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Fudging brexit
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x"
I don't think it is because the government don't *want* to leave the EU. I just think the reality is there is no way to leave without causing massive harm to the country, and they are trying to minimise that and reduce the harm as much as possible. The end result (strange that!) looks very much like 'not leaving the EU'.
-Matt |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x"
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
|
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"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
"
Clang !!!
(sound of giant penny being dropped)  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
As brexit meets reality, we can see the rhetoric is changing from "it's going to be awesome"
To
"This is going to be horrendous, but plucky Tommy plucky Tommy plucky Tommy rah rah Dunkirk two World Wars and one World Cup".
It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It can't go well, there should have been years of reports and investigations done to work out how leaving could be done and plans put together before there was even a referendum. There is just no way for the UK to leave the EU and be in any way better off. If you knew about the association between soverignty and trade you'd know we will end up less sovereign, we'll be poorer, we'll probably lose the NHS in a trade deal with America. The reason Brexit is going shit is because 17.4 million people voted for something that isn't possible and are to idiotic to realise what they did will hurt them. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"maybe the people voted out but remainers doing the deals ....bad move x"
sorry... really time to call you out on abject bullshit!!!!
you had an arch brexiteer at the foreign office... an arch brexiteer who is "suppose" to be in charge of sorting out trade deals, who said this would be the "easiest deal ever"... and an arch brexiteer who was in charge of the exit dept who could only be arse to meet his EU counterpart 4 times in 2 years!!!!
and NONE of them have ever told you what they would do different....
davis could do so.. he isn't in government!
johnson could tell you.... he isn't in government!
.......crickets!!!
none of them can they you what their mythical masterplan is... because they don't have one!! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
"
We can never leave completely sadly,the sad fact is we should never have joined.
I have allways known that,and realise we must not just walk away without a deal.
What I want we can never have unfortunately but wish we could find a way to just tell the EU to fuck off,very difficult with so many non democratic politions.
The result may be the end of our great democracy,due to the 600 plus pigs in the house of commons. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
We can never leave completely sadly,the sad fact is we should never have joined.
I have allways known that,and realise we must not just walk away without a deal.
What I want we can never have unfortunately but wish we could find a way to just tell the EU to fuck off,very difficult with so many non democratic politions.
The result may be the end of our great democracy,due to the 600 plus pigs in the house of commons."
You mean “so difficult when reality dawns and I realise that actually we would just be tucking ourselves over”.
-Matt |
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"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
We can never leave completely sadly,the sad fact is we should never have joined.
I have allways known that,and realise we must not just walk away without a deal.
What I want we can never have unfortunately but wish we could find a way to just tell the EU to fuck off,very difficult with so many non democratic politions.
The result may be the end of our great democracy,due to the 600 plus pigs in the house of commons."
What a load of old tosh |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
We can never leave completely sadly,the sad fact is we should never have joined.
I have allways known that,and realise we must not just walk away without a deal.
What I want we can never have unfortunately but wish we could find a way to just tell the EU to fuck off,very difficult with so many non democratic politions.
The result may be the end of our great democracy,due to the 600 plus pigs in the house of commons."
In case anyone was wondering how boneheaded populists get anywhere, this kind of nuance free nonsense is what they feed on. |
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"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.  "
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug."
What if you actually are both clever and smug? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug."
That has to be the most idiotic reply I've read in a long time on here. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug."
I wanted to stay because:
The EU is an economic and political superpower and we are one if the three most powerful countries within it.
It gives us international influence and reach way beyond that of our nation on its own.
We are fully integrated in one of the world's largest and wealthiest economies which has in turn allowed us to negotiate trade deals with 50 other countries including Canada and Japan from a position of strength.
We are part of an organisation large enough to censure multinational corporations such as Facebook and Google which the UK alone would struggle to do.
I do think that redistributing some wealth to developing EU stares will eventually lead to those countries becoming wealthier and more politically stable and consequently a larger market.
I think working together on a daily basis both at a government and personal level with free movement makes the chance of conflict in Europe much smaller.
It's not perfect and it needs a lot of work and evolution but it's much better than the alternative if hoping for the best.
Happy?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The position is presented all remainers have well thought out arguments and it is only the leave vote which had people voting for spurious reasons. Let’s not kid ourselves that we know this to be true... or that we can extrapolate this from forums, friends, etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug.
What if you actually are both clever and smug?"
Ok Socrates |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug.
I wanted to stay because:
The EU is an economic and political superpower and we are one if the three most powerful countries within it.
It gives us international influence and reach way beyond that of our nation on its own.
We are fully integrated in one of the world's largest and wealthiest economies which has in turn allowed us to negotiate trade deals with 50 other countries including Canada and Japan from a position of strength.
We are part of an organisation large enough to censure multinational corporations such as Facebook and Google which the UK alone would struggle to do.
I do think that redistributing some wealth to developing EU stares will eventually lead to those countries becoming wealthier and more politically stable and consequently a larger market.
I think working together on a daily basis both at a government and personal level with free movement makes the chance of conflict in Europe much smaller.
It's not perfect and it needs a lot of work and evolution but it's much better than the alternative if hoping for the best.
Happy? "
 |
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"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x"
There is no winning solution for brexit only the possibility of a least bad option and theree are too many who are so opposed to anything other than the the most extreme of all brexits that all the government can do is fudge right up to the crash-out and then desperately look for someone to blame.
Fact is that come 30th March 2019 if we leave the EU without a deal (as is looking increasingly likely) we will be the ONLY country in the world without a single trade deal, but apparently according to some that is great news. |
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"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in. "
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all). |
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"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug.
I wanted to stay because:
The EU is an economic and political superpower and we are one if the three most powerful countries within it.
It gives us international influence and reach way beyond that of our nation on its own.
We are fully integrated in one of the world's largest and wealthiest economies which has in turn allowed us to negotiate trade deals with 50 other countries including Canada and Japan from a position of strength.
"
The Canada/EU trade deal has not been ratified. The new Eurosceptic government in Italy are now refusing to ratify it, just thought that needed pointing out.
Also the EU/Canada trade deal does not include services. It's not much good to the UK having a trade deal within the EU that doesn't include services considering around 80% of our economy is services based. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all). "
Remain in the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all). "
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows? "
UK: we're leaving.
EU: Ok, then.
UK: I mean really, we are.
EU: OK then.
UK: I insist I can take my toys with me.
EU: Er. no.
UK: But you must, we are too important!
EU: Er, bye.
We shot ourselves in one foot. Now we are pointing the gun at the other and telling the EU we'll fire if they don't take us back.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?"
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper."
i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way. "
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
"
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
"
That is the process, written into a treaty by the UK. Lisbon, I think. No detail whatsoever, just two years from the day you submit your resignation.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal."
spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us. "
How many people do you know who have previously purchased new cars from a German brand, who have now said they won't buy a German car again after Brexit? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
That is the process, written into a treaty by the UK. Lisbon, I think. No detail whatsoever, just two years from the day you submit your resignation.
"
isnt it up to two years ? I think it could have been done quicker. Just could only take longer if agreed by all parties. |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal."
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal.."
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this. |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this."
we wrote part of the terms of the deal, just makes us look a bit stupid and arrogant to say well yeah we know what the terms are we signed up to but we now don't think they should apply to us..
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all). "
Which "many" is that Centaur? The EU will change and evolve just as our government does. It helps if we have MEPs who are engaged enough to work for their constituents but a lot of ours were UKIP and by definition took the pay check and only caused damage.
Cameron was a crap negotiator because he did what you think we should do. Shout loudly and demand things because we're British.
How did we get a rebate or not join the Euro or get the "benefit" of not controlling our working hours? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug.
I wanted to stay because:
The EU is an economic and political superpower and we are one if the three most powerful countries within it.
It gives us international influence and reach way beyond that of our nation on its own.
We are fully integrated in one of the world's largest and wealthiest economies which has in turn allowed us to negotiate trade deals with 50 other countries including Canada and Japan from a position of strength.
The Canada/EU trade deal has not been ratified. The new Eurosceptic government in Italy are now refusing to ratify it, just thought that needed pointing out.
Also the EU/Canada trade deal does not include services. It's not much good to the UK having a trade deal within the EU that doesn't include services considering around 80% of our economy is services based. "
The Japanese deal has been ratified and signed. It's massive. We already benefit from over 50 others. Italy does not want to kill the deal, they are using it as a negotiating took. Using their power within the EU. Fair enough. They don't want to kill ot though. They benefit as much as everyone else...except for us.
One of your main reasons for leaving the EU is to help the fishermen. What proportion of the UK economy is that?
Service deal are much, much harder to negotiate as it requires far more regulatory equivalence which is much harder to achieve that producing products or crops to a certain standard.
Are you saying that a non-services trade deal is not something that we will accept if we are on our own? Is there no benefit to it? I thought the economy needed rebalancing anyway. That was one of your previous arguments for the service sector suffering more if we left the EU. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us. "
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it? |
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"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug.
I wanted to stay because:
The EU is an economic and political superpower and we are one if the three most powerful countries within it.
It gives us international influence and reach way beyond that of our nation on its own.
We are fully integrated in one of the world's largest and wealthiest economies which has in turn allowed us to negotiate trade deals with 50 other countries including Canada and Japan from a position of strength.
We are part of an organisation large enough to censure multinational corporations such as Facebook and Google which the UK alone would struggle to do.
I do think that redistributing some wealth to developing EU stares will eventually lead to those countries becoming wealthier and more politically stable and consequently a larger market.
I think working together on a daily basis both at a government and personal level with free movement makes the chance of conflict in Europe much smaller.
It's not perfect and it needs a lot of work and evolution but it's much better than the alternative if hoping for the best.
Happy? "
Almost Exactly my thoughts x
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
We'll all be buying British-made cars, won't we?
Not Austin Allegros or anything like that.
More Nissan Micras.
Good news for sparky Sam and his chums in Sunderland.
Why would leave voters rather keep people in work in a Mercedes car factory in Germany when they can Make Britain Great again by driving a Micra made here instead.
Support British workers, I say.
|
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this."
Of course they will. Especially the 70 odd countries with whom we currently have a trade deal (through the EU). Im sure theyll rush to junk their relationship with 27 countries to get in bed with us. It's madness |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"We'll all be buying British-made cars, won't we?
Not Austin Allegros or anything like that.
More Nissan Micras.
Good news for sparky Sam and his chums in Sunderland.
Why would leave voters rather keep people in work in a Mercedes car factory in Germany when they can Make Britain Great again by driving a Micra made here instead.
Support British workers, I say.
"
The car I just brought was built in Valencia. |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal.."
Reneged on a deal? By that you mean we voted to leave in an open democratic process. And for the record Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about the EU. He'll do a USA trade deal with us in a heartbeat after Brexit and has already stated his intention to do so. He is tearing up the rule book on the global world order. You are looking through a lense of how the world used to be, ironic really as remoaners often accuse Brexiters of yearning for the past and looking back through rose tinted glasses, lol. The world has moved on and changed since the Brexit and Trump vote happened. It's time you accepted how the world is now, not how it used to be before. |
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"We'll all be buying British-made cars, won't we?
Not Austin Allegros or anything like that.
More Nissan Micras.
Good news for sparky Sam and his chums in Sunderland.
Why would leave voters rather keep people in work in a Mercedes car factory in Germany when they can Make Britain Great again by driving a Micra made here instead.
Support British workers, I say.
"
Nissan don't just make Micra's. The Qashqai, Leaf and Juke are better models.  |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?"
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny. |
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"We'll all be buying British-made cars, won't we?
Not Austin Allegros or anything like that.
More Nissan Micras.
Good news for sparky Sam and his chums in Sunderland.
Why would leave voters rather keep people in work in a Mercedes car factory in Germany when they can Make Britain Great again by driving a Micra made here instead.
Support British workers, I say.
Nissan don't just make Micra's. The Qashqai, Leaf and Juke are better models. "
You also forgot the Nissan Note. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny. "
It's a low wage country with...er...a free trade agreement with the EU.
Let's talk about arguments stacking up and scrutiny shall we? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal? By that you mean we voted to leave in an open democratic process. And for the record Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about the EU. He'll do a USA trade deal with us in a heartbeat after Brexit and has already stated his intention to do so. He is tearing up the rule book on the global world order. You are looking through a lense of how the world used to be, ironic really as remoaners often accuse Brexiters of yearning for the past and looking back through rose tinted glasses, lol. The world has moved on and changed since the Brexit and Trump vote happened. It's time you accepted how the world is now, not how it used to be before. "
Why? Why shouldn't I want a better one? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this."
dear peacehaven....
no!!!..... just no!!!!
what would happen in the "real world" is the UK's credit rating would go thru the floor!!!!
what does that mean?.... it would mean the uk debt would end being higher...
you would pay more in interest payments to cover what you had already borrowed....
uk bond rates would be much higher, which means you are having to pay more to cover money needed for, for example infrustructure projects.......
and thats just the simple stuff...
if you want to know what would happen... look at the 10yr uk bond rate and compare that to greece or italys 10 yr bond rate....... |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny. "
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!  |
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"
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this.
dear peacehaven....
no!!!..... just no!!!!
what would happen in the "real world" is the UK's credit rating would go thru the floor!!!!
what does that mean?.... it would mean the uk debt would end being higher...
you would pay more in interest payments to cover what you had already borrowed....
uk bond rates would be much higher, which means you are having to pay more to cover money needed for, for example infrustructure projects.......
and thats just the simple stuff...
if you want to know what would happen... look at the 10yr uk bond rate and compare that to greece or italys 10 yr bond rate......."
....and the seas will turn red like blood and boil, and plagues of locusts will terrorise us and the Sun will not rise and there will be 40 days of night and this and that and, and, and.......
Meanwhile back in the real world, The Bank of England said in an official report that they had done stress tests which showed UK banks would survive a no deal Brexit and they were ready for it.
You see Fabio we've already had dozens of apocalyptic predictions from remainers of what would happen from a vote to leave, back in 2016, none of which has happened. Just one example Remainers said upto 500,000 jobs would be lost from a vote to leave (not actually leaving just the effect from a leave vote alone) and the exact opposite happened, over 600,000 new jobs have been added to the economy since we voted leave in 2016. Now you're trying to resurrect project fear as Jacob Rees Mogg put it, "remainers are now rolling out project fear on speed". Many of your desperate posts are perfect examples of what Rees Mogg was talking about. |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU! "
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it. "
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it. "
No, business would be very happy for us to "leave" the EU, and stay in the customs union. The great thing is, extreme brexiters like you are so ignorant of how it works, you won't even notice! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this.
dear peacehaven....
no!!!..... just no!!!!
what would happen in the "real world" is the UK's credit rating would go thru the floor!!!!
what does that mean?.... it would mean the uk debt would end being higher...
you would pay more in interest payments to cover what you had already borrowed....
uk bond rates would be much higher, which means you are having to pay more to cover money needed for, for example infrustructure projects.......
and thats just the simple stuff...
if you want to know what would happen... look at the 10yr uk bond rate and compare that to greece or italys 10 yr bond rate.......
....and the seas will turn red like blood and boil, and plagues of locusts will terrorise us and the Sun will not rise and there will be 40 days of night and this and that and, and, and.......
Meanwhile back in the real world, The Bank of England said in an official report that they had done stress tests which showed UK banks would survive a no deal Brexit and they were ready for it.
You see Fabio we've already had dozens of apocalyptic predictions from remainers of what would happen from a vote to leave, back in 2016, none of which has happened. Just one example Remainers said upto 500,000 jobs would be lost from a vote to leave (not actually leaving just the effect from a leave vote alone) and the exact opposite happened, over 600,000 new jobs have been added to the economy since we voted leave in 2016. Now you're trying to resurrect project fear as Jacob Rees Mogg put it, "remainers are now rolling out project fear on speed". Many of your desperate posts are perfect examples of what Rees Mogg was talking about. "
Have leave voters made any apocalyptic predictions about anything? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
You might have wanted to stay but absolutely no clue why. Please don't try to appear clever and smug.
I wanted to stay because:
The EU is an economic and political superpower and we are one if the three most powerful countries within it.
It gives us international influence and reach way beyond that of our nation on its own.
We are fully integrated in one of the world's largest and wealthiest economies which has in turn allowed us to negotiate trade deals with 50 other countries including Canada and Japan from a position of strength.
We are part of an organisation large enough to censure multinational corporations such as Facebook and Google which the UK alone would struggle to do.
I do think that redistributing some wealth to developing EU stares will eventually lead to those countries becoming wealthier and more politically stable and consequently a larger market.
I think working together on a daily basis both at a government and personal level with free movement makes the chance of conflict in Europe much smaller.
It's not perfect and it needs a lot of work and evolution but it's much better than the alternative if hoping for the best.
Happy? "
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this.
dear peacehaven....
no!!!..... just no!!!!
what would happen in the "real world" is the UK's credit rating would go thru the floor!!!!
what does that mean?.... it would mean the uk debt would end being higher...
you would pay more in interest payments to cover what you had already borrowed....
uk bond rates would be much higher, which means you are having to pay more to cover money needed for, for example infrustructure projects.......
and thats just the simple stuff...
if you want to know what would happen... look at the 10yr uk bond rate and compare that to greece or italys 10 yr bond rate.......
....and the seas will turn red like blood and boil, and plagues of locusts will terrorise us and the Sun will not rise and there will be 40 days of night and this and that and, and, and.......
Meanwhile back in the real world, The Bank of England said in an official report that they had done stress tests which showed UK banks would survive a no deal Brexit and they were ready for it.
You see Fabio we've already had dozens of apocalyptic predictions from remainers of what would happen from a vote to leave, back in 2016, none of which has happened. Just one example Remainers said upto 500,000 jobs would be lost from a vote to leave (not actually leaving just the effect from a leave vote alone) and the exact opposite happened, over 600,000 new jobs have been added to the economy since we voted leave in 2016. Now you're trying to resurrect project fear as Jacob Rees Mogg put it, "remainers are now rolling out project fear on speed". Many of your desperate posts are perfect examples of what Rees Mogg was talking about. "
that answer centy just shows that you have absolutely no idea of what you talking about....
you for some reason are talking about private banks and go off on a tangent
I am talking about government borrowing and government debt......
but yes... please keep spouting the party lines on something you clearly have no idea about! |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it.
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all?"
Is Turkey a full member of the EU? Seeing as you are really struggling with this, then a yes or No reply will suffice. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it.
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all?
Is Turkey a full member of the EU? Seeing as you are really struggling with this, then a yes or No reply will suffice. "
What question did you have in your head that you actually wanted answered?
Did you read the thread or just start shouting because it's me?
Turkey is not a full member of the EU. Was that what you wanted to know? You could have Googled that.
They are a low wage economy with a customs union agreement with the EU. They take all EU rules and have no say in anything.
You want that for the UK?
44% of their exports are with the EU but they are "free" to make their own deals.
Is that what you had in mind for the UK?
They are we a low wage economy.
Is that what you want for the UK?
I'm sure you'd have preferred a yes/no answer but you do seem determined to shout about your ignorance |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it.
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all?
Is Turkey a full member of the EU? Seeing as you are really struggling with this, then a yes or No reply will suffice.
What question did you have in your head that you actually wanted answered?
Did you read the thread or just start shouting because it's me?
Turkey is not a full member of the EU. Was that what you wanted to know? You could have Googled that.
They are a low wage economy with a customs union agreement with the EU. They take all EU rules and have no say in anything.
You want that for the UK?
44% of their exports are with the EU but they are "free" to make their own deals.
Is that what you had in mind for the UK?
They are we a low wage economy.
Is that what you want for the UK?
I'm sure you'd have preferred a yes/no answer but you do seem determined to shout about your ignorance "
Twice you've accused me of shouting in your little rant. Pray tell where did I use any exclamation marks or Capital letters to suggest shouting? Do you understand the English language or did you just imagine it all in your head? (Like you seem to do with a lot of things). |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it.
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all?
Is Turkey a full member of the EU? Seeing as you are really struggling with this, then a yes or No reply will suffice.
What question did you have in your head that you actually wanted answered?
Did you read the thread or just start shouting because it's me?
Turkey is not a full member of the EU. Was that what you wanted to know? You could have Googled that.
They are a low wage economy with a customs union agreement with the EU. They take all EU rules and have no say in anything.
You want that for the UK?
44% of their exports are with the EU but they are "free" to make their own deals.
Is that what you had in mind for the UK?
They are we a low wage economy.
Is that what you want for the UK?
I'm sure you'd have preferred a yes/no answer but you do seem determined to shout about your ignorance
Twice you've accused me of shouting in your little rant. Pray tell where did I use any exclamation marks or Capital letters to suggest shouting? Do you understand the English language or did you just imagine it all in your head? (Like you seem to do with a lot of things). "
Is that a change of subject?
I apologise. You should "win" something as you have put in a lot of hard work writing some words and arranging them in patterns.
You have not written any words in upper case letters or any exclamation marks.
However, I wasn't implying that you were actually shouting. It was a dramatic device to demonstrate that you excitedly started writing because you thought you had a point you could win. You did not think first.
The purpose of my response was to indicate that it makes more sense to relocate work to the correct side of a tariff barrier.
They did not have any van production facilities in the EU so they built a new plant.
From the perspective of van production Turkey is economically identical to the EU but with lower costs and protection for employees.
Are any of the things that I have written imaginary or impossible to verify?
Will you have the courtesy to answer my questions now?
I won't hold my breath |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The only practical way to leave the EU is through the EAA/EFTA option including article 112. That would be a good starting point. Time is running out though and there is yet to be any serious debate on how best to exit. |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal? By that you mean we voted to leave in an open democratic process. And for the record Donald Trump doesn't give a shit about the EU. He'll do a USA trade deal with us in a heartbeat after Brexit and has already stated his intention to do so. He is tearing up the rule book on the global world order. You are looking through a lense of how the world used to be, ironic really as remoaners often accuse Brexiters of yearning for the past and looking back through rose tinted glasses, lol. The world has moved on and changed since the Brexit and Trump vote happened. It's time you accepted how the world is now, not how it used to be before. "
That you use ironic is very ironic given you once again have failed to stay on topic..
Go back and read what was suggested and to which I referred..
You seem to not be able to follow the conversation..
Care to look again at what trump just announced with the EU..
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Wait. I’m confused again
Can we believe poles or not ?
Can we believe the Bank of England predictions or not ?
Will millions of Turks come and steal our jobs, or are they a business model we should be aspiring to? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Wait. I’m confused again
Can we believe poles or not ?
Can we believe the Bank of England predictions or not ?
Will millions of Turks come and steal our jobs, or are they a business model we should be aspiring to?"
The reason why you are probably confused is that centy went “10 shades of mad” without knowing the subject matter... and just spraying words which I think he thought sounded good but in fact went scatter gun and hit a wide range of nothing.....
Hence him replying about private banks to a post about government borrowing and debt.... |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it.
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all?
Is Turkey a full member of the EU? Seeing as you are really struggling with this, then a yes or No reply will suffice.
What question did you have in your head that you actually wanted answered?
Did you read the thread or just start shouting because it's me?
Turkey is not a full member of the EU. Was that what you wanted to know? You could have Googled that.
They are a low wage economy with a customs union agreement with the EU. They take all EU rules and have no say in anything.
You want that for the UK?
44% of their exports are with the EU but they are "free" to make their own deals.
Is that what you had in mind for the UK?
They are we a low wage economy.
Is that what you want for the UK?
I'm sure you'd have preferred a yes/no answer but you do seem determined to shout about your ignorance
Twice you've accused me of shouting in your little rant. Pray tell where did I use any exclamation marks or Capital letters to suggest shouting? Do you understand the English language or did you just imagine it all in your head? (Like you seem to do with a lot of things).
Is that a change of subject?
I apologise. You should "win" something as you have put in a lot of hard work writing some words and arranging them in patterns.
You have not written any words in upper case letters or any exclamation marks.
However, I wasn't implying that you were actually shouting. It was a dramatic device to demonstrate that you excitedly started writing because you thought you had a point you could win. You did not think first.
The purpose of my response was to indicate that it makes more sense to relocate work to the correct side of a tariff barrier.
They did not have any van production facilities in the EU so they built a new plant.
From the perspective of van production Turkey is economically identical to the EU but with lower costs and protection for employees.
Are any of the things that I have written imaginary or impossible to verify?
Will you have the courtesy to answer my questions now?
I won't hold my breath "
Well now we've established that I wasn't shouting and you imagined it all in your head, yes happy to answer your questions.
Ford did have a transit van production facility in Southampton in the UK in the EU but decided to move it out of the UK and out of the EU over to Turkey. This happened years before there was ever a suggestion that a referendum might happen in the UK on membership of the EU. No remainer can blame Ford's move on Brexit (and they now seem to blame absolutely anything and everything on Brexit).
As for you saying that Turkey is a low wage economy, and the UK isn't you are wrong to assume that. The UK has effectively become a low wage economy. The minimum wage is not a living wage, many people can't get by on it. Many people on minimum wage have to have their wages supplemented by the government in the form of tax credits. If this doesn't tell you we are already a low wage economy within the EU then frankly nothing will.
The UK has become a low wage economy thanks in part to membership of the EU. It started around 2004 funnily enough the same year Tony Blair opened the floodgates to Eastern European countries in the EU. As migrants flooded in here in the ensuing years under mass uncontrolled immigration EU free movement of people rules, wages were driven down in the UK. Thanks to the EU, oversupply of employees will have the effect of employers offering lower wages, and people willing to work for less to secure a job. The very thing you are arguing in favour of (Membership of the EU) is the cause of the thing you are arguing against (a low wage economy). |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
What a sheltered life some people have had if they think that the UK is a low wage economy. It shows how little they understand of the world outside of our shores.
The other thing to bear in mind is regulation. Luckily we are not a low regulation economy either. Well at least we are not at the moment, but would be if JRM had his way.
14 out of the world's 15 most polluted cities are in India. When listening to evidence on environmental issues JRM said that whatever regulations were good enough for India were good enough for the UK.
Personally I don't want the UK to have 14 of the most polutted cities in the world. |
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"What a sheltered life some people have had if they think that the UK is a low wage economy. It shows how little they understand of the world outside of our shores.
The other thing to bear in mind is regulation. Luckily we are not a low regulation economy either. Well at least we are not at the moment, but would be if JRM had his way.
14 out of the world's 15 most polluted cities are in India. When listening to evidence on environmental issues JRM said that whatever regulations were good enough for India were good enough for the UK.
Personally I don't want the UK to have 14 of the most polutted cities in the world. "
We are a low wage economy!
We are not a starvation wage economy , but we are moving that way.
Just to be clear in the bad old days of 40+ years ago (according to Centy and those who have swallowed the neocon bullshit of Thatcherism and Reaganomics) every average family in Briton could live on a single wage. That is house, feed, cloth and pay utility bills on a single wage, and have money left over for holidays. Any average family that wished to own their own home could afford to buy it and get a mortgage on a single wage.
How many can do that now?
The idea that we are a high wage economy is total bullshit! And for the most part we swallow it hook line and sinker! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m guessing then the higher wage Eu economies are glad we’re leaving .... gets rid of the risk of uncontrolled immigration from the uk stealing their jobs.... |
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"I’m guessing then the higher wage Eu economies are glad we’re leaving .... gets rid of the risk of uncontrolled immigration from the uk stealing their jobs.... "
Maybe you should do some research about their views. They are absolutely NOT glad that we are leaving, because the higher wage economies are the successful economies who put more into the EU than they take out, like we do/did, and they are now being asked for increased contributions, to make up the shortfall from our soon to be missing contribution. Some have already refused to pay more. |
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny. "
Maybe because Turkiey is part of the Customs Union.....just a thought eh? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’m guessing then the higher wage Eu economies are glad we’re leaving .... gets rid of the risk of uncontrolled immigration from the uk stealing their jobs....
Maybe you should do some research about their views. They are absolutely NOT glad that we are leaving, because the higher wage economies are the successful economies who put more into the EU than they take out, like we do/did, and they are now being asked for increased contributions, to make up the shortfall from our soon to be missing contribution. Some have already refused to pay more."
twas sarcasm. Someone said we were a lower wage economy. |
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"I’m guessing then the higher wage Eu economies are glad we’re leaving .... gets rid of the risk of uncontrolled immigration from the uk stealing their jobs.... "
Well seeing as you've admitted later in the thread this post was said in sarcasm and was not meant to be taken seriously, are you denying that wages are low in the UK?
What about one of the leaders of the remain campaign Stuart Rose, who admitted during the referendum campaign wages in the UK would rise after Brexit. In case you need pointers about where and when he said this, he admitted it during questioning while being grilled by a House of Commons select committee on Brexit during the referendum campaign in 2016. So not leave propaganda, not someone with a leave leaning bias, this was said by one of your own remain campaign leaders.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I’m just pointing out some are viewing us a high wage ... and others low wage. If we’re low wage the *take our jobs* line doesn’t hold water. If we’re high wage holding up turkey as being a non eu success story doesn’t really hold. As with a lot of brexit there seem to be two contradictory PoVs being held on the same side. That you and andy have polar opposite views makes me think one of you won’t be happy with brexit !! |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal. spot on mate count the amount of German cars on our roads they will soon kick of if they can't sell them to us.
Way off the mark if you don't think it through.
What cars will we buy instead?
Will everyone buy Jaguars? Will Jaguar be able to sell their cars to anyone else? How much will their component costs rise? Will other car companies build their cars here if it costs more to import parts and export the finished product? Why not move production to a plant in their biggest market in this part of the world (the EU) and ship them to the smaller UK market? We get to pay more either way but it's cheaper for them to take the second approach isn't it?
In that case then why did Ford decide to close their Transit van production facility in Portsmouth/Southampton a few years before Brexit and move the factory to Turkey (a country outside of the EU). You talk a lot, but many of your arguments just don't stack up under close scrutiny.
Turkey is in a customs union with the EU!
But not actually in the EU as a full member.
Which shows that business is not really that bothered about being in the EU as Easy UK tried to characterise it.
You are a simple chap aren't you?
Are we a low wage economy? Would you like us to be?
Are they on the other side of a tariff barrier?
Are there any negatives from Brexit? Any at all?
Is Turkey a full member of the EU? Seeing as you are really struggling with this, then a yes or No reply will suffice.
What question did you have in your head that you actually wanted answered?
Did you read the thread or just start shouting because it's me?
Turkey is not a full member of the EU. Was that what you wanted to know? You could have Googled that.
They are a low wage economy with a customs union agreement with the EU. They take all EU rules and have no say in anything.
You want that for the UK?
44% of their exports are with the EU but they are "free" to make their own deals.
Is that what you had in mind for the UK?
They are we a low wage economy.
Is that what you want for the UK?
I'm sure you'd have preferred a yes/no answer but you do seem determined to shout about your ignorance
Twice you've accused me of shouting in your little rant. Pray tell where did I use any exclamation marks or Capital letters to suggest shouting? Do you understand the English language or did you just imagine it all in your head? (Like you seem to do with a lot of things).
Is that a change of subject?
I apologise. You should "win" something as you have put in a lot of hard work writing some words and arranging them in patterns.
You have not written any words in upper case letters or any exclamation marks.
However, I wasn't implying that you were actually shouting. It was a dramatic device to demonstrate that you excitedly started writing because you thought you had a point you could win. You did not think first.
The purpose of my response was to indicate that it makes more sense to relocate work to the correct side of a tariff barrier.
They did not have any van production facilities in the EU so they built a new plant.
From the perspective of van production Turkey is economically identical to the EU but with lower costs and protection for employees.
Are any of the things that I have written imaginary or impossible to verify?
Will you have the courtesy to answer my questions now?
I won't hold my breath
Well now we've established that I wasn't shouting and you imagined it all in your head, yes happy to answer your questions.
Ford did have a transit van production facility in Southampton in the UK in the EU but decided to move it out of the UK and out of the EU over to Turkey. This happened years before there was ever a suggestion that a referendum might happen in the UK on membership of the EU. No remainer can blame Ford's move on Brexit (and they now seem to blame absolutely anything and everything on Brexit).
As for you saying that Turkey is a low wage economy, and the UK isn't you are wrong to assume that. The UK has effectively become a low wage economy. The minimum wage is not a living wage, many people can't get by on it. Many people on minimum wage have to have their wages supplemented by the government in the form of tax credits. If this doesn't tell you we are already a low wage economy within the EU then frankly nothing will.
The UK has become a low wage economy thanks in part to membership of the EU. It started around 2004 funnily enough the same year Tony Blair opened the floodgates to Eastern European countries in the EU. As migrants flooded in here in the ensuing years under mass uncontrolled immigration EU free movement of people rules, wages were driven down in the UK. Thanks to the EU, oversupply of employees will have the effect of employers offering lower wages, and people willing to work for less to secure a job. The very thing you are arguing in favour of (Membership of the EU) is the cause of the thing you are arguing against (a low wage economy). "
Yes, the point about using the word "shout", which also refers to making an exclamation, was a very important and relevant one and worth repeating again
As predicted. You did not manage to respond to any of the questions I put to you.
Again, the actual point that was being discussed is which side of a tariff barrier you would want your production facility?
As a manufacturer do you want to put tax on your components and raw materials and then more tax on exporting the complete product or not?
If we leave the EU we will be om the wrong side to sell to the EU which is the largest local economy. Ironically Turkey will not be.
I did not even mention Ford or Turkey. You did. Why, I have no idea. To change the subject perhaps?
The actual reason that Ford shut down UK production was overcapacity. The Turkish plant already existed and had much lower costs so production went there. A pretty simple business decision.
By comparison to the rest of the world the UK is really not a low wage economy. Especially when you look at vehicle assembly. Go and find out how much Chinese or Indian or Brazilian workers get for doing exactly the same job and what employment protection and holiday entitlements they have.
If you want to compete making the same product and have to pay tariffs then where does the saving come from to be competitive?
How will leaving the EU, particularly without a deal, help? We are close to full employment now but wage growth is tiny despite demand exceeding supply even in skilled jobs. More and more employment is precarious, not because of EU regulation or oversupply of labour but because of our own, UK employment law.
Should wages be so low? No. Is it because of the EU? No. Most other European nations of equivalent wealth have better pay and conditions than we do. We are to blame. We have to own our own problems and fix them not blame a bogey man.
That is the thing that I find most unforgivable. Blaming others for our problems and pretending that the solutions for complex issues are easy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
We are part of an organisation large enough to censure multinational corporations such as Facebook and Google which the UK alone would struggle to do.
"
But incapable of bringing Volkswagen to task following the diesel emissions scandal.
In an article on the Greenpeace website, John German of the International Council on Clean Transportation, an engineer who helped to first expose the dieselgate scandal, has said: “The fixes in the US will make a huge difference to NOx emissions [nitrogen oxides]. By contrast the EU fixes are minimal and not much of a fix.”
The article goes on...
The European fix “seems to be simply a PR operation, with not much improvement in air quality”, Charles Tumelaire, a former diesel emissions engineer for rival Ford, told Unearthed.
“In the US [Volkswagen] had to change everything and it has cost them a fortune. In Europe, it has cost them a bit of money but it is nothing in comparison,” he added.
-
U.S. authorities have extracted $25 billion in fines, penalties and restitution from Volkswagen for the 580,000 tainted diesels it sold in the U.S.
In Europe, where the company sold 8 million tainted diesels, Volkswagen has not paid a single Euro in government penalties. |
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it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
and also made the UK shut down the coal industry
the guy was a bit crushed when I explained that EU didn’t stop the UK buying coal from Russia, Colombia and the USA (there in the EU right ???)
as it has been said Turkey are in the customs union and Ford had a good plant there so they moved the Transit, good deal for Ford 
it was Maggie and co that knocked down the coal industry (and steel too) but everyone in Yorkshire seems to have forgotten that
(maybe when you vote Brexit you gain a selective memory) 
and remember the car companies who don’t get a massive bung as compensation for being outside the EU will move to it
BMW (Rolls Royce and Mini)have a much under used plant in Austria
Nissan in plants in France, as well as USA & Russia
Toyota has plants in France, Czech Repubic,Slovakia
Honda has plants in Ghent , Aalst, Belgium
Peugeot (owner of Vauxhall) have moved out before, their old factory used now by Jaguar/Landrover
Tata ( Jaguar/Landrover) will take action if a bad deal hurts them
and if anyone says that they can stuff their cars and try to sell them elsewhere,they already do
8 out of every 10 cars built here are for export to the EU and beyond  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Are the government doing it on purpose because they don't really want to leave the EU x
No. It's the reality of leaving confronting the fantasy of the Brexit campaign.
Article 50 has been triggered, so the UK is leaving - that is what the majority asked for.
None of those who campaigned for leave ever came up with a route plan for doing so.
All we had was a slogan on the side of a bus and rhetoric about it being the easiest thing in the world.
The Brexit leaders were even propelled into the highest offices of state, with all the resources of the civil service at their disposal, and still they did not come up with any sort of blueprint.
Now they are scarpering.
Is the penny starting to drop yet?
We can never leave completely sadly,the sad fact is we should never have joined.
I have allways known that,and realise we must not just walk away without a deal.
What I want we can never have unfortunately but wish we could find a way to just tell the EU to fuck off,very difficult with so many non democratic politions.
The result may be the end of our great democracy,due to the 600 plus pigs in the house of commons.
You mean “so difficult when reality dawns and I realise that actually we would just be tucking ourselves over”.
-Matt"
No |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What a sheltered life some people have had if they think that the UK is a low wage economy. It shows how little they understand of the world outside of our shores.
The other thing to bear in mind is regulation. Luckily we are not a low regulation economy either. Well at least we are not at the moment, but would be if JRM had his way.
14 out of the world's 15 most polluted cities are in India. When listening to evidence on environmental issues JRM said that whatever regulations were good enough for India were good enough for the UK.
Personally I don't want the UK to have 14 of the most polutted cities in the world.
We are a low wage economy!
We are not a starvation wage economy , but we are moving that way.
Just to be clear in the bad old days of 40+ years ago (according to Centy and those who have swallowed the neocon bullshit of Thatcherism and Reaganomics) every average family in Briton could live on a single wage. That is house, feed, cloth and pay utility bills on a single wage, and have money left over for holidays. Any average family that wished to own their own home could afford to buy it and get a mortgage on a single wage.
How many can do that now?
The idea that we are a high wage economy is total bullshit! And for the most part we swallow it hook line and sinker!"
We are a high wage economy fact |
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Most people have a plan for what they want to do after the revolution. Brexiters have none. No Brexiter has yet told me one concrete benefit that will happen after Brexit.
Brexit started as an ideological campaign by the far right and neocons who have a vested interest in the outcome (asset stripping the UK mostly). All the current issues such as trade, the Irish border, Gibraltar, trade deals were apparent 2 years ago but were conveniently hidden when leading the voters up the garden path.
Britain’s Brexiters do not have a plan. They want their revolutionary act – leaving the European Union – and they have got it. But they accept absolutely no responsibility for what comes afterwards. Instead they arrogate to themselves the right to carp, criticise, reject, undermine and denounce as betrayal every aspect of every attempt to define the consequences of their revolution.
They have no doctrine other than dislike of the EU. They have no programme to replace it. Their revolutionism is a performance not a project. It’s an act – vacuous, hollow, infantile, fanciful and foolish.
Never at any stage do the Brexiters ever accept the practical duty of producing a detailed post-Brexit plan. Instead, David Davis smirked through meeting after meeting before baling out, Boris Johnson gabbily chased cheap headlines, Michael Gove spins a wordy web of courteous waffle and Liam Fox insists that black is white and white black.
Mr Davis said a few weeks ago that Mrs May’s ideas would not work. So, what might work instead? There was, predictably, no answer from Mr Davis and his like. There never is. The Brexiters created the mess that the ordinary person is going to pay dearly for. But it is never, ever, their fault. Nothing ever is. It is only, ever, someone else’s fault: the civil service, the judges, business leaders, the Irish, the liberal elites or Brussels.
Tell us dear Brexiters what benefits will we definitely see? Even Rees Mogg (who has moved his City investment firm HQto Dublin) was saying it may take 50 years to see any benefits saying “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time,” and “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.” Funny we never saw either of those statements on the side of that red bus.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
Tell us dear Brexiters what benefits will we definitely see? Even Rees Mogg (who has moved his City investment firm HQto Dublin) was saying it may take 50 years to see any benefits saying “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time,” and “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.” Funny we never saw either of those statements on the side of that red bus.
"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
and also made the UK shut down the coal industry
the guy was a bit crushed when I explained that EU didn’t stop the UK buying coal from Russia, Colombia and the USA (there in the EU right ???)
as it has been said Turkey are in the customs union and Ford had a good plant there so they moved the Transit, good deal for Ford
it was Maggie and co that knocked down the coal industry (and steel too) but everyone in Yorkshire seems to have forgotten that
(maybe when you vote Brexit you gain a selective memory)
and remember the car companies who don’t get a massive bung as compensation for being outside the EU will move to it
BMW (Rolls Royce and Mini)have a much under used plant in Austria
Nissan in plants in France, as well as USA & Russia
Toyota has plants in France, Czech Repubic,Slovakia
Honda has plants in Ghent , Aalst, Belgium
Peugeot (owner of Vauxhall) have moved out before, their old factory used now by Jaguar/Landrover
Tata ( Jaguar/Landrover) will take action if a bad deal hurts them
and if anyone says that they can stuff their cars and try to sell them elsewhere,they already do
8 out of every 10 cars built here are for export to the EU and beyond "
Jaguar/Landrover is building a plant in the Czech republic and already manufactures in Austria. |
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"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
and also made the UK shut down the coal industry
the guy was a bit crushed when I explained that EU didn’t stop the UK buying coal from Russia, Colombia and the USA (there in the EU right ???)
as it has been said Turkey are in the customs union and Ford had a good plant there so they moved the Transit, good deal for Ford
it was Maggie and co that knocked down the coal industry (and steel too) but everyone in Yorkshire seems to have forgotten that
(maybe when you vote Brexit you gain a selective memory)
and remember the car companies who don’t get a massive bung as compensation for being outside the EU will move to it
BMW (Rolls Royce and Mini)have a much under used plant in Austria
Nissan in plants in France, as well as USA & Russia
Toyota has plants in France, Czech Repubic,Slovakia
Honda has plants in Ghent , Aalst, Belgium
Peugeot (owner of Vauxhall) have moved out before, their old factory used now by Jaguar/Landrover
Tata ( Jaguar/Landrover) will take action if a bad deal hurts them
and if anyone says that they can stuff their cars and try to sell them elsewhere,they already do
8 out of every 10 cars built here are for export to the EU and beyond
Jaguar/Landrover is building a plant in the Czech republic and already manufactures in Austria."
Thank you i stand corrected |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
and also made the UK shut down the coal industry
the guy was a bit crushed when I explained that EU didn’t stop the UK buying coal from Russia, Colombia and the USA (there in the EU right ???)
as it has been said Turkey are in the customs union and Ford had a good plant there so they moved the Transit, good deal for Ford
it was Maggie and co that knocked down the coal industry (and steel too) but everyone in Yorkshire seems to have forgotten that
(maybe when you vote Brexit you gain a selective memory)
and remember the car companies who don’t get a massive bung as compensation for being outside the EU will move to it
BMW (Rolls Royce and Mini)have a much under used plant in Austria
Nissan in plants in France, as well as USA & Russia
Toyota has plants in France, Czech Repubic,Slovakia
Honda has plants in Ghent , Aalst, Belgium
Peugeot (owner of Vauxhall) have moved out before, their old factory used now by Jaguar/Landrover
Tata ( Jaguar/Landrover) will take action if a bad deal hurts them
and if anyone says that they can stuff their cars and try to sell them elsewhere,they already do
8 out of every 10 cars built here are for export to the EU and beyond
Jaguar/Landrover is building a plant in the Czech republic and already manufactures in Austria.
Thank you i stand corrected "
The JLR plant is in Slovakia.
In Austria the manufacturing is done by Magna Steyr. |
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"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?"
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg. |
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"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
and also made the UK shut down the coal industry
the guy was a bit crushed when I explained that EU didn’t stop the UK buying coal from Russia, Colombia and the USA (there in the EU right ???)
as it has been said Turkey are in the customs union and Ford had a good plant there so they moved the Transit, good deal for Ford
it was Maggie and co that knocked down the coal industry (and steel too) but everyone in Yorkshire seems to have forgotten that
(maybe when you vote Brexit you gain a selective memory)
and remember the car companies who don’t get a massive bung as compensation for being outside the EU will move to it
BMW (Rolls Royce and Mini)have a much under used plant in Austria
Nissan in plants in France, as well as USA & Russia
Toyota has plants in France, Czech Repubic,Slovakia
Honda has plants in Ghent , Aalst, Belgium
Peugeot (owner of Vauxhall) have moved out before, their old factory used now by Jaguar/Landrover
Tata ( Jaguar/Landrover) will take action if a bad deal hurts them
and if anyone says that they can stuff their cars and try to sell them elsewhere,they already do
8 out of every 10 cars built here are for export to the EU and beyond
Jaguar/Landrover is building a plant in the Czech republic and already manufactures in Austria.
Thank you i stand corrected
The JLR plant is in Slovakia.
In Austria the manufacturing is done by Magna Steyr."
i know Steyr very well, world famous for 4/6 and 8 wheel drive vehicles |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
and also made the UK shut down the coal industry
the guy was a bit crushed when I explained that EU didn’t stop the UK buying coal from Russia, Colombia and the USA (there in the EU right ???)
as it has been said Turkey are in the customs union and Ford had a good plant there so they moved the Transit, good deal for Ford
it was Maggie and co that knocked down the coal industry (and steel too) but everyone in Yorkshire seems to have forgotten that
(maybe when you vote Brexit you gain a selective memory)
and remember the car companies who don’t get a massive bung as compensation for being outside the EU will move to it
BMW (Rolls Royce and Mini)have a much under used plant in Austria
Nissan in plants in France, as well as USA & Russia
Toyota has plants in France, Czech Repubic,Slovakia
Honda has plants in Ghent , Aalst, Belgium
Peugeot (owner of Vauxhall) have moved out before, their old factory used now by Jaguar/Landrover
Tata ( Jaguar/Landrover) will take action if a bad deal hurts them
and if anyone says that they can stuff their cars and try to sell them elsewhere,they already do
8 out of every 10 cars built here are for export to the EU and beyond
Jaguar/Landrover is building a plant in the Czech republic and already manufactures in Austria.
Thank you i stand corrected
The JLR plant is in Slovakia.
In Austria the manufacturing is done by Magna Steyr."
My bad.
They are still locating production within the EU though which is the point in hand. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg. "
To be fair it’s not their HQ. They’re just creating a EU friendly version of their fund. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg.
To be fair it’s not their HQ. They’re just creating a EU friendly version of their fund. "
why would Somerset Capital management need a dublin office... after all the person who still owns 18.5% of the company... and draws a monthly wage from it, Jacob Rees Mogg, keeps telling people everything bad is "project fear"....
but... if it is project fear... you wouldn't need another office as eveything would still be able to be done out of london... right?????
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg.
To be fair it’s not their HQ. They’re just creating a EU friendly version of their fund. "
Exactly. SCM are not moving house. Their HQ is still in London.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg.
To be fair it’s not their HQ. They’re just creating a EU friendly version of their fund.
why would Somerset Capital management need a dublin office... after all the person who still owns 18.5% of the company... and draws a monthly wage from it, Jacob Rees Mogg, keeps telling people everything bad is "project fear"....
but... if it is project fear... you wouldn't need another office as eveything would still be able to be done out of london... right?????
"
SCM launched a new investment vehicle in Dublin amid concerns about being cut off from European investors. |
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"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg.
To be fair it’s not their HQ. They’re just creating a EU friendly version of their fund.
Exactly. SCM are not moving house. Their HQ is still in London.
"
Until a hard brexit |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Is Somerset Capital Management moving their HQ to Dublin?
Yes Somerset Capital Management has received approval from the Irish regulator in March
so they are moving house
and so is Legal & General Investment Management having recently opened an office in Dublin
Columbia Threadneedle is being domiciled in Luxembourg.
To be fair it’s not their HQ. They’re just creating a EU friendly version of their fund.
why would Somerset Capital management need a dublin office... after all the person who still owns 18.5% of the company... and draws a monthly wage from it, Jacob Rees Mogg, keeps telling people everything bad is "project fear"....
but... if it is project fear... you wouldn't need another office as eveything would still be able to be done out of london... right?????
SCM launched a new investment vehicle in Dublin amid concerns about being cut off from European investors."
so he is saying there should be no concerns .... but the business he owns are in effect covering their own arses
thats a bit like saying "do as i say, and not as i do!"........ |
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"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
"
The EU did actually help to facilitate the move of Ford transit van production from Southampton, UK, over to Turkey in 2013 with the loss of 500 UK jobs. The EU, or more precisely the European Investment Bank which is part of the EU institutions, approved an £80 million loan/grant in 2012 to a Turkish company called Ford Otosan, which helped to secure the deal for Turkey. So the EU is offering grants or loans with European taxpayers cash, to help non EU member countries like Turkey poach jobs from EU member countries. The move would not have happened without the EU loan. So much for being a member of the EU benefitting British business.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taxpayers-millions-fuel-ford-transit-move-to-turkey-sjsdcmsn23k |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
The EU did actually help to facilitate the move of Ford transit van production from Southampton, UK, over to Turkey in 2013 with the loss of 500 UK jobs. The EU, or more precisely the European Investment Bank which is part of the EU institutions, approved an £80 million loan/grant in 2012 to a Turkish company called Ford Otosan, which helped to secure the deal for Turkey. So the EU is offering grants or loans with European taxpayers cash, to help non EU member countries like Turkey poach jobs from EU member countries. The move would not have happened without the EU loan. So much for being a member of the EU benefitting British business.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taxpayers-millions-fuel-ford-transit-move-to-turkey-sjsdcmsn23k"
How? What money? |
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The EU is very similar to an empire. All empires fail because the seat of power (as we have observed) becomes too remote from the people - it causes friction and away it goes. It might be 2 years, 10 years, 50 years - it will fail.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The EU is very similar to an empire. All empires fail because the seat of power (as we have observed) becomes too remote from the people - it causes friction and away it goes. It might be 2 years, 10 years, 50 years - it will fail.
"
You mean like the British empire that people seem to think we still have. The EU isn't at all like an empire except in the heads of people who don't understand it. It's a collaboration of 28 countries, who all have a say in what happens. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
The EU did actually help to facilitate the move of Ford transit van production from Southampton, UK, over to Turkey in 2013 with the loss of 500 UK jobs. The EU, or more precisely the European Investment Bank which is part of the EU institutions, approved an £80 million loan/grant in 2012 to a Turkish company called Ford Otosan, which helped to secure the deal for Turkey. So the EU is offering grants or loans with European taxpayers cash, to help non EU member countries like Turkey poach jobs from EU member countries. The move would not have happened without the EU loan. So much for being a member of the EU benefitting British business.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taxpayers-millions-fuel-ford-transit-move-to-turkey-sjsdcmsn23k"
So you've found yet another thing to talk about rather than respond to any of the questions raised as a result of your previous confusion?
You didn't read past the pay-wall headline did you?
You have no idea what influence, if any, this had on Ford's decision to move. You also don't know what the loan was for. Neither do I.
Your implication is that EU institutions actively try to harm member states. Actively. To what end?
An £80 million loan in 2012 is a lot.
Is that more or less than the £450 million EIB loan to Ford UK in 2010?
How does that fit your narrative? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all).
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows? "
And the reform they want is?
And the worst case is? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all).
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows?
And the reform they want is?
And the worst case is? "
the reform, like the various flavours of brexit, is personal and varied.
The worst case would be no reform. So the Eu looks like it is today. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all).
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows?
And the reform they want is?
And the worst case is? the reform, like the various flavours of brexit, is personal and varied.
The worst case would be no reform. So the Eu looks like it is today. "
So when the remain campaign were saying we should stay in and reform the EU, no-one knew exactly what that meant? And there was no plan to reform? Just 'stay in' and 'reform'.
So the option to remain was complicated just like the option to leave. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all).
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows?
And the reform they want is?
And the worst case is? the reform, like the various flavours of brexit, is personal and varied.
The worst case would be no reform. So the Eu looks like it is today.
So when the remain campaign were saying we should stay in and reform the EU, no-one knew exactly what that meant? And there was no plan to reform? Just 'stay in' and 'reform'.
So the option to remain was complicated just like the option to leave. "
I’m not sure I ever said it wasn’t. Indeed I was supporting someone saying remainers were also voting for their version of remain and reform much like people who voted leave. The only difference is reform was working from a known position. Leave hasn’t got suck a starting point. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What a load of dross. Lets be blunt but face the truth. Neither the remain nor the leave had the slightest clue what they were doing.
Remainers did. They wanted to stay in.
Remain in what though? Many remainers said they wanted to stay in a 'reformed EU'?
What does a reformed EU look like?
What makes you think you could reform the EU in any meaningful way? (Considering David Cameron tried to reform the EU in his renegotiation before the referendum and he didn't get any meaningful reform at all).
I think this is fair. Some did vote on the belief the EU could be reformed. And that the reform would look like x y and z. However they knew the “worst case” if they were wrong. Whether this was factored in, who knows?
And the reform they want is?
And the worst case is? the reform, like the various flavours of brexit, is personal and varied.
The worst case would be no reform. So the Eu looks like it is today.
So when the remain campaign were saying we should stay in and reform the EU, no-one knew exactly what that meant? And there was no plan to reform? Just 'stay in' and 'reform'.
So the option to remain was complicated just like the option to leave. "
Reforming the EU was never a promise made.
Many people want reform but I, personally, don't know anybody who voted to remain on that expectation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m not sure how my post leads to your reply.... have I missed something ?
I inferred you thought some people voted leave because they thought it would reform the EU (and the UK could carry on as before).
I don't recall seeing "reform the EU" on the ballot paper.i meant they voted in, based on the belief the Eu could be reformed (from inside).
I realise whichever way you voted, it was with the unspoken understanding you were accepting a range of outcomes. But I don’t think everyone considered this. And the vote was never really painted this way.
People who voted to leave voted to leave.
There was no range, only two choices - leave or stay.
People who voted to leave are responsible for the UK leaving the EU.
End of.
I’m happy to be responsible for the UK leaving the EU, but frustrated that it is taking so long and that politicians are trying to dilute it.
We need out, now, and we don’t need a bloody deal. They will notice the money they have lost by losing us, and will be keen to bridge the deficit. Then they can talk about a deal.
the glaring and obvious issue with that as a strategy is that no one in their right mind would trust us in any future possible deals we wanted to enter into, and why would they..
i wouldn't trust a person who had reneged on a deal who then wanted to do another deal..
Reneged on a deal we were railroaded into, a deal that nobody asked us if we wanted. Other countries will understand this.
we wrote part of the terms of the deal, just makes us look a bit stupid and arrogant to say well yeah we know what the terms are we signed up to but we now don't think they should apply to us..
"
The Major govt “wrote part of the terms of the deal.” The people were not given any choice whatsoever. I doubt Thatcher would have ever made the ridiculous mistakes he made, and Maastricht was the first of many deals, treaties, or whatever else they are labelled. We have been deceived too many times, and now the utter bastards in the house of treason have put us between a massive rock and an equally horrible hard place.
We will get two choices, do everything the EU want us to do, or leave with no deal. My feeling is that we should take the second option, but not via another referendum. The politicians, media, and news mechanisms have had the best part of two years to brainwash the masses now. The result of the original ref has to stand, we have signed off on a50 and are only going to get a shit deal. Time to pick up the football and leave the arena... |
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"it’s funny how many leavers keep telling me that the EU were responsible for almost everything bad in the UK
I was told that the EU made Ford move out of the UK
The EU did actually help to facilitate the move of Ford transit van production from Southampton, UK, over to Turkey in 2013 with the loss of 500 UK jobs. The EU, or more precisely the European Investment Bank which is part of the EU institutions, approved an £80 million loan/grant in 2012 to a Turkish company called Ford Otosan, which helped to secure the deal for Turkey. So the EU is offering grants or loans with European taxpayers cash, to help non EU member countries like Turkey poach jobs from EU member countries. The move would not have happened without the EU loan. So much for being a member of the EU benefitting British business.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taxpayers-millions-fuel-ford-transit-move-to-turkey-sjsdcmsn23k"
is that like the bung that the government gave Nissan to set up here ?
were they guilty of taking away Japanese Jobs ??
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have been deceived too many times, and now the utter bastards in the house of treason have put us between a massive rock and an equally horrible hard place."
"The politicians, media, and news mechanisms have had the best part of two years to brainwash the masses now."
If we have been deceived so many times, how can you be sure leaving the EU is not a deceit? Indeed they’ve had a longer run at it than the two years post the vote !
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so he is saying there should be no concerns .... but the business he owns are in effect covering their own arses
thats a bit like saying "do as i say, and not as i do!"........"
Yov'e hit the nail ......on the head |
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