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Irish border
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"There is a pre-existing solution that exists now, if the UK leaves the EU and follows customs union with them. Will the PM have the guts to force her self-interested politicians to accept this, without a revolt - probably not by June. III" No chance dup would bring down the british government if she did. | |||
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"she did agree to no hard border but it's not something she can deliver , Now if there ant a solution in place in by June Ireland backed by the eu can Vito the trade talks going any further till the back stop is secured , What we should have done earlier in the year " No need for a veto. It would be the UK reneging on what was agreed in December. The UK kicked the can down the street in a way that only delays the inevitable - the implosion of the right in the UK. | |||
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"And what are the EUSSR going to do? We are leaving the Customs Union, but both Northern Ireland and Eire don't want a hard border. Is Juncker going to personally lay some bricks, razor wire and checkpoints on the border?" Mrs May has already agreed that at least part of the UK will stay in the customs union. Yet she tells the UK it won’t. The UK’s traditional tactic is divide and rule. It has no leverage over the EU whatsoever. Hence, those Brexiteers who want to beyond just leaving the EU - they want to smash it, too. It aint gonna happen. We shot ourselves in the foot and the sooner that penny drops for all the better. | |||
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"And what are the EUSSR going to do? We are leaving the Customs Union, but both Northern Ireland and Eire don't want a hard border. Is Juncker going to personally lay some bricks, razor wire and checkpoints on the border?" I love it when people are idiotic enough to say stuff like this... because it then doesn't answer a simple question how are you going to stop eu citizens who can legitimately go to ireland, then cross into the north and catch a ferry to the uk.... you want to control immigration, and yet you want to leave a border wide open and get the "other side" to deal with your issue! | |||
"Many people said they voted for Brexit because they wanted parliamentary sovereignty. At the end of the day, it will come down to parliamentary arithmetic as to the solution. Parliament outnumbers the PM and cabinet. And brexiters are massively outnumbered in both the commons and and lords. " The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? | |||
"Many people said they voted for Brexit because they wanted parliamentary sovereignty. At the end of the day, it will come down to parliamentary arithmetic as to the solution. Parliament outnumbers the PM and cabinet. And brexiters are massively outnumbered in both the commons and and lords. The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? " The EU don’t care about anything except the EU and will be quite happy to see it fall apart | |||
"Many people said they voted for Brexit because they wanted parliamentary sovereignty. At the end of the day, it will come down to parliamentary arithmetic as to the solution. Parliament outnumbers the PM and cabinet. And brexiters are massively outnumbered in both the commons and and lords. The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? " The people of the UK who voted to leave wouldn't have done so without a plan. They have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? | |||
"And what are the EUSSR going to do? We are leaving the Customs Union, but both Northern Ireland and Eire don't want a hard border. Is Juncker going to personally lay some bricks, razor wire and checkpoints on the border?" Taking control of our borders was very much a Brexit war cry as I recall? Reminds me of the Committee meetings of the Judean Popular Front. | |||
"There is a pre-existing solution that exists now, if the UK leaves the EU and follows customs union with them. Will the PM have the guts to force her self-interested politicians to accept this, without a revolt - probably not by June. III No chance dup would bring down the british government if she did." They wont because enough Labour MP's would vote with the government to save them | |||
"Many people said they voted for Brexit because they wanted parliamentary sovereignty. At the end of the day, it will come down to parliamentary arithmetic as to the solution. Parliament outnumbers the PM and cabinet. And brexiters are massively outnumbered in both the commons and and lords. The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The people of the UK who voted to leave wouldn't have done so without a plan. They have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? " I surely used too many surely's  Did the voters really need a plan for it? The Peace agreement arguably supersedes any laws or agreements made before or after by it's very nature, as quashing it would directly threaten lives. | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? " The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. | |||
"And what are the EUSSR going to do? We are leaving the Customs Union, but both Northern Ireland and Eire don't want a hard border. Is Juncker going to personally lay some bricks, razor wire and checkpoints on the border?" If you knew what was happening in negotiations then you'd know that the EU are against a border with check points and the Tories are advocating for Canada/US or Norway/Sweden border checkpoints. And youre right about one thing neither North or South want the checkpoints so are May and Davis going to put down the bricks and razorwire themselves despite that? | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence." As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? " So what's your solution ?? | |||
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" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? So what's your solution ??" I don't pretend to understand the nuances of regulatory alignment, Canada, Turkey or Norway models or even The Good Friday Agreement. Though the importance that must be placed on the peace brought by the Good Friday Agreement must remain as too the democratic vote enacted by Article 50. It must not be antagonised for sake of someone breaking the rules of the club, which it seems to be. The idea of sectioning off Manchester relates this easier as N. Ireland is really no less a place in the UK than it. Saying that 'Manchester' should have the same model as Canada, Norway or Turkey defeats the object of the UK pulling out of the EU. Whatever the UK does, 'Manchester' should follow as one cannot make a separate agreement to the other. Like the UK, NI has financial services, which to my knowledge no EU agreement has yet included, so something new has to be tabled. | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? So what's your solution ?? I don't pretend to understand the nuances of regulatory alignment, Canada, Turkey or Norway models or even The Good Friday Agreement. Though the importance that must be placed on the peace brought by the Good Friday Agreement must remain as too the democratic vote enacted by Article 50. It must not be antagonised for sake of someone breaking the rules of the club, which it seems to be. The idea of sectioning off Manchester relates this easier as N. Ireland is really no less a place in the UK than it. Saying that 'Manchester' should have the same model as Canada, Norway or Turkey defeats the object of the UK pulling out of the EU. Whatever the UK does, 'Manchester' should follow as one cannot make a separate agreement to the other. Like the UK, NI has financial services, which to my knowledge no EU agreement has yet included, so something new has to be tabled." But how can it be squared ? , UK outside of eu , outside of customs union , and no border can't work its simple as that . , Canada turkey norway all have border that they cross entering the eu , The UK has a land border that we all agree there shouldn't be a hard border or border infrastructure put back on , This is something that should have been discussed before there was a vote on brexit . If the uk public knew as much then as they do now , would the vote be the same ? UKIP were behind the vote for brexit where are they now ? As you see in the local elections Where is there support gone ?? | |||
"In the overall scheme of things it is difficult to see how this have any real relevance to the negotiations. The Irish economy is small compared to the UK ( this may be stating the obvious ) and neither the UK or NI want a hard border . No commercial organisation would make a big issue over a matter such as this . The EU should get to grips with commercial reality and accept that a border is unnecessary. The Irish economy is heavily dependent on the UK. A system similar to the traffic light system operated by VOSA should be sufficient to stop smuggling or illegal people movement. Technology have moved on in the last 20 years . We just need to use it and have vigorous enforcement . " The UK has said it's self that the technology ant ready and won't be for another 5 years , And either way it is border infrastructure no matter how you look at it , Your right on on thing the irish economy is small , but it's not an Irish economy it's an eu economy which is missive , There has to be checks on goods that cross into the eu if there is different standards allowed in the UK , if there is standards of goods allowed in the UK that ant allowed in the eu there has to be a way of stopping them entering the eu , There is only two options that can work , one is keeping the same standards , the second is border checks , | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? So what's your solution ?? I don't pretend to understand the nuances of regulatory alignment, Canada, Turkey or Norway models or even The Good Friday Agreement. Though the importance that must be placed on the peace brought by the Good Friday Agreement must remain as too the democratic vote enacted by Article 50. It must not be antagonised for sake of someone breaking the rules of the club, which it seems to be. The idea of sectioning off Manchester relates this easier as N. Ireland is really no less a place in the UK than it. Saying that 'Manchester' should have the same model as Canada, Norway or Turkey defeats the object of the UK pulling out of the EU. Whatever the UK does, 'Manchester' should follow as one cannot make a separate agreement to the other. Like the UK, NI has financial services, which to my knowledge no EU agreement has yet included, so something new has to be tabled. But how can it be squared ? , UK outside of eu , outside of customs union , and no border can't work its simple as that . , Canada turkey norway all have border that they cross entering the eu , The UK has a land border that we all agree there shouldn't be a hard border or border infrastructure put back on , This is something that should have been discussed before there was a vote on brexit . If the uk public knew as much then as they do now , would the vote be the same ? UKIP were behind the vote for brexit where are they now ? As you see in the local elections Where is there support gone ?? " In the local elections ukip support went mainly to the tories, because the tories are the main party of Brexit and the tories are saying we'll leave the single market and the customs union. Not much ukip support went to Labour because Labour have gone soft on Brexit saying they want to stay in the customs union. If Theresa May wants to keep those ukip supporters on side she will have to deliver a Brexit now that takes the UK out of the single market and out of the customs union. | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? So what's your solution ?? I don't pretend to understand the nuances of regulatory alignment, Canada, Turkey or Norway models or even The Good Friday Agreement. Though the importance that must be placed on the peace brought by the Good Friday Agreement must remain as too the democratic vote enacted by Article 50. It must not be antagonised for sake of someone breaking the rules of the club, which it seems to be. The idea of sectioning off Manchester relates this easier as N. Ireland is really no less a place in the UK than it. Saying that 'Manchester' should have the same model as Canada, Norway or Turkey defeats the object of the UK pulling out of the EU. Whatever the UK does, 'Manchester' should follow as one cannot make a separate agreement to the other. Like the UK, NI has financial services, which to my knowledge no EU agreement has yet included, so something new has to be tabled. But how can it be squared ? , UK outside of eu , outside of customs union , and no border can't work its simple as that . , Canada turkey norway all have border that they cross entering the eu , The UK has a land border that we all agree there shouldn't be a hard border or border infrastructure put back on , This is something that should have been discussed before there was a vote on brexit . If the uk public knew as much then as they do now , would the vote be the same ? UKIP were behind the vote for brexit where are they now ? As you see in the local elections Where is there support gone ?? In the local elections ukip support went mainly to the tories, because the tories are the main party of Brexit and the tories are saying we'll leave the single market and the customs union. Not much ukip support went to Labour because Labour have gone soft on Brexit saying they want to stay in the customs union. If Theresa May wants to keep those ukip supporters on side she will have to deliver a Brexit now that takes the UK out of the single market and out of the customs union. " So can you explain how it is going to work ? I mean with the uk outside of Europe with different standards and tariffs , and no hard border on the island of Ireland ? | |||
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"It will almost certainly be the same as Switzerlands relationship....." How can it there are customs posts on Switzerland border ! Any solution that leads to infrastructure on the irish border won't work | |||
" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? So what's your solution ?? I don't pretend to understand the nuances of regulatory alignment, Canada, Turkey or Norway models or even The Good Friday Agreement. Though the importance that must be placed on the peace brought by the Good Friday Agreement must remain as too the democratic vote enacted by Article 50. It must not be antagonised for sake of someone breaking the rules of the club, which it seems to be. The idea of sectioning off Manchester relates this easier as N. Ireland is really no less a place in the UK than it. Saying that 'Manchester' should have the same model as Canada, Norway or Turkey defeats the object of the UK pulling out of the EU. Whatever the UK does, 'Manchester' should follow as one cannot make a separate agreement to the other. Like the UK, NI has financial services, which to my knowledge no EU agreement has yet included, so something new has to be tabled." The potential division within the UK is a UK problem. Now youre leaving its nothing to do with the Republic or the EU how the UK manages its internal market. Thats what the UK voted for, control of its own market. What Ireland and the EU are concerned with is the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. There cannot be border infrastructure there, everyone has agreed on this point, Tories, Labour, EU, the people of Northern Ireland dont want infrastructure and neither do the people of Ireland. The Tories and EU have agreed a backstop of regulatory alignment between the EU and Northern Ireland. What the UK does to manage their own internal market beyond that is not our problem. The UK wanted the responsibility of managing their own situation independent of the EU and thats what they have. | |||
"It will almost certainly be the same as Switzerlands relationship..... How can it there are customs posts on Switzerland border ! Any solution that leads to infrastructure on the irish border won't work " Not to mention that Switzerland is in the Schengen area and the Tories wont agree to that. | |||
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" The EU cannot remain fixed to it current position with the threat of a divided Ireland surely? It must have a responsibility to keep nations at peace surely? The EUs goal is to maintain peace because the EUs aims are Irelands aims and more than anything else we want to maintain peace on the island. We've suggested and May has agreed to regulatory alignment. That will preserve the peaceful situation we have. The Tories have suggested Canada/US or Sweden/Norway style border checks between North and South. Thats unacceptable to many in the North and the South. One of the big successes of the GFA was taking down the border checkpoints and now the Tories want to bring them back. They want to divide the island again and the division was part of the reason for violence. As I understand it, we are exiting the EU by process, and in time all of it's legislative arrangement. If we carry regulatory alignment (take N. Ireland out and for argument sake apply Manchester), but exempt the rest of the UK, that would not be an exit from the EU but a partition of the UK and a fundamental adoption by the EU of any one particular part of UK border soil? So what's your solution ?? I don't pretend to understand the nuances of regulatory alignment, Canada, Turkey or Norway models or even The Good Friday Agreement. Though the importance that must be placed on the peace brought by the Good Friday Agreement must remain as too the democratic vote enacted by Article 50. It must not be antagonised for sake of someone breaking the rules of the club, which it seems to be. The idea of sectioning off Manchester relates this easier as N. Ireland is really no less a place in the UK than it. Saying that 'Manchester' should have the same model as Canada, Norway or Turkey defeats the object of the UK pulling out of the EU. Whatever the UK does, 'Manchester' should follow as one cannot make a separate agreement to the other. Like the UK, NI has financial services, which to my knowledge no EU agreement has yet included, so something new has to be tabled. The potential division within the UK is a UK problem. Now youre leaving its nothing to do with the Republic or the EU how the UK manages its internal market. Thats what the UK voted for, control of its own market. What Ireland and the EU are concerned with is the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. There cannot be border infrastructure there, everyone has agreed on this point, Tories, Labour, EU, the people of Northern Ireland dont want infrastructure and neither do the people of Ireland. The Tories and EU have agreed a backstop of regulatory alignment between the EU and Northern Ireland. What the UK does to manage their own internal market beyond that is not our problem. The UK wanted the responsibility of managing their own situation independent of the EU and thats what they have." Saying there can be regulatory alignment is like saying everything is equal when it isn't. Saying the Tories, Labour, the people of Ireland, N. Ire and the EU don't want to see a border is obvious, but there is still no agreement is there? The number of products and departments the EU has scope over is endless and ongoing. I am only acting as Devils advocate for purpose of discussion, but the reason for withdrawal, 'to take back control', so it's either full alignment or not, meaning a hard or soft border, or something different not yet tabled. If Ireland and the EU are concerned there is to be no boarder then why are they pushing for equivalence through alignment? If the Peace agreement fails will the EU be part of any rebuild expense? They have come up with no other models. What we do after withdrawal is down to our negotiations with countries. But we are talking about the withdrawal from the EU and either a straight split or frictionless access to services and trade. | |||
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A strong PM would have the integrity to do the right thing for the UK, ignoring party needs and issues - but the same thing that got them to this mess is still around. | |||
" Saying there can be regulatory alignment is like saying everything is equal when it isn't. Saying the Tories, Labour, the people of Ireland, N. Ire and the EU don't want to see a border is obvious, but there is still no agreement is there?" Yes there is a agreement. In december the UK and EU agreed that regulatory alignment is what will happen unless theres a better solution. So regulatory alignment is the agreement. There is no issue with enacting regulatory alignment for the EU. There is an internal debate in the UK as to how that will work between the 4 countries within the UK but that is a matter for the UK, not the EU. " The number of products and departments the EU has scope over is endless and ongoing. I am only acting as Devils advocate for purpose of discussion, but the reason for withdrawal, 'to take back control', so it's either full alignment or not, meaning a hard or soft border, or something different not yet tabled. " Full alignment is the agreed position for Northern Ireland so there is no need for a border on the island of Ireland. " If Ireland and the EU are concerned there is to be no boarder then why are they pushing for equivalence through alignment? " Because that is the only proposed solution that means there will be no border. " If the Peace agreement fails will the EU be part of any rebuild expense? They have come up with no other models. " The EU and Ireland have come up with something that will work. It works for the island of Ireland and it works for the EU. It does not work for the far right in the British parliament but that is a domestic issue for the UK to resolve not an EU issue. If the Tories screw up the peace process why are you expecting the EU to pay for it? The Tories have not come up with any solution for a borderless Ireland. The EU have. " What we do after withdrawal is down to our negotiations with countries. But we are talking about the withdrawal from the EU and either a straight split or frictionless access to services and trade." You can talk about that but the Tories and EU arent. The Tories have refused to enact the 4 freedoms so there will be no frictionless access to services and trade. And the Tories and EU have already agreed to regulatory alignment so theres no straight split either. | |||
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"What if Eire left the EU, too?" What if they did? Who cares | |||
"What if Eire left the EU, too?" Would make no difference. If both countries aligned their regulations and maintain the common travel area, no need for a fixed border. If they don’t, you need some control over what crosses it. The only difference is UK would be negotiating with Ireland, not the EU27. | |||
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"Exactly." And your point? Or is a bit of the old colonialist attitude - because we are leaving so should Ireland? | |||
"What if Eire left the EU, too?" Is this the international equivalent of "If your friend jumped off a cliff would you do it too?" Ireland is not going to shoot itself in the face by leaving the EU. Pro EU sentiment has increased across the EU as a result of Brexit since people see just how foolish it is to walk away from something with so many benefits. | |||
"What if Eire left the EU, too?" We would need to enter into a customs union with Eire to retain a frictionless border. We would only be able to enter into trade agreements with the consent of Eire. I can't see many Brexiters signing up for that. | |||
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"What if Eire left the EU, too? We would need to enter into a customs union with Eire to retain a frictionless border. We would only be able to enter into trade agreements with the consent of Eire. I can't see many Brexiters signing up for that. " Why would we have to enter a customs union with them? There wasn't one between 1921 and 1971. | |||
"What if Eire left the EU, too? We would need to enter into a customs union with Eire to retain a frictionless border. We would only be able to enter into trade agreements with the consent of Eire. I can't see many Brexiters signing up for that. Why would we have to enter a customs union with them? There wasn't one between 1921 and 1971." Times change. What if one country decides to adopt food standards the other thinks is dangerous like the US has compared to the EU on chlorinated chicken. | |||
"What if Eire left the EU, too? We would need to enter into a customs union with Eire to retain a frictionless border. We would only be able to enter into trade agreements with the consent of Eire. I can't see many Brexiters signing up for that. Why would we have to enter a customs union with them? There wasn't one between 1921 and 1971." And there were border checks. The whole point is to avoid the border checks as per the GFA.  | |||
"What if Eire left the EU, too? We would need to enter into a customs union with Eire to retain a frictionless border. We would only be able to enter into trade agreements with the consent of Eire. I can't see many Brexiters signing up for that. Why would we have to enter a customs union with them? There wasn't one between 1921 and 1971." Remember “The Troubles”? Two of the first people killed were Customs Officers and no-one wants to go back to those days. The Good Friday Agreement fitted in seamlessly with both country’s membership of the EU and thereby the seeds of peace in a very troubled area were sewn. | |||
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"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU?" I already did. "Is this the international equivalent of "If your friend jumped off a cliff would you do it too?" Ireland is not going to shoot itself in the face by leaving the EU. Pro EU sentiment has increased across the EU as a result of Brexit since people see just how foolish it is to walk away from something with so many benefits." We see it as a stupid idea. Only 10% of people would back an exit from the EU according to the most recent survey. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU?" You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course." Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. " Yet you can't name one other country that has a referendum planned on leaving the EU can you? | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. " From Pews most recent survey last year: Trends from last year reveal a sharp rebound in views of the EU in a number of countries: up 18 percentage points in Germany and France, 15 points in Spain, 13 points in the Netherlands and 10 points in the UK. This upswing is the latest shift in an up-and-down cycle over the past decade. Younger Europeans, who have never known a world without the European project, hold particularly positive views of the Brussels-based organization. A median of 73% of those ages 18 to 29 have a favorable opinion of it, compared with a median of 58% of those ages 50 and older. The generation gap is largest in the UK (33 percentage points between young and old), the Netherlands (23 points) and France (22 points). So the trends are the opposite of what you say and as older voters are replaced by younger that trend is only going to increase. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. From Pews most recent survey last year: Trends from last year reveal a sharp rebound in views of the EU in a number of countries: up 18 percentage points in Germany and France, 15 points in Spain, 13 points in the Netherlands and 10 points in the UK. This upswing is the latest shift in an up-and-down cycle over the past decade. Younger Europeans, who have never known a world without the European project, hold particularly positive views of the Brussels-based organization. A median of 73% of those ages 18 to 29 have a favorable opinion of it, compared with a median of 58% of those ages 50 and older. The generation gap is largest in the UK (33 percentage points between young and old), the Netherlands (23 points) and France (22 points). So the trends are the opposite of what you say and as older voters are replaced by younger that trend is only going to increase." The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. | |||
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"I think I may have solved the Irish Problem. Wait for it.... As The Good Friday Agreement didn't involve the EU. We have a no deal Brexit. We then negotiate a new trade agreement with Ireland, as we would have to with every other country. However, due to proximity and historic issues, the EU and Ireland can then facilitate seamless passage of goods between regions. (am I being too simple)" Well Ireland negotiates its trade deals through the EU. And if theres to be a full trade deal (goods and services) thats basically regulatory alignment. The Tories will have to come to an agreement with the EU at some stage theres really no other way for this to end. | |||
" The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. " Thats only true if you buy into the ludicrous premise that all voters in Europe are single issue voters and that single issue is membership of the EU. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course." I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. From Pews most recent survey last year: Trends from last year reveal a sharp rebound in views of the EU in a number of countries: up 18 percentage points in Germany and France, 15 points in Spain, 13 points in the Netherlands and 10 points in the UK. This upswing is the latest shift in an up-and-down cycle over the past decade. Younger Europeans, who have never known a world without the European project, hold particularly positive views of the Brussels-based organization. A median of 73% of those ages 18 to 29 have a favorable opinion of it, compared with a median of 58% of those ages 50 and older. The generation gap is largest in the UK (33 percentage points between young and old), the Netherlands (23 points) and France (22 points). So the trends are the opposite of what you say and as older voters are replaced by younger that trend is only going to increase. The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. " So have they got referendums planned to leave the EU?  | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. " You know that how tax and spend systems work don't you? Do you think Alaska has as big tax returns as New York? The city of London subsidises the rest of the UK. Do you think London should leave the rest of the UK to correct this unfairness? | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. You know that how tax and spend systems work don't you? Do you think Alaska has as big tax returns as New York? The city of London subsidises the rest of the UK. Do you think London should leave the rest of the UK to correct this unfairness? " Alaska is a state of the nation of the USA. London is a part of the nation of the UK. Do you think the EU should be a nation? With the UK one of its federal states? | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. From Pews most recent survey last year: Trends from last year reveal a sharp rebound in views of the EU in a number of countries: up 18 percentage points in Germany and France, 15 points in Spain, 13 points in the Netherlands and 10 points in the UK. This upswing is the latest shift in an up-and-down cycle over the past decade. Younger Europeans, who have never known a world without the European project, hold particularly positive views of the Brussels-based organization. A median of 73% of those ages 18 to 29 have a favorable opinion of it, compared with a median of 58% of those ages 50 and older. The generation gap is largest in the UK (33 percentage points between young and old), the Netherlands (23 points) and France (22 points). So the trends are the opposite of what you say and as older voters are replaced by younger that trend is only going to increase. The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. So have they got referendums planned to leave the EU? "Did the UK have a referendum planned in 2014 when ukip won the MEP elections here in the UK? No we didn't and yet 2 years later in 2016 the UK voted to leave the EU. Eurosceptic parties are winning in places like Italy and Hungary, it's just a matter of time before another country decides to leave. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. You know that how tax and spend systems work don't you? Do you think Alaska has as big tax returns as New York? The city of London subsidises the rest of the UK. Do you think London should leave the rest of the UK to correct this unfairness? Alaska is a state of the nation of the USA. London is a part of the nation of the UK. Do you think the EU should be a nation? With the UK one of its federal states?" That matters not, it is what it is, no different to UN budgets, and the UN isn't a nation. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. You know that how tax and spend systems work don't you? Do you think Alaska has as big tax returns as New York? The city of London subsidises the rest of the UK. Do you think London should leave the rest of the UK to correct this unfairness? Alaska is a state of the nation of the USA. London is a part of the nation of the UK. Do you think the EU should be a nation? With the UK one of its federal states?" The EU is already well down the road towards full federalism. The EU already has a flag and a national anthem. | |||
" The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. " do you know what the actual net uk contribution works out out... its about £2 per day for every man woman and child living in the uk! when you put it like that.... its not that big a sum.... also.... some part of this country are net benefactors... scotland is a net benefactor... wales is a net benefactor.... northern ireland is a net benefactor... north east england is a net benefactor... cornwall is a net benefactor... then there have been projects all over the EU that have benefitted from EU money... Liverpool john lennon airport expansion... manchester metro expansion..... Midlands metro expansion... newcastle/gateshead quayside regeneration hitachi factory in north east england building the next gen intercity trains nissan in sunderland building the factory Birmingham's international conference centre and symphony hall and before people say "well its our money" would those projects have been funded if it had been left to our governments???? so where as the south east subsides the spending for the rest of the uk... some EU money does as well.... | |||
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"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4. "the south east basically is..... I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away.... poorer but happier...  | |||
" The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. Thats only true if you buy into the ludicrous premise that all voters in Europe are single issue voters and that single issue is membership of the EU." The data you provided on those opinion polls is out of date, even you admitted in your post it was from last year. The hard data I cited from the Italian and Hungary elections is from THIS year, in the case of the Hungary elections just a few short weeks ago. | |||
" The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. Thats only true if you buy into the ludicrous premise that all voters in Europe are single issue voters and that single issue is membership of the EU. The data you provided on those opinion polls is out of date, even you admitted in your post it was from last year. The hard data I cited from the Italian and Hungary elections is from THIS year, in the case of the Hungary elections just a few short weeks ago. " but you want to talk about italy and hungary when the topic is about ireland... and ireland had an election in 2016, and their wasn't much if any anti eu sentiment...... | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier... "I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners. | |||
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"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners."If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold. | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold."You're not getting in without a visa. | |||
"I dont think we will ever have a return to the bad old days regarding the border, not many have the stomach for it especially the current generation who have known relative peace and prosperity. There are and always will be a small number on both sides who still consider the six counties unfinished business. Republican smuggling gangs that operate today might gain/lose im unsure. As for the EU, anyone that has visited Ireland over the last 30 years will see how much our country has progressed with EU funded projects, that said our fishing industry will have their own say on that. There are warning signs though, when we voted no in the lisbon treaty referendum we were coerced into a second vote and i imagine had we voted no in the second we would have had a third referendum etc etc. But overall being in the EU has been a positive for ireland and most here see that and as such were shocked by brexit. Relatives of mine are dairy farmers in tyrone but sell their milk to a southern dairy so they are very anxious as to what lies ahead" Were you really coerced or did your rejection first time round result in changes which were much more acceptable for Irish voters? Democracy in action. | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa. "Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. Absolute nonsense. Eurosceptisism is on the rise all over Europe, not just in the UK, you only have to look at the recent elections in Italy and Hungary to see that, where Eurosceptic parties won a convincing majority of the vote. Even Macron admitted on camera that France would probably vote leave given the choice and Marine Le Pen wasn't far behind him when he got elected. Geert Wilders freedom party came 2nd in Netherlands, and the Eurosceptic AFD now hold a significant number of seats in Germany. It's just a matter of time before another country follows the uk's lead and leaves the shambles in Brussels, the writing is on the wall for the flimsy house of cards that the EU really is. " There is very high majority support for remaining in the EU across European countries - after the Brexit vote it actually increased in many places! There may be prominence of factions that want to quit but the desire,over several years, is for people to remain. It's easy to be swayed by some news items that show militants at work but they distort the actual reality - especially if they are reported on and viewed via right-wing media sites. | |||
" The trends are opposite to what you say based on real election results as seen in Italy and Hungary. That is real hard data, and not some wishy washy opinion polls which is where you appear to have got your data from. Thats only true if you buy into the ludicrous premise that all voters in Europe are single issue voters and that single issue is membership of the EU. The data you provided on those opinion polls is out of date, even you admitted in your post it was from last year. The hard data I cited from the Italian and Hungary elections is from THIS year, in the case of the Hungary elections just a few short weeks ago. " Avoiding the point again Centy? "Thats only true if you buy into the ludicrous premise that all voters in Europe are single issue voters and that single issue is membership of the EU." The "data" you provide isnt relevant since people arent voting solely on the EU issue. And yea I did say the poll I cited was from last year because I have absolutely no problem being completely transparent in what I post, unlike you who wants to pretend that every vote cast in every EU general election is based on EU membership and nothing else. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. You know that how tax and spend systems work don't you? Do you think Alaska has as big tax returns as New York? The city of London subsidises the rest of the UK. Do you think London should leave the rest of the UK to correct this unfairness? Alaska is a state of the nation of the USA. London is a part of the nation of the UK. Do you think the EU should be a nation? With the UK one of its federal states? That matters not, it is what it is, no different to UN budgets, and the UN isn't a nation. " You say you're level 6/7 education and you can't see the difference between the EU and the UN? | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU? You possibly need to understand that the mainly English in our country have an in-built superiority complex. All of the problems that we have with the E.u revolve around us not being able to accept that foreigners can be on equal standing to an English person. Most people in Europe can take on board, understand and live with the concept of an equal Union and this is why pro EU sentiment has increased in proportion to the snarling and hysterical nonsense that is being spouted by prominent Brexiters. It is simple really - together, every one achieves more because the Union is far greater than the sum of the individual parts. Unless you you are xenophobic knobhead, of course. I cannot see a single piece of evidence to back your statement that Enlish or UK people will not accept that non UK residents are of equal standing . The opposite is probably the case . The UK is a lot more tolerant than other counties. The fact that so many non UK residents want to come here would suggest that we are regarded as a friendly country. The costs which we pay to the EU are unrealistic and unfair. It is ridiculous that only a small number of counties make a net contribution and we are subsidising lots of other counties. You know that how tax and spend systems work don't you? Do you think Alaska has as big tax returns as New York? The city of London subsidises the rest of the UK. Do you think London should leave the rest of the UK to correct this unfairness? Alaska is a state of the nation of the USA. London is a part of the nation of the UK. Do you think the EU should be a nation? With the UK one of its federal states? That matters not, it is what it is, no different to UN budgets, and the UN isn't a nation. You say you're level 6/7 education and you can't see the difference between the EU and the UN? " Not in relation to budget contributions and where aid and resources are spent, no, I can't. Are you pissed off that the World Food Programme isn't delivering food in your neighbourhood despite your taxes paying for it? | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa.
Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag. "There's plenty of nice places up north, get your head out your backside and you might realise that!A lot friendlier too and looking at the news most of the crime is down south! | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa.
Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag.
There's plenty of nice places up north, get your head out your backside and you might realise that!A lot friendlier too and looking at the news most of the crime is down south! "You certainly get bigger chips up north, they can be found on many a shoulder | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa.
Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag.
There's plenty of nice places up north, get your head out your backside and you might realise that!A lot friendlier too and looking at the news most of the crime is down south!
You certainly get bigger chips up north, they can be found on many a shoulder "Oh do you only have french fries on yours! | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa.
Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag.
There's plenty of nice places up north, get your head out your backside and you might realise that!A lot friendlier too and looking at the news most of the crime is down south! "It's the inevitable next phase of devolution .You lot in Wales should raise and spend your own taxes in Wales.Its an embarrassment you need a hand out. Stand on your own two feet as proud Welsh people. Southern taxes should be spent on southern people. I know Manchester is very keen on keeping its own revenue .It will happen.More control at a local level.Local people should benefit from local businesses.Not send it up north and into Wales and Scotland spending it on stuff that doesn't benefit the community that generates it.Common bloody sense! | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa.
Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag.
There's plenty of nice places up north, get your head out your backside and you might realise that!A lot friendlier too and looking at the news most of the crime is down south!
It's the inevitable next phase of devolution .You lot in Wales should raise and spend your own taxes in Wales.Its an embarrassment you need a hand out. Stand on your own two feet as proud Welsh people.
Southern taxes should be spent on southern people.
I know Manchester is very keen on keeping its own revenue .It will happen.More control at a local level.Local people should benefit from local businesses.Not send it up north and into Wales and Scotland spending it on stuff that doesn't benefit the community that generates it.Common bloody sense!"Next there'll be regulatory alignment between regions. | |||
"Should the south breakaway from the burden that the north has become.The south seems to be subsidising everyone north of the M4.
the south east basically is.....
I think the rest of the country would be delighted if the south east broke away....
poorer but happier...
I would be happy if my taxes only supported the south.Id vote for independence and freedom from northeners.
If you hired your deck chairs in winter time, you could gain extra revenue as we are used to the cold.
You're not getting in without a visa.
Theyll all want come to the beautiful south .However we have standards and the flotsam and jetsam that want come down this way aren't welcome or wanted.J Half of them up north are on a tag.
There's plenty of nice places up north, get your head out your backside and you might realise that!A lot friendlier too and looking at the news most of the crime is down south!
It's the inevitable next phase of devolution .You lot in Wales should raise and spend your own taxes in Wales.Its an embarrassment you need a hand out. Stand on your own two feet as proud Welsh people.
Southern taxes should be spent on southern people.
I know Manchester is very keen on keeping its own revenue .It will happen.More control at a local level.Local people should benefit from local businesses.Not send it up north and into Wales and Scotland spending it on stuff that doesn't benefit the community that generates it.Common bloody sense!
Next there'll be regulatory alignment between regions. "Cambridgeshire with the same tariffs as Bedfordshire! Surely not! | |||
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"A new poll out today shows Ireland has the highest pro EU numbers on record. A full 92% support Ireland staying in the EU with only 7% willing to consider Irexit. Brexit comtinues to drive up support for the EU. Majorities also support increasing our payments to the EU because we recognise the long term value in a stronger EU market. Among those aged 18 - 24 support for the EU is at 97% and Dubliners as a whole are at 96%. As the Irish are the nation most closely following Brexit it should give reasonable Brexiters pause for thought that Brexit is driving up our support and we're willing to increase our financial obligations to stay in it. That shows that when it comes down to it we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and back the EU with not just our support and membership but with cold, hard cash. But Im sure as usual most Brexiters will see themselves as being right when everyone else is wrong." No doubt this will be in the region of €13 billion. That being the sum you never missed Apple paying in taxes.  | |||
" No doubt this will be in the region of €13 billion. That being the sum you never missed Apple paying in taxes. "What a terrible result that was, we got jobs, investment and then an enforced €13bn  | |||
" No doubt this will be in the region of €13 billion. That being the sum you never missed Apple paying in taxes.
What a terrible result that was, we got jobs, investment and then an enforced €13bn "EU chasing out all those corporations. If you only had Regional Regulatory Alignment. | |||
"A new poll out today shows Ireland has the highest pro EU numbers on record. A full 92% support Ireland staying in the EU with only 7% willing to consider Irexit. Brexit comtinues to drive up support for the EU. Majorities also support increasing our payments to the EU because we recognise the long term value in a stronger EU market. Among those aged 18 - 24 support for the EU is at 97% and Dubliners as a whole are at 96%. As the Irish are the nation most closely following Brexit it should give reasonable Brexiters pause for thought that Brexit is driving up our support and we're willing to increase our financial obligations to stay in it. That shows that when it comes down to it we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and back the EU with not just our support and membership but with cold, hard cash. But Im sure as usual most Brexiters will see themselves as being right when everyone else is wrong." I would not be paying too much attention to one poll. Unto recently Ireland has been a net beneficiary of EU funding and peoples attitude would be different if they were forced to make significant long term contributions to the EU. Depending on the audience that you select you can make an opinion poll return any result that you like . Why would anyone willing pat more money to the EU. ? I generally just ignore opinion polls and rely on the results that matter. ( namely the election results on the day ) . | |||
"A new poll out today shows Ireland has the highest pro EU numbers on record. A full 92% support Ireland staying in the EU with only 7% willing to consider Irexit. Brexit comtinues to drive up support for the EU. Majorities also support increasing our payments to the EU because we recognise the long term value in a stronger EU market. Among those aged 18 - 24 support for the EU is at 97% and Dubliners as a whole are at 96%. As the Irish are the nation most closely following Brexit it should give reasonable Brexiters pause for thought that Brexit is driving up our support and we're willing to increase our financial obligations to stay in it. That shows that when it comes down to it we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and back the EU with not just our support and membership but with cold, hard cash. But Im sure as usual most Brexiters will see themselves as being right when everyone else is wrong. I would not be paying too much attention to one poll. Unto recently Ireland has been a net beneficiary of EU funding and peoples attitude would be different if they were forced to make significant long term contributions to the EU. Depending on the audience that you select you can make an opinion poll return any result that you like . Why would anyone willing pat more money to the EU. ? I generally just ignore opinion polls and rely on the results that matter. ( namely the election results on the day ) ." Exactly! That's why REAL election results are a more realistic indicator of the wider general anti EU feeling all over the European continent. Opinion polls can be skewed one way or the other in a way that REAL election results can't. On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid.
Anti EU and Eurosceptic parties won a convincing and healthy majority in the Italian elections this year and just a few weeks ago the anti EU and Eurosceptic Victor Orban won a landslide victory in Hungary. Victor Orban was sworn in today as Hungary's leader and his party now has a 2 thirds majority in the Hungarian Parliament. He has also indicated he intends to veto and block any new EU budget that would require Hungary to pay more than it currently does in contribution fees. | |||
"A new poll out today shows Ireland has the highest pro EU numbers on record. A full 92% support Ireland staying in the EU with only 7% willing to consider Irexit. Brexit comtinues to drive up support for the EU. Majorities also support increasing our payments to the EU because we recognise the long term value in a stronger EU market. Among those aged 18 - 24 support for the EU is at 97% and Dubliners as a whole are at 96%. As the Irish are the nation most closely following Brexit it should give reasonable Brexiters pause for thought that Brexit is driving up our support and we're willing to increase our financial obligations to stay in it. That shows that when it comes down to it we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and back the EU with not just our support and membership but with cold, hard cash. But Im sure as usual most Brexiters will see themselves as being right when everyone else is wrong. I would not be paying too much attention to one poll. Unto recently Ireland has been a net beneficiary of EU funding and peoples attitude would be different if they were forced to make significant long term contributions to the EU. Depending on the audience that you select you can make an opinion poll return any result that you like . Why would anyone willing pat more money to the EU. ? I generally just ignore opinion polls and rely on the results that matter. ( namely the election results on the day ) . Exactly! That's why REAL election results are a more realistic indicator of the wider general anti EU feeling all over the European continent. Opinion polls can be skewed one way or the other in a way that REAL election results can't. On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid.
Anti EU and Eurosceptic parties won a convincing and healthy majority in the Italian elections this year and just a few weeks ago the anti EU and Eurosceptic Victor Orban won a landslide victory in Hungary. Victor Orban was sworn in today as Hungary's leader and his party now has a 2 thirds majority in the Hungarian Parliament. He has also indicated he intends to veto and block any new EU budget that would require Hungary to pay more than it currently does in contribution fees. "Yet still no referendums on leaving the EU, why is that? | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. " Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? | |||
"There is a pre-existing solution that exists now, if the UK leaves the EU and follows customs union with them. Will the PM have the guts to force her self-interested politicians to accept this, without a revolt - probably not by June. III Be a bit naive as Labour would be more bending to the opponents of DUP ..all parties should realise a bad deal is better than no deal in many cases .. No chance dup would bring down the british government if she did." | |||
"A new poll out today shows Ireland has the highest pro EU numbers on record. A full 92% support Ireland staying in the EU with only 7% willing to consider Irexit. Brexit comtinues to drive up support for the EU. Majorities also support increasing our payments to the EU because we recognise the long term value in a stronger EU market. Among those aged 18 - 24 support for the EU is at 97% and Dubliners as a whole are at 96%. As the Irish are the nation most closely following Brexit it should give reasonable Brexiters pause for thought that Brexit is driving up our support and we're willing to increase our financial obligations to stay in it. That shows that when it comes down to it we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and back the EU with not just our support and membership but with cold, hard cash. But Im sure as usual most Brexiters will see themselves as being right when everyone else is wrong. I would not be paying too much attention to one poll. Unto recently Ireland has been a net beneficiary of EU funding and peoples attitude would be different if they were forced to make significant long term contributions to the EU. Depending on the audience that you select you can make an opinion poll return any result that you like . Why would anyone willing pat more money to the EU. ? I generally just ignore opinion polls and rely on the results that matter. ( namely the election results on the day ) . Exactly! That's why REAL election results are a more realistic indicator of the wider general anti EU feeling all over the European continent. Opinion polls can be skewed one way or the other in a way that REAL election results can't. On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid.
Anti EU and Eurosceptic parties won a convincing and healthy majority in the Italian elections this year and just a few weeks ago the anti EU and Eurosceptic Victor Orban won a landslide victory in Hungary. Victor Orban was sworn in today as Hungary's leader and his party now has a 2 thirds majority in the Hungarian Parliament. He has also indicated he intends to veto and block any new EU budget that would require Hungary to pay more than it currently does in contribution fees. "Have you ever been to Hungary? One of the reasons why he has 2/3rds majority is because he uses the same tactics as Putin! The opposition is fragmented and struggle against the state oppression. Hungary is a poor country and is mainly tourism and agricultural - wine is very important. It's the same old case Viktor has been corupt and looked after his cronies and the masses are struggling. Like the pis party in Poland they want all the benfits of EU membership but it's all about to end. The hand that feeds them will stop the payments. | |||
"Any Irish people like to comment about the idea and will within Eire for the leaving of the EU?" Well a recent poll said 92% want to stay in the EU. 7% want to leave and 1% don't know! | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum??" I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? | |||
"Will there be a solution by June ???" Maybe, they may scrap the whole idea of Brexit, that'll fix the Irish border problem in one swoop. | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? " Hmm, still no proof to back up the claims. What a surprise. Some people prefer to live in a post truth world. | |||
"Will there be a solution by June ??? Maybe, they may scrap the whole idea of Brexit, that'll fix the Irish border problem in one swoop." And ignore the wishes of the public? Bye Bye Parliament and Bye Bye MPs. | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? Hmm, still no proof to back up the claims. What a surprise. Some people prefer to live in a post truth world." I don't think that the detail matters. The point is that the polls were wrong in the general election. None predicted Cameron's overall victory. None predicted Brexit. None predicted Trump. And May went to the Polls based on opinion polls that indicated that she would have a massive majority and that was wrong too. | |||
"Will there be a solution by June ??? Maybe, they may scrap the whole idea of Brexit, that'll fix the Irish border problem in one swoop. And ignore the wishes of the public? Bye Bye Parliament and Bye Bye MPs." Through what mechanism? | |||
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"Courts and/or civil unrest." lol | |||
"Courts and/or civil unrest." So you are suggesting violence to overthrow parliament? I'm guessing parliamentary sovereignty wasn't high up on you list of reasons to vote for Brexit. Through what mechanism would the courts be able to intervene if parliament voted to remain in the EU? | |||
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"Courts and/or civil unrest." I can see it now. The idiots legally challenging a result that wasn't legally binding. And the violence these old people can inflict doesn't bear thinking about. And all the while the people who spout loudest about unrest and revolution are hiding behind the big boys shouting "come on then" at the other half of the country. | |||
"I'm not suggesting it at all. I am saying that is what would happen. Parliament is not sovereign to the extent that it can ignore the expressed democratic wishes of the people? There is no way that it could do that and survive. It is there to represent the people and to ignore the referendum would be clearly not representing the people. That would permit a Court challenge and the public pressure would cause the Government and the parliamentary system to collapse. " Really? What happened as a result of the 1979 Scottish devolution referendum in which 51% voted to have a Scottish assembly? | |||
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"In 1979, the rules of the referendum stated that it would not be followed if less than 40% of the registered electorate were not in favour. 51% were in favour, but the turnout was only 64%, and therefore as less than 33% of the registered electorate voted in favour the referendum had no effect under the rules. Those were the rules then, and those rules were kept to. So there has not been a previous referendum that has been ignored." So no overthrow of parliament, no large-scale civil unrest, no court ordered dissolving of parliament. How about Switzerland's 2014 immigration referendum? | |||
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"Will there be a solution by June ??? Maybe, they may scrap the whole idea of Brexit, that'll fix the Irish border problem in one swoop. And ignore the wishes of the public? Bye Bye Parliament and Bye Bye MPs." I feel (as one of the 17.4 million), that if the stark choices were spelt out, then the decision could be reversed. Many have already come to that thought, and you might well find (like UKIP), that the number of dissenters would fall rapidly. There is no ideal Brexit, there is no Brexit that satisfies everybody and there is no Brexit that fits the ideal that was sold to the people of this country. | |||
"Will there be a solution by June ??? Maybe, they may scrap the whole idea of Brexit, that'll fix the Irish border problem in one swoop. And ignore the wishes of the public? Bye Bye Parliament and Bye Bye MPs. I feel (as one of the 17.4 million), that if the stark choices were spelt out, then the decision could be reversed. Many have already come to that thought, and you might well find (like UKIP), that the number of dissenters would fall rapidly. There is no ideal Brexit, there is no Brexit that satisfies everybody and there is no Brexit that fits the ideal that was sold to the people of this country." But there is going to be Brexit. | |||
"(...) I feel (as one of the 17.4 million), that if the stark choices were spelt out, then the decision could be reversed. Many have already come to that thought, and you might well find (like UKIP), that the number of dissenters would fall rapidly. There is no ideal Brexit, there is no Brexit that satisfies everybody and there is no Brexit that fits the ideal that was sold to the people of this country."  | |||
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"Will there be a solution by June ??? Maybe, they may scrap the whole idea of Brexit, that'll fix the Irish border problem in one swoop. And ignore the wishes of the public? Bye Bye Parliament and Bye Bye MPs. I feel (as one of the 17.4 million), that if the stark choices were spelt out, then the decision could be reversed. Many have already come to that thought, and you might well find (like UKIP), that the number of dissenters would fall rapidly. There is no ideal Brexit, there is no Brexit that satisfies everybody and there is no Brexit that fits the ideal that was sold to the people of this country." And there is no ideal EU either, no EU that satisfies everybody, and no EU that fits the ideal that was sold to the people of this country. If there was, then there would be no reason to talk about EU reform, and remain would have won by a landslide. | |||
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"From my point of view the only way forward is to have a united world all under one government but that is so far off as long as we have the same old parties in control around the world maybe one day our great great grandchildren will have that but one can only dream " We will come togther when the aliens turn up | |||
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" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? Hmm, still no proof to back up the claims. What a surprise. Some people prefer to live in a post truth world. I don't think that the detail matters. The point is that the polls were wrong in the general election. None predicted Cameron's overall victory. None predicted Brexit. None predicted Trump. And May went to the Polls based on opinion polls that indicated that she would have a massive majority and that was wrong too. " The detail does matter. He said eve of the election there were a number of major polls saying Remain was 10 points clear. It was a blatant lie. And I pointed to 4 polls that predicted a Leave win and 6 others that were within the margin of error. So saying the polls were wrong (as you just did) is incorrect. The problem is that people ignore the phrase "margin for error" which is an integral part of polling and they ignored polls which went against the perceived wisdom because everyone assumed Remain would win. For Camerons election there was a major last minute shift with Cameron promising an EU referendum. How can polls predict results when a major announcement hasnt been made yet? | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum??" You say you couldn't find a single poll which put Remain 10 points in the lead on the eve of the EU referendum? I'd say you either didn't look very hard or you don't know how to use an internet search engine. A very quick basic internet search on google will show that the last poll conducted before the EU referendum was an online survey from Populous from a pool of 4700 people carried out from June 21st to midnight on June 22nd 2016 which gave Remain a 10 point lead on 55% and Leave on 45%. I already knew this from memory though because i remember it being reported at the time and 10 points is way beyond the margin of error. In the last week of the referendum campaign Ipsos Mori poll for the Evening Standard gave Remain 52% and Leave on 48%. Political analyst Peter Kellner a former president of YouGov, predicted on the eve of the referendum result that Remain would win by 8.5%, again beyond the margin of error. You said that YouGov gave Leave the lead in a poll 4 days before referendum but on the eve of the EU referendum 22nd June 2016, YouGov had Remain in the lead (yet again your data appears to have been out of date as you selected a poll which wasn't the last YouGov poll before the referendum). In the last week of the referendum campaign a ComRes telephone poll put Remain 6 points ahead of Leave, again beyond the margin of error. The day after the result of the EU referendum The Telegraph newspaper reported that over the entire course of the EU referendum campaign a total of 168 polls were done and only 55 of those polls put Leave in the lead. This shows the vast majority of polls during the referendum campaign turned out to be wrong! | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? " Looks like i proved you wrong then. I do care about the truth, thats why i just posted the sources. See my last comment above. | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? Hmm, still no proof to back up the claims. What a surprise. Some people prefer to live in a post truth world." As i just said in my post above, sources and proof have now been posted. It appears just like _xplicitlyrics, you either didn't look very hard for the information or you just don't know how, or are unable to use a basic internet search engine. The information was very easy to find on Google. As for your throw away comment about a post truth world, that appears to apply to you if you are trying to push the narrative here that a majority of polls got it right in the EU referendum.  | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? Hmm, still no proof to back up the claims. What a surprise. Some people prefer to live in a post truth world. I don't think that the detail matters. The point is that the polls were wrong in the general election. None predicted Cameron's overall victory. None predicted Brexit. None predicted Trump. And May went to the Polls based on opinion polls that indicated that she would have a massive majority and that was wrong too. The detail does matter. He said eve of the election there were a number of major polls saying Remain was 10 points clear. It was a blatant lie. And I pointed to 4 polls that predicted a Leave win and 6 others that were within the margin of error. So saying the polls were wrong (as you just did) is incorrect. The problem is that people ignore the phrase "margin for error" which is an integral part of polling and they ignored polls which went against the perceived wisdom because everyone assumed Remain would win. For Camerons election there was a major last minute shift with Cameron promising an EU referendum. How can polls predict results when a major announcement hasnt been made yet?" Not a blatant lie, as i just posted the information to back up what i said. I find it astonishing that you were unable to find this information using a basic internet search engine, so much for remainers claims of being highly educated
As i pointed out in my post above the YouGov poll you selected with Leave in the lead, was 4 days before the referendum, the last YouGov poll released the day before the referendum put Remain in the lead, so the poll you selected was out of date as far as YouGov is concerned. As the Telegraph reported over 168 polls during the course of the referendum campaign, only 55 polls gave Leave the lead, and 113 polls gave remain the lead, this shows the vast majority of polls on the EU referendum turned out to be wrong. | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? You say you couldn't find a single poll which put Remain 10 points in the lead on the eve of the EU referendum? I'd say you either didn't look very hard or you don't know how to use an internet search engine. A very quick basic internet search on google will show that the last poll conducted before the EU referendum was an online survey from Populous from a pool of 4700 people carried out from June 21st to midnight on June 22nd 2016 which gave Remain a 10 point lead on 55% and Leave on 45%. I already knew this from memory though because i remember it being reported at the time and 10 points is way beyond the margin of error. In the last week of the referendum campaign Ipsos Mori poll for the Evening Standard gave Remain 52% and Leave on 48%. Political analyst Peter Kellner a former president of YouGov, predicted on the eve of the referendum result that Remain would win by 8.5%, again beyond the margin of error. You said that YouGov gave Leave the lead in a poll 4 days before referendum but on the eve of the EU referendum 22nd June 2016, YouGov had Remain in the lead (yet again your data appears to have been out of date as you selected a poll which wasn't the last YouGov poll before the referendum). In the last week of the referendum campaign a ComRes telephone poll put Remain 6 points ahead of Leave, again beyond the margin of error. The day after the result of the EU referendum The Telegraph newspaper reported that over the entire course of the EU referendum campaign a total of 168 polls were done and only 55 of those polls put Leave in the lead. This shows the vast majority of polls during the referendum campaign turned out to be wrong! " 1. You said more than one poll 2. Who are Populous? Theyre not a major poll and theyve no track record in national politics. They seem to be a marketing consultantcy who do some polling on the side. Thats why it doesnt turn up in searches on brexit polling. 3. Over the referendum campaign is irrelevant because thats not what you said and opinions change during the campaigns, thats why the campaigns last more than a week. So what you should have said was 1 poll from a business marketing consultancy with no track record in politics and not a major poll had a result that was a complete outlier. What the head of YouGov personally predicts isnt important because the data didnt back that and we're discussing the data. There were still 10 major polls thay had a Leave win or were within the margin of error in the days leading up to the referendum. | |||
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" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? You say you couldn't find a single poll which put Remain 10 points in the lead on the eve of the EU referendum? I'd say you either didn't look very hard or you don't know how to use an internet search engine. A very quick basic internet search on google will show that the last poll conducted before the EU referendum was an online survey from Populous from a pool of 4700 people carried out from June 21st to midnight on June 22nd 2016 which gave Remain a 10 point lead on 55% and Leave on 45%. I already knew this from memory though because i remember it being reported at the time and 10 points is way beyond the margin of error. In the last week of the referendum campaign Ipsos Mori poll for the Evening Standard gave Remain 52% and Leave on 48%. Political analyst Peter Kellner a former president of YouGov, predicted on the eve of the referendum result that Remain would win by 8.5%, again beyond the margin of error. You said that YouGov gave Leave the lead in a poll 4 days before referendum but on the eve of the EU referendum 22nd June 2016, YouGov had Remain in the lead (yet again your data appears to have been out of date as you selected a poll which wasn't the last YouGov poll before the referendum). In the last week of the referendum campaign a ComRes telephone poll put Remain 6 points ahead of Leave, again beyond the margin of error. The day after the result of the EU referendum The Telegraph newspaper reported that over the entire course of the EU referendum campaign a total of 168 polls were done and only 55 of those polls put Leave in the lead. This shows the vast majority of polls during the referendum campaign turned out to be wrong! 1. You said more than one poll 2. Who are Populous? Theyre not a major poll and theyve no track record in national politics. They seem to be a marketing consultantcy who do some polling on the side. Thats why it doesnt turn up in searches on brexit polling. 3. Over the referendum campaign is irrelevant because thats not what you said and opinions change during the campaigns, thats why the campaigns last more than a week. So what you should have said was 1 poll from a business marketing consultancy with no track record in politics and not a major poll had a result that was a complete outlier. What the head of YouGov personally predicts isnt important because the data didnt back that and we're discussing the data. There were still 10 major polls thay had a Leave win or were within the margin of error in the days leading up to the referendum." 1. I provided sources from 2 polls which were beyond the margin of error (3 if you include the former president of YouGov). You said you couldn't find a single poll which gave remain a 10 point lead, I've provided the source of the poll which did give the 10 point lead for remain on the eve of the referendum. 2. Where did I say "major poll" in my earlier posts? If you scroll up and check I never said it was a "major poll" anywhere, so don't attempt to misquote me when I never said "major poll". It appears now you've been proved wrong you're attempting to move the goal posts in typical sore loser remainer fashion. The Populous poll does show up in Brexit searches, I did a simple Google search for....'Poll on eve of EU referendum gives Remain a 10 point lead'. It came up on the first page of Google results. Like i said very simple and easy to find on any Internet search engine (that is for anyone who is able to write and read basic English). 3. Over the course of the referendum campaign is relevant because you're trying to push the narrative on here that the majority of polls called the referendum result correctly, if you look at the overall data (reported by the Telegraph) it clearly shows the majority of polls called it wrong. What I said was correct that multiple opinion polls were wrong beyond the margin of error and that Remain were given a 10 point lead on the eve of the EU referendum. | |||
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" 1. You said more than one poll 2. Who are Populous? Theyre not a major poll and theyve no track record in national politics. They seem to be a marketing consultantcy who do some polling on the side. Thats why it doesnt turn up in searches on brexit polling. 3. Over the referendum campaign is irrelevant because thats not what you said and opinions change during the campaigns, thats why the campaigns last more than a week. So what you should have said was 1 poll from a business marketing consultancy with no track record in politics and not a major poll had a result that was a complete outlier. What the head of YouGov personally predicts isnt important because the data didnt back that and we're discussing the data. There were still 10 major polls thay had a Leave win or were within the margin of error in the days leading up to the referendum. 1. I provided sources from 2 polls which were beyond the margin of error (3 if you include the former president of YouGov). You said you couldn't find a single poll which gave remain a 10 point lead, I've provided the source of the poll which did give the 10 point lead for remain on the eve of the referendum. 2. Where did I say "major poll" in my earlier posts? If you scroll up and check I never said it was a "major poll" anywhere, so don't attempt to misquote me when I never said "major poll". It appears now you've been proved wrong you're attempting to move the goal posts in typical sore loser remainer fashion. The Populous poll does show up in Brexit searches, I did a simple Google search for....'Poll on eve of EU referendum gives Remain a 10 point lead'. It came up on the first page of Google results. Like i said very simple and easy to find on any Internet search engine (that is for anyone who is able to write and read basic English). 3. Over the course of the referendum campaign is relevant because you're trying to push the narrative on here that the majority of polls called the referendum result correctly, if you look at the overall data (reported by the Telegraph) it clearly shows the majority of polls called it wrong. What I said was correct that multiple opinion polls were wrong beyond the margin of error and that Remain were given a 10 point lead on the eve of the EU referendum. " Ok, a minor poll from a market consultancy firm with no track record was wrong. That doesnt bolster your initial point that polls arent to be trusted. Part timers with no track record arent indicative of the health of the polling industry. (Or have you forgotten thats what we were talking about?) 10 major polls in the 4 days leading up to the election being correct or within the margin of error is something relevant to be taken into consideration. | |||
" On the eve of the EU referendum in the UK a number of opinion polls put Remain 10 points ahead of Leave (way beyond the margin of error) and as we all know when the ballots were counted and the REAL result was announced Leave won on 52% of the vote which made those opinion polls look ludicrously stupid. Thats funny, I cant find a single major poll on the eve of the election that has Remain 10 points clear. I do have: Opinium: day before 1% Leave TNS: Day before 2% Leave YouGov: 4 days before 2% Leave And 6 more polls within the margin of error. Do tell Centaur, who are these multiple major polls who had Leave 10% ahead on the eve of the referendum?? I would love to see them too, I doubt he can provide and sources. Who cares about the truth huh? Looks like i proved you wrong then. I do care about the truth, thats why i just posted the sources. See my last comment above. " No, you didn't, you could only provide a single poll which gave a 10 point lead. Not the multiple number of polls you claimed. | |||
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"On 28th June 2016, John Curtice of You Gov wrote a paper titled 'Brexit Reflections...how the polls got it wrong again'. How the POLLS got it WRONG....AGAIN. But apparently, according to remainers on here, some of whom pride themselves on their ability to research and their educational and academic prowess over others, the polls were spot on. A simple google search... . " 1. John is a single person with an opinion. 2. No one says the polls were spot on. My point is that some of the polls were correct or within the margin of error. Polling is an evolving science as people, technology and society change. 3. YouGov had 2 different polling methodologies in the field in the last week, one was right (4 days before the election), the other was wrong (day before). Not to mention the obvious differences between different methodologies in different companies. Saying polls cant be trusted is something someone completely ignorant of how polling works would say. Saying a particular method is wrong is fair enough. | |||
"On 28th June 2016, John Curtice of You Gov wrote a paper titled 'Brexit Reflections...how the polls got it wrong again'. How the POLLS got it WRONG....AGAIN. But apparently, according to remainers on here, some of whom pride themselves on their ability to research and their educational and academic prowess over others, the polls were spot on. A simple google search... . 1. John is a single person with an opinion. 2. No one says the polls were spot on. My point is that some of the polls were correct or within the margin of error. Polling is an evolving science as people, technology and society change. 3. YouGov had 2 different polling methodologies in the field in the last week, one was right (4 days before the election), the other was wrong (day before). Not to mention the obvious differences between different methodologies in different companies. Saying polls cant be trusted is something someone completely ignorant of how polling works would say. Saying a particular method is wrong is fair enough." 1. John, that 'single was with an opinion', is actually Sir John Curtice, FRSA, FRSE, FBA, a political scientist who is currently Professor of Politics at the University of Strathclyde and Senior Research Fellow at NatCen Social Research. He was knighted for his work in political analysis. 2. Some of the polls may have been correct or within the margin of error....70% of them weren't. You were trying to make it sound as though it was the other way round. 3. Centaur posted about the last polls before the referendum; you quoted several polls to try to prove Centaur wrong, including yougov from 4 days before, knowing full well that their last poll had remain substantially in front. From your 'saying polls can't be trusted' statement, I presume you do trust polls. I suppose also, if someone were to lie to you 70% of the time, you'd trust them too. Personally, I never take any notice of polls other than to provide me with some entertainment and a degree of amusement. | |||
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"Ok, right. Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track, JRM has been interviewed saying that he doesn't need to visit the Irish border and meet people on either side of it in order to understand the issues. Apparently you can do that from studying it and talking to the DUP MP's. Who would obviously say helpful things like "Sure it'll be grand". As long as he can fuck up people's lives without having to meet them he's fine. What a man of the people. " You mean he is afraid to meet the people who's lives he is going to fuck up
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"Ok, right. Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track, JRM has been interviewed saying that he doesn't need to visit the Irish border and meet people on either side of it in order to understand the issues. Apparently you can do that from studying it and talking to the DUP MP's. Who would obviously say helpful things like "Sure it'll be grand". As long as he can fuck up people's lives without having to meet them he's fine. What a man of the people. You mean he is afraid to meet the people who's lives he is going to fuck up
"Of course. It's also worth knowing that the DUP people he speaks to about it at Westminster, none of them have constituencies on the border. | |||
"Ok, right. Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track, JRM has been interviewed saying that he doesn't need to visit the Irish border and meet people on either side of it in order to understand the issues. Apparently you can do that from studying it and talking to the DUP MP's. Who would obviously say helpful things like "Sure it'll be grand". As long as he can fuck up people's lives without having to meet them he's fine. What a man of the people. You mean he is afraid to meet the people who's lives he is going to fuck up
Of course. It's also worth knowing that the DUP people he speaks to about it at Westminster, none of them have constituencies on the border. "The location of a constituency would be irrelevant. As we are already able to import goods from lots of countries outside the EU without any problems it is difficult to see any relevance of the Irish Border issue. A visit to Felixstowe or Southampton will illustrate that | |||
"Ok, right. Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track, JRM has been interviewed saying that he doesn't need to visit the Irish border and meet people on either side of it in order to understand the issues. Apparently you can do that from studying it and talking to the DUP MP's. Who would obviously say helpful things like "Sure it'll be grand". As long as he can fuck up people's lives without having to meet them he's fine. What a man of the people. You mean he is afraid to meet the people who's lives he is going to fuck up
Of course. It's also worth knowing that the DUP people he speaks to about it at Westminster, none of them have constituencies on the border. The location of a constituency would be irrelevant.
As we are already able to import goods from lots of countries outside the EU without any problems it is difficult to see any relevance of the Irish Border issue. A visit to Felixstowe or Southampton will illustrate that
"You have been alive in this country for the last few years haven't you? I just ask as it appears from your response above that you haven't. | |||
"Ok, right. Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track, JRM has been interviewed saying that he doesn't need to visit the Irish border and meet people on either side of it in order to understand the issues. Apparently you can do that from studying it and talking to the DUP MP's. Who would obviously say helpful things like "Sure it'll be grand". As long as he can fuck up people's lives without having to meet them he's fine. What a man of the people. You mean he is afraid to meet the people who's lives he is going to fuck up
Of course. It's also worth knowing that the DUP people he speaks to about it at Westminster, none of them have constituencies on the border. The location of a constituency would be irrelevant.
As we are already able to import goods from lots of countries outside the EU without any problems it is difficult to see any relevance of the Irish Border issue. A visit to Felixstowe or Southampton will illustrate that
You have been alive in this country for the last few years haven't you? I just ask as it appears from your response above that you haven't. "He’s on a whole different planet. Let alone country. -Matt | |||
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" The location of a constituency would be irrelevant. As we are already able to import goods from lots of countries outside the EU without any problems it is difficult to see any relevance of the Irish Border issue. A visit to Felixstowe or Southampton will illustrate that " All this illustrated is your monumental lack of knowledge in this issue. | |||
"Ok, right. Anyway, in an attempt to get back on track, JRM has been interviewed saying that he doesn't need to visit the Irish border and meet people on either side of it in order to understand the issues. Apparently you can do that from studying it and talking to the DUP MP's. Who would obviously say helpful things like "Sure it'll be grand". As long as he can fuck up people's lives without having to meet them he's fine. What a man of the people. You mean he is afraid to meet the people who's lives he is going to fuck up
Of course. It's also worth knowing that the DUP people he speaks to about it at Westminster, none of them have constituencies on the border. The location of a constituency would be irrelevant.
As we are already able to import goods from lots of countries outside the EU without any problems it is difficult to see any relevance of the Irish Border issue. A visit to Felixstowe or Southampton will illustrate that
You have been alive in this country for the last few years haven't you? I just ask as it appears from your response above that you haven't. "I am from Northern Ireland and know the border area very well. I prefer to concentrate on positives , not negatives. | |||
" UK figures on productivity are better , Yep now your doing 12 hours work in 10 , Its not increase in production,working harder for less pay , " Or maybe people are starting to do 10 hours work in 10, instead of 10 hours work in 12. | |||
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" UK figures on productivity are better , Yep now your doing 12 hours work in 10 , Its not increase in production,working harder for less pay , Or maybe people are starting to do 10 hours work in 10, instead of 10 hours work in 12." If you look at the figures growth in UK is 0.1% that's bad enough but if you look at growth on a per capita basis it's -0.1% Surely the government can see by now it's starting to go bad | |||
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"I have written to the PM today and given her a solution to her problems as I feel she needs some help on achieving her goals. As we all know and agree the border is what's screwing things up no matter which "side" of the argument (leave/remain). So my suggestion is we give up Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland is United. Ok stop - here is the rationale behind it and the solutions : A United Ireland means no need for a customs union the border is now the Irish Sea. UK has control of its borders. It can do it's trade deals and the leave campaign has achieved it's goal. The problems - "you can't please everybody all the time" - therefore the sacrificial lambs are the Unionists in NI. I don't know how many there are, but as a percentage of the UK population as a whole it will be small. 60m and if we say 2m Unionists that would equate to about 3%! So the majority rules ok? However those Unionists who are unhappy and don't want to unite can be repatriated to the Mainland. Given compensation of say £50k to settle here or anywhere of their choice? After all a recent poll said we would rather lose Scotland and Northern Ireland than lose Gibraltar so it's a solution which would be acceptable to the English. " Waste of a letter. Northern Ireland would never agree to it. Neither would the UK. You are incredibly naïve. Perhaps read some history on Northern Ireland. | |||
"I have written to the PM today and given her a solution to her problems as I feel she needs some help on achieving her goals. As we all know and agree the border is what's screwing things up no matter which "side" of the argument (leave/remain). So my suggestion is we give up Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland is United. Ok stop - here is the rationale behind it and the solutions : A United Ireland means no need for a customs union the border is now the Irish Sea. UK has control of its borders. It can do it's trade deals and the leave campaign has achieved it's goal. The problems - "you can't please everybody all the time" - therefore the sacrificial lambs are the Unionists in NI. I don't know how many there are, but as a percentage of the UK population as a whole it will be small. 60m and if we say 2m Unionists that would equate to about 3%! So the majority rules ok? However those Unionists who are unhappy and don't want to unite can be repatriated to the Mainland. Given compensation of say £50k to settle here or anywhere of their choice? After all a recent poll said we would rather lose Scotland and Northern Ireland than lose Gibraltar so it's a solution which would be acceptable to the English. " Or keep the UK together and scrap Brexit, much easier | |||
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"Brexit isn't going to be scrapped. Ireland isn't going to be reunited. You have to deal with the actual situation, not fantasy situations. " Both situations are entirely possible. | |||
"Brexit isn't going to be scrapped. Ireland isn't going to be reunited. You have to deal with the actual situation, not fantasy situations. Both situations are entirely possible." Only in your head. | |||
"I have written to the PM today and given her a solution to her problems as I feel she needs some help on achieving her goals. As we all know and agree the border is what's screwing things up no matter which "side" of the argument (leave/remain). So my suggestion is we give up Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland is United. Ok stop - here is the rationale behind it and the solutions : A United Ireland means no need for a customs union the border is now the Irish Sea. UK has control of its borders. It can do it's trade deals and the leave campaign has achieved it's goal. The problems - "you can't please everybody all the time" - therefore the sacrificial lambs are the Unionists in NI. I don't know how many there are, but as a percentage of the UK population as a whole it will be small. 60m and if we say 2m Unionists that would equate to about 3%! So the majority rules ok? However those Unionists who are unhappy and don't want to unite can be repatriated to the Mainland. Given compensation of say £50k to settle here or anywhere of their choice? After all a recent poll said we would rather lose Scotland and Northern Ireland than lose Gibraltar so it's a solution which would be acceptable to the English. Waste of a letter. Northern Ireland would never agree to it. Neither would the UK. You are incredibly naïve. Perhaps read some history on Northern Ireland." Have you ever been to both countries? Your keen to give opions but never offer solutions - wonder why? | |||
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"Yes. I have been to both countries. I thought Belfast was amazing and Southern Ireland was awful. My solution? I have quoted it on here previously: Tell the EU that there will be no hard border, because neither side want it. What are they going to do? Is Juncker going to come over with Barnier, some sand, cement and some bricks and build a wall?" | |||
"Yes. I have been to both countries. I thought Belfast was amazing and Southern Ireland was awful. My solution? I have quoted it on here previously: Tell the EU that there will be no hard border, because neither side want it. What are they going to do? Is Juncker going to come over with Barnier, some sand, cement and some bricks and build a wall?" What do you mean ‘no side want it’? One of the key point the leavers keep bleating on about is ‘taking back control’ of our borders! -Matt | |||
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"Yes. I have been to both countries. I thought Belfast was amazing and Southern Ireland was awful. My solution? I have quoted it on here previously: Tell the EU that there will be no hard border, because neither side want it. What are they going to do? Is Juncker going to come over with Barnier, some sand, cement and some bricks and build a wall?" I dont know where this idea of the EU wanting the border came from but it really shows how uninformed Brexiters are. The EU have said no border, no border checks and no construction of check points. The Tories have advocated the Canada/US border (with checkpoints, customs checks and border) the Sweden/Norway border (same situation) and their own system of border checks. Are Brexiters being wilfully ignorant here? Not to mention that hard Brexiters are the ones who keep saying to leave the EU with no deal and stick with WTO terms. WTO terms would require a border otherwise the UK would be in breach of WTO and face huge fines. The only way to avoid a border is an agreement with the EU. It also says a lot about Brexiters that theyre happy to give up Northern Ireland and Scotland for Brexit but not Gibraltar. It just shows how beligerant they are that the only part of the UK they want to put their foot down on is the one piece thats a disputed territory. If Spain didnt want Gibraltar the Brexiters would toss them aside without a seconds heaitation too. | |||
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"Yes. I have been to both countries. I thought Belfast was amazing and Southern Ireland was awful. My solution? I have quoted it on here previously: Tell the EU that there will be no hard border, because neither side want it. What are they going to do? Is Juncker going to come over with Barnier, some sand, cement and some bricks and build a wall?" What was so awful about the free states south of the border? | |||
"What makes you think that Scotland will be lost? " I dont think Scotland will be lost but the poll asked what would be acceptable to lose and Brexiters said Scotland and Northern Ireland were something they were willing to lose to get Brexit but Gibraltar wasnt. It really exposes the mentality of Brexiters that theyre willing to jettison their fellow countrymen except in the case where Spain disputes the territory. | |||
"Yes. I have been to both countries. I thought Belfast was amazing and Southern Ireland was awful. My solution? I have quoted it on here previously: Tell the EU that there will be no hard border, because neither side want it. What are they going to do? Is Juncker going to come over with Barnier, some sand, cement and some bricks and build a wall? What was so awful about the free states south of the border? " We love the Irish | |||
"Yes. I have been to both countries. I thought Belfast was amazing and Southern Ireland was awful. My solution? I have quoted it on here previously: Tell the EU that there will be no hard border, because neither side want it. What are they going to do? Is Juncker going to come over with Barnier, some sand, cement and some bricks and build a wall? What was so awful about the free states south of the border? We love the Irish "Just curious as to why the guy that posted had such a negative view of the south | |||
"Brexit isn't going to be scrapped. Ireland isn't going to be reunited. You have to deal with the actual situation, not fantasy situations. Both situations are entirely possible. Only in your head." Laughable and very ignorant answer | |||
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"I have written to the PM today and given her a solution to her problems as I feel she needs some help on achieving her goals. As we all know and agree the border is what's screwing things up no matter which "side" of the argument (leave/remain). So my suggestion is we give up Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland is United. Ok stop - here is the rationale behind it and the solutions : A United Ireland means no need for a customs union the border is now the Irish Sea. UK has control of its borders. It can do it's trade deals and the leave campaign has achieved it's goal. The problems - "you can't please everybody all the time" - therefore the sacrificial lambs are the Unionists in NI. I don't know how many there are, but as a percentage of the UK population as a whole it will be small. 60m and if we say 2m Unionists that would equate to about 3%! So the majority rules ok? However those Unionists who are unhappy and don't want to unite can be repatriated to the Mainland. Given compensation of say £50k to settle here or anywhere of their choice? After all a recent poll said we would rather lose Scotland and Northern Ireland than lose Gibraltar so it's a solution which would be acceptable to the English. " Don't be silly, the obvious solution is to annex Eire. I'm sure Putin would give us a few tips. No one would do anything, they are militarily neutral, they're not even in NATO. | |||
"What makes you think that Scotland will be lost? I dont think Scotland will be lost but the poll asked what would be acceptable to lose and Brexiters said Scotland and Northern Ireland were something they were willing to lose to get Brexit but Gibraltar wasnt. It really exposes the mentality of Brexiters that theyre willing to jettison their fellow countrymen except in the case where Spain disputes the territory." Ah the wingnuts poll. | |||
"Channel 4 did a report yesterday about the liberal wing of the Unionists are considering a United Ireland and what it would look like. One of the politicians said it was being discussed in back channels "at the very highest level". If the unionists split on this a border poll would be inevitable." It would be interesting to have the name of the politician who said that it was being discussed . As the whole point of the Unionist party is to maintain unity with the UK I cannot see any member agreeing to a United Ireland. I am assuming that channel 4 mean discussing the issue as opposed to agreeing with it. | |||
"What makes you think that Scotland will be lost? I dont think Scotland will be lost but the poll asked what would be acceptable to lose and Brexiters said Scotland and Northern Ireland were something they were willing to lose to get Brexit but Gibraltar wasnt. It really exposes the mentality of Brexiters that theyre willing to jettison their fellow countrymen except in the case where Spain disputes the territory. Ah the wingnuts poll. "They would probably rather have the Falklands than Wales, Scotland and NI! | |||
"Channel 4 did a report yesterday about the liberal wing of the Unionists are considering a United Ireland and what it would look like. One of the politicians said it was being discussed in back channels "at the very highest level". If the unionists split on this a border poll would be inevitable. It would be interesting to have the name of the politician who said that it was being discussed . As the whole point of the Unionist party is to maintain unity with the UK I cannot see any member agreeing to a United Ireland. I am assuming that channel 4 mean discussing the issue as opposed to agreeing with it. " The video is on youtube and is titled: A United Ireland? Some Northern Ireland Unionist figures 'ready to talk' unification Or if that search doesnt turn it up you can find it on the channel 4 youtube page. The former head of the farmers union in Northern Ireland and a unionist politician are the 2 most prominent in the video. Theyre basically looking at it from a very pragmatic point of view in that they may not like the option of reunification but if its a better situation than what the UK is giving them they'll seriously consider it. Personally I think that if it does go that way it should be a half measure where the 6 counties are a semi autonomous region within the Republic, much as they are within Britain. I think that would allay many of the fears within the unionist community. | |||
