FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > US Embassy in Jerusalem
US Embassy in Jerusalem
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths." To be fair, they died as a direct result of killers. Trump just gave them their twisted idea of jusification. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. To be fair, they died as a direct result of killers. Trump just gave them their twisted idea of jusification." Trump caused this, nobody in their right mind would have moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem... | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. To be fair, they died as a direct result of killers. Trump just gave them their twisted idea of jusification. Trump caused this, nobody in their right mind would have moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem..." He doesn't care it's as simple as that!  | |||
| |||
"Trump won't care one iota. He is a white supremacist and Israel's newest best friend. " Agreed, but he still annoys the fuck out of me! This was so unnecessary & viscious | |||
 The Isrealis are just being used, partly to appease the Jewish US population and also for other US gains. Farage's friend Trump is a narcissist who cares only for himself. He probably thinks he's achieved something wonderful by moving the building there, highlighting how special he is. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths." Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? " Yes. What's your point? | |||
| |||
| |||
"So when is a massacre not a massacre?" Perpetrated by USA or allies = not a massacre | |||
| |||
"Israel doesn't want a one state solution, because it would mean giving millions in Gaza and the west bank a vote which would completely change the political landscape in Israel. Israel doesn't want a two state solution because that would mean a loss of land and a Palestinian state on its border funded to the tune of billions by its very wealthy enemies. Israel wants what it has now.Which is control.This recent act of barbarism is an attempt to start another Intifada.Which Israel needs to justify its actions for the coming decades." Not sure I entirely agree with your analysis. Netanyahu is going to be indicted in Israel and this gives him a level of ‘distraction’, which Trump likes the style of. Having spent time in Israel in the last intefada, the vast majority of Israeli’s I met did not want any of the violence. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? " Are you just blaming Blair? What about cabinet responsibility? Aren't they all responsible? How about a favourite of yours, parliamentary sovereignty, parliament voted for it. Should they be held responsible? How about the Generals and officers who lead the troops are they responsible? How about your average soldier, sailor, marine and airman who served on the ground? Do you blame them? What have the other civil servants, from DfID and FCO etc. That were part of our actions in Iraq? Are they to blame? How about all of the contractors from oil men to drivers to security contractors? Are they responsible? | |||
"Israel doesn't want a one state solution, because it would mean giving millions in Gaza and the west bank a vote which would completely change the political landscape in Israel. Israel doesn't want a two state solution because that would mean a loss of land and a Palestinian state on its border funded to the tune of billions by its very wealthy enemies. Israel wants what it has now.Which is control.This recent act of barbarism is an attempt to start another Intifada.Which Israel needs to justify its actions for the coming decades. Not sure I entirely agree with your analysis. Netanyahu is going to be indicted in Israel and this gives him a level of ‘distraction’, which Trump likes the style of. Having spent time in Israel in the last intefada, the vast majority of Israeli’s I met did not want any of the violence." I to have lived and worked in Israel and i would agree most Israelis want peace.Most British people want peace .We still went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? " If they should be then so should all the tories who supported Blair in that fuk up of a decision.. Maybe Cameron too for his I have big bollocks fuck up in Libya.. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? Yes. What's your point?" He doesn't have a point, he's just a Trump fanboy who wants to change the subject from his orange daddy's many many fuck ups. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? " So, if you were to apply  intelligence to this thread's topic, based on your above comment, what is it? | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths." yeah and you shoukd be taken into the woods and left for the wolves the state of isreal is great #fuck palestine | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. yeah and you shoukd be taken into the woods and left for the wolves the state of isreal is great #fuck palestine " What's so great about it? | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. yeah and you shoukd be taken into the woods and left for the wolves the state of isreal is great #fuck palestine basically it all boils down to the fact that they are the 3rd largest airforce in the world every man woman and child is in their army and they protect a canal built by the frnch stolen by the brits I mean what is there not to love the self replicating race thing the only religion in the world that because the only way to become a jew is for your mother to be a jew thats why you can say I hate muslims or christians but not them because they managed to steal a 60 mile strip of land back in the 60s obliterated 4 countries in 6 days have a dont ask dont twll nuclear policy and if you syill dont love it yet they are the only group of people I have ever heard of or met that if you start a discussion with a group basically if everyone is in complete agreement it is the last mans duty to dedicate his life to try and disprove or prove it if our country used a little more logic we would probably have less fat retards and cuckolds kicking about What's so great about it? " | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. yeah and you shoukd be taken into the woods and left for the wolves the state of isreal is great #fuck palestine basically it all boils down to the fact that they are the 3rd largest airforce in the world every man woman and child is in their army and they protect a canal built by the frnch stolen by the brits I mean what is there not to love the self replicating race thing the only religion in the world that because the only way to become a jew is for your mother to be a jew thats why you can say I hate muslims or christians but not them because they managed to steal a 60 mile strip of land back in the 60s obliterated 4 countries in 6 days have a dont ask dont twll nuclear policy and if you syill dont love it yet they are the only group of people I have ever heard of or met that if you start a discussion with a group basically if everyone is in complete agreement it is the last mans duty to dedicate his life to try and disprove or prove it if our country used a little more logic we would probably have less fat retards and cuckolds kicking about What's so great about it? " Start your own anti-semitic thread, this is an objection to Trump  | |||
| |||
"Yes it is because you clearly cant read what is anti se" Again, start your own thread and stop hijacking this one... | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. yeah and you shoukd be taken into the woods and left for the wolves the state of isreal is great #fuck palestine What's so great about it? " I think he meant "great" in the context of scale | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? Yes. What's your point?" The point is people (particularly liberal lefties) are getting their knickers in a twist over this (and anything to do with Trump really), but those same people for the most part are indifferent to the million plus dead in Iraq at the hands of Blair and Bush. It's the double standards and lack of consistency that I'm pointing out. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. Over a million deaths on the hands of Bush and Blair in Iraq and yet they got off Scott free. Should they be held to account for those deaths on the back of dodgy sexed up intelligence? If they should be then so should all the tories who supported Blair in that fuk up of a decision.. Maybe Cameron too for his I have big bollocks fuck up in Libya.. " Cameron/Clegg remember it was a Tory/Lib dem coalition that took us to war in Libya. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. yeah and you shoukd be taken into the woods and left for the wolves the state of isreal is great #fuck palestine What's so great about it? " Its one of the greatest events of our time, the remnants of the House of Israel returning back to their rightfull land after 2000 years of wandering the earth... A nation born in a day with the most powerfull gentile nations of the earth protecting them and assisting them to build up the land that is rightfully theirs... | |||
| |||
| |||
"Unfortunately people lose lives while he goes and plays golf or meets some people who like him. " I very much doubt anyone (including his wife and children) like him. To some he is a meal ticket, to others he is a convenient and disposable tool. For those who think I am wrong, there is a reason he plays so much golf on his own golf clubs. He would be asked to leave any club he did not own, and because he owns the clubs he plays in he can force the guests to hold their noses and accept his company. | |||
"You can not be serious " The land of palestine rightfully belongs to the House of Israel, Jerusalem has always been their capital city and centre of worship and for two thousand years of exile from their land every devout Jew daily begged in prayer for the return to and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem... | |||
"You can not be serious The land of palestine rightfully belongs to the House of Israel, Jerusalem has always been their capital city and centre of worship and for two thousand years of exile from their land every devout Jew daily begged in prayer for the return to and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem... " The murderous apartheid state, gunning down children, murdering peaceful unarmed protesters. From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free! | |||
| |||
"You can not be serious The land of palestine rightfully belongs to the House of Israel, Jerusalem has always been their capital city and centre of worship and for two thousand years of exile from their land every devout Jew daily begged in prayer for the return to and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem... The murderous apartheid state, gunning down children, murdering peaceful unarmed protesters. From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!" I visited the river Jordan, with a good run up you could leap across it.It should be from the stream to the sea. | |||
"You can not be serious The land of palestine rightfully belongs to the House of Israel, Jerusalem has always been their capital city and centre of worship and for two thousand years of exile from their land every devout Jew daily begged in prayer for the return to and restoration of Israel and Jerusalem... " Early settlement was around 3500bc. King David invaded 1000bc. | |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths." This will annoy a lot of people but who cares, free speech. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, I'm shocked it has taken this long to move the embassy. Russia has already done it but no one kicked off a fuss. UK should follow the US lead and move ours to Jerusalem, Israel is our friend. Palestinian is run by Hamas a terrorist organisation. Yes some civilians died, that can't be 100% stopped. Remember they are attacking Israel and their people. Grow some balls and back our friends from terrorists. If you support Palestine you support Hamas, which means you support terrorism. | |||
| |||
"Here is a hugely painful example of Trumps stupidity. At least 41 people killed and hundreds wounded as a direct result of his stupid decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Those deaths are on his hands, leaving the Embassy where it was would have been fine. The man is mad and should be prosecuted for these deaths. This will annoy a lot of people but who cares, free speech. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, I'm shocked it has taken this long to move the embassy. Russia has already done it but no one kicked off a fuss. UK should follow the US lead and move ours to Jerusalem, Israel is our friend. Palestinian is run by Hamas a terrorist organisation. Yes some civilians died, that can't be 100% stopped. Remember they are attacking Israel and their people. Grow some balls and back our friends from terrorists. If you support Palestine you support Hamas, which means you support terrorism." It's not an easy fix. Before the 7 day war between Israel and the Arab world Jerusalem was not in part of Israel. The U.N. passed a resolution stating the land is illegally occupied! So who is right and who is wrong? | |||
| |||
"Jerusalem will always be a stumbling block.The solution has been there from the very beginning of the state of Israel in 1947.The solution is an open city under UN rule.It was put forward during separation talks in 47 .The term corpus seperatum Jerusalem (separate body) will solve most of the issues.The opportunity to do this was missed.Until it's done war will never cease in the region.The state of Israel decided it was better to divide the city up into Arab and jewish zones in 49 rather than have a united Jerusalem,the rest is history.." Agree with you there bob. The isrealis illegally took over the whole city and should pull back as per the un ruling. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"The remnants of the House of Israel have a higher Law on their side, we have seen the Author of that higher Law, gather in the remnants of the House of Israel from the four corners of the earth, they defeated every nation that attacked them in a matter of days and as stated they have the protection of the most powerfull Gentile nations on earth... Whom can gainsay Israel..." Gentile? The usa has a large Jewish population hasn't it? | |||
"God gave the children of Israel back the city of Jerusalem and there is nothing the UN can do about it. ... Little Israel is protected as the old prophets foretold by the most powerfull Christian gentile nations on earth whom like the Remnants of the house of Israel believe in the Biblical promises and prophecies concerning Israel... " Trump the devil incarnate shall deceive a great multitude. .They will believe it's sign that the temple mount will be restored and the Messiah shall return laying it's cornerstone.So sayeth Bob the banger for he has seen the wickedness in the hearts of the Americans.Chapter 20 verse two in the book of bob | |||
| |||
"Scoff and mock all you will, theres nothing you can do to prevent the restoration of the Jews to their forefathers land and the city of Jerusalem..." ) 1 Samuel 28:7 “Then Saul told his officers, ‘Find me a woman who can talk to the spirits of the dead. I’ll go to her and find out what’s going to happen.’” I scoffed at that..Are you such a women   | |||
"The remnants of the House of Israel have a higher Law on their side, we have seen the Author of that higher Law, gather in the remnants of the House of Israel from the four corners of the earth, they defeated every nation that attacked them in a matter of days and as stated they have the protection of the most powerfull Gentile nations on earth... Whom can gainsay Israel..." Last time I looked this forum was headed "politics". The one for "religion" is over there | |||
| |||
"Scoff and mock all you will, theres nothing you can do to prevent the restoration of the Jews to their forefathers land and the city of Jerusalem..." What happens to the pallisitinians? Leave em to die in that prison camp Gaza? Shoot, starve in that sweatbox? | |||
"Scoff and mock all you will, theres nothing you can do to prevent the restoration of the Jews to their forefathers land and the city of Jerusalem... What happens to the pallisitinians? Leave em to die in that prison camp Gaza? Shoot, starve in that sweatbox? " That's the problem - there are too many extremists who don't care or who would prefer that they didn't exist, whilst only wanting to view things from the perspective of one side. Radicalisation and extremism can exist in more areas than some would prophecy about. Thankfully international controls and standards of decency exist, albeit they haven't been suitably imposed upon rogue state actors. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"A typical marxist falsehood" Have you even read the Bible.Joshua was genocidal maniac and your above post were you show your disdain for your fellow humans let's everyone now what's in your heart.Its hate to everyone but the jews. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. " Any democracy if faced with terrorists throwing petrol bombs, planting bombs, using suicide bombers and constantly seeking to stab, maim and kill its citizens, constantly firing rockets, will use their armed forces or armed police to prevent such | |||
| |||
"Also; I feel the need to state the bloody obvious: Atheists are not all Marxists, we don't have many Marxists in the UK, but we have a lot of atheists. I'd be interested to know where the "100 million killed by Marxists" comes from and also if you have a comparable figure for Christians, Muslims and Jews, to be fair, I'll let that figure be from the late Roman empire onwards.. " Why nearly 2 millennia more for one group than another? | |||
"Also; I feel the need to state the bloody obvious: Atheists are not all Marxists, we don't have many Marxists in the UK, but we have a lot of atheists. I'd be interested to know where the "100 million killed by Marxists" comes from and also if you have a comparable figure for Christians, Muslims and Jews, to be fair, I'll let that figure be from the late Roman empire onwards.. Why nearly 2 millennia more for one group than another? " Fine - have since 1848 if you like. I'd still wager that the religious have butchered an order of magnitude more people than any so called Marxists. Any comments on the "hundred million" supposedly killed by Marxists? | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. " If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid." So you, me and all the Anglo Saxons can be slaughtered by the Bretons (Welsh) because they were here first? Fuck off you twat. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid." And don't get me started about Ashkenarzi Jews. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid." That's one of the poorest attempts to justify genocide I've ever seen. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid. So you, me and all the Anglo Saxons can be slaughtered by the Bretons (Welsh) because they were here first? Fuck off you twat." "Fuck off you twat" - is that directed at me? | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid. That's one of the poorest attempts to justify genocide I've ever seen. "I'm not justifying anything, just telling a truth which is something you seem to have a problem with. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid. So you, me and all the Anglo Saxons can be slaughtered by the Bretons (Welsh) because they were here first? Fuck off you twat." Oh, and I wasn't born here, I'm mixed race and none of them is Anglo Saxon or British, so well done for the racism  | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. If you mean the people currently referred to as "Native Americans", there is increasing archaeological evidence to show that they aren't indigenous to the area, but emigrated there from Asia approx.15000 years plus ago. There is also evidence to show that there was an older culture already living in North America for over a thousand years, the fossil records of whom disappear shortly after the arrival of the "Native Americans" meaning that they were killed by the interlopers. This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. History, and our understanding of it, changes frequently, and outdated knowledge like your model of the Native Americans rounding up the settlers etc is no longer valid. So you, me and all the Anglo Saxons can be slaughtered by the Bretons (Welsh) because they were here first? Fuck off you twat. Oh, and I wasn't born here, I'm mixed race and none of them is Anglo Saxon or British, so well done for the racism "and you choose to say your from bongo land.... I'm curious why you choose that name ? | |||
"As usual the Marxists twist things round to suit their vile agendas...I have only spoken of the Jews right to Israel and Jerusalem and do not condone any cruelty or violence towards any living soul... Regards the Marxists within a few decades they had murdered around a hundred million people, many of which were Christians and Jews.. " The ones with the vile agendas are the Israelis and it is right wing religious nut jobs such as yourself who twist everything to suit your small minded agendas. Israel has no right to exist in its current borders and is guilty of genocide against innocent human beings. It is no more than a terrorist state. | |||
"Also; I feel the need to state the bloody obvious: Atheists are not all Marxists, we don't have many Marxists in the UK, but we have a lot of atheists. I'd be interested to know where the "100 million killed by Marxists" comes from and also if you have a comparable figure for Christians, Muslims and Jews, to be fair, I'll let that figure be from the late Roman empire onwards.. Why nearly 2 millennia more for one group than another? Fine - have since 1848 if you like. I'd still wager that the religious have butchered an order of magnitude more people than any so called Marxists. Any comments on the "hundred million" supposedly killed by Marxists?" Nah, wasn't my figure. | |||
"As usual the Marxists twist things round to suit their vile agendas...I have only spoken of the Jews right to Israel and Jerusalem and do not condone any cruelty or violence towards any living soul... Regards the Marxists within a few decades they had murdered around a hundred million people, many of which were Christians and Jews.. The ones with the vile agendas are the Israelis and it is right wing religious nut jobs such as yourself who twist everything to suit your small minded agendas. Israel has no right to exist in its current borders and is guilty of genocide against innocent human beings. It is no more than a terrorist state." Which borders does Israel belong to stay within then? | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. Any democracy if faced with terrorists throwing petrol bombs, planting bombs, using suicide bombers and constantly seeking to stab, maim and kill its citizens, constantly firing rockets, will use their armed forces or armed police to prevent such" I thought one of the commandments was "love thy neighbour". Not much love happening between neighbours down there, is there? | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Hamas leader has now said the deaths were worthwhile as they achieved the goal of causing international condemnation of Israel, and may force Israel to make the border more open. The violent demonstrations were a deliberate attempt to force a response by Israel who as usual acted with great care to minimise loss of life while ensuring its border was not breached by the terrorist mob. Hamas doesnt care about individual Palestinian lives, but it knows the rest of the world does, and of course the it also knows that the UN will act as its chief spokesman. Israel does want peace and a two state solution, but knows this will never be possible with Islamo-nazis Hamas in control, and the poisonous "education" Hamas provides in its schools ensures that the next generation will be equally indoctrinated. BTW, Gaza is not under occupation, Israel withdrew many years ago, and if they had a reasonable leadership which valued life and people rather than obsessed with hatred for Jews and Israel (entrenched in Hamas charter) they would by now be thriving with good relations with Israel, and it would have served as a template for a more general settlement. But Hamas wants it all, and as long as Israelis remain strong and determined to protect what they have built, they will not get it, so expect more of the same for the forseeable future. " In any"war" the "generals" who make the decisions are never the war casualties! Given what happened to the Jews they did desevre a home but it was good in theory but different in practice. | |||
"Hamas leader has now said the deaths were worthwhile as they achieved the goal of causing international condemnation of Israel, and may force Israel to make the border more open. The violent demonstrations were a deliberate attempt to force a response by Israel who as usual acted with great care to minimise loss of life while ensuring its border was not breached by the terrorist mob. Hamas doesnt care about individual Palestinian lives, but it knows the rest of the world does, and of course the it also knows that the UN will act as its chief spokesman. Israel does want peace and a two state solution, but knows this will never be possible with Islamo-nazis Hamas in control, and the poisonous "education" Hamas provides in its schools ensures that the next generation will be equally indoctrinated. BTW, Gaza is not under occupation, Israel withdrew many years ago, and if they had a reasonable leadership which valued life and people rather than obsessed with hatred for Jews and Israel (entrenched in Hamas charter) they would by now be thriving with good relations with Israel, and it would have served as a template for a more general settlement. But Hamas wants it all, and as long as Israelis remain strong and determined to protect what they have built, they will not get it, so expect more of the same for the forseeable future. " However; gaza is described as an over crowded prison camp with minimal resources. People pushed out of their homes to make room for the isreaalis, so can understand the pallisitinians anger, you would be too being "mass punished" for hamas's actions. Secondly, the un rightly condemned isreals needles use of lethal force against them. Isreal regularly breaks international law but nothing happens. | |||
" But Hamas wants it all, and as long as Israelis remain strong and determined to protect what they have built, they will not get it, so expect more of the same for the forseeable future." There was a chance in the 90s with 2 more moderate leaders. Yassa arafat and Yitzhak rabin. Only some hard-line fanatical arsehole (in this case an isreali) decided to kill his democratically elected leader rabin, to perpetuate this insanity. What's needed is moderates on both sides! Not this hardline nonsense | |||
| |||
| |||
"Gaza is a cage because Hamas is in power. When Sharon withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, ripping up Israeli settlements in the process, Gazans had a possibility of building a free peaceful prosperous society living in peace with Israel. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, send suicide bombers into Israel and invest in missiles to randomly pepper Israel. " Israeli government uses a calorie count to limit the food the caged humans require daily.They limited food to 2200 calories a per person. The world renowned Jewish academic Noam Chomsky said it best when he said. "When Israel, in the occupied territories now, claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population that they’re crushing." | |||
| |||
"It is ludicrous to say that Gaza is a cage because of Hamas. Gaza has been a cage for much longer than Hamas has been in so called power. Longer than the Hamas charter has been live too. Israel had never been working towards a two state solution, despite international efforts, and has been carrying out a genocide for decades, to eradicate the land of people who have loved there for generation after generation. Is it any wonder the Palestinian people fight, I know I would under a brutal occupation. The two state solution appears dead. Good. Let's stop supporting the brutal apartheid oppressor, stop selling them arms, stop buying their goods, support Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) and bring down the racist state apparatus, and build a democratic state in which all, Arab, Jew or other, have exactly the same rights and opportunities. From the River to the Sea....." Palestinians had the chance of a peace deal, Yasser Arafat rejected it. Israel was ready and willing to sign that peace deal, it was Arafat and the Palestinians who refused. | |||
| |||
"Gaza is a cage because Hamas is in power. When Sharon withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, ripping up Israeli settlements in the process, Gazans had a possibility of building a free peaceful prosperous society living in peace with Israel. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, send suicide bombers into Israel and invest in missiles to randomly pepper Israel. Israeli government uses a calorie count to limit the food the caged humans require daily.They limited food to 2200 calories a per person. The world renowned Jewish academic Noam Chomsky said it best when he said. "When Israel, in the occupied territories now, claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population that they’re crushing."" Yet another false quote, the Chomsky statement on Gaza is an amalgam of two quite disparate texts, only one of them by him, and even that one is not a recent statement. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. " And Germanic tribes that lived in the UK does that mean that England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should remain in the EU and that people with UK passports etc should be issued with notices to leave, like the Windrush generation? | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. And Germanic tribes that lived in the UK does that mean that England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should remain in the EU and that people with UK passports etc should be issued with notices to leave, like the Windrush generation? "Lol, no - that's just being silly | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. And Germanic tribes that lived in the UK does that mean that England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should remain in the EU and that people with UK passports etc should be issued with notices to leave, like the Windrush generation? "How about Australia, Canada, NZ, all those white people are natives, right? | |||
"Gaza is a cage because Hamas is in power. When Sharon withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, ripping up Israeli settlements in the process, Gazans had a possibility of building a free peaceful prosperous society living in peace with Israel. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, send suicide bombers into Israel and invest in missiles to randomly pepper Israel. Israeli government uses a calorie count to limit the food the caged humans require daily.They limited food to 2200 calories a per person. The world renowned Jewish academic Noam Chomsky said it best when he said. "When Israel, in the occupied territories now, claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population that they’re crushing." Yet another false quote, the Chomsky statement on Gaza is an amalgam of two quite disparate texts, only one of them by him, and even that one is not a recent statement. " Actually Chomsky said this and yes the quote was amalgamated into another quote tthis however was said .I've yet to have a response as to why someone of mixed heritage would be from bongo land which is usually a racist slur . | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. Any democracy if faced with terrorists throwing petrol bombs, planting bombs, using suicide bombers and constantly seeking to stab, maim and kill its citizens, constantly firing rockets, will use their armed forces or armed police to prevent such" And the injuries sustained by the Israeli forces who shot at and killed the Palestinians on Monday were what? | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. Any democracy if faced with terrorists throwing petrol bombs, planting bombs, using suicide bombers and constantly seeking to stab, maim and kill its citizens, constantly firing rockets, will use their armed forces or armed police to prevent such And the injuries sustained by the Israeli forces who shot at and killed the Palestinians on Monday were what? " Bee stings and sunburn? | |||
"Gaza is a cage because Hamas is in power. When Sharon withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, ripping up Israeli settlements in the process, Gazans had a possibility of building a free peaceful prosperous society living in peace with Israel. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, send suicide bombers into Israel and invest in missiles to randomly pepper Israel. Israeli government uses a calorie count to limit the food the caged humans require daily.They limited food to 2200 calories a per person. The world renowned Jewish academic Noam Chomsky said it best when he said. "When Israel, in the occupied territories now, claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population that they’re crushing." Yet another false quote, the Chomsky statement on Gaza is an amalgam of two quite disparate texts, only one of them by him, and even that one is not a recent statement. Actually Chomsky said this and yes the quote was amalgamated into another quote tthis however was said .I've yet to have a response as to why someone of mixed heritage would be from bongo land which is usually a racist slur . " You just can't get it right, can you? "Bongo Bongo Land" is the racist slur. I've read some other your other posts in the threads and find it utterly despicable when you use your children as arguing points in threads on what is essentially an adult fuck site. Your lack of respect for your children is what draws me to the conclusion that you don't deserve an answer, or indeed, any kind of respect. | |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. Any democracy if faced with terrorists throwing petrol bombs, planting bombs, using suicide bombers and constantly seeking to stab, maim and kill its citizens, constantly firing rockets, will use their armed forces or armed police to prevent such And the injuries sustained by the Israeli forces who shot at and killed the Palestinians on Monday were what? Bee stings and sunburn?" It's dangerous work sniping civilians in the hot sun. | |||
"Gaza is a cage because Hamas is in power. When Sharon withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, ripping up Israeli settlements in the process, Gazans had a possibility of building a free peaceful prosperous society living in peace with Israel. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, send suicide bombers into Israel and invest in missiles to randomly pepper Israel. Israeli government uses a calorie count to limit the food the caged humans require daily.They limited food to 2200 calories a per person. The world renowned Jewish academic Noam Chomsky said it best when he said. "When Israel, in the occupied territories now, claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population that they’re crushing." Yet another false quote, the Chomsky statement on Gaza is an amalgam of two quite disparate texts, only one of them by him, and even that one is not a recent statement. Actually Chomsky said this and yes the quote was amalgamated into another quote tthis however was said .I've yet to have a response as to why someone of mixed heritage would be from bongo land which is usually a racist slur . You just can't get it right, can you? "Bongo Bongo Land" is the racist slur. I've read some other your other posts in the threads and find it utterly despicable when you use your children as arguing points in threads on what is essentially an adult fuck site. Your lack of respect for your children is what draws me to the conclusion that you don't deserve an answer, or indeed, any kind of respect." The anger that you displayed leads me to believe your a sock puppet son and there is nothing mixed race about you at all as nobody of mixed race heritage would say they are from bongo land.I suspect your just another racist kipper | |||
"Gaza is a cage because Hamas is in power. When Sharon withdrew unilaterally from Gaza, ripping up Israeli settlements in the process, Gazans had a possibility of building a free peaceful prosperous society living in peace with Israel. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, send suicide bombers into Israel and invest in missiles to randomly pepper Israel. Israeli government uses a calorie count to limit the food the caged humans require daily.They limited food to 2200 calories a per person. The world renowned Jewish academic Noam Chomsky said it best when he said. "When Israel, in the occupied territories now, claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population that they’re crushing." Yet another false quote, the Chomsky statement on Gaza is an amalgam of two quite disparate texts, only one of them by him, and even that one is not a recent statement. Actually Chomsky said this and yes the quote was amalgamated into another quote tthis however was said .I've yet to have a response as to why someone of mixed heritage would be from bongo land which is usually a racist slur . You just can't get it right, can you? "Bongo Bongo Land" is the racist slur. I've read some other your other posts in the threads and find it utterly despicable when you use your children as arguing points in threads on what is essentially an adult fuck site. Your lack of respect for your children is what draws me to the conclusion that you don't deserve an answer, or indeed, any kind of respect. The anger that you displayed leads me to believe your a sock puppet son and there is nothing mixed race about you at all as nobody of mixed race heritage would say they are from bongo land.I suspect your just another racist kipper" Nobody cares what you "suspect" | |||
| |||
| |||
"If the Jews are entitled to the land of Palestine because their ancestors once resided there, does the same not apply to the indigenous people of North America? Do they equally have the right to round up all the settlers and concentrate them in open air prison camps, shoot at them when they get a bit uppity? Trump included. Any democracy if faced with terrorists throwing petrol bombs, planting bombs, using suicide bombers and constantly seeking to stab, maim and kill its citizens, constantly firing rockets, will use their armed forces or armed police to prevent such And the injuries sustained by the Israeli forces who shot at and killed the Palestinians on Monday were what? Bee stings and sunburn? It's dangerous work sniping civilians in the hot sun." Hopefully no injuries at all. In a war, when the enemy are at the gates (not 5000 miles away) you dont wait for them to hurt you, you just deal with them as quickly and effectively as you can, until they go away. | |||
| |||
| |||
"As usual the Marxists twist things round to suit their vile agendas...I have only spoken of the Jews right to Israel and Jerusalem and do not condone any cruelty or violence towards any living soul... Regards the Marxists within a few decades they had murdered around a hundred million people, many of which were Christians and Jews.. The ones with the vile agendas are the Israelis and it is right wing religious nut jobs such as yourself who twist everything to suit your small minded agendas. Israel has no right to exist in its current borders and is guilty of genocide against innocent human beings. It is no more than a terrorist state." ..And all because I believe that the land belongs to the Jews and Jerusalem is their capital....Shalom my friend | |||
| |||
"As usual the Marxists twist things round to suit their vile agendas...I have only spoken of the Jews right to Israel and Jerusalem and do not condone any cruelty or violence towards any living soul... Regards the Marxists within a few decades they had murdered around a hundred million people, many of which were Christians and Jews.. The ones with the vile agendas are the Israelis and it is right wing religious nut jobs such as yourself who twist everything to suit your small minded agendas. Israel has no right to exist in its current borders and is guilty of genocide against innocent human beings. It is no more than a terrorist state. ..And all because I believe that the land belongs to the Jews and Jerusalem is their capital....Shalom my friend" So, what should be done with the arabs? And are you happy with the treatment beinv given to them? Just on another point. David invaded isreal in 1000bc. Strictly speaking, the Israelis stole the land off from someone else.. arab ancestors perhaps | |||
"This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. " I'm afraid this is absolute nonsense. The earliest archeological identifiers of the Israelites as a discrete society separate from the Canaanites were remains found in the highlands that showed an absence of burial rituals and a lack of pig bones indicating a pork-free diet. In terms of a written record, this was the Merneptah Stele. Combining the two together gives a rough estimate that dates the Israelites to around 1200BCE. Modern humans were living in the area currently occupied by Israel 20,000 years before that. This oft-repeated notion that the Israelites were the earliest inhabitants is mystifyingly prevalent, and not even remotely true | |||
| |||
"This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid this is absolute nonsense. The earliest archeological identifiers of the Israelites as a discrete society separate from the Canaanites were remains found in the highlands that showed an absence of burial rituals and a lack of pig bones indicating a pork-free diet. In terms of a written record, this was the Merneptah Stele. Combining the two together gives a rough estimate that dates the Israelites to around 1200BCE. Modern humans were living in the area currently occupied by Israel 20,000 years before that. This oft-repeated notion that the Israelites were the earliest inhabitants is mystifyingly prevalent, and not even remotely true" Obviously there were earlier inhabitanys, but there are not many people nowadays who identify as Canaanites or even Philistines. So of people who currently identify with a group, Jews/Israelis are by far the oldest inhabitants. The term Palestinian is a 20th century political invention, which is not to say there were not Arabs of various origins living on the land for centuries. But in any case, all this historical stuff is largely irrelevant. The situation is what it is now, and what counts is the future. | |||
"The Jews have their own written record, their history, giving genealogies, were they lived,their wars and troubles with other nations, times and dates, the Judges and kings they had, they name the pharoahs they had dealings with as well as kings of other nations.. Its the best ancient account we have of a people" Any accounts will be written from their perspective, so cant be ruled as the best evidence | |||
"This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid this is absolute nonsense. The earliest archeological identifiers of the Israelites as a discrete society separate from the Canaanites were remains found in the highlands that showed an absence of burial rituals and a lack of pig bones indicating a pork-free diet. In terms of a written record, this was the Merneptah Stele. Combining the two together gives a rough estimate that dates the Israelites to around 1200BCE. Modern humans were living in the area currently occupied by Israel 20,000 years before that. This oft-repeated notion that the Israelites were the earliest inhabitants is mystifyingly prevalent, and not even remotely true Obviously there were earlier inhabitanys, but there are not many people nowadays who identify as Canaanites or even Philistines. So of people who currently identify with a group, Jews/Israelis are by far the oldest inhabitants. The term Palestinian is a 20th century political invention, which is not to say there were not Arabs of various origins living on the land for centuries. But in any case, all this historical stuff is largely irrelevant. The situation is what it is now, and what counts is the future." Well the genetic record clearly shows that the Arab people who live there have just as much connection to the land as anyone else, and have ancestry that can be traced back to civilisations that existed at the same time as ancient Israelites, so I'd argue the point regarding Israelis having the most legitimate claim. Indeed, with so many years of coexistence and conversions (forced or otherwise) there isn't a huge genetic gulf between some of the Jewish and Arab populations anyway - there are probably shared ancestors between many of them. Whilst the term 'Palestinian' might be a 20th century political invention, the area was being called Palestine before the common era, Herodotus records it in 5 BCE so it's not like it's a "new invention" as such - and even if it were, how does that differentiate it from any of the countries born out of the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Yet does anyone question the existence or legitimacy of Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Pandering to those notions and the people that propagate them does no good in my opinion - the intellectual contortions they put themselves through to justify their stance is frankly quite pathetic - the tired and facile arguments about "who was its king, where were its borders" and all other manner of ridiculousness, as if any of that shit even matters. It's little more than a semantic straightjacket designed to ensnare and constrict the argument to trivial and contrived points whilst avoiding the much more salient and significant issues. I haven't got the slightest problem with the Jewish people, nor Israel as a country (I don't include the government in that - I have a big problem with the Israeli government, but then I have a big problem with almost every government, so that doesn't make them unique) - but I do have a major problem with people that perpetuate this shite. Fundamentally it is those sorts of people that create the situation there is now. Ideologues, brainwashed into this polarised stance that leaves no room for nuance, compromise or concession - vitriolic and vehement in their beliefs, and unwavering and unquestioning in their loyalty to the a government that shames itself and its people. These people (on both sides) are the reason there will never be any peace or progress. They actively make the world a worse place and keep kicking the can down the road - and that's why there will always be the same issues repeating over and over... | |||
"This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid this is absolute nonsense. The earliest archeological identifiers of the Israelites as a discrete society separate from the Canaanites were remains found in the highlands that showed an absence of burial rituals and a lack of pig bones indicating a pork-free diet. In terms of a written record, this was the Merneptah Stele. Combining the two together gives a rough estimate that dates the Israelites to around 1200BCE. Modern humans were living in the area currently occupied by Israel 20,000 years before that. This oft-repeated notion that the Israelites were the earliest inhabitants is mystifyingly prevalent, and not even remotely true Obviously there were earlier inhabitanys, but there are not many people nowadays who identify as Canaanites or even Philistines. So of people who currently identify with a group, Jews/Israelis are by far the oldest inhabitants. The term Palestinian is a 20th century political invention, which is not to say there were not Arabs of various origins living on the land for centuries. But in any case, all this historical stuff is largely irrelevant. The situation is what it is now, and what counts is the future. Well the genetic record clearly shows that the Arab people who live there have just as much connection to the land as anyone else, and have ancestry that can be traced back to civilisations that existed at the same time as ancient Israelites, so I'd argue the point regarding Israelis having the most legitimate claim. Indeed, with so many years of coexistence and conversions (forced or otherwise) there isn't a huge genetic gulf between some of the Jewish and Arab populations anyway - there are probably shared ancestors between many of them. Whilst the term 'Palestinian' might be a 20th century political invention, the area was being called Palestine before the common era, Herodotus records it in 5 BCE so it's not like it's a "new invention" as such - and even if it were, how does that differentiate it from any of the countries born out of the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Yet does anyone question the existence or legitimacy of Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Pandering to those notions and the people that propagate them does no good in my opinion - the intellectual contortions they put themselves through to justify their stance is frankly quite pathetic - the tired and facile arguments about "who was its king, where were its borders" and all other manner of ridiculousness, as if any of that shit even matters. It's little more than a semantic straightjacket designed to ensnare and constrict the argument to trivial and contrived points whilst avoiding the much more salient and significant issues. I haven't got the slightest problem with the Jewish people, nor Israel as a country (I don't include the government in that - I have a big problem with the Israeli government, but then I have a big problem with almost every government, so that doesn't make them unique) - but I do have a major problem with people that perpetuate this shite. Fundamentally it is those sorts of people that create the situation there is now. Ideologues, brainwashed into this polarised stance that leaves no room for nuance, compromise or concession - vitriolic and vehement in their beliefs, and unwavering and unquestioning in their loyalty to the a government that shames itself and its people. These people (on both sides) are the reason there will never be any peace or progress. They actively make the world a worse place and keep kicking the can down the road - and that's why there will always be the same issues repeating over and over..." The problem is that it is much easier for a violent group, whatever its size, to disrupt any real attempt at peace, then it is for a peaceful group to pursue peace. The Palestinians need a strong secular leader (and looking at surrounding Arab states unlikely to be a democrat) who can keep Hamas and Islamists under control, unreservedly accept the Jewish state of Israel and negotiate a viable Palestinian state. Until that happens there is no point in negotiating, but if it did happen, there would be plenty of room for compromise and concession. And there are plenty of people on the ground on both sides that would like to see this happen. | |||
"This is not the case with Israel, the archaeological evidence shows them to be the oldest inhabitants of the area, with the Palestinians up to a thousand years later, emigrating from mostly what is now Iraq and Syria. I'm afraid this is absolute nonsense. The earliest archeological identifiers of the Israelites as a discrete society separate from the Canaanites were remains found in the highlands that showed an absence of burial rituals and a lack of pig bones indicating a pork-free diet. In terms of a written record, this was the Merneptah Stele. Combining the two together gives a rough estimate that dates the Israelites to around 1200BCE. Modern humans were living in the area currently occupied by Israel 20,000 years before that. This oft-repeated notion that the Israelites were the earliest inhabitants is mystifyingly prevalent, and not even remotely true Obviously there were earlier inhabitanys, but there are not many people nowadays who identify as Canaanites or even Philistines. So of people who currently identify with a group, Jews/Israelis are by far the oldest inhabitants. The term Palestinian is a 20th century political invention, which is not to say there were not Arabs of various origins living on the land for centuries. But in any case, all this historical stuff is largely irrelevant. The situation is what it is now, and what counts is the future. Well the genetic record clearly shows that the Arab people who live there have just as much connection to the land as anyone else, and have ancestry that can be traced back to civilisations that existed at the same time as ancient Israelites, so I'd argue the point regarding Israelis having the most legitimate claim. Indeed, with so many years of coexistence and conversions (forced or otherwise) there isn't a huge genetic gulf between some of the Jewish and Arab populations anyway - there are probably shared ancestors between many of them. Whilst the term 'Palestinian' might be a 20th century political invention, the area was being called Palestine before the common era, Herodotus records it in 5 BCE so it's not like it's a "new invention" as such - and even if it were, how does that differentiate it from any of the countries born out of the collapse of the Ottoman empire? Yet does anyone question the existence or legitimacy of Turkey? Syria? Iraq? Pandering to those notions and the people that propagate them does no good in my opinion - the intellectual contortions they put themselves through to justify their stance is frankly quite pathetic - the tired and facile arguments about "who was its king, where were its borders" and all other manner of ridiculousness, as if any of that shit even matters. It's little more than a semantic straightjacket designed to ensnare and constrict the argument to trivial and contrived points whilst avoiding the much more salient and significant issues. I haven't got the slightest problem with the Jewish people, nor Israel as a country (I don't include the government in that - I have a big problem with the Israeli government, but then I have a big problem with almost every government, so that doesn't make them unique) - but I do have a major problem with people that perpetuate this shite. Fundamentally it is those sorts of people that create the situation there is now. Ideologues, brainwashed into this polarised stance that leaves no room for nuance, compromise or concession - vitriolic and vehement in their beliefs, and unwavering and unquestioning in their loyalty to the a government that shames itself and its people. These people (on both sides) are the reason there will never be any peace or progress. They actively make the world a worse place and keep kicking the can down the road - and that's why there will always be the same issues repeating over and over... The problem is that it is much easier for a violent group, whatever its size, to disrupt any real attempt at peace, then it is for a peaceful group to pursue peace. The Palestinians need a strong secular leader (and looking at surrounding Arab states unlikely to be a democrat) who can keep Hamas and Islamists under control, unreservedly accept the Jewish state of Israel and negotiate a viable Palestinian state. Until that happens there is no point in negotiating, but if it did happen, there would be plenty of room for compromise and concession. And there are plenty of people on the ground on both sides that would like to see this happen." Moderate leaders on all sides! A real chance lost was yitsak rabin, unfortunately assassinated by a hardline isreali | |||
"The Jews have their own written record, their history, giving genealogies, were they lived,their wars and troubles with other nations, times and dates, the Judges and kings they had, they name the pharoahs they had dealings with as well as kings of other nations.. Its the best ancient account we have of a people Any accounts will be written from their perspective, so cant be ruled as the best evidence " Its a well documented historical account, carefully preserved, it is unbiased as it records both the good points of the Israelis and also the bad, it points out with great clarity the failings of its kings and Judges and of the people themselves, it recounts also the strengths and weaknesses of the nations that surrounded Israel, it also recounts legalilities, birthrights and so forth..,. Its a pity that this Jewish Record is being ignored or swept under the carpet by those whom have never earnestly read the Jewish records as found in the Old Testament.... Its the most valuable Historical record we have | |||
