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Scottish march for independence
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do."
It’s good the people are organising. I hope they get independence if that’s what they want. I don’t know if they will get it, we can see how fucked up things get when people vote on such things.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If they get independence then good on em, though I don't understand why they'd hand over independence to the eu. Especially when the eu said Scotland couldn't join the euro, but hey ho |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh they are a desperate though it has to be said sizeable rump being played for fools by the SNP leadership.
MsSturgeon knows she will not either be allowed a referendum...That is her preferred option..then it is all Westminsters fault blah blah blah
Or worse they get permission and almost certainly lose and it is all over for all those SNP snouts in the trough  |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do."
Oh the irony
Yet you deride the uk wanting to gain our independence from the EU I would love you to explain why its good that Scotland want to be on their own but bad for the UK.
If the scots want to leave the UK that would be sad as we have been a country for 300 years BUT if they vote to do so I wish them well and would expect the rest of the UK to help them prosper. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do.
Oh the irony
Yet you deride the uk wanting to gain our independence from the EU I would love you to explain why its good that Scotland want to be on their own but bad for the UK.
If the scots want to leave the UK that would be sad as we have been a country for 300 years BUT if they vote to do so I wish them well and would expect the rest of the UK to help them prosper."
Being part of the EU did not stop us from being an independent nation. This is the kind of utter bullshit that Daily Mail readers believe and why the country is in the mess it’s in. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do.
Oh the irony
Yet you deride the uk wanting to gain our independence from the EU I would love you to explain why its good that Scotland want to be on their own but bad for the UK.
If the scots want to leave the UK that would be sad as we have been a country for 300 years BUT if they vote to do so I wish them well and would expect the rest of the UK to help them prosper.
Being part of the EU did not stop us from being an independent nation. This is the kind of utter bullshit that Daily Mail readers believe and why the country is in the mess it’s in. "
Does scotland have its own parliament, can it set some of its own tax rates, can the UK decide who does and does not come into the country, where is the top court based is it in this country? Doesnt sound any more independant to me BUT and its a huge but the eu is moving towards ever closer political and monetary union and ultimately a single united states of Europe |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do.
Oh the irony
Yet you deride the uk wanting to gain our independence from the EU I would love you to explain why its good that Scotland want to be on their own but bad for the UK.
If the scots want to leave the UK that would be sad as we have been a country for 300 years BUT if they vote to do so I wish them well and would expect the rest of the UK to help them prosper.
Being part of the EU did not stop us from being an independent nation. This is the kind of utter bullshit that Daily Mail readers believe and why the country is in the mess it’s in.
Does scotland have its own parliament, can it set some of its own tax rates, can the UK decide who does and does not come into the country, where is the top court based is it in this country? Doesnt sound any more independant to me BUT and its a huge but the eu is moving towards ever closer political and monetary union and ultimately a single united states of Europe"
In your lifetime? A bit like Turkey joining the EU soon? Can you give an example of 3 EU laws which have adversely affect your life? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"united states of Europe
In your lifetime? A bit like Turkey joining the EU soon? Can you give an example of 3 EU laws which have adversely affect your life?"
Ok here are three.
1 Working time directive interferes with peoples right to work how they want and an employers needs
2 tampon tax
3 As a farmer the list of the rules and regs that damage uk/eu ag is long.
Now answer me this
A has the eu enacted a reg that says NO country can leave unless the majority say they can?
B Do you accept that the long term goal is a US of E.
That means in time we would have been forced into the US of E, would we have been given a choice, or like the Irish told to keep voting until we give the right answer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"united states of Europe
In your lifetime? A bit like Turkey joining the EU soon? Can you give an example of 3 EU laws which have adversely affect your life?
Ok here are three.
1 Working time directive interferes with peoples right to work how they want and an employers needs
2 tampon tax
3 As a farmer the list of the rules and regs that damage uk/eu ag is long.
Now answer me this
A has the eu enacted a reg that says NO country can leave unless the majority say they can?
B Do you accept that the long term goal is a US of E.
That means in time we would have been forced into the US of E, would we have been given a choice, or like the Irish told to keep voting until we give the right answer"
Many see WTD as a positive. But maybe you’ve been effected differently.
Hasn’t there just been a vote on the tampon tax issue ?
I’m not a farmer so can only take your word. But it did seem the farmers were more pro EU than not. Can you elaborate in which the main ones are (and why they’re in place?).
To answer your questions.
A. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here given we are leaving based on our government and our government alone.
B. I think some see it that way. Others don’t. Wasn’t the ireland reforendum passed after renegotiations? Rather than revoting on the exact same treaty. And we had a veto. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Many see WTD as a positive. But maybe you’ve been effected differently.
Hasn’t there just been a vote on the tampon tax issue ?
I’m not a farmer so can only take your word. But it did seem the farmers were more pro EU than not. Can you elaborate in which the main ones are (and why they’re in place?).
To answer your questions.
A. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here given we are leaving based on our government and our government alone.
B. I think some see it that way. Others don’t. Wasn’t the ireland reforendum passed after renegotiations? Rather than revoting on the exact same treaty. And we had a veto. "
If we dont go now we wont get the chance to again,unless of course they wanted us out aswell as us wanting to go.
To answer your questions the WTD has some merit against bad employers but as with lots of laws it affects people in ways that intefere with their iams, for instance in ag we work very long hours
( I did at least 100 a wk for many years when we had cows and no it didnt harm me) in an arable system lads can do long hours during harvest and take time off during winter to make their hours over a year ok,both sides are happy but the rules make it very difficult to comply.
Not sure about the vote on the tampon tax( it was an attempt at humour putting it in but shows how stupid the eu can be)
As for ag it would take me a wk to explain the idiotic rules that acheive nothing but a few things that are stupid are.
Three crop rule, to comply with the rules every farm over 75 acres has to have three crops, for instance if I was doing all the work on a 100 acre farm for a farmer some way away from my base he couldnt grow say wheat one year beans the next year wheat then barley then oilseed etc in following years but would have to grow a combination of three each year, that leads to a lot of waste time and fuel etc in travelling with lots of uneccessary journeys, just when we are all meant to be burning less fuel.
Remapping of all our ground, everytime they do this we will get changes to field sizes usually due to hedges shadowing parts of the field boundaries, these changes are often only a few square metres in a field that could be 25 ha(250000sq mtrs)the field hasnt changed at all its just the satelite cant see it all but we get penalised for it despite the fact that we use the figures they gave us in the first place.
Political inteference in decisions, for example the glyphosate debate, when used by professionals at recommened rates gly is absolutely safe, even the eu accept this every objective study has shown it time after time,but the politicians are trying to ban it to appease green lobbies. The extra fossil fuels that would need to be burnt to acheive the same result as a pass with a small does of gly is crazy, for instance we direct drill our crops which means we drill into the stubble of the previous crop, this means no ploughing and non of the up to four passeses to create a seedbed and kill the volunteers and s that grow between crops, instead we use a third rate dose of gly to clean the stubble before drilling. Not only does this save huge amounts of time and fuel, it is far better for the soil organisms that get damaged by working the soil it also releases huge amounts of organic matter into the air in the form of CO2.
Im not saying this sort of nonsense will stop when we leave but was asked what eu laws have had a negative affect on me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Many see WTD as a positive. But maybe you’ve been effected differently.
Hasn’t there just been a vote on the tampon tax issue ?
I’m not a farmer so can only take your word. But it did seem the farmers were more pro EU than not. Can you elaborate in which the main ones are (and why they’re in place?).
To answer your questions.
A. I’m not sure what you’re getting at here given we are leaving based on our government and our government alone.
B. I think some see it that way. Others don’t. Wasn’t the ireland reforendum passed after renegotiations? Rather than revoting on the exact same treaty. And we had a veto.
If we dont go now we wont get the chance to again,unless of course they wanted us out aswell as us wanting to go.
To answer your questions the WTD has some merit against bad employers but as with lots of laws it affects people in ways that intefere with their iams, for instance in ag we work very long hours
( I did at least 100 a wk for many years when we had cows and no it didnt harm me) in an arable system lads can do long hours during harvest and take time off during winter to make their hours over a year ok,both sides are happy but the rules make it very difficult to comply.
Not sure about the vote on the tampon tax( it was an attempt at humour putting it in but shows how stupid the eu can be)
As for ag it would take me a wk to explain the idiotic rules that acheive nothing but a few things that are stupid are.
Three crop rule, to comply with the rules every farm over 75 acres has to have three crops, for instance if I was doing all the work on a 100 acre farm for a farmer some way away from my base he couldnt grow say wheat one year beans the next year wheat then barley then oilseed etc in following years but would have to grow a combination of three each year, that leads to a lot of waste time and fuel etc in travelling with lots of uneccessary journeys, just when we are all meant to be burning less fuel.
Remapping of all our ground, everytime they do this we will get changes to field sizes usually due to hedges shadowing parts of the field boundaries, these changes are often only a few square metres in a field that could be 25 ha(250000sq mtrs)the field hasnt changed at all its just the satelite cant see it all but we get penalised for it despite the fact that we use the figures they gave us in the first place.
Political inteference in decisions, for example the glyphosate debate, when used by professionals at recommened rates gly is absolutely safe, even the eu accept this every objective study has shown it time after time,but the politicians are trying to ban it to appease green lobbies. The extra fossil fuels that would need to be burnt to acheive the same result as a pass with a small does of gly is crazy, for instance we direct drill our crops which means we drill into the stubble of the previous crop, this means no ploughing and non of the up to four passeses to create a seedbed and kill the volunteers and s that grow between crops, instead we use a third rate dose of gly to clean the stubble before drilling. Not only does this save huge amounts of time and fuel, it is far better for the soil organisms that get damaged by working the soil it also releases huge amounts of organic matter into the air in the form of CO2.
Im not saying this sort of nonsense will stop when we leave but was asked what eu laws have had a negative affect on me"
thx for taking the time to type this. Why do they have the three crop rule ? I imagine it’s for a purpose albeit one that may be more harmful than good ?
In the gly it sounds like it’s a rule which may come in rather than is ... is that fair ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"united states of Europe
In your lifetime? A bit like Turkey joining the EU soon? Can you give an example of 3 EU laws which have adversely affect your life?
Ok here are three.
1 Working time directive interferes with peoples right to work how they want and an employers needs
2 tampon tax
3 As a farmer the list of the rules and regs that damage uk/eu ag is long.
Now answer me this
A has the eu enacted a reg that says NO country can leave unless the majority say they can?
B Do you accept that the long term goal is a US of E.
That means in time we would have been forced into the US of E, would we have been given a choice, or like the Irish told to keep voting until we give the right answer"
Thank you for replying and your comments noted .
As has been discussed the WTD is good for some - mainly the workers but bad for some employers - two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.
Tampon tax - I will respond once I can find the article which I read - vaguely remember the UK government had a big say in it - but will respond once I got the facts!
I am not a farmer so not qualified to comment on your rules etc. However I am a consumer and I do have a say in what I eat. I only buy bio food which in general is local by bio producers. I don't eat any processed foods. Chemicals as has been proven are not 100% safe and regardless of who knows how to handle them mistakes are made. Wildlife especially insects are killed - although some are a bloody nuisance! I remember Brit farming was in the doldrums in the 70's - suicides on a regular basis - and I think the EU has looked after farmers regarding subsidies. I think CAP is out dated needs reform but the UK subsidy plan is going to be difficult to administer but has some good ideas- but as said not a farmer.
I don't think that there will be a US of E because each country wants its own sovereignty - it may well have a European army - Europe's version of NATO but that's not a bad thing. No one nation in Europe is strong enough to stand up to Russia so it makes sense to have collective security. We can forget about the Americans helping - though they'd be happy to sell us weapons like they did in the last war!
Finally the EU aren't stopping us leaving - and A50 was written by a Brit - they just not letting us leave with all the benefits which we currently have. Brexit is not a big thing in Europe - it may be in the UK but the average European just wants us to go now - they don't care! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The independence debate in Scotland is just as divisive as the independence debate in the UK.
And just like the UK debate, it's a choice between the head (economics) and the heart (sovereignty).
I lived in Scotland until 2012 and left just before the referendum, so I did not have a vote.
I took a very neutral view because I knew I would have to live with the outcome.
One thing that Brexit has brought into focus for me.
If you think it is difficult to extract the UK from the EU after 50 years of integration, imagine what it will be like extracting Scotland from the UK after 300+ years of integration.
The irony for me is those who rail against political and monetary union at EU level all seem to be great fans of it at the UK level.
One day yes, the United Kingdom of Great Britain will dissolve. It just seems inevitable. And most probably an even more unpleasant experience than the forces unleashed by Brexit.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
I was told by a farmer yesterday that prior to the referendum in 2916, there was an NFU meeting near Preston and at that meeting there were two buckets. Each farmer was given a red ball and a blue ball and they were asked to put the red ball in the red bucket if they supported Brexit and the blue ball in the blue bucket if they supported remain. He said that the red bucket was overflowing with hardly anything in the blue bucket.
He said that the same experiment was conducted again earlier this year and the result was completely reversed. The reason seemingly is that they now fear that the U.K. is intent on reducing or removing import taxes on globally sourced foods and agricultural products.
He said that he felt “a bit stupid now” as he thinks that Brexit will now negatively and directly impact his farm. He said that at the time he, and many others thought that a reduction of EU red tape would free him up to be more productive and to have more choices but he now sees that as pointless if he is going to be in competition with very cheap imports. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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regarding farming, the government are clearly planning to run down what post-Brexit, will become just another extremely low-quality economically unproductive business sector that is hoarding the vast proportion of the country's land wealth. they want a huge chunk of the sector to fail from the onslaught of foreign agri imports so they can tuck into the wealth locked into the countryside. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have always been a Unionist, but the way that Scottish Nationalists have been acting over the years has forced me to reconsider. I’m now of the opinion that we would be better off without them.
So the Scotts want independence, too bad they voted against it in their own referendum. They don’t want BREXIT, but are now moaning that the fact that there are ten times the amount of people in England, means that they are now being forced to leave the EU against their wishes.
Now old fishy nickers is saying that she wants a “people’s vote” on BREXIT, and later another referendum on Scottish independence. I say let them have another indiref and if they vote to leave then good. All of those Scottish MPs pissing off back to Scotland will be a good thing for UK politics, and we can reinforce Hadrians Wall as a hard border, for if they are accepted back into the EU.
It would, if nothing else, be a hugely entertaining experiment. Because even if an independent Scotland was accepted by the EU, it would take years to actually happen. In the meantime will they be expecting us to help? Nah surely not!! |
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"united states of Europe
In your lifetime? A bit like Turkey joining the EU soon? Can you give an example of 3 EU laws which have adversely affect your life?
Ok here are three.
1 Working time directive interferes with peoples right to work how they want and an employers needs
2 tampon tax
3 As a farmer the list of the rules and regs that damage uk/eu ag is long.
Now answer me this
A has the eu enacted a reg that says NO country can leave unless the majority say they can?
"
No
"
B Do you accept that the long term goal is a US of E.
"
No
"
That means in time we would have been forced into the US of E, would we have been given a choice, or like the Irish told to keep voting until we give the right answer"
There are some federalist in the EU but that is not the policy of the EU. The official policy of the EU, and where the often misquoted phrase "ever closer union" comes from is:-
ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen.
Not really a clarion call for a centralised European Superstate but more a call for decentralised decision making. Clearly National Governments are closer to the citizenry than any arm of the EU, meaning that the "ever closer union" phrase, when taken in its entirety, is actually a call towards more national sovereignty, not less.
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I agree with Shag on this one .
If the Scots want independence then let them have it .
It’ll be much better for us not having them saying no to everything in our parliament anyway .
And if we see less of Sturgeon then that’s good isn’t it’s?
Let’s make sure we don’t give them a get out of jail card free card when they go . Without the money they get from us they will be proper fucked , and the EU certainly don’t want them either . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree with Shag on this one .
If the Scots want independence then let them have it .
It’ll be much better for us not having them saying no to everything in our parliament anyway .
And if we see less of Sturgeon then that’s good isn’t it’s?
Let’s make sure we don’t give them a get out of jail card free card when they go . Without the money they get from us they will be proper fucked , and the EU certainly don’t want them either ."
So who controls the North Sea oil? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The devolution settlement specifically excluded North Sea oil revenues. The money continues to flow to London, not Edinburgh.
That said, UK taxpayers are on the hook for a liability of £40bn or so.
Some tax ruse whereby the operating companies can write off their decommissioning costs against tax.
I don't think the SNP will make the same mistake in the next referendum of miscalculating future revenues from Scotland's area of the UK continental shelf.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The age of oil is over .The SNP would be smart to invest in renewables and leave the huge clean up cost to Westminster .  "
they're already all over that one like a cheap suit bob .... if the countrys split today, the electricity that is exported to england via the grid would stayed in scotland they would be self sufficient in electrical power and have enough spare to run about 60% of their transportation infrastructure .... plus england would be fucked for electric  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe "unions" are no longer viable in the modern age? UK doesn't like the EU and maybe they are right. Maybe the Scottish are fed up of being "2nd" in the union or the Welsh being 3rd and the Northern Irish being 4th - or whatever order they are?
Catalans want separation so why not one of the above? Who knows maybe an independent Yorkshire for example? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Im not saying this sort of nonsense will stop when we leave but was asked what eu laws have had a negative affect on methx for taking the time to type this. Why do they have the three crop rule ? I imagine it’s for a purpose albeit one that may be more harmful than good ?
In the gly it sounds like it’s a rule which may come in rather than is ... is that fair ?"
The three crop is meant to increase bio diversity but it doesnt as you could grow three cereals as winter/spring crops of wheat are counted as different crops which is stupid,the problem is what works in spain/france doesnt work in the UK or say denmark due to different crops/climate and soils but the rules cover all the EU so its a complete mess |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Thank you for replying and your comments noted .
As has been discussed the WTD is good for some - mainly the workers but bad for some employers - two sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.
Tampon tax - I will respond once I can find the article which I read - vaguely remember the UK government had a big say in it - but will respond once I got the facts!
I am not a farmer so not qualified to comment on your rules etc. However I am a consumer and I do have a say in what I eat. I only buy bio food which in general is local by bio producers. I don't eat any processed foods. Chemicals as has been proven are not 100% safe and regardless of who knows how to handle them mistakes are made. Wildlife especially insects are killed - although some are a bloody nuisance! I remember Brit farming was in the doldrums in the 70's - suicides on a regular basis - and I think the EU has looked after farmers regarding subsidies. I think CAP is out dated needs reform but the UK subsidy plan is going to be difficult to administer but has some good ideas- but as said not a farmer.
I don't think that there will be a US of E because each country wants its own sovereignty - it may well have a European army - Europe's version of NATO but that's not a bad thing. No one nation in Europe is strong enough to stand up to Russia so it makes sense to have collective security. We can forget about the Americans helping - though they'd be happy to sell us weapons like they did in the last war!
Finally the EU aren't stopping us leaving - and A50 was written by a Brit - they just not letting us leave with all the benefits which we currently have. Brexit is not a big thing in Europe - it may be in the UK but the average European just wants us to go now - they don't care!"
I agree no chemical is 100% safe, one of the most toxic things we consume is salt yet without it we also die, its the dose that is important as with all chemicals. when you say you eat bio food I assume you mean organic, in theory organic is ok but production is much less and we would really struggle to feed the current population let alone an increasing world one. There is a middle way which produces better yields than organic but using as few chems as possible, we are only just beginning to learn about the interactions in soil and how they affect crops etc, the trouble as always is that zealots on both sides shout the loudest and common sense goes out the window. neo nics are a case in point, they have been banned because in a laboratory they have show some signs of disrupting bees, the trouble is that the doses used are many times the level used in the field and the time they are applied to seeds there are no bees about in those fields, quite how the levels of neo nics are high enough in the spring when osr is in flower to disrupt bees is beyond me when it doesnt stop pollen midge from damaging the crop which it would do if the level was high.Also by not using the seed dressing we have to spray insecticide several times on to the newly emerged osr to stop flea bettle wiping it out so in fact far more chem is used. The trouble is the chem makers produce one set of "facts" and the green lobby a different set, both produced to "prove" their point of view |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
There are some federalist in the EU but that is not the policy of the EU. The official policy of the EU, and where the often misquoted phrase "ever closer union" comes from is:-
ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen.
Not really a clarion call for a centralised European Superstate but more a call for decentralised decision making. Clearly National Governments are closer to the citizenry than any arm of the EU, meaning that the "ever closer union" phrase, when taken in its entirety, is actually a call towards more national sovereignty, not less.
"
You may beleive that but in reality why an eu army if not for a super state, and as for decicions closer to the citizens why are the eu talking about tax harmonisation thats the opposite of decentralisation,monetary union which requires one interest rate is the same. In principle I can see that a single state would be a good idea and if it was say the northern states maybe it could work but now its 27/8 its just far too big and diverse for it to work, for goodness sake the scots want to leave the uk somw welsh/irish do, the catalans and basques want to leave spain, yugoslavia has already spilt. a free trading block is great but political union will end in tears, every big empire/political block has ended badly before and the EU will be no different. Strangely the one big bloch that has finished on the best terms is the British empire, not always immediately but the commonwealth is a pretty happy organisation, perhaps the EU couldlearn something from us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
There are some federalist in the EU but that is not the policy of the EU. The official policy of the EU, and where the often misquoted phrase "ever closer union" comes from is:-
ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as openly as possible and as closely as possible to the citizen.
Not really a clarion call for a centralised European Superstate but more a call for decentralised decision making. Clearly National Governments are closer to the citizenry than any arm of the EU, meaning that the "ever closer union" phrase, when taken in its entirety, is actually a call towards more national sovereignty, not less.
You may beleive that but in reality why an eu army if not for a super state, and as for decicions closer to the citizens why are the eu talking about tax harmonisation thats the opposite of decentralisation,monetary union which requires one interest rate is the same. In principle I can see that a single state would be a good idea and if it was say the northern states maybe it could work but now its 27/8 its just far too big and diverse for it to work, for goodness sake the scots want to leave the uk somw welsh/irish do, the catalans and basques want to leave spain, yugoslavia has already spilt. a free trading block is great but political union will end in tears, every big empire/political block has ended badly before and the EU will be no different. Strangely the one big bloch that has finished on the best terms is the British empire, not always immediately but the commonwealth is a pretty happy organisation, perhaps the EU couldlearn something from us"
So based on your statement "why an EU army if not for a super state" - then what's NATO? What's the U.N.? I supose bang goes the theory - a new super state ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The commonwealth is a great organisation , I love it that some countries have applied to join even when they have no historical connection to the empire "
oh please tell which ones?
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"Oh they are a desperate though it has to be said sizeable rump being played for fools by the SNP leadership.
MsSturgeon knows she will not either be allowed a referendum...That is her preferred option..then it is all Westminsters fault blah blah blah
Or worse they get permission and almost certainly lose and it is all over for all those SNP snouts in the trough "
as usual with referendums you keep on voting till the numpties get the result they think is right for all when obviously its not. They've had one for independence already .they had a result .then along comes stirrer sturgeon .for gods sake can't people respect the results of these referendums then shut up and get on with their lives .Voting these days has become nothing more than a mockery .Scotland won't have a leg to stand on if they ever had to go cap in hand to the EU .Do You really think the EU care that much .the circus won't be in town forever |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You may beleive that but in reality why an eu army if not for a super state, us"
see, now THAT'S what you call project fear .. none of your namby pamby lightweight 'the economy has gone down the shitter' stuff |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I agree with Shag on this one .
If the Scots want independence then let them have it .
It’ll be much better for us not having them saying no to everything in our parliament anyway .
And if we see less of Sturgeon then that’s good isn’t it’s?
Let’s make sure we don’t give them a get out of jail card free card when they go . Without the money they get from us they will be proper fucked , and the EU certainly don’t want them either .
So who controls the North Sea oil?"
It ain’t what it was, North Sea oil was a real game changer back in the 80’s and 90’s, but they have been closing down the oil rigs for some time.
A relative of mine was involved in the design and structure of the jackets (oil rig legs and platforms), and the work dried up long ago.
He don’t care, he retired to Barbados. But I did stay in Aberdeen with him for a while. It was bloody dead... |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
So based on your statement "why an EU army if not for a super state" - then what's NATO? What's the U.N.? I supose bang goes the theory - a new super state ?"
NATO is made up from many different nations who have no other connection to each other than a shared willingness to defend each other, why does europe need an army when we have nato, the UN is not an army its a talking shop.
And what about the other points every move the eu makes is more central control not less |
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I believe oil companies own North Sea oil, of which little is left compared to the 70's and 80's boom years. The tax revenue will inevitably decline as production declines and oil companies also offset decommissioning costs. Oil is no longer the money tree it once was for a potentially independent Scotland |
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"The commonwealth is a great organisation , I love it that some countries have applied to join even when they have no historical connection to the empire oh please tell which ones?"
Mozambique.
The Commonwealth is a good grouping of nation states and a good place for many countries to come together and work collaboratively on common problems. However with average salaries closer to £2,500- as opposed £25,000+ for the EU, it's not, and never was intended to be, a trading block that could replace the loss of trade to Europe. (And we already have trade deals with a lot of Commonwealth nations through the EU now)
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Good luck Scotland, with about 5 million people I hope you will be able to fund your own army navy air force banking system health service welfare system police force border immigration and customs etc.. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Good luck Scotland, with about 5 million people I hope you will be able to fund your own army navy air force banking system health service welfare system police force border immigration and customs etc.."
Look at the populations of other countries before deriding Scotland. Scotland, Ireland and Norway have similar populations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh they are a desperate though it has to be said sizeable rump being played for fools by the SNP leadership.
MsSturgeon knows she will not either be allowed a referendum...That is her preferred option..then it is all Westminsters fault blah blah blah
Or worse they get permission and almost certainly lose and it is all over for all those SNP snouts in the trough as usual with referendums you keep on voting till the numpties get the result they think is right for all when obviously its not. They've had one for independence already .they had a result .then along comes stirrer sturgeon .for gods sake can't people respect the results of these referendums then shut up and get on with their lives .Voting these days has become nothing more than a mockery .Scotland won't have a leg to stand on if they ever had to go cap in hand to the EU .Do You really think the EU care that much .the circus won't be in town forever "
Ah, the power of the one...
Enlighten me- which referenda in the UK have been repeatedly voted on? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
NATO is made up from many different nations who have no other connection to each other than a shared willingness to defend each other, why does europe need an army when we have nato, the UN is not an army its a talking shop.
And what about the other points every move the eu makes is more central control not less"
The problem with NATO, seen from European eyes, is Donald Trump.
Countries are losing confidence in the US coming to their assistance because of things he has said.
A senior German politician even floated the idea of an independent European nuclear deterrent.
Both Trump and Putin appear to want to destabilise Europe and so weaken its economic clout.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Good luck Scotland, with about 5 million people I hope you will be able to fund your own army navy air force banking system health service welfare system police force border immigration and customs etc.."
5 million is a perfectly sustainable number for the population of a country.
Lots of states with smaller countries.
The question for me is not whether Scotland could be an independent nation state, but whether it would be a more or less prosperous place.
I suspect the answer in the short-term would be less prosperous.
A bit like the UK exiting the EU.
Long-term, who knows.
But do not under-estimate the shock to the rest of the UK from its disintegration.
There would be a flight of capital, not just from Scotland.
And the UK's nuclear deterrent would be located in a territory no longer under its control. The costs of replicating Coulport and Faslane in, say, south Wales, are enormous.
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
The problem with NATO, seen from European eyes, is Donald Trump.
Countries are losing confidence in the US coming to their assistance because of things he has said.
A senior German politician even floated the idea of an independent European nuclear deterrent.
Both Trump and Putin appear to want to destabilise Europe and so weaken its economic clout.
"
All trump has said AFAIK is that other members need to pull their weight, cant see a problem with that, and your having a laugh to think germany would have nuclear weapons they have decided to get rid of their nuclear power plants because the greens dont like the risk so no way they would have weapons on their soil |
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"
The problem with NATO, seen from European eyes, is Donald Trump.
Countries are losing confidence in the US coming to their assistance because of things he has said.
A senior German politician even floated the idea of an independent European nuclear deterrent.
Both Trump and Putin appear to want to destabilise Europe and so weaken its economic clout.
All trump has said AFAIK is that other members need to pull their weight, cant see a problem with that, and your having a laugh to think germany would have nuclear weapons they have decided to get rid of their nuclear power plants because the greens dont like the risk so no way they would have weapons on their soil"
It's not what Trump is saying about pulling their wait that is the problem. Obama, Bush, Clinton and Bush all said the same thing. The problem is is that Trump has actually called into question the US's commitment to the ongoing defence of Europe. That was never questioned before. I've never been in favour of a Euro Army but, with Trump in the US, I'm starting to believe that Europe (including the UK) will have to look more to its self for its own defence and can no longer rely mostly on the American alliance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have always been a Unionist, but the way that Scottish Nationalists have been acting over the years has forced me to reconsider. I’m now of the opinion that we would be better off without them.
So the Scotts want independence, too bad they voted against it in their own referendum. They don’t want BREXIT, but are now moaning that the fact that there are ten times the amount of people in England, means that they are now being forced to leave the EU against their wishes.
Now old fishy nickers is saying that she wants a “people’s vote” on BREXIT, and later another referendum on Scottish independence. I say let them have another indiref and if they vote to leave then good. All of those Scottish MPs pissing off back to Scotland will be a good thing for UK politics, and we can reinforce Hadrians Wall as a hard border, for if they are accepted back into the EU.
It would, if nothing else, be a hugely entertaining experiment. Because even if an independent Scotland was accepted by the EU, it would take years to actually happen. In the meantime will they be expecting us to help? Nah surely not!!"
Please note the snp are not Scotland and Scotland is not the snp despite them wishing you to think that.
It is true of the old saying empty vessels make the most noise and the snp make the most noise.
In 2014 the majority of Scottish voters wishes to remain in the UK so please do not think the snp completely represent Scotland. They have the most seats with about 40 % of the vote. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The problem with NATO, seen from European eyes, is Donald Trump.
Countries are losing confidence in the US coming to their assistance because of things he has said.
A senior German politician even floated the idea of an independent European nuclear deterrent.
Both Trump and Putin appear to want to destabilise Europe and so weaken its economic clout.
All trump has said AFAIK is that other members need to pull their weight, cant see a problem with that, and your having a laugh to think germany would have nuclear weapons they have decided to get rid of their nuclear power plants because the greens dont like the risk so no way they would have weapons on their soil"
I don’t think the politician who suggested it was a comic. Google it - reported in media quite recently. Basically a realignment of the French and / or British WMD to safeguard Europe. |
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"
Please note the snp are not Scotland and Scotland is not the snp despite them wishing you to think that.
It is true of the old saying empty vessels make the most noise and the snp make the most noise.
In 2014 the majority of Scottish voters wishes to remain in the UK so please do not think the snp completely represent Scotland. They have the most seats with about 40 % of the vote."
Indeed, and let's not forget that in the greatest demonstration of democracy in Scotlands history, its people overwhelmingly rejected independence. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"How do people feel about an outsider dictating how we spend our taxes ? 2% of GDP is sizeable as a % of tax. "
Its in the nato rules IIRC that members commit to 2%, if countries dont want to then thats fine they can leave and defend themselves |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Please note the snp are not Scotland and Scotland is not the snp despite them wishing you to think that.
It is true of the old saying empty vessels make the most noise and the snp make the most noise.
In 2014 the majority of Scottish voters wishes to remain in the UK so please do not think the snp completely represent Scotland. They have the most seats with about 40 % of the vote.
Indeed, and let's not forget that in the greatest demonstration of democracy in Scotlands history, its people overwhelmingly rejected independence. "
Yes they did in 2014 but they wont next time ,the snp will use the mandate they have as soon as the final brexit deal becomes clearer to everyone in scotland how fcked we are going to be under a tory goverment who care for no one but their millionaire friends |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The problem is that the SNP have so little time. I would be certain that soon after Brexit day .PM May will call a general election, To give her a mandate and to scupper Boris and his cohorts. At this time the SNP will lose even more MPs...approx 15 more losses. There mandate lost and unlikely to return after the total mess they have made of Health, education, transport etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How do people feel about an outsider dictating how we spend our taxes ? 2% of GDP is sizeable as a % of tax.
Its in the nato rules IIRC that members commit to 2%, if countries dont want to then thats fine they can leave and defend themselves"
it was a pledge to get there by 2024. Doesn’t it make us unsoverign tho to be in a group which is essentially setting out part of our budget?
I’m being flippant of course. But suspect many anti EUs are pro Trump |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem is that the SNP have so little time. I would be certain that soon after Brexit day .PM May will call a general election, To give her a mandate and to scupper Boris and his cohorts. At this time the SNP will lose even more MPs...approx 15 more losses. There mandate lost and unlikely to return after the total mess they have made of Health, education, transport etc "
Hope she does hold a GE then we will get rid of all tories and red tories or maybe nicola will call it before then we will wait and see,pls say were your getting your info of 15 mps approx the snp will lose their seats seems wishful thinking from you ,its only a matter of time before scotland becomes independent and you know that |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Scotland independent....my arse ...would not last 5 mins in real world "
Why not?
Ireland has a similar population, as does Norway.
No reason for Scotland to fail other than in the fantasies of Brexiters who think that It is the English alone who not just keep Scotland and Wales alive but the whole of the EU and probably the entire universe as well. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Scotland independent....my arse ...would not last 5 mins in real world "
Us Scottish people, we’re the happiest you’ll ever meet.
No matter what.
We’re the most balanced people in the world.
Yep, really.
We have a chip on both shoulders!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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An earlier message posted mentioned that it was wishful thinking on my part that the SNP would lose 15 seats in any upcoming election...Yes i do wish it were more but just look at how many SNP seats now have wafer thin majorities There time is up...They have failed time after time and what have they got to show for it ?...A bitter divided nation and an economy struggling to stay out of recession, Yes that amateur hour leadership that would sacrifice everything to lead us over that independence cliff....Oh and Red Tories ? what have that lot ever done either?....Well apart from the NHS, the minimum wage, the welfare state. the recognition of trades unions to represent the working classes...oh i will stop there...it would destroy your belief in Salmond and Sturgeon who are no more credible than snake oil salesmen....Oh and Reds are not under the bed they are on a Russian TV channel...SNP ex leader and assorted SNP mps now prostituting themselves on Putins favorite channel  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An earlier message posted mentioned that it was wishful thinking on my part that the SNP would lose 15 seats in any upcoming election...Yes i do wish it were more but just look at how many SNP seats now have wafer thin majorities There time is up...They have failed time after time and what have they got to show for it ?...A bitter divided nation and an economy struggling to stay out of recession, Yes that amateur hour leadership that would sacrifice everything to lead us over that independence cliff....Oh and Red Tories ? what have that lot ever done either?....Well apart from the NHS, the minimum wage, the welfare state. the recognition of trades unions to represent the working classes...oh i will stop there...it would destroy your belief in Salmond and Sturgeon who are no more credible than snake oil salesmen....Oh and Reds are not under the bed they are on a Russian TV channel...SNP ex leader and assorted SNP mps now prostituting themselves on Putins favorite channel "
Your bitterness really shines through you said earlier approx 15 snp mps would lose their seats let us all know what ones as your very adamant you know they will,yes the red tories gave us the nhs many many yrs ago now they are bunch of abstainers who have lost their socialist principles thats why they are an irrelevance in scottish politics they are hated for standing side by side with the tories,you say the snp's time is up but thats just total bull as the majority of scots keep voting for them because they trust them to do whats best for scotland,independence is coming it just a matter of time |
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"An earlier message posted mentioned that it was wishful thinking on my part that the SNP would lose 15 seats in any upcoming election...Yes i do wish it were more but just look at how many SNP seats now have wafer thin majorities There time is up...They have failed time after time and what have they got to show for it ?...A bitter divided nation and an economy struggling to stay out of recession, Yes that amateur hour leadership that would sacrifice everything to lead us over that independence cliff....Oh and Red Tories ? what have that lot ever done either?....Well apart from the NHS, the minimum wage, the welfare state. the recognition of trades unions to represent the working classes...oh i will stop there...it would destroy your belief in Salmond and Sturgeon who are no more credible than snake oil salesmen....Oh and Reds are not under the bed they are on a Russian TV channel...SNP ex leader and assorted SNP mps now prostituting themselves on Putins favorite channel "
Wee Jimmy Krankie promised that education was top of the SNP's agenda time after time.
In her speech at the SNP conference, she mentioned education once.
She mentioned Inderef2 13 times.
Teachers themselves in Scotland say the education system is falling apart.
The SNP are a busted flush. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd be interested if there was a vote by England as to if we should cut Scotland loose what the result would be then "
I would vote in favour, especially as it would take a shedload if reds out of the House of Commons. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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These are unpredictable times. Unusually, who wins at the ballot box and governs is not going to be decided by internal politics but by external ones and its influence.
What IS clear, is that the Union is expendable, unless you support the DUP.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Scotland independent....my arse ...would not last 5 mins in real world
Why not?
Ireland has a similar population, as does Norway.
No reason for Scotland to fail other than in the fantasies of Brexiters who think that It is the English alone who not just keep Scotland and Wales alive but the whole of the EU and probably the entire universe as well. "
Have you seen the cost of living in Norway?  |
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It is intetesting that some Scots want to leave a trade and political bond (the UK) and seek their fortunes with another (the EU).
If the Scots do vote for independence, at least the UK government can rerun the Brexit negotiations removing "EU" from the paperwork and substituting Scotland.
Scottish Border Force. Scottish import duties and forms. Scottish negotiation to join the EU and accept the Euro with European control over their economy. Scottish ports needing to up their game to accept boats directly from the EU.
We won't even talk about how they will finance their economy alone or retain the large businesses that will fuel the economy.
We cannot wait.
Sure....some wag will say that England will suffer from Brexit and Scots independence and flowers will bloom north of the border.
We will see.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I'd be interested if there was a vote by England as to if we should cut Scotland loose what the result would be then
I would vote in favour, especially as it would take a shedload if reds out of the House of Commons."
The Brexit vote was the first step on the inevitable road to the collapse of the United Kingdom and the English finally losing grip of the last vestiges of control of the Kingdom.
It is rather ironic that those now most willing to discard the Scots and Northern Irish as a price willing to pay for Brexit would historically have been English Unionists. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Scotland independent....my arse ...would not last 5 mins in real world
Why not?
Ireland has a similar population, as does Norway.
No reason for Scotland to fail other than in the fantasies of Brexiters who think that It is the English alone who not just keep Scotland and Wales alive but the whole of the EU and probably the entire universe as well.
Have you seen the cost of living in Norway? "
How does it compare to Ireland? The point being that there is a fantasy that many English hold on to and it is the same fantasy that was used to try to convince countries not to leave the empire.
Scotland and its people have a right to decide their own fate and with the population that they have they are perfectly capable of going it alone though I suspect that they will ally themselves economically to the EU and to a smaller band of Celtic associations with Wales and Ireland.
I personally think that Brexit will be a long term dagger to the heart of England and its control over the United Kingdom. It is just a matter of time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Scottish Border Force. Scottish import duties and forms. Scottish negotiation to join the EU and accept the Euro with European control over their economy. Scottish ports needing to up their game to accept boats directly from the EU.
We won't even talk about how they will finance their economy alone or retain the large businesses that will fuel the economy.
"
You have rather lost your point by misunderstanding how the UK and EU work.
Scotland wishes to stay in the EU because, among other things, their vote matters on issues: decisions made are by unanimous agreement. Within the UK, Scotland's voting wishes don't matter and worse, are used against the good of the country.
As for ports....do you not think there are container ports already in Scotland?
A Scotland in the EU and an rUK outwith, is likely to see a constant stream of big businesses over the border, so that they may still be in the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Travelling a lot, as I do, it's interesting to hear how this debate is viewed elsewhere.
The Scandinavian countries are amazingly keen that Scotland join with them, as they see it as its natural cultural affiliation- one country is more than half Scottish in its gene pool. Other areas of southern Europe and far beyond, support the idea of an independence but mainly, I think, to separate what they see as a 'good' country from a 'bad' oppressor and maybe more related to the difference of English and Scottish attitudes to and when abroad. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
An interesting snippet, often overlooked in this debate, is that a third or so of SNP supporters want to be independent of both UK and EU.
The SNP in Scotland now has more members than the Conservative Party in the UK.
I have heard it said that Sturgeon doesn’t want to risk a second referendum until the polls are nudging 60 per cent.
Brexit had an interesting side-effect.
While the headline needle has hardly moved, it masks a demographic swing.
The middle class voter who said No in 2014 is now more likely to say Yes as a means of staying European.
The working class voter who said yes in 2014 is now more likely to say No because they want to stay British.
It appears these swings are cancelling each other out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An interesting snippet, often overlooked in this debate, is that a third or so of SNP supporters want to be independent of both UK and EU.
The SNP in Scotland now has more members than the Conservative Party in the UK.
I have heard it said that Sturgeon doesn’t want to risk a second referendum until the polls are nudging 60 per cent.
Brexit had an interesting side-effect.
While the headline needle has hardly moved, it masks a demographic swing.
The middle class voter who said No in 2014 is now more likely to say Yes as a means of staying European.
The working class voter who said yes in 2014 is now more likely to say No because they want to stay British.
It appears these swings are cancelling each other out."
But do they want to be subservient? One of the main problems was "we want control" hence we were just one of 28 and not the number 1 decision maker. In the UK union England rules so the other 3 just follow. So Scotland have no "real" power - Only what the "English" allow them to have. Maybe NI & Scotland should stay in the EU as per their vote and England & Wales leave as per their vote? But we are also a monetary union which makes it difficult so will it won't happen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe i am being silly here but still believe we have a lot more that binds us than we have that divides us.
From the outside it may look like Scots are straining to leave the UK. The reality is under this SNP govt we have stumbled from one self-inflicted wound to another. We have lower education ratings, teachers voting to strike, piss poor transport, a police force in constant crisis...and a finance minister who is not educated enough to hold a mid level banking position....The facts are Sturgeon is not stupid she knows to call a referendum now is a sure fire loser for her. There big hope is some idiot like Boris ends up PM...then even i may have to look again ....we are not that stupid are we ? |
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"Scottish Border Force. Scottish import duties and forms. Scottish negotiation to join the EU and accept the Euro with European control over their economy. Scottish ports needing to up their game to accept boats directly from the EU.
We won't even talk about how they will finance their economy alone or retain the large businesses that will fuel the economy.
You have rather lost your point by misunderstanding how the UK and EU work.
Scotland wishes to stay in the EU because, among other things, their vote matters on issues: decisions made are by unanimous agreement. Within the UK, Scotland's voting wishes don't matter and worse, are used against the good of the country.
As for ports....do you not think there are container ports already in Scotland?
A Scotland in the EU and an rUK outwith, is likely to see a constant stream of big businesses over the border, so that they may still be in the EU. "
I admire your optimism. |
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"Scottish Border Force. Scottish import duties and forms. Scottish negotiation to join the EU and accept the Euro with European control over their economy. Scottish ports needing to up their game to accept boats directly from the EU.
We won't even talk about how they will finance their economy alone or retain the large businesses that will fuel the economy.
You have rather lost your point by misunderstanding how the UK and EU work.
Scotland wishes to stay in the EU because, among other things, their vote matters on issues: decisions made are by unanimous agreement. Within the UK, Scotland's voting wishes don't matter and worse, are used against the good of the country.
As for ports....do you not think there are container ports already in Scotland?
A Scotland in the EU and an rUK outwith, is likely to see a constant stream of big businesses over the border, so that they may still be in the EU.
I admire your optimism."
1. The roll on roll off traffic from Europe will not discharge in Scotland unless it comes from Dublin to Stranraer. Business uses RoRo to import into the UK from Europe. But why would transporters add a second sea journey into Ireland from Spain adding days to the journey. Why would European businesses want to add additional costs by using containerised shipping? Would Scottish industry use containerused shipping to export to the EU?
2. Businesses looking to be within the heart of Europe will move into mainland Europe and not north.
3. There is a fear that Scotland will be a high taxation country for business. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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1) Stranraer isn't the port you mean.
Why go via Dublin and not straight to Cairn Ryan or the other container ports? Roro used to happen at Rosyth too- I'm not sure now but the infrastructure is still there. Where there's a market there's a seller.
2) Why locate to Europe when you could move productions and potentially workforce, a few miles north? Who knows
3).A higher taxation than, say, Denmark? Very much doubt it. Since it would encourage inward investment rather than deflect it, it would not be in the country's best interest for the government in power to make corporation tax a deciding factor.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
A ro/ro service ran between Rosyth and Belgium for a number of years.
There are planners to create a container hub at Rosyth, aligned to the expansion of Amazon and other distribution centres in west Fife and beyond.
Scapa Flow is being investigated as a deep-water transfer hub for the next generation of super-size container ships.
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"1) Stranraer isn't the port you mean.
Why go via Dublin and not straight to Cairn Ryan or the other container ports? Roro used to happen at Rosyth too- I'm not sure now but the infrastructure is still there. Where there's a market there's a seller.
2) Why locate to Europe when you could move productions and potentially workforce, a few miles north? Who knows
3).A higher taxation than, say, Denmark? Very much doubt it. Since it would encourage inward investment rather than deflect it, it would not be in the country's best interest for the government in power to make corporation tax a deciding factor.
"
But isn't the point about a Scottish Border Force something to do with the fact that a border will exist between Scotland and it's largest trading partner?
Or will the Anglophobes ban all trade? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"1) Stranraer isn't the port you mean.
Why go via Dublin and not straight to Cairn Ryan or the other container ports? Roro used to happen at Rosyth too- I'm not sure now but the infrastructure is still there. Where there's a market there's a seller.
2) Why locate to Europe when you could move productions and potentially workforce, a few miles north? Who knows
3).A higher taxation than, say, Denmark? Very much doubt it. Since it would encourage inward investment rather than deflect it, it would not be in the country's best interest for the government in power to make corporation tax a deciding factor.
But isn't the point about a Scottish Border Force something to do with the fact that a border will exist between Scotland and it's largest trading partner?
Or will the Anglophobes ban all trade?"
We should all calm down about this, as it will never happen. The old sweaties have too much to lose. That is why they didn’t vote for independence last time, and they won’t next time.
I wish they would, because I’m sick of their leftist politicians in our House of Commons. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
But isn't the point about a Scottish Border Force something to do with the fact that a border will exist between Scotland and it's largest trading partner?
Or will the Anglophobes ban all trade?"
I recall Ed Milliband, during the 2014 referendum, warning if he was PM there would rUK soldiers posted to the border with Scotland.
I think events since then in Northern Ireland have shown what a fatuous remark it was. Project Fear at its worst.
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"
But isn't the point about a Scottish Border Force something to do with the fact that a border will exist between Scotland and it's largest trading partner?
Or will the Anglophobes ban all trade?
I recall Ed Milliband, during the 2014 referendum, warning if he was PM there would rUK soldiers posted to the border with Scotland.
I think events since then in Northern Ireland have shown what a fatuous remark it was. Project Fear at its worst.
"
Project Fear will rise again with the Scots but the reality is that if they leave the UK, there will be either a trade agreement with us or they will eventually (after negotiation),join the EU and have to control their trading relationship with those countries outside of the EU according to the rules. This latter position will include their largest trading partner by far, the UK, and as such will require some border control for fiscal purposes.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" The old sweaties
People say us Scots hate the English. As a rule we don't. We just hate people with an attitude like yours."
Dumfries? Almost a jordie’ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"1) Stranraer isn't the port you mean.
Why go via Dublin and not straight to Cairn Ryan or the other container ports? Roro used to happen at Rosyth too- I'm not sure now but the infrastructure is still there. Where there's a market there's a seller.
2) Why locate to Europe when you could move productions and potentially workforce, a few miles north? Who knows
3).A higher taxation than, say, Denmark? Very much doubt it. Since it would encourage inward investment rather than deflect it, it would not be in the country's best interest for the government in power to make corporation tax a deciding factor.
But isn't the point about a Scottish Border Force something to do with the fact that a border will exist between Scotland and it's largest trading partner?
Or will the Anglophobes ban all trade?"
Looks like there will be a border all around England and Wales....If it's more profitable to trade with Scandinavia and Europe, that's where it will go. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do."
and as Spain fights both Catalan and Scottish Independence, condemning both; Scots still rush over to holiday in Spain and pay into there economy, you couldn't make it up, could you. - think about it! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
and as Spain fights both Catalan and Scottish Independence, condemning both; Scots still rush over to holiday in Spain and pay into there economy, you couldn't make it up, could you. - think about it!"
I'm Scottish. I'm going to Spain next week. What's your fucking problem?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
and as Spain fights both Catalan and Scottish Independence, condemning both; Scots still rush over to holiday in Spain and pay into there economy, you couldn't make it up, could you. - think about it!
I'm Scottish. I'm going to Spain next week. What's your fucking problem?
"
you are obviously a NO voter, no problem here, it appears you are the one with guilty conscience |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
and as Spain fights both Catalan and Scottish Independence, condemning both; Scots still rush over to holiday in Spain and pay into there economy, you couldn't make it up, could you. - think about it!
I'm Scottish. I'm going to Spain next week. What's your fucking problem?
you are obviously a NO voter, no problem here, it appears you are the one with guilty conscience "
Clueless.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
and as Spain fights both Catalan and Scottish Independence, condemning both; Scots still rush over to holiday in Spain and pay into there economy, you couldn't make it up, could you. - think about it!
I'm Scottish. I'm going to Spain next week. What's your fucking problem?
you are obviously a NO voter, no problem here, it appears you are the one with guilty conscience
Clueless.
"
if you say so dear; enjoy your holiday, |
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"Organisers say 100,000 attended. Police say the city council estimated 20,000 attended. That sums up the independence movements grasp on the truth  "
Fiddling the numbers seems like a common occurrence with these marches. The People's Vote campaign to Remain in the EU 'claimed' they had 700,000 on their march in London last year. Then Scotland Yard said after a freedom of information request the Greater London Authority gave a figure of 250,000 on the Peoples Vote march. |
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"Oh they are a desperate though it has to be said sizeable rump being played for fools by the SNP leadership.
MsSturgeon knows she will not either be allowed a referendum...That is her preferred option..then it is all Westminsters fault blah blah blah
Or worse they get permission and almost certainly lose and it is all over for all those SNP snouts in the trough "
No idea why you want to insult SNP members of the Scottish Parliament - these are duly elected democratic representatives - perhaps you are suggesting we just get rid of the Scottish Parliament entirely? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"On saturday, a great manifestation of scotlands independence from britain was organised, the organisers describe the march through the capital of edinburgh as "the largest and brave in scotlands history" and reported to have gathered around 100000 people. I like the way they did it, whats your view, will they get independence? I hope they do."
No
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Scotland independent....my arse ...would not last 5 mins in real world
Us Scottish people, we’re the happiest you’ll ever meet.
No matter what.
We’re the most balanced people in the world.
Yep, really.
We have a chip on both shoulders!
"
Often bad tempered and allways getting pissed but very warm hearted |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We should hold both Scottish & NI independence referendums, fuck it let Wales have one too and if they all say remain then England gets one too "
Why dont yous get off your arses and start campaigning for english independence |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"We should hold both Scottish & NI independence referendums, fuck it let Wales have one too and if they all say remain then England gets one too
Why dont yous get off your arses and start campaigning for english independence "
If England and Wales left the United Kingdom, that would solve Brexit at a stroke.
Mind you, they don't have to in order to leave the EU.
Parts of the United Kingdom already sit outside the EU.
Look across the EU28 and you'll find quite a lot of territories in member states that are outside the EU.
Under EU rules, it is quite simple for the United Kingdom to remain in the EU, but remove the territories of England and Wales from its jurisdiction.
It's already done that for the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.
The structure of the UK makes it more difficult to do, however.
Unlike the EU, the UK is a highly centralised union that allows little flexibility of movement between the member states.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Parts of the United Kingdom already sit outside the EU.
Look across the EU28 and you'll find quite a lot of territories in member states that are outside the EU.
"
The remnants of the British Empire that have not been granted independence or have voted to remain British territories do not form part of the United Kingdom and, with the exception of Gibraltar, are not part of the European Union.
Same goes for other EU member States overseas territories. |
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