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The right to vote
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"Should the right to vote be restricted to those of a working age say 16-68 and would that give a more accurate reflection of public opinion on matters like brexit?" No. A democracy only works if everyone is enfranchised to vote; either in their best interest, or societies,it's a way of measuring pressing issues, or those under the surface. It is up to the state to stimulate and encourage the development and creation of individuals, who desire in depth discussion and debate so we may on a community and social level come to fitting solutions to challenging situations. | |||
"That's a contradiction, surely. If you limit who can vote, the outcome is less representative of public opinion, not more. It no longer becomes a right, but a privilege. It's a slippery slope when anyone starts deciding who can and who cannot vote. We've been there, and people died in the name of universal suffrage. The Peterloo massacre, for example, is being dramatised on the big screen at the moment. " I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! | |||
"If the upper ceilin was 68 what Would happen if Corbyn became pm but was to old to vote same woth the hose of lords " Clear out a lot of shit! | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! " Why?/how? | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how?" Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote! | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how? Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote!" But surely if you have left you’re country of birth it’s becsuse you wanted to live and work or retire to another country. After 15 years would you not have allied to become a citizen of that country ? After all You have abandoned you’re country and stopped paying tax in that country ? | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how? Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote! But surely if you have left you’re country of birth it’s becsuse you wanted to live and work or retire to another country. After 15 years would you not have allied to become a citizen of that country ? After all You have abandoned you’re country and stopped paying tax in that country ?" But having paid 40yrs into the system, having never claimed a penny either, having moved to another country - at an older age - I have saved my country thousands of pounds - in medical cover! So my country have made nothing but profit on me !!! But to answer your question - I have not "abandoned" my country I just live somewhere else. What happens in the UK effects me considerably so I should have a vote I have paid for it all my life! Had some UK nationals been allowed to vote it may have changed the result! I agree local elections etc I don't care but a referendum to leave the EU where people are directly affected then they should have a vote. My country will abandon me in 10yrs - or do I come back demand housing, benefits, medical care - because my country fucked my life? | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how? Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote! But surely if you have left you’re country of birth it’s becsuse you wanted to live and work or retire to another country. After 15 years would you not have allied to become a citizen of that country ? After all You have abandoned you’re country and stopped paying tax in that country ? But having paid 40yrs into the system, having never claimed a penny either, having moved to another country - at an older age - I have saved my country thousands of pounds - in medical cover! So my country have made nothing but profit on me !!! But to answer your question - I have not "abandoned" my country I just live somewhere else. What happens in the UK effects me considerably so I should have a vote I have paid for it all my life! Had some UK nationals been allowed to vote it may have changed the result! I agree local elections etc I don't care but a referendum to leave the EU where people are directly affected then they should have a vote. My country will abandon me in 10yrs - or do I come back demand housing, benefits, medical care - because my country fucked my life?" But presumably you have you’re pension paid to you there ? And when you were here in the uk you had the nhs ect? And also presumably you now spend all of you’re pension income abroad ? So are not and will not be supporting the uk by spending money here ? | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how? Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote! But surely if you have left you’re country of birth it’s becsuse you wanted to live and work or retire to another country. After 15 years would you not have allied to become a citizen of that country ? After all You have abandoned you’re country and stopped paying tax in that country ? But having paid 40yrs into the system, having never claimed a penny either, having moved to another country - at an older age - I have saved my country thousands of pounds - in medical cover! So my country have made nothing but profit on me !!! But to answer your question - I have not "abandoned" my country I just live somewhere else. What happens in the UK effects me considerably so I should have a vote I have paid for it all my life! Had some UK nationals been allowed to vote it may have changed the result! I agree local elections etc I don't care but a referendum to leave the EU where people are directly affected then they should have a vote. My country will abandon me in 10yrs - or do I come back demand housing, benefits, medical care - because my country fucked my life? But presumably you have you’re pension paid to you there ? And when you were here in the uk you had the nhs ect? And also presumably you now spend all of you’re pension income abroad ? So are not and will not be supporting the uk by spending money here ? " My UK pensions are paid to my UK account but they are private pensions which I and my employer paid into! I had the benefit of the NHS when I lived in the UK - again I paid into that for 40yrs - and other than having my tonsils removed in childhood - was lucky never to need it. If I had a minor complaint I went to the pharmacy and paid for over the counter medication! When I visit the UK I spend my money in the UK economy - so they get some return. I can't use the NHS even though I am a British citizen and I have private medical insurance to cover me in the UK - so no cost to the UK at all. So to summarise whilst in the UK I paid my way and as a 40% taxpayer I paid more than quite a few. The country made a profit on me. Why should I pay tax, NI etc to the UK when I am not living there? In fact I not only don't use the services but I am not entitled to use them - so would you pay? Finally had I been employed as a civil servant then you are FORCED to pay UK tax even though you are not living there and after 15 years you still lose your vote! So explain that one please? | |||
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"Some could argue that to have a say in a Countries future the least you could do is actually live there." Yes they could but then some would argue that if your country is going to implement something that is going to have a dramatic impact on your life and your a citizen you have a right? Two sides to every argument as a human being, other than my vote how else can I voice an opinion and be heard? Write to my MP who knows I have no vote - who cares? Its easy to simplify things in words but in practice it's completely different! | |||
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"If the upper ceilin was 68 what Would happen if Corbyn became pm but was to old to vote same woth the hose of lords " Every cloud huh? Lol | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how? Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote! But surely if you have left you’re country of birth it’s becsuse you wanted to live and work or retire to another country. After 15 years would you not have allied to become a citizen of that country ? After all You have abandoned you’re country and stopped paying tax in that country ? But having paid 40yrs into the system, having never claimed a penny either, having moved to another country - at an older age - I have saved my country thousands of pounds - in medical cover! So my country have made nothing but profit on me !!! But to answer your question - I have not "abandoned" my country I just live somewhere else. What happens in the UK effects me considerably so I should have a vote I have paid for it all my life! Had some UK nationals been allowed to vote it may have changed the result! I agree local elections etc I don't care but a referendum to leave the EU where people are directly affected then they should have a vote. My country will abandon me in 10yrs - or do I come back demand housing, benefits, medical care - because my country fucked my life?" By using your logic, people who never paid tax don't get a vote. I could go for that | |||
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"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x" Believe it or not neither do most Brits that come to France! | |||
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"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc" And some countries citizens have their vote for their lifetime! Which is the better democracy? | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc And some countries citizens have their vote for their lifetime! Which is the better democracy? " think 15 years is a fair compromise | |||
"Some could argue that to have a say in a Countries future the least you could do is actually live there." With all due respect if your country of birth is voting on or enacting policies which may effect your rights in other countries to work or live, or retire (and brexit will), you should have a right to excersise your right to influence policies in that country out of your individual self interest and rights. | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc" Name them all. | |||
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"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. " Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others" I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones. | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones." Why do you suppose he hasn't? | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc" There is no good reason for people who don’t live here to be allowed to vote in our elections and referendums. Essentially this is our country, they left and can fuck off. It’s about us who still live here. None of their business, and if it might affect them, tough. They chose to leave, so this is our country not theirs. | |||
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"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections." | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections." I agree!  | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections." when did logical thinking become a prerequisite for voting ? I see enough strawman and non sequiturs here to fear a large portion of the population cannot critique sources, analyse evidence or draw out logical conclusions. | |||
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"Socrates had the right idea regards voters. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote" . That's the beauty of free speech, sooner or later lefties always let out the truth of what they actually want. Gulag 30 days  | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections." Great idea, lets regress 50 years | |||
"Socrates had the right idea regards voters. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote. That's the beauty of free speech, sooner or later lefties always let out the truth of what they actually want. Gulag 30 days "im sure peacehave and Emma will be happy you classed them as lefties | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones." What does it matter if they are eu based, asian, south american or anywhere else, try using google if you want to see the whole list. If you have lived away from any country for 15 years why should you need or even want to vote, if you leave a club etc you dont get to say how it runs, is thhe UK going to get a say in how the EU rules are decided after we leave ?  | |||
"Socrates had the right idea regards voters. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote. That's the beauty of free speech, sooner or later lefties always let out the truth of what they actually want. Gulag 30 days im sure peacehave and Emma will be happy you classed them as lefties ". It was a direct quote to the guy who wrote this, you can tag the other two if you wish. Far right parties are renowned to remove peoples voting rights, what's less obvious is the same feeling along the left and not just the far left. | |||
"Socrates had the right idea regards voters. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote. That's the beauty of free speech, sooner or later lefties always let out the truth of what they actually want. Gulag 30 days im sure peacehave and Emma will be happy you classed them as lefties .
It was a direct quote to the guy who wrote this, you can tag the other two if you wish.
Far right parties are renowned to remove peoples voting rights, what's less obvious is the same feeling along the left and not just the far left."my mussunderstanding. I thought you meant it was an exclusive trait of lefties rather than both sides wishing to suppress the votes of groups likely to vote against them. | |||
"Socrates had the right idea regards voters. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote. That's the beauty of free speech, sooner or later lefties always let out the truth of what they actually want. Gulag 30 days im sure peacehave and Emma will be happy you classed them as lefties .
It was a direct quote to the guy who wrote this, you can tag the other two if you wish.
Far right parties are renowned to remove peoples voting rights, what's less obvious is the same feeling along the left and not just the far left.my mussunderstanding. I thought you meant it was an exclusive trait of lefties rather than both sides wishing to suppress the votes of groups likely to vote against them. ". I think it's well understood by most what the far right parties like to do as they have a habit of actually saying it one only needs to look at the Balkans to see how it played out. The hard line left however tend to have a "nicer" message, it always starts out with a class struggle and freeing the masses from oppression by the wealthy, of course any system will have denounces, those who just think the hardliners are wrong and don't want anything to do with it. Ask the communists on here what there'd do with those that don't want to go along with there plans, they won't give you an answer because the answer is the same one that's been put in place by all authoritarian systems for hundreds of years, mass murders and gulags, just look to the Chinese today to see that in operation. The left complain we need tighter control over internet freedoms to counter the "far right" the Chinese just monitor and dictate everything. The right complain we don't monitor the "Muslims" enough, the Chinese just round them up in camps. My main priority in life far before policies is freedom,it's why I don't believe in a big state (right or left) as history shows they have a habit of being authoritarians by nature. The hard left are far more sneaky about there intentions but trust me, in the end they'll round you up if you disagree. | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones. What does it matter if they are eu based, asian, south american or anywhere else, try using google if you want to see the whole list. If you have lived away from any country for 15 years why should you need or even want to vote, if you leave a club etc you dont get to say how it runs, is thhe UK going to get a say in how the EU rules are decided after we leave ? "So where does that leave prominent brexiteer Lord Lawson? Not only is he living in France but the British taxpayer is paying his expenses and attendance fees to sit in the House of Lord's ! Having said that he's just one of the "elites" - albeit conservative, but he is making decisions about the UK but living abroad - blows out the argument don't you think? | |||
" Ask the communists on here what there'd do with those that don't want to go along with there plans, they won't give you an answer because the answer is the same one that's been put in place by all authoritarian systems for hundreds of years, mass murders and gulags, just look to the Chinese today to see that in operation. The left complain we need tighter control over internet freedoms to counter the "far right" the Chinese just monitor and dictate everything. The right complain we don't monitor the "Muslims" enough, the Chinese just round them up in camps. My main priority in life far before policies is freedom,it's why I don't believe in a big state (right or left) as history shows they have a habit of being authoritarians by nature. The hard left are far more sneaky about there intentions but trust me, in the end they'll round you up if you disagree." Who is a communist on here? Just because others you call you communist does not mean you are, just like if you call yourself democratic it does not mean you are. The fact is dictatorships like to call themselves democratic, some even put it in their name! Only countries that refuse to allow corporate USA full and unrestricted access to their market are labelled communist. | |||
" Ask the communists on here what there'd do with those that don't want to go along with there plans, they won't give you an answer because the answer is the same one that's been put in place by all authoritarian systems for hundreds of years, mass murders and gulags, just look to the Chinese today to see that in operation. The left complain we need tighter control over internet freedoms to counter the "far right" the Chinese just monitor and dictate everything. The right complain we don't monitor the "Muslims" enough, the Chinese just round them up in camps. My main priority in life far before policies is freedom,it's why I don't believe in a big state (right or left) as history shows they have a habit of being authoritarians by nature. The hard left are far more sneaky about there intentions but trust me, in the end they'll round you up if you disagree. Who is a communist on here? Just because others you call you communist does not mean you are, just like if you call yourself democratic it does not mean you are. The fact is dictatorships like to call themselves democratic, some even put it in their name! Only countries that refuse to allow corporate USA full and unrestricted access to their market are labelled communist." . You mean like China? | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x" Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? " . Why did you ? | |||
"Should the right to vote be restricted to those of a working age say 16-68 and would that give a more accurate reflection of public opinion on matters like brexit? No. A democracy only works if everyone is enfranchised to vote; either in their best interest, or societies,it's a way of measuring pressing issues, or those under the surface. It is up to the state to stimulate and encourage the development and creation of individuals, who desire in depth discussion and debate so we may on a community and social level come to fitting solutions to challenging situations." There's nothing inherently good about everyone having the right to vote. For some strange reason, people willfully ignore the fact that voting requires skill and many people stubbornly refuse to learn those skills. Politicians have no inherent interest in a population with a "desire for in depth discussion" which may explain why the state education system does next to nothing to teach the skills necessary for intelligent voting. None of what I'm saying, my only claim is that Socrates has been proven right. | |||
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"It is in the interests of the political and ruling classes to have a politically illiterate population. In fact it is in the ruling classes interest to have a semi literate and uneducated population in general. Unfortunately the vast majority of the population conflate training with education, the two are not the same at all. You can train a clever monkey do do virtually any task. Education is about learning to think and recognising errors, correcting and not repeating them. Not skills one teaches everyone if one wants a compliant and easily manipulated population. " Hence we need to ditch the department of education  | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? " Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? | |||
"Hence we need to ditch the department of education "No, just a need to improve the whole system. | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones. What does it matter if they are eu based, asian, south american or anywhere else, try using google if you want to see the whole list. If you have lived away from any country for 15 years why should you need or even want to vote, if you leave a club etc you dont get to say how it runs, is thhe UK going to get a say in how the EU rules are decided after we leave ?
So where does that leave prominent brexiteer Lord Lawson? Not only is he living in France but the British taxpayer is paying his expenses and attendance fees to sit in the House of Lord's ! Having said that he's just one of the "elites" - albeit conservative, but he is making decisions about the UK but living abroad - blows out the argument don't you think?"No I would have thought it makes the point stronger, if you are away for 15 years most would hhave lost touch with things "back home" so wouldnt be a great judge on how to vote, of course there are exceptions but as arule I think thats true,lets face most politicans are out of touch, london based folks on bonuses that are more than most folks basic are out of touch with those at the bottom of the ladder so how the hell would someone living in say vietnam know whats going on in the uk | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? " I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? " I know many friends who are now planning to leave for the EU and other destinations over the next decade .Im hoping to retire in 10 years and leaving Blighty for good.Its not the country I grew up in. | |||
"Hence we need to ditch the department of education
No, just a need to improve the whole system."You just said the ruling class have no interest in doing that. | |||
"You just said the ruling class have no interest in doing that. " So use a little logic and see if you can work out a way to square that circle. | |||
"You just said the ruling class have no interest in doing that. So use a little logic and see if you can work out a way to square that circle." Viva la revolution? | |||
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"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think" I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones. What does it matter if they are eu based, asian, south american or anywhere else, try using google if you want to see the whole list. If you have lived away from any country for 15 years why should you need or even want to vote, if you leave a club etc you dont get to say how it runs, is thhe UK going to get a say in how the EU rules are decided after we leave ? "As I said in a prior post. If your nation is negotiating with other nations, such as the country you now reside in, and such negotions will impact your rights as an expat, business owner, asset holder or non-native citizen, then you should have every right to vote in favour or against this policies at the ballot. In addition, the principal of democracy is that every individual citizen gets a say. If you have a passport and you are on record and a UK citizen, then you should get a vote, regardless. Anything else goes against the concept of a democracy and the rights of the civic individual. | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc There is no good reason for people who don’t live here to be allowed to vote in our elections and referendums. Essentially this is our country, they left and can fuck off. It’s about us who still live here. None of their business, and if it might affect them, tough. They chose to leave, so this is our country not theirs." And so you are against the right of the citizen and therefore against democracy | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones. Why do you suppose he hasn't?" Read correctly, the user said "amoung others" | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections." "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer." So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? " Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap." But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. | |||
"I don't normally respond to the various types of mudslinging that seems to go on in the political forum, obviously all the arm chair experts know far more than I do but I'm going to stick my bit in here! Some of us live and work in the EU because that's where our companies sent us or where the best opportunities lay and under the freedom of movement of the EU it allowed us to do so. Working in the EU under the current rules is no different to someone choosing to work in any part of the UK, that's what the freedom of movement was all about. Now that right has (or will be) removed with a lot of English folk placed into a possible untenable position having had no say in the matter. So.. you are working and doing your bit and a vote is held in the country which issues your EU passport - the document that allows you to work and live where you do - and decides to revoke it and it's a case of 'tough titties' Just because we work abroad, does not make us less 'British' but apparently still 'foreign' enough to be ignored when a vote is made on something that will have a large difference on your life and despite the possible repercussions. I think (although I will stand to be corrected) that there are approx 1.5 million registered ex-pats living in mainland Europe - however, it was suggested on our local TV news that the real figure is nearer 3 million as it is not a requirement to register with the British consulate within the EU. Guessing that could have made a bit of a difference to the final vote.... Oh, and some local friends did try to vote having just moved here when the referendum took place. The phoned and applied to have a voting paper sent to them... strangely, it never arrived. Now, before you start slinging the effluent about, please try to view it from this side of the fence and ask yourself a question - how would YOU feel about it, it's not your fault, you've not been allowed your say, but the country of your birth has just hung you out to dry. Food for thought perhaps!? " How long have you been abroad? While it maybe more difficult than before it certainly wont be that hard if your skills are required or if you can show you have funds to support yourself, Nick Clegg soon found a way to get a job in a foreign country, | |||
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"meanwhile ... in the real world .... the voting age is 18 until death .... it won't change despite the rantings of poorly educated 30 somethings who think they have discovered a radical new idea that turns out to be an ancient pile of proven shit " Because you're so much smarter than Socrates | |||
"meanwhile ... in the real world .... the voting age is 18 until death .... it won't change despite the rantings of poorly educated 30 somethings who think they have discovered a radical new idea that turns out to be an ancient pile of proven shit Because you're so much smarter than Socrates "i'm a realist | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? " i have no real idea what skills a pilot needs if I’m honest. I’d be worried about getting in a plane that only 50% of assessors thought the pilot was safe. Let alone joe public. | |||
"I don't normally respond to the various types of mudslinging that seems to go on in the political forum, obviously all the arm chair experts know far more than I do but I'm going to stick my bit in here! Some of us live and work in the EU because that's where our companies sent us or where the best opportunities lay and under the freedom of movement of the EU it allowed us to do so. Working in the EU under the current rules is no different to someone choosing to work in any part of the UK, that's what the freedom of movement was all about. Now that right has (or will be) removed with a lot of English folk placed into a possible untenable position having had no say in the matter. So.. you are working and doing your bit and a vote is held in the country which issues your EU passport - the document that allows you to work and live where you do - and decides to revoke it and it's a case of 'tough titties' Just because we work abroad, does not make us less 'British' but apparently still 'foreign' enough to be ignored when a vote is made on something that will have a large difference on your life and despite the possible repercussions. I think (although I will stand to be corrected) that there are approx 1.5 million registered ex-pats living in mainland Europe - however, it was suggested on our local TV news that the real figure is nearer 3 million as it is not a requirement to register with the British consulate within the EU. Guessing that could have made a bit of a difference to the final vote.... Oh, and some local friends did try to vote having just moved here when the referendum took place. The phoned and applied to have a voting paper sent to them... strangely, it never arrived. Now, before you start slinging the effluent about, please try to view it from this side of the fence and ask yourself a question - how would YOU feel about it, it's not your fault, you've not been allowed your say, but the country of your birth has just hung you out to dry. Food for thought perhaps!? How long have you been abroad? While it maybe more difficult than before it certainly wont be that hard if your skills are required or if you can show you have funds to support yourself, Nick Clegg soon found a way to get a job in a foreign country," Yeah that's probably due to the fact that Clegg attended that Parliament place a few times, it probably makes bureaucratic doors open easier! We've been here over 15 years, and yep, we could apply for citizenship, but it's not that simple and it takes at least 2 years and - here's my particular bummer, my work takes me all over Europe (yeah, ok and other parts of the world but mainly Europe) So now.. what happens?? To date, I can't find anyone anywhere who has a complete set of answers - no real surprises from what we've seen/heard so far! I'm not harping on about my particular situation, there is more than us two in this boat, but I do have issues with a vote that has a potential huge effect on a few million British people who had no say in the matter. "Blow you Jack, I'm alright" is a fine attitude to take if your mind operates along those wavelengths, but at the end of the day, we are still British people, who, on the face of it, seem to have been kept out of the equation - no vote and completely forgotten about. Yes, we had a choice of moving abroad but we came under a set of rules that allowed us to, now those rules have been changed without a chance to have our say Here endeth todays lesson..... Bonsoir a touts! | |||
"I don't normally respond to the various types of mudslinging that seems to go on in the political forum, obviously all the arm chair experts know far more than I do but I'm going to stick my bit in here! Some of us live and work in the EU because that's where our companies sent us or where the best opportunities lay and under the freedom of movement of the EU it allowed us to do so. Working in the EU under the current rules is no different to someone choosing to work in any part of the UK, that's what the freedom of movement was all about. Now that right has (or will be) removed with a lot of English folk placed into a possible untenable position having had no say in the matter. So.. you are working and doing your bit and a vote is held in the country which issues your EU passport - the document that allows you to work and live where you do - and decides to revoke it and it's a case of 'tough titties' Just because we work abroad, does not make us less 'British' but apparently still 'foreign' enough to be ignored when a vote is made on something that will have a large difference on your life and despite the possible repercussions. I think (although I will stand to be corrected) that there are approx 1.5 million registered ex-pats living in mainland Europe - however, it was suggested on our local TV news that the real figure is nearer 3 million as it is not a requirement to register with the British consulate within the EU. Guessing that could have made a bit of a difference to the final vote.... Oh, and some local friends did try to vote having just moved here when the referendum took place. The phoned and applied to have a voting paper sent to them... strangely, it never arrived. Now, before you start slinging the effluent about, please try to view it from this side of the fence and ask yourself a question - how would YOU feel about it, it's not your fault, you've not been allowed your say, but the country of your birth has just hung you out to dry. Food for thought perhaps!? How long have you been abroad? While it maybe more difficult than before it certainly wont be that hard if your skills are required or if you can show you have funds to support yourself, Nick Clegg soon found a way to get a job in a foreign country," Absolutely right! But then Nick Clegg isn't your "bog standard " individual is he? Being deputy prime minister will certainly open doors - contacts made etc etc. Average bod is going to struggle - firstly language. You come to France "clueless " I spent several years researching everything I could think of, private tuition in uk but you only really learn once you arrive here! It's completely different from the UK and it takes months to resolve -if not years and on top of that brexit has just created loads more paperwork! | |||
"I don't normally respond to the various types of mudslinging that seems to go on in the political forum, obviously all the arm chair experts know far more than I do but I'm going to stick my bit in here! Some of us live and work in the EU because that's where our companies sent us or where the best opportunities lay and under the freedom of movement of the EU it allowed us to do so. Working in the EU under the current rules is no different to someone choosing to work in any part of the UK, that's what the freedom of movement was all about. Now that right has (or will be) removed with a lot of English folk placed into a possible untenable position having had no say in the matter. So.. you are working and doing your bit and a vote is held in the country which issues your EU passport - the document that allows you to work and live where you do - and decides to revoke it and it's a case of 'tough titties' Just because we work abroad, does not make us less 'British' but apparently still 'foreign' enough to be ignored when a vote is made on something that will have a large difference on your life and despite the possible repercussions. I think (although I will stand to be corrected) that there are approx 1.5 million registered ex-pats living in mainland Europe - however, it was suggested on our local TV news that the real figure is nearer 3 million as it is not a requirement to register with the British consulate within the EU. Guessing that could have made a bit of a difference to the final vote.... Oh, and some local friends did try to vote having just moved here when the referendum took place. The phoned and applied to have a voting paper sent to them... strangely, it never arrived. Now, before you start slinging the effluent about, please try to view it from this side of the fence and ask yourself a question - how would YOU feel about it, it's not your fault, you've not been allowed your say, but the country of your birth has just hung you out to dry. Food for thought perhaps!? How long have you been abroad? While it maybe more difficult than before it certainly wont be that hard if your skills are required or if you can show you have funds to support yourself, Nick Clegg soon found a way to get a job in a foreign country, Yeah that's probably due to the fact that Clegg attended that Parliament place a few times, it probably makes bureaucratic doors open easier! We've been here over 15 years, and yep, we could apply for citizenship, but it's not that simple and it takes at least 2 years and - here's my particular bummer, my work takes me all over Europe (yeah, ok and other parts of the world but mainly Europe) So now.. what happens?? To date, I can't find anyone anywhere who has a complete set of answers - no real surprises from what we've seen/heard so far! I'm not harping on about my particular situation, there is more than us two in this boat, but I do have issues with a vote that has a potential huge effect on a few million British people who had no say in the matter. "Blow you Jack, I'm alright" is a fine attitude to take if your mind operates along those wavelengths, but at the end of the day, we are still British people, who, on the face of it, seem to have been kept out of the equation - no vote and completely forgotten about. Yes, we had a choice of moving abroad but we came under a set of rules that allowed us to, now those rules have been changed without a chance to have our say Here endeth todays lesson..... Bonsoir a touts! " On a positive note I am lead to believe that your carte de sejour is a "visa" for all the shengen states so at least your in whichever country legally - But don't know the rules regarding working - desole. | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. " Do how do you assess what is right and what is not? Logistically speaking alongside ethically and morally? To clarify, the clap trap comment was more about those who claim maturity as a measurement of a right to vote, I consider assessing logic and skills as a proxy for the right to vote more viable, but I wouldn't back it. It would likely distract the state from encouraging and enabling good, broad education and skills diversification. | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Do how do you assess what is right and what is not? Logistically speaking alongside ethically and morally? To clarify, the clap trap comment was more about those who claim maturity as a measurement of a right to vote, I consider assessing logic and skills as a proxy for the right to vote more viable, but I wouldn't back it. It would likely distract the state from encouraging and enabling good, broad education and skills diversification." Which is impossible in my opinion. As a society, we don't have any problem defining these things in other areas. I couldn't refuse to hire you for a job because of your race, sex or sexuality. So if someone was voting along those lines then I don't see the difficulty in saying that isn't valid and them being able to cast votes in that way doesn't help democracy. | |||
"Socrates had the right idea regards voters. Some shouldn't be allowed to vote" My dad used to say that,think there is a lot in it | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Do how do you assess what is right and what is not? Logistically speaking alongside ethically and morally? To clarify, the clap trap comment was more about those who claim maturity as a measurement of a right to vote, I consider assessing logic and skills as a proxy for the right to vote more viable, but I wouldn't back it. It would likely distract the state from encouraging and enabling good, broad education and skills diversification. Which is impossible in my opinion. As a society, we don't have any problem defining these things in other areas. I couldn't refuse to hire you for a job because of your race, sex or sexuality. So if someone was voting along those lines then I don't see the difficulty in saying that isn't valid and them being able to cast votes in that way doesn't help democracy. " I agree. I'm not arguing for vote censorship. Did you let the issue exist, or do you seek to educate people so they have specific skill sets and can discuss policy implications well? | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Do how do you assess what is right and what is not? Logistically speaking alongside ethically and morally? To clarify, the clap trap comment was more about those who claim maturity as a measurement of a right to vote, I consider assessing logic and skills as a proxy for the right to vote more viable, but I wouldn't back it. It would likely distract the state from encouraging and enabling good, broad education and skills diversification. Which is impossible in my opinion. As a society, we don't have any problem defining these things in other areas. I couldn't refuse to hire you for a job because of your race, sex or sexuality. So if someone was voting along those lines then I don't see the difficulty in saying that isn't valid and them being able to cast votes in that way doesn't help democracy. I agree. I'm not arguing for vote censorship. Did you let the issue exist, or do you seek to educate people so they have specific skill sets and can discuss policy implications well?" Not sure I entirely understood the question but it's part education, the ability of the average Briton to understand really basic statistics makes me want to cry on a daily basis. But it's also partly taking out the trash. There need to be British values and people that aren't on board with them need to be deported. Its not helpful having a bunch of vocal idiots who want to start a revolution in this country, they can just go to one of the many shit hole countries that already tried their ideas. | |||
"I don't normally respond to the various types of mudslinging that seems to go on in the political forum, obviously all the arm chair experts know far more than I do but I'm going to stick my bit in here! Some of us live and work in the EU because that's where our companies sent us or where the best opportunities lay and under the freedom of movement of the EU it allowed us to do so. Working in the EU under the current rules is no different to someone choosing to work in any part of the UK, that's what the freedom of movement was all about. Now that right has (or will be) removed with a lot of English folk placed into a possible untenable position having had no say in the matter. So.. you are working and doing your bit and a vote is held in the country which issues your EU passport - the document that allows you to work and live where you do - and decides to revoke it and it's a case of 'tough titties' Just because we work abroad, does not make us less 'British' but apparently still 'foreign' enough to be ignored when a vote is made on something that will have a large difference on your life and despite the possible repercussions. I think (although I will stand to be corrected) that there are approx 1.5 million registered ex-pats living in mainland Europe - however, it was suggested on our local TV news that the real figure is nearer 3 million as it is not a requirement to register with the British consulate within the EU. Guessing that could have made a bit of a difference to the final vote.... Oh, and some local friends did try to vote having just moved here when the referendum took place. The phoned and applied to have a voting paper sent to them... strangely, it never arrived. Now, before you start slinging the effluent about, please try to view it from this side of the fence and ask yourself a question - how would YOU feel about it, it's not your fault, you've not been allowed your say, but the country of your birth has just hung you out to dry. Food for thought perhaps!? How long have you been abroad? While it maybe more difficult than before it certainly wont be that hard if your skills are required or if you can show you have funds to support yourself, Nick Clegg soon found a way to get a job in a foreign country, Yeah that's probably due to the fact that Clegg attended that Parliament place a few times, it probably makes bureaucratic doors open easier! We've been here over 15 years, and yep, we could apply for citizenship, but it's not that simple and it takes at least 2 years and - here's my particular bummer, my work takes me all over Europe (yeah, ok and other parts of the world but mainly Europe) So now.. what happens?? To date, I can't find anyone anywhere who has a complete set of answers - no real surprises from what we've seen/heard so far! I'm not harping on about my particular situation, there is more than us two in this boat, but I do have issues with a vote that has a potential huge effect on a few million British people who had no say in the matter. "Blow you Jack, I'm alright" is a fine attitude to take if your mind operates along those wavelengths, but at the end of the day, we are still British people, who, on the face of it, seem to have been kept out of the equation - no vote and completely forgotten about. Yes, we had a choice of moving abroad but we came under a set of rules that allowed us to, now those rules have been changed without a chance to have our say Here endeth todays lesson..... Bonsoir a touts! On a positive note I am lead to believe that your carte de sejour is a "visa" for all the shengen states so at least your in whichever country legally - But don't know the rules regarding working - desole." And regretfully, therein layeth the problem! No one has any real hard answers! Everyone I have spoken to starts the sentence with the words "I think".. I'm contracted to a French company which, in theory will allow me to work within the EU as its a French CDS... I hope, I sincerely hope, that someone, somewhere who has more than a couple of functioning brain cells and is able to think about the people as a whole and not some political goon whos only interest is staying/getting in power and lining their own nests, is able to sort this massive self adjusting cock up out. malheureusement, je n'ai pas beaucoup d'espoir!!  | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Do how do you assess what is right and what is not? Logistically speaking alongside ethically and morally? To clarify, the clap trap comment was more about those who claim maturity as a measurement of a right to vote, I consider assessing logic and skills as a proxy for the right to vote more viable, but I wouldn't back it. It would likely distract the state from encouraging and enabling good, broad education and skills diversification. Which is impossible in my opinion. As a society, we don't have any problem defining these things in other areas. I couldn't refuse to hire you for a job because of your race, sex or sexuality. So if someone was voting along those lines then I don't see the difficulty in saying that isn't valid and them being able to cast votes in that way doesn't help democracy. I agree. I'm not arguing for vote censorship. Did you let the issue exist, or do you seek to educate people so they have specific skill sets and can discuss policy implications well? Not sure I entirely understood the question but it's part education, the ability of the average Briton to understand really basic statistics makes me want to cry on a daily basis. But it's also partly taking out the trash. There need to be British values and people that aren't on board with them need to be deported. Its not helpful having a bunch of vocal idiots who want to start a revolution in this country, they can just go to one of the many shit hole countries that already tried their ideas. " I love that; British values. Can we define them, or are they subjective to the individual? Sadly we cannot deport citizens? And is that a jab at the radical left, right or both? | |||
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"Viva la revolution? " No... Why do you think that a revolution is required to effect change? | |||
"I think the voting age should go back to 21 exeot for people in the armed forces.Teenagers do not have the maturity to think logically about who they should vote for.I could have voted at 18 but decided I was to young,and I stand by that.Have voted allways since then in national,local and euro elections. "Teenagers don't have the maturity to think logically" You see you just discriminated based on age, wholesale across society. If we view that maturity and logic and required to vote effectively, then everyone should be made to take an exam to proce and evidence their logical thinking skills. God knows you test for maturity. Quite frankly if I set the exam I'd fail you for that I'll thought out answer. So what is it about voting that is so complex? I mean none of us struggle to understand that skills a pilot needs before we put them in charge of a plane. Or the skills a driver has before we let them on the road. Why is voting so uniquely complicated? Fuck knows. It's not my view that it is. It's my view that it's hard for people to agree on social/global challenges and policies on how to tackle them. I feel like this is a new way for people to silence those who disagree with their world or political views. Pro-eu say, "oh you are not skilled enough", pro-leave say, "oh it's the young, and the young don't have enough experience, aren't mature enough." What clap trap. But it's not new at all. Socrates was horrified by the idea that voting should be a birth right. I have some pretty significant difference of opinion with kinkylondonpeople, bobbangs and SoulfulKinky - but i would absolutely not try to claim that they haven't considered their views properly / are voting on blind prejudice or are just too stupid to vote. I wouldn't agree with any standard that would stop them voting even though we'd almost never vote the same way. Likewise, some people who do vote the same way as me, do so for the wrong reasons and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Do how do you assess what is right and what is not? Logistically speaking alongside ethically and morally? To clarify, the clap trap comment was more about those who claim maturity as a measurement of a right to vote, I consider assessing logic and skills as a proxy for the right to vote more viable, but I wouldn't back it. It would likely distract the state from encouraging and enabling good, broad education and skills diversification. Which is impossible in my opinion. As a society, we don't have any problem defining these things in other areas. I couldn't refuse to hire you for a job because of your race, sex or sexuality. So if someone was voting along those lines then I don't see the difficulty in saying that isn't valid and them being able to cast votes in that way doesn't help democracy. I agree. I'm not arguing for vote censorship. Did you let the issue exist, or do you seek to educate people so they have specific skill sets and can discuss policy implications well? Not sure I entirely understood the question but it's part education, the ability of the average Briton to understand really basic statistics makes me want to cry on a daily basis. But it's also partly taking out the trash. There need to be British values and people that aren't on board with them need to be deported. Its not helpful having a bunch of vocal idiots who want to start a revolution in this country, they can just go to one of the many shit hole countries that already tried their ideas. I love that; British values. Can we define them, or are they subjective to the individual? Sadly we cannot deport citizens? And is that a jab at the radical left, right or both?" Both. Would it surprise you if I said your beloved department of education had already defined British values? It's really not as hard as your question implies. | |||
" I will loose my vote in 10 yrs - no choice, it will be taken from me, as it has been, for approximately 1 million Brits. So much for the oldest democracy in the World! Why?/how? Because as a non UK resident you lose your right to vote, even though UK decisions could be detrimental to the individuals best interests. Brexit being a classic example - some people who left the UK - still citizens over 15 years ago had NO VOTE in brexit - even though it would have dramatic consequences on their lives! A lady at a British embassy roadshow was in tears - scared stiff about her future - couldn't vote. The counter argument is we "have gone" true but when it's had a direct impact on your life - your no better than a "stateless" person - you have no vote! But surely if you have left you’re country of birth it’s becsuse you wanted to live and work or retire to another country. After 15 years would you not have allied to become a citizen of that country ? After all You have abandoned you’re country and stopped paying tax in that country ? But having paid 40yrs into the system, having never claimed a penny either, having moved to another country - at an older age - I have saved my country thousands of pounds - in medical cover! So my country have made nothing but profit on me !!! But to answer your question - I have not "abandoned" my country I just live somewhere else. What happens in the UK effects me considerably so I should have a vote I have paid for it all my life! Had some UK nationals been allowed to vote it may have changed the result! I agree local elections etc I don't care but a referendum to leave the EU where people are directly affected then they should have a vote. My country will abandon me in 10yrs - or do I come back demand housing, benefits, medical care - because my country fucked my life? But presumably you have you’re pension paid to you there ? And when you were here in the uk you had the nhs ect? And also presumably you now spend all of you’re pension income abroad ? So are not and will not be supporting the uk by spending money here ? My UK pensions are paid to my UK account but they are private pensions which I and my employer paid into! I had the benefit of the NHS when I lived in the UK - again I paid into that for 40yrs - and other than having my tonsils removed in childhood - was lucky never to need it. If I had a minor complaint I went to the pharmacy and paid for over the counter medication! When I visit the UK I spend my money in the UK economy - so they get some return. I can't use the NHS even though I am a British citizen and I have private medical insurance to cover me in the UK - so no cost to the UK at all. So to summarise whilst in the UK I paid my way and as a 40% taxpayer I paid more than quite a few. The country made a profit on me. Why should I pay tax, NI etc to the UK when I am not living there? In fact I not only don't use the services but I am not entitled to use them - so would you pay? Finally had I been employed as a civil servant then you are FORCED to pay UK tax even though you are not living there and after 15 years you still lose your vote! So explain that one please?" So because you 'paid less in than you received back', you should be entitled to vote in the UK, even though you no longer live in tbe UK? Do you think that what you 'overpaid', the UK government should give back to you? Why did you leave the UK? And if you feel that strongly about it why don't you move back? Or why don't you apply to become a French citizen? | |||
"Some could argue that to have a say in a Countries future the least you could do is actually live there. Yes they could but then some would argue that if your country is going to implement something that is going to have a dramatic impact on your life and your a citizen you have a right? Two sides to every argument as a human being, other than my vote how else can I voice an opinion and be heard? Write to my MP who knows I have no vote - who cares? Its easy to simplify things in words but in practice it's completely different! " If you live abroad you haven't got a UK MP.... | |||
"many other countries stop their citizens that dont live in their own country from voting, some cant even vote if they are out of the country on holiday etc Name them all. Ireland , germany, malta, Oz,canada,among others I said name them all. Not just the Anglophile ones. What does it matter if they are eu based, asian, south american or anywhere else, try using google if you want to see the whole list. If you have lived away from any country for 15 years why should you need or even want to vote, if you leave a club etc you dont get to say how it runs, is thhe UK going to get a say in how the EU rules are decided after we leave ? " | |||
" Ask the communists on here what there'd do with those that don't want to go along with there plans, they won't give you an answer because the answer is the same one that's been put in place by all authoritarian systems for hundreds of years, mass murders and gulags, just look to the Chinese today to see that in operation. The left complain we need tighter control over internet freedoms to counter the "far right" the Chinese just monitor and dictate everything. The right complain we don't monitor the "Muslims" enough, the Chinese just round them up in camps. My main priority in life far before policies is freedom,it's why I don't believe in a big state (right or left) as history shows they have a habit of being authoritarians by nature. The hard left are far more sneaky about there intentions but trust me, in the end they'll round you up if you disagree. Who is a communist on here? Just because others you call you communist does not mean you are, just like if you call yourself democratic it does not mean you are. The fact is dictatorships like to call themselves democratic, some even put it in their name! Only countries that refuse to allow corporate USA full and unrestricted access to their market are labelled communist." Just like being called a racist, xenophobe, far right, etc because you voted for Brexit, it doesn't mean you are, either. | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen." You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote? | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote?" You assume a lot - I left in Sept 13 - a referendum was not on the table. Most people will not appreciate the situation of someone being resident in another country! When I let it was my legal right to move to another state in Europe! I can appreciate my vote alone is not going to change the way the country is run, but when your looking at constitutional changes in a referendum as a British citizen I should have a vote. You clearly disagree but that's your opinion - I don't care ! As a British citizen I have the right to return to the UK at any time in the future if I choose to do so. | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote? You assume a lot - I left in Sept 13 - a referendum was not on the table. Most people will not appreciate the situation of someone being resident in another country! When I let it was my legal right to move to another state in Europe! I can appreciate my vote alone is not going to change the way the country is run, but when your looking at constitutional changes in a referendum as a British citizen I should have a vote. You clearly disagree but that's your opinion - I don't care ! As a British citizen I have the right to return to the UK at any time in the future if I choose to do so. " But you won't return - look at the litter in the streets! If you feel that strongly about having a vote...then return! If you don't, then stay there! | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote? You assume a lot - I left in Sept 13 - a referendum was not on the table. Most people will not appreciate the situation of someone being resident in another country! When I let it was my legal right to move to another state in Europe! I can appreciate my vote alone is not going to change the way the country is run, but when your looking at constitutional changes in a referendum as a British citizen I should have a vote. You clearly disagree but that's your opinion - I don't care ! As a British citizen I have the right to return to the UK at any time in the future if I choose to do so. But you won't return - look at the litter in the streets! If you feel that strongly about having a vote...then return! If you don't, then stay there!" . | |||
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"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote? You assume a lot - I left in Sept 13 - a referendum was not on the table. Most people will not appreciate the situation of someone being resident in another country! When I let it was my legal right to move to another state in Europe! I can appreciate my vote alone is not going to change the way the country is run, but when your looking at constitutional changes in a referendum as a British citizen I should have a vote. You clearly disagree but that's your opinion - I don't care ! As a British citizen I have the right to return to the UK at any time in the future if I choose to do so. But you won't return - look at the litter in the streets! If you feel that strongly about having a vote...then return! If you don't, then stay there!. "In order to protect their right to live and work in the Eu, they needed to not use this right, and move back to the uk. | |||
"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote? You assume a lot - I left in Sept 13 - a referendum was not on the table. Most people will not appreciate the situation of someone being resident in another country! When I let it was my legal right to move to another state in Europe! I can appreciate my vote alone is not going to change the way the country is run, but when your looking at constitutional changes in a referendum as a British citizen I should have a vote. You clearly disagree but that's your opinion - I don't care ! As a British citizen I have the right to return to the UK at any time in the future if I choose to do so. But you won't return - look at the litter in the streets! If you feel that strongly about having a vote...then return! If you don't, then stay there!. "As stated a reason I left was the attitude of some people - and this thread just proved I was right. To coin a phrase "sticks and stones will break my bones - but trolling will never hurt me" (adapted for 21st century Britain)! Quel dommage - c'est fini !!! | |||
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"It's not that we're trolls. I just have to ask How would it work ?. Let's just say Brexit doesn't happen and there is a new spirit of entente cordial. Would we have to set up parliament to have special MPs for Ex pats or could we cede more power to Brussels which would be the logical answer as we seek greater integration and the whole of Europe becomes a multinational state. I guess if the UK parliament was disbanded and the european parliament became the overall power with proportional representation electoral system it could be done. Europe would become a United Federal country and we would just be a small member state and all it's citizens are equal across all 27 or so members." Sorry, but I think you are missing the point of this posting. We are not arguing the result or the pros, cons of the UKs membership of the EU or what is going to happen to whom. The point that we are trying to make is that several million British people who live and work within the EU were denied the right to vote in something which has a direct and possibly catastrophic impact on their lives. With out wishing to repeat the previous posting but under the current laws of freedom of movement, choosing to live and work within another EU country is no different to deciding to move to Wales, Scotland or N.I. That is what freedom of movement is about. Just because we live in the EU does not change our nationality, we still have British passports but how effective they will be within the EU remains (no pun intended) to be seen. Do they loose the EU status in March, 2 years hence or when they expire?? who knows, but one thing is certain those of us who rely on them over here had precious little say in the matter. | |||
"It's not that we're trolls. I just have to ask How would it work ?. Let's just say Brexit doesn't happen and there is a new spirit of entente cordial. Would we have to set up parliament to have special MPs for Ex pats or could we cede more power to Brussels which would be the logical answer as we seek greater integration and the whole of Europe becomes a multinational state. I guess if the UK parliament was disbanded and the european parliament became the overall power with proportional representation electoral system it could be done. Europe would become a United Federal country and we would just be a small member state and all it's citizens are equal across all 27 or so members." You just described the model for the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. | |||
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"Sean Connery....non dom ..never paid tax in UK..then tells the people of Scotland how to vote ....what a twat....if u don't pay your tax ..or live in another country why should you expect a vote....it was your choice ...get on with it ....ps when I retire to France I expect to live by there rules ....shame most who come to UK don't do that x Can I ask a serious question please? As a brexiteer who wants controls on borders immigration etc - which I understand - But why would you want to retire in France? Why not the Lake District or New Forrest - UK has some lovely locations - why become a migrant in France? . Why did you ? Well the definition of a migrant is to move to another country for a better life! Which about sums up why I moved. In addition to that I like French culture, cuisine, climate and just a better quality of life. I also was not liking the way the UK was becoming so I left. Satisfied? I love france and we go there as much as we can so I totally understand why you moved but the last sentence is ONE of the reasons people give who voted leave, yet you want the UK to remain, Im intersted to know your reasons, apart from any financial reason who might think I felt that we were becoming an aggressive society and that values had failed. "I'm alright " - selfish, materialistic and the "rules apply to everyone but me". Just look at the litter everywhere! So I did something about it - left. Just my opinion and instead of moaning I left and set up a new life here in France. 100% legal and proud of it. Pay my taxes a good citizen. You didn't do anything about it though, did you? You left, escaped.... ran away. And now you're complaining about not having any entitlement to have a say in how your ex-country is run? You expect to have a vote? You assume a lot - I left in Sept 13 - a referendum was not on the table. Most people will not appreciate the situation of someone being resident in another country! When I let it was my legal right to move to another state in Europe! I can appreciate my vote alone is not going to change the way the country is run, but when your looking at constitutional changes in a referendum as a British citizen I should have a vote. You clearly disagree but that's your opinion - I don't care ! As a British citizen I have the right to return to the UK at any time in the future if I choose to do so. But you won't return - look at the litter in the streets! If you feel that strongly about having a vote...then return! If you don't, then stay there!.
In order to protect their right to live and work in the Eu, they needed to not use this right, and move back to the uk. "Or, indeed, get citizenship of the country they now live in.... | |||
"It's not that we're trolls. I just have to ask How would it work ?. Let's just say Brexit doesn't happen and there is a new spirit of entente cordial. Would we have to set up parliament to have special MPs for Ex pats or could we cede more power to Brussels which would be the logical answer as we seek greater integration and the whole of Europe becomes a multinational state. I guess if the UK parliament was disbanded and the european parliament became the overall power with proportional representation electoral system it could be done. Europe would become a United Federal country and we would just be a small member state and all it's citizens are equal across all 27 or so members. Sorry, but I think you are missing the point of this posting. We are not arguing the result or the pros, cons of the UKs membership of the EU or what is going to happen to whom. The point that we are trying to make is that several million British people who live and work within the EU were denied the right to vote in something which has a direct and possibly catastrophic impact on their lives. With out wishing to repeat the previous posting but under the current laws of freedom of movement, choosing to live and work within another EU country is no different to deciding to move to Wales, Scotland or N.I. That is what freedom of movement is about. Just because we live in the EU does not change our nationality, we still have British passports but how effective they will be within the EU remains (no pun intended) to be seen. Do they loose the EU status in March, 2 years hence or when they expire?? who knows, but one thing is certain those of us who rely on them over here had precious little say in the matter. "Wouldn't that be a decision for thr EU to make, and not the UK government? | |||
" we still have British passports but how effective they will be within the EU remains (no pun intended) to be seen. Do they loose the EU status in March, 2 years hence or when they expire?? who knows, but one thing is certain those of us who rely on them over here had precious little say in the matter. "As from March 29, the UK will be a "third country". The current legal provisions of EU treaties will no longer apply, so a UK passport holder will no longer by considered a EU citizen. The exception is those who hold dual nationality. This is available to residents of Northern Ireland who, under the Good Friday Agreement, have equal rights to UK and Irish (and therefore EU) passports. | |||
" we still have British passports but how effective they will be within the EU remains (no pun intended) to be seen. Do they loose the EU status in March, 2 years hence or when they expire?? who knows, but one thing is certain those of us who rely on them over here had precious little say in the matter.
As from March 29, the UK will be a "third country". The current legal provisions of EU treaties will no longer apply, so a UK passport holder will no longer by considered a EU citizen.
The exception is those who hold dual nationality. This is available to residents of Northern Ireland who, under the Good Friday Agreement, have equal rights to UK and Irish (and therefore EU) passports.
"What have the EU saud about British Citizens living in the EU at the moment? Have they said, as we have with EU citizens already in the UK, that they will have the right to remain? | |||
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"No actually I haven't missed the point at all. I knew this Brexit fuckfest would open up more cans of worms than any human being could possibly deal with in the entire history of the human race. I did try and help you ex pats amongst other guys in the referendum by voting to remain along with all my foreign friends on the continent but I'm afraid we were just out voted by Boris and his save the NHS bus. I personally can utterly and completely see your point but unfortunately I just cannot see it ever happening as Ex pats will be seen as people having too much vested interest in a remain vote. If you have had a vote it's obvious you would have voted to remain because your pensions, medical care and other stuff potentially will stop being paid on the 29th March if a deal isn't reached However I think the votes of 10 DUP MPS will ultimately determine the fate of all of us. Hopefully they will see Common sense and back a deal of some sort so that we can all relax a bit come March 29th. After that perhaps we can have a little think about Ex Pat status and referendums before we have another one. It's a bit late to turn the clock back on that one if you'll forgive the pun." Yeap, regretfully that boat has already well and truly sailed, not a lot we can do about it all now. I just live in the profound hope (although one could rightfully say "fat chance" given the complete and utter travesty that those who supposedly represent the people seem to have created) that someone, somewhere will look at the whole picture, use the thing that holds their ears apart, apply a level of intelligence that goes beyond party political interest and sort this effing mess out.....for EVERYONE! Meanwhile, back at the OK Corral... | |||
