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By *ittleAcorn OP Man
over a year ago
visiting the beach |
Hi all,
the threads on this part of the forums seem to be quite divisive. With sides forming quite quickly along "traditional" lines.
Has anyone ever read a thread here, and changed their point of view? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I've learned lots of things I did not know.
I can't say any of the arguments put forward bring about any sea change in my thinking, though.
A topic is posted - and it usually descends into predictable left/right commentary that is repeated over and again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are a whole host of biases which will mean most people will say no.
It has helped change my views on the different reasons people voted brexit, say. But not my view. Yet.
It’s also reinforced some views on how people make decisions.
But this may be conformation bias  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My answer is no.
Reading the racist tirades on here or the way people dismiss all non-fascists as “loony left” is unlikely to make me suddenly turn into a hateful bastard.
As one poster above said they would spit on anyone who voted remain. It’s not very persuasive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There was a thread which was a serious question from someone, an open invite to suggest some actual positives from Brexit. I thought that had potential to be interesting. But it quickly descended into catchphrases and insults.
For the record there are some arguments against the EU. But not seen anyone mention them here. Just the same old rubbish which has been proven wrong a billion times until we’re all so sick of hearing about it. So there’s never much actual discussion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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While voting to remain I know full well things within the EU could be much improved but the sort of way it's looking "leaving but with a good FTA & customs alignment" could in the long run be ok for us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"While voting to remain I know full well things within the EU could be much improved but the sort of way it's looking "leaving but with a good FTA & customs alignment" could in the long run be ok for us "
But that won't give "sovereignty " to the extremists - so won't happen. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"There was a thread which was a serious question from someone, an open invite to suggest some actual positives from Brexit. I thought that had potential to be interesting. But it quickly descended into catchphrases and insults.
For the record there are some arguments against the EU. But not seen anyone mention them here. Just the same old rubbish which has been proven wrong a billion times until we’re all so sick of hearing about it. So there’s never much actual discussion."
Haven't you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hi all,
the threads on this part of the forums seem to be quite divisive. With sides forming quite quickly along "traditional" lines.
Has anyone ever read a thread here, and changed their point of view? "
Its changed my point of view on people, who post comments based on decision making using the limbic system and those who post comments based on decision making using the neo cortex.
Quite interesting actually.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There was a thread which was a serious question from someone, an open invite to suggest some actual positives from Brexit. I thought that had potential to be interesting. But it quickly descended into catchphrases and insults.
For the record there are some arguments against the EU. But not seen anyone mention them here. Just the same old rubbish which has been proven wrong a billion times until we’re all so sick of hearing about it. So there’s never much actual discussion.
Haven't you?"
I haven’t.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"While voting to remain I know full well things within the EU could be much improved but the sort of way it's looking "leaving but with a good FTA & customs alignment" could in the long run be ok for us
But that won't give "sovereignty " to the extremists - so won't happen. "
Who knows, if the Government didn't say we'd leave / have no form of Customs Union with the EU but we end Freedom of movement by leaving the Single Market and stop paying the EU membership fee then Leavers get everything promised to them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"While voting to remain I know full well things within the EU could be much improved but the sort of way it's looking "leaving but with a good FTA & customs alignment" could in the long run be ok for us
But that won't give "sovereignty " to the extremists - so won't happen.
Who knows, if the Government didn't say we'd leave / have no form of Customs Union with the EU but we end Freedom of movement by leaving the Single Market and stop paying the EU membership fee then Leavers get everything promised to them."
Bonne chance! |
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Yep, me.
I started off as a firm together/Scotland and remainer for the EU but following the Scottish independence threads I came to realise that the only way to unite the country was to give the Luddites what they want, forcing them to face reality and then rebuild the Union/rejoin the EU. To be honest I had hoped that the Scots would leave the Union and that the following economic disaster caused by a hard border would bring the eurosceptics to their senses but when that did not happen and a watched the leave campaign unfold I decided I had to vote leave and help force the issue as while we remained in the EU as a 'special' member in but with opt-outs we would never fully integrate or be anything other than an anchor holding the EU back. |
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By *ittleAcorn OP Man
over a year ago
visiting the beach |
"Yep, me.
I started off as a firm together/Scotland and remainer for the EU but following the Scottish independence threads I came to realise that the only way to unite the country was to give the Luddites what they want, forcing them to face reality and then rebuild the Union/rejoin the EU. To be honest I had hoped that the Scots would leave the Union and that the following economic disaster caused by a hard border would bring the eurosceptics to their senses but when that did not happen and a watched the leave campaign unfold I decided I had to vote leave and help force the issue as while we remained in the EU as a 'special' member in but with opt-outs we would never fully integrate or be anything other than an anchor holding the EU back.
"
Interesting stance, to a degree I can see what you mean. But I'm concerned it's not going to be a "short, sharp shock".
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By *ittleAcorn OP Man
over a year ago
visiting the beach |
"Hi all,
the threads on this part of the forums seem to be quite divisive. With sides forming quite quickly along "traditional" lines.
Has anyone ever read a thread here, and changed their point of view?
Its changed my point of view on people, who post comments based on decision making using the limbic system and those who post comments based on decision making using the neo cortex.
Quite interesting actually.
"
Googling now...
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I try to keep an open mind about most things, and I have learned a massive amount from this forum.
There are certain things I wont be moved on, but I also appreciate other people will have different views on things. |
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"Yep, me.
I started off as a firm together/Scotland and remainer for the EU but following the Scottish independence threads I came to realise that the only way to unite the country was to give the Luddites what they want, forcing them to face reality and then rebuild the Union/rejoin the EU. To be honest I had hoped that the Scots would leave the Union and that the following economic disaster caused by a hard border would bring the eurosceptics to their senses but when that did not happen and a watched the leave campaign unfold I decided I had to vote leave and help force the issue as while we remained in the EU as a 'special' member in but with opt-outs we would never fully integrate or be anything other than an anchor holding the EU back."
Will I seem to recall you saying you voted leave to destroy the Tory party!That was your main objective wasn't it? Be honest! |
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I'm going to be somewhat ignorant of many things, with other people's experience and outlooks especially so. There are some divisions here - especially on some key topics but the better topics don't ask about in/out brexit etc, they're more upon the subtler aspects of things.
I've had my opinion on things swayed but like many here I've already invested time in thinking things through and have some strong opinions. I wish in many ways that politics was again within the lounge or other wider subject area - for more diverse input.
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"Will I seem to recall you saying you voted leave to destroy the Tory party!That was your main objective wasn't it? Be honest! "
Nope, at first my position changed during the Scottish independence campaign when it became clear that there was a rump in Scotland who did not care what damage independence did Scotland they would push it through no matter what. You can even go back through my posts during that campaign and see where I changed my mind.
Then when I saw how the pig fucker, Gideon and the Tories were willing to risk the destruction of the UK to stay in power for another term and how many of the Tories were just as fixated on leaving the EU at any price I came to the conclusion that they should be given their wish. Of course part of that wish is the breakup of the UK to secure brexit, but I am guessing that the Tories think they will be able to stop that from happening. And it my earnest desire that act will bring about the destruction of the Conservative & Unionist Party because it has been totally corrupted by 40 years of self-serving, Thatcherite neo-liberalism. |
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"My answer is no.
Reading the racist tirades on here or the way people dismiss all non-fascists as “loony left” is unlikely to make me suddenly turn into a hateful bastard.
As one poster above said they would spit on anyone who voted remain. It’s not very persuasive."
But it is the best argument most BREXITERS have.
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I've changed my mind.
I always thought of my self as being a liberal Conservative and didn't have too much time for lefties.
I'm still no Corbynistas and still believe that a lot of populist rubbish is spouted by as many on the left as on the right. However, without exception, I have not seen in this forum any coherent, sensible or well argued case for anything right of centre, especially BREXIT.
I believe you can best judge yourself by the people you choose to stand with and next to and would not want to stand with or next to a lot of the people who argue the pro BREXIT anti left argument on here.
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"I've changed my mind.
I always thought of my self as being a liberal Conservative and didn't have too much time for lefties.
I'm still no Corbynistas and still believe that a lot of populist rubbish is spouted by as many on the left as on the right. However, without exception, I have not seen in this forum any coherent, sensible or well argued case for anything right of centre, especially BREXIT.
I believe you can best judge yourself by the people you choose to stand with and next to and would not want to stand with or next to a lot of the people who argue the pro BREXIT anti left argument on here.
"
Everyone has the right to express their opinion,I doubt many of them would want to stand next to someone who can't except a democratic vote because they didn't like the result! |
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"Will I seem to recall you saying you voted leave to destroy the Tory party!That was your main objective wasn't it? Be honest!
Nope, at first my position changed during the Scottish independence campaign when it became clear that there was a rump in Scotland who did not care what damage independence did Scotland they would push it through no matter what. You can even go back through my posts during that campaign and see where I changed my mind.
Then when I saw how the pig fucker, Gideon and the Tories were willing to risk the destruction of the UK to stay in power for another term and how many of the Tories were just as fixated on leaving the EU at any price I came to the conclusion that they should be given their wish. Of course part of that wish is the breakup of the UK to secure brexit, but I am guessing that the Tories think they will be able to stop that from happening. And it my earnest desire that act will bring about the destruction of the Conservative & Unionist Party because it has been totally corrupted by 40 years of self-serving, Thatcherite neo-liberalism."
And yet one of the biggest neo-liberal organisations on the planet happens to be the EU,.....and you support it!  |
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"I've changed my mind.
I always thought of my self as being a liberal Conservative and didn't have too much time for lefties.
I'm still no Corbynistas and still believe that a lot of populist rubbish is spouted by as many on the left as on the right. However, without exception, I have not seen in this forum any coherent, sensible or well argued case for anything right of centre, especially BREXIT.
I believe you can best judge yourself by the people you choose to stand with and next to and would not want to stand with or next to a lot of the people who argue the pro BREXIT anti left argument on here.
"
Brexit is not a right of centre cause and never was. Brexit has always had cross party support, and had support from elements of many different parties during the referendum in 2016. Indeed the main support for leaving the common market in the first referendum in the 1970's came from the left lead by Tony Benn.
As for not wanting to stand with people who support Brexit, here's a quote from David Cameron during the referendum in 2016,
"When it comes to voting I don't think people will side with the likes of Nigel Farage and George Galloway".
How wrong he was! 
It seems 17.4 million people would rather stand with Farage and Galloway, than stand with the likes of Cameron, Osborne, and Blair!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've changed my mind.
I always thought of my self as being a liberal Conservative and didn't have too much time for lefties.
I'm still no Corbynistas and still believe that a lot of populist rubbish is spouted by as many on the left as on the right. However, without exception, I have not seen in this forum any coherent, sensible or well argued case for anything right of centre, especially BREXIT.
I believe you can best judge yourself by the people you choose to stand with and next to and would not want to stand with or next to a lot of the people who argue the pro BREXIT anti left argument on here.
Brexit is not a right of centre cause and never was. Brexit has always had cross party support, and had support from elements of many different parties during the referendum in 2016. Indeed the main support for leaving the common market in the first referendum in the 1970's came from the left lead by Tony Benn.
As for not wanting to stand with people who support Brexit, here's a quote from David Cameron during the referendum in 2016,
"When it comes to voting I don't think people will side with the likes of Nigel Farage and George Galloway".
How wrong he was!
It seems 17.4 million people would rather stand with Farage and Galloway, than stand with the likes of Cameron, Osborne, and Blair!
"
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hi all,
the threads on this part of the forums seem to be quite divisive. With sides forming quite quickly along "traditional" lines.
Has anyone ever read a thread here, and changed their point of view? "
Well. I find myself being drawn more to the right of centre (always been a leftist until the last 2-3 years) the more I come on this forum and other social sites.
It's not a bad thing I just find that the left has become too ideological and authoritarian in their approach - it's stifling.
In fact, it's been said that we should forget about the traditional left/right and think about things more in terms of globalist/nationalist. I'm certainly, nowadays more nationalist (that's not a buzzword for racist by the way).
So, whilst I can't say I've had my point of view changed here, my point of view has been reinforced. Not that I want to sound boxed in our closed minded as I'm always open to dialogue |
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"I've changed my mind.
I always thought of my self as being a liberal Conservative and didn't have too much time for lefties.
I'm still no Corbynistas and still believe that a lot of populist rubbish is spouted by as many on the left as on the right. However, without exception, I have not seen in this forum any coherent, sensible or well argued case for anything right of centre, especially BREXIT.
I believe you can best judge yourself by the people you choose to stand with and next to and would not want to stand with or next to a lot of the people who argue the pro BREXIT anti left argument on here.
"
I may not agree with you on many issues but I would willingly stand next to you. |
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"And yet one of the biggest neo-liberal organisations on the planet happens to be the EU,.....and you support it! "
And still you do not understand that I believe that the EU is the least worst option, you choosing to support what I consider to be the worst of all possible of all possible options. |
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