FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Who benefits from tarrifs ?
Who benefits from tarrifs ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The talk of deficits and surpluses got me thinking about the mechanics of tariffs and who will win if we move to WTO from FTA
Winners
Governments. As they collect more revenue for a given level of trade.
Those under WTO atm as their products will look more competitive. (Assuming current FTA companies don’t absorb tarrifs completely)
Local providers. Assuming they exist. And have little exposure to FTA suppliers.
Public. As more tax rev reduces their burden.
Losers
Government. If price increases, demand decreases and so tax decreases. (Note: net position depends on elasticity of price)
Public. Who will pay more. And may see quality or choice reduce if FTA cos pull out of the market.
FTA cos, who will see demand decrease or profits reduce.
It all feels like very connected and in the balance. Any thoughts ?
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"The talk of deficits and surpluses got me thinking about the mechanics of tariffs and who will win if we move to WTO from FTA
Winners
Governments. As they collect more revenue for a given level of trade.
Those under WTO atm as their products will look more competitive. (Assuming current FTA companies don’t absorb tarrifs completely)
Local providers. Assuming they exist. And have little exposure to FTA suppliers.
Public. As more tax rev reduces their burden.
Losers
Government. If price increases, demand decreases and so tax decreases. (Note: net position depends on elasticity of price)
Public. Who will pay more. And may see quality or choice reduce if FTA cos pull out of the market.
FTA cos, who will see demand decrease or profits reduce.
It all feels like very connected and in the balance. Any thoughts ?
"
The idea of FTA is to make a transaction on goods. The idea of WTO (as I understand it) is to give a level playing field to all nations on all products. It was the Daily Politics that gave our current FTA with the EU; our tax on orange juice was 26% (or round about and can change as can be seen with the Trump effect with China and EU) but WTO was 10% (or there about). The winners are the consumers, the producers, eventually the governments as more taxes will flow into the economy through consumer spending.
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"I don’t know. But is the free movement of capital, goods, services and people necessary for tariff free trade? "
Is it necessary for the EU to give the UK any trade deal at all? No.
If the UK would like a trade deal then it has to agree with its trading partners. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So basically tariffs benefit no one. They are simply a protectionist policy which stifle education, R&D and innovation. Which is why the EU are falling behind the rest of the world. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So basically tariffs benefit no one. They are simply a protectionist policy which stifle education, R&D and innovation. Which is why the EU are falling behind the rest of the world. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say "
Why must you tell lies? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So basically tariffs benefit no one. They are simply a protectionist policy which stifle education, R&D and innovation. Which is why the EU are falling behind the rest of the world. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say "
This is only true if you still believe the Eu has no FTA other than its internal one.
But this is untrue.
Really we’re choosing to stifle (temporarily or permanently) by choosing to exit FTAs (say with Africa) and move to WTO.
And call me a cynic but I cant see Africa being top of our list to sort out new agreements.
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"So basically tariffs benefit no one. They are simply a protectionist policy which stifle education, R&D and innovation. Which is why the EU are falling behind the rest of the world. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say "
Youre clearly not the brightest penny.
The EU has free trade deals with 36 countries. And thats not including the 27 EU members. And its not including 56 other nations its currently working with on similar deals.
The USA has free trade deals with 20.
If Britain leaves the EU with no deal it will have ZERO.
So who's advocating protectionism again? Because the EU has more agreements made to lower or remove tariffs than any other country or economic area that I can see. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So basically tariffs benefit no one. They are simply a protectionist policy which stifle education, R&D and innovation. Which is why the EU are falling behind the rest of the world. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say
Youre clearly not the brightest penny.
The EU has free trade deals with 36 countries. And thats not including the 27 EU members. And its not including 56 other nations its currently working with on similar deals.
The USA has free trade deals with 20.
If Britain leaves the EU with no deal it will have ZERO.
So who's advocating protectionism again? Because the EU has more agreements made to lower or remove tariffs than any other country or economic area that I can see."
Load of bollocks. Last week wasn’t it something like 175 countries? So why are so many EU countries suffering? How much is spent on R&D in Europe and how much in say, China? |
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Tariffs have their place, they can protect domestic markets from dumping by hostile foreign powers and are the single most important tool in building a 'siege economy' (something we could really do with now). Which is arguably the best way to turn a failing a debt ridden economy round. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tariffs have their place, they can protect domestic markets from dumping by hostile foreign powers and are the single most important tool in building a 'siege economy' (something we could really do with now). Which is arguably the best way to turn a failing a debt ridden economy round."
If that was the case we would all still be riding round in horse and carts |
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"If that was the case we would all still be riding round in horse and carts"
Really?
So explain what sort of economy we had in the UK between 1939 and 1979 and maybe tell us what part it played in reducing our national debt from some 250% of GDP in 1945 to 44% in 1979? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If that was the case we would all still be riding round in horse and carts
Really?
So explain what sort of economy we had in the UK between 1939 and 1979 and maybe tell us what part it played in reducing our national debt from some 250% of GDP in 1945 to 44% in 1979?"
No. You explain it. And are you also trying to say then that the UK economy performed better before the consequences of joining the EU took hold? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Austerity followed by a financial crash?
Tick.
Rise in demagoguery?
Tick.
Rise in populism and scapegoating of minorities?
Tick?
Surge in migrant and refugee numbers?
Tick?
Return to protectionism?
Tick?
Sound familiar?
1927-1933 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Austerity followed by a financial crash?
Tick.
Rise in demagoguery?
Tick.
Rise in populism and scapegoating of minorities?
Tick?
Surge in migrant and refugee numbers?
Tick?
Return to protectionism?
Tick?
Sound familiar?
1927-1933"
Return to protectionism? The EU customs union is based on the German Zollverein model which was introduced 150 years ago, so nothing new there, it never went away, but it’s about time now that it did. And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore. "
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working? "
The common factor is inequality and a growing divide between the have's and have nots.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working?
The common factor is inequality and a growing divide between the have's and have nots.
"
Agreed. So the EU isn’t working is it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies? "
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working?
The common factor is inequality and a growing divide between the have's and have nots.
Agreed. So the EU isn’t working is it?"
It's working fine from everything I've seen. Evidence to the contrary.
My point about tweaking is small corrective changes.. rather than amputation and massive bleeding. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong."
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully. "
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working?
The common factor is inequality and a growing divide between the have's and have nots.
Agreed. So the EU isn’t working is it?
It's working fine from everything I've seen. Evidence to the contrary.
My point about tweaking is small corrective changes.. rather than amputation and massive bleeding. "
Really? How would it have worked out for you if the UK among others hadn’t bailed you out? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell."
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If the EU is so fond of free trade, then why doesn’t it just say, to the worlds 5th biggest economy, you can trade freely with us? "
deflection. You said the EU has no FTa outside itself. This is not true. Has anyone made the point the EU is fond of making trade agreements? Or just it has, when it has found an agreement which works for it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?"
Trumps is engaging in a trade war, for no reason other than he's a moron, who doesn't actually understand what he is doing.
Trying to create an equivalence here is a fantastic waste of time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working?
The common factor is inequality and a growing divide between the have's and have nots.
Agreed. So the EU isn’t working is it?
It's working fine from everything I've seen. Evidence to the contrary.
My point about tweaking is small corrective changes.. rather than amputation and massive bleeding.
Really? How would it have worked out for you if the UK among others hadn’t bailed you out? "
I am not Ireland.. but to entertain you...it probably would have been good. The banks should have been allowed to fail. |
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?"
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal."
I guess that ther poster to which you refer is a lot more open minded than you are ( otherwise you would not be making derogatory comments ).
The EU may benefit the many countries who are net beneficiaries , but in the case of the UK we are not only one of the largest contributors to EU funding , but are also paying more for food and clothes than we need to due to the trade protection policies of the EU.
In addition all the bureaucracy and red tape that the EU insists must be adhered to stifles innovation..
The EU is great for any country not prepared to pay its way in life .. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Which food stuffs are we going to get cheaper? Immediately I’m guessing none, if we’re moving to WTO.
Will the cost of borders be more than the cost of red tape? I couldn’t tell you this for sure? As it feels like it’s a one off compliance hit versus a cost per export.
What Eu law has got on the way of R&D. Closes I can get to is controlling state aid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal."
I’m thick? Well the poster above you says that you can’t do free trade deals without the free movement of money, goods, services and people. So who is thick, you or him or both? |
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal.
I’m thick? Well the poster above you says that you can’t do free trade deals without the free movement of money, goods, services and people. So who is thick, you or him or both?"
Why are you deflecting to some other poster?
The point we're talking about is that the EU is not protectionist and its dishonest right wing propaganda to say otherwise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal.
I’m thick? Well the poster above you says that you can’t do free trade deals without the free movement of money, goods, services and people. So who is thick, you or him or both?
Why are you deflecting to some other poster?
The point we're talking about is that the EU is not protectionist and its dishonest right wing propaganda to say otherwise."
For goodness sake, of course it’s protectionist! What do you think the whole point of it and the customs union are?? |
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal.
I’m thick? Well the poster above you says that you can’t do free trade deals without the free movement of money, goods, services and people. So who is thick, you or him or both?
Why are you deflecting to some other poster?
The point we're talking about is that the EU is not protectionist and its dishonest right wing propaganda to say otherwise.
For goodness sake, of course it’s protectionist! What do you think the whole point of it and the customs union are??"
Ill explain it nice and slow.
2 of the points of the EUs trade policy is to completely eliminate all barriers to trade within the EU. That is anti protectionist.
One of the other points is to give a united EU more leverage in negotiations when they negotiate trade deals with 3rd countries. Pursuing theae deals (and they have agreed more free trade deals than any other country or economic area on the planet as far as I can see) is also anti protectionist.
Now sit down because this may come as a shock to you. The right wing press have lied to you, and not even subtle little white lies. We're talking blatant easily disprovable pitch black lies.
You've been told the EU is protectionist and yet the EU has eliminated all trade barriers between the EU28 and has more free trade agreements with the rest of the world than anyone else. The facts completely oppose the nonsense youve been told.
Now are you going to admit that the EU is not protectionist or show some evidence that contradicts the facts as they are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal.
I’m thick? Well the poster above you says that you can’t do free trade deals without the free movement of money, goods, services and people. So who is thick, you or him or both?
Why are you deflecting to some other poster?
The point we're talking about is that the EU is not protectionist and its dishonest right wing propaganda to say otherwise.
For goodness sake, of course it’s protectionist! What do you think the whole point of it and the customs union are??
Ill explain it nice and slow.
2 of the points of the EUs trade policy is to completely eliminate all barriers to trade within the EU. That is anti protectionist.
One of the other points is to give a united EU more leverage in negotiations when they negotiate trade deals with 3rd countries. Pursuing theae deals (and they have agreed more free trade deals than any other country or economic area on the planet as far as I can see) is also anti protectionist.
Now sit down because this may come as a shock to you. The right wing press have lied to you, and not even subtle little white lies. We're talking blatant easily disprovable pitch black lies.
You've been told the EU is protectionist and yet the EU has eliminated all trade barriers between the EU28 and has more free trade agreements with the rest of the world than anyone else. The facts completely oppose the nonsense youve been told.
Now are you going to admit that the EU is not protectionist or show some evidence that contradicts the facts as they are."
I’m sorry but you are the one who has been duped or are confused. The free trade deals that the EU have done with non EU countries only cover certain goods. Is that not the case? And if it is the case then that means that there are protectionist measures in place does it not? It’s quite simple. I think you’re EU worship is clouding your brain |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You but....Do you tweak the system or fuck it up the ass until it can't walk anymore.
What does tweak the system mean?
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies?
You assume a lot of things. All of then wrong.
This is just playground stuff. I've seen you actually make some decent points when you stop acting like a schoolgirl bully.
Oh, how awful of me. How should I conduct myself to better suit you?
Please, do tell.
Maybe you could explain why EU protectionism is good and Trump protectionism is bad?
Exactly how slow are you? Are you one of theae people that needs things explained ten times before it penetrates your thick skull?
The EU has more free trade than any other country or economic area. They are the least protectionist organisation there is.
Only absolute idiots are stupid enough to believe the right wing press when they make up lies about the EU being protectionist despite the fact that NO ONE has more that is traded through FTAs than the EU.
And to answer your other question, when the UK makes a good enough offer to the EU they'll get a deal.
I’m thick? Well the poster above you says that you can’t do free trade deals without the free movement of money, goods, services and people. So who is thick, you or him or both?
Why are you deflecting to some other poster?
The point we're talking about is that the EU is not protectionist and its dishonest right wing propaganda to say otherwise.
For goodness sake, of course it’s protectionist! What do you think the whole point of it and the customs union are??
Ill explain it nice and slow.
2 of the points of the EUs trade policy is to completely eliminate all barriers to trade within the EU. That is anti protectionist.
One of the other points is to give a united EU more leverage in negotiations when they negotiate trade deals with 3rd countries. Pursuing theae deals (and they have agreed more free trade deals than any other country or economic area on the planet as far as I can see) is also anti protectionist.
Now sit down because this may come as a shock to you. The right wing press have lied to you, and not even subtle little white lies. We're talking blatant easily disprovable pitch black lies.
You've been told the EU is protectionist and yet the EU has eliminated all trade barriers between the EU28 and has more free trade agreements with the rest of the world than anyone else. The facts completely oppose the nonsense youve been told.
Now are you going to admit that the EU is not protectionist or show some evidence that contradicts the facts as they are."
https://youtu.be/DnW9ZQtI1_E
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"
Ill explain it nice and slow.
2 of the points of the EUs trade policy is to completely eliminate all barriers to trade within the EU. That is anti protectionist.
One of the other points is to give a united EU more leverage in negotiations when they negotiate trade deals with 3rd countries. Pursuing theae deals (and they have agreed more free trade deals than any other country or economic area on the planet as far as I can see) is also anti protectionist.
Now sit down because this may come as a shock to you. The right wing press have lied to you, and not even subtle little white lies. We're talking blatant easily disprovable pitch black lies.
You've been told the EU is protectionist and yet the EU has eliminated all trade barriers between the EU28 and has more free trade agreements with the rest of the world than anyone else. The facts completely oppose the nonsense youve been told.
Now are you going to admit that the EU is not protectionist or show some evidence that contradicts the facts as they are.
I’m sorry but you are the one who has been duped or are confused. The free trade deals that the EU have done with non EU countries only cover certain goods. Is that not the case? And if it is the case then that means that there are protectionist measures in place does it not? It’s quite simple. I think you’re EU worship is clouding your brain "
No, its not me confused, you cant seem to grasp the fundamentals of the situation.
There are standard tariffs the world has under WTO rules (the same WTO rules the hard brexiters are hoping for). The EU is lowering or removing these tariffs with the deals they do. And as they have more deals than anyone else they are the least protectionist country/economic area in the world.
More deals = less tariffs = less protectionism
Do you understand now? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Ill explain it nice and slow.
2 of the points of the EUs trade policy is to completely eliminate all barriers to trade within the EU. That is anti protectionist.
One of the other points is to give a united EU more leverage in negotiations when they negotiate trade deals with 3rd countries. Pursuing theae deals (and they have agreed more free trade deals than any other country or economic area on the planet as far as I can see) is also anti protectionist.
Now sit down because this may come as a shock to you. The right wing press have lied to you, and not even subtle little white lies. We're talking blatant easily disprovable pitch black lies.
You've been told the EU is protectionist and yet the EU has eliminated all trade barriers between the EU28 and has more free trade agreements with the rest of the world than anyone else. The facts completely oppose the nonsense youve been told.
Now are you going to admit that the EU is not protectionist or show some evidence that contradicts the facts as they are.
I’m sorry but you are the one who has been duped or are confused. The free trade deals that the EU have done with non EU countries only cover certain goods. Is that not the case? And if it is the case then that means that there are protectionist measures in place does it not? It’s quite simple. I think you’re EU worship is clouding your brain
No, its not me confused, you cant seem to grasp the fundamentals of the situation.
There are standard tariffs the world has under WTO rules (the same WTO rules the hard brexiters are hoping for). The EU is lowering or removing these tariffs with the deals they do. And as they have more deals than anyone else they are the least protectionist country/economic area in the world.
More deals = less tariffs = less protectionism
Do you understand now?"
Oh, so we are on to WTO tariffs now? So basically what you are saying is that the EU doesn’t have a free trade deal with anyone anywhere outside the EU. It doesn’t does it? Admit it |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Oh, so we are on to WTO tariffs now? So basically what you are saying is that the EU doesn’t have a free trade deal with anyone anywhere outside the EU. It doesn’t does it? Admit it "
it does ben.....
do you want the list of those that have been signed, those that are in the process of being ratified, or those that are in the process of being negoiated? because its a long list.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Oh, so we are on to WTO tariffs now? So basically what you are saying is that the EU doesn’t have a free trade deal with anyone anywhere outside the EU. It doesn’t does it? Admit it
it does ben.....
do you want the list of those that have been signed, those that are in the process of being ratified, or those that are in the process of being negoiated? because its a long list...."
I have seen these lists and there are exemptions on every one. If you can provide a list of the countries that trade with the EU on the same terms as EU countries trade with each other I would be grateful |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Oh, so we are on to WTO tariffs now? So basically what you are saying is that the EU doesn’t have a free trade deal with anyone anywhere outside the EU. It doesn’t does it? Admit it
it does ben.....
do you want the list of those that have been signed, those that are in the process of being ratified, or those that are in the process of being negoiated? because its a long list...."
the EU already has an fta, (if you want countries outside europe) with south korea as an example, and mexico, chile, egypt, isreal, morocco, lebannon, and jordan....
and south africa, and tunisia,
are currently in talks with japan, and canada, australia, new zealand, most of africa and asia as part of joint community FTA's...
and most of south america... (other than brazil or argentina)....
both other than ya... you are right ben!!!!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would hazard a guess most FTA's outside of EU members will all have some exemptions to protect certain areas of their members economics.
I think this is what Ben is getting at. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would hazard a guess most FTA's outside of EU members will all have some exemptions to protect certain areas of their members economics.
I think this is what Ben is getting at."
So it's free trade in name only... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would hazard a guess most FTA's outside of EU members will all have some exemptions to protect certain areas of their members economics.
I think this is what Ben is getting at.
So it's free trade in name only..."
It's free trade agreement on the goods negotiated obviously yes  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think some people look at FTA's to simplistically as in free trade in every conceivable sector, that's probably where trading blocs come into their own. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think some people look at FTA's to simplistically as in free trade in every conceivable sector, that's probably where trading blocs come into their own."
Thank you. FTA’s are not really FTA’s at all, if that makes sense |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I would hazard a guess most FTA's outside of EU members will all have some exemptions to protect certain areas of their members economics.
I think this is what Ben is getting at.
So it's free trade in name only..."
Everything But Arms. The clue is in the name. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think some people look at FTA's to simplistically as in free trade in every conceivable sector, that's probably where trading blocs come into their own.
Thank you. FTA’s are not really FTA’s at all, if that makes sense "
But they are FTA's , on the goods stated in the agreement.
I really don't get what you're driving at Ben.
Just because they have goods / services stipulated on either side "covered" not "covered" by the free trade agreement, the goods / services that are covered are just that, it's a free trade agreement on them goods / services. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"I think some people look at FTA's to simplistically as in free trade in every conceivable sector, that's probably where trading blocs come into their own.
Thank you. FTA’s are not really FTA’s at all, if that makes sense "
No. Unsurprisingly, it doesn't make sense.
Are you saying that the UK is not going to be able to negotiate any FTAs once we leave the EU as unless the FTA covers absolutely everything then it doesn't count in your book?
-Matt |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I think some people look at FTA's to simplistically as in free trade in every conceivable sector, that's probably where trading blocs come into their own.
Thank you. FTA’s are not really FTA’s at all, if that makes sense "
You have spent this entire thread "proving" that no country in the world has a true free trade deal...except for the countries in the EU.
You are an odd little chap  |
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"I think some people look at FTA's to simplistically as in free trade in every conceivable sector, that's probably where trading blocs come into their own.
Thank you. FTA’s are not really FTA’s at all, if that makes sense
You have spent this entire thread "proving" that no country in the world has a true free trade deal...except for the countries in the EU.
You are an odd little chap "
It really does show how misinformed brexiters are about the basics of all things EU.
"
And I assume that the the EU and Customs Union supporters here are also supporters of Trump and his protectionist policies? "
He thinks these two things are the same.
One is raising tariffs when the rest of the world is lowering them and the other has done more to lower tariffs than anyone else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And if every other box has a tick then doesn’t that say that the current system isn’t working?
The common factor is inequality and a growing divide between the have's and have nots.
Agreed. So the EU isn’t working is it?"
So do you mean
The haves....Brussels and Germany etc....?
The have nots....Greece, Italy, Spain etc....? |
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