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Have Remain leaders or supporters done anything wrong?
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
I'm interested to know if Remain supporters can provide any incidences of leave leaders or supporters making any mistakes or exaggerated claims or clear lies?
I would ask that leave supporters do not make their own suggestions. Try just to listen. I'd ask both sides to also try not to rise to provocation or attempts to sideline the thread.
My intention is to try to understand what Remain supporters feel is or is not realistic about the expectations raised by Brexit.
I will start a parallel thread for the opposite. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
So, to start this one off:
The use of a fear campaign with exaggerated claims of economic Armageddon marginalised the very real risks of leaving the EU.
There was no emotional appeal in the Remain campaign except to economic fear.
The intervention of Barack Obama was mis-timed and ill-judged.
Alternatives to existing EU terms were not sufficiently explored, particularly on immigration.
The campaign, and it's supporters, were complacent in their expectation of winning the argument and didn't try hard enough. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed."
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets"
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
I find it very annoying that the Labour party is still using nonsense phrases such as "access to the single market". But it's hard to know if Labour as a whole is leading Remain. The PLP is mainly pro EU, the party membership is split, and the leader is basically pro Leave, but is pretty quiet on the issue. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Yes they are not interested in the best deal for the UK but would rather things went wrong to try to prove a point.They do not care if they damage the lives of there families,just trying to prove a non relevant point.
We are leaving now work to get the best deal for Britain,why hurt yourself? |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yes they are not interested in the best deal for the UK but would rather things went wrong to try to prove a point.They do not care if they damage the lives of there families,just trying to prove a non relevant point.
We are leaving now work to get the best deal for Britain,why hurt yourself?"
Please, it would at least be polite to read the initial post and make some effort to follow the request. The point of the thread is to not criticise others but take a look at your own views. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
i blame labour and especially corbyn for what has happened... when the leader of the opposition basically goes into "radio silence" whilst there biggest decisions of our lifetime is going on around him, then for me that is basically an abdication of responsibility.....
they basically let the leave side set the narrative... hope over realism
the reason why i think the no side won the scottish referendum was that they yes side made them actually answer the awkward "real" questions and not let them dine on hope....
they should have turned that thing on the side of the bus into such a poisioned chalace they wouldn't have repeated it ever... and yet they still do! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the George Osbourne introduction to the trrasury report was too one sided and designed for headlines.
In hindsight I think they attacked emotive areas with too much logic. Eg people didn’t care about gross or net but understand large numbers.
They also miss judged how to present arguments. (An interesting perspective is they approached This like a conservative election and failed to understand those they needed to convince fell across different demographics than they used to)
I think there approach was too one track. Leave benefited from multiple campaigns. I think there would have been huge benefit in “this is gonna be hugely difficult to unpick, so will be costly”’realism approach from someone, as I think this is where many people are starting to turn (based on small samples).
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Yes they are not interested in the best deal for the UK but would rather things went wrong to try to prove a point.They do not care if they damage the lives of there families,just trying to prove a non relevant point.
We are leaving now work to get the best deal for Britain,why hurt yourself?
Please, it would at least be polite to read the initial post and make some effort to follow the request. The point of the thread is to not criticise others but take a look at your own views."
They are my own views,because you do not like them does not mean I should not answer as I see fit,this forum is for all |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Yes they are not interested in the best deal for the UK but would rather things went wrong to try to prove a point.They do not care if they damage the lives of there families,just trying to prove a non relevant point.
We are leaving now work to get the best deal for Britain,why hurt yourself?
Please, it would at least be polite to read the initial post and make some effort to follow the request. The point of the thread is to not criticise others but take a look at your own views.They are my own views,because you do not like them does not mean I should not answer as I see fit,this forum is for all"
I have made a polite request. If you choose to ignore it, that says more about you than about me.
Have a good day. |
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"i blame labour and especially corbyn for what has happened... when the leader of the opposition basically goes into "radio silence" whilst there biggest decisions of our lifetime is going on around him, then for me that is basically an abdication of responsibility.....
they basically let the leave side set the narrative... hope over realism
the reason why i think the no side won the scottish referendum was that they yes side made them actually answer the awkward "real" questions and not let them dine on hope....
they should have turned that thing on the side of the bus into such a poisioned chalace they wouldn't have repeated it ever... and yet they still do!"
Do you realise he (JC) made the most appearances of any of the remain leader? That this has not been covered by the media speaks volumes about how real anti Corbyn anti Labour media bias is.
The fact is yes the pro EU camp has not been led well and the origins of its failure can be traced right back like so many things to Thatcher and the loathsome policies she introduced. 40 years on from her standing in Downing St. St. Francis's Prayer:
"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope", we see the results of her policies every day and they are the polar opposite of what she claimed she would bring. But the pro Europe camp have never been willing to confront the fact that the EU is not to blame for the UK's decline, Tory policy is! |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"i blame labour and especially corbyn for what has happened... when the leader of the opposition basically goes into "radio silence" whilst there biggest decisions of our lifetime is going on around him, then for me that is basically an abdication of responsibility.....
they basically let the leave side set the narrative... hope over realism
the reason why i think the no side won the scottish referendum was that they yes side made them actually answer the awkward "real" questions and not let them dine on hope....
they should have turned that thing on the side of the bus into such a poisioned chalace they wouldn't have repeated it ever... and yet they still do!
Do you realise he (JC) made the most appearances of any of the remain leader? That this has not been covered by the media speaks volumes about how real anti Corbyn anti Labour media bias is.
The fact is yes the pro EU camp has not been led well and the origins of its failure can be traced right back like so many things to Thatcher and the loathsome policies she introduced. 40 years on from her standing in Downing St. St. Francis's Prayer:
"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope", we see the results of her policies every day and they are the polar opposite of what she claimed she would bring. But the pro Europe camp have never been willing to confront the fact that the EU is not to blame for the UK's decline, Tory policy is!"
JC making lots of appearances and giving half-hearted support to remain and continuing to maintain an ambiguous position is not exactly a badge of honour.
Regardless, that's not really answered the question.
What have remainers got wrong and what mistakes are they still making? |
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"JC making lots of appearances and giving half-hearted support to remain and continuing to maintain an ambiguous position is not exactly a badge of honour.
Regardless, that's not really answered the question.
What have remainers got wrong and what mistakes are they still making?"
Ah...
I understand, the idea hat a politician would give nuanced support and honest answers to questions is not what you require. Much better to have the pig fucker and Gideon telling everyone that if they don't do what they say and vote remain they will trigger Article 50 the following day and cause an economic crash. (Of course they didn't and as a result cut the ground out from under the remain camp and bolstered the leave camp.) Or maybe you prefer the style of our strong and stable leader who was accused of being lilly livered and sitting on the fence and nicknamed the submarine because of how she was never seen.
Personally I like my politicians to be level headed and balanced. But then not so long ago nearly all the media was calling JC a traitor because he was refusing to back bombing Syria and baying for the deployment of boots on the ground over a chemical attack that now seems to have been nothing more than a disinformation operation designed to further involve us in that conflict thus extending it. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick and totally misunderstood what happened? Am I the delusional one? Or are you the one who has been conditioned over the last 35/30 years, a bit like Pavlov's dogs? |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"JC making lots of appearances and giving half-hearted support to remain and continuing to maintain an ambiguous position is not exactly a badge of honour.
Regardless, that's not really answered the question.
What have remainers got wrong and what mistakes are they still making?
Ah...
I understand, the idea hat a politician would give nuanced support and honest answers to questions is not what you require. Much better to have the pig fucker and Gideon telling everyone that if they don't do what they say and vote remain they will trigger Article 50 the following day and cause an economic crash. (Of course they didn't and as a result cut the ground out from under the remain camp and bolstered the leave camp.) Or maybe you prefer the style of our strong and stable leader who was accused of being lilly livered and sitting on the fence and nicknamed the submarine because of how she was never seen.
Personally I like my politicians to be level headed and balanced. But then not so long ago nearly all the media was calling JC a traitor because he was refusing to back bombing Syria and baying for the deployment of boots on the ground over a chemical attack that now seems to have been nothing more than a disinformation operation designed to further involve us in that conflict thus extending it. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick and totally misunderstood what happened? Am I the delusional one? Or are you the one who has been conditioned over the last 35/30 years, a bit like Pavlov's dogs?"
Your first paragraph was what I was after, and I agree.
The second half not so relevant and I don't have the information to take a view.
I'm not making any judgement about you and as for what others think about me, so what? I'm just trying to form a view.
Facts are relatively easy to get, even if some choose to ignore them or reinterpret them. Emotional responses and opinion are less clear. |
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"i blame labour and especially corbyn for what has happened... when the leader of the opposition basically goes into "radio silence" whilst there biggest decisions of our lifetime is going on around him, then for me that is basically an abdication of responsibility.....
they basically let the leave side set the narrative... hope over realism
the reason why i think the no side won the scottish referendum was that they yes side made them actually answer the awkward "real" questions and not let them dine on hope....
they should have turned that thing on the side of the bus into such a poisioned chalace they wouldn't have repeated it ever... and yet they still do!"
David Davis led the Labour remain campaign not Corbyn.
The decision to leave or remain was a personal one, not a party political one. |
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I think that the remain camp had pretty awful campaigners and campaign. The whole referendum programme was farcical, partly due to the complexity of the subject as well as the timeframe to achieve it.
As it was such a complex, overwhelming subject for many, it's clear that more data would confuse or repel people, whereas emotional engagement would attract and engage them. Leave did engage people emotionally so very much better.
No one had plans - which is intolerable. Even now, years later, the government can't fully decide what it wants - which should have been a milestone achieved long ago on such a plan.
It was the governments decision to hold the referendum and it's their responsibility to implement brexit. It's right that they are judged by it. Opposition parties contribute by debate and input to new legislative changes - it's a double edged sword, of being criticized if they'd appeared very obstructive, or if some people thought that they should have been. The government has done very well at obstructing itself, with internal leave and remain squabbles. What's obviousnow is that the realities of what the governments concluded brexit is different to that proposed some years ago and closer to remain teams projection.
A sign of our times is that some people are wrongly led to believe that very complex situations and problems have simple answers, which invariably are not comprehensive solution. The remain team were on a losing streak by trying to explain much of the complexity in poor style, when the demand was unrealistically set for facile, deluded simplicity. Leave could evoke a simplocity and did so, largely focusing on a falsehood of simple departure.
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"I think that the remain camp had pretty awful campaigners and campaign. The whole referendum programme was farcical, partly due to the complexity of the subject as well as the timeframe to achieve it.
As it was such a complex, overwhelming subject for many, it's clear that more data would confuse or repel people, whereas emotional engagement would attract and engage them. Leave did engage people emotionally so very much better.
No one had plans - which is intolerable. Even now, years later, the government can't fully decide what it wants - which should have been a milestone achieved long ago on such a plan.
It was the governments decision to hold the referendum and it's their responsibility to implement brexit. It's right that they are judged by it. Opposition parties contribute by debate and input to new legislative changes - it's a double edged sword, of being criticized if they'd appeared very obstructive, or if some people thought that they should have been. The government has done very well at obstructing itself, with internal leave and remain squabbles. What's obviousnow is that the realities of what the governments concluded brexit is different to that proposed some years ago and closer to remain teams projection.
A sign of our times is that some people are wrongly led to believe that very complex situations and problems have simple answers, which invariably are not comprehensive solution. The remain team were on a losing streak by trying to explain much of the complexity in poor style, when the demand was unrealistically set for facile, deluded simplicity. Leave could evoke a simplocity and did so, largely focusing on a falsehood of simple departure.
"
Sophie
How do you counter 30 plus years of being told the EU won't let you have bendy bananas, feet and inches and pounds and ounces in 8 or 10 weeks? |
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By *rozacMan
over a year ago
london |
Leave Crowd seems to be made up of racists, bigots, colonialists or colonialist racist bigots.
Nigal Farage pulled fictional statistics out of his racist arsehole.
David Cameron set the whole thing in motion then fucking bailed. So, that was excellent.
I can't see who is benefiting out of this? Something about bendy bananas?
Wasn't it the tories who made us join the EU back in the day?
Why is Corbyn vilified for everything?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No they havent. I blame cameron on brexit, he was forced to go through with it lol."
I got it wrong there. I meant remainers had a good campaign they did warn of how it would go with the leavers fantasy plans that that they came up with, such as 350mil to the nhs, who really believe in that? Lol.
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Leave Crowd seems to be made up of racists, bigots, colonialists or colonialist racist bigots.
Nigal Farage pulled fictional statistics out of his racist arsehole.
David Cameron set the whole thing in motion then fucking bailed. So, that was excellent.
I can't see who is benefiting out of this? Something about bendy bananas?
Wasn't it the tories who made us join the EU back in the day?
Why is Corbyn vilified for everything?
"
This isn't the point of the thread.
What did you think remain has and continues to do wrong?
I would say one is generalisation about leave voters all being racist. |
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By *rozacMan
over a year ago
london |
"Leave Crowd seems to be made up of racists, bigots, colonialists or colonialist racist bigots.
Nigal Farage pulled fictional statistics out of his racist arsehole.
David Cameron set the whole thing in motion then fucking bailed. So, that was excellent.
I can't see who is benefiting out of this? Something about bendy bananas?
Wasn't it the tories who made us join the EU back in the day?
Why is Corbyn vilified for everything?
This isn't the point of the thread.
What did you think remain has and continues to do wrong?
I would say one is generalisation about leave voters all being racist."
Well it's a pretty shitty thread so far. Just you repeating that to anyone who contributes.
Go and read a newspaper or google the information yourself you wally
YAAAWWWWNN |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
The problem is you can only get through to the other side if they are prepared to actually listen, so whenever someone of the remain side quite rightly points out that there may be a negative... leave just trot out the “project fear” line and stick their heads further into the sand
You are going to have trouble turning project fear into project realism if the other side and their Brexit supporting newspapers are not prepared to be realistic or turn any realistic story of consequence into something sensational and blame the other side....
Every consequence is always an attack on them.... |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Leave Crowd seems to be made up of racists, bigots, colonialists or colonialist racist bigots.
Nigal Farage pulled fictional statistics out of his racist arsehole.
David Cameron set the whole thing in motion then fucking bailed. So, that was excellent.
I can't see who is benefiting out of this? Something about bendy bananas?
Wasn't it the tories who made us join the EU back in the day?
Why is Corbyn vilified for everything?
This isn't the point of the thread.
What did you think remain has and continues to do wrong?
I would say one is generalisation about leave voters all being racist.
Well it's a pretty shitty thread so far. Just you repeating that to anyone who contributes.
Go and read a newspaper or google the information yourself you wally
YAAAWWWWNN"
The point is not to go and compile a list for an essay.
The point is for you to think about what you believe was and is wrong with the remain campaign, it's leadership and on-going attitudes.
If 52% have a different opinion to you, how will the country function again until we can come to a agreement of some sort?
Do yiu really think that all leavers are truly racist? How would you react to a similar insult? |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"The problem is you can only get through to the other side if they are prepared to actually listen, so whenever someone of the remain side quite rightly points out that there may be a negative... leave just trot out the “project fear” line and stick their heads further into the sand
You are going to have trouble turning project fear into project realism if the other side and their Brexit supporting newspapers are not prepared to be realistic or turn any realistic story of consequence into something sensational and blame the other side....
Every consequence is always an attack on them...."
Understood.
You can interpret news and statistics to suit your own perspective, often subconsciously. However, you know when you are actively avoiding looking at the weakness in your point of view or the strengths in the opposing one.
The parallel thread to this about leaving is almost empty.
This thread does demonstrate that some Remainers can be equally intransigent in their views although there appears to be somewhat more openness to introspection.
You can rarely convince someone that they might not have got something completely right. They have to convince themselves. |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Who are these remain leaders of whom you speak? Cameron and Straw and Osborne?!"
Quite. The same for Leave. The leaders of what organisation? What are they held accountable for and to whom? What's the penalty to them for failure?
In this context it can only be those most publicly visible that can be deemed "leaders".
Cameron and Osborne are out of power so that is a penalty of some sort.
What about the leavers? What's success? What's failure? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened? "
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
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"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened?
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
"
And of course there is also the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who warned during the EU referendum campaign in 2016 that 'the Euro (and by association the EU) was doomed to failure".
I agree with your summary, and it is inevitable that the Euro as a currency will crumble, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened?
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
And of course there is also the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who warned during the EU referendum campaign in 2016 that 'the Euro (and by association the EU) was doomed to failure".
I agree with your summary, and it is inevitable that the Euro as a currency will crumble, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. "
Thank you - If the other parties would care to look at the Financial Future Risk Premiums being asked on the state debts of:
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, Malta and Greece
it would be seen, that since 2008 these premiums are at their highest(For some countries even above the levels of 2008).
In September we have a "hot" month, as specific countries are searching to receive funding through the sale of state debt to the financial world markets (Italy/Spain and Greece); if the risk rates are too high, then these fiscal requirements for these countries will hit a buffer - meaning in simple terms "They are bust, kaput,aus und am Ende".
Where will Europe then turn to ? IMF has no more money to support; the European Central Bank can not print even more money and the USA will not under Pres. Trump help out Europe. (China has its' own internal "Black Hole Debt")
Also to the point, that Boris Johnson wrote about bendy bananas is incorrect.
It was first the Sun, Daily Mail and Mirrot in 1994 (The Daily Mail ran the article again in 1998).
Johnson never wrote for these newspapers and there is an unlaying correct fact in the EU commission regulation (EC) 2257/94, which dictates that all bananas must be free from “abnormal curvature" (This regulation 2257/94 has been corrected in 2008 and again 2011)
But curved bananas are not and never have been banned: bananas of the lower classes are permitted “defects of shape”.
These forums would be a lot nicer and better, if people would sit down and do their own research before "printing" something. A tip read the Neue Zurcher Zeitung (nzz . ch) they are neutral and represent neither left nor right, but present a honest opinion.
 |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened?
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
And of course there is also the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who warned during the EU referendum campaign in 2016 that 'the Euro (and by association the EU) was doomed to failure".
I agree with your summary, and it is inevitable that the Euro as a currency will crumble, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. "
Any opportunity to try and side-track a thread eh?
You just can't help yourself and you just can't bring yourself to answer a more pertinent question about weakness in the leave argument in the parallel thread  |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened?
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
And of course there is also the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who warned during the EU referendum campaign in 2016 that 'the Euro (and by association the EU) was doomed to failure".
I agree with your summary, and it is inevitable that the Euro as a currency will crumble, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'.
Thank you - If the other parties would care to look at the Financial Future Risk Premiums being asked on the state debts of:
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, Malta and Greece
it would be seen, that since 2008 these premiums are at their highest(For some countries even above the levels of 2008).
In September we have a "hot" month, as specific countries are searching to receive funding through the sale of state debt to the financial world markets (Italy/Spain and Greece); if the risk rates are too high, then these fiscal requirements for these countries will hit a buffer - meaning in simple terms "They are bust, kaput,aus und am Ende".
Where will Europe then turn to ? IMF has no more money to support; the European Central Bank can not print even more money and the USA will not under Pres. Trump help out Europe. (China has its' own internal "Black Hole Debt")
Also to the point, that Boris Johnson wrote about bendy bananas is incorrect.
It was first the Sun, Daily Mail and Mirrot in 1994 (The Daily Mail ran the article again in 1998).
Johnson never wrote for these newspapers and there is an unlaying correct fact in the EU commission regulation (EC) 2257/94, which dictates that all bananas must be free from “abnormal curvature" (This regulation 2257/94 has been corrected in 2008 and again 2011)
But curved bananas are not and never have been banned: bananas of the lower classes are permitted “defects of shape”.
These forums would be a lot nicer and better, if people would sit down and do their own research before "printing" something. A tip read the Neue Zurcher Zeitung (nzz . ch) they are neutral and represent neither left nor right, but present a honest opinion.
"
Why are you posting all of this in this thread? How is it pertinent?
Did you cote to remain? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened?
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
And of course there is also the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who warned during the EU referendum campaign in 2016 that 'the Euro (and by association the EU) was doomed to failure".
I agree with your summary, and it is inevitable that the Euro as a currency will crumble, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'.
Thank you - If the other parties would care to look at the Financial Future Risk Premiums being asked on the state debts of:
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, Malta and Greece
it would be seen, that since 2008 these premiums are at their highest(For some countries even above the levels of 2008).
In September we have a "hot" month, as specific countries are searching to receive funding through the sale of state debt to the financial world markets (Italy/Spain and Greece); if the risk rates are too high, then these fiscal requirements for these countries will hit a buffer - meaning in simple terms "They are bust, kaput,aus und am Ende".
Where will Europe then turn to ? IMF has no more money to support; the European Central Bank can not print even more money and the USA will not under Pres. Trump help out Europe. (China has its' own internal "Black Hole Debt")
Also to the point, that Boris Johnson wrote about bendy bananas is incorrect.
It was first the Sun, Daily Mail and Mirrot in 1994 (The Daily Mail ran the article again in 1998).
Johnson never wrote for these newspapers and there is an unlaying correct fact in the EU commission regulation (EC) 2257/94, which dictates that all bananas must be free from “abnormal curvature" (This regulation 2257/94 has been corrected in 2008 and again 2011)
But curved bananas are not and never have been banned: bananas of the lower classes are permitted “defects of shape”.
These forums would be a lot nicer and better, if people would sit down and do their own research before "printing" something. A tip read the Neue Zurcher Zeitung (nzz . ch) they are neutral and represent neither left nor right, but present a honest opinion.
"
 Thank you for the information, much appreciated and I'll certainly check it out.   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"...and the non-economic benefits of EU membership were only superficially discussed.
(m) answering
All these threads about "leave" / "remain" will be soon worthless.
Since now 2007 I have been writing in a specific forum of the Bank for International Settlement (short BIZ) Basle that the Euro will crash / burn.
Until now the IMF was supporting this currency; however due to the member states of the IMF this has been changed and the coming new "2008", which will be even worse, will see the insurance for Euro government bonds rocket.
This will result into a devaluation of the Euro by 65-89% with the final result a break up of the EU, as the stronger states (Germany/Holland etc) will walk away.
No one either in "Remain or Leave" have ever spoken of the currency risk the Euro represents; the UK is hanging in the EZB until 2019 with the same legal obligations as the Euro countries
After 2019 March it is a free for all exit and write off of the Euro 40 billion worth of shares held in the EZB by the UK.
Now all Remainers and Leavers think of that one... as it will not only hurt Europe, but 99% of the world markets
And in the 11 years you have been saying that, has it happened?
What has happened is that the developing countries in the IMF have revolted against the leadership by France / Europe and refuse to now further support the Euro.
That has happened and also the ex Top IMF Economist (Olivier Blanchard) has also published his views, that the Euro is the main reaosn for the down fall of the EU and is only pending.
The fiscal systems are slow, but when there is a valid point it goes very quickly (see Lehman Bros the decision by the Fed required 1 weekend) - My question back to yourself is simple "40 years half in and half out of the EU" and now? Another 40 years leaving the EU ?
And of course there is also the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King who warned during the EU referendum campaign in 2016 that 'the Euro (and by association the EU) was doomed to failure".
I agree with your summary, and it is inevitable that the Euro as a currency will crumble, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when'.
Thank you - If the other parties would care to look at the Financial Future Risk Premiums being asked on the state debts of:
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, Malta and Greece
it would be seen, that since 2008 these premiums are at their highest(For some countries even above the levels of 2008).
In September we have a "hot" month, as specific countries are searching to receive funding through the sale of state debt to the financial world markets (Italy/Spain and Greece); if the risk rates are too high, then these fiscal requirements for these countries will hit a buffer - meaning in simple terms "They are bust, kaput,aus und am Ende".
Where will Europe then turn to ? IMF has no more money to support; the European Central Bank can not print even more money and the USA will not under Pres. Trump help out Europe. (China has its' own internal "Black Hole Debt")
Also to the point, that Boris Johnson wrote about bendy bananas is incorrect.
It was first the Sun, Daily Mail and Mirrot in 1994 (The Daily Mail ran the article again in 1998).
Johnson never wrote for these newspapers and there is an unlaying correct fact in the EU commission regulation (EC) 2257/94, which dictates that all bananas must be free from “abnormal curvature" (This regulation 2257/94 has been corrected in 2008 and again 2011)
But curved bananas are not and never have been banned: bananas of the lower classes are permitted “defects of shape”.
These forums would be a lot nicer and better, if people would sit down and do their own research before "printing" something. A tip read the Neue Zurcher Zeitung (nzz . ch) they are neutral and represent neither left nor right, but present a honest opinion.
Why are you posting all of this in this thread? How is it pertinent?
Did you cote to remain?"
I liked it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Remoaners are indeed pathetic, and in my opinion political pigmies. They have a right to their opinions, but their lies and scaremongering is boring and pointless now we are definitely leaving. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Remoaners are indeed pathetic, and in my opinion political pigmies. They have a right to their opinions, but their lies and scaremongering is boring and pointless now we are definitely leaving."
given your other posts I suspect this will come if Little suprise to many.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Remoaners are indeed pathetic, and in my opinion political pigmies. They have a right to their opinions, but their lies and scaremongering is boring and pointless now we are definitely leaving."
A classic example... any consequence is see as scaremongering!! any consequence will always be their fault and not our own...
whilst the "we will get everything and give up nothing" attitudes exist.... they are there own worst enermies.....
we are not going to go forward until people are both pragmatic and realistic....
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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"So, to start this one off:
The use of a fear campaign with exaggerated claims of economic Armageddon marginalised the very real risks of leaving the EU.
There was no emotional appeal in the Remain campaign except to economic fear.
The intervention of Barack Obama was mis-timed and ill-judged.
Alternatives to existing EU terms were not sufficiently explored, particularly on immigration.
The campaign, and it's supporters, were complacent in their expectation of winning the argument and didn't try hard enough."
Eh...we haven't left yet and business is still saying the same things they said before the vote. It will costs jobs and the poor will pay. |
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