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Does it matter if Brexit makes the UK poorer?
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"No, it's a done deal. The public was told the likely outcome was each family would be £3k a year or so poorer. People still voted to leave. So in that sense, it doesn't matter. We've made our bed and now it's time to lie in it. As for Farage, I'd happily throttle the life out of the little shit. " That's not strictly true. Many people on this site alone insist that any such cost were wrong or exaggerated. Some people even insisted that we'd never had it so good whilst prices were visibly rising. If you don't believe that you'll be poorer then it isn't a question that needs answering. I am actually asking if the choice is real what would the decision be? How much poorer is acceptable? What elements of state funding could be cut for the trade-off to be acceptable? | |||
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"The thing is, living standards have fallen in the UK for at least the last 19 quarters while being members of the EU, so when were things supposed to get better exactly? It is time to take a chance and do things differently. Now I’m sure that people will say it is all the fault of the Tories, but didn’t the Tories campaign to remain in the EU? And the Tories are not in charge of other EU countries who have had it worse than us are they? The vote was a fuck the government (of whatever colour) and fuck the EU . it’s time to do things differently. Nothing ventured nothing gained " That is an attitude of complacency that is borne of ignorance. In any other era, thoughts like that ended up with wars as an end result. The U.K. has simply done astonishingly well as a full EU Member Partner. We transformed ourselves from the sick man of Europe to being the first EU country to emerge from the recent financial recession. Political and educational ignorance has resulted in a society so dumbed down that for many decisions are made and strengthened by memes. The U.K. has in fact returned to the days when ordinary folk were so in awe of millionaires and billionaires that they don’t recognise when those same billionaires are playing them via a xenophobic media. The only other place in the world that demonstrates such political ignorance is in the United States and it is really no surprise then that the US has Trump and many in the U.K. think that Trump is going ride in on a white charger and save us from our equal EU partnership to become a thankful bit part player in a one sided transatlantic trade agreement. Our kids and grand kids will hate us for what we are doing and the history books will contain just three letter... WTF | |||
"The thing is, living standards have fallen in the UK for at least the last 19 quarters while being members of the EU, so when were things supposed to get better exactly? It is time to take a chance and do things differently. Now I’m sure that people will say it is all the fault of the Tories, but didn’t the Tories campaign to remain in the EU? And the Tories are not in charge of other EU countries who have had it worse than us are they? The vote was a fuck the government (of whatever colour) and fuck the EU . it’s time to do things differently. Nothing ventured nothing gained That is an attitude of complacency that is borne of ignorance. In any other era, thoughts like that ended up with wars as an end result. The U.K. has simply done astonishingly well as a full EU Member Partner. We transformed ourselves from the sick man of Europe to being the first EU country to emerge from the recent financial recession. Political and educational ignorance has resulted in a society so dumbed down that for many decisions are made and strengthened by memes. The U.K. has in fact returned to the days when ordinary folk were so in awe of millionaires and billionaires that they don’t recognise when those same billionaires are playing them via a xenophobic media. The only other place in the world that demonstrates such political ignorance is in the United States and it is really no surprise then that the US has Trump and many in the U.K. think that Trump is going ride in on a white charger and save us from our equal EU partnership to become a thankful bit part player in a one sided transatlantic trade agreement. Our kids and grand kids will hate us for what we are doing and the history books will contain just three letter... WTF" So where did you get your degree in politics? Wanting change is complacency? I think you have that the wrong way round. And war? Not over the top eh....much. And I am no fan of Trump but isn’t unemployment falling and aren’t wages rising in the US under him? | |||
"Does it matter if remaining a member of the EU makes the people poorer?" That's a deflection from the thread. Start a new one not hijack this one. | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under." As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . " .  | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . " As a north easterner I have complete understanding of what you have said. The north east is all those things for the last 50 years! The rest of the country have only just caught up. It was drummed into me to succeed at school - you had to have excellent grades to get a job never mind a good job. Old industries are dead - coal, steel, ship building all industries we had up there - all gone. Why you may ask? Answer Korea could build cheaper faster and on time - so that's where it went! We have lost out manufacturing because it's cheaper elsewhere. Dyson is a great ideas man but has everything made in sweatshops in the far east! Nothing sadly is going to change after brexit. Dyson will not bring manufacturing back to the UK so everybody can have a share in the success. Yes he will bring in engineers on big bucks, but that's not going to help the masses. Governments may govern countries, but big business rules the world! I hope it works but I fear for the future! | |||
"The thing is, living standards have fallen in the UK for at least the last 19 quarters while being members of the EU, so when were things supposed to get better exactly? It is time to take a chance and do things differently. Now I’m sure that people will say it is all the fault of the Tories, but didn’t the Tories campaign to remain in the EU? And the Tories are not in charge of other EU countries who have had it worse than us are they? The vote was a fuck the government (of whatever colour) and fuck the EU . it’s time to do things differently. Nothing ventured nothing gained That is an attitude of complacency that is borne of ignorance. In any other era, thoughts like that ended up with wars as an end result. The U.K. has simply done astonishingly well as a full EU Member Partner. We transformed ourselves from the sick man of Europe to being the first EU country to emerge from the recent financial recession. Political and educational ignorance has resulted in a society so dumbed down that for many decisions are made and strengthened by memes. The U.K. has in fact returned to the days when ordinary folk were so in awe of millionaires and billionaires that they don’t recognise when those same billionaires are playing them via a xenophobic media. The only other place in the world that demonstrates such political ignorance is in the United States and it is really no surprise then that the US has Trump and many in the U.K. think that Trump is going ride in on a white charger and save us from our equal EU partnership to become a thankful bit part player in a one sided transatlantic trade agreement. Our kids and grand kids will hate us for what we are doing and the history books will contain just three letter... WTF" It's actually the opposite of complacency. Complacency is, "well, we're in it now, so we may as well stay in it'. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment." The lower classes will be hit , the rich elite will make sure of that. | |||
"The thing is, living standards have fallen in the UK for at least the last 19 quarters while being members of the EU, so when were things supposed to get better exactly? It is time to take a chance and do things differently. Now I’m sure that people will say it is all the fault of the Tories, but didn’t the Tories campaign to remain in the EU? And the Tories are not in charge of other EU countries who have had it worse than us are they? The vote was a fuck the government (of whatever colour) and fuck the EU . it’s time to do things differently. Nothing ventured nothing gained That is an attitude of complacency that is borne of ignorance. In any other era, thoughts like that ended up with wars as an end result. The U.K. has simply done astonishingly well as a full EU Member Partner. We transformed ourselves from the sick man of Europe to being the first EU country to emerge from the recent financial recession. Political and educational ignorance has resulted in a society so dumbed down that for many decisions are made and strengthened by memes. The U.K. has in fact returned to the days when ordinary folk were so in awe of millionaires and billionaires that they don’t recognise when those same billionaires are playing them via a xenophobic media. The only other place in the world that demonstrates such political ignorance is in the United States and it is really no surprise then that the US has Trump and many in the U.K. think that Trump is going ride in on a white charger and save us from our equal EU partnership to become a thankful bit part player in a one sided transatlantic trade agreement. Our kids and grand kids will hate us for what we are doing and the history books will contain just three letter... WTF It's actually the opposite of complacency. Complacency is, "well, we're in it now, so we may as well stay in it'."  | |||
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"Does it matter if remaining a member of the EU makes the people poorer?" Doesn't answer my question nor does it provide any justification for the assertion that the UK is poorer due to membership of the EU. It seems like a political response trying to win an argument rather than an honest reply. | |||
"The thing is, living standards have fallen in the UK for at least the last 19 quarters while being members of the EU, so when were things supposed to get better exactly? It is time to take a chance and do things differently. Now I’m sure that people will say it is all the fault of the Tories, but didn’t the Tories campaign to remain in the EU? And the Tories are not in charge of other EU countries who have had it worse than us are they? The vote was a fuck the government (of whatever colour) and fuck the EU . it’s time to do things differently. Nothing ventured nothing gained " Where else in the world have living standards fallen over the same period? What are the similarities and differences between those doing better and those doing worse? We're there any major international financial events in the last few years that may have caused any problems? Once we've torn down what we've got what's the plan? Destruction is easy. Really easy. Construction is not. | |||
"The thing is, living standards have fallen in the UK for at least the last 19 quarters while being members of the EU, so when were things supposed to get better exactly? It is time to take a chance and do things differently. Now I’m sure that people will say it is all the fault of the Tories, but didn’t the Tories campaign to remain in the EU? And the Tories are not in charge of other EU countries who have had it worse than us are they? The vote was a fuck the government (of whatever colour) and fuck the EU . it’s time to do things differently. Nothing ventured nothing gained That is an attitude of complacency that is borne of ignorance. In any other era, thoughts like that ended up with wars as an end result. The U.K. has simply done astonishingly well as a full EU Member Partner. We transformed ourselves from the sick man of Europe to being the first EU country to emerge from the recent financial recession. Political and educational ignorance has resulted in a society so dumbed down that for many decisions are made and strengthened by memes. The U.K. has in fact returned to the days when ordinary folk were so in awe of millionaires and billionaires that they don’t recognise when those same billionaires are playing them via a xenophobic media. The only other place in the world that demonstrates such political ignorance is in the United States and it is really no surprise then that the US has Trump and many in the U.K. think that Trump is going ride in on a white charger and save us from our equal EU partnership to become a thankful bit part player in a one sided transatlantic trade agreement. Our kids and grand kids will hate us for what we are doing and the history books will contain just three letter... WTF So where did you get your degree in politics? Wanting change is complacency? I think you have that the wrong way round. And war? Not over the top eh....much. And I am no fan of Trump but isn’t unemployment falling and aren’t wages rising in the US under him?" I agree that not changing the status quo is superficially a more complacent position, but that is only if you think things are fine. Of you think the world faces a number of crises and the information available suggeststhat the change you want will cause more chaos then that is not the case. Your view on war is complacent though. We have been at war continuously for over two decades. War was not going to come in 1914 or 1939. We only avoided being Hitler's ally because both Lord Halifax and King Edward were not in post together leading the country. Just what is it you think that Trump has done over just over a year in office that has "turned around" anything in the USA. Everything was in place. He's inherited success and is nowstoking a growing economy. What do yyou think happens next? | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . " So you would rather be poorer but "in control"? How do we develop the industries as you would like? Where does the money come from? Who will buy it? | |||
"It's all subjective really. The £3k figure was the difference estimated by the Treasury between two unknowns - economic growth as part of the EU or economic growth outwith the EU. " It was also a forecast for the year 2030. Considering George Osborne couldn't get the majority of his 6 month forecasts correct what makes you think he'd get a 15 year forecast correct? | |||
"As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . " One of, if not *the* greatest failing of the Stay campaign was the abject lack of a positive message - in essence, their pitch was "Hey - things aren't so bad, be thankful for what you've got, cos if we leave things could get a lot worse!" which utterly ignored the plight of ordinary people, still reeling from years of austerity, and trivialised the hardship that they'd been suffering. The scale to which they were out of touch with the people they were supposed to represent was never writ larger. On the other hand, the Leave campaign very successfully spoke to those people, with a positive message of change, and a straightforward message of hope and optimism - "This is the reason why things are shit, and here's how we're going to make it better!" It's no wonder Leave won - why wouldn't people vote for that kind of message, especially when they feel like they've nothing to lose, because things are already shit. Sadly, things won't get any better and will likely get worse, but I'm always surprised when people are surprised that the population voted for Brexit - Leave ran a far more coherent and appealing campaign | |||
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"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . So you would rather be poorer but "in control"? How do we develop the industries as you would like? Where does the money come from? Who will buy it?" I don't have the perfect answers for everything , politically all parties are to blame for lack of investment in UK jobs over time and I believe this was just one part of why a typical Midlands person in their 40's and upwards voted to leave as they've seen huge change over their lives , most of those industries have gone and factories they worked in are knocked down as more housing takes place. So in a nutshell things for us could be better not worse and as a country selfish or not we feel investment needs to stay on our shores not paid into a pot to help out the rest of Europe. | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. " But you have bitched about the FREEDOM of the press, the INDEPENDENCE of the judiciary and the SOVEREIGNTY of parliament. You don't believe in any of these things! | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. " This is how we feel too . | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. But you have bitched about the FREEDOM of the press, the INDEPENDENCE of the judiciary and the SOVEREIGNTY of parliament. You don't believe in any of these things!" Any examples you care to give? Isn't it Remainers like you who have bitched about the freedom of the press when they were critical of the Gina Miller case? I defended the freedom of the press in that case. You want an independent judiciary but you don't want a free press to be able to offer any criticism. | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under." Isn't it funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "remain no matter what" are also millionaires, people like Blair, Mandelson and Kinnock. People who stand to do very nicely from the UK staying in the EU, are some of the most verciferous remain campaigners. I'm sure Mandelson and Kinnock's bloated EU pension pots had nothing to do with them wanting to remain though. 
Same for many of those unelected old cronies in the House of Lords who are trying their best to sabotage Brexit, many of them have vested interests in the EU and stand to do very nicely financially if the UK remains in. Self serving, unelected, undemocratic cunts who have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like. | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. Isn't it funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "remain no matter what" are also millionaires, people like Blair, Mandelson and Kinnock. People who stand to do very nicely from the UK staying in the EU, are some of the most verciferous remain campaigners. I'm sure Mandelson and Kinnock's bloated EU pension pots had nothing to do with them wanting to remain though.
Same for many of those unelected old cronies in the House of Lords who are trying their best to sabotage Brexit, many of them have vested interests in the EU and stand to do very nicely financially if the UK remains in. Self serving, unelected, undemocratic cunts who have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like. ". Is that the Neil Kinnock who campaigned for us to leave the EI in 1992? Sorry, lord Kinnock who campaigned to abolish the House of Lords in 1993? | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. But you have bitched about the FREEDOM of the press, the INDEPENDENCE of the judiciary and the SOVEREIGNTY of parliament. You don't believe in any of these things! Any examples you care to give? Isn't it Remainers like you who have bitched about the freedom of the press when they were critical of the Gina Miller case? I defended the freedom of the press in that case. You want an independent judiciary but you don't want a free press to be able to offer any criticism. " So the only one you disagree with is freedom of press!  | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. But you have bitched about the FREEDOM of the press, the INDEPENDENCE of the judiciary and the SOVEREIGNTY of parliament. You don't believe in any of these things! Any examples you care to give? Isn't it Remainers like you who have bitched about the freedom of the press when they were critical of the Gina Miller case? I defended the freedom of the press in that case. You want an independent judiciary but you don't want a free press to be able to offer any criticism. So the only one you disagree with is freedom of press! "I'm the one here between the two of us who is more in favour of a free press, from your comments in the past you clearly don't want a free press in the UK. I'd like to see the UK Supreme court be the final court in the land, NOT the European Court of Justice. This is the difference between you and I. Just because I was critical of some rulings in the Gina Miller case doesn't mean I don't believe in an independent judiciary. State institutions must be able to face criticism now and again. It's you who wants a foreign court like the European Court of Justice ruling over us, not me. As for the sovereignty of Parliament I absolutely belive in it, but I fully expect Parliament to deliver the result of the referendum when an overwhelming majority of MP's in the House of Commons voted in favour of a referendum and said they would implement the result. Now it seems some of them are going back on their word and are calling for a 2nd referendum. The House of Lords needs urgent reform, it's full of unelected old cronies, many of whom have vested interests in remaining in the EU like bloated EU pension pots. You have people like Lord Adonis in there who has publicly admitted he intends to stop Brexit by any means possible, is this what you call democracy??? The people/electorate are sovereign first and foremost, we are the MP's bosses, we elect them and we fire them when they are up for re-election, just ask Nick Clegg about that. We (the people) are they're bosses they are duty bound to carry out our (the people's) instructions. The public have instructed Parliament to leave the EU, it's high time they got on with it! | |||
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"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. Isn't it funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "remain no matter what" are also millionaires, people like Blair, Mandelson and Kinnock. People who stand to do very nicely from the UK staying in the EU, are some of the most verciferous remain campaigners. I'm sure Mandelson and Kinnock's bloated EU pension pots had nothing to do with them wanting to remain though.
Same for many of those unelected old cronies in the House of Lords who are trying their best to sabotage Brexit, many of them have vested interests in the EU and stand to do very nicely financially if the UK remains in. Self serving, unelected, undemocratic cunts who have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like. . Is that the Neil Kinnock who campaigned for us to leave the EI in 1992? Sorry, lord Kinnock who campaigned to abolish the House of Lords in 1993?"Yes, the same old hypocrite Kinnock who likes falling over on beaches in front of television cameras. | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. But you have bitched about the FREEDOM of the press, the INDEPENDENCE of the judiciary and the SOVEREIGNTY of parliament. You don't believe in any of these things! Any examples you care to give? Isn't it Remainers like you who have bitched about the freedom of the press when they were critical of the Gina Miller case? I defended the freedom of the press in that case. You want an independent judiciary but you don't want a free press to be able to offer any criticism. So the only one you disagree with is freedom of press!
I'm the one here between the two of us who is more in favour of a free press, from your comments in the past you clearly don't want a free press in the UK.
I'd like to see the UK Supreme court be the final court in the land, NOT the European Court of Justice. This is the difference between you and I. Just because I was critical of some rulings in the Gina Miller case doesn't mean I don't believe in an independent judiciary. State institutions must be able to face criticism now and again. It's you who wants a foreign court like the European Court of Justice ruling over us, not me.
As for the sovereignty of Parliament I absolutely belive in it, but I fully expect Parliament to deliver the result of the referendum when an overwhelming majority of MP's in the House of Commons voted in favour of a referendum and said they would implement the result. Now it seems some of them are going back on their word and are calling for a 2nd referendum. The House of Lords needs urgent reform, it's full of unelected old cronies, many of whom have vested interests in remaining in the EU like bloated EU pension pots. You have people like Lord Adonis in there who has publicly admitted he intends to stop Brexit by any means possible, is this what you call democracy???
The people/electorate are sovereign first and foremost, we are the MP's bosses, we elect them and we fire them when they are up for re-election, just ask Nick Clegg about that. We (the people) are they're bosses they are duty bound to carry out our (the people's) instructions. The public have instructed Parliament to leave the EU, it's high time they got on with it!"So quote me where I have said that I don't want a free press. Even in your comments supposedly supporting the judiciary and parliament you attack those same instituions! You hate them, you hate anything that might get in the way of Brexit. If the only way to achieve Brexit was through a totalitarian state, you would rather that than remain in the EU. You're a one-trick ANTI-EU pony. | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. " Do in response to the actual question in the post you are saying that being "in control" is more important than being poorer. Yes? What you happen to think about a prosperous long term future with no course of action to bring that about is moot. For your information it is about money for me because I don't feel emasculated and oppressed under the heavy yoke of the EU. I consequently don't have anything except the financial concerns for the country to worry about. Is that position any less valid than yours? I'm fine come what may. I work for a company that designs in the UK and manufactures abroad. However, I happen to think that both before and after the vote most people really don't gives two hoots about the EU as long as they have stable and comfortable lives. Their lives were difficult and wanted to believe that this change may improve their lot. Telling them that they should be pleased about all the other things when they are materially worse off may not work out that well. Can you entertain the possibility that other leave voters are not as idealogically committed as you? | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. Isn't it funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "remain no matter what" are also millionaires, people like Blair, Mandelson and Kinnock. People who stand to do very nicely from the UK staying in the EU, are some of the most verciferous remain campaigners. I'm sure Mandelson and Kinnock's bloated EU pension pots had nothing to do with them wanting to remain though.
Same for many of those unelected old cronies in the House of Lords who are trying their best to sabotage Brexit, many of them have vested interests in the EU and stand to do very nicely financially if the UK remains in. Self serving, unelected, undemocratic cunts who have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like. . Is that the Neil Kinnock who campaigned for us to leave the EI in 1992? Sorry, lord Kinnock who campaigned to abolish the House of Lords in 1993?
Yes, the same old hypocrite Kinnock who likes falling over on beaches in front of television cameras. ". Sorry, it was 1983 not 1992, that was off the top of my head but the point still stands. I think Blair was campaigning to leave in those days too | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . " I completely understand and respect your position and the reasons for your vote. In my post, I didn't imply that only rich people voted for brexit. I was simply observing that they are the ones shouting the loudest and, unfortunately, their target audience, people who were desperate, exactly as you said, "for a brighter future" listened and trusted that maybe it was the way forward. I do not blame you or them at all. I fully get it. Had you been told "we, as a government and the last few successive governments, have completely fucked up and have failed you all. We apologise and we'll do our utmost to address your concerns and sort them out as we should have done when it was needed, rather than passing the buck either to the previous/next government and/or the EU and/or the banking crisis and/or [insert other scapegoat]" maybe your vote would have been different. But it was too much of a good opportunity for some ideologists to pass up and they instead hijacked people's frustration, dissatisfaction and disappointment with their standard of life and blamed it on the EU. Those people, the ones voting and hoping for a brighter future, are the ones with the most to lose should things go belly up with brexit. Not JRM (who has plenty of millions to fall back on) or Farage (who will probably move to Germany). I sincerely wish and hope that things will get better for you (and everyone else) and that the changes that you voted brexit in the hope for, materialise, brexit or no brexit | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. As a couple were pretty much typical of what a Brexiteer is made up of , midlanders of a working class background and both below average income we both work really hard and have both been on the shop floor in terms of employment so were a million miles away from top execs , company cars, big bonuses etc and fair play to them for achieving those things. We voted leave for many reasons as we feel we have nothing to lose , one being a brighter future as we believe our country has been in decline for decades down to lack of investment and opportunity for people . Steel Coal Engineering Hosiery Manufacturing etc I could go on and on with reasons why but it's worth the chance for us . I completely understand and respect your position and the reasons for your vote. In my post, I didn't imply that only rich people voted for brexit. I was simply observing that they are the ones shouting the loudest and, unfortunately, their target audience, people who were desperate, exactly as you said, "for a brighter future" listened and trusted that maybe it was the way forward. I do not blame you or them at all. I fully get it. Had you been told "we, as a government and the last few successive governments, have completely fucked up and have failed you all. We apologise and we'll do our utmost to address your concerns and sort them out as we should have done when it was needed, rather than passing the buck either to the previous/next government and/or the EU and/or the banking crisis and/or [insert other scapegoat]" maybe your vote would have been different. But it was too much of a good opportunity for some ideologists to pass up and they instead hijacked people's frustration, dissatisfaction and disappointment with their standard of life and blamed it on the EU. Those people, the ones voting and hoping for a brighter future, are the ones with the most to lose should things go belly up with brexit. Not JRM (who has plenty of millions to fall back on) or Farage (who will probably move to Germany). I sincerely wish and hope that things will get better for you (and everyone else) and that the changes that you voted brexit in the hope for, materialise, brexit or no brexit "Thankyou & you too . | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. Isn't it funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "remain no matter what" are also millionaires, people like Blair, Mandelson and Kinnock. People who stand to do very nicely from the UK staying in the EU, are some of the most verciferous remain campaigners. I'm sure Mandelson and Kinnock's bloated EU pension pots had nothing to do with them wanting to remain though.
Same for many of those unelected old cronies in the House of Lords who are trying their best to sabotage Brexit, many of them have vested interests in the EU and stand to do very nicely financially if the UK remains in. Self serving, unelected, undemocratic cunts who have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like. "Yes, I'm sure that's funny too in a parallel universe. However, how many of them do you see in multiple newspapers (and usually front pages) daily as well as tv programs completely undermining their own government's negotiating power by highlighting the divisions within the governing party and almost threatening the PM to deliver *their* idea/version of brexit? It's as if they want the negotiations to fail. Oh wait! That's exactly what they want  | |||
"I'm interested to hear what brexiters say. I think I know the answer! " Well in the long run yes it matters but not in the short term as do believe in the long run we will be better off if not in the first few years. | |||
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"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. Do in response to the actual question in the post you are saying that being "in control" is more important than being poorer. Yes? What you happen to think about a prosperous long term future with no course of action to bring that about is moot. For your information it is about money for me because I don't feel emasculated and oppressed under the heavy yoke of the EU. I consequently don't have anything except the financial concerns for the country to worry about. Is that position any less valid than yours? I'm fine come what may. I work for a company that designs in the UK and manufactures abroad. However, I happen to think that both before and after the vote most people really don't gives two hoots about the EU as long as they have stable and comfortable lives. Their lives were difficult and wanted to believe that this change may improve their lot. Telling them that they should be pleased about all the other things when they are materially worse off may not work out that well. Can you entertain the possibility that other leave voters are not as idealogically committed as you?" I didn't quote the OP because I don't agree with the way you worded it. It's not a zero sum game and your OP was a loaded question, poorer or diminished seems to be what you're asking people to chose between. I think the UK will be better off economically in the long term and the country will be enhanced not diminished outside of the EU. For multiple reasons why just have a read of international trade secretary Liam Fox's article in the Sun on Sunday today. Just a few select quotes from his article as follows.... "We were told (by remainers) investors would desert us. What happened? Last year we landed more inward investment than ever before, a vote of confidence from the international financial community. We were told we would face an employment crisis. What happened? Employment is up by 600,000 since before the referendum to 32.34 million, with record numbers in work. Our manufacturing order books are at their highest for years and our exports have risen by about 10% in the past year (wasn't it you who questioned that the UK has nothing the world wants to buy? Clearly not the case if UK exports are up 10% in the last year and manufacturing is seeing a boom). Remember how remain said jobs would flood out of the city of London to Paris and Frankfurt? What happened? Last year saw more venture capital on tech, including financial technology, coming to London, than all of Germany, France, Spain, and Ireland combined. We can rightly be confident and optimistic about our future outside of the EU. The UK already has enormous advantages in a competitive global economy. Our system of law is admired across the globe. Our skilled workforce and universities are world class. We have fantastic research and development facilities, some of the best innovators and we are leaders in the digital revolution. We speak English and are in the right time zone to trade with Asia in the morning and America in the afternoon. The UK is in a strong position. We are a leading member of the Commonwealth, a grouping of 53 countries that is home to 1/3rd of the world population and half of the globes top 20 emerging cities. We are one of the top contributors to Nato, have a permanent seat at the UN security council, and are members of the G7 and the G20. The uk's future is, and needs to be global. Based on IMF data it has been calculated that in the next 10 to 15 years, 90% of global economic growth will originate from outside of the EU." Just a snippet of Liam Fox's article and there is a lot more to it than the bits I selected. | |||
"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. But you have bitched about the FREEDOM of the press, the INDEPENDENCE of the judiciary and the SOVEREIGNTY of parliament. You don't believe in any of these things! Any examples you care to give? Isn't it Remainers like you who have bitched about the freedom of the press when they were critical of the Gina Miller case? I defended the freedom of the press in that case. You want an independent judiciary but you don't want a free press to be able to offer any criticism. So the only one you disagree with is freedom of press!
I'm the one here between the two of us who is more in favour of a free press, from your comments in the past you clearly don't want a free press in the UK.
I'd like to see the UK Supreme court be the final court in the land, NOT the European Court of Justice. This is the difference between you and I. Just because I was critical of some rulings in the Gina Miller case doesn't mean I don't believe in an independent judiciary. State institutions must be able to face criticism now and again. It's you who wants a foreign court like the European Court of Justice ruling over us, not me.
As for the sovereignty of Parliament I absolutely belive in it, but I fully expect Parliament to deliver the result of the referendum when an overwhelming majority of MP's in the House of Commons voted in favour of a referendum and said they would implement the result. Now it seems some of them are going back on their word and are calling for a 2nd referendum. The House of Lords needs urgent reform, it's full of unelected old cronies, many of whom have vested interests in remaining in the EU like bloated EU pension pots. You have people like Lord Adonis in there who has publicly admitted he intends to stop Brexit by any means possible, is this what you call democracy???
The people/electorate are sovereign first and foremost, we are the MP's bosses, we elect them and we fire them when they are up for re-election, just ask Nick Clegg about that. We (the people) are they're bosses they are duty bound to carry out our (the people's) instructions. The public have instructed Parliament to leave the EU, it's high time they got on with it!"Your indignation is amusing due to its hypocrisy. You really do believe that you are heroic in some way don't you? You defended the right of the Daily Mail to call British judges enemies of the people. Judges from the UK High Court. The one which you claim to hold in the highest esteem. The judgement was to give Parliament a say in the implementation of Article 50. The Parliament that you say is so important. The Parliamentary system that you want to defend is not the British one then? Who's had you in mind? Were you aware of the fact that the House of Lords cannot block legislation? It can only send it back with recommendations for consideration. Should legislation be considered beforehand enactment? A few Tory MPs lost their seats the last time around when May asked the electorate for a strong mandate for Brexit. Just beforehand you replay your normal nonesense I will underline what I mean by this. THERESA MAY ASKED THE ELECTORATE TO VOTE FOR THE CONSERVATIVES TO PROVIDE A STRONG MANDATE FOR BREXIT. THEY DID NOT. I would speculate that the reason for this is that the majority of the UK population do not give two hoots about the EU as long as they feel secure physically and financially. Successive governments have failed to do this. The electorate was led to believe that it was the fault of the EU and immigrants. They voted perfectly rationally in what they believed to be their own interests. If they find that they are materially better worse off after the mess of Brexit then telling them that there are more important things than money would be stagferingly arrogant. However, that is not what I asked. What I asked was a direct question. I still assume that Centaur thinks that being poorer is less important than being "in control". Would anyone else care to respond to the thread? | |||
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And May got something like 2 million more votes than Cameron so yes, the people did back her over Brexit.
I think we will be better off financially when we leave but if I thought that we would be poorer I would still have voted for Brexit.
Now I am not a socialist but but if you watch the YouTube clip of Michael Foot on ‘why we must leave the EU’ then he expresses my thoughts and reasons better than I ever could | |||
"It's funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "brexit no matter what" are millionaires (see JRM, A. Banks, etc) or very very very well off in general. To them 3K or whatever other amount, will not make a difference at all. But to the average working person, who's already struggling to make ends meet and/or has had to cut down on luxuries (and, in many cases, essentials) year in year out, ever a tenner is a tenner that could have been spent on something crucial. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that whether losing money or, at the very least, have financial uncertainty for the next howevermany years, won't have a real life impact to those who shout the loudest about brexit. But, for the rest of us (or, at least, some of us - unless you're detached from reality or very very well of yourself) a real life struggle, even of the smallest scale, for the next few years is very worrying and very real. Maybe things will be fine (eventually) but many of us won't exactly have a lot of use for financial prosperity when we're six feet under. Isn't it funny how some of the loudest voices urging for "remain no matter what" are also millionaires, people like Blair, Mandelson and Kinnock. People who stand to do very nicely from the UK staying in the EU, are some of the most verciferous remain campaigners. I'm sure Mandelson and Kinnock's bloated EU pension pots had nothing to do with them wanting to remain though.
Same for many of those unelected old cronies in the House of Lords who are trying their best to sabotage Brexit, many of them have vested interests in the EU and stand to do very nicely financially if the UK remains in. Self serving, unelected, undemocratic cunts who have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like.
Yes, I'm sure that's funny too in a parallel universe. However, how many of them do you see in multiple newspapers (and usually front pages) daily as well as tv programs completely undermining their own government's negotiating power by highlighting the divisions within the governing party and almost threatening the PM to deliver *their* idea/version of brexit? It's as if they want the negotiations to fail. Oh wait! That's exactly what they want "Very true ! Whatever their beliefs the names above have no idea of life as we live it. Their still so self obsessed with what's good for them and for the majority of the rich that the everyday man/woman are irrelevant. The majority of our friends, family & associates were all leavers and real salt of the earth down to earth people coming from what I call "real life" occupations . Blue collar workers , Nurses , midwifes , police etc they know what life is really like . However we do have friends that are big in business and voted remain and have a completely different outlook on everything as their completely in a bubble about everyday struggles for the rest of us , all they were concerned about was who going to wash their car if we had no immigration . I just couldn't believe the arrogance! | |||
"Op there are plenty of rich guys in prison .
And May got something like 2 million more votes than Cameron so yes, the people did back her over Brexit.
I think we will be better off financially when we leave but if I thought that we would be poorer I would still have voted for Brexit.
Now I am not a socialist but but if you watch the YouTube clip of Michael Foot on ‘why we must leave the EU’ then he expresses my thoughts and reasons better than I ever could " | |||
" Nothing ventured nothing gained " Lol | |||
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"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect." Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type?" I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment." Well there's a lot of inequality, in terms of money, standard of living in the north/south divide. A lot of my work colleagues think the south of the uk sacrificed the north to be better off. By making the uk poorer, the south will still be more affluent but may make the uk more equal | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. Well there's a lot of inequality, in terms of money, standard of living in the north/south divide. A lot of my work colleagues think the south of the uk sacrificed the north to be better off. By making the uk poorer, the south will still be more affluent but may make the uk more equal " That's answering a slightly different question I think. I appreciate the non-confrontational response though. It does imply that some will be happier if everyone is poorer as long the gap narrows. However there will also be even less to spend on government services. Historically every nation's wealth has been concentrated in the capital and border areas closest to trade. The UK happens to have both co-located leading to a particulaly large imbalance. The decline of the North was the handiwork of the UK not the EU though. Globalisation was always going to make heavy industry uncompetitive here but nothing was done to manage that change and find alternatives for skilled manual jobs. There is still no good answer to this because most well paid jobs require intellectual skills. That said, I think most people are more than capable there is just an educational and societal assumption otherwise. Does this forsee a post-Brexit scenario where some in the UK stop blaming the EU for its problems but blame the South? | |||
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"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response." . I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up  | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up "Well said couldn't have put it better myself!
He likes to think he's the forums answer to Jeremy Paxman with his endless list of questions but he doesn't listen to the answers given! :- | |||
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"This all seems to be about money for remainers, and it was the same during the referendum campaign. Is money all that remainers care about? Life isn't all about money/economics and leavers voted leave for a variety of reasons besides money. Some of the best things in life are free. Money/economics is not my primary concern in life, there are much more important things at stake here like our freedom, sovereignty and independence, you can't put a price on those things. Btw, I also think in the long term the UK will be better off financially outside of the EU as well. Do in response to the actual question in the post you are saying that being "in control" is more important than being poorer. Yes? What you happen to think about a prosperous long term future with no course of action to bring that about is moot. For your information it is about money for me because I don't feel emasculated and oppressed under the heavy yoke of the EU. I consequently don't have anything except the financial concerns for the country to worry about. Is that position any less valid than yours? I'm fine come what may. I work for a company that designs in the UK and manufactures abroad. However, I happen to think that both before and after the vote most people really don't gives two hoots about the EU as long as they have stable and comfortable lives. Their lives were difficult and wanted to believe that this change may improve their lot. Telling them that they should be pleased about all the other things when they are materially worse off may not work out that well. Can you entertain the possibility that other leave voters are not as idealogically committed as you? I didn't quote the OP because I don't agree with the way you worded it. It's not a zero sum game and your OP was a loaded question, poorer or diminished seems to be what you're asking people to chose between. I think the UK will be better off economically in the long term and the country will be enhanced not diminished outside of the EU. For multiple reasons why just have a read of international trade secretary Liam Fox's article in the Sun on Sunday today. Just a few select quotes from his article as follows.... "We were told (by remainers) investors would desert us. What happened? Last year we landed more inward investment than ever before, a vote of confidence from the international financial community. We were told we would face an employment crisis. What happened? Employment is up by 600,000 since before the referendum to 32.34 million, with record numbers in work. Our manufacturing order books are at their highest for years and our exports have risen by about 10% in the past year (wasn't it you who questioned that the UK has nothing the world wants to buy? Clearly not the case if UK exports are up 10% in the last year and manufacturing is seeing a boom). Remember how remain said jobs would flood out of the city of London to Paris and Frankfurt? What happened? Last year saw more venture capital on tech, including financial technology, coming to London, than all of Germany, France, Spain, and Ireland combined. We can rightly be confident and optimistic about our future outside of the EU. The UK already has enormous advantages in a competitive global economy. Our system of law is admired across the globe. Our skilled workforce and universities are world class. We have fantastic research and development facilities, some of the best innovators and we are leaders in the digital revolution. We speak English and are in the right time zone to trade with Asia in the morning and America in the afternoon. The UK is in a strong position. We are a leading member of the Commonwealth, a grouping of 53 countries that is home to 1/3rd of the world population and half of the globes top 20 emerging cities. We are one of the top contributors to Nato, have a permanent seat at the UN security council, and are members of the G7 and the G20. The uk's future is, and needs to be global. Based on IMF data it has been calculated that in the next 10 to 15 years, 90% of global economic growth will originate from outside of the EU." Just a snippet of Liam Fox's article and there is a lot more to it than the bits I selected. " Centaur, I will credit you that you read the headlines and even the articles but you only look at the side of the argument that suits you and don't look at the actual data. Just for the record, inward investment is the purchase of al British goods and services including property and shares and companies. The value of Sterling tanked so we had a fire sale. Tech investment rose because of one or two mega deals which will not be repeated. Employment, as in Trumpland was already rising so all you are claiming is the last point on the graph. The remain campaign was based on the successful fearmongerimg Tory general election one. The wrng headed predictions of disaster were based on the BoE doing nothing wjich clearly was not the case. Exports have risen by value because UK firms have raised prices. They have not increased production or invested in equipment or jobs. Think about that. A list of facts about the UK is exactly the same list inside the EU except with the pros and cons of a leading position on one of the world's biggest power blocks rather than outside all of them. Germany is inside the EU and sells 4 times as much to China as we do. How do they manage that if the EU is such a handicap? How will leaving the EU help us? Thanks for the snippet. | |||
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"As I voted remain I need to engage through asking would I vote remain if I thought it would make us poorer. And to be honest I couldn’t give you a yes or no off the bat. How much poorer ? For how long? And it what way? Who gets hit the most ? And the least ? So given this I underand why others are not engaging with the black and white question you are asking. Especially as it risks sound biting. It also presupposes a loss so feels a little leading ...." Fair point. I was asking a specific question because seeing Farage's quote it wrote itself. It depends what I thought was at stake I suppose. Freedom of movement has a value for me particularly if the UK was going through a period of unemployment and there were jobs elsewhere. The strength of collective bargaining on the world stage. Giving European states a common cause rather than infighting. I'd take it on its merits I suppose. I'm not idealogically wedded to the idea of the EU so I think I'd say enough if I could see it as being bad. That is actually getting at with the question though. | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up "I did watch Michael Foot's clip. Heartfelt but, I think, poorly targeted. It is based on an understanding of the EU as a government. It is not. It is a large, and in many ways unwieldy and bloated, bureaucracy. You wouldn't expect to replace the Civil Service here would you? The government of the EU responsible for the proposal of most legislation is the Council of Ministers nominated by member countries. Most decisions are unanimous. The check on that executive power in the Parliament. W have just spent the last few years sending people who have not been representing us but taking our money. Why do you think that we've not been getting our way as much as we used to? Have you looked into cognitive bias? Have seen how poor the response was? That is fairly typical. I am sorry that you took "Brexit type" as an insult. I just didn't want to write Brexiteer or leaver. You don't need to make a specific allegation to make an implication do you? I am aware that leavers are accused of bigotry. A few deserve it. Most do not. | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up
Well said couldn't have put it better myself!
He likes to think he's the forums answer to Jeremy Paxman with his endless list of questions but he doesn't listen to the answers given! :-" | |||
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"It won't make it poorer Just richer " Helpful engagement with the topic. Thank you. | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up
I did watch Michael Foot's clip. Heartfelt but, I think, poorly targeted. It is based on an understanding of the EU as a government. It is not. It is a large, and in many ways unwieldy and bloated, bureaucracy. You wouldn't expect to replace the Civil Service here would you? The government of the EU responsible for the proposal of most legislation is the Council of Ministers nominated by member countries. Most decisions are unanimous. The check on that executive power in the Parliament. W have just spent the last few years sending people who have not been representing us but taking our money. Why do you think that we've not been getting our way as much as we used to?
Have you looked into cognitive bias? Have seen how poor the response was? That is fairly typical.
I am sorry that you took "Brexit type" as an insult. I just didn't want to write Brexiteer or leaver.
You don't need to make a specific allegation to make an implication do you?
I am aware that leavers are accused of bigotry. A few deserve it. Most do not."Fair enough. But do you really think that the leader of Her Majesty’s opposition at the time didn’t understand how the EU works and that you know better?
You have missed the point of what he was saying I think.. The EU Parliament is just there to basically rubber stamp proposals put forward by the Council and it is up to national governments to enact the legislation. Now if the UK government passes that legislation against the wishes of the people of this country, what can we do about it? Kick them out and replace them with the opposition? That would do no good because as it is EU legislation they would not be able to remove it. Whereas if the government of the day brings in its own legislation and the people don’t like we can kick them out and elect the opposition who then have the powet to remove it. You might say what EU legislation has been brought in by the UK government that you don’t like? But that is not the point. Who knows what is to come? Basically as EU members we are giving away our democratic rights, rights that people have died for | |||
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"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up
I did watch Michael Foot's clip. Heartfelt but, I think, poorly targeted. It is based on an understanding of the EU as a government. It is not. It is a large, and in many ways unwieldy and bloated, bureaucracy. You wouldn't expect to replace the Civil Service here would you? The government of the EU responsible for the proposal of most legislation is the Council of Ministers nominated by member countries. Most decisions are unanimous. The check on that executive power in the Parliament. W have just spent the last few years sending people who have not been representing us but taking our money. Why do you think that we've not been getting our way as much as we used to?
Have you looked into cognitive bias? Have seen how poor the response was? That is fairly typical.
I am sorry that you took "Brexit type" as an insult. I just didn't want to write Brexiteer or leaver.
You don't need to make a specific allegation to make an implication do you?
I am aware that leavers are accused of bigotry. A few deserve it. Most do not.
Fair enough.
But do you really think that the leader of Her Majesty’s opposition at the time didn’t understand how the EU works and that you know better?
You have missed the point of what he was saying I think.. The EU Parliament is just there to basically rubber stamp proposals put forward by the Council and it is up to national governments to enact the legislation. Now if the UK government passes that legislation against the wishes of the people of this country, what can we do about it? Kick them out and replace them with the opposition? That would do no good because as it is EU legislation they would not be able to remove it. Whereas if the government of the day brings in its own legislation and the people don’t like we can kick them out and elect the opposition who then have the powet to remove it. You might say what EU legislation has been brought in by the UK government that you don’t like? But that is not the point. Who knows what is to come? Basically as EU members we are giving away our democratic rights, rights that people have died for "If everyone votes for councillors in our ward due to specific policies, that does not mean that anything will change in the borough. In fact, going against our wishes may be better for the borough. New offices or a shopping centre directly next door to us perhaps. If we all vote for a particular MP it does not mean that anything will change at the national level. We would never build airports or power stations. That's how representative democracy works I believe. So at what level is that no longer the case? Are Tamil Nadu and Rajasthan or Xinjiang and Guangdong more or less similar than the UK and France? What democratic rights have been given away? Does the EU or the UK have a better record on constraining the power of multinational corporations? Anyone can interpret any facts as they see fit. This entire part of the forum is based on that. The leader of the opposition is, by definition, a politician. Consequently he can interpret facts as appropriate to reinforce whatever narrative he wishes to communicate either sincerely or cynically. Having addressed your points directly, would you do the me the courtesy of responding in kind? Can you identify any weakness in your argument to leave the EU? Are there any merits to remaining? Is it possible that remainers hold their point of view because they believe that it is in the best interests of the country just as earnestly as leavers do? | |||
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"What do you mean, if? " | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up
I did watch Michael Foot's clip. Heartfelt but, I think, poorly targeted. It is based on an understanding of the EU as a government. It is not. It is a large, and in many ways unwieldy and bloated, bureaucracy. You wouldn't expect to replace the Civil Service here would you? The government of the EU responsible for the proposal of most legislation is the Council of Ministers nominated by member countries. Most decisions are unanimous. The check on that executive power in the Parliament. W have just spent the last few years sending people who have not been representing us but taking our money. Why do you think that we've not been getting our way as much as we used to?
Have you looked into cognitive bias? Have seen how poor the response was? That is fairly typical.
I am sorry that you took "Brexit type" as an insult. I just didn't want to write Brexiteer or leaver.
You don't need to make a specific allegation to make an implication do you?
I am aware that leavers are accused of bigotry. A few deserve it. Most do not.
Fair enough.
But do you really think that the leader of Her Majesty’s opposition at the time didn’t understand how the EU works and that you know better?
You have missed the point of what he was saying I think.. The EU Parliament is just there to basically rubber stamp proposals put forward by the Council and it is up to national governments to enact the legislation. Now if the UK government passes that legislation against the wishes of the people of this country, what can we do about it? Kick them out and replace them with the opposition? That would do no good because as it is EU legislation they would not be able to remove it. Whereas if the government of the day brings in its own legislation and the people don’t like we can kick them out and elect the opposition who then have the powet to remove it. You might say what EU legislation has been brought in by the UK government that you don’t like? But that is not the point. Who knows what is to come? Basically as EU members we are giving away our democratic rights, rights that people have died for
If everyone votes for councillors in our ward due to specific policies, that does not mean that anything will change in the borough. In fact, going against our wishes may be better for the borough. New offices or a shopping centre directly next door to us perhaps.
If we all vote for a particular MP it does not mean that anything will change at the national level. We would never build airports or power stations.
That's how representative democracy works I believe.
So at what level is that no longer the case?
Are Tamil Nadu and Rajasthan or Xinjiang and Guangdong more or less similar than the UK and France?
What democratic rights have been given away? Does the EU or the UK have a better record on constraining the power of multinational corporations?
Anyone can interpret any facts as they see fit. This entire part of the forum is based on that. The leader of the opposition is, by definition, a politician. Consequently he can interpret facts as appropriate to reinforce whatever narrative he wishes to communicate either sincerely or cynically.
Having addressed your points directly, would you do the me the courtesy of responding in kind?
Can you identify any weakness in your argument to leave the EU?
Are there any merits to remaining?
Is it possible that remainers hold their point of view because they believe that it is in the best interests of the country just as earnestly as leavers do? "I’m sure it is. They just happen to be wrong. Your grasp on politics seems to be akin to your grasp of football and its fans. Which probably explains why you’re always on the losing side | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up
I did watch Michael Foot's clip. Heartfelt but, I think, poorly targeted. It is based on an understanding of the EU as a government. It is not. It is a large, and in many ways unwieldy and bloated, bureaucracy. You wouldn't expect to replace the Civil Service here would you? The government of the EU responsible for the proposal of most legislation is the Council of Ministers nominated by member countries. Most decisions are unanimous. The check on that executive power in the Parliament. W have just spent the last few years sending people who have not been representing us but taking our money. Why do you think that we've not been getting our way as much as we used to?
Have you looked into cognitive bias? Have seen how poor the response was? That is fairly typical.
I am sorry that you took "Brexit type" as an insult. I just didn't want to write Brexiteer or leaver.
You don't need to make a specific allegation to make an implication do you?
I am aware that leavers are accused of bigotry. A few deserve it. Most do not.
Fair enough.
But do you really think that the leader of Her Majesty’s opposition at the time didn’t understand how the EU works and that you know better?
You have missed the point of what he was saying I think.. The EU Parliament is just there to basically rubber stamp proposals put forward by the Council and it is up to national governments to enact the legislation. Now if the UK government passes that legislation against the wishes of the people of this country, what can we do about it? Kick them out and replace them with the opposition? That would do no good because as it is EU legislation they would not be able to remove it. Whereas if the government of the day brings in its own legislation and the people don’t like we can kick them out and elect the opposition who then have the powet to remove it. You might say what EU legislation has been brought in by the UK government that you don’t like? But that is not the point. Who knows what is to come? Basically as EU members we are giving away our democratic rights, rights that people have died for
If everyone votes for councillors in our ward due to specific policies, that does not mean that anything will change in the borough. In fact, going against our wishes may be better for the borough. New offices or a shopping centre directly next door to us perhaps.
If we all vote for a particular MP it does not mean that anything will change at the national level. We would never build airports or power stations.
That's how representative democracy works I believe.
So at what level is that no longer the case?
Are Tamil Nadu and Rajasthan or Xinjiang and Guangdong more or less similar than the UK and France?
What democratic rights have been given away? Does the EU or the UK have a better record on constraining the power of multinational corporations?
Anyone can interpret any facts as they see fit. This entire part of the forum is based on that. The leader of the opposition is, by definition, a politician. Consequently he can interpret facts as appropriate to reinforce whatever narrative he wishes to communicate either sincerely or cynically.
Having addressed your points directly, would you do the me the courtesy of responding in kind?
Can you identify any weakness in your argument to leave the EU?
Are there any merits to remaining?
Is it possible that remainers hold their point of view because they believe that it is in the best interests of the country just as earnestly as leavers do?
I’m sure it is. They just happen to be wrong. Your grasp on politics seems to be akin to your grasp of football and its fans. Which probably explains why you’re always on the losing side "Centaur mk 2. Good job on your objectivity | |||
"Lots of hot air. Very difficult to get simple answers out of you Brexit types. I think that you have all said that you'd all rather be poorer and "in control". There's probably psychological discussion to be had about this on another occasion. Of course you don't believe that you will be poorer. Blind faith brings certainty but it also brings inflexibility and an inability to see other points of view. I hear no doubt or caution in anything that leavers say. You seem to deal in absolutes. Everything WILL be great. We WILL sign trade deals that will be advantageous to us in record time. The economy WILL be rebalanced. Experts and data and consideration WILL NOT be necessary. After all this time these remain your strongest arguments for Brexit. What I resent is that this level of discourse in government and the media mean that is all I'm left with too. The faith of zealots in which I have very little faith. I also have the pleasure of knowing that if it goes wrong I will also have the joy of being blamed for not getting behind "it" however undefined and nebulous it is. Do free to call me names now. Like children. You never fail to disappoint in that respect. Op what is the point of asking for people’s opinions if all you want to do is to dismiss them, put them down and insult them when they are given? You are not going to change anything here, nobody is listening to you. P.s. what is a Brexit type? I didn't ask for Brevity arguments. You are new to the forum so you will not know that all of your points have been covered time and again. I was asking for a response to a specific question so that we can all understand each other's motivations better. To understand why the argument is so intransigent. The same thing happened in the thread asking specifically if votes were based on emotions or logic. It's not a trick to try and "win" something. My frustration is the lack of honesty and the political answers that are constantly given. You are the Brexit type. You are not listening. You do not wish to examine your faith because you seem to "know" that you are right. You accuse others of arrogance but display exactly the same behaviour. Search for the thread on cognitive bias and look at the response.. I’m sorry but you are the one who isn’t listening. I have answered your question fully, along with a few others. Did you even bother to watch/listen to the Michael Foot speech which puts into words my feelings exactly on why we should leave the EU regardless of whether it makes the country richer or poorer? And I would be obliged if you could point out where I have accused anybody of arrogance? But do you not realise how pompous you sound with your ‘Brexit types ‘ slur? It is akin to saying ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ types. And leavers get accused of being bigots. You couldn’t make it up
I did watch Michael Foot's clip. Heartfelt but, I think, poorly targeted. It is based on an understanding of the EU as a government. It is not. It is a large, and in many ways unwieldy and bloated, bureaucracy. You wouldn't expect to replace the Civil Service here would you? The government of the EU responsible for the proposal of most legislation is the Council of Ministers nominated by member countries. Most decisions are unanimous. The check on that executive power in the Parliament. W have just spent the last few years sending people who have not been representing us but taking our money. Why do you think that we've not been getting our way as much as we used to?
Have you looked into cognitive bias? Have seen how poor the response was? That is fairly typical.
I am sorry that you took "Brexit type" as an insult. I just didn't want to write Brexiteer or leaver.
You don't need to make a specific allegation to make an implication do you?
I am aware that leavers are accused of bigotry. A few deserve it. Most do not.
Fair enough.
But do you really think that the leader of Her Majesty’s opposition at the time didn’t understand how the EU works and that you know better?
You have missed the point of what he was saying I think.. The EU Parliament is just there to basically rubber stamp proposals put forward by the Council and it is up to national governments to enact the legislation. Now if the UK government passes that legislation against the wishes of the people of this country, what can we do about it? Kick them out and replace them with the opposition? That would do no good because as it is EU legislation they would not be able to remove it. Whereas if the government of the day brings in its own legislation and the people don’t like we can kick them out and elect the opposition who then have the powet to remove it. You might say what EU legislation has been brought in by the UK government that you don’t like? But that is not the point. Who knows what is to come? Basically as EU members we are giving away our democratic rights, rights that people have died for
If everyone votes for councillors in our ward due to specific policies, that does not mean that anything will change in the borough. In fact, going against our wishes may be better for the borough. New offices or a shopping centre directly next door to us perhaps.
If we all vote for a particular MP it does not mean that anything will change at the national level. We would never build airports or power stations.
That's how representative democracy works I believe.
So at what level is that no longer the case?
Are Tamil Nadu and Rajasthan or Xinjiang and Guangdong more or less similar than the UK and France?
What democratic rights have been given away? Does the EU or the UK have a better record on constraining the power of multinational corporations?
Anyone can interpret any facts as they see fit. This entire part of the forum is based on that. The leader of the opposition is, by definition, a politician. Consequently he can interpret facts as appropriate to reinforce whatever narrative he wishes to communicate either sincerely or cynically.
Having addressed your points directly, would you do the me the courtesy of responding in kind?
Can you identify any weakness in your argument to leave the EU?
Are there any merits to remaining?
Is it possible that remainers hold their point of view because they believe that it is in the best interests of the country just as earnestly as leavers do?
I’m sure it is. They just happen to be wrong. Your grasp on politics seems to be akin to your grasp of football and its fans. Which probably explains why you’re always on the losing side
Centaur mk 2.
Good job on your objectivity "Cheers | |||
| |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do !" That is a reasonable point. This process still hasn't resolved itself rough However, this happened during a worldwide boom. The east never confronted its Nazi past that is the centre of right wing anti-immigration rhetoric and intolerance. Democracy is not rooted and prosperity is not as diffused. There remains a yearning for the certainty of the past and the old trope of someone else being to blame for your ills. The Jews. The West. The EU. Immigrants. | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do !" So if the UK is poorer in the long term as well as the shorter term, it could demonstrate that the UK should do the right thing and remain. | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! That is a reasonable point. This process still hasn't resolved itself rough However, this happened during a worldwide boom. The east never confronted its Nazi past that is the centre of right wing anti-immigration rhetoric and intolerance. Democracy is not rooted and prosperity is not as diffused. There remains a yearning for the certainty of the past and the old trope of someone else being to blame for your ills. The Jews. The West. The EU. Immigrants." Where does Merkel come from? | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! So if the UK is poorer in the long term as well as the shorter term, it could demonstrate that the UK should do the right thing and remain. "No because we will be better off in the long term ?? | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! So if the UK is poorer in the long term as well as the shorter term, it could demonstrate that the UK should do the right thing and remain. No because we will be better off in the long term ??"No, we won't. | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! So if the UK is poorer in the long term as well as the shorter term, it could demonstrate that the UK should do the right thing and remain. No because we will be better off in the long term ??"You misread the post that you quoted - Being poorer in the short term and longer term. That's just stupid to willfully steer the country into poverty for the citizens and national catastrophe. It's clear that parliamentary sovereignty should assume its rightful power and direct government in the appropriate action to take, once the EU offer is known - it should direct the executive to reject, accept or whatever is pertinent. It is then for the government to fulfill parliaments direction. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment." There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen." So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen." Granted you probably don't know Liam Fox personally, but he said a post-Brexit free trade deal with the EU should be the “easiest in human history” | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. Granted you probably don't know Liam Fox personally, but he said a post-Brexit free trade deal with the EU should be the “easiest in human history”" There isn't anything that's easy in politics but hopefully Sweden will vote for a referendum on leave and then maybe Brussels will sit up and take note that if they carry on there won't be a European union worth talking about so today we mustn't give away our bargaining power or there will be no chance at all of getting a good deal | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say." Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever." As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. | |||
"As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. " You obviously feel secure in your position, feel that you will be able to ride out any 'financial adjustments' and have little interest in any damage leaving does to others provided any damage done hurts the 48% of those who voted to remain. Fair enough, I respect your honesty if not the immorality you're post displays. Now to start with I took a look at your profile. The two of you and I are the same age, so like me you are way too old to start again. So I would ask you this: If in 3 or 5 years time you find yourself without a pension because your annuity pension pot is worthless or gone, your job or business has folded because your market collapsed following the UK economy going over a cliff after leaving the EU, and home or homes along with all your possessions have been taken from you by the banks and government through bankruptcy and that you cant ask your children for help because they are in the same state as you. Because you now live in what is quickly becoming a failed state. (Just imagine that is the position you are in.) Will you still be cool with your situation provided the remoaners are feeling the pain too? Or will the 2 of you be cowering in a corner somewhere shaking with fear praying that no one recognises you and tells the mob that you were a brexiteer who said you would be cool with whatever happened provided the remoaners felt the pain too? By the way you have some nice public photos. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. " "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?! | |||
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"That sounds like a heretical lack of faith in Brexit, citizen." If being in touch with reality is heresy, then heretic I am! | |||
"That sounds like a heretical lack of faith in Brexit, citizen." What is it the Yanks say: In god we trust, Everyone else pays cash! I ain't seen no green! 
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"As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. You obviously feel secure in your position, feel that you will be able to ride out any 'financial adjustments' and have little interest in any damage leaving does to others provided any damage done hurts the 48% of those who voted to remain. Fair enough, I respect your honesty if not the immorality you're post displays. Now to start with I took a look at your profile. The two of you and I are the same age, so like me you are way too old to start again. So I would ask you this: If in 3 or 5 years time you find yourself without a pension because your annuity pension pot is worthless or gone, your job or business has folded because your market collapsed following the UK economy going over a cliff after leaving the EU, and home or homes along with all your possessions have been taken from you by the banks and government through bankruptcy and that you cant ask your children for help because they are in the same state as you. Because you now live in what is quickly becoming a failed state. (Just imagine that is the position you are in.) Will you still be cool with your situation provided the remoaners are feeling the pain too? Or will the 2 of you be cowering in a corner somewhere shaking with fear praying that no one recognises you and tells the mob that you were a brexiteer who said you would be cool with whatever happened provided the remoaners felt the pain too? By the way you have some nice public photos. "Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose   | |||
"As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. You obviously feel secure in your position, feel that you will be able to ride out any 'financial adjustments' and have little interest in any damage leaving does to others provided any damage done hurts the 48% of those who voted to remain. Fair enough, I respect your honesty if not the immorality you're post displays. Now to start with I took a look at your profile. The two of you and I are the same age, so like me you are way too old to start again. So I would ask you this: If in 3 or 5 years time you find yourself without a pension because your annuity pension pot is worthless or gone, your job or business has folded because your market collapsed following the UK economy going over a cliff after leaving the EU, and home or homes along with all your possessions have been taken from you by the banks and government through bankruptcy and that you cant ask your children for help because they are in the same state as you. Because you now live in what is quickly becoming a failed state. (Just imagine that is the position you are in.) Will you still be cool with your situation provided the remoaners are feeling the pain too? Or will the 2 of you be cowering in a corner somewhere shaking with fear praying that no one recognises you and tells the mob that you were a brexiteer who said you would be cool with whatever happened provided the remoaners felt the pain too? By the way you have some nice public photos.
Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose "I'm a builder and self employed and do not have a pension so I have to work hard to make Brexit work for me. | |||
"As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. You obviously feel secure in your position, feel that you will be able to ride out any 'financial adjustments' and have little interest in any damage leaving does to others provided any damage done hurts the 48% of those who voted to remain. Fair enough, I respect your honesty if not the immorality you're post displays. Now to start with I took a look at your profile. The two of you and I are the same age, so like me you are way too old to start again. So I would ask you this: If in 3 or 5 years time you find yourself without a pension because your annuity pension pot is worthless or gone, your job or business has folded because your market collapsed following the UK economy going over a cliff after leaving the EU, and home or homes along with all your possessions have been taken from you by the banks and government through bankruptcy and that you cant ask your children for help because they are in the same state as you. Because you now live in what is quickly becoming a failed state. (Just imagine that is the position you are in.) Will you still be cool with your situation provided the remoaners are feeling the pain too? Or will the 2 of you be cowering in a corner somewhere shaking with fear praying that no one recognises you and tells the mob that you were a brexiteer who said you would be cool with whatever happened provided the remoaners felt the pain too? By the way you have some nice public photos. "Says man who voted Leave. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?!"I suggest you move to Europe if you love them so much. I'm off to cap soon so can drop you off if you want | |||
"Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose "Funny thing is I am former military and I was taught always to plan for the worst possible situation I could think of, and when planning for that make it happen on a New Years Eve night during the worst winter storm in 100 years during a power cut. All I see from brexiteers is 'everything is going to be fine and dandy!', 'they need us more than we need them!' and of course your a typical remoaner, you need to get behind brexit and make it work! HOW? WHAT DO WE DO IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT AND WE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOTHING AT MIDNIGHT 29 March NEXT YEAR? I SEE NO PLAN! I SEE NO PLANNING! I SEE A BUNCH OF TOTAL INCOMPETENTS STICKING THEIR HEADS UP EACH OTHERS ARSES! Sorry for the shouting, but maybe you would do better if you stopped telling me how hard you are because you are a proud football thug or a herring who has swallowed the crap that Farage has pumped out while feathering his nest with an EU pension and actually asked yourselves 'how will I survive if it turns out that brexit is not just a bag of shite, but is an ocean of slurry that is drowning everyone? Personally I know what I will do, I probably will not survive because I am too dam old and fat, but I expect I'll last longer than most my age and many a lot younger. How are your survival skills Centy? Did standing on the terraces at Chelsea teach you how to live off the land and protect your partner in a war-zone Steve? I suspect the two of you like the vast majority of the country have not got a clue, and just 'know' that everything will be fine. Spend the time (bout an hour) to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milbW4RDIco Change the bomb to the economy and just think. Ask yourself some simple questions: I the shops an out of food today how long can I survive on what I have in stock? How long will it be before my neighbours run out of food? How long will it be before I am fighting for my life to protect what food I have left? Be honest with yourselves, and then come back and tell me how there is nothing to worry about, and how confident you are that BoJo, Javid and the Maybot have everything under control so there is nothing to fear. | |||
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"As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. You obviously feel secure in your position, feel that you will be able to ride out any 'financial adjustments' and have little interest in any damage leaving does to others provided any damage done hurts the 48% of those who voted to remain. Fair enough, I respect your honesty if not the immorality you're post displays. Now to start with I took a look at your profile. The two of you and I are the same age, so like me you are way too old to start again. So I would ask you this: If in 3 or 5 years time you find yourself without a pension because your annuity pension pot is worthless or gone, your job or business has folded because your market collapsed following the UK economy going over a cliff after leaving the EU, and home or homes along with all your possessions have been taken from you by the banks and government through bankruptcy and that you cant ask your children for help because they are in the same state as you. Because you now live in what is quickly becoming a failed state. (Just imagine that is the position you are in.) Will you still be cool with your situation provided the remoaners are feeling the pain too? Or will the 2 of you be cowering in a corner somewhere shaking with fear praying that no one recognises you and tells the mob that you were a brexiteer who said you would be cool with whatever happened provided the remoaners felt the pain too? By the way you have some nice public photos.
Says man who voted Leave. "Indeed! He will be okay - he'll be leading the pogroms to root out all the Leavers. After all it takes one to find one! | |||
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"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?!
I suggest you move to Europe if you love them so much. I'm off to cap soon so can drop you off if you want "The Italians round up the Roma, Trump the children, Myanamar forced the Roningya to flee, Putin kills journalists that speak up against his regime, Kim Jong Un starves, tortures and kills his own people, Assad gasses and kills women and children... the list is long. Now we can add to that list the UK, where the Brexiteers "kindly suggest" those who dare to point out that the mess we're in is *our* doing and not the EU's, leave the country. How long before you round them all up and ship them off? I see, in my case, not very long, if your "kind offer" to drop me off at cap is anything to go by. Democracy at its best. "If you're not with us, you're against us". That's where we're at and, making the list I talked about earlier, is where we're heading. If this is what being a proud Brexiteer "patriot" is, thanks but no thanks. | |||
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"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?!
I suggest you move to Europe if you love them so much. I'm off to cap soon so can drop you off if you want
The Italians round up the Roma, Trump the children, Myanamar forced the Roningya to flee, Putin kills journalists that speak up against his regime, Kim Jong Un starves, tortures and kills his own people, Assad gasses and kills women and children... the list is long. Now we can add to that list the UK, where the Brexiteers "kindly suggest" those who dare to point out that the mess we're in is *our* doing and not the EU's, leave the country. How long before you round them all up and ship them off? I see, in my case, not very long, if your "kind offer" to drop me off at cap is anything to go by.
Democracy at its best. "If you're not with us, you're against us". That's where we're at and, making the list I talked about earlier, is where we're heading. If this is what being a proud Brexiteer "patriot" is, thanks but no thanks."You forgot the Spanish beating up the Catalans... | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?!
I suggest you move to Europe if you love them so much. I'm off to cap soon so can drop you off if you want
The Italians round up the Roma, Trump the children, Myanamar forced the Roningya to flee, Putin kills journalists that speak up against his regime, Kim Jong Un starves, tortures and kills his own people, Assad gasses and kills women and children... the list is long. Now we can add to that list the UK, where the Brexiteers "kindly suggest" those who dare to point out that the mess we're in is *our* doing and not the EU's, leave the country. How long before you round them all up and ship them off? I see, in my case, not very long, if your "kind offer" to drop me off at cap is anything to go by.
Democracy at its best. "If you're not with us, you're against us". That's where we're at and, making the list I talked about earlier, is where we're heading. If this is what being a proud Brexiteer "patriot" is, thanks but no thanks.
You forgot the Spanish beating up the Catalans..."As I said, the list is long. And getting longer as we speak by the looks of it  | |||
"As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. You obviously feel secure in your position, feel that you will be able to ride out any 'financial adjustments' and have little interest in any damage leaving does to others provided any damage done hurts the 48% of those who voted to remain. Fair enough, I respect your honesty if not the immorality you're post displays. Now to start with I took a look at your profile. The two of you and I are the same age, so like me you are way too old to start again. So I would ask you this: If in 3 or 5 years time you find yourself without a pension because your annuity pension pot is worthless or gone, your job or business has folded because your market collapsed following the UK economy going over a cliff after leaving the EU, and home or homes along with all your possessions have been taken from you by the banks and government through bankruptcy and that you cant ask your children for help because they are in the same state as you. Because you now live in what is quickly becoming a failed state. (Just imagine that is the position you are in.) Will you still be cool with your situation provided the remoaners are feeling the pain too? Or will the 2 of you be cowering in a corner somewhere shaking with fear praying that no one recognises you and tells the mob that you were a brexiteer who said you would be cool with whatever happened provided the remoaners felt the pain too? By the way you have some nice public photos.
Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose
I'm a builder and self employed and do not have a pension so I have to work hard to make Brexit work for me. "I have a pension that is linked to the performance of the FTSE 100, since the vote to leave the FTSE 100 has been going great guns and has broken the all time record several times, as a result my Pension fund is doing great. I don't think Willwill really thought this through properly, Brexit has been great for my pension. | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?!
I suggest you move to Europe if you love them so much. I'm off to cap soon so can drop you off if you want
The Italians round up the Roma, Trump the children, Myanamar forced the Roningya to flee, Putin kills journalists that speak up against his regime, Kim Jong Un starves, tortures and kills his own people, Assad gasses and kills women and children... the list is long. Now we can add to that list the UK, where the Brexiteers "kindly suggest" those who dare to point out that the mess we're in is *our* doing and not the EU's, leave the country. How long before you round them all up and ship them off? I see, in my case, not very long, if your "kind offer" to drop me off at cap is anything to go by.
Democracy at its best. "If you're not with us, you're against us". That's where we're at and, making the list I talked about earlier, is where we're heading. If this is what being a proud Brexiteer "patriot" is, thanks but no thanks."Wasn't it a remainer (even though he admits he voted Leave) who talked about remainers rounding up Brexiters after we've fully left the EU. Without mentioning names it's pretty clear to see who it was from the earlier comments. | |||
"Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose
Funny thing is I am former military and I was taught always to plan for the worst possible situation I could think of, and when planning for that make it happen on a New Years Eve night during the worst winter storm in 100 years during a power cut.
All I see from brexiteers is 'everything is going to be fine and dandy!', 'they need us more than we need them!' and of course your a typical remoaner, you need to get behind brexit and make it work!
HOW?
WHAT DO WE DO IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT AND WE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOTHING AT MIDNIGHT 29 March NEXT YEAR?
I SEE NO PLAN!
I SEE NO PLANNING!
I SEE A BUNCH OF TOTAL INCOMPETENTS STICKING THEIR HEADS UP EACH OTHERS ARSES!
Sorry for the shouting, but maybe you would do better if you stopped telling me how hard you are because you are a proud football thug or a herring who has swallowed the crap that Farage has pumped out while feathering his nest with an EU pension and actually asked yourselves 'how will I survive if it turns out that brexit is not just a bag of shite, but is an ocean of slurry that is drowning everyone?
Personally I know what I will do, I probably will not survive because I am too dam old and fat, but I expect I'll last longer than most my age and many a lot younger. How are your survival skills Centy? Did standing on the terraces at Chelsea teach you how to live off the land and protect your partner in a war-zone Steve? I suspect the two of you like the vast majority of the country have not got a clue, and just 'know' that everything will be fine.
Spend the time (bout an hour) to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milbW4RDIco
Change the bomb to the economy and just think.
Ask yourself some simple questions:
I the shops an out of food today how long can I survive on what I have in stock?
How long will it be before my neighbours run out of food?
How long will it be before I am fighting for my life to protect what food I have left?
Be honest with yourselves, and then come back and tell me how there is nothing to worry about, and how confident you are that BoJo, Javid and the Maybot have everything under control so there is nothing to fear. "He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one! | |||
"Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose
Funny thing is I am former military and I was taught always to plan for the worst possible situation I could think of, and when planning for that make it happen on a New Years Eve night during the worst winter storm in 100 years during a power cut.
All I see from brexiteers is 'everything is going to be fine and dandy!', 'they need us more than we need them!' and of course your a typical remoaner, you need to get behind brexit and make it work!
HOW?
WHAT DO WE DO IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT AND WE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOTHING AT MIDNIGHT 29 March NEXT YEAR?
I SEE NO PLAN!
I SEE NO PLANNING!
I SEE A BUNCH OF TOTAL INCOMPETENTS STICKING THEIR HEADS UP EACH OTHERS ARSES!
Sorry for the shouting, but maybe you would do better if you stopped telling me how hard you are because you are a proud football thug or a herring who has swallowed the crap that Farage has pumped out while feathering his nest with an EU pension and actually asked yourselves 'how will I survive if it turns out that brexit is not just a bag of shite, but is an ocean of slurry that is drowning everyone?
Personally I know what I will do, I probably will not survive because I am too dam old and fat, but I expect I'll last longer than most my age and many a lot younger. How are your survival skills Centy? Did standing on the terraces at Chelsea teach you how to live off the land and protect your partner in a war-zone Steve? I suspect the two of you like the vast majority of the country have not got a clue, and just 'know' that everything will be fine.
Spend the time (bout an hour) to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milbW4RDIco
Change the bomb to the economy and just think.
Ask yourself some simple questions:
I the shops an out of food today how long can I survive on what I have in stock?
How long will it be before my neighbours run out of food?
How long will it be before I am fighting for my life to protect what food I have left?
Be honest with yourselves, and then come back and tell me how there is nothing to worry about, and how confident you are that BoJo, Javid and the Maybot have everything under control so there is nothing to fear.
He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one! "He's gone Rambo on us! He's probably out in the woods now hunting Squirrels and rabbits. | |||
"Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose
Funny thing is I am former military and I was taught always to plan for the worst possible situation I could think of, and when planning for that make it happen on a New Years Eve night during the worst winter storm in 100 years during a power cut.
All I see from brexiteers is 'everything is going to be fine and dandy!', 'they need us more than we need them!' and of course your a typical remoaner, you need to get behind brexit and make it work!
HOW?
WHAT DO WE DO IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT AND WE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOTHING AT MIDNIGHT 29 March NEXT YEAR?
I SEE NO PLAN!
I SEE NO PLANNING!
I SEE A BUNCH OF TOTAL INCOMPETENTS STICKING THEIR HEADS UP EACH OTHERS ARSES!
Sorry for the shouting, but maybe you would do better if you stopped telling me how hard you are because you are a proud football thug or a herring who has swallowed the crap that Farage has pumped out while feathering his nest with an EU pension and actually asked yourselves 'how will I survive if it turns out that brexit is not just a bag of shite, but is an ocean of slurry that is drowning everyone?
Personally I know what I will do, I probably will not survive because I am too dam old and fat, but I expect I'll last longer than most my age and many a lot younger. How are your survival skills Centy? Did standing on the terraces at Chelsea teach you how to live off the land and protect your partner in a war-zone Steve? I suspect the two of you like the vast majority of the country have not got a clue, and just 'know' that everything will be fine.
Spend the time (bout an hour) to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milbW4RDIco
Change the bomb to the economy and just think.
Ask yourself some simple questions:
I the shops an out of food today how long can I survive on what I have in stock?
How long will it be before my neighbours run out of food?
How long will it be before I am fighting for my life to protect what food I have left?
Be honest with yourselves, and then come back and tell me how there is nothing to worry about, and how confident you are that BoJo, Javid and the Maybot have everything under control so there is nothing to fear.
He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one!
He's gone Rambo on us! He's probably out in the woods now hunting Squirrels and rabbits. "Well he is ex military. Not that he’s ever mentioned it before | |||
"He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one! "You really don't get it do you? I used hyperbole, and rather than saying your exaggerating but I get your point maybe we need to start making some contingency plans for if the worst comes to the worst your reaction is that I've lost it. At what point do you and those who share your mindset start thinking that this may not work out the way you want? Remember if I am wrong (and I really pray I am) I look like an idiot (and I'll happily live with that). If you are wrong and I am even partially right the country will be grinding to a halt very quickly people will start to die unnecessarily. But I guess you will be able to claim that you had no way of knowing that any of this could happen. After all its not like shops run out of food in hours and people die because they fail to listen to the warnings issued every time there is a severe weather event in this country. And anyway its brexit not a severe storm. | |||
"Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose
Funny thing is I am former military and I was taught always to plan for the worst possible situation I could think of, and when planning for that make it happen on a New Years Eve night during the worst winter storm in 100 years during a power cut.
All I see from brexiteers is 'everything is going to be fine and dandy!', 'they need us more than we need them!' and of course your a typical remoaner, you need to get behind brexit and make it work!
HOW?
WHAT DO WE DO IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT AND WE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOTHING AT MIDNIGHT 29 March NEXT YEAR?
I SEE NO PLAN!
I SEE NO PLANNING!
I SEE A BUNCH OF TOTAL INCOMPETENTS STICKING THEIR HEADS UP EACH OTHERS ARSES!
Sorry for the shouting, but maybe you would do better if you stopped telling me how hard you are because you are a proud football thug or a herring who has swallowed the crap that Farage has pumped out while feathering his nest with an EU pension and actually asked yourselves 'how will I survive if it turns out that brexit is not just a bag of shite, but is an ocean of slurry that is drowning everyone?
Personally I know what I will do, I probably will not survive because I am too dam old and fat, but I expect I'll last longer than most my age and many a lot younger. How are your survival skills Centy? Did standing on the terraces at Chelsea teach you how to live off the land and protect your partner in a war-zone Steve? I suspect the two of you like the vast majority of the country have not got a clue, and just 'know' that everything will be fine.
Spend the time (bout an hour) to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milbW4RDIco
Change the bomb to the economy and just think.
Ask yourself some simple questions:
I the shops an out of food today how long can I survive on what I have in stock?
How long will it be before my neighbours run out of food?
How long will it be before I am fighting for my life to protect what food I have left?
Be honest with yourselves, and then come back and tell me how there is nothing to worry about, and how confident you are that BoJo, Javid and the Maybot have everything under control so there is nothing to fear.
He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one!
He's gone Rambo on us! He's probably out in the woods now hunting Squirrels and rabbits.
Well he is ex military. Not that he’s ever mentioned it before "He has mentioned it before when he was going to beat up Donald Trump ! I think he was in the Salvation Army has he's always preaching about how bad the world is! I could see him with a tamborine! Lol | |||
"Firstly thanks for the compliment and yes I am proud to be a Brxiteer and will happily stand up and be counted when the time comes. Your the perfect remainer pushing the doom scenario trying to scare people but now you should stop being negative and try being positive. I've changed my career several times in my life and we are just starting a new business as we have confidence in the future of this country to pull together and get through what's coming and no one knows the outcome yet. I'm not sitting on my arse waiting for doom and if things go wrong we will just work harder to get it right. I'm a Chelsea fan and have been confronted by plenty of mobs in my life and have never run or cowered in a corner so no worries there and it sounds like you want the country to fail. People like me will make the jobs to replace the ones we lose
Funny thing is I am former military and I was taught always to plan for the worst possible situation I could think of, and when planning for that make it happen on a New Years Eve night during the worst winter storm in 100 years during a power cut.
All I see from brexiteers is 'everything is going to be fine and dandy!', 'they need us more than we need them!' and of course your a typical remoaner, you need to get behind brexit and make it work!
HOW?
WHAT DO WE DO IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT AND WE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOTHING AT MIDNIGHT 29 March NEXT YEAR?
I SEE NO PLAN!
I SEE NO PLANNING!
I SEE A BUNCH OF TOTAL INCOMPETENTS STICKING THEIR HEADS UP EACH OTHERS ARSES!
Sorry for the shouting, but maybe you would do better if you stopped telling me how hard you are because you are a proud football thug or a herring who has swallowed the crap that Farage has pumped out while feathering his nest with an EU pension and actually asked yourselves 'how will I survive if it turns out that brexit is not just a bag of shite, but is an ocean of slurry that is drowning everyone?
Personally I know what I will do, I probably will not survive because I am too dam old and fat, but I expect I'll last longer than most my age and many a lot younger. How are your survival skills Centy? Did standing on the terraces at Chelsea teach you how to live off the land and protect your partner in a war-zone Steve? I suspect the two of you like the vast majority of the country have not got a clue, and just 'know' that everything will be fine.
Spend the time (bout an hour) to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milbW4RDIco
Change the bomb to the economy and just think.
Ask yourself some simple questions:
I the shops an out of food today how long can I survive on what I have in stock?
How long will it be before my neighbours run out of food?
How long will it be before I am fighting for my life to protect what food I have left?
Be honest with yourselves, and then come back and tell me how there is nothing to worry about, and how confident you are that BoJo, Javid and the Maybot have everything under control so there is nothing to fear.
He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one!
He's gone Rambo on us! He's probably out in the woods now hunting Squirrels and rabbits.
Well he is ex military. Not that he’s ever mentioned it before
He has mentioned it before when he was going to beat up Donald Trump ! I think he was in the Salvation Army has he's always preaching about how bad the world is! I could see him with a tamborine! Lol "Ah yes and he thinks that Clinton is a better bloke than Trump even though Clinton allowed funds to be raised for the bullets that were being fired at him. You couldn’t make it up | |||
"He's finally lost the plot completely! I suggest a long break from the forums and get back to a normal life if you have one!
You really don't get it do you?
I used hyperbole, and rather than saying your exaggerating but I get your point maybe we need to start making some contingency plans for if the worst comes to the worst your reaction is that I've lost it. At what point do you and those who share your mindset start thinking that this may not work out the way you want?
Remember if I am wrong (and I really pray I am) I look like an idiot (and I'll happily live with that). If you are wrong and I am even partially right the country will be grinding to a halt very quickly people will start to die unnecessarily.
But I guess you will be able to claim that you had no way of knowing that any of this could happen. After all its not like shops run out of food in hours and people die because they fail to listen to the warnings issued every time there is a severe weather event in this country. And anyway its brexit not a severe storm."Oh Will you do like to exagerate! Go outside, take a deep breath and calm down! | |||
"To me, yes. Is "control" of a diminished nation more important for others? I'm saying this because of Farage's latest comment: "I made ONE absolute promise in that campaign … We will be in control … for good or for bad … I never promised it would be a huge success, I never said it would be a failure, I just said we'd be in control" No I couldn't be bothered to listen to 55 minutes of him on LBC to get the context. Anyone else is welcome to though. I'm more interested in the sentiment. There is no gain without pain In this world so yes a hard Brexit will cause pain for some but will also cause gain for others and it's the long term gain which we should all try hard together to make happen so that no one loses out long term . No one that voted for Brexit that I know thought it would be easy to leave and painless but they and us 2 still want it to happen. So our awnser is yes but also no as it is inevitable there will be losers as Well as winners. That's life in a democratic country I'm afraid to say. Of course the irony is that a lot of the losers will be those who voted Brexit. I shan't be shedding any tears for them any time ever. As long as the remoaners feel the pain too I'm cool with that and no tears will be shed for them . A good result today in the commons so maybe now that Europe can see we might walk away they will come to their senses and work with us. "*They* will come to *their* senses and work with us"?! Where have you been for the past 2 years?! "Work with us" on what?! *We* don't even know what we want. Government is negotiating *more* within their party than with the EU. And it's *the EU* that needs to work with *us*?! I mean WTF?! If what has been happening over the last 2 years was the other way around, and it was the EU that couldn't make up its mind, you guys would have been foaming at the mouth screaming and shouting that they're messing us around! But when *we* are the ones that are all over the place, then "the EU must come to their senses and work with us" Wtf is wrong with you people?! Has your hatred of the EU made you go deaf and blind?!
I suggest you move to Europe if you love them so much. I'm off to cap soon so can drop you off if you want
The Italians round up the Roma, Trump the children, Myanamar forced the Roningya to flee, Putin kills journalists that speak up against his regime, Kim Jong Un starves, tortures and kills his own people, Assad gasses and kills women and children... the list is long. Now we can add to that list the UK, where the Brexiteers "kindly suggest" those who dare to point out that the mess we're in is *our* doing and not the EU's, leave the country. How long before you round them all up and ship them off? I see, in my case, not very long, if your "kind offer" to drop me off at cap is anything to go by.
Democracy at its best. "If you're not with us, you're against us". That's where we're at and, making the list I talked about earlier, is where we're heading. If this is what being a proud Brexiteer "patriot" is, thanks but no thanks.
Wasn't it a remainer (even though he admits he voted Leave) who talked about remainers rounding up Brexiters after we've fully left the EU. Without mentioning names it's pretty clear to see who it was from the earlier comments. "I don't know. And I suspect the person who very kindly offered to "drop me off" at cap, doesn't know either. What are you trying to say though? That because someone from one side said something, then the other side must go one better?! Seriously?! I was asked more than once (and I guess other remainers too, by implication) to leave the country. Now, I get "offers" to be dropped off abroad. And all because I express my opinion. Some people on here need to remember that NO Brexiteer has more rights than EVERYONE else, whether that's to express opinions or continue living at their home. I must have missed the small print when I voted. Did it really say "vote remain and give up your right to live in this country and/or express opinions in support of remain"?
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"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared"." What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say! "Hysteria! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say! "Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name. | |||
Telling people to fuck off to the EU.Shows They are all about cleansing this nation of undesirable opinions and people.I get a message at least once a month telling me to fuck off back to where u came from or to the EU. Standard in here | |||
"The alt reich in this forum are comedy fucking gold on a daily level.Defending the indefensible then getting their panties in a twist.Sad ,so very sad.
Telling people to fuck off to the EU.Shows They are all about cleansing this nation of undesirable opinions and people.I get a message at least once a month telling me to fuck off back to where u came from or to the EU. Standard in here "Come on we are waiting for the "R" word, it's the only way you know how to win a debate! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name."Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers! "Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle "Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle
Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! "ilecsay it again shut up for gods sake you talk garbage | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle
Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! ilecsay it again shut up for gods sake you talk garbage "Just not as much garbage as you do, go and try to think of something intelligent to say if that's possible! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle
Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! ilecsay it again shut up for gods sake you talk garbage
Just not as much garbage as you do, go and try to think of something intelligent to say if that's possible! "Hello | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle
Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! ilecsay it again shut up for gods sake you talk garbage
Just not as much garbage as you do, go and try to think of something intelligent to say if that's possible!
Hello "That just about sums it up, I rest my case! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle
Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! ilecsay it again shut up for gods sake you talk garbage
Just not as much garbage as you do, go and try to think of something intelligent to say if that's possible!
Hello
That just about sums it up, I rest my case! "that’s good I’m so pleased | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
Oh shut up for gods sake what a load of waffle
Is that the best you can come up with, another one full of hot air! ilecsay it again shut up for gods sake you talk garbage
Just not as much garbage as you do, go and try to think of something intelligent to say if that's possible!
Hello
That just about sums it up, I rest my case! that’s good I’m so pleased "Me too! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers! "I don't need to "make out"/think anything. The *evidence* is just a few posts above, where a number of you are high-fiving each other over quite a few posts, while mocking another forum member, as well as using insulting language towards him and ridiculing him. And this is not the first time something like that has happened. You hope that intimidating someone will make them shut up? Are you trying to gag people? Are your opinions/contributions more important than theirs?! It's a *discussion* forum! Key word: discussion. You can attack someone's views all you like. Getting personal, insulting, intimidating, ridiculing and bullying someone, doesn't make you big or clever. If anything, quite the opposite. You'd have thought we're all adults here and we know better. Thankfully some *do* know better because, I'm sure, there are people who want/can do the same thing to me/you/him/her but don't. They're not any less big or clever. Finally, I never said anything about "remainerS" in general. I specifically objected to what I saw happen on this thread, a few posts above. Anyway, there's not much point in continuing this conversation with you (for now) because obviously you think you can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault in some way (whoever's pointing it out to you included)! Plus, the thread has been hijacked enough. I'm sure we'll re-visit the issue though. Unfortunately. | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
I don't need to "make out"/think anything. The *evidence* is just a few posts above, where a number of you are high-fiving each other over quite a few posts, while mocking another forum member, as well as using insulting language towards him and ridiculing him. And this is not the first time something like that has happened. You hope that intimidating someone will make them shut up? Are you trying to gag people? Are your opinions/contributions more important than theirs?! It's a *discussion* forum! Key word: discussion. You can attack someone's views all you like. Getting personal, insulting, intimidating, ridiculing and bullying someone, doesn't make you big or clever. If anything, quite the opposite. You'd have thought we're all adults here and we know better. Thankfully some *do* know better because, I'm sure, there are people who want/can do the same thing to me/you/him/her but don't. They're not any less big or clever.
Finally, I never said anything about "remainerS" in general. I specifically objected to what I saw happen on this thread, a few posts above.
Anyway, there's not much point in continuing this conversation with you (for now) because obviously you think you can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault in some way (whoever's pointing it out to you included)! Plus, the thread has been hijacked enough. I'm sure we'll re-visit the issue though. Unfortunately.
"Plenty of instances of remainers getting personal on this forum on other threads, using insulting language towards Brexiters, intimidating, ridiculing and bullying too, you've even engaged in this behaviour yourself, so please quit with the holier than thou bullshit. It won't wash here. | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! That is a reasonable point. This process still hasn't resolved itself rough However, this happened during a worldwide boom. The east never confronted its Nazi past that is the centre of right wing anti-immigration rhetoric and intolerance. Democracy is not rooted and prosperity is not as diffused. There remains a yearning for the certainty of the past and the old trope of someone else being to blame for your ills. The Jews. The West. The EU. Immigrants. Where does Merkel come from?" You really are very like Centaur in that you ignore the main point to raise a minor one that you can "win"
This from someone who cannot find a single weakness in Brexit nor a benefit in remaining. Someone who cannot bring himself to acknowledge that remainers may have the best interests of their country at heart just as you do.
Demanding answers to his questions but not having the courtesy to respond in kind when a considered response is given.
Someone who asserts that I am "wrong" having previously accused me of arrogance.
Merkel is from East Germany. The behaviour of an individual does not define a population so your point is a petty one.
Germany was also RE-unifying and growing not breaking away from an international block and becoming less influential than it could be.
We have barely recovered from the last recession and about to tip into another one which will be hastened and made deeper by a US trade war. We survived the last one in large part because our domestic market was the entire EU.
As a side note, the irony of the former Communist states joining the EU is that they have become the most right wing and autocratic. The most liberal and adventurous having left for new employment opportunities leaving the old and the fearful at home to shape the country in their own image. Extending their hands for development funding but not to share the burden of the refugee crisis. It would be an easy filter. If you don't want to live in Hungary then you aren't really in fear of your life.
Certainly a very negative unplanned consequence of the EU. It's success feeding it's enemies.
An organisation based on consensus and negotiation cannot act in a crisis. It puts the lie to any claim of it being so powerful that it forces governments and people to do things that they don't wish to. Are we really such a weak nation that we've been bullied by them for 40 years and got nothing in return? What will suddenly make us strong now? | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say! "Do you think that the people who attend pro-facist marches voted leave, or remain? | |||
| |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Sure, once again, you try and defend the undefendable. So, keep it coming. I never ganged up on anyone, propped up by cheerleaders, and called anyone "mad" or this that and the other. What you're doing is bullying, plain and simple. Whenever I see it, I will point it out, whether you like it or not. If you don't want me to call you up on it, it's simple: don't do it! It's because of people like you that Brexiteers get a bad name.
Gang up! I replied to a post where quite clearly the poster is hysterical/ exagerating whichever way you want to put it. If someone else wants to reply to the same post that is up to them, there is no joint enterprise as you try to make out, but you like to think there's a conspiracy against remainers!
I don't need to "make out"/think anything. The *evidence* is just a few posts above, where a number of you are high-fiving each other over quite a few posts, while mocking another forum member, as well as using insulting language towards him and ridiculing him. And this is not the first time something like that has happened. You hope that intimidating someone will make them shut up? Are you trying to gag people? Are your opinions/contributions more important than theirs?! It's a *discussion* forum! Key word: discussion. You can attack someone's views all you like. Getting personal, insulting, intimidating, ridiculing and bullying someone, doesn't make you big or clever. If anything, quite the opposite. You'd have thought we're all adults here and we know better. Thankfully some *do* know better because, I'm sure, there are people who want/can do the same thing to me/you/him/her but don't. They're not any less big or clever.
Finally, I never said anything about "remainerS" in general. I specifically objected to what I saw happen on this thread, a few posts above.
Anyway, there's not much point in continuing this conversation with you (for now) because obviously you think you can do no wrong and it's always someone else's fault in some way (whoever's pointing it out to you included)! Plus, the thread has been hijacked enough. I'm sure we'll re-visit the issue though. Unfortunately.
"Trying to get on the moral high ground again!It wasn't long a go you were saying you were all for immigration as long as they were doing all the menial jobs, but you are a lovely person so you couldn't mean anything offensive by that! The individual concerned ridicules himself with each post he writes, there is no need for anyone else to do it!I have broad shoulders and wouldn't be concerned about what someone may post on here let alone feel bullied, but we are all different aren't we! | |||
"As for the bitchfest going on by the "Mean girls" again, Dominic Grieve said it best yesterday: "Those who the Gods want to destroy, they first render mad. And I have to say, there's enough madness around at the moment, to make one start to question whether collective sanity in this country has disappeared". What about your bitchfest when you were inferring that anyone who had voted to leave would have been on the march to protest about Tommy Robinson, don't deny it! You try to make yourself out to be the voice of moderation but you most definitely aren't! You only have to read the posts of a certain poster to tell all is not well, whether it's histeria, exageration or something else I can't say!
Do you think that the people who attend pro-facist marches voted leave, or remain? "Best to go and ask them for an accurate answer, we don't want to jump to conclusions do we! | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! That is a reasonable point. This process still hasn't resolved itself rough However, this happened during a worldwide boom. The east never confronted its Nazi past that is the centre of right wing anti-immigration rhetoric and intolerance. Democracy is not rooted and prosperity is not as diffused. There remains a yearning for the certainty of the past and the old trope of someone else being to blame for your ills. The Jews. The West. The EU. Immigrants. Where does Merkel come from? You really are very like Centaur in that you ignore the main point to raise a minor one that you can "win"
This from someone who cannot find a single weakness in Brexit nor a benefit in remaining. Someone who cannot bring himself to acknowledge that remainers may have the best interests of their country at heart just as you do.
Demanding answers to his questions but not having the courtesy to respond in kind when a considered response is given.
Someone who asserts that I am "wrong" having previously accused me of arrogance.
Merkel is from East Germany. The behaviour of an individual does not define a population so your point is a petty one.
Germany was also RE-unifying and growing not breaking away from an international block and becoming less influential than it could be.
We have barely recovered from the last recession and about to tip into another one which will be hastened and made deeper by a US trade war. We survived the last one in large part because our domestic market was the entire EU.
As a side note, the irony of the former Communist states joining the EU is that they have become the most right wing and autocratic. The most liberal and adventurous having left for new employment opportunities leaving the old and the fearful at home to shape the country in their own image. Extending their hands for development funding but not to share the burden of the refugee crisis. It would be an easy filter. If you don't want to live in Hungary then you aren't really in fear of your life.
Certainly a very negative unplanned consequence of the EU. It's success feeding it's enemies.
An organisation based on consensus and negotiation cannot act in a crisis. It puts the lie to any claim of it being so powerful that it forces governments and people to do things that they don't wish to. Are we really such a weak nation that we've been bullied by them for 40 years and got nothing in return? What will suddenly make us strong now? "You really have no understanding of what is happening in the east. People aren’t leaving because they are liberal and adventurous ya wally, they are leaving because they are skint because they have been let down by the EU over jobs, taxes and higher utility bills. I haven’t got a clue what the rest of the post is about | |||
"The question I posed was does it matter if Brexit makes the UK poorer? I asked because I want to understand how and why "being in control" is so important regardless of the consequences. It is not inevitable that short term gain will lead to future success. It can just as easily lead to failure. Neither is more likely over the scale of fifty to a hundred years. However, it is becoming apparent that short term pin is likely, especially in a time of international instability. My experience is that being part of a group provides greater overall benefits in exchange for individual compromises that keep the group together. That's how families, tribes, cities and nations are built. Why are China or India any less diverse than Europe? Should they be broken up of the richer regions feel that they are being used in some way? Why is democracy at the local or national level where some people get what they want and others don't any different to that at the EU level? Are we really such victims? I asked in a previous thread if leaving was a logical or emotional argument. I do not think either logic or emotion are necessarily more valid in the context of politics. There was little appetite to say that it was an emotional decision. However there is a on-going need to demand that Brexit (whatever form it takes) is supported without question. The judiciary, civil service, politicians, press and individual citizens must support it or be branded traitors. The opinions of 48% of the country should no longer be heard or taken accounted for yet somehow a bitterly divided country is on the cusp of becoming stronger? If only the 48% who don't want it would leave eh? That would certainly make the UK much stronger." You keep banging on about being stronger together so stop asking stupid questions and moaning about Brexit and get behind it because we’re all stronger together aren’t we? | |||
| |||
"A leak from a government planning meeting last week claims that May wants to cut our military even more. In fact she is questioning our need to be a tier 1 nation. To fully understand how mad this is, the RoI Army Ranger Wing claim Tier 1 status as do military units of about half the world and virtually every country in the world aspires to having a Tier 1 military unit regardless of its wealth. However in preparation for brexit our government lead by the party of strong defence are looking to make savings by scrapping our most highly trained troops. On the up side. If this goes ahead they (cabinet members) will all lose their highly trained personal protection units. LoL" And there’s an upside to killing democratically elected politicians? ‘Leaked’? Lol. Maybe May is focusing EU minds on how much we spend on defence and how much they rely on us | |||
"And there’s an upside to killing democratically elected politicians? ‘Leaked’? Lol. Maybe May is focusing EU minds on how much we spend on defence and how much they rely on us" Could be, but I am sure the cabinet will find the money in the public purse to buy themselves some protections supplied by a private foreign enterprise. You may be right, she may be taking a leaf out of Trumps book and looking to pick fights and bully her way to brexit. If so I hope she has more success than Trump is having so far. I hear that the sale of US made goods is collapsing in Canada and that because of how quickly the tariffs imposed on US goods are biting that Trump is planning to double down and add more. Of course, chances are that all that will achieve is another round of reciprocal tariffs eventually leading to an even bigger climbdown by Trump. Or maybe Trump and May will not back down. I wonder how that will work out for both of them? (At least in Trump's case we will know in November. With May we could have to wait a little longer to experience the full result.) | |||
"It's the long term that matters ! German re unification made Germany poorer for a while ! But it was still the right thing to do ! That is a reasonable point. This process still hasn't resolved itself rough However, this happened during a worldwide boom. The east never confronted its Nazi past that is the centre of right wing anti-immigration rhetoric and intolerance. Democracy is not rooted and prosperity is not as diffused. There remains a yearning for the certainty of the past and the old trope of someone else being to blame for your ills. The Jews. The West. The EU. Immigrants. Where does Merkel come from? You really are very like Centaur in that you ignore the main point to raise a minor one that you can "win"
This from someone who cannot find a single weakness in Brexit nor a benefit in remaining. Someone who cannot bring himself to acknowledge that remainers may have the best interests of their country at heart just as you do.
Demanding answers to his questions but not having the courtesy to respond in kind when a considered response is given.
Someone who asserts that I am "wrong" having previously accused me of arrogance.
Merkel is from East Germany. The behaviour of an individual does not define a population so your point is a petty one.
Germany was also RE-unifying and growing not breaking away from an international block and becoming less influential than it could be.
We have barely recovered from the last recession and about to tip into another one which will be hastened and made deeper by a US trade war. We survived the last one in large part because our domestic market was the entire EU.
As a side note, the irony of the former Communist states joining the EU is that they have become the most right wing and autocratic. The most liberal and adventurous having left for new employment opportunities leaving the old and the fearful at home to shape the country in their own image. Extending their hands for development funding but not to share the burden of the refugee crisis. It would be an easy filter. If you don't want to live in Hungary then you aren't really in fear of your life.
Certainly a very negative unplanned consequence of the EU. It's success feeding it's enemies.
An organisation based on consensus and negotiation cannot act in a crisis. It puts the lie to any claim of it being so powerful that it forces governments and people to do things that they don't wish to. Are we really such a weak nation that we've been bullied by them for 40 years and got nothing in return? What will suddenly make us strong now?
You really have no understanding of what is happening in the east. People aren’t leaving because they are liberal and adventurous ya wally, they are leaving because they are skint because they have been let down by the EU over jobs, taxes and higher utility bills.
I haven’t got a clue what the rest of the post is about "So, once again, you respond to one narrow point. Today's reason for not replying to the rest is that you don't understand it? I did not state that people left Eastern European states due to their personal values. I said that the young, most dynamic and open left to find new opportunities abroad which were open to them due to EU membership. By definition it is people with those traits that emigrate, not the ones who are old or suspicious of the world. Since joining the accession states have benefited from huge investment. Why is it the responsibility of the EU to deliver on jobs, taxes and the cost of utility bills? You do not understand that the UK being within a You do not understand that you have not been able to list a single weakness of Brexit or a strength of EU membership? You do not understand that you previously asked about Michael Foot's argument against the EU but have twice failed to indicate why India and China are any less diverse than Europe but aren't expected to be broken up? You don't understand that being able to count on the EU as our internal market helped us through the chaos of the last recession? You don't understand that we are very likely to be headed into another recession whilst engaged in a trade war and imposing our own additional barriers to trade with the EU? It would be interesting if you could address these points rather ignore them. Will you though? | |||
