FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > No deal, second vote, or extend ?
No deal, second vote, or extend ?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for."
The what they voted for is the issue, looked simple and easily sorted but as we have seen and as in some areas was predicted before this is anything but..
How do we resolve the border between Eire/NI being just one.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Extending it may be the least worst option but then again it may not, its all a mess..
"
As soon as the vote went through to leave we know the country would be fighting for the least worse option.
Economically a hard Brexit is by far the worst option, unless you’re ultra rich elite.
Second vote will only give people the chance to vote the country to some even more ridiculous option. Who know what the questions would be on the ballet paper. And as we’ve already seen, you can’t trust people to vote in their own interests.
Extending the deadline, I don’t know what that will achieve, but I suppose it’s not as bad as the other options. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Over the cliff is what the 52% wanted let's give it to them.!
Full speed ahead pedal to the metal.We will clean up the mess once we hit the bottom and move on from this clusterfuck of biblical proportions .  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?"
The problem with the idea of extending is that option is not open to us. At midnight on 28/3/19 we leave the EU (deal or no deal) unless the EU (all 27 states) agree to give us an extension. I have to admit to becoming more and more amused by the ludicrously of our political leaders. As D Day approaches they keep rehashing undeliverable and rejected ideas and somehow think that if they throw a big enough strop then the EU will give in, turn them over, clean their bot bot and give them a nice clean nappy. When from day 1 the EU has said this is your shitty mess and you need clean it up. Followed by, that's not good enough get your shit cleaned away or no deal.
Funniest thing of all is less than 2 months till the end of all negotiations we are still to see all the no deal plans, and the ones that are missing are the ones dealing with things like 'open sky's'. Now why would that be?
  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
The what they voted for is the issue, looked simple and easily sorted but as we have seen and as in some areas was predicted before this is anything but..
How do we resolve the border between Eire/NI being just one.. "
Exactly, but leavers say they knew what they voted for so let them sort it out |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well I saw Centaur's hero, mentor on the news today, the ex governor of the Bank of England (Mervyn King) often cited as an authoritative source of knowledge who has confirmed our negotiation and leadership is a shambles! We should have started preparing in 2016 not 2018 with a feasible plan. Is he right or just project fear? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well I saw Centaur's hero, mentor on the news today, the ex governor of the Bank of England (Mervyn King) often cited as an authoritative source of knowledge who has confirmed our negotiation and leadership is a shambles! We should have started preparing in 2016 not 2018 with a feasible plan. Is he right or just project fear?"
During the referendum the government said it would take 4-6 years to fully negotiate out. And that the two years was an unrealistic target.
The Tories promptly did nothing for two years. Which I guess means they’re either incompetent, which is entirely possible, David Davis isn’t a capable man. Or they want hard Brexit and the financial ruin it will bring to normal people in order to introduce more draconian legislation to make sure the rich and elites can never be challenged for power again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Extension will kick the can down the road until the next general election. Not a solution.
Cliff edge will answer the question, Leaver pre-blaming not withstanding. If it's fine then hooray! If it is not then there will be a generation of recovery or a break-up of the UK or a permanently diminished nation. The significant risk does not warrant the marginal reward.
Another vote, whatever the question, risks a similar unclear result. However, there is a chance it will be a much firmer decision, especially now the complexity and cost is becoming clear. I'd take this option as it forces a decision and, from my analysis, has the option of a better outcome for the country. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well I saw Centaur's hero, mentor on the news today, the ex governor of the Bank of England (Mervyn King) often cited as an authoritative source of knowledge who has confirmed our negotiation and leadership is a shambles! We should have started preparing in 2016 not 2018 with a feasible plan. Is he right or just project fear?
During the referendum the government said it would take 4-6 years to fully negotiate out. And that the two years was an unrealistic target.
The Tories promptly did nothing for two years. Which I guess means they’re either incompetent, which is entirely possible, David Davis isn’t a capable man. Or they want hard Brexit and the financial ruin it will bring to normal people in order to introduce more draconian legislation to make sure the rich and elites can never be challenged for power again. "
A50 (written by a Brit) was written purposely like that - to stop anyone leaving or thinking of leaving! The nation leaving has "control" of the process only until they activate A50. Control from that point is with the EU - as has proved the case. Everyone (other than the leave campaign ) knew 2 years was too short, but in effect the UK government plan only started in July - the Brits can do it in 4-5 months as ratification will take 4 months! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?"
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot."
There is a while thread on a second vote being "undemocratic". It is a self-contradicting statement. The Swiss hold referenda rather more frequently than us and they have no problem with holding them on the same question again in short order or the government not acting on them.
An extension is absolutely possible if both parties agree.
The fact that you voted to Leave based on a certain outcome doesn't mean than everyone else did does it?
Calling people who don't agree with you names is not very grown-up is it?
You are just making statements not based in fact. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot."
Good point. We should have stuck with the result of the 1975 referendum. The 2016 one was undemocratic.
This was a silly sentence designed to show how silly your point is.
I’m not in favour of a second referendum.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I voted Remain
I want a no deal brexit ,
Then i want Boris , Farage , Rhys Mogg , Gove , David Davis
& Fox all chased for Treason.
I will then taunt & laugh at all the leavers who then complain that this should never have been allowed to Happen.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Trouble with that Statement is we cant really do a deal like Norway.
The problem lies in politicians in this country taking a short term fix when the North Sea oil deal was struck.
We took the easy to sell stuff & the Norwegians took the lower profit with huge infastructure investment but with a much much longer term stock of Natural gas.
They are now the 3rd biggest supplier of natural gas & s3ll 25% of said Gas to the EU .
Britain has nothing of similar natural resources to compete.
Norwegians also pay around 50% tax across the board , but get free education , heating electric etc .
Is the uk set up for anything like this ?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for."
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Treason ffs get real mate
I am .
They will have Betrayed there Country
The Treason Act does not even go close to any form of action against anyone that you name."
We shall see from march 2019 oneards, when all the scare tactics that remain warned about start to happen .
There is only 1 option
They know it .
Leave with no deal or stay in the EU .
Leaving is going to seriously damage the uk.
Satying will make the 52% very happy for a while .
Then the Sh*t will start to fly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Treason ffs get real mate
I am .
They will have Betrayed there Country
The Treason Act does not even go close to any form of action against anyone that you name.
We shall see from march 2019 oneards, when all the scare tactics that remain warned about start to happen .
There is only 1 option
They know it .
Leave with no deal or stay in the EU .
Leaving is going to seriously damage the uk.
Satying will make the 52% very happy for a while .
Then the Sh*t will start to fly."
Still wouldn't meet The Treason Act. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Treason ffs get real mate
I am .
They will have Betrayed there Country
"
Venality, stupidity, greed and xenophobia aren't illegal.
Betrayal requires them to believe that the country will be worse off. Many on here insist that prosperity or money aren't what's important. If we are impoverished but they believe that "taking back control" or "sovereignty" or having less foreigners is better then they have not betrayed anyone. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Treason ffs get real mate
I am .
They will have Betrayed there Country
The Treason Act does not even go close to any form of action against anyone that you name.
We shall see from march 2019 oneards, when all the scare tactics that remain warned about start to happen .
There is only 1 option
They know it .
Leave with no deal or stay in the EU .
Leaving is going to seriously damage the uk.
Satying will make the 52% very happy for a while .
Then the Sh*t will start to fly.
Still wouldn't meet The Treason Act."
Nor did Lord Haw Haw's acts.
However he was tried fro treason.
If those who led Brexit & it fails miserably by damaging the state , because of there Lies (£350m to the nhs) , then they will be classed as traitors & under the treason act it is possible.
"Finally, the Treason Act 1351 specified that the listing of offences was meant to be exhaustive. Only Parliament, not the courts, could add to the list. It provided that if "other like cases of treason may happen in time to come, which cannot be thought of nor declared at present", the court may refer the matter to the King and Parliament, which could then determine the matter by passage of an Act".
The last piece is a copy & paste.
It all depends on the IF .
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Treason ffs get real mate
I am .
They will have Betrayed there Country
The Treason Act does not even go close to any form of action against anyone that you name.
We shall see from march 2019 oneards, when all the scare tactics that remain warned about start to happen .
There is only 1 option
They know it .
Leave with no deal or stay in the EU .
Leaving is going to seriously damage the uk.
Satying will make the 52% very happy for a while .
Then the Sh*t will start to fly.
Still wouldn't meet The Treason Act."
Yeah have to agree. Their actions, completely unethical, despicable and self serving yes, treasonous no.
All that a hard Brexit will lead to is those guys slowly blaming someone else or something else as the uk descends into a third world nation. “Well it was a different type of Brexit we wanted, that’s why we’re all fucked”. “It’s the EUs fault for not giving us a good enough deal” blah blah same old same old. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Treason ffs get real mate
I am .
They will have Betrayed there Country
Venality, stupidity, greed and xenophobia aren't illegal.
Betrayal requires them to believe that the country will be worse off. Many on here insist that prosperity or money aren't what's important. If we are impoverished but they believe that "taking back control" or "sovereignty" or having less foreigners is better then they have not betrayed anyone."
Oh so it was only about 2 things then ,Soveriengnty & Bigotry ?
I thought that they said it was for a better future .
Which clearly wont be as the vast majority of the population will be much worse off financially. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"At this stage of proceedings I'd probably agree with Peter hitchins and air to membership of the eec similar to Norway.
It's pretty much ready to go and everybody knows where they stand"
We are not being allowed that option even though it was much discussed as one by the Leave campaign.
Apparently there is a clear mandate for whatever the undefined thing that we are going to get is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot."
No sane human being believes a no deal Brexit is sensible. Those who talk about it all being just fine clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the implications....usually people who only believe experts like JRM, BoJo, Fox and Davis. On the plus side, the screams from the no dealers when it all goes to pot will be a joy to hear. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties."
The question on the ballot paper in the referendum was Remain in the EU or leave the EU, the country chose Leave. Now article 50 has been triggered we leave the EU in March 2019, either with a deal or without a deal. It's now written into UK law when the EU Withdrawal bill passed Royal ascent that we will leave so there is no going back.
I'd like to see Chequers chucked and a Canada style free trade deal agreed between the UK and the EU and this is what David Davis will now be pushing for in Parliament along with support from the ERG. Jacob Rees Mogg met Michel Barnier in Brussels on Monday and they both agreed Chequers won't work. Mogg suggested a Canada style free trade deal and apparently Barnier agreed the UK could have one and it would be preferable to Chequers.
However pound Sterling shot up against the US dollar and the Euro earlier today after reports emerged that Germany had caved on UK demands for a deal and Germany was willing to make concessions. Perhaps the voices of German businesses have finally got through to Angela Merkel? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot.
No sane human being believes a no deal Brexit is sensible. Those who talk about it all being just fine clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the implications....usually people who only believe experts like JRM, BoJo, Fox and Davis. On the plus side, the screams from the no dealers when it all goes to pot will be a joy to hear."
There aren't any sane brexiters |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
The question on the ballot paper in the referendum was Remain in the EU or leave the EU, the country chose Leave. Now article 50 has been triggered we leave the EU in March 2019, either with a deal or without a deal. It's now written into UK law when the EU Withdrawal bill passed Royal ascent that we will leave so there is no going back.
I'd like to see Chequers chucked and a Canada style free trade deal agreed between the UK and the EU and this is what David Davis will now be pushing for in Parliament along with support from the ERG. Jacob Rees Mogg met Michel Barnier in Brussels on Monday and they both agreed Chequers won't work. Mogg suggested a Canada style free trade deal and apparently Barnier agreed the UK could have one and it would be preferable to Chequers.
However pound Sterling shot up against the US dollar and the Euro earlier today after reports emerged that Germany had caved on UK demands for a deal and Germany was willing to make concessions. Perhaps the voices of German businesses have finally got through to Angela Merkel? "
Do you understand any of the headlines that you read?
What you want doesn't really matter. It's not even representative of all of those people who may have voted to Leave.
Your information about the exchange rate spike is already out of date and it changed because it was reported that the Germans said something positive. Our currency controlled by rumours of German comments. That's "taking control"?
Which paper or website is your fantasy about Germany business wanting their government to allow the UK to have its "eat cake" option?
You know that's actually a thing now in Brussels. It's a phrase used to describe a ridiculous demand.
Talk through the logic beyond the "they need us more than we need them" phrase which is hilariously wide of the mark. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?"
1) you mean centy took a quote out of context yet again to try and fit a narrative.... my, thats not like him at all!!!!
2) you are going to find its the unions that are going to end up pushing labour into the "2nd vote" position....
the closer it gets to march 30th with no deal... the more it will look like may is being held hostage by her extreme right wing... and the more public opinion will turn!
the like of johnson and rees mogg are getting very close to overplaying the hand here...
the wisest thing that the EU and Barnier could almost do is sit back and let the ERG group kill the chequers plan....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
1) you mean centy took a quote out of context yet again to try and fit a narrative.... my, thats not like him at all!!!!
2) you are going to find its the unions that are going to end up pushing labour into the "2nd vote" position....
the closer it gets to march 30th with no deal... the more it will look like may is being held hostage by her extreme right wing... and the more public opinion will turn!
the like of johnson and rees mogg are getting very close to overplaying the hand here...
the wisest thing that the EU and Barnier could almost do is sit back and let the ERG group kill the chequers plan....
"
Die deutsche frau Gisela Stuart has said the EU will want to do a deal before March as the next set of EU MEP's will be more eurosceptic! The problems with that is that they all want their cake and eat it too! So they will look after their own interests first I think. Time will tell. She did make an interesting point though: "the Brits never understood the Europeans and they never understood us". |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
1) you mean centy took a quote out of context yet again to try and fit a narrative.... my, thats not like him at all!!!!
2) you are going to find its the unions that are going to end up pushing labour into the "2nd vote" position....
the closer it gets to march 30th with no deal... the more it will look like may is being held hostage by her extreme right wing... and the more public opinion will turn!
the like of johnson and rees mogg are getting very close to overplaying the hand here...
the wisest thing that the EU and Barnier could almost do is sit back and let the ERG group kill the chequers plan....
Die deutsche frau Gisela Stuart has said the EU will want to do a deal before March as the next set of EU MEP's will be more eurosceptic! The problems with that is that they all want their cake and eat it too! So they will look after their own interests first I think. Time will tell. She did make an interesting point though: "the Brits never understood the Europeans and they never understood us"."
Of course they’re going to look after their own interests first! Did anyone ever think otherwise?
If only we were on their side eh! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot.
No sane human being believes a no deal Brexit is sensible. Those who talk about it all being just fine clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the implications....usually people who only believe experts like JRM, BoJo, Fox and Davis. On the plus side, the screams from the no dealers when it all goes to pot will be a joy to hear.
There aren't any sane brexiters "
Says the man who is always ranting and raving about something or other! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
for example.... BoJo's piece in the mail on sunday today.... brilliant example of why the call for a 2nd vote will grow
because it is so extreme in its language, and people will see that johnson isn't talking for the greater country, he is doing it for his own personal political ambition...
thats why i think BoJo and Moggsy will eventually end up being found out, they have much more in it for themselves....
in fact if i was barnier if there was a leadership challenge i would immediately stop any negoiations and let the clock keep ticking... after all i wouldn't know if the next person is going to accept anything that had been agreed
also interesting this morning to hear that the police ARE making contingency plans for a no deal brexit...... which potentially includes calling in military assistance |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Boris does possibly sound a tad desperate as this rolls along, all part of the bannon game plan..
Next it'll be May's chequers plan is like having Jimmy Saville mind your kids or something equally bizarre.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties."
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Extending it may be the least worst option but then again it may not, its all a mess..
"
I believed from day one it would be extended and it will take five to 7 years to leave,I am being proved right again.Looking forward to blowing my own trumpet,people do keep telling me to write a book maybe one day.Just to explain why the experts are arseholes.
Leaving without a deal would be very stupid so I am convinced all will be ok |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets."
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Extending it may be the least worst option but then again it may not, its all a mess..
I believed from day one it would be extended and it will take five to 7 years to leave,I am being proved right again.Looking forward to blowing my own trumpet,people do keep telling me to write a book maybe one day.Just to explain why the experts are arseholes.
Leaving without a deal would be very stupid so I am convinced all will be ok"
We could write one together, said before the vote when I was undecided that if it was to leave I had no faith in our politicians of any parties to sort it in the times scheduled and that it would be a complete fudge designed to appease the leave voters..
It's a total mess and we look well we look a bit clueless.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union. "
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union. "
I'm not getting dragged into stupid arguments again, yes the ballot paper said leave or stay...
Leave means leaving the single market and CU, it was massively reported on the news by our PM that that is what leaving would entail, any attempt at saying different is just bollocks.
Staying in the SM & CU isn't really leaving the EU is it.
The ballot paper is only a small slip, you'd need an encyclopedia of a ballot paper to go into the meat of what leaving would entail but anyone who claims they didn't know what voting leave would entail shouldn't have fucking voted to start with.
More fucking fool them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
"
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So you’re pissed off at the lies told by the leave campaign? I can relate to that from the other side.
Don’t get me wrong, the remain campaigners were just as bad on the bullshit-o-metre. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box"
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!"
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place."
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90. "
No, it is not a red herring at all. It is a very good example of details being glossed over in order to push an agenda. Look at the number of tabloid headline’s screaming about immigrants. Look at the scare tactics used around a Turkey joining and the posters Farage was gurning in front of.
When you couple that all the the actual fact that we didn’t use controls we already had available to us, it is plain what nonsense the whole ‘take back our borders’ line is.
And as pointed out the result will be us ending up likely with a completely open border on the one and only land border we had with EU anyway.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90. "
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!"
This guy has, many times, made it perfectly clear that he doesn’t like foreigners being in the uk for any reason. So from his point of it makes sense. It’s an appalling point of view, but it makes sense, kind of. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
This guy has, many times, made it perfectly clear that he doesn’t like foreigners being in the uk for any reason. So from his point of it makes sense. It’s an appalling point of view, but it makes sense, kind of."
Which is o.k. as long as he stays in the UK! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
This guy has, many times, made it perfectly clear that he doesn’t like foreigners being in the uk for any reason. So from his point of it makes sense. It’s an appalling point of view, but it makes sense, kind of."
When have I ever said that?
Please quote me where I've ever said that once, let alone many times.
I am not against immigration....I am against free movement. There's a difference, maybe you haven't the basic intelligence to see that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!"
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration? "
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot."
Oh ye of blind faith. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!"
As we don’t do exit checks anyway, we’ve got no idea whether someone who came on holiday left or stayed indefinitely. Another control we have but never used. Another example of ‘take back control of our borders’ being bollocks. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away..."
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!"
I've travelled in many countries around the world that require visas...never yet had a problem getting one. What's the issue? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"immigration too!
As we don’t do exit checks anyway, we’ve got no idea whether someone who came on holiday left or stayed indefinitely. Another control we have but never used. Another example of ‘take back control of our borders’ being bollocks. "
Of course we do exit checks, everytime you get on a ferry/plane or chunnel your ID is checked and goes into the big computer that monitors all our movements, now how they use that info on a day to day business is different but it isnt hard to cross check when they have the info |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"immigration too!
As we don’t do exit checks anyway, we’ve got no idea whether someone who came on holiday left or stayed indefinitely. Another control we have but never used. Another example of ‘take back control of our borders’ being bollocks.
Of course we do exit checks, everytime you get on a ferry/plane or chunnel your ID is checked and goes into the big computer that monitors all our movements, now how they use that info on a day to day business is different but it isnt hard to cross check when they have the info"
Ok, sorry, we now do exit checks but it is a shambles. That better?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/28/border-exit-checks-records-of-600000-people-missing-watchdog-reveals
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt"
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"immigration too!
As we don’t do exit checks anyway, we’ve got no idea whether someone who came on holiday left or stayed indefinitely. Another control we have but never used. Another example of ‘take back control of our borders’ being bollocks.
Of course we do exit checks, everytime you get on a ferry/plane or chunnel your ID is checked and goes into the big computer that monitors all our movements, now how they use that info on a day to day business is different but it isnt hard to cross check when they have the info
Ok, sorry, we now do exit checks but it is a shambles. That better?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/28/border-exit-checks-records-of-600000-people-missing-watchdog-reveals
-Matt"
So you now accept we do exit checks, the fact that civil servants are shit is a different matter |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!
I've travelled in many countries around the world that require visas...never yet had a problem getting one. What's the issue?"
I have no issue I too have travelled with no issues but then I follow the rules!
Some have issues no foreigners! Let's just accept all movement is going to get harder not just because of brexit but terrorism! What I want to point out EU freedom of movement is only 90 days not a common known fact! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"immigration too!
As we don’t do exit checks anyway, we’ve got no idea whether someone who came on holiday left or stayed indefinitely. Another control we have but never used. Another example of ‘take back control of our borders’ being bollocks.
Of course we do exit checks, everytime you get on a ferry/plane or chunnel your ID is checked and goes into the big computer that monitors all our movements, now how they use that info on a day to day business is different but it isnt hard to cross check when they have the info"
Actually we did stop exit checks for a number of year's and then reintroduced them. Think they stopped in the 90's - an immigration officer told me as we used to have au-pairs when my daughter was young. They were checked in but I had to make sure they left! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue"
Right, so we need to have some sort of negotiation and arrangement on these issues then? Eg we have to come to some sort of agreement that licenses issued by the CAA whilst a part of EASA are still valid when we are no longer a part of EASA. are The person I am responding to doesn’t want that and wants no deal.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue"
Let alone stopping all flights in and out of Eire, amd completely fucking the Irish economy at a stroke. Now that would be karma. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!
I've travelled in many countries around the world that require visas...never yet had a problem getting one. What's the issue?
I have no issue I too have travelled with no issues but then I follow the rules!
Some have issues no foreigners! Let's just accept all movement is going to get harder not just because of brexit but terrorism! What I want to point out EU freedom of movement is only 90 days not a common known fact!"
So you have no problem with people having to get a tourist visa for a couple of weeks holiday, but you do have a problem with people having to get a visa to come here for longer? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!
I've travelled in many countries around the world that require visas...never yet had a problem getting one. What's the issue?
I have no issue I too have travelled with no issues but then I follow the rules!
Some have issues no foreigners! Let's just accept all movement is going to get harder not just because of brexit but terrorism! What I want to point out EU freedom of movement is only 90 days not a common known fact!
So you have no problem with people having to get a tourist visa for a couple of weeks holiday, but you do have a problem with people having to get a visa to come here for longer?"
No not at all. I have a problem of people not following the rules! Freedom of movement only applies for 90 days after 90 days you need a visa, therefore, it's not free - there are controls! But in the referendum it wasn't mentioned by either campaign - probably because our government never enforced it when they could have! Perhaps you should ask centaur - he's got the problem not me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!
I've travelled in many countries around the world that require visas...never yet had a problem getting one. What's the issue?
I have no issue I too have travelled with no issues but then I follow the rules!
Some have issues no foreigners! Let's just accept all movement is going to get harder not just because of brexit but terrorism! What I want to point out EU freedom of movement is only 90 days not a common known fact!
So you have no problem with people having to get a tourist visa for a couple of weeks holiday, but you do have a problem with people having to get a visa to come here for longer?
No not at all. I have a problem of people not following the rules! Freedom of movement only applies for 90 days after 90 days you need a visa, therefore, it's not free - there are controls! But in the referendum it wasn't mentioned by either campaign - probably because our government never enforced it when they could have! Perhaps you should ask centaur - he's got the problem not me."
So you wouldn't have a problem if everybody had to have a visa from day one, either tourist or work visa? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
The problem I have is seeing the point of these three seemingly conflicting objectives:
1) we want to control our borders and so want to end freedom of movement and have visas/etc. We don’t want just any old riff raff coming in!
2) don’t worry, it won’t make things any harder or make it any more of a significant cost of hassle for you to get one. You’ll be able to get one no problem.
3) we are leaving the EU to get rid of ‘red tape’.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"We wouldn’t have a problem with that "
Shame... I quite like being able to go to Europe for example Barcelona, on a whim... or being able to just book a holiday last minute and just go
I think those are the things you are going to miss without even realising it
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
You just know in 2 years time the goverment will be giving out visas like sweets and the brexiters are going to lose their shit and say we didn't want this
We are never going to please brexiters unless Marty and the Doc can drag the entire country back to Nov 5 1955.
. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We wouldn’t have a problem with that
Shame... I quite like being able to go to Europe for example Barcelona, on a whim... or being able to just book a holiday last minute and just go
I think those are the things you are going to miss without even realising it
"
Yup. I went of to Amsterdam after deciding to the previous day.
The number of people I see on here flying off to Cap d’Agde and Maspalomas etc for weekend trips.
But, hey, as above. It will be a simple system that anyone will be able to get anyway, right?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We wouldn’t have a problem with that
Shame... I quite like being able to go to Europe for example Barcelona, on a whim... or being able to just book a holiday last minute and just go
I think those are the things you are going to miss without even realising it
Yup. I went of to Amsterdam after deciding to the previous day.
The number of people I see on here flying off to Cap d’Agde and Maspalomas etc for weekend trips.
But, hey, as above. It will be a simple system that anyone will be able to get anyway, right?
-Matt"
Anybody with shares in last minute dot com should bail out now. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We wouldn’t have a problem with that
Shame... I quite like being able to go to Europe for example Barcelona, on a whim... or being able to just book a holiday last minute and just go
I think those are the things you are going to miss without even realising it
"
how long are you thinking it’s going to take to get a visa like atleast you are admitting there will be flights now tho |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"We wouldn’t have a problem with that
Shame... I quite like being able to go to Europe for example Barcelona, on a whim... or being able to just book a holiday last minute and just go
I think those are the things you are going to miss without even realising it
how long are you thinking it’s going to take to get a visa like atleast you are admitting there will be flights now tho "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming."
glad that's cleared up but according to some on another thread we won't be able to fly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Andy Burnham (who I’m sure has been held up as a sensible remainer here) is going to say he’d prefer to extend article 50 than cliff edge brexit. On LBC he even said cliff edge was so bad he’d rather have a people’s vote (which he is against as per an old thread here) than cliff edge.
Given the choice, what would be your 1,2,3 of options ?
No deal is best option, people need understand this.
Second vote? No, if the second vote takes place, it would be a attack on democracy as May has stated herself. Just because you didn’t win, doesn’t give you the right to a second vote. You had your chance but remain campaign blew it. Can’t keep voting till you win, it doesn’t work like that.
Extend? Well that’s near impossible. From when A50 is issued, we have two years. Yes we can have things as they are when we leave to continue talks but regardless we will be out of the EU in March.
The Irish border. What’s the issue? Worst happens there will just have to be a hard border with controls as there is with any no eu country that borders the eu. At the very least it will create jobs on both sides.
Yes I voted leave on a no deal Brexit. My opinion is just as important as yours, luckily mine won and yours didn’t. Ha. If remain won, I wouldn’t be crying like most remoaners are, I’d get on with life.
I do believe those handling Brexit are useless as a chocolate teapot."
Very well said dear sir xx |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming."
there be some folk on here googling this now spitting feathers lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming."
What if I’m not approved? And this is going to the EU. What about the other direction?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The problem I have is seeing the point of these three seemingly conflicting objectives:
1) we want to control our borders and so want to end freedom of movement and have visas/etc. We don’t want just any old riff raff coming in!
2) don’t worry, it won’t make things any harder or make it any more of a significant cost of hassle for you to get one. You’ll be able to get one no problem.
3) we are leaving the EU to get rid of ‘red tape’.
-Matt"
I guess there is a trade off between having the ability to control those entering the UK and those from the UK who want to travel to the EU. If you accept the point that the poor have suffered from immigration then they arent going to give a toss if the better off have to jump through a few hoops to go abroad because as they are poor they wont be going.
Some have done very well out of the EU and I can understand they want to remain, some believe they have lost out big time and grabbed the chance of change, they have little to lose, perhaps they deserve a chance of a more prosperous life, you will claim they will lose out from us leaving, THEY dont think that and have that right, being called names by the self appointed "clever" folk says more about the selfishness of those clever folk than it does about the lack of education of the poor |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The problem I have is seeing the point of these three seemingly conflicting objectives:
1) we want to control our borders and so want to end freedom of movement and have visas/etc. We don’t want just any old riff raff coming in!
2) don’t worry, it won’t make things any harder or make it any more of a significant cost of hassle for you to get one. You’ll be able to get one no problem.
3) we are leaving the EU to get rid of ‘red tape’.
-Matt
I guess there is a trade off between having the ability to control those entering the UK and those from the UK who want to travel to the EU. If you accept the point that the poor have suffered from immigration then they arent going to give a toss if the better off have to jump through a few hoops to go abroad because as they are poor they wont be going.
Some have done very well out of the EU and I can understand they want to remain, some believe they have lost out big time and grabbed the chance of change, they have little to lose, perhaps they deserve a chance of a more prosperous life, you will claim they will lose out from us leaving, THEY dont think that and have that right, being called names by the self appointed "clever" folk says more about the selfishness of those clever folk than it does about the lack of education of the poor"
So you are saving that travel should only be for the well-off then? Bit elitist? I thought the point of Brexit was to stick it to ‘those elites’? So far all signs point towards those that are most disadvantaged in life so far are going to fare worst, and those ‘elites’ will be just fine (as they move their investments all offshore in support of Brexit)
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We need to leave on the most cliff edge terms possible, leave the Single market & Customs union, that's what was voted for.
Otherwise if it's not the clean break that was voted for then no one will get the result that they voted for.
Where is your evidence to support this?
The majority voted to leave the EU.
That was it.
Mrs May put her interpretation of that to the public and asked for a mandate. She did not get one.
I doot understand how you can say 52 per cent voted to sever all ties.
I honestly don't know how you can ask this when the campaign was running it was made very clear by Cameron , Osbourne etc that a leave vote meant leaving the single market & Customs Union.
My proof ? All over the internet on all major news outlets.
That was the least of the lies during the campaign, on either side. Oh and Cameron campaigned to remain.
The important thing was the question on the ballot paper. It didn’t mention anything about the single market or the customs union.
It had two questions:
REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EU
LEAVE THE EU
Fact check it! The rhetoric was all added during the campaign.
Yep, which happened to be BEFORE they did their little X in a box
Quite correct but did they know or understand the rhetoric?
Example:
Immigration
There was a big thing about FREEDOM of movement. Did everybody know that it only last 90 days?
After 90 days there were checks and balances in place to control it - since 2004!!!!
Immigration from the rest of the world has always been higher than the EU - the UK government had control of that - Well they were supposed to have had control.
Those who fly into the UK do they or do they not go through passport control? Anyone using Calais will know that British customs is actually in Calais port your checked out before you even got on the ferry!
The only border in the UK where there are no checks is NI and the Rep of Ireland. So control of the borders - always had it - we just didn't do the job!
The question of freedom of movement is not about how long it lasts for...it's that it's there in the first place.
The 90 day free movement line is a bit of a red herring, leave voters don't won't it being applied for 1 day never mind 90.
So what about holidays then? Just shows how stupid your theory is!
Do you even understand the difference between a holiday and immigration?
Yes I do! But if your not going to tolerate any freedom of movement, then visas are required for all cross border journeys. I know for a fact that holiday visits often result in "illegal" immigration too!
I've travelled in many countries around the world that require visas...never yet had a problem getting one. What's the issue?
I have no issue I too have travelled with no issues but then I follow the rules!
Some have issues no foreigners! Let's just accept all movement is going to get harder not just because of brexit but terrorism! What I want to point out EU freedom of movement is only 90 days not a common known fact!
So you have no problem with people having to get a tourist visa for a couple of weeks holiday, but you do have a problem with people having to get a visa to come here for longer?
No not at all. I have a problem of people not following the rules! Freedom of movement only applies for 90 days after 90 days you need a visa, therefore, it's not free - there are controls! But in the referendum it wasn't mentioned by either campaign - probably because our government never enforced it when they could have! Perhaps you should ask centaur - he's got the problem not me.
So you wouldn't have a problem if everybody had to have a visa from day one, either tourist or work visa?"
I would follow the rules whatever they are! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The problem I have is seeing the point of these three seemingly conflicting objectives:
1) we want to control our borders and so want to end freedom of movement and have visas/etc. We don’t want just any old riff raff coming in!
2) don’t worry, it won’t make things any harder or make it any more of a significant cost of hassle for you to get one. You’ll be able to get one no problem.
3) we are leaving the EU to get rid of ‘red tape’.
-Matt
I guess there is a trade off between having the ability to control those entering the UK and those from the UK who want to travel to the EU. If you accept the point that the poor have suffered from immigration then they arent going to give a toss if the better off have to jump through a few hoops to go abroad because as they are poor they wont be going.
Some have done very well out of the EU and I can understand they want to remain, some believe they have lost out big time and grabbed the chance of change, they have little to lose, perhaps they deserve a chance of a more prosperous life, you will claim they will lose out from us leaving, THEY dont think that and have that right, being called names by the self appointed "clever" folk says more about the selfishness of those clever folk than it does about the lack of education of the poor
So you are saving that travel should only be for the well-off then? Bit elitist? I thought the point of Brexit was to stick it to ‘those elites’? So far all signs point towards those that are most disadvantaged in life so far are going to fare worst, and those ‘elites’ will be just fine (as they move their investments all offshore in support of Brexit)
-Matt"
Where did I say travel should be only for the well off? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"The problem I have is seeing the point of these three seemingly conflicting objectives:
1) we want to control our borders and so want to end freedom of movement and have visas/etc. We don’t want just any old riff raff coming in!
2) don’t worry, it won’t make things any harder or make it any more of a significant cost of hassle for you to get one. You’ll be able to get one no problem.
3) we are leaving the EU to get rid of ‘red tape’.
-Matt
I guess there is a trade off between having the ability to control those entering the UK and those from the UK who want to travel to the EU. If you accept the point that the poor have suffered from immigration then they arent going to give a toss if the better off have to jump through a few hoops to go abroad because as they are poor they wont be going.
Some have done very well out of the EU and I can understand they want to remain, some believe they have lost out big time and grabbed the chance of change, they have little to lose, perhaps they deserve a chance of a more prosperous life, you will claim they will lose out from us leaving, THEY dont think that and have that right, being called names by the self appointed "clever" folk says more about the selfishness of those clever folk than it does about the lack of education of the poor
So you are saving that travel should only be for the well-off then? Bit elitist? I thought the point of Brexit was to stick it to ‘those elites’? So far all signs point towards those that are most disadvantaged in life so far are going to fare worst, and those ‘elites’ will be just fine (as they move their investments all offshore in support of Brexit)
-Matt
Where did I say travel should be only for the well off?"
Well, it was a question trying to confirm what you meant by “ that the poor have suffered from immigration then they arent going to give a toss if the better off have to jump through a few hoops to go abroad because as they are poor they wont be going.”.
If you think ‘the poor’ won’t be travelling then who do you think will be?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue
Right, so we need to have some sort of negotiation and arrangement on these issues then? Eg we have to come to some sort of agreement that licenses issued by the CAA whilst a part of EASA are still valid when we are no longer a part of EASA. are The person I am responding to doesn’t want that and wants no deal.
-Matt "
matt..... save the actual explanation and just point them in the direction of lisbon treaty, article 50, paragraph 3....
"3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."
this means that as of march 30th 2019... if no agreement is reach the UK will not be a part of the EASA... and also not be a part of the EU-US openskies agreement...
its not a case of the EU stopping UK registered planes of flying! its a case of UK registered planes not legally being able to fly under international law for insurable reasons as no one in the world will on march 30th recognise uk maintainance records for example....
and thats without talking about this airspace issue... (eire flights wouldnt actually affected that much was they just fly south and then south east till they get to french airspace) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
-Matt
Where did I say travel should be only for the well off?
Well, it was a question trying to confirm what you meant by “ that the poor have suffered from immigration then they arent going to give a toss if the better off have to jump through a few hoops to go abroad because as they are poor they wont be going.”.
If you think ‘the poor’ won’t be travelling then who do you think will be?
-Matt"
Anyone that can afford to go and wants to go, anyone that cant afford to wont, and they wont give a toss if those that can have to pay a few quid for a visa that lasts three years, |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue
Right, so we need to have some sort of negotiation and arrangement on these issues then? Eg we have to come to some sort of agreement that licenses issued by the CAA whilst a part of EASA are still valid when we are no longer a part of EASA. are The person I am responding to doesn’t want that and wants no deal.
-Matt
matt..... save the actual explanation and just point them in the direction of lisbon treaty, article 50, paragraph 3....
"3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."
this means that as of march 30th 2019... if no agreement is reach the UK will not be a part of the EASA... and also not be a part of the EU-US openskies agreement...
its not a case of the EU stopping UK registered planes of flying! its a case of UK registered planes not legally being able to fly under international law for insurable reasons as no one in the world will on march 30th recognise uk maintainance records for example....
and thats without talking about this airspace issue... (eire flights wouldnt actually affected that much was they just fly south and then south east till they get to french airspace)"
so lets get this right you are saying no UK registered planes will be able to fly after March 29th? You doom and gloom merchants make me laugh.Do you honestly believe that is good for anyone and it won't be sorted even if we do crash out the Europeans would lose out big time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue
Right, so we need to have some sort of negotiation and arrangement on these issues then? Eg we have to come to some sort of agreement that licenses issued by the CAA whilst a part of EASA are still valid when we are no longer a part of EASA. are The person I am responding to doesn’t want that and wants no deal.
-Matt
matt..... save the actual explanation and just point them in the direction of lisbon treaty, article 50, paragraph 3....
"3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."
this means that as of march 30th 2019... if no agreement is reach the UK will not be a part of the EASA... and also not be a part of the EU-US openskies agreement...
its not a case of the EU stopping UK registered planes of flying! its a case of UK registered planes not legally being able to fly under international law for insurable reasons as no one in the world will on march 30th recognise uk maintainance records for example....
and thats without talking about this airspace issue... (eire flights wouldnt actually affected that much was they just fly south and then south east till they get to french airspace)so lets get this right you are saying no UK registered planes will be able to fly after March 29th? You doom and gloom merchants make me laugh.Do you honestly believe that is good for anyone and it won't be sorted even if we do crash out the Europeans would lose out big time. "
Why are you trying so hard to not get this?
Both Fabio and I have now tried to explain it to you.
Unless there is some agreement reached in which the safety accreditations of the UK aircraft are legally recognised then, no, those planes will not be flying.
No, I don't believe it is good for anyone. That is the point. It is not good for anyone, it is shit. That is why a no-deal Brexit is shit. Just one reason. There are plenty more that mirror that in most other industries.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"We will never get a good deal from the EU, so Ms May should stick to her original narrative and we should leave with no deal.
As things stand we have been in limbo for too long, and it is not doing us any good.
Time to walk away...
Cool. And do what about the NI border? Just leave it open? Do what about our aviation safety (as just one example)?
-Matt
The same as now the, CAA or are you saying that on day one the eu are suddenly going to say they dont recognize its authority ? They will look pretty stupid if they do, a huge number of flights from eu countries cross our airspace can you imagine the cost and annoyance to eu fliers if they have to fly thousands of miles possibly to avoid our air space, the boss of BA'parent companies was on record as saying it wasnt going to be an issue
Right, so we need to have some sort of negotiation and arrangement on these issues then? Eg we have to come to some sort of agreement that licenses issued by the CAA whilst a part of EASA are still valid when we are no longer a part of EASA. are The person I am responding to doesn’t want that and wants no deal.
-Matt
matt..... save the actual explanation and just point them in the direction of lisbon treaty, article 50, paragraph 3....
"3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."
this means that as of march 30th 2019... if no agreement is reach the UK will not be a part of the EASA... and also not be a part of the EU-US openskies agreement...
its not a case of the EU stopping UK registered planes of flying! its a case of UK registered planes not legally being able to fly under international law for insurable reasons as no one in the world will on march 30th recognise uk maintainance records for example....
and thats without talking about this airspace issue... (eire flights wouldnt actually affected that much was they just fly south and then south east till they get to french airspace)so lets get this right you are saying no UK registered planes will be able to fly after March 29th? You doom and gloom merchants make me laugh.Do you honestly believe that is good for anyone and it won't be sorted even if we do crash out the Europeans would lose out big time.
Why are you trying so hard to not get this?
Both Fabio and I have now tried to explain it to you.
Unless there is some agreement reached in which the safety accreditations of the UK aircraft are legally recognised then, no, those planes will not be flying.
No, I don't believe it is good for anyone. That is the point. It is not good for anyone, it is shit. That is why a no-deal Brexit is shit. Just one reason. There are plenty more that mirror that in most other industries.
-Matt"
I think the question is a) who will issue the certificate of airworthiness and b) how will they have shown their test levels meet the minimum as set by convention. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
Well I think you have answered it of course there Will be some recognition before the 29th even if we do crash out. Have a bit of faith in common sense and don't stress so much its bad for your health. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Well I think you have answered it of course there Will be some recognition before the 29th even if we do crash out. Have a bit of faith in common sense and don't stress so much its bad for your health. "
I think you are overly optimistic. There really isn't that much time left, and these agreements are not necessarily that straightforward. Especially when you look at how they then interact with things like insurance and the likes. And remember, any time *anything* is re-negotiated, it always gives the opportunity for one party to say 'wait a minute... I want something else as well'. Or 'If you are changing that, then I want to change this'.
And as I said, that is just *one* specific example and industry. Granted, it is a pretty big one, and with airlines trying to take bookings now for flights that might not legally be allowed to fly in 6 month's time, it is an industry that will feel it and have a lot of knock-on effects.
-Matt
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming.
What if I’m not approved? And this is going to the EU. What about the other direction?
-Matt"
What if you're not approved? Have you really just asked that question?
And going the other way vusa requirements would be similar, although no final decision has yet been made....don't you know that either? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Well, I've just book a holiday for April 2019 & the website didn't tell me to fuck off
Wonder if I'll need a Visa... I have MasterCard / Visa and Debit... should be ok |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming.
What if I’m not approved? And this is going to the EU. What about the other direction?
-Matt
What if you're not approved? Have you really just asked that question?
And going the other way vusa requirements would be similar, although no final decision has yet been made....don't you know that either?"
Yes, I have just asked that question. Why do you seem to find that o be such a strange question? Do you care to try and answer it?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"From the ETIAS website;
The ETIAS visa will be a multiple-entry visa allowing holders to travel to and around Europe as many times as they like within a 3-year period or until the holder’s passport expires.
The process will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. The ETIAS online application form is straightforward and the majority of applicants will receive a quick response.
Filling out the ETIAS form online will include questions about the applicant’s health, criminal past, personal details and travel information. The person wishing to travel to Europe will also have to pay an ETIAS fee.
The ETIAS will not burden your finances a lot. It is planned to have the ETIAS cost only €7 for each application. This is only valid for adults over 18 years old, as those under 18 will not have to pay any fees. You can pay the fee by debit or credit card. Immediately after you complete the payment, the ETIAS authorization will start processing.
So, ten minutes to apply, instant approval, and €7 for 3 years. If you like the idea of just 'jetting off' for a few weekends a year, and holiday once per year in the EU as well, then the cost works out at about 50p per visit.
We've been to EU countries about 25 times in the last 3 years, so the cost would work out at about 25p per visit.
Hardly cost inhibitive, and not time-consuming.
What if I’m not approved? And this is going to the EU. What about the other direction?
-Matt
What if you're not approved? Have you really just asked that question?
And going the other way vusa requirements would be similar, although no final decision has yet been made....don't you know that either?
Yes, I have just asked that question. Why do you seem to find that o be such a strange question? Do you care to try and answer it?
-Matt"
For any questions you have, you can find the answers by googling ETIAS visa, and look on the schengen visa info website. I haven't put the link as I'm not sure forum rules would allow me to. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
