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should the railways be renationalised?
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Funnily enough, the service on the East Coast has probably been the best under Virgin. More trains, and some dirt cheap fares.
Nationalisation is a contentious issue. You need to take the best bits from privatisation, and then combine them with a stronger element of Goverment control. Then you stand half a chance of getting a world class service. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"after virgin/stagecoach gave the keys of the east coast railway back to the government... and the troubles at southern ...
should franchising end? "
Sering as it's happened to East coast 3 times now, it should be investigated as to why, but yes i reckon it should be |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Funnily enough, the service on the East Coast has probably been the best under Virgin. More trains, and some dirt cheap fares.
Nationalisation is a contentious issue. You need to take the best bits from privatisation, and then combine them with a stronger element of Goverment control. Then you stand half a chance of getting a world class service."
actually i would say the east coast ran best and smoothly in the bit between national express and virgin when it was run ironically by..... the government!
it made a profit..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Go back to the nightmare that was British Rail!?! God no!"
Why not employ the same managers from the private sector but in a public sector railway without government interference.
These franchises are just not working !!! |
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"Funnily enough, the service on the East Coast has probably been the best under Virgin. More trains, and some dirt cheap fares.
Nationalisation is a contentious issue. You need to take the best bits from privatisation, and then combine them with a stronger element of Goverment control. Then you stand half a chance of getting a world class service.
actually i would say the east coast ran best and smoothly in the bit between national express and virgin when it was run ironically by..... the government!
it made a profit....."
It made less of a profit for the government than the current VTEC arrangement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Go back to the nightmare that was British Rail!?! God no!
Wasn't some of it called Intercity? Then nicknamed Intershitty by the public because of the shit service it provided. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Go back to the nightmare that was British Rail!?! God no!
Wasn't some of it called Intercity? Then nicknamed Intershitty by the public because of the shit service it provided. "
Not trying to say whats right or wrong but im pretty sure the British public complain about sny service |
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"Go back to the nightmare that was British Rail!?! God no!
Wasn't some of it called Intercity? Then nicknamed Intershitty by the public because of the shit service it provided.
Not trying to say whats right or wrong but im pretty sure the British public complain about sny service"
No, that is the Americans. We put up with crap. They don't. |
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I think a service that's vital to the country like this would be better in state ownership. This privatization has created an over-complex system that is also too expensive.
As the government is responsible for reducing greenhouse gases, it's also a key way for it to do this, through having end to end control. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
This country needs a radical overhaul of its political system before anyone starts talking about Nationalisation of anything. Look how the NHS is treated as Govt's come and go - it is not right that any nationalized industry/entity gets starved/flooded with money according to the motivations of the incumbent Govt.
Yes to nationalization (and a reformed NHS) as long as the planning, funding, and execution of the businesses are ringfenced from the sitting Govt. |
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"I think a service that's vital to the country like this would be better in state ownership. This privatization has created an over-complex system that is also too expensive.
As the government is responsible for reducing greenhouse gases, it's also a key way for it to do this, through having end to end control. "
How can the government do anything about any of that?
And the greenhouse gases point is laughable! Take the ECML - the trains are being built and tested under VTEC at the moment and enter service in October!
So the government are taking over in June, how can they reduce greenhouse gases? Bin the new trains and order some different ones?! |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I work in the rail industry and have for many years, and yes, it needs renationalisation.
Name a nationalised industry that works!"
the royal mail..... but thats a different subject......
so since the ECML makes a profile... virgin and stagecoach are then guilty of overestimating the profits they thought they could make.... they got greedy!!!
there is nothing to stop companies from doing this... 3 times now, and 3 times they basically walk away |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the great wall of gammon arguing for the retention of a system where the european owners of rail franchises fleece customers in order to subsidise european state rail networks ... how very fucking odd |
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"I work in the rail industry and have for many years, and yes, it needs renationalisation.
Name a nationalised industry that works!
the royal mail..... but thats a different subject......
so since the ECML makes a profile... virgin and stagecoach are then guilty of overestimating the profits they thought they could make.... they got greedy!!!
there is nothing to stop companies from doing this... 3 times now, and 3 times they basically walk away"
But they walk away having made more money for the government than when the government ran it, and having spent more money on improvements than when the government ran it, so what is the problem?
The trains stay the same. The 125s are from the 1970s. The 225s from the early 1990s, but refurbished often. The staff are the same. The route is the same. The journey time is the same. There are more trains. The off-peak fares are cheaper. |
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"the great wall of gammon arguing for the retention of a system where the european owners of rail franchises fleece customers in order to subsidise european state rail networks ... how very fucking odd "
VTEC is 90% owned by Stagecoach - based in Perth, Scotland and 10% owned by Virgin group, based in London, England.
So it's hardly "European owners, and European state rail networks" is it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the great wall of gammon arguing for the retention of a system where the european owners of rail franchises fleece customers in order to subsidise european state rail networks ... how very fucking odd
VTEC is 90% owned by Stagecoach - based in Perth, Scotland and 10% owned by Virgin group, based in London, England.
So it's hardly "European owners, and European state rail networks" is it?"
the fact is that two thirds of british rail operators are owned by european state owned companies .... the great wall of gammon arguing for the retention of a system where the european owners of rail franchises fleece customers in order to subsidise european state rail networks ... how very fucking odd |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I work in the rail industry and have for many years, and yes, it needs renationalisation.
Name a nationalised industry that works!"
The NHS, schools, the police(you could argue) etc etc etc.
Why would you argue for privatisation when it clearly diminishes service and runs up profits for billionaires? If it succeeds, fat cats rake in the profits, if it fails, we foot the bill.
Of course re-nationalise! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This country needs a radical overhaul of its political system before anyone starts talking about Nationalisation of anything. Look how the NHS is treated as Govt's come and go - it is not right that any nationalized industry/entity gets starved/flooded with money according to the motivations of the incumbent Govt.
Yes to nationalization (and a reformed NHS) as long as the planning, funding, and execution of the businesses are ringfenced from the sitting Govt."
How is this nationalisation? Nationalisation goes alongside democratic accountability and that we as a population get to say how it is run and funded, through the ballot box. |
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Virgin Trains has returned 30% per year more to taxpayers during its time running the route than did DOR, making it a much better-value option for taxpayers.Virgin Trains has invested more in the two years in which it has operated the route than DOR did in its five-and-a-half years running it. ????
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We have one of the most expensive railways in the World! Today in 2018 the system is still not completely electrified we are years behind! Like many things in the UK it's been starved of investment, poor management and someone, somewhere has made a lot of money! Greed is good! |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Funnily enough, the service on the East Coast has probably been the best under Virgin. More trains, and some dirt cheap fares.
Nationalisation is a contentious issue. You need to take the best bits from privatisation, and then combine them with a stronger element of Goverment control. Then you stand half a chance of getting a world class service.
actually i would say the east coast ran best and smoothly in the bit between national express and virgin when it was run ironically by..... the government!
it made a profit....."
There are more services now with VTEC, and there are times that I can go 100 miles by train for less than the cost of a taxi home from the pub.
The first franchise failed because, as the financial crisis hit, parent company Sea Containers could not guarantee the money to be held in reserve, as required by the terms of the franchise. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"We have one of the most expensive railways in the World! Today in 2018 the system is still not completely electrified we are years behind! Like many things in the UK it's been starved of investment, poor management and someone, somewhere has made a lot of money! Greed is good!"
Can you name any fully electrified railway system in the world? There are places where electrification is neither practical or cost effective.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have one of the most expensive railways in the World! Today in 2018 the system is still not completely electrified we are years behind! Like many things in the UK it's been starved of investment, poor management and someone, somewhere has made a lot of money! Greed is good!
Can you name any fully electrified railway system in the world? There are places where electrification is neither practical or cost effective.
"
Where did I say about "world" electrification of railways? I said we have ONE of the most expensive railways in the World! I didn't say anything about every other railway in the world being electified? You should have gone to specsavers! |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"We have one of the most expensive railways in the World! Today in 2018 the system is still not completely electrified we are years behind! Like many things in the UK it's been starved of investment, poor management and someone, somewhere has made a lot of money! Greed is good!
Can you name any fully electrified railway system in the world? There are places where electrification is neither practical or cost effective.
Where did I say about "world" electrification of railways? I said we have ONE of the most expensive railways in the World! I didn't say anything about every other railway in the world being electified? You should have gone to specsavers!"
Yes I saw. Do you believe that the UK system should be fully electrified? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
We already have a nationalised railway industry.
Train operators are owned by the governments of foreign countries.
So our government is quite happy for nationalised industry to run our railways, so long as it's not UK-owned nationalised industry.
Such is the ideological lunacy of our railways.
Profits made here are used to subsidise nationalised railways elsewhere.
Neither is there any real competition.
If there was, different companies would be competing for your journey on the same routes.
They don't. Routes are bundled up and let as a long-term contract to one company.
The fare structure is regulated.
So the railways are neither nationalised (in the typical sense) nor privatised, but a peculiar hybrid that doesn't really satisfy anyone.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have one of the most expensive railways in the World! Today in 2018 the system is still not completely electrified we are years behind! Like many things in the UK it's been starved of investment, poor management and someone, somewhere has made a lot of money! Greed is good!
Can you name any fully electrified railway system in the world? There are places where electrification is neither practical or cost effective.
Where did I say about "world" electrification of railways? I said we have ONE of the most expensive railways in the World! I didn't say anything about every other railway in the world being electified? You should have gone to specsavers!
Yes I saw. Do you believe that the UK system should be fully electrified? "
As we invented the steam train a great invention which changed the World it's a pity we haven't kept up with the leaders. I do think that we often lag behind - slow to change "we have always done it like that " - but it doesn't mean it's the best! Europe moved to electric many years ago and yes I think the UK should be electric if only from an environmental prospective. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Taken from a Guardian article dated 1st April 2017...
Germany’s Deutsche Bahn owns Arriva, which operates Chiltern, Cross Country, Wales & Borders, London Overground and Grand Central.
Italy’s Trenitalia now runs Essex Thameside.
French state firm SNCF owns Keolis, which runs numerous franchises in joint ventures. As part of Govia, with Go-Ahead, it operates Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern, Southeastern and London Midland; with Amey it runs the Docklands Light Railway.
Dutch state rail owns Abellio, which runs ScotRail and Greater Anglia, and Merseyrail.
China Hong Kong state owns MTR, which holds the South West Trains franchise with First. MTR will also run Crossrail. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"This country needs a radical overhaul of its political system before anyone starts talking about Nationalisation of anything. Look how the NHS is treated as Govt's come and go - it is not right that any nationalized industry/entity gets starved/flooded with money according to the motivations of the incumbent Govt.
Yes to nationalization (and a reformed NHS) as long as the planning, funding, and execution of the businesses are ringfenced from the sitting Govt.
How is this nationalisation? Nationalisation goes alongside democratic accountability and that we as a population get to say how it is run and funded, through the ballot box."
Because the State run enterprise and its funding needs to be ring fenced from the whims of any incumbent Chancellor who for example if were “red” might favour rail provisions in the north of England whereas a “blue” one might focus on their voter base in the SE.
All Nationalised industries suffer when they are operated at the behest of a sitting Govt and it makes it that much easier for a sitting Chancellor to cut budgets or indeed over budget according to political whims.
The NHS is a perfect example of acstate industry that suffers because of day to day political interference. Running the industry for the the goidbof the country is not the same as, for example the Tory Party running it and making budget decisions based on likely voter outcomes (and the same the other way). |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
The concept of rail privatisation is sound in principle but too brittle in practice.
Genuine question. Have people seen an improvement on their local services since privatisation? The services around here are much better BUT better services have led to increased take up, which in turn has led to over-crowding problems at certain times. |
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By *ustJ0dieTV/TS
over a year ago
Burton on Trent |
"Virgin Trains has returned 30% per year more to taxpayers during its time running the route than did DOR, making it a much better-value option for taxpayers.Virgin Trains has invested more in the two years in which it has operated the route than DOR did in its five-and-a-half years running it. ????
"
Yes. But the reason it handed the route back was it could not pay the government the money it owed on the franchise AND service it's investors to the level expected. Because they put in an unrealistic bid. |
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"Virgin Trains has returned 30% per year more to taxpayers during its time running the route than did DOR, making it a much better-value option for taxpayers.Virgin Trains has invested more in the two years in which it has operated the route than DOR did in its five-and-a-half years running it. ????
Yes. But the reason it handed the route back was it could not pay the government the money it owed on the franchise AND service it's investors to the level expected. Because they put in an unrealistic bid. "
But so what? In the 3.5 that they ran it, they have invested in refurbishments, have dealt with the order for the new trains, recruited drivers and started training, testing of the trains, they have run more services, and they have returned more money to the Government.
The only people who have lost out are Virgin and Stagecoach.
So if we find some new suckers to do the same thing every few years - great. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Virgin Trains has returned 30% per year more to taxpayers during its time running the route than did DOR, making it a much better-value option for taxpayers.Virgin Trains has invested more in the two years in which it has operated the route than DOR did in its five-and-a-half years running it. ????
Yes. But the reason it handed the route back was it could not pay the government the money it owed on the franchise AND service it's investors to the level expected. Because they put in an unrealistic bid.
But so what? In the 3.5 that they ran it, they have invested in refurbishments, have dealt with the order for the new trains, recruited drivers and started training, testing of the trains, they have run more services, and they have returned more money to the Government.
The only people who have lost out are Virgin and Stagecoach.
So if we find some new suckers to do the same thing every few years - great."
Has it not failed because "they" bid too much for it? This is a case of private enterprise getting it wrong and their error is now being bailed out by the taxpayer. Just like we did with RBS we should have let it fail! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Virgin Trains has returned 30% per year more to taxpayers during its time running the route than did DOR, making it a much better-value option for taxpayers.Virgin Trains has invested more in the two years in which it has operated the route than DOR did in its five-and-a-half years running it. ????
Yes. But the reason it handed the route back was it could not pay the government the money it owed on the franchise AND service it's investors to the level expected. Because they put in an unrealistic bid.
But so what? In the 3.5 that they ran it, they have invested in refurbishments, have dealt with the order for the new trains, recruited drivers and started training, testing of the trains, they have run more services, and they have returned more money to the Government.
The only people who have lost out are Virgin and Stagecoach.
So if we find some new suckers to do the same thing every few years - great."
Disagree on the last point if this keeps happening eventually nobody will want to run the line - then it'll fall to the state.
Really a more sustainable plan needs to be formulated.
I'd actaully say that given that when the state ran it as an interim they were profiting, I dont know why this line shouldnt be used to test the viability of a national rail line.
So long as the profit is reinvested in the line or to improve the national rail infastructure |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
The issue with Virgin is everybody loves to hate Branson. Whether is was his bid for Camelot or his space programme, everyone loves to see him fail. He's taken a creaking train system and we've all benefited without knowing the costs involved. His counterpart in the US, Musk, who has yet to turn a profit is celebrated as a genius, but is swallowing mountains of investor cash.
If the Department of Transport think HS2 solves modern Britain's infrastructure problems, then I seriously doubt they are equipped to run it. |
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It's not really Branson though, It's 90% Stagecoach and 10% Virgin.
And if you think that HS2 is not needed, try looking at the capacity on the existing main lines and then tell me that you still believe it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They are not bailing it out at all. "
If you sign a contract it stipulates the terms. By terminating the contract before the agreed date should result in a penalty being paid. Simple law. Therefore are they paying a penalty? Who is going to pay for the service to continue? |
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"They are not bailing it out at all.
If you sign a contract it stipulates the terms. By terminating the contract before the agreed date should result in a penalty being paid. Simple law. Therefore are they paying a penalty? Who is going to pay for the service to continue? "
They are not paying a penalty, because the Government has taken it back.
No one is going to pay for the service to continue. The service is self-funding. VTEC paid £1 billion to the Government over 3.5 years and it cost them £200 millon to do that. Therefore when the Government run it again, they won't have to pay themselves £1 billion over 3.5 years and will make £800 million. |
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"I think a service that's vital to the country like this would be better in state ownership. This privatization has created an over-complex system that is also too expensive.
As the government is responsible for reducing greenhouse gases, it's also a key way for it to do this, through having end to end control.
How can the government do anything about any of that?
And the greenhouse gases point is laughable! Take the ECML - the trains are being built and tested under VTEC at the moment and enter service in October!
So the government are taking over in June, how can they reduce greenhouse gases? Bin the new trains and order some different ones?!"
The UK government is responsible for managing reductions in emissions, on 5 year budgetary timescales. Their strategy and management of that is their responsibility. Global warming contingency measures are part of long term planning. If you want to discuss global warming, plans etc, you could open a new thread.
Overall, if governments have total responsibility for their transport infrastructure and services, they have potential to do more 'joined-up thinking', (as much as I dislike that term), helping to ensure that their actions meet their long term goals. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"It's not really Branson though, It's 90% Stagecoach and 10% Virgin.
And if you think that HS2 is not needed, try looking at the capacity on the existing main lines and then tell me that you still believe it."
If they are handing the keys back to East coast and Southern I doubt North South will be that far behind if HS2 is so badly needed.
My point wasn't about if HS2 was needed. It was more what was the point of HS2. There are Hyperloops being created, Japan has had a bullet train for near 10yrs. The TGV in France tops 300mph and we are looking at HS2 cutting Manchester to London by 10 or 15minutes.
Branson will take the greedy guy fall for this when people see how much the Govt have bought him out of contract for when trains and journey times were stuck in the 1950's. |
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Actually, HS2 will save 1 hour on the London Manchester journey, once completed.
And whilst the TGV reached 300 mph on a test run, it doesn't in everyday service. It runs at 200 mph, and HS2 will run at 250 mph, day to day. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"Actually, HS2 will save 1 hour on the London Manchester journey, once completed.
And whilst the TGV reached 300 mph on a test run, it doesn't in everyday service. It runs at 200 mph, and HS2 will run at 250 mph, day to day."
If you think some Blighty train is going to get to Euston in an hour, I'll eat eels in liquor for the rest of my life. |
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"Actually, HS2 will save 1 hour on the London Manchester journey, once completed.
And whilst the TGV reached 300 mph on a test run, it doesn't in everyday service. It runs at 200 mph, and HS2 will run at 250 mph, day to day.
If you think some Blighty train is going to get to Euston in an hour, I'll eat eels in liquor for the rest of my life. "
Prepare those eels then. |
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Having started work on the railway during the days of BR Regional Railways and ended recently under the Dutch state operator Nedrail (overseas arm now called Abellio I believe) I don't think I've seen so much crap spouted in defence of retaining a privatised railway in my life. Let me just clear something up for everybody. The current set of spivs and shysters who purportedly run a public transport system on behalf of the taxpayer (get ready for this) own..... Fuck all!!! They don't own the trains, they don't own the stations, they don't even own the offices that they operate out of. The only thing that all 25 train operators own are the staff. Everything else and i mean everything else is leased. Even down to office furniture. And as for Virgin East Coast making more money for the treasury than when it was Nationalised albeit temporary I'd love to have a bang of them drugs you were smoking/ sniffing at the time. |
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All businesses lease assets. What is surprising about that?
And East Coast, when it was run by the Government returned £1 billion to the Government in nearly 5.5 years, and they spent nothing on refurbishing the rolling stock or the stations.
VTEC has paid £1 billion to the Government in 3.5 years, has refurbished the trains and stations, has provided more services, and has dealt with the new trains - recruitment, training, testing, branding etc.
So don't you dare suggest that I am taking drugs, when I report the facts, because you know nothing.
You are clearly just a low grade, militant railway worker, who is trying to hold this country to ransom, like your outdated, communist union colleagues.
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Ownership is one of the problems of franchising.
The Goverment, through Network Rail, own the track, the stations and the infrastructure. Rolling stock is owned by leasing groups, although this has started to change. Stock on the East Coast is leased from Eversholt, which in turn is owned by a Hong Kong based company.
All the incumbent franchisee can really do, is to hire the staff, put up their own branding, and run the service. They pay Network Rail, they pay the leasing company, they pay the Treasury and then hopefully make a profit.
It's all too short term, and it's very fragmented. It's part nationalised and it's part privatised. It can work but the model has some obvious fracture points.
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"All businesses lease assets. What is surprising about that?
And East Coast, when it was run by the Government returned £1 billion to the Government in nearly 5.5 years, and they spent nothing on refurbishing the rolling stock or the stations.
VTEC has paid £1 billion to the Government in 3.5 years, has refurbished the trains and stations, has provided more services, and has dealt with the new trains - recruitment, training, testing, branding etc.
So don't you dare suggest that I am taking drugs, when I report the facts, because you know nothing.
You are clearly just a low grade, militant railway worker, who is trying to hold this country to ransom, like your outdated, communist union colleagues.
"
There you go again spouting your outdated right wing claptrap. The people who hold this country to ransom are the private profiteers who rip the public off whenever they can and by as much as they can. What else would you privatise? Police, Army, Navy, Fire brigade. Imagine the chaos if those services were in the private sector and run for profit by greedy right wing business people who don't care about people. It would be a nightmare. |
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"All businesses lease assets. What is surprising about that?
And East Coast, when it was run by the Government returned £1 billion to the Government in nearly 5.5 years, and they spent nothing on refurbishing the rolling stock or the stations.
VTEC has paid £1 billion to the Government in 3.5 years, has refurbished the trains and stations, has provided more services, and has dealt with the new trains - recruitment, training, testing, branding etc.
So don't you dare suggest that I am taking drugs, when I report the facts, because you know nothing.
You are clearly just a low grade, militant railway worker, who is trying to hold this country to ransom, like your outdated, communist union colleagues.
"
You say you report "facts"!! Well the only "fact" you reported correctly in the above diatribe was the fact that I am a member of a trade union. Virgin Trains don't give money away to the government willy nilly when they operate a franchise. They pay money to the Department of Transport to run that franchise based on "projected" future revenue and future expenditure ie the cost of leasing new trains (not one of the 25 train operators actually own a train by the way. Trains are built and owned by any one of 4 train leasing companies or Roscos). The gap between projected and actual is actually reduced from the subsidy that Virgin have to pay to run the franchise. Which when state run actually returns a profit for the taxpayer and not a reduced operating cost to a private company. And why on earth would Virgin pay to have stations refurbished when they don't own them. I think you must be getting confused with Network Rail who actually own the stations and is fully state owned. So in effect it is the taxpayer who is paying for station refurbishment. So stop believing everything you read in the Sun or Daily Mail or watch on the BBC, stop defending the indefensible and stop taking the drugs. Change is coming. Nationalisation is coming and it's high time these speculative sharks who preside over this shambles of a rail system were shown the door.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the irrefutable fact is, despite the drug fueled horse shit made up statistics being shovelled up by the gammon, rail privatisation has been a complete and total cataclysm |
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"the irrefutable fact is, despite the drug fueled horse shit made up statistics being shovelled up by the gammon, rail privatisation has been a complete and total cataclysm "
Except that it hasn't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the irrefutable fact is, despite the drug fueled horse shit made up statistics being shovelled up by the gammon, rail privatisation has been a complete and total cataclysm
Except that it hasn't."
not for you on planet horse maybe ... but in the real world rail privatisation along with all the brextremist gammon lunatic rightwingers has held this country back ... time they were terminated for good |
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"the irrefutable fact is, despite the drug fueled horse shit made up statistics being shovelled up by the gammon, rail privatisation has been a complete and total cataclysm
Except that it hasn't.
not for you on planet horse maybe ... but in the real world rail privatisation along with all the brextremist gammon lunatic rightwingers has held this country back ... time they were terminated for good "
Actually they have driven the country forward from the 1970s inefficient, strike prone nationalised industries, the appalling British Rail, stagflation, high interest rates, bankruptcy.
Look at what happened under the last Labour Government.
The "sorry but there is no money" letter.
And when Labour were in power under Brown and Blair, did they re-nationalise anything?
The fact that they did not, and did not promise to do so, but were elected, and the fact that the current communists in charge of the labour party did so, and lost tells you everything that you need to know.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the irrefutable fact is, despite the drug fueled horse shit made up statistics being shovelled up by the gammon, rail privatisation has been a complete and total cataclysm
Except that it hasn't.
not for you on planet horse maybe ... but in the real world rail privatisation along with all the brextremist gammon lunatic rightwingers has held this country back ... time they were terminated for good
Actually they have driven the country forward from the 1970s inefficient, strike prone nationalised industries, the appalling British Rail, stagflation, high interest rates, bankruptcy.
Look at what happened under the last Labour Government.
The "sorry but there is no money" letter.
And when Labour were in power under Brown and Blair, did they re-nationalise anything?
The fact that they did not, and did not promise to do so, but were elected, and the fact that the current communists in charge of the labour party did so, and lost tells you everything that you need to know.
"
that straw man you built doesn't alter the solid fact that the rightwing fucknugget gammon who privatised rail completely fucked the country up .... time they were all rounded up and made to disappear so decent people can get on |
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"the irrefutable fact is, despite the drug fueled horse shit made up statistics being shovelled up by the gammon, rail privatisation has been a complete and total cataclysm
Except that it hasn't.
not for you on planet horse maybe ... but in the real world rail privatisation along with all the brextremist gammon lunatic rightwingers has held this country back ... time they were terminated for good
Actually they have driven the country forward from the 1970s inefficient, strike prone nationalised industries, the appalling British Rail, stagflation, high interest rates, bankruptcy.
Look at what happened under the last Labour Government.
The "sorry but there is no money" letter.
And when Labour were in power under Brown and Blair, did they re-nationalise anything?
The fact that they did not, and did not promise to do so, but were elected, and the fact that the current communists in charge of the labour party did so, and lost tells you everything that you need to know.
that straw man you built doesn't alter the solid fact that the rightwing fucknugget gammon who privatised rail completely fucked the country up .... time they were all rounded up and made to disappear so decent people can get on "
How is it "fucked up". Better trains, more trains. Better services. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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more strike days in the last 5 years than in the whole of the 70's .... record number of rolling stock on the network aged over 25 years .... record cancellations .... record delays .... reduced numbers of coaches .... cancelled services ..... record ticket prices .... unsafe stations .... dangerous automated level crossings..... record accidents .... etc etc etc .... the little privatised rail experiment of the tory's and their snivelling shits has been catastrophic at every level causing it to be the worst service ever recorded since the inception of rail travel ... and that is a rock solid fact |
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"more strike days in the last 5 years than in the whole of the 70's .... record number of rolling stock on the network aged over 25 years .... record cancellations .... record delays .... reduced numbers of coaches .... cancelled services ..... record ticket prices .... unsafe stations .... dangerous automated level crossings..... record accidents .... etc etc etc .... the little privatised rail experiment of the tory's and their snivelling shits has been catastrophic at every level causing it to be the worst service ever recorded since the inception of rail travel ... and that is a rock solid fact "
And what are the strikes about? Luddite Communists arguing about who presses a door button.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"more strike days in the last 5 years than in the whole of the 70's .... record number of rolling stock on the network aged over 25 years .... record cancellations .... record delays .... reduced numbers of coaches .... cancelled services ..... record ticket prices .... unsafe stations .... dangerous automated level crossings..... record accidents .... etc etc etc .... the little privatised rail experiment of the tory's and their snivelling shits has been catastrophic at every level causing it to be the worst service ever recorded since the inception of rail travel ... and that is a rock solid fact
And what are the strikes about? Luddite Communists arguing about who presses a door button.
"
record number of strike days under the gammon tory's brextremist cock wombles watch ... fact! |
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"more strike days in the last 5 years than in the whole of the 70's .... record number of rolling stock on the network aged over 25 years .... record cancellations .... record delays .... reduced numbers of coaches .... cancelled services ..... record ticket prices .... unsafe stations .... dangerous automated level crossings..... record accidents .... etc etc etc .... the little privatised rail experiment of the tory's and their snivelling shits has been catastrophic at every level causing it to be the worst service ever recorded since the inception of rail travel ... and that is a rock solid fact
And what are the strikes about? Luddite Communists arguing about who presses a door button.
record number of strike days under the gammon tory's brextremist cock wombles watch ... fact!"
what is the stupid insult phrase of yours all about? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"more strike days in the last 5 years than in the whole of the 70's .... record number of rolling stock on the network aged over 25 years .... record cancellations .... record delays .... reduced numbers of coaches .... cancelled services ..... record ticket prices .... unsafe stations .... dangerous automated level crossings..... record accidents .... etc etc etc .... the little privatised rail experiment of the tory's and their snivelling shits has been catastrophic at every level causing it to be the worst service ever recorded since the inception of rail travel ... and that is a rock solid fact
And what are the strikes about? Luddite Communists arguing about who presses a door button.
record number of strike days under the gammon tory's brextremist cock wombles watch ... fact!"
 |
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"it's not an insult ... it's a fact that rightwingers are stupid 
Funny how the world's successful countries run on a right-wing capitalist model."
Define 'successful'... because if you mean countries where people live happy and fulfilling lives then its consistently found to be Scandinavian countries which operate centre-left social democracies.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"it's not an insult ... it's a fact that rightwingers are stupid
Funny how the world's successful countries run on a right-wing capitalist model.
Define 'successful'... because if you mean countries where people live happy and fulfilling lives then its consistently found to be Scandinavian countries which operate centre-left social democracies.
"
the stupid thing is that he means european countries .... but then he has been busy trying to convince people to believe the brextremist gammon horseshit idea that european countries are the opposite of 'successful' ....rightwingers are so stupid they are arguing both sides of the debate and everyone else is laughing at them ... but they're too stupid to understand why |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"it's not an insult ... it's a fact that rightwingers are stupid
Funny how the world's successful countries run on a right-wing capitalist model.
Define 'successful'... because if you mean countries where people live happy and fulfilling lives then its consistently found to be Scandinavian countries which operate centre-left social democracies.
the stupid thing is that he means european countries .... but then he has been busy trying to convince people to believe the brextremist gammon horseshit idea that european countries are the opposite of 'successful' ....rightwingers are so stupid they are arguing both sides of the debate and everyone else is laughing at them ... but they're too stupid to understand why "
When arguing about capitalism fails as Levis give you no props in doGtoWn UK. The struggle must be real hard warding through the gutter swamp of life's unequal choices. Raises poorly fist.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
When arguing about capitalism fails as Levis give you no props in doGtoWn UK. The struggle must be real hard warding through the gutter swamp of life's unequal choices. Raises poorly fist.
"
try that again ... in a legible language this time |
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"more strike days in the last 5 years than in the whole of the 70's .... record number of rolling stock on the network aged over 25 years .... record cancellations .... record delays .... reduced numbers of coaches .... cancelled services ..... record ticket prices .... unsafe stations .... dangerous automated level crossings..... record accidents .... etc etc etc .... the little privatised rail experiment of the tory's and their snivelling shits has been catastrophic at every level causing it to be the worst service ever recorded since the inception of rail travel ... and that is a rock solid fact "
Couldn’t of put it any better myself.
And WHEN Corbyn is elected on the best manifesto produced by the Labour Party since 1945 I’ll be offering to drive any right wingers to the airport free of charge where you can catch a flight to America (if they’ll let you in) and be welcomed with open arms. Because you won’t want to be using any energy provided by a state run entity or using decent public transport provided by a state run entity or even have your post delivered by a state run entity for most probably half the price than what your paying now would you.
Oh and as a point of order there were a few organisations Re-Nationalised under Labour The Bank of England being one of them closely followed by Railtrack where if my memory serves me correctly Gordon Brown told the shareholders to fucking do one when they tried to claim compensation for their losses when it was taken back under public ownership. Gordon Brown himself Nationalised Northern Rock, Lloyds Banking Group and the Royal Bank of Scotland all of which the British taxpayer is still the majority shareholder but only just as the Tories want to flog our bit off for whatever their chums in the City will give them for it. |
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