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How do Boris et al square it off
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Okay peeps, I know most people here see brexit as always being unachievable. Put those opinions to one side. Boris’ and DD resignation letters both seemed to say a good brexit could be achieve... and are resigning because the possible is being missed. Which got me pondering. I wonder why they think this is... ?
In theory the brexit argument should be in a position of strength.
It has the will of the people.
Their party had it in their manifesto.
Indeed 85% of votes went to parties with it in their manifesting
Their party seemed to be brexit leaning.
While the top two bods were remainers there were a fair few prominent leavers in the cabinet.
And the two most prominent remain campaigners are no longer MPs.
There’s no real opposition position against it.
Indeed the leader of the opposition is said to be on their side.
So what didn’t go well.
May became PM. But their brexit leaning party voted her in. Why ?
The GE. But why does this really reduce their position? If the will or the people was for brexit then you’d think they’d be voting out remain tories if anything. So while this may mean less MPs it should mean more brexit leaning which would reduce internal conflict.
The most I can get to is our political structure is such that the PM is more presidential in decision making than we first thought. Which given some of the arguments against the Eu is a worry.
So, put yourself in their shoes. Take it as read a good brexit can be achieved. What went wrong ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What does a good brexit look like?"
not for this thread to say. Its whatever DD and the others think it is. And it’s achievable. It’s not about discussing that. But why they (who believe it is possible) would square off why it is not being delivered.
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It's not being delivered because, no matter how you try and stitch it up, you simply can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
BoJo knows this, which is why he ducked the leadership two years ago and why he's getting out now. This way, when it all goes horribly wrong, he can blame May and parliament by saying they betrayed BREXIT but he didn't. He still thinks he has a shot at the top job. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"It's not being delivered because, no matter how you try and stitch it up, you simply can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
BoJo knows this, which is why he ducked the leadership two years ago and why he's getting out now. This way, when it all goes horribly wrong, he can blame May and parliament by saying they betrayed BREXIT but he didn't. He still thinks he has a shot at the top job."
Exactly. Both Davies and Johnson have realised that this is their ‘get out of jail free’ card and they have played it. They can walk away from the clusterfuck and if anyone tries to badmouth then they have a plausible excuse.
-Matt |
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"
So, put yourself in their shoes. Take it as read a good brexit can be achieved. What went wrong ?
"
Honestly thats like saying: "Take it as read that drink driving is ok, what caused him to crash the car".
Brexit doesnt mean anything. Its never been defined, it has no goals or structure. One person says it means this, another person says theyre wrong. Its also not a right/left issue so although Tories have a majority there are tory remainers and labour leavers.
There is no version of Brexit that has the backing of the majority of either the people or parliament. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What does a good brexit look like?"
What is a good Brexit,what is a bad brexit?
Nobody knows that is the point,it is what we make of it and how we react as people.It is down to us to make it work that is life.A good attitude and hard work and we will win.
I doubt however,if the modern generation understand these simple facts,all they know is how to moan,get depressed and think of themeselves |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What does a good brexit look like?What is a good Brexit,what is a bad brexit?
Nobody knows that is the point,it is what we make of it and how we react as people.It is down to us to make it work that is life.A good attitude and hard work and we will win.
I doubt however,if the modern generation understand these simple facts,all they know is how to moan,get depressed and think of themeselves"
Bloody kids these days, eh?
You should complain about them more, I don't believe anyone has ever down that before.
Scintillating stuff here, I can't wait for more. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What does a good brexit look like?What is a good Brexit,what is a bad brexit?
Nobody knows that is the point,it is what we make of it and how we react as people.It is down to us to make it work that is life.A good attitude and hard work and we will win.
I doubt however,if the modern generation understand these simple facts,all they know is how to moan,get depressed and think of themeselves"
couldnt the same have been said for staying in the Eu. If it’s all attitude and hard work.... |
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A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"What does a good brexit look like?What is a good Brexit,what is a bad brexit?
Nobody knows that is the point,it is what we make of it and how we react as people.It is down to us to make it work that is life.A good attitude and hard work and we will win.
I doubt however,if the modern generation understand these simple facts,all they know is how to moan,get depressed and think of themeselves"
You could say that about the older generation too. They just sit there sucking on their Daily Mail and complaining about those bloody foreigners down the doctor's office.
Yes, that was just as much a gross, and inaccurate generalisation as yours.
But considering the younger generations are going to be around on this planet longer than the older ones, and they overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU, there could be something there to listen to.
-Matt |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
"
"Money we save"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Oh c'mon it is mid-2018 now, you've had two years since the referendum to realise you've been told a bunch of lies about that by Bor..... oh... right... yeah. No wonder.
-Matt |
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"A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
"Money we save"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Oh c'mon it is mid-2018 now, you've had two years since the referendum to realise you've been told a bunch of lies about that by Bor..... oh... right... yeah. No wonder.
-Matt"
Even Theresa has said the nhs will be getting more than Corbyn has offered . So what exactly is so funny ? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
"Money we save"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Oh c'mon it is mid-2018 now, you've had two years since the referendum to realise you've been told a bunch of lies about that by Bor..... oh... right... yeah. No wonder.
-Matt
Even Theresa has said the nhs will be getting more than Corbyn has offered . So what exactly is so funny ? "
Yeah, from her magical money tree. It is the fact that two years later you still think that we are going to 'save' money in this fruitless exercise. We've already blown god knows how many tens of years of membership fees on it, and we haven't even left yet.
-Matt |
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"A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
"Money we save"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Oh c'mon it is mid-2018 now, you've had two years since the referendum to realise you've been told a bunch of lies about that by Bor..... oh... right... yeah. No wonder.
-Matt
Even Theresa has said the nhs will be getting more than Corbyn has offered . So what exactly is so funny ?
Yeah, from her magical money tree. It is the fact that two years later you still think that we are going to 'save' money in this fruitless exercise. We've already blown god knows how many tens of years of membership fees on it, and we haven't even left yet.
-Matt"
Yes it’s costing us money every day we procrastinate, but not tens of of years of membership fees . Far from it .
And the fact that if we play it right we will get to choose how we spend our money , means we will soon see the benefit of leaving , I hope .
Mind you with the way we seem to be going for a very soft option is a bit worrying , especially if we lose the chance to get good trade deals with the countries like the USA . ( as I said in the op ) |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
"Money we save"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Oh c'mon it is mid-2018 now, you've had two years since the referendum to realise you've been told a bunch of lies about that by Bor..... oh... right... yeah. No wonder.
-Matt
Even Theresa has said the nhs will be getting more than Corbyn has offered . So what exactly is so funny ?
Yeah, from her magical money tree. It is the fact that two years later you still think that we are going to 'save' money in this fruitless exercise. We've already blown god knows how many tens of years of membership fees on it, and we haven't even left yet.
-Matt
Yes it’s costing us money every day we procrastinate, but not tens of of years of membership fees . Far from it .
And the fact that if we play it right we will get to choose how we spend our money , means we will soon see the benefit of leaving , I hope .
Mind you with the way we seem to be going for a very soft option is a bit worrying , especially if we lose the chance to get good trade deals with the countries like the USA . ( as I said in the op ) "
Obviously it is very hard to calculate the effect due to the fall in economy due to Brexit, but one figure put it as £2 Billion a week. Regardless of what you think of that figure, we have already spent god knows what on fiscally shoring up the economy, and all the work to come up with the non-existent plan so far. Not to mention the opportunity cost of not being able to give anything else political oxygen at the moment.
As for "if we play it right we will get to choose how we spend our money". Yeah, we get to choose to underfund out NHS, we get to choose to under-invest in our infrastructure, etc. just like we could and did do before hand. No-one was stopping us underfunding things before, and no-one will stop us now.
But hey... because we leave the EU, brexiteers think that suddenly all those problems go away and our government is going to give it's magic money tree a few more shakes in the right direction and everything will be rosy!
-Matt |
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"A good Brexit would be one which left us the opportunity to strike a good trade deal independently with countries like America .
Theresa May’s version of a Brexit has fucked that up , and the sooner she leaves the better .
I hope Boris is preparing a takeover as I write , and then we can move forward with a good Brexit . One which tells the rest of Europe that we will no longer prop them up and give in to the whims and desires of leaders who know nothing about us .
One which use the money we save for the nhs and goes to those who need it the most . Not MEPs who sit in offices drawing up more stupid human rights crap .
A Brexit which will restore pride in being British , and one which will we will look back on and say we were glad we did it .
"
Boris couldn't run a bath let alone a country. The man's not interested in a good, bad or indifferent Brexit, he's only interested in gaining power for himself. He's a narcissist - no wonder Trump likes him so much. |
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I met boris once. It features among a list of notorious heckling incidents oops