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Hypothetically
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"How do you define "pays off"?" Economy/GDP increases, unemployment drops, sterling becomes strong etc (As a disclaimer, I would like to point out I'm not an economics expert) | |||
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"We'll all be dead or very old, according to Mogg whatshisface. I read he said it will be 50 years before the UK sees any benefit from leaving the EU. I didn't see any elaboration on that, so I don't know the hows and whys of it. " I've seen a lot of theories behind Brexit and what will happen, but no facts or evidence or even a solid theory, just a one line "be years before anything happens" | |||
"How do you define "pays off"? Economy/GDP increases, unemployment drops, sterling becomes strong etc (As a disclaimer, I would like to point out I'm not an economics expert)" It’s unlikely  | |||
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"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" Pays off I in what way? It seems unlikely that we’ll get as good or better deal than if we’d stayed in the E.U. That would be called “staying in the E.U.”. And it’s hard to imagine us negotiating a better deal with other non EU countries than the E.U. would be able to, what with us being a far smaller trading entity than the EU. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble " So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? | |||
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"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.?" what about the ones outlawing the measurements of straight bananas in feet and inches? | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China?" Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" I’m probably going to get shafted by the government, made to pay lots of tax for them to flit away on jobs for their old school friends. Much the same as if we’d have stayed really. | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" Happy to answer that if you can just clarify... what do you mean by Brexit? | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble " Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off? Happy to answer that if you can just clarify... what do you mean by Brexit? " Once the UK leave the EU. I'm hoping I'm using the correct terminology | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. " If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest " I work for Tata and things are solid again. Not perfect but with the merger we will be in an excellent position. Brexit May kill us though. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest I work for Tata and things are solid again. Not perfect but with the merger we will be in an excellent position. Brexit May kill us though. " Im your opinion, is the steel industry as a whole, as strong as it was in the 80s? | |||
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"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" And it already is for me | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off? And it already is for me" How so? | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off? And it already is for me How so?" He’s Boris Johnson  | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest I work for Tata and things are solid again. Not perfect but with the merger we will be in an excellent position. Brexit May kill us though. Im your opinion, is the steel industry as a whole, as strong as it was in the 80s?" Not even close but then I wasn’t born until 88. So limited experience. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest I work for Tata and things are solid again. Not perfect but with the merger we will be in an excellent position. Brexit May kill us though. Im your opinion, is the steel industry as a whole, as strong as it was in the 80s? Not even close but then I wasn’t born until 88. So limited experience. " 87 myself, only going on what I've read/heard | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.?" The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays | |||
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"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest I work for Tata and things are solid again. Not perfect but with the merger we will be in an excellent position. Brexit May kill us though. Im your opinion, is the steel industry as a whole, as strong as it was in the 80s? Not even close but then I wasn’t born until 88. So limited experience. 87 myself, only going on what I've read/heard" The media as usual is full of shit. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble Just a note on the Steel industry. It’s not on its last legs. If im wrong im ok with that. But Sheffield was a huge steel driven city, now most of it has gone, and Tata steel was on the slopes not so long back, not even sure what the aftermath was to be honest I work for Tata and things are solid again. Not perfect but with the merger we will be in an excellent position. Brexit May kill us though. Im your opinion, is the steel industry as a whole, as strong as it was in the 80s? Not even close but then I wasn’t born until 88. So limited experience. 87 myself, only going on what I've read/heard The media as usual is full of shit. " Not just media, people who worked in steel during the 80s, history books (albeit a few years a go now) | |||
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"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off? Happy to answer that if you can just clarify... what do you mean by Brexit? Once the UK leave the EU. I'm hoping I'm using the correct terminology " Do you mean just leave the EU or also the customs union etc? Do you mean with a deal or without? Are we talking simply a new way of being a part of Europe? Or are we talking full extraction from anything European? Which of all those things did the 52% vote for as being "Brexit"? I don't think if you claim humans can fly by simply swallowing a feather and some years later someone invents a plane... I don't think you can claim you've been vindicated. But yeah... if the NHS does end up getting £350 million a week or whatever the heck it was then I'd be pretty amazed. But I'd still want to rejoin Europe because I personally love free movement  | |||
"I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it." JFK was assassinated while “You’ll Never Walk Alone” was number one in the UK charts. Should we stop playing that song for the benefit of US Presidents? Which laws don’t we have a say in? (The answer is none, btw. Just to save you a bit of time.) "Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by?" They do. | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.? The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays " You mean the Human Rights Act? That UK law? | |||
"JFK was assassinated while “You’ll Never Walk Alone” was number one in the UK charts. Should we stop playing that song for the benefit of US Presidents? ." Christ, I think we should play it all the time | |||
"JFK was assassinated while “You’ll Never Walk Alone” was number one in the UK charts. Should we stop playing that song for the benefit of US Presidents? . Christ, I think we should play it all the time "Badoom-tish. | |||
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"I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. JFK was assassinated while “You’ll Never Walk Alone” was number one in the UK charts. Should we stop playing that song for the benefit of US Presidents? Which laws don’t we have a say in? (The answer is none, btw. Just to save you a bit of time.) Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? They do." That's fair, like I said, I'm not an expert, can only go by what I've heard or been told. Part of the point in this thread was to hear both sides. If you don't ask, you'll never know | |||
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"That's fair, like I said, I'm not an expert, can only go by what I've heard or been told. Part of the point in this thread was to hear both sides. If you don't ask, you'll never know" Your magnanimity is about two years too late, though. | |||
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"That's fair, like I said, I'm not an expert, can only go by what I've heard or been told. Part of the point in this thread was to hear both sides. If you don't ask, you'll never know Your magnanimity is about two years too late, though." Ok, won't happen again | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay?" Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. " We can talk about coal if you want. I did say at the beginning I wasn't an expert and tried to put forward my reason for wanting to leave the best I could. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm only human | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.? The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays You mean the Human Rights Act? That UK law?" European court of human rights i believe its called not british | |||
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"I personally think Bexit will, on the whole, be worse for the UK. I voted to remain for that reason. The world is a VERY different place to that prior to us joining the EU. As others have said... the Chinese and other emerging ecconomies didn't exist. These can produce goods at a much lower price and on our own our bargaining power is diluted. I think we are stronger together than alone. I also have concerns that the rights of workers and the vulnerable will be further eroded. I'm no expert... that's just my thoughts on it. I may be wrong. Nita" We can only vote on what we think was best. No one can say if we'll be better off one or the other and the truth is, well never know which one would have been better | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. We can talk about coal if you want. I did say at the beginning I wasn't an expert and tried to put forward my reason for wanting to leave the best I could. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm only human" OK. So put simply, can you say why you think the coal industry might see a resurgence as a result of leaving the E.U.? Can I ask if you still use coal on your home? If so, what would you say it’s advantages over gas? If not, why not? | |||
"I personally think Bexit will, on the whole, be worse for the UK. I voted to remain for that reason. The world is a VERY different place to that prior to us joining the EU. As others have said... the Chinese and other emerging ecconomies didn't exist. These can produce goods at a much lower price and on our own our bargaining power is diluted. I think we are stronger together than alone. I also have concerns that the rights of workers and the vulnerable will be further eroded. I'm no expert... that's just my thoughts on it. I may be wrong. Nita We can only vote on what we think was best. No one can say if we'll be better off one or the other and the truth is, well never know which one would have been better " Based on all the information available as presented by independent economic experts, we actually had a pretty good idea that leaving would have an overall negative impact. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. We can talk about coal if you want. I did say at the beginning I wasn't an expert and tried to put forward my reason for wanting to leave the best I could. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm only human OK. So put simply, can you say why you think the coal industry might see a resurgence as a result of leaving the E.U.? Can I ask if you still use coal on your home? If so, what would you say it’s advantages over gas? If not, why not?" I honestly don't know about a resurgence. I grew up in the village where the Yorkshire main was. I hear a lot of stories from my dad and his friends about how much they loved working down the pits and how much the village was better for it. They was all stood together during the strike and I suppose in a way it would be nice to have that kind bravadary again. But will it happen after Brexit, I don't know. I have a coal/log fire in my house and I love it. I can heat the entire house on a night (work in day) for about a tenner a month because I get logs for free and just have coal to stoke it up. I do have gas heating as well which is handy for when I've got the kids as I can heat the house quicker in a morning. | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.? The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays " Isn’t that because of the U.K. Human Rights Act? | |||
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"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. We can talk about coal if you want. I did say at the beginning I wasn't an expert and tried to put forward my reason for wanting to leave the best I could. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm only human OK. So put simply, can you say why you think the coal industry might see a resurgence as a result of leaving the E.U.? Can I ask if you still use coal on your home? If so, what would you say it’s advantages over gas? If not, why not? I honestly don't know about a resurgence. I grew up in the village where the Yorkshire main was. I hear a lot of stories from my dad and his friends about how much they loved working down the pits and how much the village was better for it. They was all stood together during the strike and I suppose in a way it would be nice to have that kind bravadary again. But will it happen after Brexit, I don't know. I have a coal/log fire in my house and I love it. I can heat the entire house on a night (work in day) for about a tenner a month because I get logs for free and just have coal to stoke it up. I do have gas heating as well which is handy for when I've got the kids as I can heat the house quicker in a morning." The point is that coal largely went down the way it did because people didn’t want to use it anymore. Leaving the E.U. will not change that. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. We can talk about coal if you want. I did say at the beginning I wasn't an expert and tried to put forward my reason for wanting to leave the best I could. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm only human OK. So put simply, can you say why you think the coal industry might see a resurgence as a result of leaving the E.U.? Can I ask if you still use coal on your home? If so, what would you say it’s advantages over gas? If not, why not? I honestly don't know about a resurgence. I grew up in the village where the Yorkshire main was. I hear a lot of stories from my dad and his friends about how much they loved working down the pits and how much the village was better for it. They was all stood together during the strike and I suppose in a way it would be nice to have that kind bravadary again. But will it happen after Brexit, I don't know. I have a coal/log fire in my house and I love it. I can heat the entire house on a night (work in day) for about a tenner a month because I get logs for free and just have coal to stoke it up. I do have gas heating as well which is handy for when I've got the kids as I can heat the house quicker in a morning. The point is that coal largely went down the way it did because people didn’t want to use it anymore. Leaving the E.U. will not change that." Also, and I'm going against my own argument here, it was also cheaper to buy it from abroad (think it was New Zealand we got the bulk of our import from) but I suppose you could ask, how come it was cheaper to buy it from outside the EU then produce our own or buy it from inside the EU. Probably cheaper labour but I honestly don't know | |||
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"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" Congratulate you on your wisdom. | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" Ill be the first to jump for joy! | |||
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"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off? Ill be the first to jump for joy!" Even if it's an economic boon I must confess I'd still be bummed. I really like the idea of basically owning Europe. Of being able to move and live and work anywhere there. I'd love to be able to start a business wherever too. But I suspect that's a way off. Having lived in the US, I'm a big fan of a United States of Europe with a similar democratic system to the US. But the UK always put the breaks on that idea, forcing the EU to limit itself to being the beurocratic beast it is. Hopefully without us it'll finally be able to turn that page and become more democratic. I know that's its vision. I just wish we had been part of that. If doing so had meant we either had to cut off our monarch's heads or relegate them to the equivalent of a reality TV freak show then I'd have been fine with that It's just a different way of looking at the world. It used to be called British. But I suspect it'd be deemed treacherous now... which imo isn't a very British way of looking at things either. So maybe nobody's being very British these days  | |||
"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off? Ill be the first to jump for joy! Even if it's an economic boon I must confess I'd still be bummed. I really like the idea of basically owning Europe. Of being able to move and live and work anywhere there. I'd love to be able to start a business wherever too. But I suspect that's a way off. Having lived in the US, I'm a big fan of a United States of Europe with a similar democratic system to the US. But the UK always put the breaks on that idea, forcing the EU to limit itself to being the beurocratic beast it is. Hopefully without us it'll finally be able to turn that page and become more democratic. I know that's its vision. I just wish we had been part of that. If doing so had meant we either had to cut off our monarch's heads or relegate them to the equivalent of a reality TV freak show then I'd have been fine with that It's just a different way of looking at the world. It used to be called British. But I suspect it'd be deemed treacherous now... which imo isn't a very British way of looking at things either. So maybe nobody's being very British these days "Wow what a different viewpoint there. Thanks for sharing. | |||
"Not related to your post, but to your reasoning. I'm a believer that technology will change the world. We should welcome change. But we should help societies go through it. When there was a decline in labour jobs we didn't help people continue into the digital age. We could be harsh and prevent organisations and technology disrupt us, but that is as bad as dictators banishing "The atom revolution" because it has the word revolution. Big global economies require us to compete at a bigger level. Name the top British brands that compete at a global level? Sorry topic drift. Ignore me. Below is something we share to new startups to disrupt industries. I'm sure shows like dragon's den and The Apprentice in fact encourages us to do it. "Amazon did not kill the retail industry. They did it to themselves with bad customer service. Netflix did not kill Blockbuster. They did it to themselves, with their ridiculous late payment fees. Uber did not kill the taxi business. They did it to themselves, with their limited number and fare control. Apple did not kill the music industry. They did it to themselves by forcing people to buy full-length albums. Airbnb did not kill the hotel industry. They did it to themselves with limited availability and pricing options."" I think it's as irresponsible to inspire entrepreneurs to disrupt for disruption's sake as it was to inspire people in the 80s that greed was good and to make money for money's sake. I hope that the next wave of disruptive startups will be more focused on the notion of disruption for good. Unfortunately what we really need is a new generation of disrupters disrupting the disrupters. But unfortunately, for all their celebration of competition and market disruption, the big fat cat disrupters like Google and Amazon now use their power to eat any startups that come anywhere near them and, so, have walled themselves off in almost impenetrable monopoly fortresses. I can't see how a disrupter could disrupt these companies. Not because they're products couldn't be massively improved. They could. But just because they'd kill them all off | |||
"Not related to your post, but to your reasoning. I'm a believer that technology will change the world. We should welcome change. But we should help societies go through it. When there was a decline in labour jobs we didn't help people continue into the digital age. We could be harsh and prevent organisations and technology disrupt us, but that is as bad as dictators banishing "The atom revolution" because it has the word revolution. Big global economies require us to compete at a bigger level. Name the top British brands that compete at a global level? Sorry topic drift. Ignore me. Below is something we share to new startups to disrupt industries. I'm sure shows like dragon's den and The Apprentice in fact encourages us to do it. "Amazon did not kill the retail industry. They did it to themselves with bad customer service. Netflix did not kill Blockbuster. They did it to themselves, with their ridiculous late payment fees. Uber did not kill the taxi business. They did it to themselves, with their limited number and fare control. Apple did not kill the music industry. They did it to themselves by forcing people to buy full-length albums. Airbnb did not kill the hotel industry. They did it to themselves with limited availability and pricing options." I think it's as irresponsible to inspire entrepreneurs to disrupt for disruption's sake as it was to inspire people in the 80s that greed was good and to make money for money's sake. I hope that the next wave of disruptive startups will be more focused on the notion of disruption for good. Unfortunately what we really need is a new generation of disrupters disrupting the disrupters. But unfortunately, for all their celebration of competition and market disruption, the big fat cat disrupters like Google and Amazon now use their power to eat any startups that come anywhere near them and, so, have walled themselves off in almost impenetrable monopoly fortresses. I can't see how a disrupter could disrupt these companies. Not because they're products couldn't be massively improved. They could. But just because they'd kill them all off " Their relatively new and so are still close enough to the cutting edge to thrive. Honestly, i even wouldn’t be suprised if Amazon is the Woolworths if out grandkids generation. | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.? The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays " that is a red herring.... you are actually allowed to deport to any country as long as the "death penalty" is not a sentence that can be given.... so for example..... Abu Qatada was not extridited to Jordan whilst they were saying the death penalty could be a possible sentence for his alledged crimes! once they came to an understanding that they would not persue the death penalty and would go for life imprisonment instead he was handed over.... ironically enough... two different trials in jordan, two seperate not guilty verdicts..... | |||
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"Hard cocks not hard borders "I'd cross your border any day 
Haha see! Even Brexit can be turned into a cheezy chat up line  | |||
"Their relatively new and so are still close enough to the cutting edge to thrive. Honestly, i even wouldn’t be suprised if Amazon is the Woolworths if out grandkids generation. " It's not as simple as that. They're actually aggressively buying up small startups and killing them off. They are aggressively defending their stake in ruthless ways, using their huge financial resources to maintain dominance and crush competition. As such, whilst it's relatively easy for a small novel online business to significantly disrupt a huge preexisting offline business, and improve our lives through doing so, it's becoming increasingly difficult for a small novel online business to significantly disrupt a huge preexisting online business. That should be a serious concern to us all | |||
"Their relatively new and so are still close enough to the cutting edge to thrive. Honestly, i even wouldn’t be suprised if Amazon is the Woolworths if out grandkids generation. It's not as simple as that. They're actually aggressively buying up small startups and killing them off. They are aggressively defending their stake in ruthless ways, using their huge financial resources to maintain dominance and crush competition. As such, whilst it's relatively easy for a small novel online business to significantly disrupt a huge preexisting offline business, and improve our lives through doing so, it's becoming increasingly difficult for a small novel online business to significantly disrupt a huge preexisting online business. That should be a serious concern to us all " youre seeing the disrupter being from the internet. Who knows what the next leap is ? | |||
"Their relatively new and so are still close enough to the cutting edge to thrive. Honestly, i even wouldn’t be suprised if Amazon is the Woolworths if out grandkids generation. It's not as simple as that. They're actually aggressively buying up small startups and killing them off. They are aggressively defending their stake in ruthless ways, using their huge financial resources to maintain dominance and crush competition. As such, whilst it's relatively easy for a small novel online business to significantly disrupt a huge preexisting offline business, and improve our lives through doing so, it's becoming increasingly difficult for a small novel online business to significantly disrupt a huge preexisting online business. That should be a serious concern to us all youre seeing the disrupter being from the internet. Who knows what the next leap is ?" I like your way of thinking Maybe it'll be aliens? | |||
"Not related to your post, but to your reasoning. I'm a believer that technology will change the world. We should welcome change. But we should help societies go through it. When there was a decline in labour jobs we didn't help people continue into the digital age. We could be harsh and prevent organisations and technology disrupt us, but that is as bad as dictators banishing "The atom revolution" because it has the word revolution. Big global economies require us to compete at a bigger level. Name the top British brands that compete at a global level? Sorry topic drift. Ignore me. Below is something we share to new startups to disrupt industries. I'm sure shows like dragon's den and The Apprentice in fact encourages us to do it. "Amazon did not kill the retail industry. They did it to themselves with bad customer service. Netflix did not kill Blockbuster. They did it to themselves, with their ridiculous late payment fees. Uber did not kill the taxi business. They did it to themselves, with their limited number and fare control. Apple did not kill the music industry. They did it to themselves by forcing people to buy full-length albums. Airbnb did not kill the hotel industry. They did it to themselves with limited availability and pricing options." I think it's as irresponsible to inspire entrepreneurs to disrupt for disruption's sake as it was to inspire people in the 80s that greed was good and to make money for money's sake. I hope that the next wave of disruptive startups will be more focused on the notion of disruption for good. Unfortunately what we really need is a new generation of disrupters disrupting the disrupters. But unfortunately, for all their celebration of competition and market disruption, the big fat cat disrupters like Google and Amazon now use their power to eat any startups that come anywhere near them and, so, have walled themselves off in almost impenetrable monopoly fortresses. I can't see how a disrupter could disrupt these companies. Not because they're products couldn't be massively improved. They could. But just because they'd kill them all off " Haha it's true. Google , Facebook and Amazon are the new monopolies. But in their own market. It's hard to disrupt the disrupter. There is the 0 to 1 rule that creates the monopoly. It's easy to copy but you need to differentiate to get the market share. We need disruption in technology. | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.? The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays " Nothing whatsoever to do with the EU. Here is why. The UK drew up the European Convention of Human Rights. Early 1950s. Post-war nations signed up to it - the ECHR curbed the power of the state to commit the homocidal and genocidal atrocities of WW11. Things like a right to life, the right to a fair trial etc. Protections for the citizen against unreasonable government interference in their life. A Conservative philosophy. Indeed, penned by a Conservative lawyer of the time. The European Court of Human Rights was established to ensure signatories upheld the various articles. For decades, it was a long and laborious process for any citizen to raise a case against the UK Govt at the European Court of Human Rights. It took years. Labour, following its General Election victory in the 1990s, brought in the Human Rights Act. This simply transferred the articles of the ECHR into UK law and meant a citizen could have their rights upheld in a UK court rather than the international one. A much quicker resolution. It is a myth spread by xenophobes that these have been foisted on us. The UK foisted them on the rest of Europe as a way of guaranteeing that Nazis never again could exterminate citizens of whom it disapproved. Which of the articles do you disagree with btw? | |||
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"YOu remainers do show how pig headed and stubborn you are,you must hate your children as you want it to fail. surely what ever the outcome you should try to get things right so it is right for your kids and there kids. Your minds are closed,which is proof that your vote had no thinking behind it. Should all these stupid remainers have been allowed a vote as they cannot be objective?" The original sin would be voting for the stupidity of brexit in the first place, rather than showing insufficient faith in the absolute omnishambles that has followed. | |||
"YOu remainers do show how pig headed and stubborn you are,you must hate your children as you want it to fail. surely what ever the outcome you should try to get things right so it is right for your kids and there kids. Your minds are closed,which is proof that your vote had no thinking behind it. Should all these stupid remainers have been allowed a vote as they cannot be objective?" Where has anyone said they want it to fail? | |||
"YOu remainers do show how pig headed and stubborn you are,you must hate your children as you want it to fail. surely what ever the outcome you should try to get things right so it is right for your kids and there kids. Your minds are closed,which is proof that your vote had no thinking behind it. Should all these stupid remainers have been allowed a vote as they cannot be objective?" I don't want to profess to be able to talk on behalf of all remainers but I suspect the key difference between both sides is that remainers are internationalists who see nationalism as a worrying step backwards to the kind of patriotic mumbo jumbo of the nazis whilst leavers are nationalists who see internationalism as a suspicious intellectual communist conspiracy. So perhaps for remainers leaving Europe itself is already a failure. So the very best outcome would be for it to fail abysmally and for us to need to return to Europe and therefore turn away from dangerous cloud cuckoo nationalism again and seriously engage with the international effort to engineer world peace. And that all those things would be much better for our children than an unhealthy rise of aggressive nationalism and the return to trade wars and world wars. Just a thought | |||
"YOu remainers do show how pig headed and stubborn you are,you must hate your children as you want it to fail. surely what ever the outcome you should try to get things right so it is right for your kids and there kids. Your minds are closed,which is proof that your vote had no thinking behind it. Should all these stupid remainers have been allowed a vote as they cannot be objective? I don't want to profess to be able to talk on behalf of all remainers but I suspect the key difference between both sides is that remainers are internationalists who see nationalism as a worrying step backwards to the kind of patriotic mumbo jumbo of the nazis whilst leavers are nationalists who see internationalism as a suspicious intellectual communist conspiracy. So perhaps for remainers leaving Europe itself is already a failure. So the very best outcome would be for it to fail abysmally and for us to need to return to Europe and therefore turn away from dangerous cloud cuckoo nationalism again and seriously engage with the international effort to engineer world peace. And that all those things would be much better for our children than an unhealthy rise of aggressive nationalism and the return to trade wars and world wars. Just a thought "This!!!
I have long seen this whole division as head vs heart. The internationalist want more integration and less nation vs nation competition. The nationalists seem to think they can rewind the clock to lots of competing petty kingdoms vying for resources and influence. And sadly little England is just not capable of that any more. Wages are just too high to complete and raw materials are in short supply on our island. | |||
"YOu remainers do show how pig headed and stubborn you are,you must hate your children as you want it to fail. surely what ever the outcome you should try to get things right so it is right for your kids and there kids. Your minds are closed,which is proof that your vote had no thinking behind it. Should all these stupid remainers have been allowed a vote as they cannot be objective?" Why are you so sure you are right ? You do realise this post comes across as being closed minded in itself ? | |||
" I don't want to profess to be able to talk on behalf of all remainers but I suspect the key difference between both sides is that remainers are internationalists who see nationalism as a worrying step backwards to the kind of patriotic mumbo jumbo of the nazis whilst leavers are nationalists who see internationalism as a suspicious intellectual communist conspiracy. So perhaps for remainers leaving Europe itself is already a failure. So the very best outcome would be for it to fail abysmally and for us to need to return to Europe and therefore turn away from dangerous cloud cuckoo nationalism again and seriously engage with the international effort to engineer world peace. And that all those things would be much better for our children than an unhealthy rise of aggressive nationalism and the return to trade wars and world wars. Just a thought "
I've often wondered why some leavers are not content with the UK leaving the EU - they also see it as their mission to smash the EU.
27 countries pooling their resources creates a powerful bloc that the UK simply cannot compete with. So long as they remained united, the classic tactic of the British to divide and rule is useless.
So smash the EU and replace it with lots of "small" countries, making the UK the big fish in the pond again.
Why else would Brexit activists campaign in other countries to stir up resentment towards the EU?
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" I don't want to profess to be able to talk on behalf of all remainers but I suspect the key difference between both sides is that remainers are internationalists who see nationalism as a worrying step backwards to the kind of patriotic mumbo jumbo of the nazis whilst leavers are nationalists who see internationalism as a suspicious intellectual communist conspiracy. So perhaps for remainers leaving Europe itself is already a failure. So the very best outcome would be for it to fail abysmally and for us to need to return to Europe and therefore turn away from dangerous cloud cuckoo nationalism again and seriously engage with the international effort to engineer world peace. And that all those things would be much better for our children than an unhealthy rise of aggressive nationalism and the return to trade wars and world wars. Just a thought
I've often wondered why some leavers are not content with the UK leaving the EU - they also see it as their mission to smash the EU.
27 countries pooling their resources creates a powerful bloc that the UK simply cannot compete with. So long as they remained united, the classic tactic of the British to divide and rule is useless.
So smash the EU and replace it with lots of "small" countries, making the UK the big fish in the pond again.
Why else would Brexit activists campaign in other countries to stir up resentment towards the EU?
"To be honest, most of the leave supporters I've spoken to are really not that far along in their though process. They are still stuck on straight bananas, and passport colours. -Matt | |||
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"What are all you people who voted to stay in the EU going to say if Brexit pays off?" This thread was really very civilized until the mob from the Politics thread got involved. That includes me, so I apologise 
I am going to define Brexit "pays-off" as a significant majority (gar more than 52%) being more content and more prosperous than they were before. I'm not going to get you to explain to me how and why because nobody knows.
I think this is highly unlikely. If it does, I'll think "thank f**k for that" and get on with my life.
Will I apologise for voting remain and continuing to try to stay in the EU? No. Given the information available I think that leaving is a mistake. A big mistake.
If the time horizon for a pay-off is going to be up to 50 years and the only guarantee is that there will be "some disruption" in the intervening decades then I'd rather have passed.
Could I ask, does the information that you now have make you feel that you weren't quite told the whole truth? | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble " Out of interest, can I ask why you think the change in these industries was the fault if the EU and not the UK? Also, what proportion of EU laws do you think that the UK disagrees with? What would you say if things do turn out badly as a consequence of your vote? If remain was wrong the country is fine. If leave was wrong the country is far from fine. | |||
"And which EU laws specific laws are detrimental to the U.K.? The ones that stop us deporting terrorists to countrys with the death penalty instead the taxpayer pays " Did you know that the European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU? | |||
"How do you define "pays off"? Economy/GDP increases, unemployment drops, sterling becomes strong etc (As a disclaimer, I would like to point out I'm not an economics expert)" Well, in two years we seem to have gone from being promised "£350m a week for the NHS" to the Government promising today there will be "adequate food" on the shelves. Going splendidly so far, don't you think? | |||
"How do you define "pays off"? Economy/GDP increases, unemployment drops, sterling becomes strong etc (As a disclaimer, I would like to point out I'm not an economics expert) Well, in two years we seem to have gone from being promised "£350m a week for the NHS" to the Government promising today there will be "adequate food" on the shelves. Going splendidly so far, don't you think?" We're such winners (facepalm) | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. " Of course though, if you have your own Burger joint, you can control which suppliers you use, the quality of your products, negotiate on price, control the way your place looks and 'feels', your product range, your policies and procedures, and not pay a franchising contribution to anyone. Independent coffee shops, restaurants, bars, micro-breweries, non-chain, non-franchise retailing of all sorts, millions of self-employed people, even independent councillors and politicians, all wouldn't be doing what they're doing if the only way to succeed was by your 'Maccy D' theory. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. Of course though, if you have your own Burger joint, you can control which suppliers you use, the quality of your products, negotiate on price, control the way your place looks and 'feels', your product range, your policies and procedures, and not pay a franchising contribution to anyone. Independent coffee shops, restaurants, bars, micro-breweries, non-chain, non-franchise retailing of all sorts, millions of self-employed people, even independent councillors and politicians, all wouldn't be doing what they're doing if the only way to succeed was by your 'Maccy D' theory." This is quite a useful analogy and shows there is a trade off to be made. Whether this is for the best is where the debate lies. As is what we mean by best. It also helps me explain one of my *economic* reasons for falling on the remain side. The independent could be a roaring success. It could be a failure. While Maccy Ds fortunes are not guaranteed, there’s a bit more certainty around them. I will admit I’m on the risk adverse side and take this more certain outcome against the wider range of the boutique. The fall out of it going wrong is, IMO, a lot more destructive than any additional upside from beating McDonalds. | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. Of course though, if you have your own Burger joint, you can control which suppliers you use, the quality of your products, negotiate on price, control the way your place looks and 'feels', your product range, your policies and procedures, and not pay a franchising contribution to anyone. Independent coffee shops, restaurants, bars, micro-breweries, non-chain, non-franchise retailing of all sorts, millions of self-employed people, even independent councillors and politicians, all wouldn't be doing what they're doing if the only way to succeed was by your 'Maccy D' theory." The point was about negotiating deals not about sales and marketing wasn't it? Continuing to wring out this metaphor, what is our unique selling point then? What do we provide that no other country can? What makes us worth the extra cost? | |||
"As clarification, I voted leave, as did the majority of Doncaster. I didn't vote leave because of anything to do with immigration or "those pesky Muslims" I voted leave because while we've been in the EU, coal industry has gone, steel industry is on its last legs, we had high unemployment (which I believe is dropping) construction is low, GDP is low, we've had a double dip recession and we don't have a say in some of laws we brought it. Don't get me wrong, some laws do help people, but shouldn't the British government who we vote in decide on what laws we obide by? If all this happens while we're in the EU, wouldn't we be better off out? Like I said, I'm no expert on this subject, I'm always happy to be shown I'm wrong. And I admit my leave vote was a gamble So why do you think, for example, the coal industry will be revitalised as a result of leaving the E.U.? Coal is dirty and horrible. People aren’t about to want to go back to coal from their nice clean gas. Or the steel industry - do you think by leaving the E.U. the U.K. on its own will suddenly be able to compete with China? Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting us to be a economic power house once we leave, my thinking is, if everything is going downhill while we're in the EU, why stay? Do you not want to talk about coal anymore? Is everything going downhill? Think of trade in admittedly simplistic terms... Suppose you run an independent burger joint. Who do you think will be able to negotiate the lowest cost per burger from suppliers? You’re independent burger joint, or Maccy Ds? It’s not enough to say you think things are going downhill. You need to demonstrate tangible advantages to leaving. At the time of the vote, pretty much all the experts were saying we’d be worse off. Far too much of the leave stuff was based on lies and misinformation. That people who were totally misinformed got to decide the economic fate of the U.K. for decades to come is simply unbelievable, and it’s shameful that the architects of it all are now nowhere to be seen. Of course though, if you have your own Burger joint, you can control which suppliers you use, the quality of your products, negotiate on price, control the way your place looks and 'feels', your product range, your policies and procedures, and not pay a franchising contribution to anyone. Independent coffee shops, restaurants, bars, micro-breweries, non-chain, non-franchise retailing of all sorts, millions of self-employed people, even independent councillors and politicians, all wouldn't be doing what they're doing if the only way to succeed was by your 'Maccy D' theory. The point was about negotiating deals not about sales and marketing wasn't it? Continuing to wring out this metaphor, what is our unique selling point then? What do we provide that no other country can? What makes us worth the extra cost?" Well, continuing alo g the Maccy D line, to trade as Maccy D costs an upfront payment £30,000. You then have to have a minimum 25% cash deposit (not loaned to you), plus a loan for the rest...restaurants cost between £200,000 and £500,000. Then there are the monthly fees of between 19.5% and 27.5% of your turnover. So you could trade as a 'member' of Maccy D, selling exactly tge same thing at exactly the same price as all of the other members... Or you could use some of the savings you make to buy better quality ingredients, making a better quality product, offering something unique, a better dining experience, paying your staff a little more, offer better value, and still be successful. | |||
" Well, continuing alo g the Maccy D line, to trade as Maccy D costs an upfront payment £30,000. You then have to have a minimum 25% cash deposit (not loaned to you), plus a loan for the rest...restaurants cost between £200,000 and £500,000. Then there are the monthly fees of between 19.5% and 27.5% of your turnover. So you could trade as a 'member' of Maccy D, selling exactly tge same thing at exactly the same price as all of the other members... Or you could use some of the savings you make to buy better quality ingredients, making a better quality product, offering something unique, a better dining experience, paying your staff a little more, offer better value, and still be successful. " The metaphor is also helping show the different ways of thinking about brexit ... You talk about the costs of Mcdondalfd without the benefits. I get access to a larger audiance (brand awareness)!with minimal additional cost (advertising). So while I may be giving away turnover I may have a larger turnover to start with You represent some costs with McDonalds (eg fitting) without recognising I have the same costs if I go it alone. It’s not a cost of being in a franchise but but big in business. Whatsomore I may get a better deal on the like for like. I may also get some intangible benefit (eg support) You paint a rosey picture about going it alone without describing any risks. How many independent burger joints survive past three years? While paying more is admirable what happens if it’s not as big a success as the business plan suggests. How robust is my business to external factors ? What happens if McDonalds signs a deal with my suppliers so I get under cut ? Now, I’m not saying either route is better or worse per se. Just in order to decide a well rounded analysis is needed. However many will start with an answer and position arguments around this. (And this is before we start to allow for the fact we are already signed up as a McDonald’s francishe. And share an open kitchen with another franchise) | |||
"Well, continuing alo g the Maccy D line, to trade as Maccy D costs an upfront payment £30,000. You then have to have a minimum 25% cash deposit (not loaned to you), plus a loan for the rest...restaurants cost between £200,000 and £500,000. Then there are the monthly fees of between 19.5% and 27.5% of your turnover. So you could trade as a 'member' of Maccy D, selling exactly tge same thing at exactly the same price as all of the other members... Or you could use some of the savings you make to buy better quality ingredients, making a better quality product, offering something unique, a better dining experience, paying your staff a little more, offer better value, and still be successful. The metaphor is also helping show the different ways of thinking about brexit ... You talk about the costs of Mcdondalfd without the benefits. I get access to a larger audiance (brand awareness)!with minimal additional cost (advertising). So while I may be giving away turnover I may have a larger turnover to start with You represent some costs with McDonalds (eg fitting) without recognising I have the same costs if I go it alone. It’s not a cost of being in a franchise but but big in business. Whatsomore I may get a better deal on the like for like. I may also get some intangible benefit (eg support) You paint a rosey picture about going it alone without describing any risks. How many independent burger joints survive past three years? While paying more is admirable what happens if it’s not as big a success as the business plan suggests. How robust is my business to external factors ? What happens if McDonalds signs a deal with my suppliers so I get under cut ? Now, I’m not saying either route is better or worse per se. Just in order to decide a well rounded analysis is needed. However many will start with an answer and position arguments around this. (And this is before we start to allow for the fact we are already signed up as a McDonald’s francishe. And share an open kitchen with another franchise) " There should never have been a referendum on something with a right or wrong answer. It'd be like the boss of the McD outlet asking all their employees to vote on whether they should remain part of that franchise or not. The boss and the accountant know all the data about which would be the best route for the business to take. But their voice only accounts for 2 votes whilst the team of burger flippers accounts for 10
It was a bloody stupid idea. If it doesn't work out I sincerely hope the British public don't blame the EU as the brexiteers claim. I hope they blame Cameron and May and the Tories. I hope the Tory party will become unelectable for at least a generation, if not more  | |||
" There should never have been a referendum on something with a right or wrong answer. It'd be like the boss of the McD outlet asking all their employees to vote on whether they should remain part of that franchise or not. The boss and the accountant know all the data about which would be the best route for the business to take. But their voice only accounts for 2 votes whilst the team of burger flippers accounts for 10
It was a bloody stupid idea. If it doesn't work out I sincerely hope the British public don't blame the EU as the brexiteers claim. I hope they blame Cameron and May and the Tories. I hope the Tory party will become unelectable for at least a generation, if not more "Agreed, "democracy" and media are making a mockery of common sense. | |||
" Well, continuing alo g the Maccy D line, to trade as Maccy D costs an upfront payment £30,000. You then have to have a minimum 25% cash deposit (not loaned to you), plus a loan for the rest...restaurants cost between £200,000 and £500,000. Then there are the monthly fees of between 19.5% and 27.5% of your turnover. So you could trade as a 'member' of Maccy D, selling exactly tge same thing at exactly the same price as all of the other members... Or you could use some of the savings you make to buy better quality ingredients, making a better quality product, offering something unique, a better dining experience, paying your staff a little more, offer better value, and still be successful. The metaphor is also helping show the different ways of thinking about brexit ... You talk about the costs of Mcdondalfd without the benefits. I get access to a larger audiance (brand awareness)!with minimal additional cost (advertising). So while I may be giving away turnover I may have a larger turnover to start with You represent some costs with McDonalds (eg fitting) without recognising I have the same costs if I go it alone. It’s not a cost of being in a franchise but but big in business. Whatsomore I may get a better deal on the like for like. I may also get some intangible benefit (eg support) You paint a rosey picture about going it alone without describing any risks. How many independent burger joints survive past three years? While paying more is admirable what happens if it’s not as big a success as the business plan suggests. How robust is my business to external factors ? What happens if McDonalds signs a deal with my suppliers so I get under cut ? Now, I’m not saying either route is better or worse per se. Just in order to decide a well rounded analysis is needed. However many will start with an answer and position arguments around this. (And this is before we start to allow for the fact we are already signed up as a McDonald’s francishe. And share an open kitchen with another franchise) " And how about the risks involved with being part of Maccy D's? What if they suddenly decide to raise their franchise fee? Change their colour schemes? (They're actually doing this, and the franchisees are having to pay). What if there is a supply problem (like KFC for example), or one restaurant has a food poisoning issue, whereby all Maccy D's are tarred with the same brush? If you want to point out the risks with independent trading, then point out the risks with franchising. But as with everything, it may be for some, but not for others. With an element of risk comes the opportunity for reward. Some people enjoy the challenge of change, seeing opportunities and rewards, others a risk averse, and woukd rather remain in tgeir comfort zone. Where would Richard Branson be if he'd thought "it's not worth the risk, I'll go and work for Woolworths", or Tim Martin if he'd thought 'nah, too risky, I'll work for Whitbreads" Or Theo Pathitis if he'd thought he'd be better off working in W.H.Smiths rather than starting Rymans? No Virgin, No Weatherspoons, No cheaper stationery. | |||
" There should never have been a referendum on something with a right or wrong answer. It'd be like the boss of the McD outlet asking all their employees to vote on whether they should remain part of that franchise or not. The boss and the accountant know all the data about which would be the best route for the business to take. But their voice only accounts for 2 votes whilst the team of burger flippers accounts for 10
It was a bloody stupid idea. If it doesn't work out I sincerely hope the British public don't blame the EU as the brexiteers claim. I hope they blame Cameron and May and the Tories. I hope the Tory party will become unelectable for at least a generation, if not more
Agreed, "democracy" and media are making a mockery of common sense. "Sorry but didn't the globalist liberal establishment of which the EU is very much a part, make a mockery of common sense back in 2008 when financial markets crashed. Didn't the EU make a mockery of common sense when they failed to deal with, and to this day are still failing to deal with the migration crisis in Europe. Common sense seemed to be in very short supply in the global establishment and in bodies like the EU long before Brexit happened. | |||
" There should never have been a referendum on something with a right or wrong answer. It'd be like the boss of the McD outlet asking all their employees to vote on whether they should remain part of that franchise or not. The boss and the accountant know all the data about which would be the best route for the business to take. But their voice only accounts for 2 votes whilst the team of burger flippers accounts for 10
It was a bloody stupid idea. If it doesn't work out I sincerely hope the British public don't blame the EU as the brexiteers claim. I hope they blame Cameron and May and the Tories. I hope the Tory party will become unelectable for at least a generation, if not more
Agreed, "democracy" and media are making a mockery of common sense.
Sorry but didn't the globalist liberal establishment of which the EU is very much a part, make a mockery of common sense back in 2008 when financial markets crashed. Didn't the EU make a mockery of common sense when they failed to deal with, and to this day are still failing to deal with the migration crisis in Europe. Common sense seemed to be in very short supply in the global establishment and in bodies like the EU long before Brexit happened. "I seem to recall the UK was particularly unco-operative when it came to the refugee crisis. The same UK that sat at the EU decision table and made decisions. So if the EU appeared moribund, I'd ask the members why that was. So when you brand the EU a failure or lacking in common sense, what you are branding a failure and lacking in common sense is 28 countries that include the UK. Of course, the mistakes in future will be our mistakes, not ones shared with Johnny Foreigner and that'll be so much better. A red, white and blue screw-up is much better than an EU screw-up because, well, it was our clowns who screwed up. | |||
