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U.K. Tax Rises
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
It seems inevitable that the U.K. is going to have to make some tough decisions in the near future in order to pay recently made NHS commitments as well as Edmonds coming from the Home Office for Policing and the MoD for defence.
Leaked documents (Independent) suggest that the fuel duty cap is about to be removed and alcohol and tobacco duty significantly raised to make some inroads into the NHS commitments.
My question though is this... is it not time to look at more imaginative solutions to this problem rather than beating the same old drum that annoys ordinary people more than anyone else?
What do you think of this?.., We all know that multi nationals are getting away with their tax liabilities and so I have thought for years that there ought to be a point of sale, transactional tax. Let’s say it is a 2% tax of which 1% goes to the local authority of the place where the transaction takes place and 1% goes to the state. So every transaction that takes place in this country is geo recorded electronically (it is anyway) and the tax is deducted at source (like VAT). The Tax can be introduced in different formats according to the type of seller for example... private individual, U.K. registered Company, international private individual, international company etc - the tax could also be scaled according to how the seller reports other taxes like VAT and Corporation Tax and whether the business is customer facing or electronic.
I just think that the current Corporation Tax concept is no longer fit for purpose in the modern world and a transaction tax that benefits the local economy where the buyer actually lives will go some way to redressing the tax disadvantages that local businesses now have when faced with Smazon and other internet businesses.
Not perfect - but a draft concept - work in progress as they say. |
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Multinationals will always find loopholes, they’ll pay for the best accountants. Instead of raising taxes maybe have a look at the money we waste. Raising taxes punishes those who do well. I know people will disagree with this but I’d lower our foreign aid budget. The NHS is brilliant but it’s not run properly, the amount of money wasted is unbelievable. We’ll all have different opinions on what the best solution is but we’ll never all agree cause deep down a humans instinct is self preservation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems inevitable that the U.K. is going to have to make some tough decisions in the near future in order to pay recently made NHS commitments as well as Edmonds coming from the Home Office for Policing and the MoD for defence.
Leaked documents (Independent) suggest that the fuel duty cap is about to be removed and alcohol and tobacco duty significantly raised to make some inroads into the NHS commitments.
My question though is this... is it not time to look at more imaginative solutions to this problem rather than beating the same old drum that annoys ordinary people more than anyone else?
What do you think of this?.., We all know that multi nationals are getting away with their tax liabilities and so I have thought for years that there ought to be a point of sale, transactional tax. Let’s say it is a 2% tax of which 1% goes to the local authority of the place where the transaction takes place and 1% goes to the state. So every transaction that takes place in this country is geo recorded electronically (it is anyway) and the tax is deducted at source (like VAT). The Tax can be introduced in different formats according to the type of seller for example... private individual, U.K. registered Company, international private individual, international company etc - the tax could also be scaled according to how the seller reports other taxes like VAT and Corporation Tax and whether the business is customer facing or electronic.
I just think that the current Corporation Tax concept is no longer fit for purpose in the modern world and a transaction tax that benefits the local economy where the buyer actually lives will go some way to redressing the tax disadvantages that local businesses now have when faced with Smazon and other internet businesses.
Not perfect - but a draft concept - work in progress as they say."
Nice idea, however, this or any other move would be likely to be sabotaged by those in government who have their own personal interests or their friends have (chum-ocracy), certainly the tories anyway.
Couldnt help chuckle at the thought they are looking towards the ordinary people rather than the ranks of the rich.. As usual
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"Multinationals will always find loopholes, they’ll pay for the best accountants. Instead of raising taxes maybe have a look at the money we waste. Raising taxes punishes those who do well. I know people will disagree with this but I’d lower our foreign aid budget. The NHS is brilliant but it’s not run properly, the amount of money wasted is unbelievable. We’ll all have different opinions on what the best solution is but we’ll never all agree cause deep down a humans instinct is self preservation. "
A financial transactions tax is an EU idea that Brussels has been suggesting to put on the city of London for a few years now, as if the EU don't bleed enough money out of us already. The idea has always been rejected by the UK as it would damage the city of London, just like Corbynomics a financial transactions tax would see companies moving their business and capital elsewhere.
I agree with you the best way to raise some extra money for NHS, police and the armed forces would be to slash the bloated Foreign aid budget. Slashing the foreign aid budget would be a popular choice amongst voters as opinion polls have consistently shown most people think it's too much and if the Conservative party had put it in their general election manifesto I think It could have been a popular vote winner that would have given them a majority outright and they would have attracted more of the ukip vote than they did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Multinationals will always find loopholes, they’ll pay for the best accountants. Instead of raising taxes maybe have a look at the money we waste. Raising taxes punishes those who do well. I know people will disagree with this but I’d lower our foreign aid budget. The NHS is brilliant but it’s not run properly, the amount of money wasted is unbelievable. We’ll all have different opinions on what the best solution is but we’ll never all agree cause deep down a humans instinct is self preservation.
A financial transactions tax is an EU idea that Brussels has been suggesting to put on the city of London for a few years now, as if the EU don't bleed enough money out of us already. The idea has always been rejected by the UK as it would damage the city of London, just like Corbynomics a financial transactions tax would see companies moving their business and capital elsewhere.
I agree with you the best way to raise some extra money for NHS, police and the armed forces would be to slash the bloated Foreign aid budget. Slashing the foreign aid budget would be a popular choice amongst voters as opinion polls have consistently shown most people think it's too much and if the Conservative party had put it in their general election manifesto I think It could have been a popular vote winner that would have given them a majority outright and they would have attracted more of the ukip vote than they did. "
If we slashed foreign aid completely would this even make a dent in the extra spending required ? |
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"Multinationals will always find loopholes, they’ll pay for the best accountants. "
Exactly (unfortunately).
" (...) We’ll all have different opinions on what the best solution is but we’ll never all agree cause deep down a humans instinct is self preservation. "
... except a rich human's instict, which is greed instead. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.  |
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"Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount. If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples. "
So no healthcare for children, or do we bring back child labour? And no healthcare for those who have not paid in your set amount, so no healthcare for the poor, you know the ones who are in full time work and still require benefits.
The Tories will be proud of you! No need to privatise healthcare with Bob in charge! He has a plan for it to be a service paid for by taxes(that all pay) but only available to those who have the spare money to buy into the scheme. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples. "
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up."
I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare. "
But specifically nuclear weapons, what system is more up to date than trident and CASD with MIRV? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare.
But specifically nuclear weapons, what system is more up to date than trident and CASD with MIRV? "
If you want to keep nukes fine ,just don't place them in a submarine that will be easily detected in the very near future. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare.
But specifically nuclear weapons, what system is more up to date than trident and CASD with MIRV?
If you want to keep nukes fine ,just don't place them in a submarine that will be easily detected in the very near future."
Right, so where do you want to keep them? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare.
But specifically nuclear weapons, what system is more up to date than trident and CASD with MIRV?
If you want to keep nukes fine ,just don't place them in a submarine that will be easily detected in the very near future.
Right, so where do you want to keep them? "
I don't want to keep them you do.. Maybe space would be the most effective stealthy location for you and your weapons.
It looks like the US are about to get a space force to deal with "space Isis". The weaponisation of space seems a logical route for us |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
Like there have been no "terrorist" attrocities recently on foot of or in retaliation for our actions overseas?
I use "terrorist" in a very liberal sense given that people like Nelson Mandela were once labelled as such. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare.
But specifically nuclear weapons, what system is more up to date than trident and CASD with MIRV?
If you want to keep nukes fine ,just don't place them in a submarine that will be easily detected in the very near future.
Right, so where do you want to keep them?
I don't want to keep them you do.. Maybe space would be the most effective stealthy location for you and your weapons.
It looks like the US are about to get a space force to deal with "space Isis". The weaponisation of space seems a logical route for us "
An F-15 successfully shot down a satellite in 1985, so no, keeping nuclear weapons in space is not a good idea.
So, I'll ask again, if a CASD with MIRV is outdated, what is the state of the art today? What country has the best nuclear weapons and what is the best delivery system if not the one used by the UK & US?
I'm asking because you specifically said that Trident is outdated and irrelevant, you didn't say that nuclear weapons were, you were specific about a particular program. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would,Increase the tax on anyone on over 80k.Scrap trident its irrelevant outdated technology .Reduce the benefits for all ,young and old.Go after multinationals,trickle down economics has been a lie.Only allow access to the NHS if you've worked and paid in a set amount.If you live your life on benefits and are able to work you don't get health care .Simples.
In what way is trident outdated technology?
What is a better, achievable, delivery method than a continuous at sea deterrent with multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles?
You can say you don't believe we should have a nuclear deterrent, but if you are going to say it's irrelevant and out of date, I'm going to ask you to back that up. I am against us having nuclear weapons.
Its out dated as it's a cold war weapon in a cyber age.The software it runs on is antiquated.Many retired military generals agree with me and would rather the money spent elsewhere.Weve had this argument before and you didn't persuade me it was needed.I could talk about the latest drone technology that will be coming on line in the next few years.Youve heard all this before so it's pointless as we disagree about the future of warfare. "
Generals agree
Not Admirals
We are in NATO so we could just give up Trident and hide under someone else's nuclear umberela but that is so hypocritical! !!! No nukes apart from someone else's nukes !!!!!
Any money save would need to be redirected to conventional force s !!!! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ireland, and many other of our European neighbours have no such defence systems and don't seem to be regularly nuked as a result?"
I don't have a problem with the argument that we shouldn't have nuclear weapons, but what really "grinds my gears" is when people are lazy with language and say things like 'trident is outdated', if they say that, then I want to know what system is more up-to-date. |
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"I am against us having nuclear weapons.
"
So I guess that means your for what we had before...
To be clear that means your pro a world where between the wholesale introduction of the Vickers Machine-gun in about 1900 and 1945 we had an accepted 85 MILLION confirmed killed in wars and after the first use of an atomic bomb in warfare in 1945 to the year 2000 20 million killed in wars...
Well I guess your way helps reduce overpopulation but to be honest I would much rather use birth control. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ireland, and many other of our European neighbours have no such defence systems and don't seem to be regularly nuked as a result?
I don't have a problem with the argument that we shouldn't have nuclear weapons, but what really "grinds my gears" is when people are lazy with language and say things like 'trident is outdated', if they say that, then I want to know what system is more up-to-date."
It's quite possible all other delivery methods will become obsolete as anti missle technology and drones and cyber warfare progresses.Much like the battleships of the past became obsolete over time.What replaced the battle ship?.It wasn't a different battleship You seem to be thinking that there must be a better delivery method if I say trident is obsolete.I doubt you can emnvision a world we're they are obsolete
.Nuclear warfare wont be the baddest weapon this century and throwing all your eggs into the trident basket is a mistake. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ireland, and many other of our European neighbours have no such defence systems and don't seem to be regularly nuked as a result?
I don't have a problem with the argument that we shouldn't have nuclear weapons, but what really "grinds my gears" is when people are lazy with language and say things like 'trident is outdated', if they say that, then I want to know what system is more up-to-date.
It's quite possible all other delivery methods will become obsolete as anti missle technology and drones and cyber warfare progresses.Much like the battleships of the past became obsolete over time.What replaced the battle ship?.It wasn't a different battleship You seem to be thinking that there must be a better delivery method if I say trident is obsolete.I doubt you can emnvision a world we're they are obsolete
.Nuclear warfare wont be the baddest weapon this century and throwing all your eggs into the trident basket is a mistake."
That's why we have conventional forces too. 
So what you meant to say was that nuclear weapons are outdated, rather than specifically Trident? |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"The point is that neither nuclear nor conventional forces are much use against cyber attacks.
"
Or against bombs in public places/ planted on transport/ imowing pedestrians down with vehicles or even just a simple stabbing spree. |
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"The point is that neither nuclear nor conventional forces are much use against cyber attacks.
Or against bombs in public places/ planted on transport/ imowing pedestrians down with vehicles or even just a simple stabbing spree."
That is terrorism, not warfare. Totally different. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"The point is that neither nuclear nor conventional forces are much use against cyber attacks.
Or against bombs in public places/ planted on transport/ imowing pedestrians down with vehicles or even just a simple stabbing spree.
That is terrorism, not warfare. Totally different."
Tell that to Isis Al Quaeda etc... |
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"The point is that neither nuclear nor conventional forces are much use against cyber attacks.
Or against bombs in public places/ planted on transport/ imowing pedestrians down with vehicles or even just a simple stabbing spree.
That is terrorism, not warfare. Totally different.
Tell that to Isis Al Quaeda etc..."
I think that they both readily accept that they are terrorist organisations! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Trident is a tool.Is it the right tool for the 21st century.?
Does it deal with any of the real and present threats of this century.?
I don't think it does,and by that reasoning I believe it to be obsolete. |
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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago
the right frame of mind -London |
"
I think that they both readily accept that they are terrorist organisations!"
You may also have missed their war against the infidels. I am also curious as to what the hell we were doing in Afghanistan and Iraq if we weren't having a war? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"No they are not! Conventional forces are soldiers using conventional weapons fighting an army that is ascertained and using conventional weapons against them!"
You have conventional forces, nuclear forces, and special forces. Cyber falls into conventional. That said, any cyber attack against the UK is likely to target civilian infrastructure, not military, the military would still be able to respond. If you think cyber is now the defining pinnacle of military achievement, then why are soldiers still shooting at each other with rifles in a conflicts all around the world? Including those of the US and russia |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How exactly can the military respond when they attack a private company's servers, such as a bank or airline's computers?
Especially when we don't know who "they" is, or where they are located!
"
Why don't you find out, rather than making yourself look daft?
Also, perhaps consider if an attack on Steve's kebab van's website requires a military response, and if so, what would be proportional. Perhaps you thing 16 Air Assualt Brigade should parachute into Red Square in response? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"You're the one who looks daft.
Who hit the NHS and crippled the computers?
And where did we send the army?
"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/13/nhs-cyber-attack-everything-need-know-biggest-ransomware-offensive/
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And the article doesn't say who the attackers were, or which country they were even in.
And of course we did nothing about it and we didn't send the army anywhere as you wrongly claimed, that is why you are stupid. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"And the article doesn't say who the attackers were, or which country they were even in.
And of course we did nothing about it and we didn't send the army anywhere as you wrongly claimed, that is why you are stupid."
You're got great at reading are you? I'm gonna guess you didn't excel in academia, would I be right? |
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"And the article doesn't say who the attackers were, or which country they were even in.
And of course we did nothing about it and we didn't send the army anywhere as you wrongly claimed, that is why you are stupid.
You're got great at reading are you? I'm gonna guess you didn't excel in academia, would I be right? "
Well I do have a degree and 2 post grad qualifications in a proper subject, from a proper university, so maybe you could show me in that DT article where the culprits are identified and the country and what our response was, and specifically where we sent the army?
And your qualifications are? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"And the article doesn't say who the attackers were, or which country they were even in.
And of course we did nothing about it and we didn't send the army anywhere as you wrongly claimed, that is why you are stupid.
You're got great at reading are you? I'm gonna guess you didn't excel in academia, would I be right?
Well I do have a degree and 2 post grad qualifications in a proper subject, from a proper university, so maybe you could show me in that DT article where the culprits are identified and the country and what our response was, and specifically where we sent the army?
And your qualifications are? "
"A cyber gang - called Shadow Brokers - is being blamed for the hack"  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"So, no one knows for sure. No one knows where they are from or where they are located. There was no response and no army sent.
And where does the article say any of those things happened?"
No one knows? Are you sure about that? You think GCHQ, the military and the police tell journalists everything? You're posts get funnier and funnier! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"This is the link that you sent me
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/13/nhs-cyber-attack-everything-need-know-biggest-ransomware-offensive/
Where does it name anyone?"
"A cyber gang - called Shadow Brokers - is being blamed for the hack." That's a direct quote from the article. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is the link that you sent me
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/13/nhs-cyber-attack-everything-need-know-biggest-ransomware-offensive/
Where does it name anyone?"
scroll down. Keep going. And some more. Just underneath the big red text which says “who was behind the attack?”
(I really hope you have us both on a point of semantics to teach me to speed read!) |
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