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Revised cost of hs2
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Why is at a white elephant? Why can't we make progress? Are we always going to stick with Victorian infrastructure and 125mph trains, in the case of the East Coast Main Line, from the 1970s and early 1990s, on a service that is slower now than it was in the 1990s.
Doesn't anyone ever travel to London, or to Edinburgh regularly? Doesn't anyone ever look at the speeds in China, Japan, France, Italy, Germany?
And as for the motorways - It takes 2hrs 15 minutes from the centre of Leeds to Kings Cross, and it takes 2 hours 24 from York to Edinburgh.
Lewis Hamilton couldn't beat those times, however much you improve the motorways, let alone pretending that there are no speed cameras, and to drive at the necessary speeds who be illegal and reckless. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Unsure why we are even bothering. HS1 is a pile of rubbish anyway. Invest the money into the roads instead."
Why do you think HS1 is "a pile of rubbish"?
Did you ever experience Eurostar trundling through Kent at 50mph? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Why do you think HS1 is "a pile of rubbish"?
Did you ever experience Eurostar trundling through Kent at 50mph?"
Over crowded, over priced, not enough loos, too slow compared to foreign trains, constant delays and cancellations. Just afew things.
It our rail network was like Japan’s I would say yeah sure build it.
Used to use the Eurostar a lot but prefer to drive to Europe now. Which is atleast two to three times a month.
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"Why is at a white elephant? Why can't we make progress? Are we always going to stick with Victorian infrastructure and 125mph trains, in the case of the East Coast Main Line, from the 1970s and early 1990s, on a service that is slower now than it was in the 1990s.
Doesn't anyone ever travel to London, or to Edinburgh regularly? Doesn't anyone ever look at the speeds in China, Japan, France, Italy, Germany?
And as for the motorways - It takes 2hrs 15 minutes from the centre of Leeds to Kings Cross, and it takes 2 hours 24 from York to Edinburgh.
Lewis Hamilton couldn't beat those times, however much you improve the motorways, let alone pretending that there are no speed cameras, and to drive at the necessary speeds who be illegal and reckless."
It is a white elephant as it is hugely expensive and solves none of the current problems with the railways |
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Yes it does! It will speed up Leeds, York and Edinburgh to London when it is finished and it creates capacity, so we won't get those constant announcements:
"This is your train manager speaking. The reason for the current slow running, is because we are being held behind a slow moving commuter/goods train. We will not be able to overtake it for another X minutes and therefore the new arrival time into X with be timetable plus X. We apologise for any delay that this may cause"
The fact that I can repeat it verbatim, tells you how often that I travel, and how often that it happens. |
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"It is a white elephant as it is hugely expensive and solves none of the current problems with the railways"
sacking 'failing' grayling however, would be a very good start and wouldn't cost the country one single penny |
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"Unsure why we are even bothering. HS1 is a pile of rubbish anyway. Invest the money into the roads instead."
 Agree.
HS2 is now way over budget and would be years out of date by the time it's completed. It should be scrapped and new plans made for a newer much faster line with the latest technology.
I also agree about the roads the M6 in the Midlands around Birmingham is a nightmare and over congested. Money from HS2 should be diverted to nationalise the underused M6 toll, to alleviate pressure on the M6.
The M6 toll is another white elephant that was a waste of money in its current form. |
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" the M6 in the Midlands around Birmingham is a nightmare and over congested. Money from HS2 should be diverted to nationalise the underused M6 toll, to alleviate pressure on the M6.
The M6 toll is another white elephant that was a waste of money in its current form. "
absolutely no need .... just yet another white elephant in an area of the country that already has far too many roads ... the forthcoming tory party congestion charge for the area inside the motorway ring, coupled with the much needed pollution charge and diesel ban that is ear marked for the same area and surrounding towns will take most of the traffic off the roads and so relieve the motorway congestion so the through traffic will flow properly. with the obvious added bonus that it will not cost anything, but in fact, will generate money for transport infrastucture investment in areas that have more need of conectivity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's very clear that you're all unemployed, with no money, and bitter, and that you never go anywhere and cannot afford to, and that you don't care about those of us who do."
Haha really? Wow.
FYI I have my own company, a successful one at that. I operate worldwide, mostly Europe and North America. Pretty sure I can afford to use the train, but driving is far more easier in the UK. I’m full of joy, happiness and ambition to succeed in life.
I do care about the poor but building a HS2 is stupid. It won’t help them. Prices from where I’m from is around £64 a day to use HS1 to London or around £6900 for a yearly ticket including the tube. Poor people can’t afford these prices therefore, it won’t help them. They can run a car, so upgrading the road would better suit them, lowering fuel taxes/duty would also.
More likely it’s the other way round. You are poor, bitter and don’t care about other and only yourself but hey I don’t know you but way you come across seems that way. Chill out and have a wank. |
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I'm far from poor, and I'm not bitter at all. I travel. No one else seems to address my point about the journey times
The only stupid suggestion was build more motorways, yet no one addressed the fact that cannot beat the train from Yorkshire to London or to Scotland, whatever motorway you build, nor can you drive as cheaply as you can use the train from here to London, if you book 1st class in advance. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm far from poor, and I'm not bitter at all. I travel. No one else seems to address my point about the journey times
The only stupid suggestion was build more motorways, yet no one addressed the fact that cannot beat the train from Yorkshire to London or to Scotland, whatever motorway you build, nor can you drive as cheaply as you can use the train from here to London, if you book 1st class in advance."
You’re right. Time wise you can’t but upgrading the motorways and increasing speed limits will help.
With advance tickets from where I am, for two singles, as you can’t by a return. It’s £13.50 each way, so £27. You are also limited to selected off peak train, not all off peak just some. This will restrict times you can travel. They are also limited in number and can not be used for a different service. So if you miss it you are out of luck and have to buy a full price ticket at the gate. I wonder how much a HS2 ticket would be? I can’t see many poor folk affording it every day. Do you know how much it would be? Pretty sure it would be more than what I’d have to pay, as the distance between London and York is much further than where I’m from.
Also poor people don’t usually commute into London, they tend to stay in their home town due to the cost of travel and unlikely to find a decent job in London. Sad but it’s how things are. |
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"It's very clear that you're all unemployed, with no money, and bitter, and that you never go anywhere and cannot afford to, and that you don't care about those of us who do."
I finished work about an hour ago when I last posted on this thread.
How do you expect builders who carry tools and materials to lump all that stuff around on the trains every day?  |
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"I'm far from poor, and I'm not bitter at all. I travel. No one else seems to address my point about the journey times
The only stupid suggestion was build more motorways, yet no one addressed the fact that cannot beat the train from Yorkshire to London or to Scotland, whatever motorway you build, nor can you drive as cheaply as you can use the train from here to London, if you book 1st class in advance."
Journey times.....HS2 is expected to save between 45 minutes to an hour on a journey from Birmingham to London compared to currently available trains. Just not worth it in my opinion.
Also no one on the thread has said more motorways should be built. I said the already existing and underused M6 toll should be nationalised and be made free to use (instead of a toll road) to alleviate pressure on the over congested M6. |
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"I'm far from poor, and I'm not bitter at all. I travel. No one else seems to address my point about the journey times
The only stupid suggestion was build more motorways, yet no one addressed the fact that cannot beat the train from Yorkshire to London or to Scotland, whatever motorway you build, nor can you drive as cheaply as you can use the train from here to London, if you book 1st class in advance.
Journey times.....HS2 is expected to save between 45 minutes to an hour on a journey from Birmingham to London compared to currently available trains. Just not worth it in my opinion.
Also no one on the thread has said more motorways should be built. I said the already existing and underused M6 toll should be nationalised and be made free to use (instead of a toll road) to alleviate pressure on the over congested M6. "
Actually it is set to save 32 minutes but factor in the current journey takes you to new street , right in the heart of the city , hs2 station set to be by the airport a good 30 minutes from the city centre and its no quicker that cannot be worth 100bn |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I'm far from poor, and I'm not bitter at all. I travel. No one else seems to address my point about the journey times
The only stupid suggestion was build more motorways, yet no one addressed the fact that cannot beat the train from Yorkshire to London or to Scotland, whatever motorway you build, nor can you drive as cheaply as you can use the train from here to London, if you book 1st class in advance.
Journey times.....HS2 is expected to save between 45 minutes to an hour on a journey from Birmingham to London compared to currently available trains. Just not worth it in my opinion.
Also no one on the thread has said more motorways should be built. I said the already existing and underused M6 toll should be nationalised and be made free to use (instead of a toll road) to alleviate pressure on the over congested M6.
Actually it is set to save 32 minutes but factor in the current journey takes you to new street , right in the heart of the city , hs2 station set to be by the airport a good 30 minutes from the city centre and its no quicker that cannot be worth 100bn"
Birmingham HS2 station is going to be at Curzon Street. A 10 minute walk into the city centre, and will probably be on the tramline by the time that the station is built. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's very clear that you're all unemployed, with no money, and bitter, and that you never go anywhere and cannot afford to, and that you don't care about those of us who do."
Fucking hell, he's at it again  |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"I just can't see anything like this mismanagement of costs happening in the private sector"
318 out of 1346 staff at HS2 are on salaries of £100k and over, that's nearly a quarter!
They also spent over £600k on consultants last year. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"still far far cheaper and would get more use than trident has or will though "
Trident is needed in the world we live in. Sad but it’s how it is. World peace would be great but all the time religion is around, there will be war. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"still far far cheaper and would get more use than trident has or will though
Trident is needed in the world we live in. Sad but it’s how it is. World peace would be great but all the time religion is around, there will be war. "
Trident won't help against terrorists or any recent threat or war we've engaged in.Its a Cold War tool.
Nuclear weapons are yesterday's tool. |
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"still far far cheaper and would get more use than trident has or will though
Trident is needed in the world we live in. Sad but it’s how it is. World peace would be great but all the time religion is around, there will be war.
Trident won't help against terrorists or any recent threat or war we've engaged in.Its a Cold War tool.
Nuclear weapons are yesterday's tool. "
Anytime Russia do anything these days you shit your pants. Russia are a nuclear power and you want to give up our nukes? Insane. |
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"still far far cheaper and would get more use than trident has or will though
Trident is needed in the world we live in. Sad but it’s how it is. World peace would be great but all the time religion is around, there will be war.
Trident won't help against terrorists or any recent threat or war we've engaged in.Its a Cold War tool.
Nuclear weapons are yesterday's tool.
Anytime Russia do anything these days you shit your pants. Russia are a nuclear power and you want to give up our nukes? Insane. "
The irony of using the word insane on a post about the sheer stupidity and pointlessness of nuclear proliferation will be lost on you..
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Money from HS2 should be diverted to nationalise the underused M6 toll, to alleviate pressure on the M6.
NATIONALISM!
That sounds a bit like SOCIALISM!!
You're a COMMUNIST all along!!!"
Ukip must be a communist party then as Ukip has been calling for the M6 toll to be nationalised for years, it's even been in the Ukip party manifesto.
I think nationalisation in some cases can be helpful but as a member of the EU the rules of the club forbid nationalisation of industry. Now we're leaving Brexit can enable nationalisation of things like the steel industry if we decide we want to (or we elect a government that wants to). It's one of the reasons why Dennis Skinner, Frank Field, Kate Hoey and others in Labour support Brexit. |
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I think it's the wrong solution to the problem in many ways.
Firstly the taxpayer carries the risk, the private operator carries certainty - especially if other current capacity is used for other purposes.
The train lines start and stop at the wrong places - stations that aren't the current main stations. They're not a convenient part of a joined up network and schedule etc. This disconnect obliterates faster trains.
It's a vanity project for certain politicians who are happy to keep sinking $millions in to it - current costs are enormous and would not be tolerated without government guarantees and zero risk for this monstrosity.
We need higher train capacity on many routes, including midlands to south east. I view this damaging vehicle of vanity as the wrong solution as well as economically the wrong solution with public funds. It should have faced serious revision from the start of austerity measures.
It's a bold move to admit mistakes but whoever did this over HS2 would be applauded imo. |
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