So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Yes, I believe access to the EU system is members only. It is written in the rules that UK signed up to.
The UK, after March 29, becomes no different from, say, China. Third countries do not get access to secure communication networks. The reason they are secure is to protect them from third countries.
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent."
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system. 
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system. "
The Americans will give us the money. For free. No conditions.
They are our real friends. They speak English nd everything  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system. "
By scrapping the NHS like hannan and mogg would like to |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
By scrapping the NHS like hannan and mogg would like to"
No value in scrap.
Selling the NHS. |
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Will any EU members be wanting our military help in anything that gets detected via this system? Or do we not have to bother with that? I can understand keeping us out of other things, but defence? Really? Is that not cutting your own nose off to spite your face? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It was the UK who insisted the system should be exclusive to EU member states. For security reasons.
When you voted to leave, this was what you voted to leave. Or did you not know that?
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Oh well, the next time France is invaded and surrendered, we need not help them or assist in their liberation.
Good."
You voted to leave.
Now you complain they won't let you stay.
Confused or what?
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system. "
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
"
Well I presume they would be around the £9bn the EU system will cost. Do you have any reason to suspect a system will be significantly less?
We have already worked out the divorce bill and we owe the EU £40bn+ lump sum, plus we will be paying into the pension pot until the 2060s and May has said we will pay into the science budget indefinitely. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Will any EU members be wanting our military help in anything that gets detected via this system? Or do we not have to bother with that? I can understand keeping us out of other things, but defence? Really? Is that not cutting your own nose off to spite your face?"
GPS systems don't detect anything. They are just highly accurate clocks. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
"
The companies that carried out the work have been paid.
We have full access to the system for civilian use.
We, the UK, demanded that the encrypted signal should not be available to non EU members. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
The companies that carried out the work have been paid.
We have full access to the system for civilian use.
We, the UK, demanded that the encrypted signal should not be available to non EU members."
Estimated costs at £3 billion. BAE and the UK Government think they have a good case to claw back £1 billion from the EU. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
"
it was the uk that specifically asked for the "not to be used by a 3rd country" clause... it was put in at their request
can't really cry foul now...... out means out remember! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
The companies that carried out the work have been paid.
We have full access to the system for civilian use.
We, the UK, demanded that the encrypted signal should not be available to non EU members.
Estimated costs at £3 billion. BAE and the UK Government think they have a good case to claw back £1 billion from the EU."
So are BAE going to give the government the money back that they have been paid? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
And the estimates for our own system are? Considering BAE have already done much of the expensive development work.
And the money that we will be claiming back from the EU for work already completed?
The companies that carried out the work have been paid.
We have full access to the system for civilian use.
We, the UK, demanded that the encrypted signal should not be available to non EU members.
Estimated costs at £3 billion. BAE and the UK Government think they have a good case to claw back £1 billion from the EU."
Estimated cost of Galileo development and delivery £10bn.
UK contribution and value of UK contracts, not found. Interested if you have.
How much we might "think" that we can claw back depends on what we agreed to, how much we contributed financially and how much we have and will benefit financially.
It also depends if this is part of the £40bn break clause that we have already agreed with the EU.
You still haven't addressed the substantive point. We wanted the third party exclusion clause, agreed to it and have chosen to leave the EU.
What should we expect to happen? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Oh well, the next time France is invaded and surrendered, we need not help them or assist in their liberation.
Good."
Twelve nations combined to liberate France.
Of the 156,000 troops that landed in Normandy, 61,000 were British.
It is enduring "fake news" that the English liberated the French. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh well, the next time France is invaded and surrendered, we need not help them or assist in their liberation.
Good.
Twelve nations combined to liberate France.
Of the 156,000 troops that landed in Normandy, 61,000 were British.
It is enduring "fake news" that the English liberated the French."
We were there from the beginning, Dunkirk for example. Sure the Normandy invasion was multinational. But Britain’s part in the liberation of France on two occasions should not be played down by anyone. Disgusting! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Unfortunately, the idea that troops came from all corners of the world to liberate France does not sit will with the narrative that it was the plucky old Brits who fought off the hun and gave the French their freedom.
You've been watching too many black and white war films made in Britain where the only country given the credit is, um, er, Britain.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Ha, let's not allow the facts to get in the way of the jingoistic narrative you've been spoon-fed over the years.
What facts? Propaganda bullshit!"
how about this "fact"...
it was the uk that specifically asked for the "not to be used by a 3rd country" clause... it was put in at their request
out means out remember! you wanted to leave... you still want to leave!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ha, let's not allow the facts to get in the way of the jingoistic narrative you've been spoon-fed over the years.
What facts? Propaganda bullshit!
how about this "fact"...
it was the uk that specifically asked for the "not to be used by a 3rd country" clause... it was put in at their request
out means out remember! you wanted to leave... you still want to leave!!!"
We will develope our own GPS system, possibly with the help of the US, or perhaps not.
It doesn’t matter, as adequate satellites and systems are already in place. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ha, let's not allow the facts to get in the way of the jingoistic narrative you've been spoon-fed over the years.
What facts? Propaganda bullshit!
how about this "fact"...
it was the uk that specifically asked for the "not to be used by a 3rd country" clause... it was put in at their request
out means out remember! you wanted to leave... you still want to leave!!!
We will develope our own GPS system, possibly with the help of the US, or perhaps not.
It doesn’t matter, as adequate satellites and systems are already in place."
Why would the US want to build a system with us when they already have one?
If you believe we don't need one, why should we build one? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The reason the EU - and now the UK - want to build its own secure comms network for government use is because the current system relies on the USA.
Trumpland has shown itself to be an unreliable ally, hence the need to derisk the comms function.
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It's a good job that there's so much time to negotiate and have all member states gain agreement in their own country, not to mention all of the legislation that the UK must pass, before that far distant deadline arrives 
I see on other threads that the UK is going to be financially flush, so buying several of these GPS systems is likely very easily affordable, making the UK the envy of the world.
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"The reason the EU - and now the UK - want to build its own secure comms network for government use is because the current system relies on the USA.
Trumpland has shown itself to be an unreliable ally, hence the need to derisk the comms function.
"
The EU Galileo system was started long before Trump was elected. It started back in 2003. Presumably then the EU thought USA wasn't a reliable ally under George Bush jnr or Barack Obama either? |
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"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system. "
As already stated by Mercury estimated cost for a UK system is £3 billion. Claiming a possible £1 billion back from the EU for Galileo leaves £2 billion. The UK companies and contractors who worked on Galileo already have valuable know how and expertise on the systems involved.
The UK has already announced plans for UK space ports to be built and made ready in Cornwall and Scotland earlier this year not just for Galileo but for other projects the UK space agency has in the pipeline. Extra long runway in Cornwall already exists as it was there for Space Shuttle emergency landings. It's not just government funded projects anyway space travel will become commercialised, Richard Branson's Virgin group has already made plans in the area of commercial space travel. If we leave the EU without a deal the UK keeps the £40 billion divorce bill, Dominic Raab brexit secretary made it clear on Thursday when the no deal technical notes were released so some of the £40 billion could possibly go towards a new UK GPS system.
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
As already stated by Mercury estimated cost for a UK system is £3 billion. Claiming a possible £1 billion back from the EU for Galileo leaves £2 billion. The UK companies and contractors who worked on Galileo already have valuable know how and expertise on the systems involved.
The UK has already announced plans for UK space ports to be built and made ready in Cornwall and Scotland earlier this year not just for Galileo but for other projects the UK space agency has in the pipeline. Extra long runway in Cornwall already exists as it was there for Space Shuttle emergency landings. It's not just government funded projects anyway space travel will become commercialised, Richard Branson's Virgin group has already made plans in the area of commercial space travel. If we leave the EU without a deal the UK keeps the £40 billion divorce bill, Dominic Raab brexit secretary made it clear on Thursday when the no deal technical notes were released so some of the £40 billion could possibly go towards a new UK GPS system.
"
Q1. The Russian system cost £11.6bn, the EU system will cost £9bn, please can you provide the source as to why you think the UK system will only cost £3bn?
Q2. We can't claim £1bn back, we have already agreed the divorce settlement. Plus, that money has already been given to British companies, are they going to give the money back?
Q3. That valuable knowledge and research you mention will undoubtedly be protected by intellectual property rights. Do you have any proof that the EU are planning on releasing the intellectual property that they have paid for?
This thread has nothing to do with commercial space travel, so please stop trying to divert the thread.
Q4. The government's plan and position is that we will strike a deal with the EU, and we will pay our divorce bill, so where will the money come from? |
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"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
As already stated by Mercury estimated cost for a UK system is £3 billion. Claiming a possible £1 billion back from the EU for Galileo leaves £2 billion. The UK companies and contractors who worked on Galileo already have valuable know how and expertise on the systems involved.
The UK has already announced plans for UK space ports to be built and made ready in Cornwall and Scotland earlier this year not just for Galileo but for other projects the UK space agency has in the pipeline. Extra long runway in Cornwall already exists as it was there for Space Shuttle emergency landings. It's not just government funded projects anyway space travel will become commercialised, Richard Branson's Virgin group has already made plans in the area of commercial space travel. If we leave the EU without a deal the UK keeps the £40 billion divorce bill, Dominic Raab brexit secretary made it clear on Thursday when the no deal technical notes were released so some of the £40 billion could possibly go towards a new UK GPS system.
Q1. The Russian system cost £11.6bn, the EU system will cost £9bn, please can you provide the source as to why you think the UK system will only cost £3bn?
Q2. We can't claim £1bn back, we have already agreed the divorce settlement. Plus, that money has already been given to British companies, are they going to give the money back?
Q3. That valuable knowledge and research you mention will undoubtedly be protected by intellectual property rights. Do you have any proof that the EU are planning on releasing the intellectual property that they have paid for?
This thread has nothing to do with commercial space travel, so please stop trying to divert the thread.
Q4. The government's plan and position is that we will strike a deal with the EU, and we will pay our divorce bill, so where will the money come from? "
With regard to Q3. There is ever chance that the intelectual property rights will actually be owned by private companies. Private companies that anyone can work with. I doubt they would allow themselves to be hamstrung by governments who haven't actually done the work. Its one of the big downsides to private companies doing things that the governments themselves should be doing.
You know the entire thing was designed by a bald bloke in a hollowed out volcano don't you? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
As already stated by Mercury estimated cost for a UK system is £3 billion. Claiming a possible £1 billion back from the EU for Galileo leaves £2 billion. The UK companies and contractors who worked on Galileo already have valuable know how and expertise on the systems involved.
The UK has already announced plans for UK space ports to be built and made ready in Cornwall and Scotland earlier this year not just for Galileo but for other projects the UK space agency has in the pipeline. Extra long runway in Cornwall already exists as it was there for Space Shuttle emergency landings. It's not just government funded projects anyway space travel will become commercialised, Richard Branson's Virgin group has already made plans in the area of commercial space travel. If we leave the EU without a deal the UK keeps the £40 billion divorce bill, Dominic Raab brexit secretary made it clear on Thursday when the no deal technical notes were released so some of the £40 billion could possibly go towards a new UK GPS system.
"
A replacement for Galileo is estimated at Euros 9bn to which the UK has contributed Euros 1.4bn. Much, if not all of that contribution, possibly more, has gone to UK firms. Original budget was £3bn.
The "valuable knowledge" is not just held in the heads of British people in British companies. We are riddled with Jonny foreigners who will take their knowledge with them. They already are.
We do not have £40bn to spend on anything if we don't pay it to the EU. It won't be "available" to spend in anything. It's all debt.
Building spaceports don't make for a commercially viable industry. The investment is beyond the means of a single country. That's just the finance let alone the knowledge and expertise. |
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"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
As already stated by Mercury estimated cost for a UK system is £3 billion. Claiming a possible £1 billion back from the EU for Galileo leaves £2 billion. The UK companies and contractors who worked on Galileo already have valuable know how and expertise on the systems involved.
The UK has already announced plans for UK space ports to be built and made ready in Cornwall and Scotland earlier this year not just for Galileo but for other projects the UK space agency has in the pipeline. Extra long runway in Cornwall already exists as it was there for Space Shuttle emergency landings. It's not just government funded projects anyway space travel will become commercialised, Richard Branson's Virgin group has already made plans in the area of commercial space travel. If we leave the EU without a deal the UK keeps the £40 billion divorce bill, Dominic Raab brexit secretary made it clear on Thursday when the no deal technical notes were released so some of the £40 billion could possibly go towards a new UK GPS system.
A replacement for Galileo is estimated at Euros 9bn to which the UK has contributed Euros 1.4bn. Much, if not all of that contribution, possibly more, has gone to UK firms. Original budget was £3bn.
The "valuable knowledge" is not just held in the heads of British people in British companies. We are riddled with Jonny foreigners who will take their knowledge with them. They already are.
We do not have £40bn to spend on anything if we don't pay it to the EU. It won't be "available" to spend in anything. It's all debt.
Building spaceports don't make for a commercially viable industry. The investment is beyond the means of a single country. That's just the finance let alone the knowledge and expertise."
We'll still have access to some IP through the European Space Agency which we will still be part of. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system.
As already stated by Mercury estimated cost for a UK system is £3 billion. Claiming a possible £1 billion back from the EU for Galileo leaves £2 billion. The UK companies and contractors who worked on Galileo already have valuable know how and expertise on the systems involved.
The UK has already announced plans for UK space ports to be built and made ready in Cornwall and Scotland earlier this year not just for Galileo but for other projects the UK space agency has in the pipeline. Extra long runway in Cornwall already exists as it was there for Space Shuttle emergency landings. It's not just government funded projects anyway space travel will become commercialised, Richard Branson's Virgin group has already made plans in the area of commercial space travel. If we leave the EU without a deal the UK keeps the £40 billion divorce bill, Dominic Raab brexit secretary made it clear on Thursday when the no deal technical notes were released so some of the £40 billion could possibly go towards a new UK GPS system.
A replacement for Galileo is estimated at Euros 9bn to which the UK has contributed Euros 1.4bn. Much, if not all of that contribution, possibly more, has gone to UK firms. Original budget was £3bn.
The "valuable knowledge" is not just held in the heads of British people in British companies. We are riddled with Jonny foreigners who will take their knowledge with them. They already are.
We do not have £40bn to spend on anything if we don't pay it to the EU. It won't be "available" to spend in anything. It's all debt.
Building spaceports don't make for a commercially viable industry. The investment is beyond the means of a single country. That's just the finance let alone the knowledge and expertise.
We'll still have access to some IP through the European Space Agency which we will still be part of."
It's a bit of a sloppy second though, isn't it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So apparently we now have to develop our own GPS satellite system because we won't be allowed to access the EU Galileo system - apparently the budget for the UK replacement will be rather limited because of the money already spent.
We have paid in £1,200m to a system that will cost £9,000m to complete. Our government have put aside £92m so far for a UK only system.
I wonder where Brexiters think we will find the extra £8,908m to complete the system. "
The Brexit dividend, silly Billy  |
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