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Russian brexit
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My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
"
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Politics dies not function anymore.
Like much in the UK from business to personal life. It's short term.
Quartely financial reporting or tonight's Twitter storm.
Strategy and long term planning and investment for future success are no longer a "thing".
Javed is going for PM. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I watched a press conference on the telly this evening.
Journalists asking dumb questions about how they could have missed locations in the previous clean-up.
The answer seemed obvious to me - they have not interviewed the person or persons who carried it out.
All the police seem to have is two sets of people falling ill and a pattern of their movement in the hours and days beforehand.
I do not think it helps at all when politicians become judge and jury during a criminal investigation.
I have yet to hear a detective point the finger in any direction - only politicians keen to grab a headline.
I have more confidence in a police officer giving a truthful account of what they know, and what they do not, than any politician's verdict.
A fair trial, if it involved suspects of Russian ethnicity, becomes virtually impossible. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs."
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok? |
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"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok? "
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe I misread the post, but I took it to be a case of until we have proof of the source, don’t double down on the original knee jerk reaction of it being Russia. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
"
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack. |
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"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack. "
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack.
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
"
I'm talking about highly trained and experienced civil servants and military personnel who came to a conclusion and provided that to ministers. |
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"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack.
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
I'm talking about highly trained and experienced civil servants and military personnel who came to a conclusion and provided that to ministers. "
Yes because it's highly evidenced how much regard the government takes of experts?
And secondly despite them being highly trained I have yet to see any evidence , that's one tiny shred that Russian government was responsible and that includes motive
Yet it is certainly valid counter evidence to note how ridiculous it would be to risk a major political incident just before they host a major world significant sporting event
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack.
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
I'm talking about highly trained and experienced civil servants and military personnel who came to a conclusion and provided that to ministers.
Yes because it's highly evidenced how much regard the government takes of experts?
And secondly despite them being highly trained I have yet to see any evidence , that's one tiny shred that Russian government was responsible and that includes motive
Yet it is certainly valid counter evidence to note how ridiculous it would be to risk a major political incident just before they host a major world significant sporting event
"
How many world cups have ever been cancelled in 3 or 4 months before the event? I'm no sports fan so you'll have to help me out here, but my guess would be a bug fat zero. So a major political incident would not, and has not, had any major impact on the world cup whatsoever, as far as I'm aware. But again, I'm no sports fan, so have you seen any negative impact on the World Cup? |
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What is most concerning, is the fact that novichok (apparently) degrades unless kept in specific lab conditions. It's been months since the first attack so, if this new case happened purely from coming into contact with remnants from back then, how strong was that shit that sent two more (untargeted) people to hospital, how much of it was there to begin with and, since the targeted ones survived, could it be a case of the attacker being incompetent or more sinister than we thought? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What is most concerning, is the fact that novichok (apparently) degrades unless kept in specific lab conditions. It's been months since the first attack so, if this new case happened purely from coming into contact with remnants from back then, how strong was that shit that sent two more (untargeted) people to hospital, how much of it was there to begin with and, since the targeted ones survived, could it be a case of the attacker being incompetent or more sinister than we thought?"
Do you have a source for the assertion that it needs to be kept under lab conditions? My understanding was that as a battlefield weapon it was fairly resilient, but I could very well be wrong. |
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I've read that it was designed to be easily made in the field, so if their army captured a fertilizer production facility it could be produced there. Thus not having to be made in a specialised lad and transported from the motherland.
This also brings into play the fact that whilst development was carried out in Russia, the chemical could have been produced anywhere in the world.
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"I've read that it was designed to be easily made in the field, so if their army captured a fertilizer production facility it could be produced there. Thus not having to be made in a specialised lad and transported from the motherland.
This also brings into play the fact that whilst development was carried out in Russia, the chemical could have been produced anywhere in the world.
"
Lab |
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"What is most concerning, is the fact that novichok (apparently) degrades unless kept in specific lab conditions. It's been months since the first attack so, if this new case happened purely from coming into contact with remnants from back then, how strong was that shit that sent two more (untargeted) people to hospital, how much of it was there to begin with and, since the targeted ones survived, could it be a case of the attacker being incompetent or more sinister than we thought?
Do you have a source for the assertion that it needs to be kept under lab conditions? My understanding was that as a battlefield weapon it was fairly resilient, but I could very well be wrong."
I saw it on tv. A panelist on one of the political discussion programs, either this morning or yesterday evening. I can't remember which one right now but I can try and go through them again (I record them to watch when back at home) if it'll help. I'm pretty sure it was a woman and she said something like "...it degrades (or its potency degrades) unless kept in specific lab conditions...". |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"What is most concerning, is the fact that novichok (apparently) degrades unless kept in specific lab conditions. It's been months since the first attack so, if this new case happened purely from coming into contact with remnants from back then, how strong was that shit that sent two more (untargeted) people to hospital, how much of it was there to begin with and, since the targeted ones survived, could it be a case of the attacker being incompetent or more sinister than we thought?
Do you have a source for the assertion that it needs to be kept under lab conditions? My understanding was that as a battlefield weapon it was fairly resilient, but I could very well be wrong.
I saw it on tv. A panelist on one of the political discussion programs, either this morning or yesterday evening. I can't remember which one right now but I can try and go through them again (I record them to watch when back at home) if it'll help. I'm pretty sure it was a woman and she said something like "...it degrades (or its potency degrades) unless kept in specific lab conditions..."."
Interesting  |
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The government is awash with conservatives who have severely limited moral integrity and many seemingly very stupid as well as narcissistic, meaning they are a risk to the safety and wellbeing of the country.
Individuals are behaving solely with the purpose of personal promotion. All criticism and measures should be via official channels and nothing without verifiable evidence. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack.
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
I'm talking about highly trained and experienced civil servants and military personnel who came to a conclusion and provided that to ministers. "
We've been here before.....
They told the government that they couldn't confirm the source...  |
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"My understanding was that as a battlefield weapon it was fairly resilient, but I could very well be wrong."
I would agree with you. It is most certainly a persistent agent designed as an area and asset fixer. I think there is much playing down of the significance of this. I doubt that our own government would use such a weapon as a means to distract its own population, but many powers have deployed banned weapons to gauge their effectiveness over many decades in Africa, Asia, Middle East and South America so I see no reason why we would not be used. In fact, I can see many reasons why we would be the perfect 'Developed World, major power' target.
Just my thoughts and musings. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok? "
What im bothered with is that there saying Russias the only place it could come from, after USSR fell, nuclear subs were up for sale and i wouldnt be surprised if some of this was leaked whenever, from there it cpuld have gotten anywhere. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
When the USSR collapsed, the state was bankrupt.
No money to pay any wages.
Lots of top-secret facilities being guarded by people who did not get paid for months and months.
The US soon stopped celebrating when it realised the huge risks.
Speculation for years that Iran got a bomb.
The US invested huge sums in securing and removing the most sensitive materials.
I doubt if nerve agents fell into that category.
I suspect an awful lot of stuff went missing in the chaos.
That said, I don't think this stuff has much of a lifespan.
The knowledge of how to make it will be out there, though.
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"That said, I don't think this stuff has much of a lifespan.
The knowledge of how to make it will be out there, though.
"
Yep, your ability to think seems flawed to me...
So you believe that chemical weapons have short shelf-life. You must know that we are still disposing of live chemical shell from WW 1 and 2. Maybe you can reconcile your beliefs and fact for me. Or are you talking about deployed lifespan? In which case I take it in your world 4 months (the time between the schiphol's being poisoned with novichok and Dawn Sturgess's exposure) as short. Maybe you would like to inform us of your definition of long?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack.
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
I'm talking about highly trained and experienced civil servants and military personnel who came to a conclusion and provided that to ministers.
Yes because it's highly evidenced how much regard the government takes of experts?
And secondly despite them being highly trained I have yet to see any evidence , that's one tiny shred that Russian government was responsible and that includes motive
Yet it is certainly valid counter evidence to note how ridiculous it would be to risk a major political incident just before they host a major world significant sporting event
"
I have been wondering about this as well. The Novichov thing happened at a time that could have, and maybe did, have negative consequences for Russia on the build up to a massive international event they were hosting. It doesn’t make sense.
More likely that some ex kgb enemy of Putin was behind this. There have been so many accusations against Russia recently, yet they just seem to be carrying on as usual.
The lack of real proof is a major factor, in my belief that they are not responsible... |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"My opinion is brexit is going so badly and has almost zero hope of improving that the UK government is trying to hide the cluster fuck by planting nerve agents and then blaming the Russians , wtf
Seriously randomly throwing out comments suggesting Russia is treating the UK as
BBC,
"Mr Javid accused Russia of using Britain as a "dumping ground for poison" after the second incident involving the nerve agent"
Stupid comment , maybe Russia is responsible however it is completely irresponsible to be throwing childish pathetic and incendiary comments to the world's media
I swear to God none of these Minsters have been told about articulating one's speech correctly.
Just, do they bloody think about what they're going to say, its implications, and the repercussions from it - and do they even assess the evidence.
In the light of what has happened, if I were the PM I would be telling all Civil Servants and MP's to not say anything which cannot be confirmed. Most people understand that something which might be complex should be treated as such, don't just go in waving a burning torch of accusations. FFs.
Well rightly or wrongly, the government came to the conclusion that the first attack came from the Kremlin. Are you suggesting that this might be a completely unrelated batch of of Novichok?
I think they are connected , not sure any evidence exists for the government or anyone to conclude Russia did anything !
Well the government and other countries around the world have come to that conclusion on the first incident. As you say, it's highly likely that this 2nd incident is connected to the first, therefore, if the Russians did the first, they likely are also responsible for the 2nd. That said, it sounds as though the 2nd incident is an unintended consequence, rather than a targeted attack.
Are we discussing the same government who thinks brexit is a good idea ? And you seriously trust their judgment ? Hardly objective critical thinking ?
I'm talking about highly trained and experienced civil servants and military personnel who came to a conclusion and provided that to ministers.
Yes because it's highly evidenced how much regard the government takes of experts?
And secondly despite them being highly trained I have yet to see any evidence , that's one tiny shred that Russian government was responsible and that includes motive
Yet it is certainly valid counter evidence to note how ridiculous it would be to risk a major political incident just before they host a major world significant sporting event
I have been wondering about this as well. The Novichov thing happened at a time that could have, and maybe did, have negative consequences for Russia on the build up to a massive international event they were hosting. It doesn’t make sense.
More likely that some ex kgb enemy of Putin was behind this. There have been so many accusations against Russia recently, yet they just seem to be carrying on as usual.
The lack of real proof is a major factor, in my belief that they are not responsible..."
...or that they were carried out by a state espionage service who's actual purpose is to carry out covert operations that cannot be traced.
There will never be real proof unless they are spectacularly incompetent. That is the reason agencies like this exist.
All there will ever be is a credible theory.
You must know this. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The guy betrayed 300+ colleagues by giving British intelligence their names as secret agents.
How many of them spent the last 15 years in a prison somewhere while someone they see as a traitor lived very comfortably courtesy of the British taxpayer?
That is where I would start looking. The list of people with a reason for revenge is at least 300 long.
If the state wanted to eliminate this cretin, it had every opporyunity to do so when he was doing time in Siberia.
It did not, which makes wonder what new mischief he was up to, assuming it wasn’t one of those agents he sold out for an envelope stuffed with UK taxes. |
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"The guy betrayed 300+ colleagues by giving British intelligence their names as secret agents.
How many of them spent the last 15 years in a prison somewhere while someone they see as a traitor lived very comfortably courtesy of the British taxpayer?
That is where I would start looking. The list of people with a reason for revenge is at least 300 long.
If the state wanted to eliminate this cretin, it had every opporyunity to do so when he was doing time in Siberia.
It did not, which makes wonder what new mischief he was up to, assuming it wasn’t one of those agents he sold out for an envelope stuffed with UK taxes."
.
You know when the FBI payed Christopher Steele for his dodgy dossier on trump that was paid for by the Clintons, well Steele got his information from various "Kremlin insiders", that's political talk for connected spies and ex spies, of course thanks to that dodgy dossier the entire American secret service and law enforcement agencies got to spy on there own democratically elected president and we now know that many many of these "unbiased" agents were sending secret messages to each other declaring there intent to "never let that man take office".
But according to mainstream news it's all Russian bots and that evil Putin guy that's subduing democracy.  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The guy betrayed 300+ colleagues by giving British intelligence their names as secret agents.
How many of them spent the last 15 years in a prison somewhere while someone they see as a traitor lived very comfortably courtesy of the British taxpayer?
That is where I would start looking. The list of people with a reason for revenge is at least 300 long.
If the state wanted to eliminate this cretin, it had every opporyunity to do so when he was doing time in Siberia.
It did not, which makes wonder what new mischief he was up to, assuming it wasn’t one of those agents he sold out for an envelope stuffed with UK taxes..
You know when the FBI payed Christopher Steele for his dodgy dossier on trump that was paid for by the Clintons, well Steele got his information from various "Kremlin insiders", that's political talk for connected spies and ex spies, of course thanks to that dodgy dossier the entire American secret service and law enforcement agencies got to spy on there own democratically elected president and we now know that many many of these "unbiased" agents were sending secret messages to each other declaring there intent to "never let that man take office".
But according to mainstream news it's all Russian bots and that evil Putin guy that's subduing democracy. "
Interestingly, the initial investigation into the Trump was begun by Republican media firm, Washington Free Beacon. They hired a company called Fusion who then hired Steele.
This was picked up by the Democratic campaign including the Clintons.
The FBI started their investigation whilst Trump was an unelected candidate though.
Paid for information is not necessarily untrue information. If it credible, and there is plenty we haven't seen, there is no reason not to continue the investigation.
As ever, if you act like a dick, people aren't going to be predisposed to be nice to you. If the agents exchanging those messages actually fabricated or ignored evidence that's a serious matter. I don't believe there is anything to suggest that they did. They are also no longer on the case.
I don't see where American democracy has been "subdued" by the FBI or Mueller. Please explain.
Why should the investigation not continue? It either finds evidence or falls on its face. Job done either way. |
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"The guy betrayed 300+ colleagues by giving British intelligence their names as secret agents.
How many of them spent the last 15 years in a prison somewhere while someone they see as a traitor lived very comfortably courtesy of the British taxpayer?
That is where I would start looking. The list of people with a reason for revenge is at least 300 long.
If the state wanted to eliminate this cretin, it had every opporyunity to do so when he was doing time in Siberia.
It did not, which makes wonder what new mischief he was up to, assuming it wasn’t one of those agents he sold out for an envelope stuffed with UK taxes..
You know when the FBI payed Christopher Steele for his dodgy dossier on trump that was paid for by the Clintons, well Steele got his information from various "Kremlin insiders", that's political talk for connected spies and ex spies, of course thanks to that dodgy dossier the entire American secret service and law enforcement agencies got to spy on there own democratically elected president and we now know that many many of these "unbiased" agents were sending secret messages to each other declaring there intent to "never let that man take office".
But according to mainstream news it's all Russian bots and that evil Putin guy that's subduing democracy.
Interestingly, the initial investigation into the Trump was begun by Republican media firm, Washington Free Beacon. They hired a company called Fusion who then hired Steele.
This was picked up by the Democratic campaign including the Clintons.
The FBI started their investigation whilst Trump was an unelected candidate though.
Paid for information is not necessarily untrue information. If it credible, and there is plenty we haven't seen, there is no reason not to continue the investigation.
As ever, if you act like a dick, people aren't going to be predisposed to be nice to you. If the agents exchanging those messages actually fabricated or ignored evidence that's a serious matter. I don't believe there is anything to suggest that they did. They are also no longer on the case.
I don't see where American democracy has been "subdued" by the FBI or Mueller. Please explain.
Why should the investigation not continue? It either finds evidence or falls on its face. Job done either way."
.
Oh I'm more than happy to carry on the investigation, it's found money laundering (which I'm against) and lying under oath (which I'm against), of course it's not found anything what it got a fisa agreement for which was collusion (which is probably because the dossier is full of shit mostly) that's what happens when you pay somebody for information, they tell you what they think you want to hear (much like waterboarding, which I'm against).
If you can't see where democracy is being subdued then as you say on another thread la la la la la la la la.
I can't help you |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The guy betrayed 300+ colleagues by giving British intelligence their names as secret agents.
How many of them spent the last 15 years in a prison somewhere while someone they see as a traitor lived very comfortably courtesy of the British taxpayer?
That is where I would start looking. The list of people with a reason for revenge is at least 300 long.
If the state wanted to eliminate this cretin, it had every opporyunity to do so when he was doing time in Siberia.
It did not, which makes wonder what new mischief he was up to, assuming it wasn’t one of those agents he sold out for an envelope stuffed with UK taxes..
You know when the FBI payed Christopher Steele for his dodgy dossier on trump that was paid for by the Clintons, well Steele got his information from various "Kremlin insiders", that's political talk for connected spies and ex spies, of course thanks to that dodgy dossier the entire American secret service and law enforcement agencies got to spy on there own democratically elected president and we now know that many many of these "unbiased" agents were sending secret messages to each other declaring there intent to "never let that man take office".
But according to mainstream news it's all Russian bots and that evil Putin guy that's subduing democracy.
Interestingly, the initial investigation into the Trump was begun by Republican media firm, Washington Free Beacon. They hired a company called Fusion who then hired Steele.
This was picked up by the Democratic campaign including the Clintons.
The FBI started their investigation whilst Trump was an unelected candidate though.
Paid for information is not necessarily untrue information. If it credible, and there is plenty we haven't seen, there is no reason not to continue the investigation.
As ever, if you act like a dick, people aren't going to be predisposed to be nice to you. If the agents exchanging those messages actually fabricated or ignored evidence that's a serious matter. I don't believe there is anything to suggest that they did. They are also no longer on the case.
I don't see where American democracy has been "subdued" by the FBI or Mueller. Please explain.
Why should the investigation not continue? It either finds evidence or falls on its face. Job done either way..
Oh I'm more than happy to carry on the investigation, it's found money laundering (which I'm against) and lying under oath (which I'm against), of course it's not found anything what it got a fisa agreement for which was collusion (which is probably because the dossier is full of shit mostly) that's what happens when you pay somebody for information, they tell you what they think you want to hear (much like waterboarding, which I'm against).
If you can't see where democracy is being subdued then as you say on another thread la la la la la la la la.
I can't help you "
Has it been motivated in part because people dislike Trump in a an amazing way? Probably. It's certainly proven that that Trump has riven his country.
Will it find a link between the Trump campaign and a foreign power? It already has. Enough to prove collusion? Don't know.
Subdue democracy?
Bring it under control? Force it under control?
I don't think that any of this is trying to do that, nor even subvert it.
That's hyperbole.
It's an investigation into what is apparently credible enough evidence to warrant it. I haven't seen the contents of "the dossier" and certainly not the rest of the evidence so I'm not willing to say that it's full of shit. |
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