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Brexit . What I'd we just leave ?
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"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. " if that's the case the E U would want us to just leave then surely ? | |||
Are we not passed the point of this nonsense argument?
Britain would be fucked if they left. May knows it thats why she capitulated in December and gave the EU everything it wanted.
Davis knows it, thats why he capitulated in the "Battle of the Summer" that was conceded before the first tea break on the first day.
All this idea does is highlight how little people understand of the situation. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. if that's the case the E U would want us to just leave then surely ?" Well no, because we're not looking to be cunts and bring our neighbour to its knees. EU countries antipathy towards Britain is restricted to friendly rivalry in sporting events. We dont actually want to do you harm. All the EU is doing is making sure that Brexit doesnt poison the rest of Europe and the EU project. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. if that's the case the E U would want us to just leave then surely ? Well no, because we're not looking to be cunts and bring our neighbour to its knees. EU countries antipathy towards Britain is restricted to friendly rivalry in sporting events. We dont actually want to do you harm. All the EU is doing is making sure that Brexit doesnt poison the rest of Europe and the EU project." Ireland May wish us no harm but I'm not sure about the Rest . Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho ! | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. if that's the case the E U would want us to just leave then surely ?" Why would the EU want to strand it's planes? Leave it's food exported to rot? Lose millions of customers over night? Criminalise millions of it's citizens etc? The EU doesn't want us to leave, but we have chosen to do so and it respects that. It's the UK government who are fucking about and acting lile spoilt children. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. " And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed. 
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. "The OP is not talking about a no deal scenario in the future, he is asking about us unilaterally leaving tomorrow. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above.
The OP is not talking about a no deal scenario in the future, he is asking about us unilaterally leaving tomorrow. "That's funny I just read the OP, and the word 'tomorrow' doesn't appear once in the opening post on this thread. The word 'tomorrow' is not in the thread title either. Maybe another case of CLCC hallucinating again. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above.
The OP is not talking about a no deal scenario in the future, he is asking about us unilaterally leaving tomorrow.
That's funny I just read the OP, and the word 'tomorrow' doesn't appear once in the opening post on this thread. The word 'tomorrow' is not in the thread title either. Maybe another case of CLCC hallucinating again. "Well we will let the OP adjudicate then. OP, were you talking about a "no deal" scenario at the end of a length negotiation period and transitional arrangement period, or were you essentially asking about a situation where we walk away from the negotiating table today and leave tomorrow? | |||
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"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. " Make a great disaster movie | |||
"The world would end ...i think not ..all bollocks....the eu will not be the same in 5 years anyway ...it will soon fall apart ..." Anti-EU crowd has been saying the EU is gonna fall apart in 5 years for as long as I remember. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Make a great disaster movie "Don't forget the giant Squirrel's. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. " Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily?" Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items." Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. " Boom, you've just fallen foul of the WTO most favoured nation rules. Here come massive penalties from the WTO and grievances/court cases from countries around the world that you had hoped to do FTAs with. Well done. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. Boom, you've just fallen foul of the WTO most favoured nation rules. Here come massive penalties from the WTO and grievances/court cases from countries around the world that you had hoped to do FTAs with. Well done. " Not quite. As Jacob Rees Mogg pointed out on his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show a couple of weeks ago. The UK would have upto 10 years to put in place new rules/arrangements legally within the framework of the WTO. Suggest you go watch the interview if you don't believe it. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. Boom, you've just fallen foul of the WTO most favoured nation rules. Here come massive penalties from the WTO and grievances/court cases from countries around the world that you had hoped to do FTAs with. Well done. Not quite. As Jacob Rees Mogg pointed out on his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show a couple of weeks ago. The UK would have upto 10 years to put in place new rules/arrangements legally within the framework of the WTO. Suggest you go watch the interview if you don't believe it. " In the same way that Trump has 10 years without anyone taking the US to court over metal tariffs? Erm.... NOPE! | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above.
The OP is not talking about a no deal scenario in the future, he is asking about us unilaterally leaving tomorrow. "Yes that's correct and Yes I Would !!! It would be hard , but thier comes a time to put up or Shut up . We have to get on with it . We can't go back now and we won't get a good deal , they can't let us . | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above.
The OP is not talking about a no deal scenario in the future, he is asking about us unilaterally leaving tomorrow.
That's funny I just read the OP, and the word 'tomorrow' doesn't appear once in the opening post on this thread. The word 'tomorrow' is not in the thread title either. Maybe another case of CLCC hallucinating again.
Well we will let the OP adjudicate then.
OP, were you talking about a "no deal" scenario at the end of a length negotiation period and transitional arrangement period, or were you essentially asking about a situation where we walk away from the negotiating table today and leave tomorrow? "Leave now this second ! | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. Boom, you've just fallen foul of the WTO most favoured nation rules. Here come massive penalties from the WTO and grievances/court cases from countries around the world that you had hoped to do FTAs with. Well done. Not quite. As Jacob Rees Mogg pointed out on his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show a couple of weeks ago. The UK would have upto 10 years to put in place new rules/arrangements legally within the framework of the WTO. Suggest you go watch the interview if you don't believe it. In the same way that Trump has 10 years without anyone taking the US to court over metal tariffs? Erm.... NOPE! "Wow, how did you manage to watch 20 minutes of Jacob Rees Mogg's BBC Andrew Marr interview in less than 2 minutes? | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. Y Boom, you've just fallen foul of the WTO most favoured nation rules. Here come massive penalties from the WTO and grievances/court cases from countries around the world that you had hoped to do FTAs with. Well done. " Well done? I didn't do it. I asked a question. You can tell it was a question by the question mark at the end of it. | |||
"The world would end ...i think not ..all bollocks....the eu will not be the same in 5 years anyway ...it will soon fall apart ... Anti-EU crowd has been saying the EU is gonna fall apart in 5 years for as long as I remember." Nearly as long as Arsene Wenger's 5 year plan for Arsenal then! | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. "centy!!!! really!!!!..... anytime there is an issue with dover or the channel tunnel the m20 is basically turned into the worlds largest car park.... you get a no deal with no planning, and it will be that times 10!!!!!!!!! | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. " The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess)." I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! " We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, answers your original question. | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question." Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be ! | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. Would EU imports struggle to get in though? Surely that would be up to the UK to decide what it let's in and how easily? Well firstly the government haven't told the ports what can come in and what can't, or what taxes/duty needs to charged on those items. Id imagine they'd say carry on as normal lads...we will alter things as we go. Its not that big a problem if you don't want it to be. Boom, you've just fallen foul of the WTO most favoured nation rules. Here come massive penalties from the WTO and grievances/court cases from countries around the world that you had hoped to do FTAs with. Well done. Not quite. As Jacob Rees Mogg pointed out on his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show a couple of weeks ago. The UK would have upto 10 years to put in place new rules/arrangements legally within the framework of the WTO. Suggest you go watch the interview if you don't believe it. In the same way that Trump has 10 years without anyone taking the US to court over metal tariffs? Erm.... NOPE!
Wow, how did you manage to watch 20 minutes of Jacob Rees Mogg's BBC Andrew Marr interview in less than 2 minutes? "As was explained to you previously JRMs 10 year plan only works if the EU agrees to it. Which they wont. | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above.
centy!!!! really!!!!..... anytime there is an issue with dover or the channel tunnel the m20 is basically turned into the worlds largest car park.... you get a no deal with no planning, and it will be that times 10!!!!!!!!!"I seen where there is plan in place to use a section of the m20 between junctions 8 and 9 as a park for trucks waiting to get to the port , it will be grand cars can go back on to national roads to avoid that section of motorway | |||
"Not to be hyperbolic about it, but life as we know it today would come to a halt. Planes would be grounded, unable to fly through European airspace which surrounds the UK. Ports would be in chaos without any customs arrangements. British goods wouldn't leave, and EU and other goods would struggle to get into the UK. This would affect everything from drugs in hospitals to the food on supermarket shelves. The 3.7m EU citizens and 1.3m UK citizens living in each other's territory would become illegal immigrants, instantly criminalizing 5m people. These would be detained and deported causes huge pressure on local authorities who would have to house them. These are just the tip of the iceberg. This scenario would not go on indefinitely, but would take time to settle, so basically the negotiations would have to start again. And this above folks is what Jacob Rees Mogg was referring to at the weekend when he said Project Fear was now on speed.
MEP Daniel Hannan wrote in a newspaper article today that he's surprised remain scaremongers haven't warned about an attack of giant squirrels in the event of no deal.
Your scaremongering really is that nonsensical now.
The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above.
centy!!!! really!!!!..... anytime there is an issue with dover or the channel tunnel the m20 is basically turned into the worlds largest car park.... you get a no deal with no planning, and it will be that times 10!!!!!!!!!"However the queues to which you are referring are due to weather conditions. We currently ship goods from all over the world through the various East Ports . It is difficult to see why leaving the EU would make much difference . The current clearance system just needs a few tweaks. | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question. Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be !" You do realise we don't live in a cave, right? And what does the EU have to worry about exactly? It's because of that arrogance that we're getting nowhere fast both with regards to brexit but also with regards to our future trade deals. We think we're so much better than everyone else that we'll go into negotiations saying "bend over, I'm about to screw you" and expect the other party to assume the position before we've even finished our sentence. I mean....seriously?! And once again, you do realise we don't live in a cave, right? | |||
" Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho !" Lol Walking away from the EU with no agreement means the entire UK will be surrounded by a hard border. | |||
" It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! " Brexit in a nutshell. No plan, a blind refusal to acknowledge problems; just gung ho patriotism and soundbites which will solve absolutely nothing. | |||
" Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho ! Lol Walking away from the EU with no agreement means the entire UK will be surrounded by a hard border. " Like it or not this is what the UK voted for, to have control over its borders. | |||
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" It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! " slight issue there..... 2 of those 4 nations voted to stay... 
you want two nations to drag the other 2 along... and your 4 nations will quickly become 2....
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" Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho ! Lol Walking away from the EU with no agreement means the entire UK will be surrounded by a hard border. Like it or not this is what the UK voted for, to have control over its borders. " So which referendum takes precedent, the one on the GFA, or the one on the EU? | |||
" It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! slight issue there..... 2 of those 4 nations voted to stay...
you want two nations to drag the other 2 along... and your 4 nations will quickly become 2....
"what about the other side of that coin Fabio you want the two nations that voted remain to keep the other two that voted leave in the eu won’t that quickly become 2 ? | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question. Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be ! You do realise we don't live in a cave, right? And what does the EU have to worry about exactly? It's because of that arrogance that we're getting nowhere fast both with regards to brexit but also with regards to our future trade deals. We think we're so much better than everyone else that we'll go into negotiations saying "bend over, I'm about to screw you" and expect the other party to assume the position before we've even finished our sentence. I mean....seriously?! And once again, you do realise we don't live in a cave, right?" You don't ? Well yes we all live in caves up here ?? I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ? | |||
" It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! slight issue there..... 2 of those 4 nations voted to stay...
you want two nations to drag the other 2 along... and your 4 nations will quickly become 2....
what about the other side of that coin Fabio you want the two nations that voted remain to keep the other two that voted leave in the eu won’t that quickly become 2 ?"to Clarify is be happ to have 4 independent nations if they wanted it ? Snag is the E U don't want the Scots on thier own ! | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question. Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be ! You do realise we don't live in a cave, right? And what does the EU have to worry about exactly? It's because of that arrogance that we're getting nowhere fast both with regards to brexit but also with regards to our future trade deals. We think we're so much better than everyone else that we'll go into negotiations saying "bend over, I'm about to screw you" and expect the other party to assume the position before we've even finished our sentence. I mean....seriously?! And once again, you do realise we don't live in a cave, right? You don't ? Well yes we all live in caves up here ?? I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ?" But your version of freedom is, to some people, akin to freedom from farmers so you starve, freedom from landlords so you have no where to live or freedom from clothes in a snowstorm so you freeze. | |||
" Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho ! Lol Walking away from the EU with no agreement means the entire UK will be surrounded by a hard border. Yes, I agree. Except the barricades to people they thought they were voting will also be barriers to good, services and capital. The EU has been consistent from day one - you cannot cherry-pick the four freedoms of the single market. Like it or not this is what the UK voted for, to have control over its borders. " | |||
" We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? " Yep. But if you want to turn back the clock, the other 27 countries to whom the UK exports almost half its trade to also need to turn back the clock. And that isn't going to happen. | |||
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"Who runs the eu ....the Germans.. so nothing in Europe has changed in almost 100 years....its just the way they go about it that's different.....ps on holidays last year I think they are now invading the eu in camper vans ...there are German registered ones on every corner ..." In what way do the Germans run the EU? Do they have more MEPs than everyone else combined? Are they the only country with a veto? Do only German judges sit on the ECJ? Do they get more commissioners than everyone else combined? | |||
" I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ?" If you dont understand what your negotiating for then you need to start paying attention to whats going on. Divorce bill: UK made legal agreements to pay a certain things. The UK now wants to break that. Like any agreement you need to negotiate an end if you want to cancel early. Northern Ireland: The UK has a legal agreement on how the North functions in regard to the Republic (and by extension the EU) youre negotiating what the future relationship will be. Citizen rights: Negotiating the future rights of British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK. Trade: Negotiating the future trade agreement. The negotiations, apart from settling debts in the divorce bill, is about the future, not negotiating the past. | |||
" I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ? If you dont understand what your negotiating for then you need to start paying attention to whats going on. Divorce bill: UK made legal agreements to pay a certain things. The UK now wants to break that. Like any agreement you need to negotiate an end if you want to cancel early. Northern Ireland: The UK has a legal agreement on how the North functions in regard to the Republic (and by extension the EU) youre negotiating what the future relationship will be. Citizen rights: Negotiating the future rights of British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK. Trade: Negotiating the future trade agreement. The negotiations, apart from settling debts in the divorce bill, is about the future, not negotiating the past."
In addition, as I mentioned on another thread, the Dutch government (and the EU followed suit later) has warned/advised their businesses to avoid buying components from the Uk and look for alternatives from within the Eu in order to minimise manufacturing issues. This applies to small items like safety valves to larger items like car/airplane parts. This has sent *our* businesses in a panic (large and small) because for quite a few of them, the Eu is their largest, if not only, customer. This is the Eu making plans for a no-deal brexit, like you suggest. Do you think many of these companies can just sit and twiddle their thumbs while waiting a number of years for our government to sort out new trade deals with far away, cheaper markets (which in itself is a loss)? My guess is most of them will have to close down.
Also, and again in the same report by Faisal Islam as the things I mention above, an extention to the "rules of origin" (which is why the EU has issued those warnings) is affecting *our* car industry in an additional way: as it stands at the moment, British cars do NOT qualify for free trade deals with the rest of the world because their components are only around 25% British which is less than half short of the 55% needed in order to qualify. Can you imagine how catastrophic this will be for our industry?
Lastly, the biggest advances in technology have happened in the last 40-50 years, while we were a member of the EU. Cross-manufacturing has become so interconnected that leaving without a deal (or, even, leaving with an inadequate deal) will mean that many areas will grind to a halt.
I promise you this is *not* project fear. If you don't believe me, find and watch the "All out politics" on sky from 10-10:30am today and make up your own mind. | |||
" I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ? If you dont understand what your negotiating for then you need to start paying attention to whats going on. Divorce bill: UK made legal agreements to pay a certain things. The UK now wants to break that. Like any agreement you need to negotiate an end if you want to cancel early. Northern Ireland: The UK has a legal agreement on how the North functions in regard to the Republic (and by extension the EU) youre negotiating what the future relationship will be. Citizen rights: Negotiating the future rights of British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK. Trade: Negotiating the future trade agreement. The negotiations, apart from settling debts in the divorce bill, is about the future, not negotiating the past.
In addition, as I mentioned on another thread, the Dutch government (and the EU followed suit later) has warned/advised their businesses to avoid buying components from the Uk and look for alternatives from within the Eu in order to minimise manufacturing issues. This applies to small items like safety valves to larger items like car/airplane parts. This has sent *our* businesses in a panic (large and small) because for quite a few of them, the Eu is their largest, if not only, customer. This is the Eu making plans for a no-deal brexit, like you suggest. Do you think many of these companies can just sit and twiddle their thumbs while waiting a number of years for our government to sort out new trade deals with far away, cheaper markets (which in itself is a loss)? My guess is most of them will have to close down.
Also, and again in the same report by Faisal Islam as the things I mention above, an extention to the "rules of origin" (which is why the EU has issued those warnings) is affecting *our* car industry in an additional way: as it stands at the moment, British cars do NOT qualify for free trade deals with the rest of the world because their components are only around 25% British which is less than half short of the 55% needed in order to qualify. Can you imagine how catastrophic this will be for our industry?
Lastly, the biggest advances in technology have happened in the last 40-50 years, while we were a member of the EU. Cross-manufacturing has become so interconnected that leaving without a deal (or, even, leaving with an inadequate deal) will mean that many areas will grind to a halt.
I promise you this is *not* project fear. If you don't believe me, find and watch the "All out politics" on sky from 10-10:30am today and make up your own mind."ok in the name of sensible debate , let's say all of the above is true ! If it is so one sided why should the E U offer us a Deal at all ? | |||
"The world would end ...i think not ..all bollocks....the eu will not be the same in 5 years anyway ...it will soon fall apart ..." Dream on....the EU will change, but it wont fall apart | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question. Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be ! You do realise we don't live in a cave, right? And what does the EU have to worry about exactly? It's because of that arrogance that we're getting nowhere fast both with regards to brexit but also with regards to our future trade deals. We think we're so much better than everyone else that we'll go into negotiations saying "bend over, I'm about to screw you" and expect the other party to assume the position before we've even finished our sentence. I mean....seriously?! And once again, you do realise we don't live in a cave, right? You don't ? Well yes we all live in caves up here ?? I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ?" You do realise that the world has changed substantially in the last 40 odd years dont you? Before we joined, this country was a basket case | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question. Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be !" This facile line of argument simply illustrates the fact that most people havent got the slightest clue about the implications of flouncing out with no deal. I despair. | |||
"The world would end ...i think not ..all bollocks....the eu will not be the same in 5 years anyway ...it will soon fall apart ... Dream on....the EU will change, but it wont fall apart" Change to what? | |||
" ok in the name of sensible debate , let's say all of the above is true ! If it is so one sided why should the E U offer us a Deal at all ?" Because the EU doesnt hate Britain the way Brexiters hate the EU. The EU isnt interested in bringing the UK to its knees the way some Brexiters on this forum get a hard on for bad news for the EU. Let me put it in terms you might follow better (if youre a football fan). West Ham fans hate United and enjoy seeing them fail. United as a club have no interest in seeing West Ham fall apart even if it would mean they might get some benefit from it (getting Arnautovic, a competitor out of the way etc.). If West Ham implode the way Leeds or Portsmouth did then thats what happens, but United will go at least some way to prevent that (United paid the fee for Alan Smith in full up front despite basically all transfers being paid over 3 - 4 seasons at the time, this was done to help alleviate Leeds debt issues). West Ham fans are Brexiters. The club (United) are the EU, Arnautovic is businesses. | |||
" ok in the name of sensible debate , let's say all of the above is true ! If it is so one sided why should the E U offer us a Deal at all ? Because the EU doesnt hate Britain the way Brexiters hate the EU. The EU isnt interested in bringing the UK to its knees the way some Brexiters on this forum get a hard on for bad news for the EU. Let me put it in terms you might follow better (if youre a football fan). West Ham fans hate United and enjoy seeing them fail. United as a club have no interest in seeing West Ham fall apart even if it would mean they might get some benefit from it (getting Arnautovic, a competitor out of the way etc.). If West Ham implode the way Leeds or Portsmouth did then thats what happens, but United will go at least some way to prevent that (United paid the fee for Alan Smith in full up front despite basically all transfers being paid over 3 - 4 seasons at the time, this was done to help alleviate Leeds debt issues). West Ham fans are Brexiters. The club (United) are the EU, Arnautovic is businesses." . And a lot of the United players are West Ham fans | |||
" Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho ! Lol Walking away from the EU with no agreement means the entire UK will be surrounded by a hard border. Like it or not this is what the UK voted for, to have control over its borders. " So to have control over our borders we must have a border in NI too. | |||
" Time to Call the Bluff and leave now tomorrow ! No Hard border with Ireland tho ! Lol Walking away from the EU with no agreement means the entire UK will be surrounded by a hard border. Like it or not this is what the UK voted for, to have control over its borders. So to have control over our borders we must have a border in NI too." I would say that control over our borders is the wrong term that has been used throughout the debate. We already have control over our borders and the more people who come to visit the country the better. The term that should be used is control over who gets a National Insurance number | |||
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" I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ? If you dont understand what your negotiating for then you need to start paying attention to whats going on. Divorce bill: UK made legal agreements to pay a certain things. The UK now wants to break that. Like any agreement you need to negotiate an end if you want to cancel early. Northern Ireland: The UK has a legal agreement on how the North functions in regard to the Republic (and by extension the EU) youre negotiating what the future relationship will be. Citizen rights: Negotiating the future rights of British citizens in the EU and EU citizens in the UK. Trade: Negotiating the future trade agreement. The negotiations, apart from settling debts in the divorce bill, is about the future, not negotiating the past.
In addition, as I mentioned on another thread, the Dutch government (and the EU followed suit later) has warned/advised their businesses to avoid buying components from the Uk and look for alternatives from within the Eu in order to minimise manufacturing issues. This applies to small items like safety valves to larger items like car/airplane parts. This has sent *our* businesses in a panic (large and small) because for quite a few of them, the Eu is their largest, if not only, customer. This is the Eu making plans for a no-deal brexit, like you suggest. Do you think many of these companies can just sit and twiddle their thumbs while waiting a number of years for our government to sort out new trade deals with far away, cheaper markets (which in itself is a loss)? My guess is most of them will have to close down.
Also, and again in the same report by Faisal Islam as the things I mention above, an extention to the "rules of origin" (which is why the EU has issued those warnings) is affecting *our* car industry in an additional way: as it stands at the moment, British cars do NOT qualify for free trade deals with the rest of the world because their components are only around 25% British which is less than half short of the 55% needed in order to qualify. Can you imagine how catastrophic this will be for our industry?
Lastly, the biggest advances in technology have happened in the last 40-50 years, while we were a member of the EU. Cross-manufacturing has become so interconnected that leaving without a deal (or, even, leaving with an inadequate deal) will mean that many areas will grind to a halt.
I promise you this is *not* project fear. If you don't believe me, find and watch the "All out politics" on sky from 10-10:30am today and make up your own mind. ok in the name of sensible debate , let's say all of the above is true !
If it is so one sided why should the E U offer us a Deal at all ?"Thank you, I appreciate your good will in facilitating debate. To answer your question: it is not one sided. It's a partnership. Both benefit from it and, unlike us, the EU understand that cutting your nose to spite your face, unltimately, benefits no one. Contrary to what we've been bombarded with by the leave campaign and politicians, we need them *as much* as they need us. No more, no less. Everyone wins from a good deal, which is why it's in *our* interest, as well as theirs, to agree on those terms first before we set sail for the uncertain unknown. | |||
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" Leaving is all about immigration. Immigration is ruining the country. Rising violent crime in areas of non indigenous people illustrates this. Immigrants come to England ( not the UK ) because they think its a wealthy, successful country. So clean break with the EU. Fuck the economy. Everyone's in poverty, immigrants leave and others stop coming. Job done... Or is it..." I'm pure Brexit ! But why would immigrants have to leave ? Or stop coming ? The only immigration difference is that we choose our immigration policy . If you think Brexit is solely about immigration you clearly Don't Get It !!! | |||
" Leaving is all about immigration. Immigration is ruining the country. Rising violent crime in areas of non indigenous people illustrates this. Immigrants come to England ( not the UK ) because they think its a wealthy, successful country. So clean break with the EU. Fuck the economy. Everyone's in poverty, immigrants leave and others stop coming. Job done... Or is it... I'm pure Brexit ! But why would immigrants have to leave ? Or stop coming ? The only immigration difference is that we choose our immigration policy . If you think Brexit is solely about immigration you clearly Don't Get It !!!" | |||
" Leaving is all about immigration. Immigration is ruining the country. Rising violent crime in areas of non indigenous people illustrates this. Immigrants come to England ( not the UK ) because they think its a wealthy, successful country. So clean break with the EU. Fuck the economy. Everyone's in poverty, immigrants leave and others stop coming. Job done... Or is it... I'm pure Brexit ! But why would immigrants have to leave ? Or stop coming ? The only immigration difference is that we choose our immigration policy . If you think Brexit is solely about immigration you clearly Don't Get It !!!" To be honest, I don’t. And have found it a struggle for many to explain it to me. I take your point on immigration. I’m a little cynical if we have full powers we’d use them in the way the people want. After all, we failed to use the powers we have at the moment. So it seems a bit like we want to feel we have control ... if we wanted to. Rather than actually having control will make any difference in the here and now. A safety valve if you will. | |||
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"I think you are missing Clems point guys " You get used to it after a while. People like to shoot from the hip. | |||
 | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? "I think they were drowned out by the people who want to bend over and let Brussels fuck them in the ass. | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas?
I think they were drowned out by the people who want to bend over and let Brussels fuck them in the ass."They were busy bent over, being fucked bareback in the arse by the power hungry, don't give a damn about the people, politicians in their omni-shambles brexit pursuit. | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? "No ! Still say just leave !!! | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!"I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down. Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place. So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option. | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option."Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars  | |||
"The world would end ...i think not ..all bollocks....the eu will not be the same in 5 years anyway ...it will soon fall apart ..." I wouldn't even give it 5 years | |||
" Leaving is all about immigration. Immigration is ruining the country. Rising violent crime in areas of non indigenous people illustrates this. Immigrants come to England ( not the UK ) because they think its a wealthy, successful country. So clean break with the EU. Fuck the economy. Everyone's in poverty, immigrants leave and others stop coming. Job done... Or is it... I'm pure Brexit ! But why would immigrants have to leave ? Or stop coming ? The only immigration difference is that we choose our immigration policy . If you think Brexit is solely about immigration you clearly Don't Get It !!!" as far as I'm concerned it was about the EU getting too big for their boots . | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!"You can say it but you'll need a solution to all of the issues that this would cause all of the UK. | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option.
Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars "Now your talking ?? | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option.
Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars Now your talking ??"No. I'm typing  | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option.
Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars Now your talking ??
No. I'm typing " | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option.
Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars Now your talking ??
No. I'm typing "Still like your Scenario tho ?? | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option.
Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars Now your talking ??
No. I'm typing Still like your Scenario tho ??"Good, init? | |||
"Whatever happened to the 'just leave now, immediately' people? Will we get some peace and riddance to the most stupid of ideas? No !
Still say just leave !!!
I am fairly sure that people who write these things are simply trolling or are frighteningly stupid and are unable to comprehend anything other than yes/no, left/right and up/down.
Our laws are inexorably linked to EU law and no deal puts into a zone of lawlessness. For example, if there was not a deal in place between the CAA and EASA because “we just left” there would not be any legislation in place to enable U.K. based carriers to fly into the EU and to enable EU based carriers to fly into the UK. If there is no legislation in place then no insurance can be in place and if no insurance is in place then aircraft don’t fly. That is not a doomsday scenario, it is a self evident series of events that will occur without a deal being in place.
So add to that.... cross border travel by people and trade - rights of U.K. citizens in the EU and vice versa, medicine recognition and distribution, the Irish border etc etc
No one can seriously suggest that walking away with no deal is in any way a viable option.
Brexiteers don't need rules, laws, etc. They'll exercise their democratic rights and the planes will fly anywhere they like - even Mars Now your talking ??
No. I'm typing Still like your Scenario tho ??
Good, init? "It will be once we have left ! | |||
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"We're the UK..... we can do what the fuck we want, when we want & how we want to do it..... didn't you know "if we were just England we might be able to ???? | |||
" (...) The Home secretary Sajid Javid said in his interview on the BBC Andrew Marr show on Sunday that he didn't recognise any of the scenario's CLCC described above and he'd looked at planning for no deal in his department. He said Planning has gone into a no deal scenario especially around ports to avoid the kind of scenario CLCC is scaremongering about above. The Sajid Javid who in the same interview said that some of the illegally deported British citizens from the Windrush scandal would *not* be repatriated? The Sajid Javid who rejected official calls for an independent inquiry into islamophobia within the Tory party? That Sajid Javid?! Of course he didn't recognise those scenarios. He's too busy being a hypocrite, therefore his word counts for fuck all. ------- As for the OP, if it was that easy or uncomplicated or as straightfoward as we were promised by the Leave campaign, Theresa May would have done it over a year ago rather than almost being dismembered in her party's vicious tug of war for over 2 years now. Either she's a masochist or being responsible for condemning the country to shit isn't really what she wants her legacy to be (she's learned that lesson from her predecessor I guess). I don't think it will be easy but I do think some quick pain now rather than a continuous ache is better ! It's time to Stand as a Nation , well 4 Nations , and be counted ! We're not talking about "some quick pain now". We're talking about logistical nightmares and even legal obstacles, but to name a couple of things. As I said, if there was even a remote possibility that it could be done with "some quick pain now" (and nothing else), Theresa would have done it the day after triggering A50 for sure. But she hasn't. Which, in a roundabout way, -0.045270477546822answers your original question. Not really as I don't believe she wants to leave ! I as did many others voted to leave on the basis we would do just that ! Let the E U do the worrying , we are quite capable as a nation of looking after ourselves or should be ! You do realise we don't live in a cave, right? And what does the EU have to worry about exactly? It's because of that arrogance that we're getting nowhere fast both with regards to brexit but also with regards to our future trade deals. We think we're so much better than everyone else that we'll go into negotiations saying "bend over, I'm about to screw you" and expect the other party to assume the position before we've even finished our sentence. I mean....seriously?! And once again, you do realise we don't live in a cave, right? You don't ? Well yes we all live in caves up here ?? I'm not Arrogant at all , I just don't see why you need to negotiate to leave something ? I can understand negotiating to Join ? We lived ok before the E U didn't we ? Or is it Freedom your against ?" If being known as "The sick man of Europe" is your idea of OK then I guess so. | |||
" centy!!!! really!!!!..... anytime there is an issue with dover or the channel tunnel the m20 is basically turned into the worlds largest car park.... you get a no deal with no planning, and it will be that times 10!!!!!!!!! However the queues to which you are referring are due to weather conditions. We currently ship goods from all over the world through the various East Ports . It is difficult to see why leaving the EU would make much difference . The current clearance system just needs a few tweaks." Yeah those rough seas play havok with the Chunnel don't they 
Still though Highways England have put out another consultation to avoid turning the M20 into a contraflow again. Immediately after the Manchester bombing passport control checks at Dover led to a 4 hour delay on departures, and this was still only 9:30am | |||
