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Are the English bothered what happens to the Irish border?
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco?" Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities. | |||
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"Make it all one country .... simples" Please tell me that there's a large pinch of sarcasm in that comment. | |||
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"It’s not the Irish border, it’s the British border in Ireland. The Irish border is the beach."  | |||
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"Make it all one country .... simples Please tell me that there's a large pinch of sarcasm in that comment. " What is so wrong in Ireland becoming one country? | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities." I'd say you comment shows a greater lack of understanding for those that voted to leave and an even great lack of willingness to appreciate they have a very valid reason to leave. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities. I'd say you comment shows a greater lack of understanding for those that voted to leave and an even great lack of willingness to appreciate they have a very valid reason to leave." There were some good arguments to leave. But reading the absolute horse shit that the leave news papers print and some of the horrifically inaccurate nonsense that leavers post on here is frustrating. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco?" Swingers Chat? | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope." You have more chance of a MFFFFFF on here than get your wish of a second referendum. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities." so where did you get this gem from? Leavers don't understand or care. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities. I'd say you comment shows a greater lack of understanding for those that voted to leave and an even great lack of willingness to appreciate they have a very valid reason to leave. There were some good arguments to leave. But reading the absolute horse shit that the leave news papers print and some of the horrifically inaccurate nonsense that leavers post on here is frustrating." The last place to get understanding of the leavers views is from newspapers that have their own agendas. I could easily say the same printed by the stayers. Especially when they call for another referendum because they didn't like the result of the people. Displays a lack of understanding about a vote and a democratic society. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities. I'd say you comment shows a greater lack of understanding for those that voted to leave and an even great lack of willingness to appreciate they have a very valid reason to leave. There were some good arguments to leave. But reading the absolute horse shit that the leave news papers print and some of the horrifically inaccurate nonsense that leavers post on here is frustrating. The last place to get understanding of the leavers views is from newspapers that have their own agendas. I could easily say the same printed by the stayers. Especially when they call for another referendum because they didn't like the result of the people. Displays a lack of understanding about a vote and a democratic society." True and if a second referendum was to stay we would then need a third and a forth and a fifth and so on. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope." Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again." The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again." How is a referendum anything but a democratic voting system ? Deneying a second vote simply because you like the first result better and fear a second may not go your way is itself nonsense. (Not saying in pro a referendum. Just don’t think the reasons you give are valid !) | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities. I'd say you comment shows a greater lack of understanding for those that voted to leave and an even great lack of willingness to appreciate they have a very valid reason to leave. There were some good arguments to leave. But reading the absolute horse shit that the leave news papers print and some of the horrifically inaccurate nonsense that leavers post on here is frustrating. The last place to get understanding of the leavers views is from newspapers that have their own agendas. I could easily say the same printed by the stayers. Especially when they call for another referendum because they didn't like the result of the people. Displays a lack of understanding about a vote and a democratic society. True and if a second referendum was to stay we would then need a third and a forth and a fifth and so on. " No a second referendum would "only work" if leave won again. If they lost it would just mean leave are pissed off instead of remain. As a remainer I think brexit has to happen if only to prove who was right and who was wrong. Can't wait to see the results! Not long to wait and it will be a hard brexit because the border cannot be solved and keep everyone happy. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave " Think Wales did vote leave? | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave Think Wales did vote leave?" Don't let facts get in the way of a rant on a swingers site. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again." Admirable display of positive thinking, but I can’t help but wonder where these affirmative beliefs come from? As far as I am aware, there is nothing out there that points anything other than Brexit being a damage limitation exercise where the best possible Brexit is the one that does the least amount of damage to U.K. PLC. There is no upside at all to Brexit, certainly not economically or financially. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave " More remain lies? Just in case you missed it....Wales DID vote to leave.. And it was a UK referendum...not separate Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland referendums.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308 | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave More remain lies? Just in case you missed it....Wales DID vote to leave.. And it was a UK referendum...not separate Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland referendums.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308" No i saw it. However if you ask the Welsh they say they didn't want to leave. Not that i have asked every welsh person. Still not representative of the whole of the UK | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave More remain lies? Just in case you missed it....Wales DID vote to leave.. And it was a UK referendum...not separate Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland referendums.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308 No i saw it. However if you ask the Welsh they say they didn't want to leave. Not that i have asked every welsh person. Still not representative of the whole of the UK " Which part of a majority in Wales voted to leave are you failing to understand? | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again." All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. | |||
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"Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again." Do you honestly think the electorate was properly informed? And to be honest, referenda aren't particularly democratic; they're very easily manipulated by information. In the case of that particular referendum, the only "information" came from Vote Leave who could say pretty much what they wanted without having to verify it. The Remain campaign, ie. the government, couldn't make similarly bold claims because they were obliged to uphold certain standards of honesty and integrity! So if you think it was a "democratic" vote, it wasn't - it was a farce. And if, after 2 years of information and education you still want to leave, then you're an idiot. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave " Really? Even if that were true which it isn't how does that make it undemocratic? Location of a voter doesn't make a vote more or less democratic. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm." "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. | |||
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"Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. Do you honestly think the electorate was properly informed? And to be honest, referenda aren't particularly democratic; they're very easily manipulated by information. In the case of that particular referendum, the only "information" came from Vote Leave who could say pretty much what they wanted without having to verify it. The Remain campaign, ie. the government, couldn't make similarly bold claims because they were obliged to uphold certain standards of honesty and integrity! So if you think it was a "democratic" vote, it wasn't - it was a farce. And if, after 2 years of information and education you still want to leave, then you're an idiot." Lmao. So because I have an informed educated view which I feel isn't as manipulated as the fear induced as the scare mongeting stayers induced vote that I'm an idiot? So because I believe in a choice and it's not urs I'm an idiot? My friend if I may be so bold to say maybe you should open your eyes and be a bit more respectful to those who may hold a different and valid view to yourself. You obviously have little tolerance for anyone with a diferent view and seem to make it personal too. It would seem you have little understanding of debate and maybe then little knowledge of what it is you actually are debating. | |||
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"Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. Do you honestly think the electorate was properly informed? And to be honest, referenda aren't particularly democratic; they're very easily manipulated by information. In the case of that particular referendum, the only "information" came from Vote Leave who could say pretty much what they wanted without having to verify it. The Remain campaign, ie. the government, couldn't make similarly bold claims because they were obliged to uphold certain standards of honesty and integrity! So if you think it was a "democratic" vote, it wasn't - it was a farce. And if, after 2 years of information and education you still want to leave, then you're an idiot." Yet another remain inspired crock of shit. The reality is Both sides in the referendum in 2016 were held to account on what they said on websites like Fullfact, which were there to verify what was being said was true or false. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. "
This was mainly fear induced scare tactics to try and save the shares and stocks they had. Nothing to do with the greater good or benefits for everyone. As I said earlier the main thrust of the stayers campaign was to induce fear of the unknown. That's is certainly not a good policy and certainly not of people I'd like to take us forward with either.
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. " You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. | |||
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"Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. Do you honestly think the electorate was properly informed? And to be honest, referenda aren't particularly democratic; they're very easily manipulated by information. In the case of that particular referendum, the only "information" came from Vote Leave who could say pretty much what they wanted without having to verify it. The Remain campaign, ie. the government, couldn't make similarly bold claims because they were obliged to uphold certain standards of honesty and integrity! So if you think it was a "democratic" vote, it wasn't - it was a farce. And if, after 2 years of information and education you still want to leave, then you're an idiot. Yet another remain inspired crock of shit. The reality is Both sides in the referendum in 2016 were held to account on what they said on websites like Fullfact, which were there to verify what was being said was true or false. " It seems that the stayers have little arguments to put forward other than personalising abusive language. Come on if you want to be taken seriously speak respectfully and with a bit of an argument. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. " you like to quote minford a lot.... so do you agree with minford when he said this... “if we left the EU, it seems that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.” and this...... "economic suicide for the Agri-food industry" (thats food and farming for you and me" i'll hang up and listen...... | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think." I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. " Greece has never tried to leave the EU. Your vivid imagination is trumping the facts of the world around you. Making stuff up in order to suit a narrative is what I guess is known as alternative facts these days. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave More remain lies? Just in case you missed it....Wales DID vote to leave.. And it was a UK referendum...not separate Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland referendums.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308 No i saw it. However if you ask the Welsh they say they didn't want to leave. Not that i have asked every welsh person. Still not representative of the whole of the UK " "If you ask the Welsh, they say they didn't want to leave. Not that I have asked every Welsh person" More remainer logic for you! | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave More remain lies? Just in case you missed it....Wales DID vote to leave.. And it was a UK referendum...not separate Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland referendums.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308 No i saw it. However if you ask the Welsh they say they didn't want to leave. Not that i have asked every welsh person. Still not representative of the whole of the UK " Never let facts get in the way of opinion. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm." OpenEurope...whos head office is in Brussels.... Published a report last week that predicted in a 'no deal' scenario, the UK would be worse off by 0.17% GDP p.a. between now and 2030....but would still grow by 30% in that time. They further predicted that this shortfall could be mitigated to 0.04% per annum. So instead of 32% better off than now, we'll be somewhere between 30% and 31.7% better off. And this is before the boost to GDP of AI and increased automation, which they predict will add a further 10% to GDP. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. you like to quote minford a lot.... so do you agree with minford when he said this... “if we left the EU, it seems that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.” and this...... "economic suicide for the Agri-food industry" (thats food and farming for you and me" i'll hang up and listen......" I'll ask this... Just because one quotes someone on one thing does it automatically mean one will quote or agree with them on something else? Of course not. Ad far as manufacture goes... Our economy had been house/building based and not on manufacturing. We lost our manufacturing industry decades ago. One thing that all of this in this post shoes is that few people like or embrace change, yet change is inevitable. One thing that's guaranteed is some industries will suffer and others will take a boom. The secret to succeed is to see problems as solutions waiting to be found not negatives rather than seeing problems problems problems as negatives with little hope. Embrace it come to terms with things and move on. There's a lot of anger around displayed by those who lost their vote but seriously to personalise it in insults on a forum isn't very mature and usually means few will take what you seriously. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. Greece has never tried to leave the EU. Your vivid imagination is trumping the facts of the world around you. Making stuff up in order to suit a narrative is what I guess is known as alternative facts these days." I think you need to relook again at what happened and the blac*mailing that the Greek government had levied on them when they announced they were considering leaving the EU. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities. I'd say you comment shows a greater lack of understanding for those that voted to leave and an even great lack of willingness to appreciate they have a very valid reason to leave. There were some good arguments to leave. But reading the absolute horse shit that the leave news papers print and some of the horrifically inaccurate nonsense that leavers post on here is frustrating. The last place to get understanding of the leavers views is from newspapers that have their own agendas. I could easily say the same printed by the stayers. Especially when they call for another referendum because they didn't like the result of the people. Displays a lack of understanding about a vote and a democratic society. True and if a second referendum was to stay we would then need a third and a forth and a fifth and so on. " Why would we need a third and a forth and a fifth and so on? If we have another referendum that will already be the third (1975, 2016). Also if Leave wins again, even by a smaller margin, then wouldn't that absolutely confirm that, despite all the warnings, leaving is truly the will of the people? On the other hand if Remain won by 60% or more then clearly BREXIT is no longer the true will of the people and the issue is settled too. It's only if Remain win by a small margin that the neverendum scenario arises. The cards are truly stacked in Leaves favour. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave " Actually Wales did vote to Leave. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. you like to quote minford a lot.... so do you agree with minford when he said this... “if we left the EU, it seems that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.” and this...... "economic suicide for the Agri-food industry" (thats food and farming for you and me" i'll hang up and listen...... I'll ask this... Just because one quotes someone on one thing does it automatically mean one will quote or agree with them on something else? Of course not. Ad far as manufacture goes... Our economy had been house/building based and not on manufacturing. We lost our manufacturing industry decades ago. One thing that all of this in this post shoes is that few people like or embrace change, yet change is inevitable. One thing that's guaranteed is some industries will suffer and others will take a boom. The secret to succeed is to see problems as solutions waiting to be found not negatives rather than seeing problems problems problems as negatives with little hope. Embrace it come to terms with things and move on. There's a lot of anger around displayed by those who lost their vote but seriously to personalise it in insults on a forum isn't very mature and usually means few will take what you seriously." Aren’t his predictions on farming etc part of his wider analysis of how brexit will play. If you accept his analysis, I struggle to see how you can pick and choose the component parts which got him there. Let’s ignore the fact his brexit analysis seemed to be a) have little review or citations, b) based on a model most economists have rejected (my understanding is he’s not that respected in academic circles) And finally I don’t think he’s been knighted either .... | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave More remain lies? Just in case you missed it....Wales DID vote to leave.. And it was a UK referendum...not separate Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland referendums.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308" Sometimes people can just be mistaken. It doesn't necessarily mean they're lying. | |||
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"On the Greek issue that apparently are denying ever was considered. In 2012, "Plan Z" is the name given to a 2012 plan to enable Greece to withdraw from the eurozone in the event of Greek bank collapse.[31] It was drawn up in absolute secrecy by small teams totalling approximately two dozen officials at the EU Commission (Brussels), the European Central Bank (Frankfurt) and the IMF (Washington).[31] Those officials were headed by Jörg Asmussen (ECB), Thomas Wieser (Euro working group), Poul Thomsen (IMF) and Marco Buti (European Commission).[31 The German government's interference in theJanuary 2015 elections in Greece was strongly criticized by leaders of European Parliament groups including Socialists & Democrats (S&D), the liberal ALDE and theGreens/EFA group, when S&D presidentGianni Pittella said, "German right-wing forces trying to act like a sheriff in Greece or any other member states is not only unacceptable but above all wrong."[51] It has also been criticized by the German opposition party The Greens', with its speaker Simone Peter calling the debate over a Grexit "highly irresponsible".[50]" This actually only shows that Greece might have had to leave the Euro. That's not the same as leaving the EU. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. you like to quote minford a lot.... so do you agree with minford when he said this... “if we left the EU, it seems that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.” and this...... "economic suicide for the Agri-food industry" (thats food and farming for you and me" i'll hang up and listen...... I'll ask this... Just because one quotes someone on one thing does it automatically mean one will quote or agree with them on something else? Of course not. Ad far as manufacture goes... Our economy had been house/building based and not on manufacturing. We lost our manufacturing industry decades ago. One thing that all of this in this post shoes is that few people like or embrace change, yet change is inevitable. One thing that's guaranteed is some industries will suffer and others will take a boom. The secret to succeed is to see problems as solutions waiting to be found not negatives rather than seeing problems problems problems as negatives with little hope. Embrace it come to terms with things and move on. There's a lot of anger around displayed by those who lost their vote but seriously to personalise it in insults on a forum isn't very mature and usually means few will take what you seriously. Aren’t his predictions on farming etc part of his wider analysis of how brexit will play. If you accept his analysis, I struggle to see how you can pick and choose the component parts which got him there. Let’s ignore the fact his brexit analysis seemed to be a) have little review or citations, b) based on a model most economists have rejected (my understanding is he’s not that respected in academic circles) And finally I don’t think he’s been knighted either .... " Say what you like about Minford, but he said there wouldn't be a recession after a vote to leave in 2016 and he was proven right (while the many remain economists who predicted recession following a vote to leave in 2016 have been proven wrong). Besides as I said earlier it's not just Patrick Minford in economist circles who are saying Britain will be better off after Brexit, the chief economist at Germany's biggest bank also happens to agree and said Britain will thrive after Brexit. Deutsche Bank's David Folkerts-Landau said yesterday Britain would do "just as well or better" outside of the EU. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. you like to quote minford a lot.... so do you agree with minford when he said this... “if we left the EU, it seems that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.” and this...... "economic suicide for the Agri-food industry" (thats food and farming for you and me" i'll hang up and listen...... I'll ask this... Just because one quotes someone on one thing does it automatically mean one will quote or agree with them on something else? Of course not. Ad far as manufacture goes... Our economy had been house/building based and not on manufacturing. We lost our manufacturing industry decades ago. One thing that all of this in this post shoes is that few people like or embrace change, yet change is inevitable. One thing that's guaranteed is some industries will suffer and others will take a boom. The secret to succeed is to see problems as solutions waiting to be found not negatives rather than seeing problems problems problems as negatives with little hope. Embrace it come to terms with things and move on. There's a lot of anger around displayed by those who lost their vote but seriously to personalise it in insults on a forum isn't very mature and usually means few will take what you seriously. Aren’t his predictions on farming etc part of his wider analysis of how brexit will play. If you accept his analysis, I struggle to see how you can pick and choose the component parts which got him there. Let’s ignore the fact his brexit analysis seemed to be a) have little review or citations, b) based on a model most economists have rejected (my understanding is he’s not that respected in academic circles) And finally I don’t think he’s been knighted either .... Say what you like about Minford, but he said there wouldn't be a recession after a vote to leave in 2016 and he was proven right (while the many remain economists who predicted recession following a vote to leave in 2016 have been proven wrong). Besides as I said earlier it's not just Patrick Minford in economist circles who are saying Britain will be better off after Brexit, the chief economist at Germany's biggest bank also happens to agree and said Britain will thrive after Brexit. Deutsche Bank's David Folkerts-Landau said yesterday Britain would do "just as well or better" outside of the EU. " Over a generational period. (20 to 30 years). But the adjustment will be painful. So a bit of remain “recession” and a bit of Minford “all right”. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. you like to quote minford a lot.... so do you agree with minford when he said this... “if we left the EU, it seems that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing.” and this...... "economic suicide for the Agri-food industry" (thats food and farming for you and me" i'll hang up and listen...... I'll ask this... Just because one quotes someone on one thing does it automatically mean one will quote or agree with them on something else? Of course not. Ad far as manufacture goes... Our economy had been house/building based and not on manufacturing. We lost our manufacturing industry decades ago. One thing that all of this in this post shoes is that few people like or embrace change, yet change is inevitable. One thing that's guaranteed is some industries will suffer and others will take a boom. The secret to succeed is to see problems as solutions waiting to be found not negatives rather than seeing problems problems problems as negatives with little hope. Embrace it come to terms with things and move on. There's a lot of anger around displayed by those who lost their vote but seriously to personalise it in insults on a forum isn't very mature and usually means few will take what you seriously. Aren’t his predictions on farming etc part of his wider analysis of how brexit will play. If you accept his analysis, I struggle to see how you can pick and choose the component parts which got him there. Let’s ignore the fact his brexit analysis seemed to be a) have little review or citations, b) based on a model most economists have rejected (my understanding is he’s not that respected in academic circles) And finally I don’t think he’s been knighted either .... Say what you like about Minford, but he said there wouldn't be a recession after a vote to leave in 2016 and he was proven right (while the many remain economists who predicted recession following a vote to leave in 2016 have been proven wrong). Besides as I said earlier it's not just Patrick Minford in economist circles who are saying Britain will be better off after Brexit, the chief economist at Germany's biggest bank also happens to agree and said Britain will thrive after Brexit. Deutsche Bank's David Folkerts-Landau said yesterday Britain would do "just as well or better" outside of the EU. " They may be the biggest bank - but they are a "shakey" bank having made some disastrous business decision and having to re-structure. As for Minford - Thatchers administration took a lot of his advice and look what happened - sold off national assets at bargain prices. Killed off manufacturing in the UK and if course the amount of money lost by the bank of England supporting the £. Having said that at 75 he won't be around to shovel the shit will he see if his predictions come true? | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again." We had a referendum in 1975. Why did we need another then? The idea that democracy is a one off event is utterly facile | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. " Patrick Minford is in a minority of one. No proper economists agree with his one eyed analysis | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. " There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. | |||
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"Just a little correction for those on both sides of this debate who keep saying Britain is no longer a manufacturing nation. Depending on how you measure it Britain is the 6th or 7th largest manufacturing nation in the world. " so when minford even admits the decimation of both the manufacturing and agri-food sectors would be a consequence of brexit worth paying and would be in effect "collateral damage"... its still a hefty price to pay!!! | |||
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"Its a mess but we don't see why Northern Ireland should be separated from us by a customs border the EU members who think this is ok are totally deluded. " Because ourselves and the Irish signed and agreed to agreements in the form of a politically binding settlement, which uses the single market and customs union to foster trade and movement of people (families and communities) across the boarder. As such our bi-lateral agreement makes use of the EU mechanisms. Leaving the single market and customs union means doing two things; coming up with new mechanisms to replace the current features, and re-writting the legal documents so that the mechanisms are legally binding and accountable. | |||
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"On the Greek issue that apparently are denying ever was considered. In 2012, "Plan Z" is the name given to a 2012 plan to enable Greece to withdraw from the eurozone in the event of Greek bank collapse.[31] It was drawn up in absolute secrecy by small teams totalling approximately two dozen officials at the EU Commission (Brussels), the European Central Bank (Frankfurt) and the IMF (Washington).[31] Those officials were headed by Jörg Asmussen (ECB), Thomas Wieser (Euro working group), Poul Thomsen (IMF) and Marco Buti (European Commission).[31 The German government's interference in theJanuary 2015 elections in Greece was strongly criticized by leaders of European Parliament groups including Socialists & Democrats (S&D), the liberal ALDE and theGreens/EFA group, when S&D presidentGianni Pittella said, "German right-wing forces trying to act like a sheriff in Greece or any other member states is not only unacceptable but above all wrong."[51] It has also been criticized by the German opposition party The Greens', with its speaker Simone Peter calling the debate over a Grexit "highly irresponsible".[50]" Your hole is getting deeper. Do you not know the difference between the EU and the Eurozone? You can delude yourself with your made up facts but why spread fake news just to prove a point? Your claim that Greece tried to leave the EU and was prevented from doing so is just false. It was either a lie or ignorance. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think." Rubbish, many of us will be no worse off even in the advent of a no deal departure. I know my job, wages and pension will be the same. Not that any of them are up to much, but is my sweat and blood that is earning them. I still want BREXIT, and could still not give a fuck whether we have a deal with the EU or not. In fact I would be ecstatic if our departure was the match that lit the fire that saw it die. I also don’t care what any dullard remoaner has to say about me here or elsewhere... | |||
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"Make it all one country .... simples Please tell me that there's a large pinch of sarcasm in that comment. What is so wrong in Ireland becoming one country?" Well for a start, the majority of people in Northern Ireland would not be in favour of that and if the truth be known the majority of people in the rest of Ireland would not be keen on it either. The Irish question has always been thorny at Westminster. It’s just a pity that in 1845- 1847 there was not more support for Ireland during the famine from London ( when all of Ireland was in the UK) Things could have been different if so much resentment had not been festering which contributed to 1916 and then partition and then the troubles and now this mess which could could ignite violence again. Hopefully it will be resolved but I am not hopeful. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. " Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage." and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? | |||
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"On the Greek issue that apparently are denying ever was considered. In 2012, "Plan Z" is the name given to a 2012 plan to enable Greece to withdraw from the eurozone in the event of Greek bank collapse.[31] It was drawn up in absolute secrecy by small teams totalling approximately two dozen officials at the EU Commission (Brussels), the European Central Bank (Frankfurt) and the IMF (Washington).[31] Those officials were headed by Jörg Asmussen (ECB), Thomas Wieser (Euro working group), Poul Thomsen (IMF) and Marco Buti (European Commission).[31 The German government's interference in theJanuary 2015 elections in Greece was strongly criticized by leaders of European Parliament groups including Socialists & Democrats (S&D), the liberal ALDE and theGreens/EFA group, when S&D presidentGianni Pittella said, "German right-wing forces trying to act like a sheriff in Greece or any other member states is not only unacceptable but above all wrong."[51] It has also been criticized by the German opposition party The Greens', with its speaker Simone Peter calling the debate over a Grexit "highly irresponsible".[50] This actually only shows that Greece might have had to leave the Euro. That's not the same as leaving the EU. " Sorry...where again did I say they left? I said they tried but we're blac*mailed not too by Germany.... | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ?" It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage." We have a devalued currency, prices have gone up, inflation has increased....the £ isnt recovering is it? The economy was doing fine when it was E1.50 to the £ was it not? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move." Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target" Do you expect it to be exactly 2%? Not even the government or the Bank of England expect that! | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target" ONS figures show that average wages have risen above the rate of inflation in the UK. | |||
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" Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target ONS figures show that average wages have risen above the rate of inflation in the UK. " the reason why the 2% target was set is that is what most economists believe is a healthy sustainable level... if it going +/- 0.5% of that figure thats when the letter has to be sent explaining why from the BoE to the Chancellor... that letter is easy to write if it is lower.... basically not wanting to upset a fragile economy, not having interest rates go up to cripple borrowing for projects ect not such an easy letter to write now, because you have to use interest rates either to try and protect the strength of your currency, or to try and protect the economy and jobs.... the BoE chose the latter....the currency dived, your pound in your pocket is worth less than it was before, which means that inflation starts to rise! so its actually a circle as wages really have to go up in line with inflation, otherwise in real terms you are actually worse off.... which is why the agruement of a 1% pay rise for the public sector can be argued about when inflation is 0.5% pre vote.... but can't be argued when inflation is closer to 3% post vote, because millions of people are in effect worse off! if people are worse off... they can't spend, the economy slows down....people lose jobs ect ect ect..... | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target ONS figures show that average wages have risen above the rate of inflation in the UK. " between when and when ? | |||
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"between when and when ?" look at the ons figures this would about the first time this has happened in about 5 years........ | |||
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"between when and when ? look at the ons figures this would about the first time this has happened in about 5 years........" well our golden era was apparently between 1992-2008? We never had it so good? We enjoyed our best period of wealth improvement in the last 4 decades - can anyone remember - I can't! | |||
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" Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target ONS figures show that average wages have risen above the rate of inflation in the UK. the reason why the 2% target was set is that is what most economists believe is a healthy sustainable level... if it going +/- 0.5% of that figure thats when the letter has to be sent explaining why from the BoE to the Chancellor... that letter is easy to write if it is lower.... basically not wanting to upset a fragile economy, not having interest rates go up to cripple borrowing for projects ect not such an easy letter to write now, because you have to use interest rates either to try and protect the strength of your currency, or to try and protect the economy and jobs.... the BoE chose the latter....the currency dived, your pound in your pocket is worth less than it was before, which means that inflation starts to rise! so its actually a circle as wages really have to go up in line with inflation, otherwise in real terms you are actually worse off.... which is why the agruement of a 1% pay rise for the public sector can be argued about when inflation is 0.5% pre vote.... but can't be argued when inflation is closer to 3% post vote, because millions of people are in effect worse off! if people are worse off... they can't spend, the economy slows down....people lose jobs ect ect ect..... " It's 1% either way according to the BoE website, and in November 2015 Mark Carney wrote to the chancellor forecasting that inflation would be back up to 2-3% by end 2017. If inflation is falling, it encourages people to put off spending (in the hope of prices falling further), thus reducing demand, which in turn can lead to rising unemployment, lower wage rises. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco?" . Being honest, couldn't careless. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target Do you expect it to be exactly 2%? Not even the government or the Bank of England expect that!" Some expect it to be an exact science, bit like the lottery. When a market can suddenly plummet by a carefully worded phrase by someone as influential as Trump, any prediction is just that a prediction but no guarantee. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? Mixed bag mate. Leavers general don’t understand or care. The rest of us hope for a solution that works for the border communities." Again attacking leavers.Let me ask did you vote to remain because you where thinking about the Irish border problem?I am bloody certain you did not give it a thought.I guess that outside of Ireland 99% of voters did not consider this problem. My guess is some Irish in Ulster may want a border so they have an excuse to go to war on each other,yes very cynical and I do apologise the majority who may be offended by this remark but sadly there are vested interest involved here.It does sadden me | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... "No we should not we are British | |||
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"Just a little correction for those on both sides of this debate who keep saying Britain is no longer a manufacturing nation. Depending on how you measure it Britain is the 6th or 7th largest manufacturing nation in the world. so when minford even admits the decimation of both the manufacturing and agri-food sectors would be a consequence of brexit worth paying and would be in effect "collateral damage"... its still a hefty price to pay!!! " This has little to do with economics,you do not get it | |||
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"I am a little concerned what if it reignites the troubles and the bombings start again you really don't know who will use it for their own agenda. "True. Nothing says "listen to us, we're a modern progressive society" than the remains after a terrorist's bomb. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British"“British” is arbitrarily. It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc. | |||
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"Make it all one country .... simples" It is one country comprised of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. All its borders should have the same controls. The United Kingdom has had porous borders for too long. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target Do you expect it to be exactly 2%? Not even the government or the Bank of England expect that! Some expect it to be an exact science, bit like the lottery. When a market can suddenly plummet by a carefully worded phrase by someone as influential as Trump, any prediction is just that a prediction but no guarantee." You can't have another election. It would not be democratic. Great Britain is founded on democratic principles. You are advocating the principles of a dictatorship. What if a second referendum produced the same result? Would you want a third election? What if that produced the same result? What would you do then? Interesting quote by Mr Winston Churchill who often added on the bottom of his correspondence when he required a reply regarding action taken. The quote was "Please let me have your reply on one side of one sheet of paper". | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. All the economists, financial experts, leaders of industry, anyone who understands the complex systems says we will be much worse off. On the other hand, random bloke on the Internet guarantees that we will be fine. Hmmmmm. "ALL" the economists, you say? Sorry but that's complete bollocks. Highly respected economists like Sir Patrick Minford among others say we'll be better off after Brexit. Also all these economists, financial experts, leaders of Industry you reference, are they the same ones who predicted a recession in 2016 following a vote to leave and a whole host of other doom and gloom scenarios that never materialised? Sorry but the credibility of these jokers you refer to has been shot to pieces over the last 2 years with the ridiculous predictions they've made which simply haven't happened. You must be one of the only leavers still flogging this dead horse. Most of you have recognised that we will be poorer and that the other “benefits” are worth the hit to the economy. Just saying the opposite of the truth and pretending it’s fact is meaningless. Opinions are irrelevant. We’ve already taken a significant hit and there is much worse to come. Like those people who don’t think climate change is happening. Opinions don’t matter. It’s happening regardless of of what they think. I've never met anyone on either side who denied that the economy would take a hit. What I have seen is and will continue to say as always, our economy will not be as bad as most stayers tried to predict. The sterling never dropped below the euro. It will slowly regain it's position back to were it was too. The main reason is that London was is and will continue to be the world's center for finance. The markets can fluctuate with scary results simply by a few words from someone like Trump but they will level again. Markets are like scales they go up and down but will level off sooner or later... They have to by the very nature of how money is made from them. As far as the boarder issue in Ireland is concerned, yes this will be an interesting one but the Irish prim yesterday showed again the scare munging approach by saying if there's a hard border then it will bring back all the fighting and killing like it was in the past.... bollix. That's not what the people want, but it is what some want. Whatever is set up people will adapt to it but our very own nature we learn to make the best of it. The EU is a sinking ship, has been since before Greece tried to leave and Germany black mailed them by holding back billions which were owed to them, thus freezing any economic growth that would have happened if they could have left. The EU is trying the same and even harder with the UK. Main reason is the UK was one one of the biggest contributers and as such will have a huge effect on the finance pot the other bleeding countries have upon EU resources. There is no basis for assuming that the £ will strengthen significantly against the Euro...none whatsoever. It's been bouncing around 1.10 to 1.14 for well over a year. It was 1.29 the day before the referendum. Yep, and at that time the IMF said the high value of the pound was damaging the UK economy, and would need to devalue by up to 20% to avoid longer term economic damage.and aren’t they currently saying there could be another 15% fall under a disorderly brexit ? It will continue to bounce until Brexit has been complete. ..As is the nature of stock markets until stability is clearly seen by many. Inflation is at such a low it has to rise to make progress forward. ..And 1 to 4 % is negligible unless you've not towed to beneath your skin in the hope of reaping it's benefits in an unwise move. Inflation is 2.4%. Above the BoE target Do you expect it to be exactly 2%? Not even the government or the Bank of England expect that! Some expect it to be an exact science, bit like the lottery. When a market can suddenly plummet by a carefully worded phrase by someone as influential as Trump, any prediction is just that a prediction but no guarantee. You can't have another election. It would not be democratic. Great Britain is founded on democratic principles. You are advocating the principles of a dictatorship. What if a second referendum produced the same result? Would you want a third election? What if that produced the same result? What would you do then? Interesting quote by Mr Winston Churchill who often added on the bottom of his correspondence when he required a reply regarding action taken. The quote was "Please let me have your reply on one side of one sheet of paper"." You’re describing democracy. Constantly evolving laws and decisions. Otherwise we would just make the laws on day one and we wouldn’t need any government or referendums etc | |||
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"Just a little correction for those on both sides of this debate who keep saying Britain is no longer a manufacturing nation. Depending on how you measure it Britain is the 6th or 7th largest manufacturing nation in the world. so when minford even admits the decimation of both the manufacturing and agri-food sectors would be a consequence of brexit worth paying and would be in effect "collateral damage"... its still a hefty price to pay!!! This has little to do with economics,you do not get it" do you know how many jobs are in uk manufacturing... and the uk agri-food sectors? i'm really curious if you actually know... if this decision has in your words "got little to do with the economy" you might as well have said "i don't really care about making myself poorer for the next 20/30/50 years (choose number based on who you believe and report you read) its a bit like saying... i'm right handed so i don't really need my left hand! i know, i'll chop it off.... its just streamlining!!!!.... centy for example was crowing about a report from a Eurosceptic think-tank, open europe, that said we would be a lot worse off, but with their suggestion it could made up to only be a little poorer over the next 20 years is that where we have gotten to.... | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc. "It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU."I would have gladly accepted. And taken an Irish EU passport, then I could live in UK or Ireland. Which would be great. Just as great as we’ve had it for the past however many years lol. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
I would have gladly accepted. And taken an Irish EU passport, then I could live in UK or Ireland. Which would be great. Just as great as we’ve had it for the past however many years lol."may need to pick your brain and i may e-mail ya later... have the irish passport forms in the cupboard and waiting to see what is going to happen before filling them out | |||
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"Just a little correction for those on both sides of this debate who keep saying Britain is no longer a manufacturing nation. Depending on how you measure it Britain is the 6th or 7th largest manufacturing nation in the world. so when minford even admits the decimation of both the manufacturing and agri-food sectors would be a consequence of brexit worth paying and would be in effect "collateral damage"... its still a hefty price to pay!!! This has little to do with economics,you do not get it do you know how many jobs are in uk manufacturing... and the uk agri-food sectors? i'm really curious if you actually know... if this decision has in your words "got little to do with the economy" you might as well have said "i don't really care about making myself poorer for the next 20/30/50 years (choose number based on who you believe and report you read) its a bit like saying... i'm right handed so i don't really need my left hand! i know, i'll chop it off.... its just streamlining!!!!.... centy for example was crowing about a report from a Eurosceptic think-tank, open europe, that said we would be a lot worse off, but with their suggestion it could made up to only be a little poorer over the next 20 years is that where we have gotten to.... " Where was I 'crowing' about this???? Or are you just making shit up again on here  | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
I would have gladly accepted. And taken an Irish EU passport, then I could live in UK or Ireland. Which would be great. Just as great as we’ve had it for the past however many years lol.
may need to pick your brain and i may e-mail ya later... have the irish passport forms in the cupboard and waiting to see what is going to happen before filling them out" | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
I would have gladly accepted. And taken an Irish EU passport, then I could live in UK or Ireland. Which would be great. Just as great as we’ve had it for the past however many years lol."Since before the EU. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
I would have gladly accepted. And taken an Irish EU passport, then I could live in UK or Ireland. Which would be great. Just as great as we’ve had it for the past however many years lol.
Since before the EU. "You can't quote "before we joined" for the simple reason it's not the same now! It's like saying before the petrol engine we had steam - it's changed. Terrorism, treaties etc have been put in place - you can't go back in time for this very reason. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
I would have gladly accepted. And taken an Irish EU passport, then I could live in UK or Ireland. Which would be great. Just as great as we’ve had it for the past however many years lol.
Since before the EU.
You can't quote "before we joined" for the simple reason it's not the same now!
It's like saying before the petrol engine we had steam - it's changed. Terrorism, treaties etc have been put in place - you can't go back in time for this very reason."Was there free movement between Ireland and the UK before we joined? | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU."Be careful what you wish for. Your too young to remember "the brain drain" in the 60-70's - and if your plan to repatriate (voluntary) EU citizens - all working in the system etc but the EU reciprocate with the "old folk" - you will see how well the NHS & SOCIAL SERVICES cope with a big influx of costly citizens! | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU."You are just being daft now. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
You are just being daft now."I refuse to take a political section of a swinging site seriously. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
You are just being daft now.
I refuse to take a political section of a swinging site seriously. "but yet... you wish to troll! | |||
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"Abolish all borders. I voted remain so it's all a pile of shit abyway." If there are no borders how can you possibly have a government or country or social care or social housing, or social medicine, or have any meaningful vote about anything. Tired of listening to these totally unrealistic philosophical one liners and soundbites. Abolish all borders my ass. And I say this as a migrant to this country. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
You are just being daft now.
I refuse to take a political section of a swinging site seriously.
but yet... you wish to troll! "I like to fish, they like my bait. Everyone's happy. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. We had a referendum in 1975. Why did we need another then? The idea that democracy is a one off event is utterly facile" Because the EU now is very different to how it was in 1975. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. We had a referendum in 1975. Why did we need another then? The idea that democracy is a one off event is utterly facile Because the EU now is very different to how it was in 1975." ...as is Britain in just 2 short years, that feel like 100 lifetimes  | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... "And if you knew about the British Isles, you would know never to refer to the Orkneys or Shetlands, but to Orkney or the Orkney Islands and Shetland or the Shetland Islands. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
You are just being daft now."You can if your permanent address is in Northern Ireland. Any resident can apply for dual nationality, thereby retaining EU citizenship. I smile wearily every time I hear Mrs Foster insist NI must not be treated differently from the rest of the UK - it already is, in so many ways that her party supports. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU."What's stopping them from doing that. They can all apply. Many may already have EU nationality. We've all forgotten the people did vote to leave... | |||
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"On the Greek issue that apparently are denying ever was considered. In 2012, "Plan Z" is the name given to a 2012 plan to enable Greece to withdraw from the eurozone in the event of Greek bank collapse.[31] It was drawn up in absolute secrecy by small teams totalling approximately two dozen officials at the EU Commission (Brussels), the European Central Bank (Frankfurt) and the IMF (Washington).[31] Those officials were headed by Jörg Asmussen (ECB), Thomas Wieser (Euro working group), Poul Thomsen (IMF) and Marco Buti (European Commission).[31 The German government's interference in theJanuary 2015 elections in Greece was strongly criticized by leaders of European Parliament groups including Socialists & Democrats (S&D), the liberal ALDE and theGreens/EFA group, when S&D presidentGianni Pittella said, "German right-wing forces trying to act like a sheriff in Greece or any other member states is not only unacceptable but above all wrong."[51] It has also been criticized by the German opposition party The Greens', with its speaker Simone Peter calling the debate over a Grexit "highly irresponsible".[50] This actually only shows that Greece might have had to leave the Euro. That's not the same as leaving the EU. Sorry...where again did I say they left? I said they tried but we're blac*mailed not too by Germany.... " No where. Where did I say you had? What I said was this only shows that Greece might have had to leave the Euro. That's not the same as leaving the EU. | |||
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"Us remainers see the Irish Border Issue as exactly the spanner-in-the-works we need to derail the whole process. It means very little to the average person-in-the-English-street, but if, like me, you're praying for a second referendum so we can put a halt to this ridiculous self-inflicted financial suicide, it's a glimmer of hope. Seriously.. What about the democratic voting system? A call for a second referendum because you don't like the first is nonsense. And this is anything but financial suicide. I'll guarantee this. Financial markets which have all settled will have another blip before March because some powerful people can cause them to surge at will. Then they will settle shortly afterwards and watch the sterling rise slowly again. We had a referendum in 1975. Why did we need another then? The idea that democracy is a one off event is utterly facile Because the EU now is very different to how it was in 1975." And the BREXIT we're getting is very different to how it was sold in 2016. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
What's stopping them from doing that. They can all apply. Many may already have EU nationality.
We've all forgotten the people did vote to leave... "No the people did not vote to leave. 27% of the people voted to leave. | |||
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"It’s not the Irish border, it’s the British border in Ireland. The Irish border is the beach." Good quote from Dara Ó Briain there  | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
What's stopping them from doing that. They can all apply. Many may already have EU nationality.
We've all forgotten the people did vote to leave...
No the people did not vote to leave. 27% of the people voted to leave. "Yes the people DID vote to leave. 52% of the voting electorate voted to Leave. | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
What's stopping them from doing that. They can all apply. Many may already have EU nationality.
We've all forgotten the people did vote to leave...
No the people did not vote to leave. 27% of the people voted to leave.
Yes the people DID vote to leave. 52% of the voting electorate voted to Leave. "Amazing what you can do with figures - Yes your both correct! #alternative facts | |||
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"It’s an English border OP! The English divided the country! Ireland’s border runs amongst the waves!" soneone should tell the EU this ... | |||
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"& many people over here see themselves as British rather than English..., the Northern Irish are as much part of Britain as Yorkshire, Gwyndd or the Orkneys are - but we should all be part of the EU... No we should not we are British
“British” is arbitrarily.
It’s perfectly valid to consider yourself, European, Bristish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Brummy etc.
It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU.
What's stopping them from doing that. They can all apply. Many may already have EU nationality.
We've all forgotten the people did vote to leave...
No the people did not vote to leave. 27% of the people voted to leave. "Less than 400 people voted to join in the first place..... | |||
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" It's a shame those citizens of the EU who want to remain, arn't being offered the opportunity to repatriate into the remaining member states of the EU. You are just being daft now. You can if your permanent address is in Northern Ireland. Any resident can apply for dual nationality, thereby retaining EU citizenship. I smile wearily every time I hear Mrs Foster insist NI must not be treated differently from the rest of the UK - it already is, in so many ways that her party supports." what... you mean like *cough* abortion rights for women *cough*.... just saying.... also i do think that this is interesting because the people who this does affect the most actually voted in the majority to remain (a lot) but are then being told but those 100's of miles away to "get over it"...... that's just a observation by the way.... not a dig! | |||
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"It’s an English border OP! The English divided the country! Ireland’s border runs amongst the waves!" Ya, Dara Ó Briain already covered that one | |||
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"It’s an English border OP! The English divided the country! Ireland’s border runs amongst the waves!" To be fair, if it's not a British border it's far more a Scottish borders than an English border. But let's call it what it is, not an English border (that border is at Scotland, Wales and the beach), not a Scottish borders (that border is at England and the beach) nor an Irish border (that is at the beach) but a British border (that border is at Eire and the beach). | |||
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"Make it all one country .... simples Please tell me that there's a large pinch of sarcasm in that comment. What is so wrong in Ireland becoming one country?" Well that depends on whether you want a return to sectarian violence. | |||
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"It’s not the Irish border, it’s the British border in Ireland. The Irish border is the beach." News quiz? | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco?" From a Scottish perspective we can't figure it out. The two nails in the coffin for the independence referendum were: If you leave the union you leave Europe. The only way to stay in Europe is to stay in the Union. If you leave the union then there must be a hard border between Scotland and England. There is option for a soft border. So we vote to stay by a narrow margin and suddenly we are out of Europe and soft borders are now a thing. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? From a Scottish perspective we can't figure it out. The two nails in the coffin for the independence referendum were: If you leave the union you leave Europe. The only way to stay in Europe is to stay in the Union. If you leave the union then there must be a hard border between Scotland and England. There is option for a soft border. So we vote to stay by a narrow margin and suddenly we are out of Europe and soft borders are now a thing. " We're not out of Europe, and neither are you.... | |||
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" We're not out of Europe, and neither are you...." Very true but it does seem inevitable unless the second vote happens. | |||
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" We're not out of Europe, and neither are you.... Very true but it does seem inevitable unless the second vote happens." The EU is not Europe, and Europe is not the EU. | |||
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" We're not out of Europe, and neither are you.... Very true but it does seem inevitable unless the second vote happens. The EU is not Europe, and Europe is not the EU." I think most people know that. I also suspect that you know that, within the context of BREXIT, Europe is short for European Union. | |||
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" We're not out of Europe, and neither are you.... Very true but it does seem inevitable unless the second vote happens. The EU is not Europe, and Europe is not the EU. I think most people know that. I also suspect that you know that, within the context of BREXIT, Europe is short for European Union." Europe may be short for the European Union in the context of REMAIN, but not in the context of Brexit. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? From a Scottish perspective we can't figure it out. The two nails in the coffin for the independence referendum were: If you leave the union you leave Europe. The only way to stay in Europe is to stay in the Union. If you leave the union then there must be a hard border between Scotland and England. There is option for a soft border. So we vote to stay by a narrow margin and suddenly we are out of Europe and soft borders are now a thing. " I did some data about the effect of the Brexit vote on Scottish opinion. The overall needle - 45 % or so for independence - did not move much. But beneath the headline figure there was a significant demographic change. The middle class voter who voted No in 2014 was now more inclined to vote Yes as a means of keeping their European identity. The working class voter who voted Yes in 2014 was now more inclined to Vote No as a means of keeping their British identity. The Nats really need to be hitting 60 in the polls before they have a second shot at this. I wonder if people will look at how difficult it is to extricate the UK from the EU after 40+ years of integration, and realise how difficult it will be to extricate Scotland from the UK after 300+ years of integration. That said, it is the logical next step in the "taking back control" ideology. | |||
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"Just wondering what the man/woman in the English street is on this whole fiasco? From a Scottish perspective we can't figure it out. The two nails in the coffin for the independence referendum were: If you leave the union you leave Europe. The only way to stay in Europe is to stay in the Union. If you leave the union then there must be a hard border between Scotland and England. There is option for a soft border. So we vote to stay by a narrow margin and suddenly we are out of Europe and soft borders are now a thing. I did some data about the effect of the Brexit vote on Scottish opinion. The overall needle - 45 % or so for independence - did not move much. But beneath the headline figure there was a significant demographic change. The middle class voter who voted No in 2014 was now more inclined to vote Yes as a means of keeping their European identity. The working class voter who voted Yes in 2014 was now more inclined to Vote No as a means of keeping their British identity. The Nats really need to be hitting 60 in the polls before they have a second shot at this. I wonder if people will look at how difficult it is to extricate the UK from the EU after 40+ years of integration, and realise how difficult it will be to extricate Scotland from the UK after 300+ years of integration. That said, it is the logical next step in the "taking back control" ideology. " Europe is conflicted. On one hand it does not want the UK leaving the EU to be an easy process with a successful outcome ( as might influence other countries to consider their options ) and on the other hand has its own self interest to think about. | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later?" Bring back the ford escort, 3 days weeks, power cuts, water rationing and dial phone boxes. Lots of reasons why it is more difficult, we are all wealthier, most industry is now global and we have regulatory agreements on many more industries than occured in the past. | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later?" The world in 2018 is vastly different from the world we left behind in 1973. Technology for one thing. In 1973, I imagine Brussels and London communicated by telegram and shared documents using a sheet of carbon paper in their typewriters. | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later?" It's simple to integrate an egg into flour to make a cake mix. It's a little bit more complicated getting the egg out | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later? "It's simple to integrate an egg into flour to make a cake mix. It's a little bit more complicated getting the egg out" " I don't see the analogy. Except, I would say that too many cooks spoil the broth and if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. Not hard to see why the EU has an exceptionally high bill for administration if 27 nations have to meet and agree on everything. Sir Winston Churchill when corresponding with beaurocrats used to add a handwritten note to the bottom of his memos. The handwritten note said "let me have your answer on one side of one sheet of paper". If another vote to stay or go produces a result where a lot more than 52% vote to leave, what then? Will the remainers accept that vote or will they want another vote on the matter? | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later? "It's simple to integrate an egg into flour to make a cake mix. It's a little bit more complicated getting the egg out" I don't see the analogy. Except, I would say that too many cooks spoil the broth and if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. Not hard to see why the EU has an exceptionally high bill for administration if 27 nations have to meet and agree on everything. Sir Winston Churchill when corresponding with beaurocrats used to add a handwritten note to the bottom of his memos. The handwritten note said "let me have your answer on one side of one sheet of paper". If another vote to stay or go produces a result where a lot more than 52% vote to leave, what then? Will the remainers accept that vote or will they want another vote on the matter? " Wait until you see how much it will cost the U.K. to replicate the Agencies and staff needed to put a U.K. centric framework back into place. Economies of scale do actually work. | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later? "It's simple to integrate an egg into flour to make a cake mix. It's a little bit more complicated getting the egg out" I don't see the analogy. Except, I would say that too many cooks spoil the broth and if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. Not hard to see why the EU has an exceptionally high bill for administration if 27 nations have to meet and agree on everything. Sir Winston Churchill when corresponding with beaurocrats used to add a handwritten note to the bottom of his memos. The handwritten note said "let me have your answer on one side of one sheet of paper". If another vote to stay or go produces a result where a lot more than 52% vote to leave, what then? Will the remainers accept that vote or will they want another vote on the matter? Wait until you see how much it will cost the U.K. to replicate the Agencies and staff needed to put a U.K. centric framework back into place. Economies of scale do actually work." Funnily enough I have just received an email detailing expenses for Oct 18 over £25,000 for dept for exiting the EU;: £40,000 management services £720,000 consultancy by an American company £74,000 travel £1.2 million legal advice That's just 1 months expenses over £25,000 - there are wages pensions, utilities etc etc. All coming out of the pot - how would that have helped with - social care? | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later? "It's simple to integrate an egg into flour to make a cake mix. It's a little bit more complicated getting the egg out" I don't see the analogy. Except, I would say that too many cooks spoil the broth and if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. Not hard to see why the EU has an exceptionally high bill for administration if 27 nations have to meet and agree on everything. Sir Winston Churchill when corresponding with beaurocrats used to add a handwritten note to the bottom of his memos. The handwritten note said "let me have your answer on one side of one sheet of paper". If another vote to stay or go produces a result where a lot more than 52% vote to leave, what then? Will the remainers accept that vote or will they want another vote on the matter? " That's the whole problem with BREXIT shown here. If people cannot understand how much we have been interwoven with an economic bloc over 40 years of membership and can't understand why dissecting ourselves from it is a massive complicated process then it's just the sheer lack of understanding from start to finish that's got us to where we are right now. No need to take this as slagging people off, it's not at all, it's simply the fact that people just don't know or understand how things change over time and you can't just rip yourself away without humongous strife. | |||
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"This country, Great Britain, once was was ripped away suddenly from Europe overnight. On 14 June 1940 Churchill gave the order to evacuate the last British troops in France. 200,000 troops were evacuated from Cherbourg, Brest and other channel ports leaving behind almost all their military transport and equipment. From then onwards for the next few years the only thing received from Europe were planeloads of thousands of pounds of highly explosive bombs with the intention of killing and maiming as many as possible of the inhabitants of the British Isles. " Not quite. The 51st Highland Division at Valery were abandoned. Deliberately. You've been reading too many hung-ho comics. Nothing about the war was glorious. | |||
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"This country, Great Britain, once was was ripped away suddenly from Europe overnight. On 14 June 1940 Churchill gave the order to evacuate the last British troops in France. 200,000 troops were evacuated from Cherbourg, Brest and other channel ports leaving behind almost all their military transport and equipment. From then onwards for the next few years the only thing received from Europe were planeloads of thousands of pounds of highly explosive bombs with the intention of killing and maiming as many as possible of the inhabitants of the British Isles. " and..... I really don't know what you are getting at to be honest. | |||
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"This country, Great Britain, once was was ripped away suddenly from Europe overnight. On 14 June 1940 Churchill gave the order to evacuate the last British troops in France. 200,000 troops were evacuated from Cherbourg, Brest and other channel ports leaving behind almost all their military transport and equipment. From then onwards for the next few years the only thing received from Europe were planeloads of thousands of pounds of highly explosive bombs with the intention of killing and maiming as many as possible of the inhabitants of the British Isles. " You've lost me. What has this got to do with Brexit? | |||
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"It was not difficult to integrate with Europe 40 years ago. Why should it be difficult to extricate from Europe 40 years later? "It's simple to integrate an egg into flour to make a cake mix. It's a little bit more complicated getting the egg out" I don't see the analogy. Except, I would say that too many cooks spoil the broth and if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. Not hard to see why the EU has an exceptionally high bill for administration if 27 nations have to meet and agree on everything. Sir Winston Churchill when corresponding with beaurocrats used to add a handwritten note to the bottom of his memos. The handwritten note said "let me have your answer on one side of one sheet of paper". If another vote to stay or go produces a result where a lot more than 52% vote to leave, what then? Will the remainers accept that vote or will they want another vote on the matter? Wait until you see how much it will cost the U.K. to replicate the Agencies and staff needed to put a U.K. centric framework back into place. Economies of scale do actually work. Funnily enough I have just received an email detailing expenses for Oct 18 over £25,000 for dept for exiting the EU;: £40,000 management services £720,000 consultancy by an American company £74,000 travel £1.2 million legal advice That's just 1 months expenses over £25,000 - there are wages pensions, utilities etc etc. All coming out of the pot - how would that have helped with - social care?" You are completely missing the point - for the U.K. to be able to organise, maintain and run its own independent standards agencies for food, medicine, energy, aviation and God knows what else, the U.K. will have to re-create the jobs that were delegated to the equivalent European Agencies that know undertakes those functions. In reality, this is a Brexit positive in respect of jobs because many, many more jobs will have to be created at places like DEFRA, Home Office, HMRC and the CAA but obviously there will be a cost to these new jobs. | |||
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" The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave " Countries didn't vote people do, we voted on the UKs future relationship with the EU, not as England, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales but as a nation as a whole. All votes counted, irrespective of where they were cast. | |||
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" The English vote doesn't make it democratic.... Scotland, Ireland and Wales didn't vote to leave " Actually, you might want to check your facts. The people of Wales DID votebto leave the EU | |||
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"EVERY single person in Britain is wondering when they can go back to not knowing or caring who or what the DUP is, research has confirmed. With the ultra conservative Northern Irish Party now having some sort of daily say in British life, 100 percent of people have confirmed they genuinely wish they would just fuck right off. Tom Booker said, “What I love about Arlene Foster is, well, I’ll be honest, I have absolutely no way of finishing that sentence. Actually, no wait, I’ve got one. “What I love about Arlene Foster is that due to the democratic and ever changing nature of politics she will definitely, at some point in the future, definitely, definitely, have to fuck right off my TV screen.” “And with any luck she’ll also take her hate filled, archaic, clown-shoe opinions with her.” Emma Bradford added: “I didn’t know anything about the DUP until Theresa May shat one and had to make some sort of deal with them.” “Now I know that they’re anti-abortion, anti-same sex marriage and they opposed the Good Friday Agreement. Well, I can see why none of my mates ever told me I should check them out.” Martin Bishop added, “I like the look of that Sammy Wilson bloke. Actually, sorry that’s not Sammy Wilson. My TV just got stuck on an early episode of Minder which was about a dodgy second hand car dealer who spends all day in the pub drinking pints of mild but I’m sure you can understand my confusion.”" Love this!!’ | |||
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"Yes they do, but you will find it is the brexiters that are not bothered with that, you can ask anyone of them and they will never mention the border, it is them that dont respect the good friday agreement." Sorry Shag, but that is complete bollocks. I voted leave and absolutely don't want to see a hard border in Ireland - at least not one that would be put in place by our government. | |||
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"Yes they do, but you will find it is the brexiters that are not bothered with that, you can ask anyone of them and they will never mention the border, it is them that dont respect the good friday agreement." You are right they view a hard border a price worth paying to get the brexit they want. They have said we must all suffer for a better future,the people they want to suffer most are those in EU countries of course. | |||
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