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Sir Norman Bettison
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" So the CPS have dropped all charges against Sir Norman Bettison the officer in charge at Hillsborough through lack of evidence.
What are your thoughts on this? "
Because it will serve no further purpose to keep going with it all, there were faults on both sides.
Lessons were learned so as to stop it happening again. |
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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
" So the CPS have dropped all charges against Sir Norman Bettison the officer in charge at Hillsborough through lack of evidence.
What are your thoughts on this?
Because it will serve no further purpose to keep going with it all, there were faults on both sides.
Lessons were learned so as to stop it happening again."
. Tell that to the families of the 96 who died |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
There was no hope of taking this man to trial. Two of the major witnesses have changed their evidence, and another has died.
This would have been carefully weighed up by the independent CPS, and they have acted accordingly. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It's unfortunate for the relatives, to say the least.
Justice would bring some closure.
But I guess the prosecutors weighed up the prospect of conviction and concluded they may struggle to cross the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold.
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
" So the CPS have dropped all charges against Sir Norman Bettison the officer in charge at Hillsborough through lack of evidence.
What are your thoughts on this? "
And just a correction. Bettison wasn't in charge at Hillsborough that day. That was David Duckinfield, whose trial for 95 counts of manslaughter starts in January. |
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"Because it will serve no further purpose to keep going with it all, there were faults on both sides.
Lessons were learned so as to stop it happening again."
Yep...
How dare the families of the dead expect that the senior police officers who oversaw the mass manipulation of police contemporaneous records (that's conspiracy to fraud, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and conspiracy to corruptions of every one of those public offices) expect that the most senior officers be held accountable for their criminality.
Next thing will be that someone starts demanding that police be held to a higher standard of probity than the general public. |
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" So the CPS have dropped all charges against Sir Norman Bettison the officer in charge at Hillsborough through lack of evidence.
What are your thoughts on this?
Because it will serve no further purpose to keep going with it all, there were faults on both sides.
Lessons were learned so as to stop it happening again."
On the day the 'faults' were only with those charged under their public duties and private responsibilities hence the verdicts of unlawfully killed due to gross negligence etc..
will say no more with the case being live against some people still despite today's decision over Bettison whom as rightly said was not the match commander..
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"On the day the 'faults' were only with those charged under their public duties and private responsibilities hence the verdicts of unlawfully killed due to gross negligence etc..
will say no more with the case being live against some people still despite today's decision over Bettison whom as rightly said was not the match commander..
"
Are you suggesting that the well documented fact that senior officers who spent the evening of the 'disaster' in a gymnasium overseeing the altering of all police notes to tell the same false story blaming the dead for police incompetence should get a walk because they were not at the match? |
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"On the day the 'faults' were only with those charged under their public duties and private responsibilities hence the verdicts of unlawfully killed due to gross negligence etc..
will say no more with the case being live against some people still despite today's decision over Bettison whom as rightly said was not the match commander..
Are you suggesting that the well documented fact that senior officers who spent the evening of the 'disaster' in a gymnasium overseeing the altering of all police notes to tell the same false story blaming the dead for police incompetence should get a walk because they were not at the match?"
Kin eck mate that's a stretch beyond imagination from what i posted..?
i know what went on before, during and after like anyone else who had family there let alone a friend on the pitch doing cpr ..
what i am saying is pretty clear, there is still a live case and given the families themselves are calling for caution in using social media on the remaining people involved i will leave that there..
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"Kin eck mate that's a stretch beyond imagination from what i posted..?
i know what went on before, during and after like anyone else who had family there let alone a friend on the pitch doing cpr ..
what i am saying is pretty clear, there is still a live case and given the families themselves are calling for caution in using social media on the remaining people involved i will leave that there..
"
Sorry crossed lines I think. I just think that those higher in the chain of command need to be held to account for the 30 year cover up.
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"Kin eck mate that's a stretch beyond imagination from what i posted..?
i know what went on before, during and after like anyone else who had family there let alone a friend on the pitch doing cpr ..
what i am saying is pretty clear, there is still a live case and given the families themselves are calling for caution in using social media on the remaining people involved i will leave that there..
Sorry crossed lines I think. I just think that those higher in the chain of command need to be held to account for the 30 year cover up.
"
No worries and thanks, totally agree with you on that..
every last one of them and the other's associated with it.. |
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"No worries and thanks, totally agree with you on that..
every last one of them and the other's associated with it.."
The think that really gets me about the whole stinking shitheap that was South Yorkshire Police is it is the same fuckers that covered up the Rotherham sex abuse scandal and protected SaVile. Of course no senior police officers were held to account for either of those too. I just wonder what else will come to light in another 30 years when the perpetrators are all dead... |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Is he guilty or not guilty?I do not know,I do think he was incompetent.Be that as it may you cannot expect a senior police officer to be found guilty,The powers that be will allways look after each other.The whole thing is a farce because even if 100% guilty nobody in his position will be found anything but not guilty.
Cynical maybe but it is what I do believe |
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" So the CPS have dropped all charges against Sir Norman Bettison the officer in charge at Hillsborough through lack of evidence.
What are your thoughts on this?
Because it will serve no further purpose to keep going with it all, there were faults on both sides.
Lessons were learned so as to stop it happening again.
On the day the 'faults' were only with those charged under their public duties and private responsibilities hence the verdicts of unlawfully killed due to gross negligence etc..
will say no more with the case being live against some people still despite today's decision over Bettison whom as rightly said was not the match commander..
"
Sorry but i was in the other end that day and it will live with me forever, and yes police officers stood by while people were dying and then did their level best to hide it, however the fact remains had over 5000 liverpool fans not turned up without tickets there would have been no tragedy at all |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Liverpool fans fully exonerated from any blame
By the public enquiry
So how come you place blame at our feet "
No one is placing blame at the feet of Liverpool supporters and in fact the Liverpool supporters were completely exonerated officially. The blame lay with the stadium design, entry policies and Policing.
That said, for those of us who went to football matches in that era it was a well known fact that thousands of Liverpool supporters were well known for turning up at away games (and third party cup venues) without tickets in the knowledge that they could get through turnstiles by tailgating or at worst bribing the attendant to let them slip under the turnstile. Many supporters did this, but as Liverpool were the most successful Club at the time and were the best supported away team - they had the label attached to them of this kind of behaviour.
When any kind of tragedy unfolds, it is never because of one failing. It is almost as if multiple slices of cheese all have to fall together and incredibly the holes all line up together. The blame for Hillsborough lies squarely with the stadium design, its entry policies and failures of the Police to control the crowd outside who - because of a number of factors all happened to arrive at the wrong moment and thereby compounding the crowd control issue. The holes in the cheese were already lined up with regard to the stadium failings. Entry policies and poor crowd control were to other slices that quickly lined up on that day and then the supporters - ticketed and ticketless turned up...
The blame does not lie with Liverpool supporters because of the failings that were evident elsewhere but certainly had ticketless fans not travelled on that day, the tragedy may well have not unfolded on that occasion - or at all. The ticketless supporters were as much victims as anyone else. |
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" So the CPS have dropped all charges against Sir Norman Bettison the officer in charge at Hillsborough through lack of evidence.
What are your thoughts on this?
Because it will serve no further purpose to keep going with it all, there were faults on both sides.
Lessons were learned so as to stop it happening again.
On the day the 'faults' were only with those charged under their public duties and private responsibilities hence the verdicts of unlawfully killed due to gross negligence etc..
will say no more with the case being live against some people still despite today's decision over Bettison whom as rightly said was not the match commander..
Sorry but i was in the other end that day and it will live with me forever, and yes police officers stood by while people were dying and then did their level best to hide it, however the fact remains had over 5000 liverpool fans not turned up without tickets there would have been no tragedy at all "
Look online at the judgement..
Look at the issues on that ground previously, look at other football disasters where other innocent people lost their lives who only went to watch a game..
This wasn't the first time..
Look at the others, think a bit about the whys and how's and then look again at Hillsborough and not just how, why, what where and when..
Look at others actions before, during and after..
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"Liverpool fans fully exonerated from any blame
By the public enquiry
So how come you place blame at our feet
No one is placing blame at the feet of Liverpool supporters and in fact the Liverpool supporters were completely exonerated officially. The blame lay with the stadium design, entry policies and Policing.
That said, for those of us who went to football matches in that era it was a well known fact that thousands of Liverpool supporters were well known for turning up at away games (and third party cup venues) without tickets in the knowledge that they could get through turnstiles by tailgating or at worst bribing the attendant to let them slip under the turnstile. Many supporters did this, but as Liverpool were the most successful Club at the time and were the best supported away team - they had the label attached to them of this kind of behaviour.
When any kind of tragedy unfolds, it is never because of one failing. It is almost as if multiple slices of cheese all have to fall together and incredibly the holes all line up together. The blame for Hillsborough lies squarely with the stadium design, its entry policies and failures of the Police to control the crowd outside who - because of a number of factors all happened to arrive at the wrong moment and thereby compounding the crowd control issue. The holes in the cheese were already lined up with regard to the stadium failings. Entry policies and poor crowd control were to other slices that quickly lined up on that day and then the supporters - ticketed and ticketless turned up...
The blame does not lie with Liverpool supporters because of the failings that were evident elsewhere but certainly had ticketless fans not travelled on that day, the tragedy may well have not unfolded on that occasion - or at all. The ticketless supporters were as much victims as anyone else."
Agreed..
Fans attending the game in those and previous times were treated like cattle by that industry which has had to change, sad fact is that more fans have died at other grounds before Hillsborough for the same and similar in competencies, failings and neglect of duties and nothing changed so another disaster was going to happen..
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Liverpool fans fully exonerated from any blame
By the public enquiry
So how come you place blame at our feet
No one is placing blame at the feet of Liverpool supporters and in fact the Liverpool supporters were completely exonerated officially. The blame lay with the stadium design, entry policies and Policing.
That said, for those of us who went to football matches in that era it was a well known fact that thousands of Liverpool supporters were well known for turning up at away games (and third party cup venues) without tickets in the knowledge that they could get through turnstiles by tailgating or at worst bribing the attendant to let them slip under the turnstile. Many supporters did this, but as Liverpool were the most successful Club at the time and were the best supported away team - they had the label attached to them of this kind of behaviour.
When any kind of tragedy unfolds, it is never because of one failing. It is almost as if multiple slices of cheese all have to fall together and incredibly the holes all line up together. The blame for Hillsborough lies squarely with the stadium design, its entry policies and failures of the Police to control the crowd outside who - because of a number of factors all happened to arrive at the wrong moment and thereby compounding the crowd control issue. The holes in the cheese were already lined up with regard to the stadium failings. Entry policies and poor crowd control were to other slices that quickly lined up on that day and then the supporters - ticketed and ticketless turned up...
The blame does not lie with Liverpool supporters because of the failings that were evident elsewhere but certainly had ticketless fans not travelled on that day, the tragedy may well have not unfolded on that occasion - or at all. The ticketless supporters were as much victims as anyone else."
How are ticketless fans victims? If you don't have a ticket, why make an 80 mile journey and turn up at the venue? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Liverpool fans fully exonerated from any blame
By the public enquiry
So how come you place blame at our feet
No one is placing blame at the feet of Liverpool supporters and in fact the Liverpool supporters were completely exonerated officially. The blame lay with the stadium design, entry policies and Policing.
That said, for those of us who went to football matches in that era it was a well known fact that thousands of Liverpool supporters were well known for turning up at away games (and third party cup venues) without tickets in the knowledge that they could get through turnstiles by tailgating or at worst bribing the attendant to let them slip under the turnstile. Many supporters did this, but as Liverpool were the most successful Club at the time and were the best supported away team - they had the label attached to them of this kind of behaviour.
When any kind of tragedy unfolds, it is never because of one failing. It is almost as if multiple slices of cheese all have to fall together and incredibly the holes all line up together. The blame for Hillsborough lies squarely with the stadium design, its entry policies and failures of the Police to control the crowd outside who - because of a number of factors all happened to arrive at the wrong moment and thereby compounding the crowd control issue. The holes in the cheese were already lined up with regard to the stadium failings. Entry policies and poor crowd control were to other slices that quickly lined up on that day and then the supporters - ticketed and ticketless turned up...
The blame does not lie with Liverpool supporters because of the failings that were evident elsewhere but certainly had ticketless fans not travelled on that day, the tragedy may well have not unfolded on that occasion - or at all. The ticketless supporters were as much victims as anyone else.
How are ticketless fans victims? If you don't have a ticket, why make an 80 mile journey and turn up at the venue? "
Because in those days it was easy to get into a ground without a ticket. Turnstiles counted turns and the attendants money was cross referenced against turns. Two people could tailgate one turn and as the turnstile was only thigh high, it was easy to get under it.
Was it wrong? Yes of course it was wrong but happened a lot and Liverpool supporters by nature of how they felt victimised by the country (specifically Thatchers policies) they had an answer in following the country’s most successful football team of the time. For some, following the Liverpool team home and away was a response to the social situation at the time. No one deserves to die for going to a sporting event with, or without a ticket.
I agree though - had those ticketless fans not gone and had they not all arrived at the same time maybe the tragedy would never have happened, or maybe it would have happened on another occasion, on another day and to different people. The fact remains that other failures lead to their deaths.
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"Liverpool fans fully exonerated from any blame
By the public enquiry
So how come you place blame at our feet
No one is placing blame at the feet of Liverpool supporters and in fact the Liverpool supporters were completely exonerated officially. The blame lay with the stadium design, entry policies and Policing.
That said, for those of us who went to football matches in that era it was a well known fact that thousands of Liverpool supporters were well known for turning up at away games (and third party cup venues) without tickets in the knowledge that they could get through turnstiles by tailgating or at worst bribing the attendant to let them slip under the turnstile. Many supporters did this, but as Liverpool were the most successful Club at the time and were the best supported away team - they had the label attached to them of this kind of behaviour.
When any kind of tragedy unfolds, it is never because of one failing. It is almost as if multiple slices of cheese all have to fall together and incredibly the holes all line up together. The blame for Hillsborough lies squarely with the stadium design, its entry policies and failures of the Police to control the crowd outside who - because of a number of factors all happened to arrive at the wrong moment and thereby compounding the crowd control issue. The holes in the cheese were already lined up with regard to the stadium failings. Entry policies and poor crowd control were to other slices that quickly lined up on that day and then the supporters - ticketed and ticketless turned up...
The blame does not lie with Liverpool supporters because of the failings that were evident elsewhere but certainly had ticketless fans not travelled on that day, the tragedy may well have not unfolded on that occasion - or at all. The ticketless supporters were as much victims as anyone else.
How are ticketless fans victims? If you don't have a ticket, why make an 80 mile journey and turn up at the venue? "
Many people attend such events even now without tickets, pop concerts other sporting events..
True not all will be looking to get in without a ticket as these days that has largely stopped but a person at an event whomever they are and has the right not to be unlawfully killed or even murdered just because they are there.. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Liverpool fans fully exonerated from any blame
By the public enquiry
So how come you place blame at our feet
No one is placing blame at the feet of Liverpool supporters and in fact the Liverpool supporters were completely exonerated officially. The blame lay with the stadium design, entry policies and Policing.
That said, for those of us who went to football matches in that era it was a well known fact that thousands of Liverpool supporters were well known for turning up at away games (and third party cup venues) without tickets in the knowledge that they could get through turnstiles by tailgating or at worst bribing the attendant to let them slip under the turnstile. Many supporters did this, but as Liverpool were the most successful Club at the time and were the best supported away team - they had the label attached to them of this kind of behaviour.
When any kind of tragedy unfolds, it is never because of one failing. It is almost as if multiple slices of cheese all have to fall together and incredibly the holes all line up together. The blame for Hillsborough lies squarely with the stadium design, its entry policies and failures of the Police to control the crowd outside who - because of a number of factors all happened to arrive at the wrong moment and thereby compounding the crowd control issue. The holes in the cheese were already lined up with regard to the stadium failings. Entry policies and poor crowd control were to other slices that quickly lined up on that day and then the supporters - ticketed and ticketless turned up...
The blame does not lie with Liverpool supporters because of the failings that were evident elsewhere but certainly had ticketless fans not travelled on that day, the tragedy may well have not unfolded on that occasion - or at all. The ticketless supporters were as much victims as anyone else.
How are ticketless fans victims? If you don't have a ticket, why make an 80 mile journey and turn up at the venue?
Many people attend such events even now without tickets, pop concerts other sporting events..
True not all will be looking to get in without a ticket as these days that has largely stopped but a person at an event whomever they are and has the right not to be unlawfully killed or even murdered just because they are there.. "
The 96 killed though, were the ones that got there in good time and had entered the ground with tickets.
For some reason, some Liverpool fans feel it like a badge of honour to get into games without tickets. Books on football fans have many tales on how they did it.
There is plenty of antedoctal evidence of ticketless Liverpool fans at big games like the 1989 Cup Final, 2005 and 2018 Champions League Finals. I'm not saying that such behaviour is exclusive but even after the Hillsborough tragedy and the many Authorities telling ticketless fans to keep away, they still persist. |
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I have been a fan attending games home and away for most of my life.
Arriving at the stadium late didn’t make the decision to open the gates
Arriving without tickets is and always has been
The norm with any set of supporters
As far as who is to blame people with letters
After their names say
The police and officials lied and fabricated a coverup, Liverpool fans totally innocent
Devoid of any wrongdoing
YNWA |
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