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If I Identify as a woman on a Saturday
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Moot not mute!
That’s cool... I’ll recognise and admit my mistakes
Will you do so in your other threads.... "
it would consume the entire bandwidth of this site mind  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just because a man identifies as a woman it does not mean that women have to adept that.
Just as if a woman identifies as a man other men do not.
I don’t really care who or what someone does or how they wish to live thier lives but why should it have to effect everything else ?
There are 2 basic genders so live as you wish.
But if you still have the original plumbing then you are still a man |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Sexes, there are two sexes.
Either attributed at birth by a casual glance at the genitilia.
That casual glance determines if you are dressed in pink or blue, get dolls or cars as presents and told to look for a career as a secretary or an engineer.
That casual glance, that determination by a complete stranger, “It’s a boy, Mrs Brown”, shapes how the rest of the world treats you ever after.
For 99 per cent of people, it’s not an issue.
But I’m sure everyone accepts that not every fetus enters the world perfectly.
Some have deformities, conditions, weaknesses.
Every fetus is female until about 13-15 weeks, when a switch is flicked in the woman. Fifty per cent get showered in chemicals that change the fetus from female to male. Do you think that always happens perfectly? I don’t.
Gender is what is between your ears, sex is what is between your legs, basically.
For some, it is an incongruous position that can lead to terrible strain. Some opt to end their lives, others learn to accept and embrace it and some realise the only cure is clinical intervention to align the brain to the body.
So please do not define everyone by that casual glance seconds after they were born, and which they had no say whatsoever in.
Just be glad that your own sense of self matches the physical self.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Sexes, there are two sexes.
Either attributed at birth by a casual glance at the genitilia.
That casual glance determines if you are dressed in pink or blue, get dolls or cars as presents and told to look for a career as a secretary or an engineer.
That casual glance, that determination by a complete stranger, “It’s a boy, Mrs Brown”, shapes how the rest of the world treats you ever after.
For 99 per cent of people, it’s not an issue.
But I’m sure everyone accepts that not every fetus enters the world perfectly.
Some have deformities, conditions, weaknesses.
Every fetus is female until about 13-15 weeks, when a switch is flicked in the woman. Fifty per cent get showered in chemicals that change the fetus from female to male. Do you think that always happens perfectly? I don’t.
Gender is what is between your ears, sex is what is between your legs, basically.
For some, it is an incongruous position that can lead to terrible strain. Some opt to end their lives, others learn to accept and embrace it and some realise the only cure is clinical intervention to align the brain to the body.
So please do not define everyone by that casual glance seconds after they were born, and which they had no say whatsoever in.
Just be glad that your own sense of self matches the physical self.
"
What should the person delivering a baby say, if not "it's a boy" or "it's a girl"? |
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"Sexes, there are two sexes.
Either attributed at birth by a casual glance at the genitilia.
That casual glance determines if you are dressed in pink or blue, get dolls or cars as presents and told to look for a career as a secretary or an engineer.
That casual glance, that determination by a complete stranger, “It’s a boy, Mrs Brown”, shapes how the rest of the world treats you ever after.
For 99 per cent of people, it’s not an issue.
But I’m sure everyone accepts that not every fetus enters the world perfectly.
Some have deformities, conditions, weaknesses.
Every fetus is female until about 13-15 weeks, when a switch is flicked in the woman. Fifty per cent get showered in chemicals that change the fetus from female to male. Do you think that always happens perfectly? I don’t.
Gender is what is between your ears, sex is what is between your legs, basically.
For some, it is an incongruous position that can lead to terrible strain. Some opt to end their lives, others learn to accept and embrace it and some realise the only cure is clinical intervention to align the brain to the body.
So please do not define everyone by that casual glance seconds after they were born, and which they had no say whatsoever in.
Just be glad that your own sense of self matches the physical self.
What should the person delivering a baby say, if not "it's a boy" or "it's a girl"?"
“ you have a healthy baby “  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
What should the person delivering a baby say, if not "it's a boy" or "it's a girl"?"
If the parents are Tories:- "Congratulations, your university place has been confirmed"
If the parents are are Liberals:- "Congratulations, your gender non-specific human has arrived"
To the single parent Labour voter:- "Congratulations, your ticket to benefits is here" |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Dave- is this thread about TG or recent politics involving selection for MPS etc? "
.
Yes the two labour "guys" attempting to an easier route via a female short list.
It rather made me chuckle  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Sexes, there are two sexes.
Either attributed at birth by a casual glance at the genitilia.
That casual glance determines if you are dressed in pink or blue, get dolls or cars as presents and told to look for a career as a secretary or an engineer.
That casual glance, that determination by a complete stranger, “It’s a boy, Mrs Brown”, shapes how the rest of the world treats you ever after.
For 99 per cent of people, it’s not an issue.
But I’m sure everyone accepts that not every fetus enters the world perfectly.
Some have deformities, conditions, weaknesses.
Every fetus is female until about 13-15 weeks, when a switch is flicked in the woman. Fifty per cent get showered in chemicals that change the fetus from female to male. Do you think that always happens perfectly? I don’t.
Gender is what is between your ears, sex is what is between your legs, basically.
For some, it is an incongruous position that can lead to terrible strain. Some opt to end their lives, others learn to accept and embrace it and some realise the only cure is clinical intervention to align the brain to the body.
So please do not define everyone by that casual glance seconds after they were born, and which they had no say whatsoever in.
Just be glad that your own sense of self matches the physical self.
What should the person delivering a baby say, if not "it's a boy" or "it's a girl"?
“ you have a healthy baby “ "
How would they know it's healthy?
If it wasn't, could they be sued?
What would they say if they said 'you have a healthy baby', and your response was "what is it?"
How, as parents, would you tell everyone what you've had....
"we've had a baby"....
"congratations,boy or girl",
"we don't know, it hasn't decided yet".
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Dave- is this thread about TG or recent politics involving selection for MPS etc? .
Yes the two labour "guys" attempting to an easier route via a female short list.
It rather made me chuckle "
You heard Peterson on this? |
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"Can I get on a female short list "
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action."
But if the person concerned has not gone through the procedure then they are still the same sex as they were born?
If someone has then they would be considered a female/male whichever they have changed to.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Historically that is true.
When someone undergoing reassignment was termed "transexual".
Gradually, over time, transexual has faded and been replaced by the broader "transgender".
Transgender includes people who do not undergo the surgical procedures you refer to but are living their lives in their preferred gender nonetheless.
The question you ask, which seems to be at the heart of this, is whether your genitalia define your gender, or whether your gender belongs to you and no-one else.
Genitalia defines your sex, for sure. But it does not define gender.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So, apart from the rather flippant original comment, is positive discrimination for MPs etc, the right way to go and will it further women's standing in the world? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Dave- is this thread about TG or recent politics involving selection for MPS etc? .
Yes the two labour "guys" attempting to an easier route via a female short list.
It rather made me chuckle
You heard Peterson on this? "
.
I love Jordan Peterson, he's favourite logical person |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action."
.
So I'll ask you again and remember this has nothing to do with my birth certificate or my "sex" if I think of myself as a woman on a Saturday can I get on a female short list?.
I know it opens up all sorts of tricky questions in the gender fluid question which I why I asked it and found it funny and quizzical |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I read an interesting thought the other day.
A person wrote to a newspaper with an idea to reform the House of Commons.
300 constituencies, each consisting of two separate ballots - one made up of males, one made up of females.
The result: 600 MPs and 50/50 gender split.
It struck me as a good idea.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action..
So I'll ask you again and remember this has nothing to do with my birth certificate or my "sex" if I think of myself as a woman on a Saturday can I get on a female short list?.
I know it opens up all sorts of tricky questions in the gender fluid question which I why I asked it and found it funny and quizzical"
The short answer is no as if you only became femal on a saturday then you are just playing out you're own fantasy and not living as a woman so why would you expect to be cunted as a woman.
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"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action..
So I'll ask you again and remember this has nothing to do with my birth certificate or my "sex" if I think of myself as a woman on a Saturday can I get on a female short list?.
I know it opens up all sorts of tricky questions in the gender fluid question which I why I asked it and found it funny and quizzical"
To answer your question,the answer is yes. It's all about how the words are put together to ask the question. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I read an interesting thought the other day.
A person wrote to a newspaper with an idea to reform the House of Commons.
300 constituencies, each consisting of two separate ballots - one made up of males, one made up of females.
The result: 600 MPs and 50/50 gender split.
It struck me as a good idea.
"
.
I can think of a better idea!.
Remove all political party allegiances, everybody stands as an independent!.
No manifestos, no commitments and no ideological battle ground |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I read an interesting thought the other day.
A person wrote to a newspaper with an idea to reform the House of Commons.
300 constituencies, each consisting of two separate ballots - one made up of males, one made up of females.
The result: 600 MPs and 50/50 gender split.
It struck me as a good idea.
.
I can think of a better idea!.
Remove all political party allegiances, everybody stands as an independent!.
No manifestos, no commitments and no ideological battle ground"
That sounds like a lucky dip - you have no idea what the candidates stand for, what their values might be. You might as well stick some pins in a telephone directory.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action..
So I'll ask you again and remember this has nothing to do with my birth certificate or my "sex" if I think of myself as a woman on a Saturday can I get on a female short list?.
I know it opens up all sorts of tricky questions in the gender fluid question which I why I asked it and found it funny and quizzical
The short answer is no as if you only became femal on a saturday then you are just playing out you're own fantasy and not living as a woman so why would you expect to be cunted as a woman.
"
.
But "feelings" seem to be important these days?.
How one feels about oneself has created a whole raft of pronouns, I've heard it said that because somebody "feels" like a woman they should be regarded by others as a woman because sex doesn't come into, its all about gender.
I'm not a big believer in feelings myself, I think humans are very emotional creatures which sometimes struggle not to be controlled by them |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I read an interesting thought the other day.
A person wrote to a newspaper with an idea to reform the House of Commons.
300 constituencies, each consisting of two separate ballots - one made up of males, one made up of females.
The result: 600 MPs and 50/50 gender split.
It struck me as a good idea.
.
I can think of a better idea!.
Remove all political party allegiances, everybody stands as an independent!.
No manifestos, no commitments and no ideological battle ground
That sounds like a lucky dip - you have no idea what the candidates stand for, what their values might be. You might as well stick some pins in a telephone directory.
"
.
If that was true then no independent MPs would exist would they?.
I'd probably add being born and living in the area represented as well |
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"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action.
But if the person concerned has not gone through the procedure then they are still the same sex as they were born?
If someone has then they would be considered a female/male whichever they have changed to.
"
You've seemed to have missed how I covered the transgender topic and how gender is somewhat fluid and non-binary. Sex is an imperfect methodology for determining gender as well as, for example, who should be standing in whichever category for MP selection.
If you're determined to stick with the rigid categorisation that you use: their genitalia, then frankly you're not open to discussion and learning upon this important subject that affects many peoples' lives.
Genetics shows us that not all people have either XX or XY chromosome characteristics. At birth such people may be labeled a 'sex' that doesn't reflect their realised gender as they mature.
Likewise, there are many other people who realise that their gender doesn't reflect a binary sex that they were labeled with at birth.
It's easy to be flippant and ignore the real world of today but, if we're discussing gender, then it would be a little silly to ignore both the current understandings of gender as well as how people are actually living their lives.
Whether short-lists are appropriate is another matter: though they were introduced as a measure to improve imbalances in employment etc.
There are many ways that someone may be living if they are transgender. Surgical procedures are an option that some chose but the specific genitalia of someone is a very private and personal matter and I don't see it as appropriate public information that should be revealed about a transgender candidate, unless they have chosen to do this. |
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"Can I get on a female short list
I think it's right for trans women to be included on a female short list - but your profile states that you are male, not female. If you are transgender, then my belief follows the above but it will somewhat be determined by the rules/laws in force etc.
I think intelligent people can reasonably understand that gender and sexual orientation are no longer just have the binary elements that many used to perceive.
A rigid thinking style probably hints at cognitive limitations of some sort. The UK government has discussed gender identity change proposals but hasn't followed through: it's good that a Conservative government has started with this action..
So I'll ask you again and remember this has nothing to do with my birth certificate or my "sex" if I think of myself as a woman on a Saturday can I get on a female short list?.
I know it opens up all sorts of tricky questions in the gender fluid question which I why I asked it and found it funny and quizzical"
So, hypothetically, if a person defines themselves as female, when born and defined as a male, on day 1 (Saturday), can they get onto a female short-list that day? Theoretically yes but is it going to happen - I'd imagine no. There will come a point where such hypothetical situations are stated in black and white, such as a person needing to have lived for a specific period of time, having changed their public records, or any of the other minutiae of life that some body or other will declare is essential. Those who make puerile attempts to disclose a fictitious gender identity for themselves are showing hostility towards transgender identity issues as well as the possible issues around women in political representation.
If someone has a definite issue with political processes, there are many ways in which they can discuss these processes, without resorting to potential humiliation of others or harming gender and transgender identity inclusivity.
What does the op propose is a mature and intelligent way for these problems to be addressed? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"I read an interesting thought the other day.
A person wrote to a newspaper with an idea to reform the House of Commons.
300 constituencies, each consisting of two separate ballots - one made up of males, one made up of females.
The result: 600 MPs and 50/50 gender split.
It struck me as a good idea.
.
I can think of a better idea!.
Remove all political party allegiances, everybody stands as an independent!.
No manifestos, no commitments and no ideological battle ground
That sounds like a lucky dip - you have no idea what the candidates stand for, what their values might be. You might as well stick some pins in a telephone directory.
.
If that was true then no independent MPs would exist would they?.
I'd probably add being born and living in the area represented as well"
Hardly a free society, though, is it, when you disqualify people from standing for election because they belong to a political party?
We used to disqualify women, men who did not own property, Catholics, men who were not members of the Church of England.
We don't need to go backwards and start disqualifying people. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I read an interesting thought the other day.
A person wrote to a newspaper with an idea to reform the House of Commons.
300 constituencies, each consisting of two separate ballots - one made up of males, one made up of females.
The result: 600 MPs and 50/50 gender split.
It struck me as a good idea.
.
I can think of a better idea!.
Remove all political party allegiances, everybody stands as an independent!.
No manifestos, no commitments and no ideological battle ground
That sounds like a lucky dip - you have no idea what the candidates stand for, what their values might be. You might as well stick some pins in a telephone directory.
.
If that was true then no independent MPs would exist would they?.
I'd probably add being born and living in the area represented as well
Hardly a free society, though, is it, when you disqualify people from standing for election because they belong to a political party?
We used to disqualify women, men who did not own property, Catholics, men who were not members of the Church of England.
We don't need to go backwards and start disqualifying people."
.
I've never really been a fan of identity politics, the more I see the less I like it,I mean there's hundreds of thousands of conservatives that frankly don't like 60% of the conservative party policies yet go along with it because they couldn't bring themselves to vote labour |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Thresholds.
I think that's what this thread is about.
When should someone be accepted as being a man or a woman, when they were declared at birth to be the opposite.
At one end of the threshold argument is the vagina argument - that only someone with a surgically constructed vagina (or penis) is eligible.
At the other is the title of this thread, that anyone can self-identify, irrespective of how serious they are.
I agree there needs to be a threshold.
The answer is somewhere in between those two.
It's a shame the current Government pulled back from a promised consultation to determine what the threshold should be.
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With the specifics of political parties, at least they have their own rules upon membership, standing for election, conduct etc. The important issue of legal gender identity still needs some work and guts from the government. |
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