve in conflict and in peace time. Dying and being injured both physically and mentally.

It's about thinking about the fact that they will go and serve regardless of if it makes them popular or not.

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"Poppies....

Our local Council has fixed cardboard poppy pictures on lamp posts and traffic lights all over our town.

Also, in town this morning. I noticed people walking around with "forever" poppies, brooches and pins, not to mention items of clothing featuring poppies.

The poppy (appeal) is supposed to be a fundraising exercise by the RBL for ex-servicemen and women and to remember our war dead and the highlight the horror of warfare.

Anyone who displays a poppy anywhere should donate to the RBL instead of thinking that displaying a poppy is just the right thing to do. "

I hope that is the case.

I lose at least two poppies every year before November 11th and have no issue with donating several times in the same year.

Biodegradable poppies might be an idea on multiple levels, but tricky to store enough to supply...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it."

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?

Probably because we have our own massive remembrance event to attend to.

And this is how the whole thing turns nationalistic.

It's nothing to do about being nationalistic at all. The UK & Commonwealth countries started Armastice Day in 1919 to commemorate the end of WW1, other European Countries followed suit 3 years later I think by holding their own versions. Then at some point the name was changed to Remembrance Day to incorporate all the War dead, not just the signing of WW1 Armastice Day.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

I don't see why if any Country isn't invaded yet they have sacrificed their own service men & women in the liberation of others then it makes no sense.

We were invaded, so at least it makes sense to us by your logic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

"
So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have been, reading with interest threads, on here about poppy's and also nationally about abuse, thrown up around poppy mania, the latest about Mr corbyn, and his attire at the cenataph.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you wear a poppy or not its the support you have inside yourself, by Donating, to the RBL,

Personally I have a metal unit poppy which I wear, I still put money in the boxes,

I choose not to wear my medals ex army it my choice, I was helped by the RBL a amazing organisation,

I was injured physically and mentally by them and quite possibly wouldn't be here without them,

My point, freedom of speech, freedom of expression is a right won by others blood, your choice to do as you please.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ps physical and mentaly and without them not by them (excuse the poor grammer).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?

Probably because we have our own massive remembrance event to attend to.

And this is how the whole thing turns nationalistic.

I think it was more about 100th anniversary parade where 60 nations attended and Britain were not there. The ambassador wasn't there, but Trump, Putin, Merkel and other nations represented except us. This is where the armistice was signed in 1918! The French are very staunch about rememberance day - it's a bank holiday here 11/11 so that they can remember them - only restaurants are open all shops are closed! They also commemorate the end of WW2 - with a bank holiday on 7/5!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ..."

I don't know enough about them to have a sense of merit or give you an answer you would be happy with ...but both areas are so far removed from protecting "our families" at home that the point is ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"French t.v. are asking why no representatives from the UK royal family or government are at the Paris ceremony today which has been attended by countries from around the world?

Probably because we have our own massive remembrance event to attend to.

And this is how the whole thing turns nationalistic.

The UK ambassador to France should of been there yes,

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

The point that I was making is that the rights and wrongs of any given conflict are not particularly relevant. What is relevant is:

Contemplating the horror of war

Acknowledging that servicemen face these horrors and are effected or killed by them

Donating time and/or money to help them and their families come to terms with what they have faced

If you wish to debate the semantics of one specific point then you are welcome to but please consider this:

Parents and grandparents are family. Many of this generation's parents and grandparents were alive as children during WWII so were directly protected from harm by the military

Not only white anglo-saxon people in the UK have been and are protected by British personnel. People from this country have family all over the world

The British armed forces have and do include Empire and Commonwealth troops who have also served throughout the globe

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The same president who, after a school shooting in Florida, declared he would have run un-armed into the school to deck the shooter.

But a little bit of bad weather and oh no, he can't go to the cemetery to pay his respects to those who did not dodge the draft.

What a complete w@nker.

A complete and utter shit bag who shames the office of POTUS, dereliction of duty springs to mind..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

"
So you don't know enough to realise that if Germany wasn't defeated in both wars that we'd be speaking German here in Ireland too....or do you really think old Adolf would have been happy to let us go on our merry way

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

So you don't know enough to realise that if Germany wasn't defeated in both wars that we'd be speaking German here in Ireland too....or do you really think old Adolf would have been happy to let us go on our merry way

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. "
wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point...."

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Read your own posts and let's debate in a civil way please.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Read your own posts and let's debate in a civil way please. "
No YOU re read said post because you have that arse about face..i started with both world wars ...Korea and the first gulf war as your comment about protecting " our family's " maybe the Irishmen of the time thought that Korean or Kuwaiti family's where worth protecting..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Read your own posts and let's debate in a civil way please. No YOU re read said post because you have that arse about face..i started with both world wars ...Korea and the first gulf war as your comment about protecting " our family's " maybe the Irishmen of the time thought that Korean or Kuwaiti family's where worth protecting.."

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

and in the news today, yet another scummy racist cunt is gaoled for thinking he could carve out a safe space for white supremacists in the british army ... these racist squaddie shitbags need to be expunged quickly and comrehensively

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

The point that I was making is that the rights and wrongs of any given conflict are not particularly relevant. What is relevant is:

Contemplating the horror of war

Acknowledging that servicemen face these horrors and are effected or killed by them

Donating time and/or money to help them and their families come to terms with what they have faced

If you wish to debate the semantics of one specific point then you are welcome to but please consider this:

I never mentioned families "at home"

Parents and grandparents are family. Many of this generation's parents and grandparents were alive as children during WWII so were directly protected from harm by the military

Not only white anglo-saxon people in the UK have been and are protected by British personnel. People from this country have family all over the world

The British armed forces have and do include Empire and Commonwealth troops who have also served throughout the globe

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

"
You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and in the news today, yet another scummy racist cunt is gaoled for thinking he could carve out a safe space for white supremacists in the british army ... these racist squaddie shitbags need to be expunged quickly and comrehensively"
Do one princess

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

Directly quoting for emphasis. You used the present tense which doesn't apply in modern times.

I'll make two points

1. Injured soldiers should be looked after by the government...the appeal to charity keeps this jingoism alive.

2. Humans are dreadful at facing hard facts, we seek mental security and the cold reality that many loved ones were used as pawns in unjust egotistical wars by the powers at be is a difficult pill to swallow...so we seek a security blanket story of heroism, bravery and service.

To settle Mullingar couple's point about protecting lives on home soil.. the Germans killed 26 in a Dublin bombing while the British soldiers were unarguably the biggest thread to life on our home soil in the last 200 years. I'm not bitter about the past, it's been and gone and I don't like nationalism or republicanism, it's old news but that is the cold reality.

1 million in a genocidal famine. On a population level it's relatively much much worse than the Jewish holocost or African slavery.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the whole army needs shaking down to find the growing number of these racist shitsticks and the scentence needs to be life inprisonment for the whole of their natural term ... disgusting scum

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the whole army needs shaking down to find the growing number of these racist shitsticks and the scentence needs to be life inprisonment for the whole of their natural term ... disgusting scum"

A life sentence for being racist? Maybe they could test them for homophobia too, ten years for that ay?? What if they deny it, vays off mackink you speak!!

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

Directly quoting for emphasis. You used the present tense which doesn't apply in modern times.

I'll make two points

1. Injured soldiers should be looked after by the government...the appeal to charity keeps this jingoism alive.

1 million in a genocidal famine. On a population level it's relatively much much worse than the Jewish holocost or African slavery. "

You just presented a quote which does not contain the word "home" in it.

If you do not feel that it is worth considering conflict or its consequences and do not feel that the armed forces serve any positive role or face any specific challenges as a consequence so be it.

I'm sure that neither they nor their families require any additional help than a government awash with money can offer them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the whole army needs shaking down to find the growing number of these racist shitsticks and the scentence needs to be life inprisonment for the whole of their natural term ... disgusting scum"
wear a uniform then comment or do one ( that's being civil about it )

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You just presented a quote which does not contain the word "home" in it.

If you do not feel that it is worth considering conflict or its consequences and do not feel that the armed forces serve any positive role or face any specific challenges as a consequence so be it.

I'm sure that neither they nor their families require any additional help than a government awash with money can offer them."

Don't twist it or try to put words in my mouth...I just pointed out a hole in your logic...get over it, unless you now want to argue that collectively "our families" don't live "at home".

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to."
Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars .."

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

You ignored my point about the relative death toil on Irish soil and are generally talking in riddles asking me to explain and re-explain what's written in front of your eyes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You just presented a quote which does not contain the word "home" in it.

If you do not feel that it is worth considering conflict or its consequences and do not feel that the armed forces serve any positive role or face any specific challenges as a consequence so be it.

I'm sure that neither they nor their families require any additional help than a government awash with money can offer them.

Don't twist it or try to put words in my mouth...I just pointed out a hole in your logic...get over it, unless you now want to argue that collectively "our families" don't live "at home".

Armies of course have a purpose but it should be limited to ACTUAL defense AT HOME or protecting the weak against true despotic inhumanity ..not the cause of it in political point scoring or resource grabbing!"
in an ideal world...but we don't live in an ideal world..going by your logic Russia should never have offered Assad military help,and we both know how that would have worked out..Syria a secular country would at worst be under the control of Isis..Assad is the lesser of two evils...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh it's for sure that we don't live in an ideal world when this sort of shite still goes on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just consider that everything you "know" is half true and the product of keeping the populace on a need to know basis.

Who are the real terrorists anyway.. the lines are blurred.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ahhhh, Uncle Assad

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

You ignored my point about the relative death toil on Irish soil and are generally talking in riddles asking me to explain and re-explain what's written in front of your eyes. "
i saw your comment about the death toll ( not toil ) on Irish soil and i know the history between us and England how could you not....but you seem to forget we got our independence from England..my point which you seemed to ignore ( brick comes to mind ) is in both wars especially the Second World War in which Irishmen fought in British uniform ..if the nazis crossed the channel you think they'ed have stopped at London...get a grip we'd have been nxt and a hell of a lot worse would have happened to us in their wake..unless you think they'ed have just come our way for the spuds...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ahhhh, Uncle Assad

"
what ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just consider that everything you "know" is half true and the product of keeping the populace on a need to know basis.

Who are the real terrorists anyway.. the lines are blurred. "
so history is a lie or at best a half truth !!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

You ignored my point about the relative death toil on Irish soil and are generally talking in riddles asking me to explain and re-explain what's written in front of your eyes. i saw your comment about the death toll ( not toil ) on Irish soil and i know the history between us and England how could you not....but you seem to forget we got our independence from England..my point which you seemed to ignore ( brick comes to mind ) is in both wars especially the Second World War in which Irishmen fought in British uniform ..if the nazis crossed the channel you think they'ed have stopped at London...get a grip we'd have been nxt and a hell of a lot worse would have happened to us in their wake..unless you think they'ed have just come our way for the spuds..."

Total made up supposition! Goodnight...

You have zero sense of perspective between big and small numbers and seem totally indoctrinated.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just consider that everything you "know" is half true and the product of keeping the populace on a need to know basis.

Who are the real terrorists anyway.. the lines are blurred. so history is a lie or at best a half truth !!!!!!"

You are learning

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just consider that everything you "know" is half true and the product of keeping the populace on a need to know basis.

Who are the real terrorists anyway.. the lines are blurred. so history is a lie or at best a half truth !!!!!!

You are learning

"
Break out your tin foil hat son..ye need it..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just consider that everything you "know" is half true and the product of keeping the populace on a need to know basis.

Who are the real terrorists anyway.. the lines are blurred. so history is a lie or at best a half truth !!!!!!

You are learning

Break out your tin foil hat son..ye need it.."

Everyone knows history is written by the victors.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the whole army needs shaking down to find the growing number of these racist shitsticks and the scentence needs to be life inprisonment for the whole of their natural term ... disgusting scum

A life sentence for being racist? Maybe they could test them for homophobia too, ten years for that ay?? What if they deny it, vays off mackink you speak!!

execution then .... racist tommy robinson squaddie scum suckers have no place in the military

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

You just presented a quote which does not contain the word "home" in it.

If you do not feel that it is worth considering conflict or its consequences and do not feel that the armed forces serve any positive role or face any specific challenges as a consequence so be it.

I'm sure that neither they nor their families require any additional help than a government awash with money can offer them.

Don't twist it or try to put words in my mouth...I just pointed out a hole in your logic...get over it, unless you now want to argue that collectively "our families" don't live "at home".

Nothing twisted.

You are the one getting shouty.

Much of my family lives in countries which are not within the British isles as is the case for many, many other people both now and historically.

I have no intention of celebrating those who have done evil. I believe that quite a few members of the armed forces have done the right things for the right reasons.

I do, however, choose to take the opportunity at least once a year to meditate on war and its consequences.

I also believe that they have a useful role to play abroad. Keeping the peace. Trying to protect those who cannot help themselves. Bringing aid and helping with reconstruction in times of crisis.

If you are able to individually identify those worthy of your thoughts then good for you.

I will have to be more general.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan over a year ago

Manchester

I used to think these Russian bots were conspiracy theory rubbish but after a short time on here my eyes have been opened

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By *laytimenowMan over a year ago

Essex

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

I seriously can not believe you said that & had previously claimed you know your History .

" but you seem to forget we got our independence from England.."

Ballymurphy in the news again .

You do realise the British army had/have a training zone called killymurphy street dont you,

Slightly Bigoted dont you think?

Christ above you lot in the south lived a life of Riley while youre cousins in the North were being brutalised.

Shame on you for making such a statement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Christ above you lot in the south lived a life of Riley while youre cousins in the North were being brutalised.

Yet another reason why the poppy fetishism is so distasteful.

Not just NI but many parts of the world.

We need to remember the brutal past in all it's graphic disgusting glory "lest we forget"...not turning it into a source of national pride.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

I seriously can not believe you said that & had previously claimed you know your History .

" but you seem to forget we got our independence from England.."

Ballymurphy in the news again .

You do realise the British army had/have a training zone called killymurphy street dont you,

Slightly Bigoted dont you think?

Christ above you lot in the south lived a life of Riley while youre cousins in the North were being brutalised.

Shame on you for making such a statement."
I was talking about the first and second world wars and using Korea and the gulf as examples of where Irishmen fought in s different uniform for good reasons...I know fuck well what happened in the north of Ireland and don't like it anymore then any other Irishman.....you think the Germans would have treated us any better..Jesus Christ really

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

I seriously can not believe you said that & had previously claimed you know your History .

" but you seem to forget we got our independence from England.."

Ballymurphy in the news again .

You do realise the British army had/have a training zone called killymurphy street dont you,

Slightly Bigoted dont you think?

Christ above you lot in the south lived a life of Riley while youre cousins in the North were being brutalised.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lol

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By *laytimenowMan over a year ago

Essex

It's about remembering that war is horrible and nasty and acknowledging that people will put themselves in harms way so that we and our families don't have to experience it.

That makes no sense unless your country is actually invaded.

So what's your stance on the many Irish who voluntarily fought during both world wars....or who served in the British army say in Korea or the first gulf war ...

Now you are just mixing up your wars and arguments to make a point that isn't really there.

German/English...it might have turned out fine, who knows. You can't tell how the fork in the road not taken would have turned out.

Sure the Nazis were murderous bastards but it's not like other regimes haven't commited serious genocide since. wtf are you talking about mixing up wars and arguments to make a point....

You started with Korea and gulf and ended with ww2.

Your argument is inside out and upside down....what does a war halfway across the globe have to do with families at home?

You mentioned " our family's " at home i suggest you read your post and explain that sentence so I'm not taking it up wrong

Just read up the original point I made which you then responded to.Yes you don't know enough about two wars that are there in the history books unless your including both world wars ..

Look I'll leave you to it...it's like arguing with a brick wall and if your "do one" comment is the level this conversation has dropped to then I'm out.

I seriously can not believe you said that & had previously claimed you know your History .

" but you seem to forget we got our independence from England.."

Ballymurphy in the news again .

You do realise the British army had/have a training zone called killymurphy street dont you,

Slightly Bigoted dont you think?

Christ above you lot in the south lived a life of Riley while youre cousins in the North were being brutalised.

Shame on you for making such a statement.I was talking about the first and second world wars and using Korea and the gulf as examples of where Irishmen fought in s different uniform for good reasons...I know fuck well what happened in the north of Ireland and don't like it anymore then any other Irishman.....you think the Germans would have treated us any better..Jesus Christ really "

You do know what the line

Buoin dar slua thar toinn do rainig chugainn ?

It refers to 2 Irishmen Roger Casement & Robert Monteith

Who had managed to get a german submarine full of arms for the rising sent to kerry.

Or the fact that is commonly known that german u-boat officers regularly enjoyed R & R in ireland notably

Our reader's dad, however, believed that the Tamara was on no wild goose chase. "Father regularly, as did many British servicemen, changed into civvies and nipped across the Eire border for a crafty drink. He usually went to the village of Dunfanaghy. Favourite haunts were... Molly's Bar, Arnolds Hotel and McGilloway's."

Google :- Robert Fisk, German U-boats refuelled in Ireland.

You'd be amazed at the Close ties between Ireland & Nazi Germany .I don't think the germans would have invaded us unless they had a particular craving for our Spuds or Tayto Cheese & Onion.

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By *laytimenowMan over a year ago

Essex

To finish the pub stories it goes on.

All still exist. Molly's Bar even has a Facebook page which boasts of its "craic" and McGilloway's is famous for oysters. Now, at least. But then? Our reader's dad "told me that one of the Irish landlords insisted he did not go into the snug since 'other gentlemen officers' were already there. He sneaked a look and discovered these were U-boat officers, whose craft were laying up in remote inlets on the coast, come ashore for unofficial R and R, and wearing their uniforms because Ireland was neutral."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To finish the pub stories it goes on.

"
We also sent allied airmen shot down over the country back to England and interned captured German airmen shot down over Ireland..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the whole army needs shaking down to find the growing number of these racist shitsticks and the scentence needs to be life inprisonment for the whole of their natural term ... disgusting scum

A life sentence for being racist? Maybe they could test them for homophobia too, ten years for that ay?? What if they deny it, vays off mackink you speak!!

execution then .... racist tommy robinson squaddie scum suckers have no place in the military"

Execution for holding an opinion? That’s fascism!

As for Robinson, the only place for him is the loony bin...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the whole army needs shaking down to find the growing number of these racist shitsticks and the scentence needs to be life inprisonment for the whole of their natural term ... disgusting scum

A life sentence for being racist? Maybe they could test them for homophobia too, ten years for that ay?? What if they deny it, vays off mackink you speak!!

execution then .... racist tommy robinson squaddie scum suckers have no place in the military

Execution for holding an opinion? That’s fascism!

As for Robinson, the only place for him is the loony bin..."

true ... still not harsh enough .... flayed alive then

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

I have as an ex squaddie no concerns at all with anyone who is a member of national action or whatever they're called being services no longer required by the military, ditto with anyone sharing the same ideology of the taliban or Is..

They have no place in any publicly funded service for anyone of that mindset..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have as an ex squaddie no concerns at all with anyone who is a member of national action or whatever they're called being services no longer required by the military, ditto with anyone sharing the same ideology of the taliban or Is..

They have no place in any publicly funded service for anyone of that mindset.. "

it seems some on this thread think that being a member of a proscribed terrorist organisation who were caught planning the murders of british people are merely holding 'an opinion' ... disgusting attitude

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

They have no place in any publicly funded service for anyone of that mindset..

Either ignorance, naivety or kindred spirits with such like..

Certainly can say that pretty much all military personnel would want them booted out too.

Regardless of politics that one of their own thinks attacking innocent people with machetes etc has any status other than lowest of the low..

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