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The end of the normal world order as we know it
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
It seems pretty clear to me that Donald Trump is on a mission to completely change the world order as we have known it since the end of WW2.
The clues are not that hard to see. He admires Dutarte, Putin and Kim Jong Un and he doesn’t like Trudeau, Merkel, the EU, TPP and NAFTA. He seems determined to disrupt the normal functioning of the EU and indeed he is even questioning the US continued participation in NATO. His tariffs have unsettled traditional and reliable trading partners and allies and have even started to detrimentally affect US businesses.
I think that it is fair to say that he is ideologically driven and there is a great risk that his actions will completely change the world that we live in.
Question is... will that change be for the better or for for worse? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs "
Seeing as Trump is actively alienating allies and destroying treaties, while cozying up to fascists the idea that "this was happening anyway" is objectively wrong. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs "
Yes -it is what I was thinking. Why the patronising attitude?
It makes me realise that we (the U.K.) needs alliances away from the US more than ever. Trump needs sidelining to protect the USA and to protect the ROW from Trump. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs
Yes -it is what I was thinking. Why the patronising attitude?
It makes me realise that we (the U.K.) needs alliances away from the US more than ever. Trump needs sidelining to protect the USA and to protect the ROW from Trump."
Sorry for sounding patronising but the exact same things were said on tv earlier |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs
Yes -it is what I was thinking. Why the patronising attitude?
It makes me realise that we (the U.K.) needs alliances away from the US more than ever. Trump needs sidelining to protect the USA and to protect the ROW from Trump.
Sorry for sounding patronising but the exact same things were said on tv earlier "
I am watching Duran Duran on BBC4 and I just read an article about Trumps news conference earlier today and it got me thinking.
Also, you are relatively new on here so you won’t know that I have a couple of business interests in the US so I am particularly aware of events “over there” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What Trump is doing is really simple, he is resetting the clock to 1939 but with one major difference...
The USA and Germany are trading places."
Well, there's an argument to be made that he's going back a little bit further back than that.
"
Papen's economic policies, which were all passed by Article 48, were to sharply cut the payments offered by the unemployment insurance fund, subject all jobless Germans seeking unemployment insurance to a very strict means test, had wages drastically lowered (including those reached by collective bargaining) while bringing in very generous tax cuts to corporations and the rich.[100] Papen argued that lowering taxes on the well off and corporations would encourage them to spend and create jobs; that lowering wages would encourage businesses to hire and reducing unemployment insurance would force the jobless (whom Papen often implied were just lazy people who didn't want to work) to find work; and thus alleviate the effects of the Great Depression.[101] As 1932 was the worst year of the Great Depression with joblessness at an all-time high, Papen's economic policies of favoring the rich while punishing the poor enraged ordinary Germans, making him into Germany's most hated man.[101] Papen reveled in his unpopularity and took a great deal of pleasure in taunting and baiting his critics as he enjoyed provoking people.[102] Papen's thesis that lowering wages would make employers more likely to hire and less likely to fire employees was not a popular one as he was widely viewed as engaging in "one-sided catering" to big business.[103]
"
Sound kinda familiar? That's Franz von Papen, the guy who was chancellor before Hitler, and even served as Hitler's Vice chancellor until the night of the long knives.
There's a case to be made that Trump is our von Papen, prepping the way for someone just as cruel and evil as Trump, but actually competent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What Trump is doing is really simple, he is resetting the clock to 1939 but with one major difference...
The USA and Germany are trading places."
I think that comparison is a bit hyperbolic, but he is definitely keen, or just blindly perusing a pre/immediately post war Nationalist economic model for America.
I can respect he's just doing what he told his voters he'd do.
/but bluntly he's not going to get the full economic model of China's industrial strategy and American investors to change without compromise.
In thinking he can get it all his own ay he'll likely hurt the global working and middle class in many ways and that's likely to push more people to the hard left ad right fringes . |
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"I think that comparison is a bit hyperbolic, but he is definitely keen, or just blindly perusing a pre/immediately post war Nationalist economic model for America.
I can respect he's just doing what he told his voters he'd do.
/but bluntly he's not going to get the full economic model of China's industrial strategy and American investors to change without compromise.
In thinking he can get it all his own ay he'll likely hurt the global working and middle class in many ways and that's likely to push more people to the hard left ad right fringes ."
Normally I would be congratulating you for spotting my use of hyperbole. But unfortunately in this case I was being quite mater of fact in my post. Just to be clear, I justify my post as follows:
1. The Nazis used clever manipulation of a highly divided country to come to power, Trump did the same.
2. As soon as in power the Nazis started to undermine the free press claiming any negative stories were anti Nazi propaganda and the journalist were the enemies of the people. Just listen to Trump's alternatives facts and the false news of failing...
3. The Nazis marginalised Jews, Gypsies and any that opposed them turning them into objects of hate. Trump is doing the same with Mexicans and any who oppose him.
4, The Nazis filled the judicial system with Nazi judges. So far Trump has appointed 47 federal judges and has nominated a further 99 who are awaiting Senate confirmation. (As against Obama appointing a total of 329 in 8 years).
5. The Nazis introduced internment without trial of those it turned into 'Untermensch' and used forcible separation of families as part of that policy tool. What do you think ICE is doing?
6. Hitler continually urged his followers to use violence against any who opposed him. Trump does the same.
7. Hitler was attracted to and allied himself with authoritarian militaristic dictators to form what we now refer to as the Axis powers. Who is it that Trump is constantly praising and looking to ally with?
At what point do we start screaming 'TRUMP IS HITLER Mk2!'? Do we really have to wait for him to re-brand the Secret Service (who now get to guard all members of the Trump administration to make sure that they can eat out and shop without being subject to public demonstrations) and form an SS and have them goosestep down Pennsylvania Ave, in shiny black jackboots and well cut Hugo Boss uniforms?
I think there are too many similarities to call my original statement hyperbolic.
But this is just my opinion (and to borrow from Trump after Charlottesville) there must be very many good people on both sides of this divide (just like there were in 30's Germany). |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs "
Did you come up with BRIC on your own? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Did you come up with that all on your own? The world order is changing anyway through the likes of China, India, Brazil and Russia etc, maybe Trump just realises that. Will it be better? No idea, probably pretty much the same for the plebs
Did you come up with BRIC on your own?"
No, why? I didn’t start a thread about it either |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What Trump is doing is really simple, he is resetting the clock to 1939 but with one major difference...
The USA and Germany are trading places."
What rubbish it is far more complex than that the world is totally different now to start with |
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"What rubbish it is far more complex than that the world is totally different now to start with"
Funny how you say I'm talking rubbish but you have ignored my last post where I listed 7 things the man has done so far that are straight out of the Nazi playlist for turning a democracy into a dictatorship.
I would also point out that the German professional and upper classes refused to believe what Hitler had done until they were forced to visit the concentration and death camps in 45 after their country had been totally destroyed. |
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"It seems pretty clear to me that Donald Trump is on a mission to completely change the world order as we have known it since the end of WW2.
The clues are not that hard to see. He admires Dutarte, Putin and Kim Jong Un and he doesn’t like Trudeau, Merkel, the EU, TPP and NAFTA. He seems determined to disrupt the normal functioning of the EU and indeed he is even questioning the US continued participation in NATO. His tariffs have unsettled traditional and reliable trading partners and allies and have even started to detrimentally affect US businesses.
I think that it is fair to say that he is ideologically driven and there is a great risk that his actions will completely change the world that we live in.
Question is... will that change be for the better or for for worse?"
He'll only initiate change for as long as he's in office. I know that he has some hard core supporters but, at the same time, I don't think it'll be that long before his erratic and ill-thought actions/policies start to bite back. Fingers crossed, the next person in charge will be more responsible, less ego driven and realise that cooperation brings far more and better results for everyone involved, than unilateral dictator-like orders do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He'll only initiate change for as long as he's in office. "
I don't think that's strictly true. The damage he's done already to the US's standing abroad won't end when he's out of the oval office, no matter how soon that is, will take decades to undo.
Right now, the election of Trump has shown at least two things;
1] the US cannot be trusted to honour any deal that it makes, as it is only ever four years away from electing another spiteful, petulant child to it's highest office, who'll renege on the deal for no good reason.
2] If you want the US to respect you, get nukes.
The repercussions of his actions will echo long after he (hopefully) goes to jail. |
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"He'll only initiate change for as long as he's in office.
I don't think that's strictly true. The damage he's done already to the US's standing abroad won't end when he's out of the oval office, no matter how soon that is, will take decades to undo.
Right now, the election of Trump has shown at least two things;
1] the US cannot be trusted to honour any deal that it makes, as it is only ever four years away from electing another spiteful, petulant child to it's highest office, who'll renege on the deal for no good reason.
2] If you want the US to respect you, get nukes.
The repercussions of his actions will echo long after he (hopefully) goes to jail."
I hear what you're saying but I think that the next person will be more cooperative and reasonable, precisely because he'll want to undo/repair some of the damage that Trump has done (as you've highlighted above). He/she will, in my view, will try to remove themselves as far away as possible from the Trump model and also, probably, push the agenda that the US *can* be trusted and that it was Trump himself that shouldn't have been trusted. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What rubbish it is far more complex than that the world is totally different now to start with
Funny how you say I'm talking rubbish but you have ignored my last post where I listed 7 things the man has done so far that are straight out of the Nazi playlist for turning a democracy into a dictatorship.
I would also point out that the German professional and upper classes refused to believe what Hitler had done until they were forced to visit the concentration and death camps in 45 after their country had been totally destroyed. "
Naxis came about because of the treaty of Versailles,a result of the first world war. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"What rubbish it is far more complex than that the world is totally different now to start with
Funny how you say I'm talking rubbish but you have ignored my last post where I listed 7 things the man has done so far that are straight out of the Nazi playlist for turning a democracy into a dictatorship.
I would also point out that the German professional and upper classes refused to believe what Hitler had done until they were forced to visit the concentration and death camps in 45 after their country had been totally destroyed. Naxis came about because of the treaty of Versailles,a result of the first world war."
whoops Nazis lol |
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"Naxis came about because of the treaty of Versailles,a result of the first world war.whoops Nazis lol"
Again you ignore the point I made and attempt to deflect with a claim that although it has some merit is a gross oversimplification of what happened. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Trump is just a willing Patsy...Putin is playing him for the fool he is by appealing to his vanity The USA is not the undisputed world leader in anything other than military might anymore.
But Trump will leave that in ruins as well as he gets "found out" more and more for the innocent he is on the world stage...Not too many rednecks in the Kremlin lol....  |
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