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Brexit and the car industry
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"In the future the idea of owning your own car will seem as daft as owning a horse and cart does to us today. Once cars are fully autonomous, car ownership as we know it today will disappear. Maybe Brexit will accelerate this change in the UK? Or maybe not, who knows?! " I saw something the other day that tickled me on the topic of autnomous cars. It was something along the lines of: "People who are excited about self-serving cars have clearly never owned a printer" | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line." Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500?" I don’t know where that figure of £1500 came from but surely it is evident that without a relatively free trade, frictionless treatment of goods moving across the channel (and back again) there are going to be added administrative as well as physical tariff costs to pay. The car industry in the U.K. was reinvented in the last 20 years or so, and financed by overseas ownership. The motivation was at least in part due to seamless border traffic across and EU borders for components and an ability to export vehicles assembled from widely sourced components into the EU. Why would these investors be happy about new arrangements that would complicate the very principles on which they made their decisions? | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? I don’t know where that figure of £1500 came from but surely it is evident that without a relatively free trade, frictionless treatment of goods moving across the channel (and back again) there are going to be added administrative as well as physical tariff costs to pay. The car industry in the U.K. was reinvented in the last 20 years or so, and financed by overseas ownership. The motivation was at least in part due to seamless border traffic across and EU borders for components and an ability to export vehicles assembled from widely sourced components into the EU. Why would these investors be happy about new arrangements that would complicate the very principles on which they made their decisions?" Why would these investors be happy to be here even though we are outside the Eurozone? | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500?" This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry)" So leaving is good for UK made cars then  | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then "A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry. I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you? | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then
A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry.
I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you? "Buy a second hand fleet car with fsh. | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then
A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry.
I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you?
Buy a second hand fleet car with fsh."This site needs a face palm emoji. If the price of a new car increases, so does the price of a 2nd hand car as people still need a good return on their investment, so they can go an buy another new car. This is the same for a private owner as it is for a fleet, probably more so for a fleet as they have a business to run and are less able/willing to absorb the costs. | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then
A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry.
I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you?
Buy a second hand fleet car with fsh.
This site needs a face palm emoji. If the price of a new car increases, so does the price of a 2nd hand car as people still need a good return on their investment, so they can go an buy another new car. This is the same for a private owner as it is for a fleet, probably more so for a fleet as they have a business to run and are less able/willing to absorb the costs."Yep. But it won't be such a big hit will it. And to be fair, who buys new cars outright these days? It'll just be ten quid extra in your monthly bill. Those who can afford it won't even notice. | |||
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" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then
A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry.
I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you? "Won’t make any noticeable difference. The same as for most people in the UK | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then
A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry.
I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you?
Won’t make any noticeable difference. The same as for most people in the UK"It will! The price of new cars will stop coming down! Oh wait... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This is Deloitte's findings of car cost increases due to a hard Brexit. These figure combine tariffs on parts and imports of manufactured vehicles. UK made car: +€800 or 3% German made car: +€5,600 or 21% Non-German EU made car: +€4,300 or 21% Rest of world madw car: +€2,300 or 10% (Source: Deloitte Brexit Briefing 5 - How a hard Brexit would impact the German automotive industry) So leaving is good for UK made cars then
A hard Brexit is bad for consumers, but better for those involved in the British car industry.
I am a car owner, so a consumer, but not involved in the car industry, so it's bad for me, and for most people in the UK. How about you?
Won’t make any noticeable difference. The same as for most people in the UK"You must be better paid than I am if you won't notice up to €5,600 price increase. | |||
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"If 2 autonomous cars approach each other along a single track lane, how do they decide who gives way to who? " Depends on which one's RAC and which is AA | |||
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"So could there be an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a totally home grown car. Made from components manufactured from within the uk, all assembled within the uk. Rebooting the British manufacturing sector?" Yeah see you down the British Leyland dealership | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500?" This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs." Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU | |||
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"So could there be an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a totally home grown car. Made from components manufactured from within the uk, all assembled within the uk. Rebooting the British manufacturing sector? Yeah see you down the British Leyland dealership " Why not? There's eternity to create a business. It doesn't all have to be done in the next 5 years. So VAG and and BMW's will be more expensive, so don't buy them... | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU" No deal means you revert to WTO terms with the entire world until trade deals are signed. If you leave the EU you lose the single market and you lose all the trade deals countries have with the EU as well. | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU No deal means you revert to WTO terms with the entire world until trade deals are signed. If you leave the EU you lose the single market and you lose all the trade deals countries have with the EU as well." Which countries have trade deals with the EU? | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU No deal means you revert to WTO terms with the entire world until trade deals are signed. If you leave the EU you lose the single market and you lose all the trade deals countries have with the EU as well." So only until new deals are made. Cool. | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU" Plus the only reason the UK is being hit with Donald Trump's extra tariff on steel and aluminium from the USA is because we are members of the EU. It's a tariff against the EU. Once we are out of the EU the UK will have to negotiate an entirely new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 basis. If Trump is smart and wants to tempt other countries like Italy to leave the EU, then he could give the UK a full exemption from the steel and aluminium tariff, and plus it would annoy the hell out of Juncker, Tusk and remainers which Donald Trump seems to enjoy doing  | |||
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"So could there be an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a totally home grown car. Made from components manufactured from within the uk, all assembled within the uk. Rebooting the British manufacturing sector?" As I said on the last thread Nissan UK already announced months ago that after Brexit they intend to source at least 85% of the parts needed to construct UK made cars from within the single market of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). I suspect other UK car manufacturers will do the same and source as much as they can domestically from within the UK. | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU Plus the only reason the UK is being hit with Donald Trump's extra tariff on steel and aluminium from the USA is because we are members of the EU. It's a tariff against the EU. Once we are out of the EU the UK will have to negotiate an entirely new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 basis. If Trump is smart and wants to tempt other countries like Italy to leave the EU, then he could give the UK a full exemption from the steel and aluminium tariff, and plus it would annoy the hell out of Juncker, Tusk and remainers which Donald Trump seems to enjoy doing "Why do Mexico and Canada also face the same tariffs if it only affects the EU? Did trump tell may there won't be any tariffs once the UK leaves at the recent G7 meeting? If not, why not if that is the case? Your reality doesn't seem to match the reality of everyone else. What is the source for your claims there won't be these tariffs on the UK? | |||
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"So could there be an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a totally home grown car. Made from components manufactured from within the uk, all assembled within the uk. Rebooting the British manufacturing sector? As I said on the last thread Nissan UK already announced months ago that after Brexit they intend to source at least 85% of the parts needed to construct UK made cars from within the single market of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). I suspect other UK car manufacturers will do the same and source as much as they can domestically from within the UK. " The fact they are not already doing so, and that they can't get to 100% suggests that they can't get all the parts domestically and that domestic parts are more expensive. | |||
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"So could there be an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a totally home grown car. Made from components manufactured from within the uk, all assembled within the uk. Rebooting the British manufacturing sector? As I said on the last thread Nissan UK already announced months ago that after Brexit they intend to source at least 85% of the parts needed to construct UK made cars from within the single market of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). I suspect other UK car manufacturers will do the same and source as much as they can domestically from within the UK. The fact they are not already doing so, and that they can't get to 100% suggests that they can't get all the parts domestically and that domestic parts are more expensive." 85% is pretty high. If they can't currently get the other 15% of the parts needed In the UK then this presents new businesses opportunities for UK firms to start making and supplying these missing 15% of parts. | |||
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"So could there be an opportunity for a motor manufacturer to produce a totally home grown car. Made from components manufactured from within the uk, all assembled within the uk. Rebooting the British manufacturing sector? As I said on the last thread Nissan UK already announced months ago that after Brexit they intend to source at least 85% of the parts needed to construct UK made cars from within the single market of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). I suspect other UK car manufacturers will do the same and source as much as they can domestically from within the UK. The fact they are not already doing so, and that they can't get to 100% suggests that they can't get all the parts domestically and that domestic parts are more expensive. 85% is pretty high. If they can't currently get the other 15% of the parts needed In the UK then this presents new businesses opportunities for UK firms to start making and supplying these missing 15% of parts. " What is stopping that now? | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%." Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? | |||
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"Trump has announced that he is looking at also putting tariffs on cars too. I don't know how many British made cars are destined for US markets, but any additional tariffs won't be good. " Another tariff against the EU then, which the UK is leaving. As I said earlier once the UK is free from the EU, the UK will be making a new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 country basis. | |||
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"Trump has announced that he is looking at also putting tariffs on cars too. I don't know how many British made cars are destined for US markets, but any additional tariffs won't be good. Another tariff against the EU then, which the UK is leaving. As I said earlier once the UK is free from the EU, the UK will be making a new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 country basis. " Who said it was against the EU?  | |||
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"Trump has announced that he is looking at also putting tariffs on cars too. I don't know how many British made cars are destined for US markets, but any additional tariffs won't be good. Another tariff against the EU then, which the UK is leaving. As I said earlier once the UK is free from the EU, the UK will be making a new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 country basis. Who said it was against the EU? "You did. You said "I don't know how many British made cars are destined for US markets, but any additional tariffs won't be good". The UK is currently a member of the EU, so any additional tariff on British made cars would have to be an EU wide tariff. | |||
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"Trump has announced that he is looking at also putting tariffs on cars too. I don't know how many British made cars are destined for US markets, but any additional tariffs won't be good. Another tariff against the EU then, which the UK is leaving. As I said earlier once the UK is free from the EU, the UK will be making a new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 country basis. Who said it was against the EU?
You did. You said "I don't know how many British made cars are destined for US markets, but any additional tariffs won't be good".
The UK is currently a member of the EU, so any additional tariff on British made cars would have to be an EU wide tariff. "What if it's worldwide? | |||
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" Which countries have trade deals with the EU?" The EU have over 120 trade deals in place with countries outside the EU. " So only until new deals are made. Cool. "And at the Tories current pace they'll have those trade deals done by the year 2318. Will the companies involved wait until the Tories get the deals, negotiated, ratified and enacted? | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? " Surprise surprise, no answer!  | |||
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" 85% is pretty high. If they can't currently get the other 15% of the parts needed In the UK then this presents new businesses opportunities for UK firms to start making and supplying these missing 15% of parts. What is stopping that now?" As Centaur can't/won't answer, I'll do it for him 
Nothing!!! | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer! "Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate. | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate. "Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum. | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum. "So you can't answer then? | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum.
So you can't answer then? "Sorry Centaur, but if you can't even understand what a 2nd hand car is, then debate is beyond you. | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum.
So you can't answer then?
Sorry Centaur, but if you can't even understand what a 2nd hand car is, then debate is beyond you."On the last thread you seemed to think all new car sales were by private individual buyers. They are not! A good proportion of new car sales are to companies, which are purchased on company accounts. Companies then use these cars for a while before selling them on to the 2nd hand used car market, by which time they have devalued considerably. | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum.
So you can't answer then?
Sorry Centaur, but if you can't even understand what a 2nd hand car is, then debate is beyond you.
On the last thread you seemed to think all new car sales were by private individual buyers. They are not! A good proportion of new car sales are to companies, which are purchased on company accounts. Companies then use these cars for a while before selling them on to the 2nd hand used car market, by which time they have devalued considerably. "No, I didn't, I said that before you can buy a 2nd hand car, someone has to have purchased it as a new car. It can be either a fleet or an individual buyer. This was too much for you to comprehend. I stupidly thought that you would be able to comprehend this, but I had obviously overestimated you. I'll try not to make the same mistake again. | |||
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"It will eventually depend on what sort of deal is struck. If theres low tariffs on cars and the materials needed then the British car industry should be ok and suffer only minimal losses as a result of tariffs. If theres customs checks required on materials and/or finished cars then that will also be a problem because companies depend on JIT stock management to keep their costs down. The motor industry is depending on a good deal. No deal would be a disaster as it would mean the cost to produce a car would increase by about £1,500 (largely due to steel and aluminum tariffs being so high as we're seeing with Trump at the moment). On top of that 10% export duties and the increased costs of stock management, extra costs in shipping over a border with a customs checkpoint would make British made cars a lot less competitive in the EU. The companies might eat some of those losses but if every car sold faces £1,500 increase on the manufacturing side, 10% on the export and other export customs related costs then it would surely make sense to move some production to the EU and simply avoid taking those hits to their bottom line. Here we go again. Why would costs increase by £1500? This was amswered in the last thread and in the post you quoted here I said it was largely due to steel and aluminium tariffs. But here you go again: Well lets look at the detail as per the World Tariffs Profile 2017 available on the WTO website (page 37); Steel and aluminum have a tariff of up to 40%, leather up to 30%, electrical machinery up to 30%, cotton up to 20%. While parts that are exclusively for cars might be 4.5%, there are other materials that go into cars that will face tariffs of up to 40%. Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Most cars built in the UK use UK made steel, no tariffs there. And I think Honda use Kobe steel, or did do, which comes from Japan, so no change there in or out of the EU Plus the only reason the UK is being hit with Donald Trump's extra tariff on steel and aluminium from the USA is because we are members of the EU. It's a tariff against the EU. Once we are out of the EU the UK will have to negotiate an entirely new settlement with Donald Trump on a 1 to 1 basis. If Trump is smart and wants to tempt other countries like Italy to leave the EU, then he could give the UK a full exemption from the steel and aluminium tariff, and plus it would annoy the hell out of Juncker, Tusk and remainers which Donald Trump seems to enjoy doing "Your hatred of the EU is by now well-documented. However, making inaccurate statements in order to justify that hatred, damages, at the very least, your credibility. Trump may hate the EU but his tariffs are not only affecting the EU. Therefore, to say that once we're out of the EU nothing will affect us, is, again at the very least, nonsense. Btw, have you ever even thought why Trump hates the EU? Is it maybe because it's easier for him to bully countries on their own rather in big blocks? Is it because big blocks are competition for him? What makes you think we'll get preferential treatment once on our own? Because he said so? No matter how much you hate EU, you cannot tell me that you trust Trump in any way shape or form, especially after the G7 antics and in addition to everything else. Doesn't the fact that he mainly prefers to deal with dictators (or those who behave like dictators, i.e. Putin) make you question even a little bit what his values/priorities are? | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum.
So you can't answer then?
Sorry Centaur, but if you can't even understand what a 2nd hand car is, then debate is beyond you.
On the last thread you seemed to think all new car sales were by private individual buyers. They are not! A good proportion of new car sales are to companies, which are purchased on company accounts. Companies then use these cars for a while before selling them on to the 2nd hand used car market, by which time they have devalued considerably.
No, I didn't, I said that before you can buy a 2nd hand car, someone has to have purchased it as a new car. It can be either a fleet or an individual buyer.
This was too much for you to comprehend. I stupidly thought that you would be able to comprehend this, but I had obviously overestimated you. I'll try not to make the same mistake again. "Nice try but you DIDN'T say that. Here is a link to the other thread if folks want to go and check your exact wording.... www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/765154 For the benefit of those who don't want to follow the link to check the other thread your exact quote, word for word, was....."You can't buy a 2nd hand car if no one buys the car new first!" Your exact wording was "no one" and not "someone" as you are clearly now sneakily trying to change what you said after the event. 'One' means singular, as in individual or a singular or individual private buyer. Really can't believe this is having to be explained to you. You never mentioned fleet or company cars and if thats what you meant then you really should invest in some evening school GCSE English classes to make your posts clearer as your English language comprehension skills really don't seem to be upto much. | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum.
So you can't answer then?
Sorry Centaur, but if you can't even understand what a 2nd hand car is, then debate is beyond you.
On the last thread you seemed to think all new car sales were by private individual buyers. They are not! A good proportion of new car sales are to companies, which are purchased on company accounts. Companies then use these cars for a while before selling them on to the 2nd hand used car market, by which time they have devalued considerably.
No, I didn't, I said that before you can buy a 2nd hand car, someone has to have purchased it as a new car. It can be either a fleet or an individual buyer.
This was too much for you to comprehend. I stupidly thought that you would be able to comprehend this, but I had obviously overestimated you. I'll try not to make the same mistake again.
Nice try but you DIDN'T say that. Here is a link to the other thread if folks want to go and check your exact wording....
www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/765154
For the benefit of those who don't want to follow the link to check the other thread your exact quote, word for word, was....."You can't buy a 2nd hand car if no one buys the car new first!"
Your exact wording was "no one" and not "someone" as you are clearly now sneakily trying to change what you said after the event. 'One' means singular, as in individual or a singular or individual private buyer. Really can't believe this is having to be explained to you. You never mentioned fleet or company cars and if thats what you meant then you really should invest in some evening school GCSE English classes to make your posts clearer as your English language comprehension skills really don't seem to be upto much. "Oh dear Centaur. You can still use "no one" to refer to a company. You could say, for example "Toys R Us have gone bust because no one wanted to buy them" | |||
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"Any change in price won't affect uk luxury cars like Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley and you could even include Jaguar/Land Rover in that bracket now too. Rich individuals buy these brands and won't care about £1000 here or there. The drop in the value of the pound has made UK made cars much more competitive now in global markets. UK exports are booming. Plus after Brexit the UK government can have the freedom if it wants to, drop the VAT on cars below 15%. As members of the EU, the lowest you can go with VAT is 15%. Centaur, do you own an Aston Martin, McClaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar or Land Rover? Surprise surprise, no answer!
Why is it important to you what car I own? Frankly it's irrelevant to the debate.
Oh god, your ignorant of even the topic at hand. We desperately need a face palm emoji for this forum.
So you can't answer then?
Sorry Centaur, but if you can't even understand what a 2nd hand car is, then debate is beyond you.
On the last thread you seemed to think all new car sales were by private individual buyers. They are not! A good proportion of new car sales are to companies, which are purchased on company accounts. Companies then use these cars for a while before selling them on to the 2nd hand used car market, by which time they have devalued considerably.
No, I didn't, I said that before you can buy a 2nd hand car, someone has to have purchased it as a new car. It can be either a fleet or an individual buyer.
This was too much for you to comprehend. I stupidly thought that you would be able to comprehend this, but I had obviously overestimated you. I'll try not to make the same mistake again.
Nice try but you DIDN'T say that. Here is a link to the other thread if folks want to go and check your exact wording....
www.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/765154
For the benefit of those who don't want to follow the link to check the other thread your exact quote, word for word, was....."You can't buy a 2nd hand car if no one buys the car new first!"
Your exact wording was "no one" and not "someone" as you are clearly now sneakily trying to change what you said after the event. 'One' means singular, as in individual or a singular or individual private buyer. Really can't believe this is having to be explained to you. You never mentioned fleet or company cars and if thats what you meant then you really should invest in some evening school GCSE English classes to make your posts clearer as your English language comprehension skills really don't seem to be upto much.
Oh dear Centaur. You can still use "no one" to refer to a company. You could say, for example "Toys R Us have gone bust because no one wanted to buy them" "LOL, you really have lost the plot haven't you. Brexit is sending you doolally. | |||
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Dear lord, the grasping at straws is ridiculous. Plenty of people would say no one in reference to companies.
"Id like to buy a newspaper but no one has any left."
Apart from the fact that the underlying point is irrelevant. If companies are paying higher costs for fleet cars then its still a cost to the UK. Businesses will have to either eat that loss or cut costs, neither is a positive development. | |||
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"
Dear lord, the grasping at straws is ridiculous. Plenty of people would say no one in reference to companies.
"Id like to buy a newspaper but no one has any left."
Apart from the fact that the underlying point is irrelevant. If companies are paying higher costs for fleet cars then its still a cost to the UK. Businesses will have to either eat that loss or cut costs, neither is a positive development."Exactly. | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs." Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong" Glad to see someone can provide more accurate information. It was bizarre to assume that all the iron and steel would be imported . It someone wanted to do an accurate costing of a car they would probably need to work in the motor industry. For those reasons I simply dismissed the calculation of the extra £1500 duty as being a guess without any basis. It is a perfect illustration of the dangers of doing a calculation on costings without any knowledge of the industry concerned . A visit to Port Talbot steel works might be usefull for some people. | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong Glad to see someone can provide more accurate information. It was bizarre to assume that all the iron and steel would be imported . It someone wanted to do an accurate costing of a car they would probably need to work in the motor industry. For those reasons I simply dismissed the calculation of the extra £1500 duty as being a guess without any basis. It is a perfect illustration of the dangers of doing a calculation on costings without any knowledge of the industry concerned . A visit to Port Talbot steel works might be usefull for some people. " On another thread one of our scottish friends claimed that honda had 350 loads of parts each day, now when I was at school that is 15 loads an hour or one every four minutes, dont think many logistic companies could cope with that let alone a car factory, not the report I tracked down was from a hondas employees appearance in the house of commons where this 1500 cost increase came up,it wasnt reported directly if these 350 trucks all came from europe but it was implied they did, now of course the honda man could have been telling a few porkies hoping that the mps would pressure the gov to stop brexit and any cost increase to them in doing business, or it could have been a journalist missreporting what was said( surely not ). But just to show what rubbish the 350 trucks a day is and therefore makes me take everything in the report with a large dose of salt is this little accepted fact. Honda make 6/700 cars a DAY so if the 350 trucks is true then that means it takes one artic to make TWO cars, even our confused Irish friend will find it hard to explain how you can fit the contents of an artic into two cars | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong Glad to see someone can provide more accurate information. It was bizarre to assume that all the iron and steel would be imported . It someone wanted to do an accurate costing of a car they would probably need to work in the motor industry. For those reasons I simply dismissed the calculation of the extra £1500 duty as being a guess without any basis. It is a perfect illustration of the dangers of doing a calculation on costings without any knowledge of the industry concerned . A visit to Port Talbot steel works might be usefull for some people. On another thread one of our scottish friends claimed that honda had 350 loads of parts each day, now when I was at school that is 15 loads an hour or one every four minutes, dont think many logistic companies could cope with that let alone a car factory, not the report I tracked down was from a hondas employees appearance in the house of commons where this 1500 cost increase came up,it wasnt reported directly if these 350 trucks all came from europe but it was implied they did, now of course the honda man could have been telling a few porkies hoping that the mps would pressure the gov to stop brexit and any cost increase to them in doing business, or it could have been a journalist missreporting what was said( surely not ). But just to show what rubbish the 350 trucks a day is and therefore makes me take everything in the report with a large dose of salt is this little accepted fact. Honda make 6/700 cars a DAY so if the 350 trucks is true then that means it takes one artic to make TWO cars, even our confused Irish friend will find it hard to explain how you can fit the contents of an artic into two cars "An interesting post . Out of curiosity how much of a car ( if any ) Is made from 're cycled materials. ? | |||
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"Many people seem to be hung up on this £1,500 figure provided by a manufacturer, and ignoring the detailed breakdown that I have provided from Deloitte, which show €5,000+ increase on average vehicles from Germany, why is that?" Who commissioned the Deloitte report ? Someone had to pay for it? | |||
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"Many people seem to be hung up on this £1,500 figure provided by a manufacturer, and ignoring the detailed breakdown that I have provided from Deloitte, which show €5,000+ increase on average vehicles from Germany, why is that? Who commissioned the Deloitte report ? Someone had to pay for it? " Or they could have funded it themselves as a marketing report. | |||
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"interesting post . Out of curiosity how much of a car ( if any ) Is made from 're cycled materials. ? " Not sure but IIRC everything is meant to be recycable from them these days, personally I cant wait until all cars are electric but with at least a 500 mile range, that will cut down the amount of materials used in making them | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong Glad to see someone can provide more accurate information. It was bizarre to assume that all the iron and steel would be imported . It someone wanted to do an accurate costing of a car they would probably need to work in the motor industry. For those reasons I simply dismissed the calculation of the extra £1500 duty as being a guess without any basis. It is a perfect illustration of the dangers of doing a calculation on costings without any knowledge of the industry concerned . A visit to Port Talbot steel works might be usefull for some people. " The 1500 figure didnt come from me it came from both Honda and Aston Martin. You may find it difficult to understand but they do have some experience with the car industry | |||
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"Many people seem to be hung up on this £1,500 figure provided by a manufacturer, and ignoring the detailed breakdown that I have provided from Deloitte, which show €5,000+ increase on average vehicles from Germany, why is that?" If you read my post above yours then perhaps you might understand why that figure is dubious, Both sides of the brexit debate produce "facts" and figures slanted towards their point of view therefore I dont think any figure for anything brexit related is reliable. Lets face it companies will say anything the think will help their profits margins, we wont know until the dust settles as to the truth, IIRC deloitte produced some figures duting the vote that have been shown to be dodgy | |||
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" The 1500 figure didnt come from me it came from both Honda and Aston Martin. You may find it difficult to understand but they do have some experience with the car industry "Did you hear the chap from honda say it during his appearance at the commons? Or have you just quoted the report that I have seen that quotes it? This is the same report that says they get 350 deliveries a day to make 6/700 cars, of course they are going to say tariffs are going to cost them, they will, but they are going to make it look worse than it is likely to be, just the same as the 350 trucks a day being held in the customs, havent you ever heard of TIR ? Its just project fear from the companies( Im not saying there wont be an impact just the level)I'm not really sure whether youre just very niave or have been taken in as you want to see the very worst in brexit. I notice you havent commented on your error in the steel price. Just answer this do you think it takes an artic load of parts to make two small cars ? | |||
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"Many people seem to be hung up on this £1,500 figure provided by a manufacturer, and ignoring the detailed breakdown that I have provided from Deloitte, which show €5,000+ increase on average vehicles from Germany, why is that? If you read my post above yours then perhaps you might understand why that figure is dubious, Both sides of the brexit debate produce "facts" and figures slanted towards their point of view therefore I dont think any figure for anything brexit related is reliable. Lets face it companies will say anything the think will help their profits margins, we wont know until the dust settles as to the truth, IIRC deloitte produced some figures duting the vote that have been shown to be dodgy" So be specific about this report, and what you think are the flaws in it. | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong" Thats funny because when the Kobe steel scandal hit Honda were one of the many included in that scandal of falisified data on aluminum. And as for their steel it is provided by Steel & Alloy Processing Ltd who source their steel from the EU. Steel & Alloy is based in West Bromwich and processes the steel there, but the majority of their steel itself comes from the EU, only a small portion comes from Port Talbot as you claimed. As much as you try and keep burying this point, Aston Martin and Honda have both said 1,500 is the expected increased cost. There will be raw materials subject to up to 40% tariffs, whether thats leather/cotton, aluminum, gps system, on board computer, steel, rubber, plastic or any of the other compnents that make up the car. Whether you like it or not, the actual manufacturers say 1500 and they know a lot more than you. Youve said nothing to disprove the 1500 figure yet, the best youve had is a baseless claim that all the materials that go into the car would be taxed at 10% meaning the car would cost 15000 to manufacture. And as the actual tariffs can be as high as 40% that point was completely without merit. | |||
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"Many people seem to be hung up on this £1,500 figure provided by a manufacturer, and ignoring the detailed breakdown that I have provided from Deloitte, which show €5,000+ increase on average vehicles from Germany, why is that? If you read my post above yours then perhaps you might understand why that figure is dubious, Both sides of the brexit debate produce "facts" and figures slanted towards their point of view therefore I dont think any figure for anything brexit related is reliable. Lets face it companies will say anything the think will help their profits margins, we wont know until the dust settles as to the truth, IIRC deloitte produced some figures duting the vote that have been shown to be dodgy So be specific about this report, and what you think are the flaws in it. " I dont know IF its dodgy or not, but I have become very cynical about anything produced for or against brexit so dont believe any of it. Deloitte produced a report just after the vote saying businesses were going to go into meltdown consummer spending was going to implode etc, hasnt happened, YET,WE live in an era of sound bites and fake news, not sure if its the media or the politicans who are worse but the truth is very hard to find. My first stop is to follow the money because that usually gives you the point of view where stories are aiming. I have run my business for nearly 40 years and hardly a year goes by without some dire warning that life will come to and end financially but somehow we adapt , cut costs,improve what we are doing and survive these big companies will do the same, there will be opportunities for those that see them, those that dont will go the way of toysrus etc | |||
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"Many people seem to be hung up on this £1,500 figure provided by a manufacturer, and ignoring the detailed breakdown that I have provided from Deloitte, which show €5,000+ increase on average vehicles from Germany, why is that? If you read my post above yours then perhaps you might understand why that figure is dubious, Both sides of the brexit debate produce "facts" and figures slanted towards their point of view therefore I dont think any figure for anything brexit related is reliable. Lets face it companies will say anything the think will help their profits margins, we wont know until the dust settles as to the truth, IIRC deloitte produced some figures duting the vote that have been shown to be dodgy So be specific about this report, and what you think are the flaws in it. I dont know IF its dodgy or not, but I have become very cynical about anything produced for or against brexit so dont believe any of it. Deloitte produced a report just after the vote saying businesses were going to go into meltdown consummer spending was going to implode etc, hasnt happened, YET,WE live in an era of sound bites and fake news, not sure if its the media or the politicans who are worse but the truth is very hard to find. My first stop is to follow the money because that usually gives you the point of view where stories are aiming. I have run my business for nearly 40 years and hardly a year goes by without some dire warning that life will come to and end financially but somehow we adapt , cut costs,improve what we are doing and survive these big companies will do the same, there will be opportunities for those that see them, those that dont will go the way of toysrus etc " Deloitte didn't become one of the big 4 by accident. Unless you can give specific reasons as to why this particular report is wrong, then I'm going to trust their analysis over yours. | |||
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" Aluminum is currently trading at £1,738 per tonne. Steel is currently trading at £3,650 per tonne. Theres an average of 900kg of steel and aluminium in a car. That is where the bulk of the 1500 will come from. Honda by the way uses mostly steel for its cars and typically uses aluminum for smaller parts that they want to be lightweight like the hood of the car. The frames are usually pure steel. If 70% of the metal in a Honda (or any other car) is steel then the tariff will cost £919.80 on the steel and £187.70 on the aluminum. Thats a total of £1,107.50. The other materials that go into the car would make up the rest of the £392.50 in tariffs. Oh dear dear dear, not looked in for 24 hrs and youre still confused, Cold rolled steel used in cars is not 3650 a tonne, stainless steel isnt that much except for very high grade, and honda certainly last year were using uk steel made in port talbot so the only tariff would be on the raw materials( if any as not looked)keep digging dear boy, perhaps cross rail should have employed you to dig their tunnels. Your figures have been found out just admit you were wrong Thats funny because when the Kobe steel scandal hit Honda were one of the many included in that scandal of falisified data on aluminum. And as for their steel it is provided by Steel & Alloy Processing Ltd who source their steel from the EU. Steel & Alloy is based in West Bromwich and processes the steel there, but the majority of their steel itself comes from the EU, only a small portion comes from Port Talbot as you claimed. As much as you try and keep burying this point, Aston Martin and Honda have both said 1,500 is the expected increased cost. There will be raw materials subject to up to 40% tariffs, whether thats leather/cotton, aluminum, gps system, on board computer, steel, rubber, plastic or any of the other compnents that make up the car. Whether you like it or not, the actual manufacturers say 1500 and they know a lot more than you. Youve said nothing to disprove the 1500 figure yet, the best youve had is a baseless claim that all the materials that go into the car would be taxed at 10% meaning the car would cost 15000 to manufacture. And as the actual tariffs can be as high as 40% that point was completely without merit." You cant even get the price of steel right,let alone where honda source it, where they are buying it from today I cant tell you but certainly when they were on our local news a couple of years ago they were proudly saying they were using uk sourced steel. and as it has been pointed out components are 4.5 % tariff so the cost of the parts would have to be even higher than 15,000 to get a tariff increase of 1500,YES I know that many products such as leather and beef etc etc have higher tariffs but I dont think you will find much leather in a civic or beef for that matter .
They were indeed caught up in the kobe problems but very little is used in a civic(bonnets mainly AFAIK)and yes any tariff will have an impact, its the ridiculous figure of 1500 in total that is wrong, as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it,
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" Deloitte didn't become one of the big 4 by accident. Unless you can give specific reasons as to why this particular report is wrong, then I'm going to trust their analysis over yours. " I havent said its wrong have I, what I have said is that financial predictions are rarely right and are based on what the producer or paymaster wants to show, they have forecasted that if the german motor industry faces a hard brexit they will lose 18,000 jobs, doubt that will happen either, business just doesnt sit still and take shit it changes and moves forward. You are perfectly entitled to believe them over me, I dont have a problem with you or anyone else doing that, but just remember all the experts that predicted disaster the day after a leave vote, now you will say we havent left yet, but the predictions were for instant recession, it didnt happen, you will say thats because the BoE took action, but thats what all firms that want to survive and flourish will do. To be fair if uk made cars increase by the 3% then that will be a boost to the uk industry over other eu made ones, and to be fair 3% is nothing compared to the increase in the cost of cars from emission controls on engines | |||
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" Deloitte didn't become one of the big 4 by accident. Unless you can give specific reasons as to why this particular report is wrong, then I'm going to trust their analysis over yours. I havent said its wrong have I, what I have said is that financial predictions are rarely right and are based on what the producer or paymaster wants to show, they have forecasted that if the german motor industry faces a hard brexit they will lose 18,000 jobs, doubt that will happen either, business just doesnt sit still and take shit it changes and moves forward. You are perfectly entitled to believe them over me, I dont have a problem with you or anyone else doing that, but just remember all the experts that predicted disaster the day after a leave vote, now you will say we havent left yet, but the predictions were for instant recession, it didnt happen, you will say thats because the BoE took action, but thats what all firms that want to survive and flourish will do. To be fair if uk made cars increase by the 3% then that will be a boost to the uk industry over other eu made ones, and to be fair 3% is nothing compared to the increase in the cost of cars from emission controls on engines" You are saying they are wrong, well, they wouldn't have the clients they have, and earn the sums they do, by being wrong and providing poor analysis. When asked why, you can't give anything specific about this report. It's the usual Brexit bullshit of 'we don't need experts' and dismissing out of hand anything that doesn't confirm your view of the world. | |||
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" Deloitte didn't become one of the big 4 by accident. Unless you can give specific reasons as to why this particular report is wrong, then I'm going to trust their analysis over yours. I havent said its wrong have I, what I have said is that financial predictions are rarely right and are based on what the producer or paymaster wants to show, they have forecasted that if the german motor industry faces a hard brexit they will lose 18,000 jobs, doubt that will happen either, business just doesnt sit still and take shit it changes and moves forward. You are perfectly entitled to believe them over me, I dont have a problem with you or anyone else doing that, but just remember all the experts that predicted disaster the day after a leave vote, now you will say we havent left yet, but the predictions were for instant recession, it didnt happen, you will say thats because the BoE took action, but thats what all firms that want to survive and flourish will do. To be fair if uk made cars increase by the 3% then that will be a boost to the uk industry over other eu made ones, and to be fair 3% is nothing compared to the increase in the cost of cars from emission controls on engines You are saying they are wrong, well, they wouldn't have the clients they have, and earn the sums they do, by being wrong and providing poor analysis. When asked why, you can't give anything specific about this report. It's the usual Brexit bullshit of 'we don't need experts' and dismissing out of hand anything that doesn't confirm your view of the world." Do you have difficulty in reading? I said in the post you jusy quoted that IM NOT saying their prediction is wrong Im just questioning it as most financial predictions turn out to be fairly inaccurate, eg Instant recession, perhaps that is just typical remainer bullshit like all the rst of the doom and gloom that hasnt happened. As we dont know what the deal or no deal will look like their report is based on a lot of assumptions, if any one isnt as they predict then the whole thing will be inaccurate, a bit like the weather forecast its based on history and assumption and is often wrong, dont believe what they say, my business is very weather dependant and they are very often inaccurate and if you look at three forecasts from different providers they will all be different, its just they same with financial forecasts they are informed guesses some will be close some wont. The specific reason I have given is that NO business that wants to survive will just sit back and do nothing, deloitte dont know what any company will do with regard to brexit and as far as I can see their prediction is based on them not doing anything, they will all do something to mitigate any impact and that will make deloittes predictions inaccurate if not completely wrong, remember all the experts at the IMF etc that said the coalition handling of the economy would result in a deeper recession ? Remind me of what happened? | |||
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"1500 is the increase to the uk consumer of an imported cars 300 is the additional cost to exporters who are building cars in the uk WTO Tariff on parts is 4.5% WTO Tariff on complete cars is 10%" So doing maths on parts to get the 1500 is the wrong maths. I’m also guessing they don’t completely empty each lorry into Swindon. | |||
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" as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it, " "Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries. “We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses. “From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.” Seems you know the ins and outs of Honda's business better than senior vice-president of Honda Ian Howells? N.b. A vehicle rolls off the Swindon line every 69 seconds, you do the maths | |||
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" as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it, "Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries. “We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses. “From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.” Seems you know the ins and outs of Honda's business better than senior vice-president of Honda Ian Howells? N.b. A vehicle rolls off the Swindon line every 69 seconds, you do the maths " Again, proof positive that Brexiters believe they know more than anyone else. Who knows more about Honda than Honda? Brexiters that's who.
I mean, do we believe that being the vice-President of a major car manufacturer makes you an expert on the subject or the industry? No, they don't believe in experts. | |||
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" as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it, "Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries. “We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses. “From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.” Seems you know the ins and outs of Honda's business better than senior vice-president of Honda Ian Howells? N.b. A vehicle rolls off the Swindon line every 69 seconds, you do the maths Again, proof positive that Brexiters believe they know more than anyone else. Who knows more about Honda than Honda? Brexiters that's who.
I mean, do we believe that being the vice-President of a major car manufacturer makes you an expert on the subject or the industry? No, they don't believe in experts. "By the same token, who knows more about Audi, than the top boss of Audi in Germany? Remainers that's who.
When it was pointed out on the other thread that the top boss of Audi in Germany said last week the EU must do a good Brexit deal with the UK, then suddenly according to Remainers the top boss of Audi can't be believed. | |||
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" as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it, "Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries. “We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses. “From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.” Seems you know the ins and outs of Honda's business better than senior vice-president of Honda Ian Howells? N.b. A vehicle rolls off the Swindon line every 69 seconds, you do the maths Again, proof positive that Brexiters believe they know more than anyone else. Who knows more about Honda than Honda? Brexiters that's who.
I mean, do we believe that being the vice-President of a major car manufacturer makes you an expert on the subject or the industry? No, they don't believe in experts.
By the same token, who knows more about Audi, than the top boss of Audi in Germany? Remainers that's who.
When it was pointed out on the other thread that the top boss of Audi in Germany said last week the EU must do a good Brexit deal with the UK, then suddenly according to Remainers the top boss of Audi can't be believed. "And yet I bet you would struggle to provide at least two quotes that say "I don't believe the head of Audi". So why should we believe you? | |||
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" as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it, "Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries. “We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses. “From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.” Seems you know the ins and outs of Honda's business better than senior vice-president of Honda Ian Howells? N.b. A vehicle rolls off the Swindon line every 69 seconds, you do the maths " And yet if you look up hondas swindon specific web site they say they receive 200 lorries a day and produce a car every 90 seconds, so which is right? They used to claim that 60/70% of their parts were uk sourced, some have said that its less now, if thats true then they only need 100 from abroad, how many are coming from the EU and how many from outside? Then of course we have TIR which a company as large as honda most certainly use which stops most customs checks as they are sealed at source. As I have said time and time again of course there will be some disruption during brexit but businesses will find ways round those problems as they do to other issues. | |||
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"As I have said time and time again of course there will be some disruption during brexit but businesses will find ways round those problems as they do to other issues." And what do you think will be the solution that most businesses will come up with? | |||
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"Was the Audi debate in the Part 1? I don’t recall it and it hasn’t jumped out from a quick skim. What was the crux of the argument ?" Yes in part 1. About a quarter of the way down the thread. I made reference to Richard Madeley's comments on BBC Question Time last Thursday night, where he said that the top boss of Audi in Germany said last week that the EU must do a good Brexit deal with the UK. Richard Madeley was talking about business taking over influence in the negotiations. I think it was _xplicitlyrics who took issue with it, and said the top boss of Audi couldn't be believed and it was just a PR stunt. | |||
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"Yes in part 1. About a quarter of the way down the thread. I made reference to Richard Madeley's comments on BBC Question Time last Thursday night, where he said that the top boss of Audi in Germany said last week that the EU must do a good Brexit deal with the UK. Richard Madeley was talking about business taking over influence in the negotiations. I think it was _xplicitlyrics who took issue with it, and said the top boss of Audi couldn't be believed and it was just a PR stunt. "The problem with quoting something like that is that there is no way of knowing what Audi consider a good deal. It is possible that they consider destroying the Japanese car manufacturing base in the UK the best outcome for Audi because the losses of sales in the UK will be more than covered by the extra sales in the EU and worldwide. | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon " So Centaur is quoting someone who was quoting someone who was quoting someone....
Do we have the actual direct quote from anywhere? | |||
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"I would still like to know what a good deal is. Sounds to me like more brexit mans brexit, we will have a red white and blue brexit bullshit." What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave? | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon " Richard Madeley said on BBC Question Time that he had actually voted for Remain. | |||
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" as I have already pointed out the report on this claim is the same one that says they need an artic of parts to make two cars which even you have admit is complete rubbish, if that part of the report is rubbish then you have to question everything in it, "Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries. “We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses. “From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.” Seems you know the ins and outs of Honda's business better than senior vice-president of Honda Ian Howells? N.b. A vehicle rolls off the Swindon line every 69 seconds, you do the maths Again, proof positive that Brexiters believe they know more than anyone else. Who knows more about Honda than Honda? Brexiters that's who.
I mean, do we believe that being the vice-President of a major car manufacturer makes you an expert on the subject or the industry? No, they don't believe in experts.
By the same token, who knows more about Audi, than the top boss of Audi in Germany? Remainers that's who.
When it was pointed out on the other thread that the top boss of Audi in Germany said last week the EU must do a good Brexit deal with the UK, then suddenly according to Remainers the top boss of Audi can't be believed.
And yet I bet you would struggle to provide at least two quotes that say "I don't believe the head of Audi". So why should we believe you? "Centaur, are you gonna admit you were wrong? | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon Richard Madeley said on BBC Question Time that he had actually voted for Remain. " Richard Madeley, that great authority on post Brexit EU relations...when he's not flogging pulp fiction in Smith's shop window | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon Richard Madeley said on BBC Question Time that he had actually voted for Remain. Richard Madeley, that great authority on post Brexit EU relations...when he's not flogging pulp fiction in Smith's shop window " It's amazing the people that Brexiters will, and won't listen to. NATO, No. Stephen Hawking, nah. MI5, MI6 & GCHQ, nope. Govenor of the BoE, no way. Richard Marley? Yes! It shows how ridiculous these people are. | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon Richard Madeley said on BBC Question Time that he had actually voted for Remain. Richard Madeley, that great authority on post Brexit EU relations...when he's not flogging pulp fiction in Smith's shop window " Funny how the likes of you didn't have a problem with him when he supported remain during the referendum campaign. | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon Richard Madeley said on BBC Question Time that he had actually voted for Remain. Richard Madeley, that great authority on post Brexit EU relations...when he's not flogging pulp fiction in Smith's shop window It's amazing the people that Brexiters will, and won't listen to. NATO, No. Stephen Hawking, nah. MI5, MI6 & GCHQ, nope. Govenor of the BoE, no way. Richard Marley? Yes! It shows how ridiculous these people are." Who is Richard Marley?
Many high ranking ex UK armed forces personnel backed Brexit, including former chief of defence staff Lord Guthrie, and General Sir Michael Rose. Former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove backed Brexit. Former Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King backed Brexit. Former director general of the British Chambers of commerce John Longworth backed Brexit. Former head of the CBI Lord Digby Jones backed brexit. These are the type of people Brexiters listened to. Your attempted characterisation that no experts backed Brexit is nonsensical in the extreme. | |||
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"What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave?" FFS! I do not know how many times and in how many ways I have answered this question over the last 2 years. So now I have a question for you: Are you being deliberately obtuse or is the fact that I got so fed up of 40 years of anti EU propaganda and spin from the 'the UK is so special we need need opt-outs and for the EU to do what we say when we say to remain in the EU', that I decided to help give you lot exactly what you want and then to watch you ch*ke on it beyond your euroskeptical, Reaganomics and Thatcherism is great Tory comprehension? | |||
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"Fucking hell Richard Madeley, you're gonna make a hole in the bottom of that barrel soon Richard Madeley said on BBC Question Time that he had actually voted for Remain. Richard Madeley, that great authority on post Brexit EU relations...when he's not flogging pulp fiction in Smith's shop window It's amazing the people that Brexiters will, and won't listen to. NATO, No. Stephen Hawking, nah. MI5, MI6 & GCHQ, nope. Govenor of the BoE, no way. Richard Marley? Yes! It shows how ridiculous these people are. Who is Richard Marley?
Many high ranking ex UK armed forces personnel backed Brexit, including former chief of defence staff Lord Guthrie, and General Sir Michael Rose. Former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove backed Brexit. Former Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King backed Brexit. Former director general of the British Chambers of commerce John Longworth backed Brexit. Former head of the CBI Lord Digby Jones backed brexit. These are the type of people Brexiters listened to. Your attempted characterisation that no experts backed Brexit is nonsensical in the extreme. "Hardly any experts backed Brexit! It virtually every single field, the majority of experts backed remain. To say that lots of experts backed Leave is akin to saying lots of experts think climate change is a myth. | |||
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"Jaguar Land Rover have just announced that the new discovery is to be produced in Slovakia, an EU country with the benefit of lower wages than the UK... Bye Bye car industry "Maybe not the new Discovery, the production of the Discovery, they'll be new ones though | |||
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"Was the Audi debate in the Part 1? I don’t recall it and it hasn’t jumped out from a quick skim. What was the crux of the argument ? Yes in part 1. About a quarter of the way down the thread. I made reference to Richard Madeley's comments on BBC Question Time last Thursday night, where he said that the top boss of Audi in Germany said last week that the EU must do a good Brexit deal with the UK. Richard Madeley was talking about business taking over influence in the negotiations. I think it was _xplicitlyrics who took issue with it, and said the top boss of Audi couldn't be believed and it was just a PR stunt. "Funny how you *still* don't mention Richard Reed's direct comeback on Madeley's comment: "Germany's biggest export market is the US and second is China. The UK's biggest export market is Germany. Who do you think holds the most negotiating power?" I already posted this on part 1. I suppose this kinda answers the question "what is a good deal?" but, most importantly, "for whom" (ultimately) | |||
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"What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave? FFS! I do not know how many times and in how many ways I have answered this question over the last 2 years. So now I have a question for you: Are you being deliberately obtuse or is the fact that I got so fed up of 40 years of anti EU propaganda and spin from the 'the UK is so special we need need opt-outs and for the EU to do what we say when we say to remain in the EU', that I decided to help give you lot exactly what you want and then to watch you ch*ke on it beyond your euroskeptical, Reaganomics and Thatcherism is great Tory comprehension?" I didn't ask why you voted Leave. What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave? | |||
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"What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave?" I want the brexiteers to get exactly what they want. Out meaning out of everything at midnight on the 30th. So come airport opening time no flights in or out of UK, nothing entering EU from UK without full customs clearance so ferries, ferry ports and chunnel grind to a halt within hours. With luck that is what we will get and within 48 hours May BoJo and the rest of her bunch of self serving tory and kipper chancers will be bolting for the exit before they get strung up by a country that is suddenly made face the reality of exactly what the EU does for us. And yes I was one of those who had a party to celibate when Thatcher shuffling off this mortal coil and bought https://youtu.be/r0TuXLrvyE4. | |||
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"What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave? I want the brexiteers to get exactly what they want. Out meaning out of everything at midnight on the 30th. So come airport opening time no flights in or out of UK, nothing entering EU from UK without full customs clearance so ferries, ferry ports and chunnel grind to a halt within hours. With luck that is what we will get and within 48 hours May BoJo and the rest of her bunch of self serving tory and kipper chancers will be bolting for the exit before they get strung up by a country that is suddenly made face the reality of exactly what the EU does for us. And yes I was one of those who had a party to celibate when Thatcher shuffling off this mortal coil and bought https://youtu.be/r0TuXLrvyE4." Spot on couldent have put it better myself | |||
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"What type of Brexit deal did you want/expect when you voted Leave? I want the brexiteers to get exactly what they want. Out meaning out of everything at midnight on the 30th. So come airport opening time no flights in or out of UK, nothing entering EU from UK without full customs clearance so ferries, ferry ports and chunnel grind to a halt within hours. With luck that is what we will get and within 48 hours May BoJo and the rest of her bunch of self serving tory and kipper chancers will be bolting for the exit before they get strung up by a country that is suddenly made face the reality of exactly what the EU does for us. And yes I was one of those who had a party to celibate when Thatcher shuffling off this mortal coil and bought https://youtu.be/r0TuXLrvyE4." Haven’t I read somewhere that you helped put Thatcher into power? | |||
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"Haven’t I read somewhere that you helped put Thatcher into power?" Yep, I believed Thatcher in 79 and I believed Blair in 97. I make mistakes, I generally trust and support politicians who sell themselves on policies designed to unite and give equality of opportunity. But I quickly work out and never forgive or forget when that trust is betrayed. On both of those occasions I was betrayed, maybe Corbyn will attempt to keep his word rather than betray my hope that he is genuine. | |||
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"Here is the reality as we stand today: https://youtu.be/7tSlPDfHUf4 The joke is that our government are so concerned with keeping the swivel-eyed brexiteers happy that even when faced with the stark reality as shown in the above piece Liam Fox our Trade Secretary refuses to even acknowledge that there could be a problem. With luck May and brexit will do to the Tories what Asquith and WW1 did to the Liberals." An interesting report there Will. I must say that I am surprised how few parts of a "British" car are make in the UK, and obviously, so are the government. | |||
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"An interesting report there Will. I must say that I am surprised how few parts of a "British" car are make in the UK, and obviously, so are the government. " None as blind... And from the last part of that report it is clear it is not a case of the government being given false information but that they are deliberately falsely reporting what they are told in order to bolster support for brexit. | |||
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"Haven’t I read somewhere that you helped put Thatcher into power? Yep, I believed Thatcher in 79 and I believed Blair in 97. I make mistakes, I generally trust and support politicians who sell themselves on policies designed to unite and give equality of opportunity. But I quickly work out and never forgive or forget when that trust is betrayed. On both of those occasions I was betrayed, maybe Corbyn will attempt to keep his word rather than betray my hope that he is genuine." So you're now placing your trust in Jeremy Corbyn? Didn't he vote Leave? | |||
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"Haven’t I read somewhere that you helped put Thatcher into power? Yep, I believed Thatcher in 79 and I believed Blair in 97. I make mistakes, I generally trust and support politicians who sell themselves on policies designed to unite and give equality of opportunity. But I quickly work out and never forgive or forget when that trust is betrayed. On both of those occasions I was betrayed, maybe Corbyn will attempt to keep his word rather than betray my hope that he is genuine. So you're now placing your trust in Jeremy Corbyn? Didn't he vote Leave?" Corbyn has principles! And if you don’t like them, he has others, (Apologies to Groucho ) | |||
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"So you're now placing your trust in Jeremy Corbyn? Didn't he vote Leave?" Nope, he said that there was lots about the EU he did not like but that when he examined the arguments he found he was 70/30 split in favour of the EU (the only leading MP not to be 100% leave or remain) and on that basis he campaigned for us to remain in the EU and he said that he voted to remain and would do so again in a second referendum. Against that you have May who was 100% remain who did not campaign for remain and now says she would vote leave in a second referendum. But hey why let facts get in the way of you attempting to spin what I have to say. Roll on April/May 19 when with luck you will UNLOS along with the rest of your shoal of herrings. | |||
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"So you're now placing your trust in Jeremy Corbyn? Didn't he vote Leave? Nope, he said that there was lots about the EU he did not like but that when he examined the arguments he found he was 70/30 split in favour of the EU (the only leading MP not to be 100% leave or remain) and on that basis he campaigned for us to remain in the EU and he said that he voted to remain and would do so again in a second referendum. Against that you have May who was 100% remain who did not campaign for remain and now says she would vote leave in a second referendum. But hey why let facts get in the way of you attempting to spin what I have to say. Roll on April/May 19 when with luck you will UNLOS along with the rest of your shoal of herrings. " I'm examining the facts...so let's look at them. If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why did he call for the immediate invocation of Article 50 the day after the European referendum in 2016 – the two year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why in December 2016, did he vote in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no latter than 31 March 2017? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why did he vote three times in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why in the summer of 2017 did he oppose Britain remaining in the Single Market? He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market! Did he really want to Remain? | |||
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"I'm examining the facts...so let's look at them. If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why did he call for the immediate invocation of Article 50 the day after the European referendum in 2016 – the two year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why in December 2016, did he vote in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no latter than 31 March 2017? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why did he vote three times in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why in the summer of 2017 did he oppose Britain remaining in the Single Market? He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market! Did he really want to Remain?" Yes, lets examine facts. The pig fucker said he would immediately trigger article 50 if he lost the vote. At the same time as JC said he would abide by the peoples choice. So the pig fucker and his successor fail to do what the Tories promised (nothing new there) but you find fault with JC for keeping his word and demanding that for once the tories do the same. I have reached the conclusion that you like those you follow would not recognise principle if it stood up and slapped you across the face with a ripe wet kipper. For your other 3 points see above because the same answer applies there too. | |||
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"Jaguar Land Rover have just announced that the new discovery is to be produced in Slovakia, an EU country with the benefit of lower wages than the UK... Bye Bye car industry "I see you live in Plymouth. Unlike you I actually live in the West Midlands area where Land Rover's Solihull factory is. Just saw the latest update on the Land Rover story on the BBC regional news programme called 'Midlands today'. Land Rover released a statement and have said that production of the Discovery model will be moving from the UK to Slovakia in the Autumn. This move will be to make way for the production of new Land Rover Hybrid and electric models at its UK Solihull facility. Land Rover said it is committed to keeping production of its newest models in Solihull in the UK and that investment running into the hundreds of millions will be put into Land Rover in the UK to research and develop and then manufacturer new Hybrid and electric Land Rovers in the UK. So not quite bye bye car industry as you seem to think then. | |||
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"So you're now placing your trust in Jeremy Corbyn? Didn't he vote Leave? Nope, he said that there was lots about the EU he did not like but that when he examined the arguments he found he was 70/30 split in favour of the EU (the only leading MP not to be 100% leave or remain) and on that basis he campaigned for us to remain in the EU and he said that he voted to remain and would do so again in a second referendum. Against that you have May who was 100% remain who did not campaign for remain and now says she would vote leave in a second referendum. But hey why let facts get in the way of you attempting to spin what I have to say. Roll on April/May 19 when with luck you will UNLOS along with the rest of your shoal of herrings. " Well there seems to be some dispute about which way Jeremy Corbyn voted in the EU referendum. It was reported in the news media the day after the referendum vote on 23rd June 2016, that Corbyn was overheard in a cafe near to his polling station saying that he had voted Leave. Considering he has been against the EU for pretty much the whole of his career through the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's it wouldn't be too surprising if he had voted Leave in the privacy of the polling booth. As for your claim that Corbyn campaigned for Remain during the EU referendum, compare and contrast it to his campaigning during the general election, there is no contest. Much like Theresa May, Corbyn was pretty much invisible during the EU referendum campaign, only making the bare minimum low key timid speeches supporting remain. Theresa May also did actually make one appearance on the BBC Andrew Marr show during the referendum campaign where she said she supported Remain. Corbyn's campaigning for remain was half hearted and lack lustre, it was blindingly obvious his heart wasn't in it, and was only doing it to placate the Blairite parliamentary Labour party. He would have much rather campaigned for leave and I think it was ex Labour MP and old friend of Corbyn, George Galloway who said Corbyn looked like a hostage in his own party during the EU referendum campaign. I've also just seen on BBC Newsnight that Corbyn intends to reject some of the Lords ammendments on the EU withdrawal bill tomorrow, specifically rejecting continued membership of the single market and the EEA (European economic area). | |||
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"but this is an outrageous play by JLR." Not really. The directors are only doing what they are legally required to do it is the government brexiteers who are enhancing JLD spin for their sectarian ends that are the real traitors to Britain here. And yes I deliberately called them traitors because that is what someone is who sells out their country. | |||
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"The Jaguar Land Rover press release today is as bad as the one they made in 2015 announcing that a new factory in Slovakia that would be “supporting” its continued investment in the UK. Imagine if the headlines then were that JLR was planning to ditch Discovery production in Solihull in favour of Slovakia. What a difference three years makes. The flawed argument is that JLR are planning to invest in the re-equipping and re-tooling of a factory in Slovakia that is only 18 months old in order to take over production of the Discovery. Plus, they are suggesting that they are also going to re_equip and re-tool the Solihull factory in order to build a future electric/hybrid vehicle. However, JLR could quite easily continue production of the Discovery in the UK and at best further invest in the U.K. for electric vehicles or at worst just re-equip and re-tool the Slovakia factory for the new vehicles. For anyone with even one iota of common sense this is a political move by JLR to protect an existing model from the risks of Brexit by moving it out of the UK and suggesting that there may be jam tomorrow whilst they watch Brexit actually play out. Of course the press release has been given more than its fair share of positive spin by Brexiters ever so keen to point out that losing production is actually a good thing because there will definitely be better and sweeter jam tomorrow. Call me cynical - but this is an outrageous play by JLR." Call it what you want but Slovakia is the low cost car manufacturing centre of Europe. I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry. | |||
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"I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry." So for months you have been coming on here posting pro brexit economic shit while you have been preparing a factory to replace the British JLR plant when Briton leaves the EU. BoJo and Farage would be proud of you. | |||
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"I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry. So for months you have been coming on here posting pro brexit economic shit while you have been preparing a factory to replace the British JLR plant when Briton leaves the EU. BoJo and Farage would be proud of you. " Done tooling for China as well. And Slovakia is not "replacing" the British JLR plant, rather it's "additional" to. | |||
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"I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry. So for months you have been coming on here posting pro brexit economic shit while you have been preparing a factory to replace the British JLR plant when Briton leaves the EU. BoJo and Farage would be proud of you. Done tooling for China as well. And Slovakia is not "replacing" the British JLR plant, rather it's "additional" to." That's OK then. Wouldnt want to expand our manufacturing base here in UK would we? | |||
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"I'm examining the facts...so let's look at them. If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why did he call for the immediate invocation of Article 50 the day after the European referendum in 2016 – the two year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why in December 2016, did he vote in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no latter than 31 March 2017? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why did he vote three times in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union? If, as you say, Jeremy Corbyn voted Remain, why in the summer of 2017 did he oppose Britain remaining in the Single Market? He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market! Did he really want to Remain? Yes, lets examine facts. The pig fucker said he would immediately trigger article 50 if he lost the vote. At the same time as JC said he would abide by the peoples choice. So the pig fucker and his successor fail to do what the Tories promised (nothing new there) but you find fault with JC for keeping his word and demanding that for once the tories do the same. I have reached the conclusion that you like those you follow would not recognise principle if it stood up and slapped you across the face with a ripe wet kipper. For your other 3 points see above because the same answer applies there too." "to abide by the choice of the British people"? Don't you think that was all too convenient? You've even said it wasn't the choice of the British people! What about the will of the people who voted Remain or who couldn't vote? As Leader of the Opposition the message should be an unequivocal and credible commitment to stop Brexit. If he voted Remain it was as Labour leader. If he was a man of principle he would voted as he has always done... He voted to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum. In 1993 he voted against the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty. In 2008 he voted against the Lisbon Treaty. In 2011 he voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so). In 2011 he opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. In 2012 he opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority. Of course JC kept his word. It was exactly the result he wanted. | |||
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"I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry. So for months you have been coming on here posting pro brexit economic shit while you have been preparing a factory to replace the British JLR plant when Briton leaves the EU. BoJo and Farage would be proud of you. Done tooling for China as well. And Slovakia is not "replacing" the British JLR plant, rather it's "additional" to. That's OK then. Wouldnt want to expand our manufacturing base here in UK would we? " Feel free to go for it. Plenty of engineering jobs around here up for grabs. | |||
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"but this is an outrageous play by JLR. Not really. The directors are only doing what they are legally required to do it is the government brexiteers who are enhancing JLD spin for their sectarian ends that are the real traitors to Britain here. And yes I deliberately called them traitors because that is what someone is who sells out their country." Didn't you vote Brexit? | |||
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"I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry. So for months you have been coming on here posting pro brexit economic shit while you have been preparing a factory to replace the British JLR plant when Briton leaves the EU. BoJo and Farage would be proud of you. Done tooling for China as well. And Slovakia is not "replacing" the British JLR plant, rather it's "additional" to." JLR: backing Brexit Britain | |||
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"JLR started negotiating with Slovakia at the beginning of 2015, well before Brexit. It needed to increase capacity and it became a race between Slovakia, Poland and Mexico. Given that Slovakia offered huge incentives to locate there, the others quickly fell away. VW, Audi, Porsche, Citroen and Kia have Slovakian plants, many American cars are produced in Mexico and all of Australian car production has ceased and gone to Thailand and Asia. Given all this, can anyone see the common factor? And it's not Brexit!" But apart from all that, its brexit and the Tory party right? Grrr! | |||
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"JLR started negotiating with Slovakia at the beginning of 2015, well before Brexit. It needed to increase capacity and it became a race between Slovakia, Poland and Mexico. Given that Slovakia offered huge incentives to locate there, the others quickly fell away. VW, Audi, Porsche, Citroen and Kia have Slovakian plants, many American cars are produced in Mexico and all of Australian car production has ceased and gone to Thailand and Asia. Given all this, can anyone see the common factor? And it's not Brexit!" Erm, is the common factor cheap labour? Won't this get worse with FTA with countries like India and China that Brexanomics is based on? | |||
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"The Jaguar Land Rover press release today is as bad as the one they made in 2015 announcing that a new factory in Slovakia that would be “supporting” its continued investment in the UK. Imagine if the headlines then were that JLR was planning to ditch Discovery production in Solihull in favour of Slovakia. What a difference three years makes. The flawed argument is that JLR are planning to invest in the re-equipping and re-tooling of a factory in Slovakia that is only 18 months old in order to take over production of the Discovery. Plus, they are suggesting that they are also going to re_equip and re-tool the Solihull factory in order to build a future electric/hybrid vehicle. However, JLR could quite easily continue production of the Discovery in the UK and at best further invest in the U.K. for electric vehicles or at worst just re-equip and re-tool the Slovakia factory for the new vehicles. For anyone with even one iota of common sense this is a political move by JLR to protect an existing model from the risks of Brexit by moving it out of the UK and suggesting that there may be jam tomorrow whilst they watch Brexit actually play out. Of course the press release has been given more than its fair share of positive spin by Brexiters ever so keen to point out that losing production is actually a good thing because there will definitely be better and sweeter jam tomorrow. Call me cynical - but this is an outrageous play by JLR. Call it what you want but Slovakia is the low cost car manufacturing centre of Europe. I have been "tooling" up the Slovakian JLR plant for months and cost is everything now in the global car industry." I managed part of the transition process of part of an engineering company to Slovakia 11 years ago.Moving part of the production process to a country with low cost base is nothing new and has been going on for a long time . | |||
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"I think Nissan will move out of Sunderland to somewhere in EU if don't get a deal with some sort of customs union. " How did the people of Sunderland vote? | |||
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"I think Nissan will move out of Sunderland to somewhere in EU if don't get a deal with some sort of customs union. " Some people think Elvis is still alive, doesn't mean it's true though.  | |||
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"Brexit and the air industry in the news this morning, if there is no deal then Airbus may depart along with 14000 jobs... Interestingly they have mentioned two non EU countries as possible new bases. It ok May saying we will have a deal but a lot of that rests with the remaining EU nations, a number of which have a veto option..." They already have a factory in China. | |||
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"I think Nissan will move out of Sunderland to somewhere in EU if don't get a deal with some sort of customs union. " But their Board of Directors might think that logistical barriers, customs delays, increased costs and disruption is a good thing and that "getting behind Brexit" is more important than keeping their business on track. That said, Upping sticks and moving elsewhere is going to be an expensive option. More likely that many of these industries that rely on JIT will just slowly reduce their investment levels and place new infrastructure outside the UK. Then when the models made in Sunderland reach the end of their life - that will be that. It seems inconceivable to me that the UK will not have some sort of Customs Union with the EU after what Airbus, Siemens and others have said - just this week. The likelihood is it will be a name dreamed up by Davis over a bottle of Port and sold to Brexiters as not actually being 'THE' Customs Union but actually better because it's 'A' customs union. | |||
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"Brexit and the air industry in the news this morning, if there is no deal then Airbus may depart along with 14000 jobs... Interestingly they have mentioned two non EU countries as possible new bases. It ok May saying we will have a deal but a lot of that rests with the remaining EU nations, a number of which have a veto option... They already have a factory in China." They may have more than one soon. And an extra 14000 members of staff. | |||
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"Quite a strongly worded and damning speech today by Mike Hawes, SMMT's chief executive. Can't post a link unfortunately but easy to find online." But what do the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders know about the car industry? Bugger all compare to an unemployed 59yr old uneducated bloke in Grimsby who has been told that any talk of Brexit not being gold plated perfection is pure project fear. | |||
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"Quite a strongly worded and damning speech today by Mike Hawes, SMMT's chief executive. Can't post a link unfortunately but easy to find online." This is the one where he points out that investment in the UK car industry has nearly halved since last year? Since then the news has gotten even worse with Nissan announcing that theyre halting their investment plans in the UK until theres more clarity on Brexit. | |||
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"JLR started negotiating with Slovakia at the beginning of 2015, well before Brexit. It needed to increase capacity and it became a race between Slovakia, Poland and Mexico. Given that Slovakia offered huge incentives to locate there, the others quickly fell away. VW, Audi, Porsche, Citroen and Kia have Slovakian plants, many American cars are produced in Mexico and all of Australian car production has ceased and gone to Thailand and Asia. Given all this, can anyone see the common factor? And it's not Brexit!" So JLR entered into negotiations with a country totally committed to the EU as soon as they found out that the pig fucker was offering an EU referendum in return for UKIP not opposing the Tories in the general election... | |||
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"JLR started negotiating with Slovakia at the beginning of 2015, well before Brexit. It needed to increase capacity and it became a race between Slovakia, Poland and Mexico. Given that Slovakia offered huge incentives to locate there, the others quickly fell away. VW, Audi, Porsche, Citroen and Kia have Slovakian plants, many American cars are produced in Mexico and all of Australian car production has ceased and gone to Thailand and Asia. Given all this, can anyone see the common factor? And it's not Brexit! So JLR entered into negotiations with a country totally committed to the EU as soon as they found out that the pig fucker was offering an EU referendum in return for UKIP not opposing the Tories in the general election..." And it had nothing to do with the €130,000,000 sweetener that the Slovakian government gave them. And you haven't mentioned that it's JLR's existing near end of life model that's moving, and that they are going to be building the new generation electric models in the UK plant. | |||
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"JLR started negotiating with Slovakia at the beginning of 2015, well before Brexit. It needed to increase capacity and it became a race between Slovakia, Poland and Mexico. Given that Slovakia offered huge incentives to locate there, the others quickly fell away. VW, Audi, Porsche, Citroen and Kia have Slovakian plants, many American cars are produced in Mexico and all of Australian car production has ceased and gone to Thailand and Asia. Given all this, can anyone see the common factor? And it's not Brexit! So JLR entered into negotiations with a country totally committed to the EU as soon as they found out that the pig fucker was offering an EU referendum in return for UKIP not opposing the Tories in the general election... And it had nothing to do with the €130,000,000 sweetener that the Slovakian government gave them. And you haven't mentioned that it's JLR's existing near end of life model that's moving, and that they are going to be building the new generation electric models in the UK plant." That would go against state aid rules, did the UK complain? | |||
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"JLR started negotiating with Slovakia at the beginning of 2015, well before Brexit. It needed to increase capacity and it became a race between Slovakia, Poland and Mexico. Given that Slovakia offered huge incentives to locate there, the others quickly fell away. VW, Audi, Porsche, Citroen and Kia have Slovakian plants, many American cars are produced in Mexico and all of Australian car production has ceased and gone to Thailand and Asia. Given all this, can anyone see the common factor? And it's not Brexit! So JLR entered into negotiations with a country totally committed to the EU as soon as they found out that the pig fucker was offering an EU referendum in return for UKIP not opposing the Tories in the general election... And it had nothing to do with the €130,000,000 sweetener that the Slovakian government gave them. And you haven't mentioned that it's JLR's existing near end of life model that's moving, and that they are going to be building the new generation electric models in the UK plant. That would go against state aid rules, did the UK complain? " It's being investigated. Too late now though. | |||
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" The last thing a remain supporting PM wants is a successful brexit." While I really can't see that, it does begger the question as to why there has been no planning for leaving. | |||
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" The last thing a remain supporting PM wants is a successful brexit. While I really can't see that, it does begger the question as to why there has been no planning for leaving." So you think that a PM who campaigned for remain will put all of her/his energy into making brexit a success? I admire your optimism. I think the plan is to let brexit fail. I feel kinda good because I'm a remainer. But bad that democracy will fail. | |||
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" making brexit a success?" I do so love the misguided thinking of a Brexiteer -it has a bit of a "charge of the light brigade" whiff about it | |||
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" making brexit a success? I do so love the misguided thinking of a Brexiteer -it has a bit of a "charge of the light brigade" whiff about it" If the country had just got behind the Light Brigade instead of airing their doubts, it would have been a different story.  | |||
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" making brexit a success? I do so love the misguided thinking of a Brexiteer -it has a bit of a "charge of the light brigade" whiff about it If the country had just got behind the Light Brigade instead of airing their doubts, it would have been a different story. "Trouble is we're all going down with the sinking ship. There's no point in being smug as the band drowns. | |||
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" The last thing a remain supporting PM wants is a successful brexit. While I really can't see that, it does begger the question as to why there has been no planning for leaving. So you think that a PM who campaigned for remain will put all of her/his energy into making brexit a success? I admire your optimism. I think the plan is to let brexit fail. I feel kinda good because I'm a remainer. But bad that democracy will fail. " its an odd situation, but let’s not forget the party who had the reforendum as part of their mandate, and who were probably the leading driving force of the out campaign, voted her in. And then we, the people, chose to (just about) vote for her party to re-elect her when we had the chance, rather than a party led by a eurosceptic. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners." They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.." So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then!" And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. " A pity that more people don't take that attitude. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. A pity that more people don't take that attitude." The real pity is that you want everyone to agree with *you*. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Because you're the great gazoo and you're never wrong (in your eyes). Thank fuck for civil liberties! | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. A pity that more people don't take that attitude. The real pity is that you want everyone to agree with *you*. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Because you're the great gazoo and you're never wrong (in your eyes). Thank fuck for civil liberties!" It's your right to wish the country to fail of course. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. A pity that more people don't take that attitude. The real pity is that you want everyone to agree with *you*. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Because you're the great gazoo and you're never wrong (in your eyes). Thank fuck for civil liberties! It's your right to wish the country to fail of course. "The country will fail because of how the 52% voted and because the Tories are sabotaging any possible good outcome/deal for brexit from within. So, whether "I wish the country to fail" or not (as the case may be), my wishes have not been and will not be respected neither in the case of the vote result nor in the good brexit deal we get (or, if Mogg and Johnson have anything to do with it, don't get). | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. A pity that more people don't take that attitude. The real pity is that you want everyone to agree with *you*. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Because you're the great gazoo and you're never wrong (in your eyes). Thank fuck for civil liberties! It's your right to wish the country to fail of course.
The country will fail because of how the 52% voted and because the Tories are sabotaging any possible good outcome/deal for brexit from within. So, whether "I wish the country to fail" or not (as the case may be), my wishes have not been and will not be respected neither in the case of the vote result nor in the good brexit deal we get (or, if Mogg and Johnson have anything to do with it, don't get)."It doesn't matter who voted leave or remain. It isn't the voters who failed or succeeded us. It's the government who could fail us. And it is no use pointing fingers at labour or Corbyn. It's the government in charge now. Let's judge may and BJ. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. A pity that more people don't take that attitude. The real pity is that you want everyone to agree with *you*. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Because you're the great gazoo and you're never wrong (in your eyes). Thank fuck for civil liberties! It's your right to wish the country to fail of course.
The country will fail because of how the 52% voted and because the Tories are sabotaging any possible good outcome/deal for brexit from within. So, whether "I wish the country to fail" or not (as the case may be), my wishes have not been and will not be respected neither in the case of the vote result nor in the good brexit deal we get (or, if Mogg and Johnson have anything to do with it, don't get)."It can't be healthy to feel that negative. | |||
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"No one is going to drown. Stop listening to Remoaners. They do sound like they'd be happy if it all went to pot just so they can say "told you so" as their Tesla is repossessed.. So true. Assuming that Tesla are not bust by then! And don't get me wrong, i voted remain but leave won. Let's move on as a country and make it work. A pity that more people don't take that attitude. The real pity is that you want everyone to agree with *you*. Regardless of whether you're right or wrong. Because you're the great gazoo and you're never wrong (in your eyes). Thank fuck for civil liberties! It's your right to wish the country to fail of course.
The country will fail because of how the 52% voted and because the Tories are sabotaging any possible good outcome/deal for brexit from within. So, whether "I wish the country to fail" or not (as the case may be), my wishes have not been and will not be respected neither in the case of the vote result nor in the good brexit deal we get (or, if Mogg and Johnson have anything to do with it, don't get).
It can't be healthy to feel that negative. "It's not healthy to live in fantasy land drowned in denial either. You call it "unhealthy negativity", I call it "I have eyes and ears and use them to observe what's happening around me". Otherwise known as "realism". Just because I don't want to believe in unicorns until I actually see them, doesn't make my attitude any less healthy than yours | |||
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"Just because I don't want to believe in unicorns until I actually see them, doesn't make my attitude any less healthy than yours "Did I ever mention that I just happen to be a Unicorn | |||
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"BMW today disclosed contingency plans to switch production of the Mini from the UK to the Netherlands in the event of a bad Brexit. " “Adjust volumes” | |||
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"BMW today disclosed contingency plans to switch production of the Mini from the UK to the Netherlands in the event of a bad Brexit. “Adjust volumes” " Lets get a deal done then ! | |||
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