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The Brexit Challenge
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nothing will be better
the public were lied about alot of things
the NHS ? what bull
if we leave them watch all the job losses
if you think this country has had a depression then just wait till we leave and then you will understand the meaning of the word . |
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"£350million extra every week to the N.H.S."
In 2016 the UK Statistics Authority described the £350 million claim as "potentially misleading" as it didn't take into account the rebate which is applied before Britain pays its contributions to the European Union.
FullFact (the UK's Independent Fact Checking Charity) described the claim as a "clear misuse of official statistics" in September 2017. |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"£350million extra every week to the N.H.S.
In 2016 the UK Statistics Authority described the £350 million claim as "potentially misleading" as it didn't take into account the rebate which is applied before Britain pays its contributions to the European Union.
FullFact (the UK's Independent Fact Checking Charity) described the claim as a "clear misuse of official statistics" in September 2017."
mmmmm so in other words the term "potentially misleading" along with the phrase " clear misuse of official statistics" could be replaced by the word "LIE" ,,, in which case you will have to give me longer to come up with one benefit of leaving,,,,,, let's call it my transitional period |
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"nothing will be better
the public were lied about alot of things
the NHS ? what bull
if we leave them watch all the job losses
if you think this country has had a depression then just wait till we leave and then you will understand the meaning of the word ."
There's been a big depression in this country ever since the referendum result came in, you only have to look in the threads to see how many seriously depressed posters there are!  |
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By *istalloverCouple
over a year ago
Pays de la Loire -Normandie -Brittany borderFrance |
we left the Uk over 3 years ago before anyone even mentioned Brexit.
Looking at French TV . The UK government is the laughing stock of Europe spitting image type characters etc .Nobody knows exactly what will happen so trying not to worry about it.
BUT A lot of the ex pats are panicking selling up and returning . rumour mongering at its worst is happening here by scared people who do not know any better than to believe what they see on Tv.
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"nothing will be better
the public were lied about alot of things
the NHS ? what bull
if we leave them watch all the job losses
if you think this country has had a depression then just wait till we leave and then you will understand the meaning of the word .
There's been a big depression in this country ever since the referendum result came in, you only have to look in the threads to see how many seriously depressed posters there are! "
I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"we left the Uk over 3 years ago before anyone even mentioned Brexit.
Looking at French TV . The UK government is the laughing stock of Europe spitting image type characters etc .Nobody knows exactly what will happen so trying not to worry about it.
BUT A lot of the ex pats are panicking selling up and returning . rumour mongering at its worst is happening here by scared people who do not know any better than to believe what they see on Tv.
"
its the not knowing that makes it a lot worse for people and i truely do sympathise because my approach is changing....
in the last 2 weeks or so i have had the chance to speak to people in different fields to see how it may affect them...
the one that stuck with me was a lorry driver.... he explained to us in detail what it was like at the moment trying to get goods in/out of switzerland and norway... and if that is the model you want then it is actually pretty frightening...
so bringing it back to ex pats living in france for example...
FCO advise now is to talk to the french government, the french government advise at the moment is that anyone who wants to stay permamanently will likely need a "Carte de Sejour"
as part of that process people need to show they have enough earning to not rely on the state, which means they will need to get pension statements (both for those over pension and those under pension age)
so this landed on my desk at pension service because there was going to be an issue with this persons statement being issued.... so we ended up having a long chat
lovely fella, but obviously worried...and i fully understood because we are talking about peoples lives.....
so we manage to get his sorted out eventually for his appointment he will have... and it got me to thinking "well if this is just france, what is going to happen for other countries?
so i got in contact with someone at the FCO, .... again, lovely fella...
my takeaway is that the people and the depts at the tops aren't talking to each other.... and its being left to those people at the bottom to have to sort out.....
that and we are going to need way more staff to deal with all these issues because out workloads are going to go thru the roof....
but it is all theses things people don't think about... and it is all just "leave means leave" without thinking of the human consequences... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"we left the Uk over 3 years ago before anyone even mentioned Brexit.
Looking at French TV . The UK government is the laughing stock of Europe spitting image type characters etc .Nobody knows exactly what will happen so trying not to worry about it.
BUT A lot of the ex pats are panicking selling up and returning . rumour mongering at its worst is happening here by scared people who do not know any better than to believe what they see on Tv.
"
Just get yourselves brexit proofed - get a cds that will give peace of mind. Bonne chance mes amis. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up "
and bang on queue we get this answer....
all i can say is that i truely hope that you know no-one that is going to have your life changed (especially since all reports on all sides say the north-east is going to be one of the hardest hit areas) |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up
and bang on queue we get this answer....
all i can say is that i truely hope that you know no-one that is going to have your life changed (especially since all reports on all sides say the north-east is going to be one of the hardest hit areas)"
. I believe that the person who began this thread wanted someone to suggest ONE thing that would be better after brexit ...... Still waiting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits."
Very brave, I’ve tried posting similar questions on here, no one has given any credible answers. Just slogans, insults and accusations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up
and bang on queue we get this answer....
all i can say is that i truely hope that you know no-one that is going to have your life changed (especially since all reports on all sides say the north-east is going to be one of the hardest hit areas). I believe that the person who began this thread wanted someone to suggest ONE thing that would be better after brexit ...... Still waiting "
Angel of the North? |
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"nothing will be better
the public were lied about alot of things
the NHS ? what bull
if we leave them watch all the job losses
if you think this country has had a depression then just wait till we leave and then you will understand the meaning of the word .
There's been a big depression in this country ever since the referendum result came in, you only have to look in the threads to see how many seriously depressed posters there are! I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up "
But you still can't come up with even one benefit? |
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits."
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now. "
1. Immigration benefits this country
2. Overfishing will damage fish stocks.
3. Our government makes worse decisions than the EU
4. We will lose control by being forced into poorer quality trade deals
5. Foreigners are people too. And the European courts are of a similar quality and standard to ours.
These are all subjective “benefits” at best or just false.
The OP’s point still stands. |
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now.
1. Immigration benefits this country
2. Overfishing will damage fish stocks.
3. Our government makes worse decisions than the EU
4. We will lose control by being forced into poorer quality trade deals
5. Foreigners are people too. And the European courts are of a similar quality and standard to ours.
These are all subjective “benefits” at best or just false.
The OP’s point still stands."
1. Immigration does NOT benefit this country. Independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK lay out in detail why immigration is not a benefit. Even lib dem leader Vince Cable said shortly after the referendum it was debatable whether immigration gave anything positive to the UK or was at best neutral in benefits compared against downsides.
2. Who said anything about over fishing? Or are you hallucinating? Out of the EU CFP the UK will once again have control over it's own territorial fishing waters. New Smaller quotas for foreign vessels will mean bigger quotas for UK vessels without over fishing and can lead to the revival of the UK fishing industry which was sacrificed by Ted Heath in the 1970's when we joined. Fabio harps on about manufacturing and agri foods, it's a pity he doesn't show the same level of concern about the UK fishing industry which has been decimated by the EU.
3. I assume you're joking when you say the EU makes good decisions 
4. Poorer quality trade deals? Again where did i mention trade deals in my original comment? It seems you're hallucinating again.
5. My point about UK law courts stands. As a UK citizen i don't want to be ruled over by foreign judges in foreign courts. I want UK justice, with UK courts making legal judgements about this country. I see that as a benefit to leaving.
All the above are not subjective and are 'real' benefits to leaving the EU. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
"
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier! |
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"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier! "
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best. "
well actually the government actually commissioned a report into this very topic and it was only released a few weeks ago...
remember that report from the "migration advisory committee"... yep, that one!!!! 
here is a summary from the bastion of remainer-central... the financial times... oh... bugger!!!!
https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5 |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best.
well actually the government actually commissioned a report into this very topic and it was only released a few weeks ago...
remember that report from the "migration advisory committee"... yep, that one!!!!
here is a summary from the bastion of remainer-central... the financial times... oh... bugger!!!!
https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5"
and here is the full report if you feel the urge have a gander (doubt you will though).....
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migration-advisory-committee-mac-report-eea-migration |
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on Point 2
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas
A parliamentary report published in Dec 2016 has found that some 75 per cent of fish caught in the UK is exported, mostly to the European Union, while the majority of fish eaten in the UK is imported.
For this reason, it argued that trade agreements with the EU ‘will be a key factor to the future success of the UK fishing industry and fish processors’. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It is easy to say control of our borders and immigration to our country. That is too simplistic, as it would suggest that European migration is a problem.
What many are worried about is the amount of non Europeans migrating to EU nations, and then being given citizenship of those nations. Once they get that citizenship, they then get an EU passport and are granted the same rights to move around Europe as the people who are born there. This means that they can book a flight to the UK and be automatically allowed entry. It may or may not mean that they can stay here legally once here. But we all know that there are checks on people coming here, but no checks on them leaving.
Merkel’s ridiculous invitation to hundreds of thousands of “Syrians” to go and live in Germany is one of many real reasons for concern. She just threw open the door and let in a shit load of people without any proper checks.
Is it any wonder that we had such a spike in terrorism in Europe at about the same time. That shit is not about to stop any time soon... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It is easy to say control of our borders and immigration to our country. That is too simplistic, as it would suggest that European migration is a problem.
What many are worried about is the amount of non Europeans migrating to EU nations, and then being given citizenship of those nations. Once they get that citizenship, they then get an EU passport and are granted the same rights to move around Europe as the people who are born there. This means that they can book a flight to the UK and be automatically allowed entry. It may or may not mean that they can stay here legally once here. But we all know that there are checks on people coming here, but no checks on them leaving.
Merkel’s ridiculous invitation to hundreds of thousands of “Syrians” to go and live in Germany is one of many real reasons for concern. She just threw open the door and let in a shit load of people without any proper checks.
Is it any wonder that we had such a spike in terrorism in Europe at about the same time. That shit is not about to stop any time soon..."
A refugee granted asylum who has lived in Germany for six to eight years can apply for German citizenship if they fulfil a number of conditions. You need citizenship to be able to apply for a German passport |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is easy to say control of our borders and immigration to our country. That is too simplistic, as it would suggest that European migration is a problem.
What many are worried about is the amount of non Europeans migrating to EU nations, and then being given citizenship of those nations. Once they get that citizenship, they then get an EU passport and are granted the same rights to move around Europe as the people who are born there. This means that they can book a flight to the UK and be automatically allowed entry. It may or may not mean that they can stay here legally once here. But we all know that there are checks on people coming here, but no checks on them leaving.
Merkel’s ridiculous invitation to hundreds of thousands of “Syrians” to go and live in Germany is one of many real reasons for concern. She just threw open the door and let in a shit load of people without any proper checks.
Is it any wonder that we had such a spike in terrorism in Europe at about the same time. That shit is not about to stop any time soon..."
Have you looked at how valid this fear is, and also how proportional it is ?
I couldn’t hazard a guess about how many German citiizenships have been granted to Syrians. But based on 2016 data it’s less than 4500.
And biggest grantet of citizenships. The uk.
Also, how many terror attacks have been by someone granted citizenship. And more specifically how many have been done by someone being granted citizenship in a different country.
You probably have a clearer memory of this, but my feeling is there was more fear of a terror attack during the troubles than there is now. Maybe it’s because I was younger and more impressionable. But this leads me to being more worried about there being repercussions from the ireland border than from the slow burn of Syrians gaining citizenship and then coming over here. This is all just my feelings (and not why I voted either way as any fall out will be, relatively speaking, small)
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I reiterate, people will stop being little bitches moaning about it when it happens and the sky doesn't fall in and the world doesn't stop spinning, like it was meamt to as soon as the rdferendum result was made, when Articke 50 was nade etc etc.
Amazes me thd amount of people who want to see this country fail so they can say 'I told you so'. Pathetic individuals. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I reiterate, people will stop being little bitches moaning about it when it happens and the sky doesn't fall in and the world doesn't stop spinning, like it was meamt to as soon as the rdferendum result was made, when Articke 50 was nade etc etc.
Amazes me thd amount of people who want to see this country fail so they can say 'I told you so'. Pathetic individuals."
The irony is many of the reasons for brexit are likewaise chicken little fears.
I suspect no one really wants to cut their nose of here. I’m also guessing there are many who spend their day jobs (in part) trying to make the best success of brexit they can because their jobs (or pay) depends on it. Doesn’t mean they think brexit is right. Nor that the reasons some people have is valid. |
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"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier!
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best. "
MigrationwatchUK is totally biased. |
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now. "
Number 1....immigration wont be decreasing. Where people come form will change though. You dont think all those nice Aussies etc are going to give us FTAs without quid pro quo on migration do you? |
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now.
1. Immigration benefits this country
2. Overfishing will damage fish stocks.
3. Our government makes worse decisions than the EU
4. We will lose control by being forced into poorer quality trade deals
5. Foreigners are people too. And the European courts are of a similar quality and standard to ours.
These are all subjective “benefits” at best or just false.
The OP’s point still stands.
1. Immigration does NOT benefit this country. Independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK lay out in detail why immigration is not a benefit. Even lib dem leader Vince Cable said shortly after the referendum it was debatable whether immigration gave anything positive to the UK or was at best neutral in benefits compared against downsides.
2. Who said anything about over fishing? Or are you hallucinating? Out of the EU CFP the UK will once again have control over it's own territorial fishing waters. New Smaller quotas for foreign vessels will mean bigger quotas for UK vessels without over fishing and can lead to the revival of the UK fishing industry which was sacrificed by Ted Heath in the 1970's when we joined. Fabio harps on about manufacturing and agri foods, it's a pity he doesn't show the same level of concern about the UK fishing industry which has been decimated by the EU.
3. I assume you're joking when you say the EU makes good decisions
4. Poorer quality trade deals? Again where did i mention trade deals in my original comment? It seems you're hallucinating again.
5. My point about UK law courts stands. As a UK citizen i don't want to be ruled over by foreign judges in foreign courts. I want UK justice, with UK courts making legal judgements about this country. I see that as a benefit to leaving.
All the above are not subjective and are 'real' benefits to leaving the EU. "
Have you considered a career as a stand up? |
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"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier!
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best.
MigrationwatchUK is totally biased."
...and the FT isn't? LOL!  |
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now.
Number 1....immigration wont be decreasing. Where people come form will change though. You dont think all those nice Aussies etc are going to give us FTAs without quid pro quo on migration do you?"
Hate to break it to you fella but it's already decreased since the vote to leave in 2016. Time you woke up and smelt the coffee. |
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"I reiterate, people will stop being little bitches moaning about it when it happens and the sky doesn't fall in and the world doesn't stop spinning, like it was meamt to as soon as the rdferendum result was made, when Articke 50 was nade etc etc.
Amazes me thd amount of people who want to see this country fail so they can say 'I told you so'. Pathetic individuals."
I think youre confusing legitimate worries (see the pile of government papers on no deal impacts) with a wish to see it all go to shit. Anyone dim enough to ignore the risks deserves all they get |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier!
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best.
MigrationwatchUK is totally biased.
...and the FT isn't? LOL! "
look, i only chose the FT as that link because since you seem to have trouble understanding "words" at the best of times, I thought a "chart" might actually help you understand a bit better and get the message across.... |
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"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier!
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best.
MigrationwatchUK is totally biased.
...and the FT isn't? LOL! "
Who mentioned the FT? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is easy to say control of our borders and immigration to our country. That is too simplistic, as it would suggest that European migration is a problem.
What many are worried about is the amount of non Europeans migrating to EU nations, and then being given citizenship of those nations. Once they get that citizenship, they then get an EU passport and are granted the same rights to move around Europe as the people who are born there. This means that they can book a flight to the UK and be automatically allowed entry. It may or may not mean that they can stay here legally once here. But we all know that there are checks on people coming here, but no checks on them leaving.
Merkel’s ridiculous invitation to hundreds of thousands of “Syrians” to go and live in Germany is one of many real reasons for concern. She just threw open the door and let in a shit load of people without any proper checks.
Is it any wonder that we had such a spike in terrorism in Europe at about the same time. That shit is not about to stop any time soon...
Have you looked at how valid this fear is, and also how proportional it is ?
I couldn’t hazard a guess about how many German citiizenships have been granted to Syrians. But based on 2016 data it’s less than 4500.
And biggest grantet of citizenships. The uk.
Also, how many terror attacks have been by someone granted citizenship. And more specifically how many have been done by someone being granted citizenship in a different country.
You probably have a clearer memory of this, but my feeling is there was more fear of a terror attack during the troubles than there is now. Maybe it’s because I was younger and more impressionable. But this leads me to being more worried about there being repercussions from the ireland border than from the slow burn of Syrians gaining citizenship and then coming over here. This is all just my feelings (and not why I voted either way as any fall out will be, relatively speaking, small)
"
Yes there was more terrorism during the troubles. But the Irish have been trying so hard to rub along together for so long now, that I doubt they would have any desire to turn back the clock, regardless of border issues.
As for Merkel’s million, they were never properly vetted. Many were no more Syrian than I’m from Bangladesh. She just let anyone and everyone through. Damnit the horror stories of migrant men raping migrant girls in the refugee camps is horrendous. Do we really want those scumbags to come here?
But of course there will always be the apologists. The excuses pile up and the sheeple will accept just about anything and anyone. It will all end in tears, unless of course we cry enough and put a stop to it all. We cannot do that while we are still in the EU... |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"we left the Uk over 3 years ago before anyone even mentioned Brexit.
Looking at French TV . The UK government is the laughing stock of Europe spitting image type characters etc .Nobody knows exactly what will happen so trying not to worry about it.
BUT A lot of the ex pats are panicking selling up and returning . rumour mongering at its worst is happening here by scared people who do not know any better than to believe what they see on Tv.
"
I can understand why we are a laughing stock we have handled the whole thing really badly,but in the end it will all work out but sadly this nation has made a fool of itself.
I am ashamed of our polititions and the public at present.The thing is those that work in the EU will be fine and hard working Eu people working here will be fine I am sure,to much panic |
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"
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
actually....
a) EU migration, as others have said here, is actually a net positive in terms of money to the treasury....
b) EU migrations actually helps in the NHS, where those young EU workers are helping fill those GP spaces, and help in social care looking after our elderly, and filling a lot of those specilised hospital positions such as radiology...
c) EU migrants aren't taking up socialised housing, they are mainly renting from the private sector.... so your anger is misplaced, it should not be at them! it should be at those 2nd house owners or local councils who dont replenish stocks from houses they sell!
d) without EU migrants our public services would be even more stretched than they are now... case in point, social care as i mentioned earlier!
As I said independent bodies like Migrationwatch UK beg to differ and say immigration to the UK is a drain or neutral at best.
MigrationwatchUK is totally biased.
...and the FT isn't? LOL!
Who mentioned the FT?"
Fabio did, try actually reading the thread  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"nothing will be better
the public were lied about alot of things
the NHS ? what bull
if we leave them watch all the job losses
if you think this country has had a depression then just wait till we leave and then you will understand the meaning of the word .
There's been a big depression in this country ever since the referendum result came in, you only have to look in the threads to see how many seriously depressed posters there are! I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up "
Why the hell should I not continue 'remoaning' as a big part of my livelyhood is tied to us being in the single market and customs union
It'll take a hell of a good political settlement to replicate what we have now and to stop my contracts from being kept within the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"nothing will be better
the public were lied about alot of things
the NHS ? what bull
if we leave them watch all the job losses
if you think this country has had a depression then just wait till we leave and then you will understand the meaning of the word .
There's been a big depression in this country ever since the referendum result came in, you only have to look in the threads to see how many seriously depressed posters there are! I welcome the result ....what is depressing .is the way the remoaners have gone on crying about it for over two years now .its time to grow up "
So answer the question! Rather than childish name calling come up with something that will actually be better! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Can i flip thid round, can someone tell me the benefit of rejoining?"
If we are allowed to retain our membership under current conditiobs then avoiding a yawning chasm of a recession and a lost generation of growth would be a good starting point... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"See, told you its all about wealth. "
For me that's my immediate concern. I need money to put a deposit down for a house, therefore I need to maximize my labour
In terms of pragmatism, we are entering a period in time where we are about to experience technological inequality. These technologies will be disruptive. A.I, cybernetics, and bioinformatics and biotechnology. Those with money will use these to cement themselves at the top.
Regulations are needed to stop these from taking freedoms away from people, and no one country can regulate in a sovereign manner. The best bet are trade blocks, political unions, and international community acts.
I suggest listening to Sam Harris's podcast with Yuval harrari, as they discuss the ideas far better than I can |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is easy to say control of our borders and immigration to our country. That is too simplistic, as it would suggest that European migration is a problem.
What many are worried about is the amount of non Europeans migrating to EU nations, and then being given citizenship of those nations. Once they get that citizenship, they then get an EU passport and are granted the same rights to move around Europe as the people who are born there. This means that they can book a flight to the UK and be automatically allowed entry. It may or may not mean that they can stay here legally once here. But we all know that there are checks on people coming here, but no checks on them leaving.
Merkel’s ridiculous invitation to hundreds of thousands of “Syrians” to go and live in Germany is one of many real reasons for concern. She just threw open the door and let in a shit load of people without any proper checks.
Is it any wonder that we had such a spike in terrorism in Europe at about the same time. That shit is not about to stop any time soon...
Have you looked at how valid this fear is, and also how proportional it is ?
I couldn’t hazard a guess about how many German citiizenships have been granted to Syrians. But based on 2016 data it’s less than 4500.
And biggest grantet of citizenships. The uk.
Also, how many terror attacks have been by someone granted citizenship. And more specifically how many have been done by someone being granted citizenship in a different country.
You probably have a clearer memory of this, but my feeling is there was more fear of a terror attack during the troubles than there is now. Maybe it’s because I was younger and more impressionable. But this leads me to being more worried about there being repercussions from the ireland border than from the slow burn of Syrians gaining citizenship and then coming over here. This is all just my feelings (and not why I voted either way as any fall out will be, relatively speaking, small)
Yes there was more terrorism during the troubles. But the Irish have been trying so hard to rub along together for so long now, that I doubt they would have any desire to turn back the clock, regardless of border issues.
As for Merkel’s million, they were never properly vetted. Many were no more Syrian than I’m from Bangladesh. She just let anyone and everyone through. Damnit the horror stories of migrant men raping migrant girls in the refugee camps is horrendous. Do we really want those scumbags to come here?
But of course there will always be the apologists. The excuses pile up and the sheeple will accept just about anything and anyone. It will all end in tears, unless of course we cry enough and put a stop to it all. We cannot do that while we are still in the EU..."
I hope you’re right in ireland. The vitriol I see in ireland threads worry me.
However you haven’t addressed my main points in Syrians becoming citizens. Or the rate of terrirusm among those who become citizens. Your posts seem to come from a position of unsupported fear. Now you may be right ... it’s not an area I considered in detail ... but some evidence would be appreciated. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
To go back to centys post:
Given c 2/3ds migration is non EU, and the lack of willingness to address this, I fear control over Eu migration will make very little difference other than “a feeling we could”
Fishing. I concede there may be something here. Although I never understood why a small industry got the headlines it did (other than it being a wild whistle for anti Eu sentiment). I do fear there will be other counterbalancing effects on the industry tho.
Sovereignty. We can always make our own laws above and beyond the EU. Or before. We are part of the EU and can veto changes. So any Eu rulebwhich cones through we either want as law, or have played politics. Which is less a fault if the Eu but our politicians.
Money. The Eu contribution is small. Nato dictate (albeit softly) more.
Courts. I’m not sure why this is so important to some, and therefore why it’s a benefit. But if it is important then I admit it’s a benefit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To go back to centys post:
Given c 2/3ds migration is non EU, and the lack of willingness to address this, I fear control over Eu migration will make very little difference other than “a feeling we could”
Fishing. I concede there may be something here. Although I never understood why a small industry got the headlines it did (other than it being a wild whistle for anti Eu sentiment). I do fear there will be other counterbalancing effects on the industry tho.
Sovereignty. We can always make our own laws above and beyond the EU. Or before. We are part of the EU and can veto changes. So any Eu rulebwhich cones through we either want as law, or have played politics. Which is less a fault if the Eu but our politicians.
Money. The Eu contribution is small. Nato dictate (albeit softly) more.
Courts. I’m not sure why this is so important to some, and therefore why it’s a benefit. But if it is important then I admit it’s a benefit. "
But we could have regulated EU migration - since 2004 the EU rule on freedom of movement was only 90 days (never mentioned in the referendum ), it was introduced when eastern European countries joined - we didn't follow the likes of other European countries who imposed the rules! So we got a lot of migrants. |
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I'm looking forward not back ...it may be good for us as a country ...and my bizz is flying high so self self self ....but on serious note many good things may come along ..im positive ...ps watch other eu nations follow as soon as they see how we get on |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"See, told you its all about wealth.
For me that's my immediate concern. I need money to put a deposit down for a house, therefore I need to maximize my labour
In terms of pragmatism, we are entering a period in time where we are about to experience technological inequality. These technologies will be disruptive. A.I, cybernetics, and bioinformatics and biotechnology. Those with money will use these to cement themselves at the top.
Regulations are needed to stop these from taking freedoms away from people, and no one country can regulate in a sovereign manner. The best bet are trade blocks, political unions, and international community acts.
I suggest listening to Sam Harris's podcast with Yuval harrari, as they discuss the ideas far better than I can"
Yep totally agree those obsessed with brexit and leaving the EU can't see that biggest challenge for this country will be what to do with the surplus labour due to automisation which will effect 30% of the population by 2030.
|
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"Can i flip thid round, can someone tell me the benefit of rejoining?
If we are allowed to retain our membership under current conditiobs then avoiding a yawning chasm of a recession and a lost generation of growth would be a good starting point..."
Thats just it at the very least we lose our veto , however my belief is we would have to commit to joining the eurozone and schengin |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well it’s all a bit of a shit show and my view as a confirmed remainer is that unfortunately we have a divorce to deal with now which will involve as great a complexity and dare I say it more bureaucracy than staying in our marriage to the eu. We now have years of battling our ex partners for custody of this or that and paying maintenance or a huge lump sum to add to the national debt, and don’t even get me started on visiting rights! I could extend this analogy to include pride, wanting to be young free and single but I think you can all probably see where it’s heading. Basically I suppose you are either family oriented and believe in the greater good of the eu or you think all your extended family are arseholes and you want to be top dog on this tiny island. It doesn’t really matter to me but let’s bring on the cheap bar room digs that most brexiteers seem to believe is discussion rather than actually having any real arguments or facts that stand up to scrutiny. Yep I am a liberal minded left leaning remainer and that’s probably got a lot to do with all the work and travel I have undertaken while travelling all over the eu and the rest of the world I know in my heart that restricting freedom of movement and trade with the eu is going to cost us all dearly both here and within the remaining 27 states.
Don’t get me wrong though as I am not saying that one day we might rise Phoenix like from the ashes but the firestorm is going to burn a lot of people, not least of all my children who are all starting out on their career paths. What the brexiteers seem to be saying is that it will all be ok in the end because the eu will need us as a market and because it will also begin to fall apart once we have left - so does that mean that the only real reason for brexit is in order to punish Johnny Foreigner then? I’m really not convinced that will work and in the meantime I fear greatly for the areas of the Uk that currently are supported by the EU (Cornwall and Wales to name two) as our London centric parliament are very unlikely to carry on handing out cash to these areas. The jingoistic optimism of the brexiteers appals me but then maybe they know something I don’t or perhaps they just have a pocket full of magic beans which will sort everything out? Peace and love peeps. |
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The real brexit challenge is how are we going to make our way in the world outside the EU?
Before anyone says I am not being positive it should be noted that the countries we are hoping to do trade deals with to replace the contracts we will certainly loose as a result of leaving the EU have just blocked our ability to bid on £1.5 TRILLION of WTO contracts, and this does not bode well for the post brexit economy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The real brexit challenge is how are we going to make our way in the world outside the EU?
Before anyone says I am not being positive it should be noted that the countries we are hoping to do trade deals with to replace the contracts we will certainly loose as a result of leaving the EU have just blocked our ability to bid on £1.5 TRILLION of WTO contracts, and this does not bode well for the post brexit economy."
Not heard about this - please explain? |
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"
Not heard about this - please explain? "
The U.S., New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Ukraine, Israel and Moldova have all blocked Britain’s post-Brexit entry into the World Trade Organization’s Government Procurement Agreement, a market worth $1.7 Trillion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And will be effectively for at least another 2 years during the transition period so subject to it's rules and regulations and restrictions on trading outside the block.
unless................. Ho hum, here we go again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes because we still part of the eu at present ..."
So based on that logic - when we leave we are a member of nothing?
Only once we have left will we then be able to Submit an application to join - What happens to WTO trading whilst we are in "limbo" - "war of the jungle" rules? Oh and what if someone still objects once we have left? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Yes because we still part of the eu at present ..."
so if that is the excuse... what excuse do you have for those same countries plus argentina all rejecting the WTO tariff schedule the UK suggested for trade post them leaving the EU........ |
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"we left the Uk over 3 years ago before anyone even mentioned Brexit.
Looking at French TV . The UK government is the laughing stock of Europe spitting image type characters etc .Nobody knows exactly what will happen so trying not to worry about it.
BUT A lot of the ex pats are panicking selling up and returning . rumour mongering at its worst is happening here by scared people who do not know any better than to believe what they see on Tv.
its the not knowing that makes it a lot worse for people and i truely do sympathise because my approach is changing....
in the last 2 weeks or so i have had the chance to speak to people in different fields to see how it may affect them...
the one that stuck with me was a lorry driver.... he explained to us in detail what it was like at the moment trying to get goods in/out of switzerland and norway... and if that is the model you want then it is actually pretty frightening...
so bringing it back to ex pats living in france for example...
FCO advise now is to talk to the french government, the french government advise at the moment is that anyone who wants to stay permamanently will likely need a "Carte de Sejour"
as part of that process people need to show they have enough earning to not rely on the state, which means they will need to get pension statements (both for those over pension and those under pension age)
so this landed on my desk at pension service because there was going to be an issue with this persons statement being issued.... so we ended up having a long chat
lovely fella, but obviously worried...and i fully understood because we are talking about peoples lives.....
so we manage to get his sorted out eventually for his appointment he will have... and it got me to thinking "well if this is just france, what is going to happen for other countries?
so i got in contact with someone at the FCO, .... again, lovely fella...
my takeaway is that the people and the depts at the tops aren't talking to each other.... and its being left to those people at the bottom to have to sort out.....
that and we are going to need way more staff to deal with all these issues because out workloads are going to go thru the roof....
but it is all theses things people don't think about... and it is all just "leave means leave" without thinking of the human consequences..."
 Plus the cost to the UK taxpayer to have to deal with and manage it.
As for the £350 million to be saved and paid to the NHS - which we know was a lie, Brexit was costing us £500m a week last month and the cost is going up  We've lost before there's even anyone that understands what leave will mean (answer, 'leave means leave', doesn't apply).
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Has anyone considered the "race to the bottom" scenario?
If the UK takes a downturn because of Brexit, then this will impact on other economies as well.
The UK and the rest of the world cannot immediately realign their economies to a "don't deal with the UK" standing as trade and economies simply do not work like that.
The impact is not in the short term however the UK is always going to be a market worth cultivating. |
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The ridiculous tragedy of all of this is that it was just the Conservative party who created this mess, all for their own ends. Not for you or I, nor business.
They wanted to win an election and keep their party intact and needed to pull votes from UKIP, so put the referendum into their manifesto. As we know, many, if not most manifesto pledges are not followed through with - but unluckily for the UK, this on was.
Since the result, the Conservatives have continued their internal combustion, triggering Article 50 before they'd taken clear decisions on things that would prevent the UK leaving the EU, like the Northern Ireland/Irish Republic border. As they didn't have a clue, nor a plan, the whole brexit negotiations are over the deadlines to be on target. Even without that key point having been agreed - as it could have been before Article 50 was triggered - they've insisted on displaying their incompetence at every point, due to their internal conflicts. And despite their insistence that sovereignty was of the utmost importance, they've not engaged parliament. And they seem to still not want to engage parliament once - if - an exit agreement has been reached, as their vote will have extremely limited effect. It's just been one Conservative party imposed clusterfuck all along, to try to ensure that the Conservative party retains its power. You're paying for that and - like the fabled payments to the EU - you will continue to pay for this for the rest of your life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The ridiculous tragedy of all of this is that it was just the Conservative party who created this mess, all for their own ends. Not for you or I, nor business.
They wanted to win an election and keep their party intact and needed to pull votes from UKIP, so put the referendum into their manifesto. As we know, many, if not most manifesto pledges are not followed through with - but unluckily for the UK, this on was.
Since the result, the Conservatives have continued their internal combustion, triggering Article 50 before they'd taken clear decisions on things that would prevent the UK leaving the EU, like the Northern Ireland/Irish Republic border. As they didn't have a clue, nor a plan, the whole brexit negotiations are over the deadlines to be on target. Even without that key point having been agreed - as it could have been before Article 50 was triggered - they've insisted on displaying their incompetence at every point, due to their internal conflicts. And despite their insistence that sovereignty was of the utmost importance, they've not engaged parliament. And they seem to still not want to engage parliament once - if - an exit agreement has been reached, as their vote will have extremely limited effect. It's just been one Conservative party imposed clusterfuck all along, to try to ensure that the Conservative party retains its power. You're paying for that and - like the fabled payments to the EU - you will continue to pay for this for the rest of your life. "
This |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The ridiculous tragedy of all of this is that it was just the Conservative party who created this mess, all for their own ends. Not for you or I, nor business.
They wanted to win an election and keep their party intact and needed to pull votes from UKIP, so put the referendum into their manifesto. As we know, many, if not most manifesto pledges are not followed through with - but unluckily for the UK, this on was.
Since the result, the Conservatives have continued their internal combustion, triggering Article 50 before they'd taken clear decisions on things that would prevent the UK leaving the EU, like the Northern Ireland/Irish Republic border. As they didn't have a clue, nor a plan, the whole brexit negotiations are over the deadlines to be on target. Even without that key point having been agreed - as it could have been before Article 50 was triggered - they've insisted on displaying their incompetence at every point, due to their internal conflicts. And despite their insistence that sovereignty was of the utmost importance, they've not engaged parliament. And they seem to still not want to engage parliament once - if - an exit agreement has been reached, as their vote will have extremely limited effect. It's just been one Conservative party imposed clusterfuck all along, to try to ensure that the Conservative party retains its power. You're paying for that and - like the fabled payments to the EU - you will continue to pay for this for the rest of your life.
This "
Partly agree. But as you say it was to grab votes back from UKIP who are almost a single policy party. Therefore one may argue people had voted by their feet. And own any also argue given the result there was a public desire to do this which they simply allowed to be voiced. They do what win votes. But this means there needs to be votes to be won. They may have given us the electorate the gun. But we the electorate were demanding the right to bear arms. And we the electorate pulled the trigger. |
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I think that the vote was in defiance of the establishment.
People have had enough of politicians telling us what we should be doing when on a day to day basis, while things never seem to improve.
This would be true for parties of all colours and most have had enough, so instead of voting positively, people err to the anti vote.
I actually believe that after all this, if there was another vote on Brexit with no deal, there may just be a silent majority that go for it as another slap in the face for the establishment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Having just read an article about a high profile leaver I am disappointed in his actions. I thought leave was about "taking back control" make "Britain great again" "Global Britain" etc etc.
So reading that James Dyson is going to build his elecric cars in .... Singapore. That tiny little state in Asia which apparently is not cheap to do business especially for car manufacturing as land is limited.
The reason for building there - access to engineers, good supply chains and markets! Nothing to do with brexit - But we are out in 160 days!!!
Investment is said to be £2bn - although he does invest £200m - a fraction in the UK. Well thank you Mr Dyson for backing Britain, for creating jobs and wealth in our country when we could do with a little bit of help. If everybody else does the same then we are "well and truly fucked"! |
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"I think that the vote was in defiance of the establishment.
People have had enough of politicians telling us what we should be doing when on a day to day basis, while things never seem to improve.
This would be true for parties of all colours and most have had enough, so instead of voting positively, people err to the anti vote.
I actually believe that after all this, if there was another vote on Brexit with no deal, there may just be a silent majority that go for it as another slap in the face for the establishment."
We have a long tradition of self inflicting wounds.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Having just read an article about a high profile leaver I am disappointed in his actions. I thought leave was about "taking back control" make "Britain great again" "Global Britain" etc etc.
So reading that James Dyson is going to build his elecric cars in .... Singapore. That tiny little state in Asia which apparently is not cheap to do business especially for car manufacturing as land is limited.
The reason for building there - access to engineers, good supply chains and markets! Nothing to do with brexit - But we are out in 160 days!!!
Investment is said to be £2bn - although he does invest £200m - a fraction in the UK. Well thank you Mr Dyson for backing Britain, for creating jobs and wealth in our country when we could do with a little bit of help. If everybody else does the same then we are "well and truly fucked"!"
He left, get over it |
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"The ridiculous tragedy of all of this is that it was just the Conservative party who created this mess, all for their own ends. Not for you or I, nor business.
They wanted to win an election and keep their party intact and needed to pull votes from UKIP, so put the referendum into their manifesto. As we know, many, if not most manifesto pledges are not followed through with - but unluckily for the UK, this on was.
Since the result, the Conservatives have continued their internal combustion, triggering Article 50 before they'd taken clear decisions on things that would prevent the UK leaving the EU, like the Northern Ireland/Irish Republic border. As they didn't have a clue, nor a plan, the whole brexit negotiations are over the deadlines to be on target. Even without that key point having been agreed - as it could have been before Article 50 was triggered - they've insisted on displaying their incompetence at every point, due to their internal conflicts. And despite their insistence that sovereignty was of the utmost importance, they've not engaged parliament. And they seem to still not want to engage parliament once - if - an exit agreement has been reached, as their vote will have extremely limited effect. It's just been one Conservative party imposed clusterfuck all along, to try to ensure that the Conservative party retains its power. You're paying for that and - like the fabled payments to the EU - you will continue to pay for this for the rest of your life. "
This..
And some have fallen for it hook line and sinker, scraps from their masters table and doffing caps in deference as those who orchestrated it wrap themselves up in a blanket of protection for what may happen.. |
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"Got to laugh at the people who thinking they are "sticking it to the establishment"
Fucking sheep "
As easily led as those who simply blindly follow the establishment perhaps?
Of course the Irish will be the largest losers outside of the UK so I do understand your viewpoint. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Got to laugh at the people who thinking they are "sticking it to the establishment"
Fucking sheep
As easily led as those who simply blindly follow the establishment perhaps?
Of course the Irish will be the largest losers outside of the UK so I do understand your viewpoint. "
You can be anti-eatablishment and still think criticise the sheeple that fell for Brexit (i don't think it's a masterminded evil scheme either - just an epic calamity). |
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"Got to laugh at the people who thinking they are "sticking it to the establishment"
Fucking sheep
As easily led as those who simply blindly follow the establishment perhaps?
Of course the Irish will be the largest losers outside of the UK so I do understand your viewpoint.
You can be anti-eatablishment and still think criticise the sheeple that fell for Brexit (i don't think it's a masterminded evil scheme either - just an epic calamity)."
....or you could equally argue that the shheple followed the pro EU line.
There is no right or wrong....simply 50 shades of lies on each side. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Got to laugh at the people who thinking they are "sticking it to the establishment"
Fucking sheep
As easily led as those who simply blindly follow the establishment perhaps?
Of course the Irish will be the largest losers outside of the UK so I do understand your viewpoint.
You can be anti-eatablishment and still think criticise the sheeple that fell for Brexit (i don't think it's a masterminded evil scheme either - just an epic calamity).
....or you could equally argue that the shheple followed the pro EU line.
There is no right or wrong....simply 50 shades of lies on each side."
if you’ve considered the merits and faults on either side then you’re not a sheeple. But if you decide your vote before even looking at the arguments (as often is the case in GE) or your vote has nothing to do with the question in hand, then I start to fear you are “wrong” or at least misguided. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now.
Number 1....immigration wont be decreasing. Where people come form will change though. You dont think all those nice Aussies etc are going to give us FTAs without quid pro quo on migration do you?"
India have already stated they want easier access - turn the clock back to the 60's - same problem just different circumstances! |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"One specific thing that would be better post Brexit. No sloganeering please. Specifics. The Brexit position is held so passionately: it MUST be replete with benefits.
1. Reduced immigration levels which I see as a benefit, putting less pressure on housing, hospitals, GP's, schools and other over stretched public services.
2. A better deal for our fishermen outside of the CFP they can have bigger quotas.
3. Sovereignty returned to Parliament which means we can make more of our own decisions in our own best interest as a country rather than having them decided at an EU level in Brussels.
4. More control over our own money which we spend how we see fit as a country on our own priorities, (instead of it being spent at EU level in Brussels on Brussels priorities).
5. Our own domestic law courts having supremacy in the UK again, instead of being ruled over by foreign courts with foreign judges like the European Court of justice.
I could go on all day with benefits for leaving but that will do for now.
Number 1....immigration wont be decreasing. Where people come form will change though. You dont think all those nice Aussies etc are going to give us FTAs without quid pro quo on migration do you?
India have already stated they want easier access - turn the clock back to the 60's - same problem just different circumstances! "
Well they already said that after May's disastrous trade mission to India shortly after the referendum. That should have been a warning sign to more people.
-Matt |
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"Got to laugh at the people who thinking they are "sticking it to the establishment"
Fucking sheep
As easily led as those who simply blindly follow the establishment perhaps?
Of course the Irish will be the largest losers outside of the UK so I do understand your viewpoint.
You can be anti-eatablishment and still think criticise the sheeple that fell for Brexit (i don't think it's a masterminded evil scheme either - just an epic calamity).
....or you could equally argue that the shheple followed the pro EU line.
There is no right or wrong....simply 50 shades of lies on each side.if you’ve considered the merits and faults on either side then you’re not a sheeple. But if you decide your vote before even looking at the arguments (as often is the case in GE) or your vote has nothing to do with the question in hand, then I start to fear you are “wrong” or at least misguided. "
Totally agree.....if you voted remain because it was the "comfortable" thing to do, or for leave for a misguided immigration issue, then sheeple is a realistic phrase. But no one should be castigated for considering as many issues as possible and coming out on balance supporting one particular side.
Anyone who says there is a cut and dried case without consideration of the other side is simplifying a very complex argument. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Got to laugh at the people who thinking they are "sticking it to the establishment"
Fucking sheep
As easily led as those who simply blindly follow the establishment perhaps?
Of course the Irish will be the largest losers outside of the UK so I do understand your viewpoint.
You can be anti-eatablishment and still think criticise the sheeple that fell for Brexit (i don't think it's a masterminded evil scheme either - just an epic calamity).
....or you could equally argue that the shheple followed the pro EU line.
There is no right or wrong....simply 50 shades of lies on each side.if you’ve considered the merits and faults on either side then you’re not a sheeple. But if you decide your vote before even looking at the arguments (as often is the case in GE) or your vote has nothing to do with the question in hand, then I start to fear you are “wrong” or at least misguided.
Totally agree.....if you voted remain because it was the "comfortable" thing to do, or for leave for a misguided immigration issue, then sheeple is a realistic phrase. But no one should be castigated for considering as many issues as possible and coming out on balance supporting one particular side.
Anyone who says there is a cut and dried case without consideration of the other side is simplifying a very complex argument."
True...but it's almost objectively impossible for anyone to reason their way into thinking that Brexit (without a plan) is a good idea.
The evidence has been stark from day one that it's not.
The human brain has a remarkable ability to lie to itself and rationalise poor emotional decisions.
This forum since 2016 is a case study in that. Banks wouldn't leave, the EU were "quaking in their boots", the FTSE was going to the moon, trump was going to extend a hefty olive branch of support, severe complications such as the Irish border and aviation were confronted with a shoulder shrugging "just stop whining and get behind it"....all wrong looking back. |
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I'm glad to see there is massive cross party support for a peoples' vote to accept any deal or simply stay within current arrangements. Surely this is reasonable for all sides? The referendum contained no detail: simply a binary decision on a fabulously complicated issue. When, or if, we have a deal, that could merit a yay or nay decision. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I'm glad to see there is massive cross party support for a peoples' vote to accept any deal or simply stay within current arrangements. Surely this is reasonable for all sides? The referendum contained no detail: simply a binary decision on a fabulously complicated issue. When, or if, we have a deal, that could merit a yay or nay decision."
A referendum on something that is not in the control of the Government to deliver is asking for trouble.
The only outcome in the control of the UK Government is to exit the EU with no arrangements in place.
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I do not think that I’ve heard any evidence that reverting to the status qo ante is a plausible option? For it to be so would require the agreement of the EU, including I think, every individual member. This to me seems an improbable hope- our rebate is not popular, for example, and not every member is happy with our other opt- outs. The more likely possible option would be “ to seek approval to a withdrawal of our notice to leave”, with the actual terms attached to such approval to be subject to negotiations. Not, I suggest, nearly as attractive a proposal as simply junking the whole thing probably is to many. |
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"I do not think that I’ve heard any evidence that reverting to the status qo ante is a plausible option? For it to be so would require the agreement of the EU, including I think, every individual member. This to me seems an improbable hope- our rebate is not popular, for example, and not every member is happy with our other opt- outs. The more likely possible option would be “ to seek approval to a withdrawal of our notice to leave”, with the actual terms attached to such approval to be subject to negotiations. Not, I suggest, nearly as attractive a proposal as simply junking the whole thing probably is to many."
Thr legal advice is that Article 50 can be withdrawn right up to the moment we actually leave at 23;00 on 29 March 2019. We don't need the consent or agreement of anyone.
So there are two options that are in our control; leave with no deal or remain as we are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I suspect you can get legal views either way. Article 50 wasn’t exactly written in a great way to leave, let alone uturn.
My guess is each campmwill find a legal beagle to support their overall brexit aims. Leaves will want to show a locked door. Remainers a revolving door. |
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Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ."
Not an expert but doesn't it require all 27 to agree to allow us to stay? The big question is would they? No doubt the experts will confirm the position! |
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"I do not think that I’ve heard any evidence that reverting to the status qo ante is a plausible option? For it to be so would require the agreement of the EU, including I think, every individual member. This to me seems an improbable hope- our rebate is not popular, for example, and not every member is happy with our other opt- outs. The more likely possible option would be “ to seek approval to a withdrawal of our notice to leave”, with the actual terms attached to such approval to be subject to negotiations. Not, I suggest, nearly as attractive a proposal as simply junking the whole thing probably is to many."
It won't happen because
1. There is no mandate to do so without another referendum which will not be possible before the deadline.
2. It will not be possible as there is not enough time to pass the relevant legislation without the backing of parliament. It is clear that this would take months to propose (and nobody has yet proposed draft legislation). It would need time allocated to pass through each stage within days and then it would require a reasonable amount of time for a campaign and vote.
3. To back such legislation would be electorally dangerous for the government and to an extent the Labour party.
What the EU would make of this would be interesting. To naively believe that the EU would simply say "that is nice" should be tempered by their necessity to not allow this to happen again, whether in the UK or among any of the 27. Now that may lrad to a loss of freedom or sovereignty. |
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I noticed some of the benefits claimed could be indicative of people wanting to harm or deceive themselves -
The UK government failed to invest in the infrastructure needed to support the population here ! Homes, hospitals, schools etc. They still won't magically Br there if the UK leaves. And EU citizens won't automatically leave the UK to free up resources - not to mention that immigrants will come from other places to take jobs and will drill need to live somewhere and use UK services.
Your health is being damaged and thousands have lost their lives each year due to UK air pollution running at dangerous levels. Reading this - you were luckily not killed. The European courts have forced your government to address this, albeit they have tried not to. You are signing your ability to remain alive by thinking it's a benefit to be free of our European courts.
The UK government has extremists in it who are happy to remove the controls and benefits that enrichh your life and some unhinged cognitively-challenged types think they are in luck, reading their drivel.
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A quick google shows we are 80th in terms of air pollution in the latest figures. Not great really- mid table- but marginally better than many EU countries , including France and Spain. Surprising, given relative population densities, I see no reason to think that membership of the EU will have any effect , one way or the other, on this.
All countries need to do more probably though I’m not as concerned on this specific issue as some- life expectancy continues in any long term analyses, to improve. In general I have rather greater confidence in the sensitivity of government in responding to public expectations and needs , the more local that government is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well we are going to get hydrogen trains - save the infrastructure involved with electrification. The only problem is that they are being built in ? - yep Germany! Wonder what the tarrifs will be on them? But at least it's green! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Well we are going to get hydrogen trains - save the infrastructure involved with electrification. The only problem is that they are being built in ? - yep Germany! Wonder what the tarrifs will be on them? But at least it's green!"
Probably a smart move by the government saying they will buy the German trains.More pressure from German buissness not to impose trade tariffs on GB.
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Well in the absence of any agreements it would be entirely up to our government to determine any tariffs. Within of course the world trade rules.
I don’t think anyone imagines we would cease trading with Germany or avoid buying their manufactures, if they were the most competitive in terms of price and quality. It is a pity of course that much of our traditional manufacturing base has declined, though this too can be overstated - the value of our manufactures has never been higher, though , as with all developed countries, the number of people involved has reduced substantially as a proportion of the whole.
I am an admirer of the way Germany has supported its small and medium manufacturing sector, as well as its larger companies. It has also been able to influence how the EU operates to the benefit of its own economy in ways we have been unable to do ( I leave aside whether that is our own fault or not).
However , while we are naturally preoccupied with Brexit, the inherent problem of the EU remains - and is more likely to be exposed by Italy than ourselves. That is, that it cannot remain in its current transitional state for good- it must either progress to Federalism, or revert to an economic bloc of independent nation states. This half way house is unstable and crisis will follow crisis until one occurs which cannot be resolved with bodges and compromises. Greece came close, but Italy is far more challenging. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Well we are going to get hydrogen trains - save the infrastructure involved with electrification. The only problem is that they are being built in ? - yep Germany! Wonder what the tarrifs will be on them? But at least it's green!"
Not true at all.
A hydrogen powered train is being tested in Germany but that's as far as it goes.
The UK's plans for hydrogen trains is to convert existing railstock. French company Alstom are the prime leaders on this contract, but the work will be carried out at their plant in Widnes. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
Well in the absence of any agreements it would be entirely up to our government to determine any tariffs. Within of course the world trade rules.
"
No it wouldn’t. We have no control over import tarrifs others levy on goods we export to them.
-Matt |
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The question was what tariffs would apply to imports. That is for the importing country , in this case, us, to determine . Just as other countries , or trading blocs such as the EU will determine what tariffs to impose on our exports to them. All within world trade rules. |
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"The question was what tariffs would apply to imports. That is for the importing country , in this case, us, to determine . Just as other countries , or trading blocs such as the EU will determine what tariffs to impose on our exports to them. All within world trade rules."
Well that's not true either. Under WTO terms you have to set the same terms of trade and tariffs for everyone unless you have a recognised FTA in force. So we will be able to decide what tariff we charge for automobiles but it would have to be the same tariff for France, Germany, Japan, India, China, USA etc.
Of course that's assuming we actually get accepted back into the WTO. Currently Moldova, Ukraine, Russia, USA, New Zealand, Israel and some others are blocking our readmission.
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"I do not think that I’ve heard any evidence that reverting to the status qo ante is a plausible option? For it to be so would require the agreement of the EU, including I think, every individual member. This to me seems an improbable hope- our rebate is not popular, for example, and not every member is happy with our other opt- outs. The more likely possible option would be “ to seek approval to a withdrawal of our notice to leave”, with the actual terms attached to such approval to be subject to negotiations. Not, I suggest, nearly as attractive a proposal as simply junking the whole thing probably is to many.
It won't happen because
1. There is no mandate to do so without another referendum which will not be possible before the deadline.
"
The EU has already said that it would extend the article 50 process if we required it for a general election or referendum.
"
2. It will not be possible as there is not enough time to pass the relevant legislation without the backing of parliament. It is clear that this would take months to propose (and nobody has yet proposed draft legislation). It would need time allocated to pass through each stage within days and then it would require a reasonable amount of time for a campaign and vote.
"
It could be done in 4 to 6 months. 2 to 3 months to put the legislation in place and 10 weeks of campaign.
"
3. To back such legislation would be electorally dangerous for the government and to an extent the Labour party.
"
If BREXIT goes ahead, especially a no deal BREXIT, and it's only 1/10th as bad as some predict, it will be even more electorally dangerous for both.
"
What the EU would make of this would be interesting. To naively believe that the EU would simply say "that is nice" should be tempered by their necessity to not allow this to happen again, whether in the UK or among any of the 27. Now that may lrad to a loss of freedom or sovereignty."
What the EU think about this will probably be "Thank God they've come to their sences". What we or they do to avoid this happening again is a discussion for another day.
The reality is is that, if there is a will, there is always both time and away. |
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ."
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well we are going to get hydrogen trains - save the infrastructure involved with electrification. The only problem is that they are being built in ? - yep Germany! Wonder what the tarrifs will be on them? But at least it's green!
Not true at all.
A hydrogen powered train is being tested in Germany but that's as far as it goes.
The UK's plans for hydrogen trains is to convert existing railstock. French company Alstom are the prime leaders on this contract, but the work will be carried out at their plant in Widnes."
Just saw it on tv but hey they said made in Germany. |
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU. "
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Well we are going to get hydrogen trains - save the infrastructure involved with electrification. The only problem is that they are being built in ? - yep Germany! Wonder what the tarrifs will be on them? But at least it's green!
Not true at all.
A hydrogen powered train is being tested in Germany but that's as far as it goes.
The UK's plans for hydrogen trains is to convert existing railstock. French company Alstom are the prime leaders on this contract, but the work will be carried out at their plant in Widnes.
Just saw it on tv but hey they said made in Germany. "
It is French. We can't have it on trial here, as it won't fit our loading gauge. |
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU. "
Sovereignty remaining with the UK people, including parliament, ensures that parliament has the power to ensure that any exit agreement is the right decision, on behalf of the UK citizens. |
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU.
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact."
LOL! You really think that's going to happen? You seem to be forgetting that the Conservative party also made manifesto commitments to leave the EU at the last general election. If you think the EU withdrawal bill will be repealed then you really are living in a fantasy land. |
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU.
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact.
LOL! You really think that's going to happen? You seem to be forgetting that the Conservative party also made manifesto commitments to leave the EU at the last general election. If you think the EU withdrawal bill will be repealed then you really are living in a fantasy land. "
Also as further proof that we really are leaving, the remain chancellor Philip Hammond has commissioned a commemorative Brexit coin to mark our exit from the EU in March next year. The Chancellor of the exchequer has approved the design of a special commemorative Brexit 50p coin, and has instructed the Royal mint to start making the Brexit coins. The Queen has also been consulted on this and given her approval as the coin features her head on it. Even for a remainer like Philip Hammond to go ahead and commission something like this must tell the most ardent swivel eyed euro loon remainer that we really are leaving the EU in March 2019. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU.
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact.
LOL! You really think that's going to happen? You seem to be forgetting that the Conservative party also made manifesto commitments to leave the EU at the last general election. If you think the EU withdrawal bill will be repealed then you really are living in a fantasy land.
Also as further proof that we really are leaving, the remain chancellor Philip Hammond has commissioned a commemorative Brexit coin to mark our exit from the EU in March next year. The Chancellor of the exchequer has approved the design of a special commemorative Brexit 50p coin, and has instructed the Royal mint to start making the Brexit coins. The Queen has also been consulted on this and given her approval as the coin features her head on it. Even for a remainer like Philip Hammond to go ahead and commission something like this must tell the most ardent swivel eyed euro loon remainer that we really are leaving the EU in March 2019. "
50p. About what our pound will be worth as our economy circles the drain lol.
They couldn’t even do a commemorative pound? You know, the unit of our currency?
Blue passports
Commemorative 50p
A Brexit festival
Awesome.
-Matt |
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU.
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact.
LOL! You really think that's going to happen? You seem to be forgetting that the Conservative party also made manifesto commitments to leave the EU at the last general election. If you think the EU withdrawal bill will be repealed then you really are living in a fantasy land.
Also as further proof that we really are leaving, the remain chancellor Philip Hammond has commissioned a commemorative Brexit coin to mark our exit from the EU in March next year. The Chancellor of the exchequer has approved the design of a special commemorative Brexit 50p coin, and has instructed the Royal mint to start making the Brexit coins. The Queen has also been consulted on this and given her approval as the coin features her head on it. Even for a remainer like Philip Hammond to go ahead and commission something like this must tell the most ardent swivel eyed euro loon remainer that we really are leaving the EU in March 2019.
50p. About what our pound will be worth as our economy circles the drain lol.
They couldn’t even do a commemorative pound? You know, the unit of our currency?
Blue passports
Commemorative 50p
A Brexit festival
Awesome.
-Matt"
Economy circling the drain? That's funny as uk growth was revised up from 1.3% to 1.6% in the budget today, but hey why let facts like that get in the way of a remoaning rant? And I expect you'll absolutely flip with rage anytime someone gives you a commemorative Brexit 50p as change in the shops after Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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it is odd .... surely the kids who want hard brexcrement would prefer to go back to having 240 pence in the pound and a comemorative three farthing brexcrement coin .... minted in uk passport blue of course |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
Actually, it is really bizarre that a 50p coin has been chosen - it being half the value of the official currency of the country. Can’t help but wonder if this really is the right thing to do, it seems to be fraught with the potential for ridicule. Maybe someone at the Treasury wants their name to go down in history over this. |
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"It is odd that a .50 pence piece has been chosen to "commemorate Brexit "
Why is it odd? The 50p has been chosen to commemorate other events in the past such as the world cup, and the D Day landings so considering that it's really not odd at all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU.
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact.
LOL! You really think that's going to happen? You seem to be forgetting that the Conservative party also made manifesto commitments to leave the EU at the last general election. If you think the EU withdrawal bill will be repealed then you really are living in a fantasy land.
Also as further proof that we really are leaving, the remain chancellor Philip Hammond has commissioned a commemorative Brexit coin to mark our exit from the EU in March next year. The Chancellor of the exchequer has approved the design of a special commemorative Brexit 50p coin, and has instructed the Royal mint to start making the Brexit coins. The Queen has also been consulted on this and given her approval as the coin features her head on it. Even for a remainer like Philip Hammond to go ahead and commission something like this must tell the most ardent swivel eyed euro loon remainer that we really are leaving the EU in March 2019.
50p. About what our pound will be worth as our economy circles the drain lol.
They couldn’t even do a commemorative pound? You know, the unit of our currency?
Blue passports
Commemorative 50p
A Brexit festival
Awesome.
-Matt"
Finally some concrete positives from Brexit.
Of course I jest.
Would be great if everyone who voted remain could keep our burgundy passports and our free travel around Europe and everyone who voted leave can get a blue one and we can all laugh at them queueing, applying for visas or whatever the fuck will happen.
Is the Brexit festival still happening? Worse festival of all time. Whose playing it! Bernard Manning is dead, Jim Davidson is retired, I can’t think of any bands that would want to play it!
And 50 fucking P Brexit special! Just add to the national embarrassment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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don't knock it .... when the brexcrement have dragged the country back to 1973 in april next year, 50 pence will represent the above average hourly wage |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is odd that a .50 pence piece has been chosen to "commemorate Brexit
Why is it odd? The 50p has been chosen to commemorate other events in the past such as the world cup, and the D Day landings so considering that it's really not odd at all. "
I think it's odd because Brexit is supposedly about "taking back control" , "regaining our lost sovereignty" , "making the UK a global business" , "striking our own trade deals" , "becoming a more prosperous nation", yet celebrate it with half a fucking quid.
A £2 coin or even better a £5 coin, or £20 note gives it real bite , a larger denomination to celebrate, but 50p .... it's not really thinking big unless.... the Government is thinking most Brit's will only have fucking .50p as their biggest denomination in their pockets after Brexit |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What does .50p buy you now a days, not much, next to fuck all but if it does it's probably crap.
Is that what Brexits going to give us ?
I just think .50p to celebrate such a huge change of course for the Country is taking the piss really. |
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"It is odd that a .50 pence piece has been chosen to "commemorate Brexit
Why is it odd? The 50p has been chosen to commemorate other events in the past such as the world cup, and the D Day landings so considering that it's really not odd at all. "
You didnt mention the 1998 25yrs of the EU 50p coin.... |
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"It is odd that a .50 pence piece has been chosen to "commemorate Brexit "
Not really. There are quite a few including a number of designs for the 2012 Olympics, a Jemima Puddle-Duck one from 2016 and many more.
|
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"Right, having had a look at the position it is actually still unclear. There are different legal opinions , and presumably any challenge ( should the Government / Parliament seek to withdraw its declaration under section 50) would have to be resolved by the ECJ.
Regardless of the legal uncertainty over withdrawing article 50 or not, it is now written into UK law to leave the EU. It's in the EU withdrawal bill which passed by majority in the house of commons and has now been given royal ascent by the Queen. So it is now written into UK law that we will leave the EU.
And it can be repealed very quickly. In a day in fact.
LOL! You really think that's going to happen? You seem to be forgetting that the Conservative party also made manifesto commitments to leave the EU at the last general election. If you think the EU withdrawal bill will be repealed then you really are living in a fantasy land.
Also as further proof that we really are leaving, the remain chancellor Philip Hammond has commissioned a commemorative Brexit coin to mark our exit from the EU in March next year. The Chancellor of the exchequer has approved the design of a special commemorative Brexit 50p coin, and has instructed the Royal mint to start making the Brexit coins. The Queen has also been consulted on this and given her approval as the coin features her head on it. Even for a remainer like Philip Hammond to go ahead and commission something like this must tell the most ardent swivel eyed euro loon remainer that we really are leaving the EU in March 2019. "
TBH If TM can't get a deal through Parliament then TBH I really don't know. I'm just pointing out to those that say it can't happen that in fact it can.
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"It's happening......get over it."
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
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"It's happening......get over it.
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
"
Another remainer living in fantasy land. If you think the EU will ever let us rejoin after leaving you've got your head in the clouds. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's happening......get over it.
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
"
Brexit was the first of many battles for control of this country and its direction.
Round one to the far right.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's happening......get over it.
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
Another remainer living in fantasy land. If you think the EU will ever let us rejoin after leaving you've got your head in the clouds. "
Yes I think your right - they won't let us rejoinder with the same terms as we have now - no rebate, no opt outs etc etc. 100% right for once! |
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"It's happening......get over it.
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
Another remainer living in fantasy land. If you think the EU will ever let us rejoin after leaving you've got your head in the clouds. "
Yet another leaver living in denial that brexit has any benefits. |
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"It's happening......get over it.
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
Another remainer living in fantasy land. If you think the EU will ever let us rejoin after leaving you've got your head in the clouds.
Yes I think your right - they won't let us rejoinder with the same terms as we have now - no rebate, no opt outs etc etc. 100% right for once!"
I'm fine with rejoining on those terms. If we go all in this time we would be more of a leading member instead of being an awkward half in member. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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An open question!
Ok our sovereign chancellor announced a tax on techies in our budget and now US are saying that don't like it and will affect trade deal.
They also don't like our food standards - again could affect a trade deal.
So who's going to win? Are we just going from being "dictated" by one entity to another? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue! |
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"It's happening......get over it.
Ha! Never! Remainers are never going to just meekly accept our amazing country being made worse off for any reason. This wont even finish in March'19 if this stupidity runs it's course. Because then the campaign to re-join ramps up.
Brexit was the first of many battles for control of this country and its direction.
Round one to the far right.. "
Seriously, if you think BoJo, Mogg, IDS and Fararge are far right you're in for a terrible shock when the real far right get here. There's potentially far worse to come over the next 10 years if we don't get this right. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!"
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ???? |
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"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ????"
do only chavs have criminal records ? And what’s so bad with chavs anyway I’m not sure I know what one is lol |
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"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ???? do only chavs have criminal records ? And what’s so bad with chavs anyway I’m not sure I know what one is lol "
Would you be offended if I said "Look in the mirror"?
Not that I'm actually saying that; just wondering. |
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"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ???? do only chavs have criminal records ? And what’s so bad with chavs anyway I’m not sure I know what one is lol
Would you be offended if I said "Look in the mirror"?
Not that I'm actually saying that; just wondering."
no I wouldn’t I’m not easily offended and I don’t realy know what a chav is I’m old now you see I’m not upto date woth all this can you explain it to me and I’ll tell you if I’m a chav or not ? Are you a chav ? Lol |
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"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ???? do only chavs have criminal records ? And what’s so bad with chavs anyway I’m not sure I know what one is lol
Would you be offended if I said "Look in the mirror"?
Not that I'm actually saying that; just wondering."
well I’m not young wish I was I was born and bread on a council estate which I’m proud of but not on a council estate now I wear sports gear when I go the gym so guess I’m half chav then lol |
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"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ???? do only chavs have criminal records ? And what’s so bad with chavs anyway I’m not sure I know what one is lol
Would you be offended if I said "Look in the mirror"?
Not that I'm actually saying that; just wondering. well I’m not young wish I was I was born and bread on a council estate which I’m proud of but not on a council estate now I wear sports gear when I go the gym so guess I’m half chav then lol"
Corbyn must be half chav too, he wears a shell suit to go cycling, lol. |
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"According to the Express in the event of a no deal brexit the EU are proposing a visa of £52.90 per adult and £30.60 per child for a 90 day visa. Not seen it reported anywhere else so could be untrue!
I think it will be similar to the ESTA scheme whereby you can get “trusted traveller” status. The good thing is that chavs with criminal records probably won’t get one and hopefully thereby the overall standing of British tourists abroad might improve.
The US ESTA system works well as a primary filter and then if you travel frequently you can apply for a Global Entry membership and that speeds things up even more as you by pass human immigration altogether. If the EU/U.K. system is to follow the US system then the wealthier, cleaner and more frequent travellers will be able to buy a much better deal than the plebs ???? do only chavs have criminal records ? And what’s so bad with chavs anyway I’m not sure I know what one is lol
Would you be offended if I said "Look in the mirror"?
Not that I'm actually saying that; just wondering. well I’m not young wish I was I was born and bread on a council estate which I’m proud of but not on a council estate now I wear sports gear when I go the gym so guess I’m half chav then lol
Corbyn must be half chav too, he wears a shell suit to go cycling, lol. "
centy it’s just sad when ppl get off on looking down there noses at ppl from council estates calling them chavs must have something missing in there lives bless em lol |
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Surely a visa charge to enter the EU would cost Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy important and substantial tourist income?
.....and for anyone saying that a sticking point to a deal would be the Irish border....yet the Irish would have to enforce some form of visa levy and control.....or not?
Or are visa charges levied by the EU another moveable feast used as a political football? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Other than the express who have used the classic clickbate if “could” , has anyone else reported on this ? Or have they just created a strawman to get angry at |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Surely a visa charge to enter the EU would cost Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy important and substantial tourist income?
.....and for anyone saying that a sticking point to a deal would be the Irish border....yet the Irish would have to enforce some form of visa levy and control.....or not?
Or are visa charges levied by the EU another moveable feast used as a political football?"
The EU is a body comprising many nations. Don’t fall into the Brexiter mindset of...
But BMW & Mercedes
But French winemakers
But Spanish tourism
Yes the U.K. is important, but the EU is bigger and more important and has very real and logical reasons to protect the integrity of its internal market. |
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"£350million extra every week to the N.H.S.
Actually the spending increase announced in budget was £390 million a week. (If it happens of course).
"
That claim of £390 million a week is very disingenuous.
It is true that that is the headline figure of extra money for the NHS, but there is no offset for the cuts in funding to local authority social care that have and will result in the NHS having to supply services that were previously supplied by local authorities. |
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